IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 7 September 2009 (all times are UTC)
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| 03:55 | <ftherese> Would anyone know why the desktop shortcuts for localapps might be broken? They were working fine, and then I installed the locales and they don't work anymore
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| 03:56 | are there certain files I should be checking?
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| 03:58 | <ftherese> actually the only ones that broke were the wine ones...
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| 04:01 | but they worked before I installed the language packs on the chroot
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| 05:29 | <ogra> \o/
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| 05:29 | my flight and rental car to BTS are booked :)
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| 08:12 | <alkisg> ogra, ogra_, any news on when will arm netbooks be available to consumers?
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| 08:13 | About 120.000 Greek students are going to be given a netbook this year...
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| 08:14 | <ogra> no, probably around christmas
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| 08:14 | <alkisg> Ah too late :( :(
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| 08:14 | I think the program finishes at the end of November
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| 08:15 | <ogra> with luck you might see the first ones in november ... in small quantities and only available in asia for the start
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| 08:16 | <alkisg> Got it... :( thanks!
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| 08:18 | <ogra> i know about one very big manufacturer who plans to ship them in big amounts, but i have no idea when
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| 08:20 | <ogra> grr
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| 08:20 | i know about one very big manufacturer who plans to ship them in big amounts, but i have no idea when
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| 08:21 | <alkisg> Unfortunately it'll be too late, they're planning to use the netbooks this school year
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| 08:21 | <nubae> alkisg: oh really... Greece too eh?
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| 08:22 | <alkisg> nubae: yup, and fortunately the specs say the netbooks have to be dual boot with ubuntu
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| 08:22 | <nubae> alkisg: I can give u all the info on what netbooks are hitting the Spanish markets
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| 08:22 | <ogra> yes, that manufacturer likely wont have anything shippable before next year
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| 08:22 | <alkisg> I hope we can use them next year, with ubuntu only
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| 08:22 | <ogra> but they are big enough to offer them worldwide (amd to my knowledge they plan to in really large amounts)
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| 08:22 | *and
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| 08:22 | <alkisg> I've published all the necessary edu* packages to a repo, so the software isn't a problem
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| 08:23 | <nubae> wonder if that will prompt canonical to see some market potential in the edu sector again...
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| 08:23 | <ogra> canonical does a lot in the edu sector
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| 08:24 | <alkisg> ogra, is there any flash available for arm? (in a working state?)
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| 08:24 | <ogra> yes
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| 08:24 | <nubae> :-) You know what I mean...
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| 08:24 | <ogra> but not freely distributable
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| 08:24 | <alkisg> Nice, as most edu apps here are based on flash
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| 08:24 | No problem, they can install the flashplugin or whatever it's called manually, I imagine...
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| 08:24 | <ogra> nubae, canonical does about 5-10 times times as much in edu today than it did when i was working on edubuntu
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| 08:25 | its just less visible and way way bigger projects
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| 08:25 | alkisg, no, i mean not downloadable at all
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| 08:25 | <nubae> then it does a very bad job of advertising that, because at least to the edu distros I'm involved with, the thoughts are they ignore that market
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| 08:25 | <alkisg> Ah. So we need to contact adobe to get it?
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| 08:25 | Or canonical?
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| 08:25 | <ogra> alkisg, adobe requires the manufacutrers to make contracts etc
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| 08:26 | <nubae> i guess if its oem stuff, we won't hear about it
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| 08:26 | <ogra> not canonical ... but the OEMs
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| 08:26 | <alkisg> Got it.
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| 08:26 | <ogra> it will be preinstalled on all netbooks that ship with ubuntu
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| 08:26 | but you wont be able to install it yourself
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| 08:26 | because you cant download it
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| 08:27 | <nubae> wow cripleware... sounds a lot like windows
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| 08:27 | <ogra> nubae, complain at adobe
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| 08:27 | i dont make the licenses
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| 08:28 | <nubae> sadly, I dont think they care for my complaints :-(
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| 08:28 | <ogra> and canonical has no influence on that
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| 08:29 | <nubae> is gnash progressing at all?
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| 08:29 | i mean is it a viable alternative?
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| 08:29 | <ogra> as long as you have things like the iphone and big companies like apple paying millions for flash on arm i doubt adobe will even remotely think about giving it away for free
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| 08:30 | gnash is so so ...
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| 08:30 | and they are broke atm
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| 08:30 | <nubae> its actually worse than microsoft... its a true abuse of power
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| 08:30 | <ogra> so development is very slow
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| 08:30 | <alkisg> Ah right, gnash may work on some flash edu apps too
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| 08:31 | <ogra> make donations to speed it up ;)
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| 08:31 | there is also swfdec ...
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| 08:32 | <nubae> well it would be an idea for some of the bigger edu distros... thats kinda what happened with crossover/wine
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| 08:32 | <ogra> ??
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| 08:32 | <nubae> not edu backed though
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| 08:32 | * ogra wonders what you mean | |
| 08:32 | <nubae> most backing came from hollywood studios
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| 08:33 | <ogra> crossover is a commercial development on top of the free wine
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| 08:33 | it always was
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| 08:33 | <nubae> who needed things like photoshop
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| 08:33 | yeah i know
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| 08:33 | but it funds wine development big time
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| 08:33 | <ogra> and they always had the philosophy to develop stuff in crossover first, make money out of it and only then ship the code back into wine
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| 08:34 | i dont think thats comparable
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| 08:34 | <nubae> I heard that the code was pretty much identical, that wine in crossover = regular wine
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| 08:34 | <ogra> right
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| 08:34 | <nubae> then?
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| 08:34 | <ogra> plus the added up code you get in a new crossover version
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| 08:34 | that will only show up in the next wine version
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| 08:35 | its synced back into wine, but with a delay where they earn money out of it
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| 08:35 | <nubae> I was not aware of a delay, but it makes sense
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| 08:35 | <ogra> its a clever business model
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| 08:36 | and they do it like that since day one i think
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| 10:04 | <garymc> hi i need some help/advice
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| 10:05 | I listen to audio through Movieplayer over the LTSP server Ubuntu on my thin clinet. It works a couple of times then just plays silence? anyone know why this is
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| 10:05 | To get it to work again i have to shut down my thin client and start it up again
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| 10:05 | works ok for a little while then silence
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| 10:56 | <garymc> Ogra: would you know why my Sound players only work a couple of times then stop working until I reboot my thin client. LTSP Ubuntu 9.04
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| 11:09 | <planxa> garymc: Is your ubuntu 9.04 the desktop version or server ?
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| 11:13 | <garymc> I think it is server?
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| 11:14 | LTSP Alternate disk was used
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| 11:14 | <stgraber> ogra: yeah, will be good to see you at BTS
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| 11:14 | <planxa> ok
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| 11:19 | <SeaweedStardom> win 15
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| 11:23 | <planxa> can operate in jaunty ltsp 9.04 Desktop?
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| 11:43 | <garymc> it operates but its not that good.
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| 11:43 | I loginto the server with a thin clinet
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| 11:43 | lient*
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| 11:43 | C
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| 11:43 | it could be my thin client?
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| 11:57 | <stgraber> vagrantc: I pushed a new ltsp and ldm in Ubuntu yesterday, ldm including your packaging changes.
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| 11:58 | vagrantc: just wondering, what kind of delta do we have between debian and ubuntu for ltsp itself ?
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| 11:59 | <vagrantc> stgraber: the ltsp delta is getting a little ugly
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| 11:59 | the changelog is of course really messy
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| 11:59 | but there's a lot of other diffs too
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| 11:59 | <johnny> stgraber, vagrantc what can we rely on to give a generalized system report format to make it easier to notice issues without lots of questions
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| 11:59 | i know fedora has smolt.. and ubuntu has something
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| 11:59 | but we also need info from changelog
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| 11:59 | would be nice to just say.. run this command
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| 12:00 | and it automatically pastes it to the ltsp pastebin
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| 12:00 | optionally anyways
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| 12:00 | distro, chroot distro, pulse version, arch, that kinda thing
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| 12:01 | <stgraber> vagrantc: I recently got rid of all the init scripts hack in Ubuntu and some additional initramfs-scripts I had, should be a bit cleaner now, though I suspect you are using dh7 in Debian ?
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| 12:01 | <vagrantc> stgraber: yeah, switched to dh7
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| 12:01 | <stgraber> johnny: to debug from the server or on the thin client itself ?
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| 12:02 | <vagrantc> stgraber: it's been on my todo list to make a sync branch for ltsp as well that you could hopefully merge without too much distruption
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| 12:02 | <johnny> stgraber, no.. just to provde info to us people who are trying to help people
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| 12:02 | like alsa has that one script
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| 12:02 | that generates a report with driver version, driver, etc..
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| 12:02 | so they don't have to ask same question every single time
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| 12:02 | and in gentoo.. bug reports almost always require the output of "emerge info"
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| 12:03 | <stgraber> vagrantc: well, at least we are using similar packaging for ldm and ltspfs, that's a start :)
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| 12:03 | <vagrantc> stgraber: right
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| 12:03 | <stgraber> johnny: dpkg -l would probably provide the same kind of information
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| 12:03 | johnny: (list of all packages and versions)
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| 12:03 | <johnny> stgraber, sure.. but it must work on other system
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| 12:03 | stgraber, but also distro..
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| 12:03 | so it needs to do lsb-release too.. plus.. it needs to work on every distro.. so needs plugins
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| 12:03 | <vagrantc> stgraber: i don't know what's considered best practice for weather or not it makes sense to merge changelog entries...
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| 12:04 | <stgraber> right, I doubt we can find a tool that'd work on all distro
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| 12:04 | <johnny> stgraber, we wrap it
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| 12:04 | <vagrantc> stgraber: but that would sure shrink the diff
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| 12:04 | <johnny> just like everyrthing else.. same info is always available on all distro on some fashion
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| 12:05 | <stgraber> vagrantc: I'm not sure what would happen on LP if changelog entries disappear as we have a full history of all package builds, and binary packages on it :)
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| 12:05 | <vagrantc> stgraber: well, ltspfs was synced, and i don't think it contains the old changelog entries?
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| 12:06 | <stgraber> johnny: that might just be a few changes to ltsp-build-client to generate a log file that one could attach to bug reports
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| 12:06 | <vagrantc> stgraber: in the past, we just merged all the changelog entries from ubuntu and debian together, so we'd have the changelog entries from both distros in the same file ...
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| 12:06 | <johnny> stgraber, should be a seperate command
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| 12:06 | so people don't have to run command every time
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| 12:06 | err try to build
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| 12:06 | ltsp-<tab> should show it
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| 12:06 | <vagrantc> "i upgraded, and it stopped working" would necessitate a different command
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| 12:08 | <stgraber> vagrantc: I guess we do it two different ways in Ubuntu, some get a diff from debian, ignore the changelog and merge the rest (listing the changes in the changelog entry). Some others simply drop the Ubuntu changelog, take the debian packaging and add an ubuntu entry on top of that for the ubuntu-specific changes
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| 12:09 | I tend to do the former so I can keep the whole Ubuntu history but still show what I merged from Debian but that makes automatic merging (like branch merging with bzr) a bit harder
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| 12:10 | though, it's usually a bzr merge, bzr revert on debian/changelog and bzr resolve on debian/changelog (so merging everything but keeping debian/changelog and ignoring the conflicts on that file)
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| 12:10 | <vagrantc> sure
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| 12:10 | <stgraber> then look at what changed in Debian and add that in the next changelog entry ("Merged packaging changes from Debian:", bullet-point list)
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| 12:11 | <vagrantc> stgraber: i'm kind of thinking of switching back to having the upstream and debian dir in one source repository... a repository branched off of upstream that never gets merged into upstream.
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| 12:11 | stgraber: and just merge new upstream versions into it and such
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| 12:13 | <stgraber> well, I'm not sure what would be the benifit ? not having to copy debian/ from a separate branch into the uncompressed .orig.tar.gz ?
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| 12:14 | *benefit
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| 12:14 | <vagrantc> stgraber: yeah, pretty much.
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| 12:16 | stgraber: and you maintain your branch as a debian sub-dir, whereas i maintain it as a top-level dir. :)
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| 12:16 | stgraber: not a big deal, since they're not mergeable
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| 12:18 | <vagrantc> stgraber: heh. i just uploaded ldm 2.0.45 with the fatclient patches applied
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| 12:19 | <stgraber> I did ldm-2.0.46 to avoid patching 2.0.45 :)
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| 12:19 | <NeonLicht> Hey vagrantc!
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| 12:19 | Is it possible to select "fat client" from LDM or something like that now?
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| 12:20 | <stgraber> no but if you have a whole desktop installed in your chroot, you can set LTSP_FATCLIENT=true in your lts.conf
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| 12:20 | <NeonLicht> stgraber: and that's all needed to run fat clients?
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| 12:20 | <stgraber> well, as long as you have a desktop installed in your chroot, yes
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| 12:20 | <NeonLicht> Really cool :)
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| 12:21 | I have thin clients powerful enought to put some weight on :)
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| 12:57 | <nubae> stgraber, what takes care of sound, printer support, etc?
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| 12:58 | <vagrantc> NeonLicht: yeah, there's surely some problems to work out, but it's really a simple patch to ldm to get most of the fatclient features
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| 12:59 | nubae: sound should be the same as remote, only less network latency, since it's local
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| 13:00 | not sure about printers ... localdevs need some work to get properly functional.
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| 13:00 | <nubae> I had to run a local pulse server for sound, and reroute cups locally, they are trivial pieces of code really though
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| 13:01 | I'd imagine local apps already has it implemented so strgraber probably has it integrated when building the fat client
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| 13:04 | <stgraber> I run with the exact same environment as localapps
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| 13:05 | anything that works with localapps will work with fatclient
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| 13:07 | <vagrantc> in fact, LTSP_FATCLIENT assumes LOCAL_APPS=true
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| 13:07 | it'll break if LOCAL_APPS=false
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| 13:07 | namely, the home directory via sshfs
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| 13:09 | <nubae> ah cool, I can't remember if local printing was ever implemented in local apps?
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| 13:09 | I guess it was
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| 13:22 | <stgraber> vagrantc: indeed
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| 13:37 | <NeonLicht> great, vagrantc, it sounds really good!
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| 13:38 | <vagrantc> all that time i spend at debconf messing around with "nodm" seems foolish now :)
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| 13:38 | although, i bet nodm still starts faster if you just use it for autologin and such
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| 14:21 | <alkisg> Is ltsp accepting donations somehow?
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| 14:27 | <vagrantc> i don't know that there is a non-profit or charitable organization for ltsp.
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| 14:30 | <alkisg> :( some guy I helped asked on where to send a donation, and I thought about ltsp...
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| 14:31 | <johnny> isn't there some umbrella organization that will help with that?
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| 15:27 | <zamba> i see a message on the mailing list where someone has been using local apps.. is it possible to do this per machine?
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| 15:27 | but you still include the binaries in the image?
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| 15:30 | makghosh has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:32 | <johnny> sure.. you can disable local apps per machine
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| 15:32 | via lts.conf
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| 15:32 | but the image will contain all the binaries
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| 15:33 | otherwise yo'ud need to do a seperate chroot for each.. and that is probably not worth the hassle
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| 15:57 | <nubae> hey johnny, did u take a look at my app?
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| 15:57 | I wanted to pick u're brain about the xmpp parts
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| 15:57 | as u are the best xmpp expert I know
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| 15:58 | I'm not sure to what extent u have coded xmpp for collaboration into apps
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| 15:58 | <johnny> not at all
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| 15:58 | <nubae> but I have a methodology that explains what I want to do...
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| 15:58 | <johnny> the best place for advice would be jdev@conference.jabber.org
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| 15:58 | i'm in there as well
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| 15:58 | <nubae> I'll paste it to u privately... just give me u're thoughts
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| 15:59 | oh, I'll join that
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| 17:09 | <moldy> ogra: ping :)
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| 17:47 | <petre> is X4_MODULE_01 still a valid parameter in lts.conf for ltsp 5?
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| 17:49 | <vagrantc> !docs
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| 17:49 | <ltspbot> vagrantc: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 17:51 | <vagrantc> petre: i think it's just X_MODULE_nn now
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| 17:58 | <petre> vagrantc, ok, tx. BTW, are you still in Portland these days?
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| 17:59 | <vagrantc> petre: yeah, where you at?
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| 17:59 | <petre> Minneapolis.
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| 18:00 | I saw the notice about LTSP by the Sea on the website.
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| 18:00 | I can't afford to go this year, no time off nor money.
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| 18:00 | <vagrantc> yeah, similar here. if it were nearer portland, oregon, i'd have a chance :)
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| 18:01 | <petre> But by next spring (April) I should be able to swing a trip out west, so I was thinking of trying to get jammcq et al to do something, say, around Linux Fest NW.
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| 18:01 | <vagrantc> just the wrong sea for me
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| 18:01 | <petre> How far are you from Seattle?
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| 18:01 | <vagrantc> it's 3-5 hours by car, depending on traffic
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| 18:02 | * vagrantc would likely take the train, if the chance presented itself | |
| 18:03 | <vagrantc> petre: if you do make it to portland, be sure to check out freegeek :)
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| 18:03 | <petre> vagrantc, oh definitely
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| 18:04 | brb
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| 18:26 | <petre> vagrantc, didn't you host some sort of ltsp hackfest at freegeek a year or two ago?
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| 18:34 | <vagrantc> petre: yeah, i think it was july or august 2008
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| 18:34 | petre: i'd be happy to host something similar again, if people were interested
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| 18:36 | <petre> well, *I'm* interested, but I don't carry much weight ;-)
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| 18:37 | I was thinking about it because Robert Arkiletian, author of fl_teachertool, who I'm working with ATM to get fl_tt working w/ltsp 5, lives in vancouver
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| 18:37 | Maine is too far/expensive for him.
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| 18:37 | <vagrantc> petre: vancouver, wa?
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| 18:37 | <petre> vancouver, BC
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| 18:37 | Canadian
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| 18:38 | <vagrantc> got it
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| 18:38 | there's a freegeek up there too
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| 18:38 | think they're an LTSP shop
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| 18:39 | * vagrantc needs to disappear soon | |
| 18:39 | <petre> ooh, perhaps there should be an ltsp hackfest there; why should the US get all the fun. ;-)
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| 18:42 | * vagrantc waves | |
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| 19:09 | <stgraber> petre: yeah, would be nive to avoid having to go through immigration for once ;)
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| 19:09 | not that I don't like US customs :)
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| 19:13 | <petre> stgraber, My passport is valid for another year; just got back from Denmark.
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| 19:14 | <petre> There are enough Canadians involved with ltsp that it seems we should have a conference there sometime.
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| 19:14 | <stgraber> mine is ok for 3 more years, then renewed for 10 more, though I still have to fill some paperwork everytime I enter the US ...
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| 19:14 | <petre> Actually, I think there was one courtesy of Ubuntu (in Montreal?)
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| 19:14 | a few years ago.
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| 19:15 | <stgraber> yeah, during the Ubuntu developer summit
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| 19:16 | we could organize something at sbalneav's, that's pretty much in the middle :)
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| 19:17 | <petre> stgraber, you're close enough to Maine that you can drive there; but I think it's been a couple of years since there was something on the west coast, so maybe there should be a hackfest in western Canada
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| 19:19 | <stgraber> sure, I actually liked the idea of having two hackfests a year, makes things go a bit faster I believe
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