IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 4 August 2011 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:55 | <Damianos> italc is still not working here
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| 09:10 | <johnkershaw_> hi
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| 09:12 | I got given 12 PCs for our primary dept to set up as an ltsp network
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| 09:12 | machines are in, ethernet & power plumbed in
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| 09:12 | I've installed edubuntu + ltsp 4 times on the 'master', 2 hours apiece. doesn't work. sad
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| 09:12 | and tired
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| 09:13 | came home from school at 2.30am - that's a personal 'best' :(
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| 09:22 | <johnkershaw_> hi
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| 09:22 | where can I find someone local to me with ltsp know-how?
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| 09:25 | <Hyperbyte> Hey John :)
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| 09:25 | I'd start with asking for specific help in this channel.
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| 09:26 | You can get a lot of resources from the people here, it's how I learned most about LTSP.
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| 09:26 | Most people in here are afk or busy very often though, so you need to have lots of patience. :)
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| 09:27 | My personal 'best' when I deployed LTSP was leaving work at 3 AM, by the way. ;-)
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| 09:27 | What's your problem, concretely? You say "it doesn't work", which is no doubt an accurate description, but doesn't give much insight. :)
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| 09:28 | How far did you come? What did you expect to happen? What happens instead? :-)
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| 09:43 | <johnkershaw_> hi
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| 09:44 | sorry
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| 09:45 | during the ltsp install, the machine CAN see the internet. after's it finished installing (2hours) it reboots... and CAN'T see the internet any more
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| 09:45 | 'highvoltage' tried to help me last night, editing /etc/network/interfaces to switch it from static to dhcp
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| 09:45 | which *seemed* to work, but then reverted behaviour
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| 09:46 | the client machines get an IP address from the master fine, and they get to the 'edubuntu' splash screen with the red/green loading dots... but no further
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| 09:47 | I'm wondering if there's someone local I can get to come and have a look at it. I'm sure it's a five minute job for someone who knows what they're doing
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| 09:47 | how would I find such a person?
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| 09:55 | <Hyperbyte> You could pay someone in this channel to do it probably, but take my advice and just do it yourself with our help.
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| 09:55 | You'll learn lots from it, and you'll be able to troubleshoot it later if needed, or if somehow you need to set up another LTSP or reinstal.
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| 09:55 | +l
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| 09:56 | First of all, which Edubuntu version are you using?
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| 10:00 | <johnkershaw_> 11.04
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| 10:01 | <Hyperbyte> Good.
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| 10:01 | <johnkershaw_> (I'm really sure it's a 5 minute fix. I know I could just manually install from the DVD on all the machines, but that feels so backward)
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| 10:01 | crazy thing is, the very first time I installed it, the client booted from the master
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| 10:01 | <Hyperbyte> You're trying to run fat clients?
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| 10:01 | <johnkershaw_> yes
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| 10:02 | <Hyperbyte> Ah
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| 10:02 | <johnkershaw_> but since then it never has
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| 10:02 | so I KNOW it works - I've seen the promised land!
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| 10:02 | <Hyperbyte> Hahah
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| 10:03 | Well to be honest I don't have much experience with fat clients
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| 10:03 | <johnkershaw_> does it make much difference?
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| 10:03 | <Hyperbyte> But for thin clients, if you edit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 10:03 | And remove 'quiet splash', it doesn't show the splash screen and shows boot messages. So you can actually see errors and find out where it hangs.
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| 10:04 | <johnkershaw_> ah - useful
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| 10:04 | <Hyperbyte> Not sure if it's the same for fat clients, but try it. :)
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| 10:04 | <johnkershaw_> (after highvoltage's eth0:1 changes the clients got IP addresses then got stuck at TFTP.... which they hadn't before)
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| 10:05 | <Hyperbyte> Network configuration is a different story
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| 10:05 | <johnkershaw_> I'm not at school now - will be in later
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| 10:05 | <Hyperbyte> Well, get in touch when you're in
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| 10:05 | :)
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| 10:05 | I'm at work, so I can't give you 100% attention for hours, but we can certainly walk through a few things...
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| 10:05 | <johnkershaw_> it's 11am UK time now, I'll be at school from about 3.30pm to 5pm
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| 10:06 | <Hyperbyte> Ah
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| 10:06 | <johnkershaw_> 4.5-6 hours from now
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| 10:06 | will you have left work by then?
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| 10:06 | <Hyperbyte> My official workday stops in 5 hours
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| 10:06 | <johnkershaw_> okay :(
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| 10:06 | <Hyperbyte> So I'll have some time for you
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| 10:06 | <johnkershaw_> ah!
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| 10:07 | <Hyperbyte> I wouldn't help helping you after work by the way - problem is, I have some work planned in our server room.
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| 10:07 | <johnkershaw_> are you all 'interchangeable' on here? equally skilled, etc? or is my problem so basic that anyone will be fine to fix it ?
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| 10:07 | I'm convinced it's a simple fix
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| 10:07 | <Hyperbyte> The kind of work where I unplug our main network server, so no chance of IRC'ing.. plus I'll be too busy anyways. =)
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| 10:07 | <johnkershaw_> righty
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| 10:07 | <Hyperbyte> No, I'm probably the least skilled person in here when it comes to fat clients. :P
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| 10:07 | <johnkershaw_> well, school doesn't start til september - as long as I have it all working by then it'll be fine
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| 10:07 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg is your man, he might be around later, but that'll be well after you left school.
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| 10:08 | Still, we can just start debugging a little, see where it leads us. :)
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| 10:08 | <johnkershaw_> just good to have found SOMEWHERE I can ask! I've got lots of computer experience, going back 25 years on PCs & Macs, but very little on linux
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| 10:09 | <Hyperbyte> Linux is -awesome-
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| 10:09 | <johnkershaw_> but very close to the metal :/
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| 10:09 | <Hyperbyte> I've been using Linux for the past ten years or so.
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| 10:09 | <johnkershaw_> mac spoils you. it really does 'just work'
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| 10:09 | <Hyperbyte> Well, closer, yeah. :)
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| 10:10 | <johnkershaw_> I've done lots of web coding, php, xslt, stuff like that. but it doesn't equip me for network troubleshooting
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| 10:10 | but I'm not dumb :)
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| 10:10 | just... inexperienced
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| 10:10 | <Hyperbyte> Well then Linux should be easy for you. :) Just have to get into it a little bit.
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| 10:11 | <johnkershaw_> anyway, I'll go get on with today and see you (or one of the others!) later. thanks :)
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| 10:11 | <Hyperbyte> Sure! :)
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| 10:14 | <johnkershaw_> aha - got into irc using adium client
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| 10:15 | now it'll speak messages and I won't miss them!
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| 10:18 | test
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| 10:23 | test
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| 10:23 | <johnkershaw_> okay - NOW it'll speak messages :)
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| 10:25 | <Hyperbyte> Speak messages? :)
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| 10:25 | <johnkershaw> you just did!
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| 10:25 | means I can be across the other side of the room and not miss your message :)
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| 10:26 | <Hyperbyte> Ah, thought you might be visually impaired or something. :)
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| 10:26 | <johnkershaw> would be dangerous with the number of ethernet cables strewn around the primary classroom!
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| 10:27 | <Hyperbyte> :o!
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| 10:27 | I'm gonna get some lunch. :)
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| 10:27 | <johnkershaw> I'm gonna get dressed ;)
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| 10:27 | see you later, hopefully
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| 11:21 | * ogra_ wonders about teachers running around undressed in classrooms full of ethernet cables | |
| 11:22 | <johnkershaw> lol - I'm at home right now! was in the classroom til 2.30am trying to get ltsp running, so am still in my dressing gown
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| 11:22 | <ogra_> heh
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| 13:00 | <Hyperbyte> ogra_: disturbing picture.
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| 15:06 | <Hyperbyte> Hey John :)
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| 15:07 | More luck now?
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| 16:03 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: you got the new server up and running?
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| 16:05 | <Hyperbyte> Moment surpreme!
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| 16:05 | You caught at the right time
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| 16:05 | I just switched harddisks, enabled it's MAC on the local network
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| 16:05 | Booting... now!
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| 16:05 | :o!
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| 16:05 | <alkisg> ;)
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| 16:06 | <Damianos> Hi guys
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| 16:06 | <alkisg> Hi Damianos
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| 16:07 | <Hyperbyte> Big fail!
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| 16:07 | <alkisg> :(
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| 16:07 | <Hyperbyte> Couldn't even get a root login!
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| 16:07 | <alkisg> Error messages?
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| 16:07 | <Hyperbyte> DHCPD was still configured on the old mac address, so it gave it a random IP address, thus no access to NIS. :)
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| 16:08 | <Damianos> aklisg: I tried to reinstall italc like you suggested and upon reinstall it still won't launch. I even went as far as doing a locate italc and deleting everything one by one
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| 16:09 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, where do I disable quiet splash for normal Edubuntu boot?
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| 16:09 | (not the client, but the host os)
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| 16:10 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: press e on grub
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| 16:10 | Or do you need that permanately?
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| 16:11 | <Hyperbyte> Permanent
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| 16:11 | <alkisg> For permanent change, /etc/default/grub, and update-grub
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| 16:11 | <Hyperbyte> =)
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| 16:11 | <alkisg> Damianos: I don't have much time/battery to help you step by step (and I don't have much patience for italc, it's too broken for my taste), but I could help you with reverse vnc for a couple of minutes if you want
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| 16:12 | Ah, no, I don't have access to the router, so no reverse vnc
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| 16:12 | (I'm in some rented rooms for vacations)
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| 16:13 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, one more - how do I see the startup messages after boot?
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| 16:13 | <alkisg> dmesg?
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| 16:13 | <Hyperbyte> Because even 'quiet splash' didn't make the visible.
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| 16:13 | Nah, you told me recently
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| 16:14 | The [ok] [ok] [ok] bit
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| 16:14 | <alkisg> cat /dev/vcs7 ?
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| 16:14 | <Hyperbyte> cat /proc or /var...ah
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| 16:14 | Yes!
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| 16:14 | <alkisg> Erm the what?
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| 16:15 | <Hyperbyte> Heh
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| 16:15 | There's no /dev/vcs7
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| 16:15 | <alkisg> That's on the server? With 11.04?
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| 16:15 | <Hyperbyte> Yeah
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| 16:16 | It goes up to 6.
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| 16:16 | <alkisg> And your X is on vt7?
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| 16:16 | <Hyperbyte> eh, yeah apparently
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| 16:16 | Ctrl+Alt+F7 brings up GDM
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| 16:17 | <alkisg> And you got up to where? X started but no gdm?
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| 16:18 | <Hyperbyte> Sure, it works, boots all the way
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| 16:18 | I just wanna see startup messages
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| 16:18 | After GRUB the screen is blank
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| 16:18 | As in, nothing. Not even a cursor.
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| 16:18 | When GDM fires it's okay again
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| 16:19 | I just wanna know what happened in between. =)
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| 16:19 | <alkisg> cat /proc/cmdline
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| 16:19 | What do you have there?
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| 16:19 | <Hyperbyte> Moment... it's still booting, (I think)
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| 16:20 | Yeah, there it is... takes waaaay too long.
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| 16:20 | It says quiet splash there. :o
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| 16:20 | On /proc/cmdline
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| 16:20 | But that's gone from /etc/default/grub
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| 16:20 | <alkisg> Did you run update-grub?
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| 16:21 | <Hyperbyte> No
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| 16:21 | <alkisg> (07:11:05 μμ) alkisg: For permanent change, /etc/default/grub, and update-grub
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| 16:21 | <Hyperbyte> Oh
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| 16:21 | Sorry I'm a bit hyper. :D
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| 16:21 | <alkisg> It's the anxiety from the new server :D
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| 16:21 | <Hyperbyte> Yeah!
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| 16:21 | It's a beast!@
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| 16:21 | I think it's even working already, but haven't tried a thin client yet... I wanna see my boot messages. :(
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| 16:23 | <Hyperbyte> Still blank screen after this.
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| 16:24 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: and cat /proc/cmdline now?
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| 16:25 | <Hyperbyte> No quiet splash
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| 16:25 | And /dev/vcs7 has appeared. :-)
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| 16:25 | <alkisg> Damianos: let's continue here. So, reboot any thin clients so that the updated ltsp image is used. Logon as the "teacher" somewhere, and with another user account somewhere else
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| 16:25 | <Hyperbyte> Error mounting /home2!
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| 16:26 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: nfs?
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| 16:26 | <Hyperbyte> I think we forgot something from our last experiment. :D
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| 16:26 | <alkisg> Aaaah yeah :D
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| 16:27 | <Hyperbyte> I get a lot of "Failed to resolve server 192.168.100.1"
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| 16:28 | Seems like a DNS problem, however, DNS works now and it resolves too.
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| 16:28 | Could it be that NetworkManager doesn't set /etc/resolv.conf properly until after it mounts?
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| 16:28 | Unlikely hm?
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| 16:28 | <alkisg> Maybe it's talking about reverse dns?
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| 16:28 | It's weird that it states an ip there
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| 16:28 | <Damianos> it's working
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| 16:29 | <Hyperbyte> Maybe it just doesn't have network during boot somehow?
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| 16:29 | <alkisg> Damianos: nice. Remember, this way you won't be able to control the students *before* they login
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| 16:29 | <Damianos> my final hurdle is getting dhcp to start. I have to manually start it on boot
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| 16:29 | <alkisg> With the other way, to install italc-client in the chroot too, you'd be able to control them before login, but it's more difficult
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| 16:30 | <Damianos> gotcha
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| 16:30 | <Hyperbyte> You know it shows -nothing-... BIOS is done, screen completely blanks (stays on, but blank).... and then a bit later GDM appears.
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| 16:32 | <alkisg> Damianos: that's probably because dhcpd is trying to start before your network is up
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| 16:32 | <Hyperbyte> I think the same is happening here, but with NFS mounts.
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| 16:33 | <alkisg> Damianos: from your /var/log/daemon.log: Aug 3 21:25:52 Edubuntu dhcpd: No subnet declaration for eth0 (0.0.0.0).
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| 16:33 | <Damianos> ah right...I remember reading something about doing a delayed start
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| 16:33 | I just can't remember which file to edit
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| 16:33 | <alkisg> So maybe you should put a static address in /etc/network/interfaces, instead of network manager
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| 16:33 | Btw you also had a typo in that file, "audo" instead of "auto", I've fixed it
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| 16:33 | Out of battery, good luck all, later....
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| 16:33 | <Damianos> thanks again aklisg
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| 16:34 | *alkisg
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| 16:34 | '
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| 16:35 | <johnkershaw> hyper - your issues sound a little like mine - could they be related? should I try an older build of edubuntu? quite fancied all the new packages though… :(
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| 16:35 | <Hyperbyte> johnkershaw, I thought your clients didn't boot properly?
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| 16:35 | <johnkershaw> true
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| 16:36 | <Hyperbyte> I'm having a problem with my server. Just moved my server to new hardware today... as in, take harddisk out of one server, insert into another... press boot.
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| 16:36 | Plug & pray, basically.
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| 16:36 | <johnkershaw> :)
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| 16:36 | <Hyperbyte> Apparently I didn't pray hard enough.
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| 16:40 | <johnkershaw> dunno - I find praying works surprisingly well a lot of the time
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| 16:40 | my ethernet installer guy was saying last night
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| 16:41 | he was working on a REALLY old computerised weaving system a couple of weeks ago
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| 16:41 | built in 1982, still running
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| 16:41 | DOS
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| 16:41 | hub of the business
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| 16:41 | it died
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| 16:41 | and they needed to do some work on it, but the keyboard connector was an old DIN-type
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| 16:42 | he was wondering where on earth he'd find a match
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| 16:42 | he looked in his toolbox… and found a PS/2 to DIN adaptor!
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| 16:42 | very cool
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| 16:43 | <Hyperbyte> =)
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| 16:44 | So are you fiddling with your thin clients now?
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| 16:44 | Because you should try
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| 16:44 | !quiet-splash | echo johnkershaw
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| 16:44 | <ltsp> johnkershaw quiet-splash: to disable the splash screen in Ubuntu, in order to see any boot error messages, run `sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default` and remove quiet splash ..
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| 16:45 | <johnkershaw> no - I was going to go in to see a guy about fitting some ceiling-mounted projectors, but he's had to postpone
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| 16:45 | after the half-nighter yesterday I couldn't face going in without a good reason!
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| 16:46 | I'll leave it now til I get back from my holiday
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| 16:46 | just knowing that there's SOMEONE I can talk to make all the difference!
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| 16:49 | <Hyperbyte> Sure. There's a whole bunch of someones here.
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| 17:45 | <Hyperbyte> k... Alkis, I need your help again pretty badly. It works though at the moment, so I'm gonna go home and pray it stays working overnight.
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| 20:28 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: need help?
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| 20:48 | <Hyperbyte> ... yeah!
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| 20:48 | Heh
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| 20:50 | <Damianos> Hey Hyperbyte
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| 20:54 | with LTSP the chroot is the virtualized OS that gets sent out to thin clients?
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| 20:54 | <Damianos> bon giorno markit
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| 20:55 | <markit> hi Damianos :)
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| 20:55 | <Hyperbyte> Damianos, what do you mean by 'virtualized'?
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| 20:55 | <Damianos> with member:LTSP the chroot is the virtualized OS that gets sent out to thin clients?
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| 20:55 | <markit> tonight I will work on a pc that will be connected to a "magic board", no ltsp work then :)
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| 20:56 | <Hyperbyte> The chroot is /opt/ltsp/i386/ for 32-bit systems, it's the client OS, yes... but it's not virtualized.
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| 20:56 | At least not when it's running on the clients. :)
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| 20:56 | <Damianos> according to my web searches : "A chroot environment can be used to create and host a separate virtualized copy of the software system"
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| 20:56 | <Hyperbyte> Yes.
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| 20:56 | Virtualizing an OS = running it inside another OS
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| 20:57 | If you would start the /opt/ltsp/i386/ OS on the server, in a virtual machine on the server OS, that would be virtualization
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| 20:57 | <Damianos> ah ok
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| 20:57 | <markit> maybe "virtual" would be more apropriate
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| 20:57 | <Hyperbyte> But when it runs on the clients it runs as host OS, there's no other operating system above it.
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| 20:58 | <Damianos> ok so when alkisg fixed my italc problem, he said I had it installed in chroot and that he removed it
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| 20:59 | so by this I was assuming that I had it installed into the /opt/ltsp/i386 ltsp image
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| 20:59 | <Hyperbyte> chroot = /opt/ltsp/i386/
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| 20:59 | <Damianos> ok
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| 21:02 | so now that it's not installed in chroot, I can run italc as any user that's logged into the server (with proper permissions and keys setup of course)
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| 21:03 | so when one connects to the LTSP server via ssh, you should have the same access as if you were sitting right in front of the server yes?
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| 21:04 | * Hyperbyte has never used nor read about italc | |
| 21:06 | <Damianos> that's ok, I'm just trying to figure out how to remotely access the computer as a teacher. I've tried to use X forwarding over ssh and italc can't see the thin clients. However I tried to do a VNC session and that doesn't connect either
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| 21:07 | by computer I meant the LTSP server
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| 21:08 | everything works just great on the server btw
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| 21:09 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg always types this
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| 21:09 | !xauthority
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| 21:09 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: xauthority: To access the thin client X display from ssh or from a local console, try: export $(tr '\0' '\n' < /proc/$(pidof -s ldm gdm-simple-greeter gnome-session | cut -d' ' -f1)/environ | egrep '^DISPLAY=|^XAUTHORITY=').
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| 21:10 | <Hyperbyte> But that's Greek to me.
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| 21:11 | <Damianos> well if it was just for me I could wrap my head around that eventually. What I'd like is to get italc working over ssh so my wife can manage the classroom from her laptop
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| 21:12 | I'll look into that xauthority though
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| 21:12 | sounds pretty handy
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| 21:58 | <Hyperbyte> You could probably script it, but I guess italc would be your best bet.
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