IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 21 January 2014 (all times are UTC)
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| 15:02 | <orygynz> hi
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| 15:02 | anybody ?
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| 15:08 | <elias_a> vmlintu: Nice blog post! "Managing Thousands of Linux Desktops With Puavo" http://labs.opinsys.com/blog/2014/01/21/managing-thousands-of-linux-destops-with-puavo/
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| 15:08 | orygynz: Yes?
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| 15:21 | <orygynz_> sorry disconnected
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| 15:21 | still here ?
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| 15:21 | <||cw> orygynz: you are here
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| 15:22 | elias_a: that sounds quite cool
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| 15:22 | <orygynz_> :)
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| 15:22 | i have some problem with my ltsp server on Xubuntu
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| 15:23 | <orygynz_> its to connect my client to ad authentification
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| 15:26 | <orygynz> :-|
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| 15:27 | <||cw> ad auth is a pain. I've Centrify's free version and that seems to work reasonably well, but I haven't used it for think clients yet, just for samba and ssh, so it should work
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| 15:27 | think/thin/
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| 15:27 | <orygynz> the integration is ok for the ltsp server, i can connect my ad users
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| 15:27 | but not with thin client
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| 15:28 | and i always found configuration with ldap
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| 15:28 | or i used winbind in pam and its works
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| 15:42 | <||cw> you mean for localapps or something?
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| 15:49 | <orygynz> i have a ltsp server
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| 15:50 | and i can connect with my users local or from my windows'users server
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| 15:50 | but if i try to connect with a thin client
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| 15:51 | <orygynz_> you don't speak french ?
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| 15:58 | <orygynz_> cw ?
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| 15:58 | i have some trouble with web irc
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| 15:58 | i don't know if you can read this
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| 16:03 | <||cw> I do not
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| 16:04 | <||cw> are you using https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/?channel=#ltsp ?
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| 16:05 | hm, I though freenode offically moved to kiwi from qw, seems not. kiwi works a lot better
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| 16:06 | <orygynz_> no im in irc from ltsp.org, but im not at home
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| 16:06 | <||cw> anyway, I'd think if the ldap is working for ssh with domain accounts, it would work for ltsp too
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| 16:07 | <orygynz_> i know... but i don't find the problem
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| 16:07 | in auth.log
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| 16:07 | i juste have
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| 16:07 | just
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| 16:07 | client ltsp sshd[2415] connection closed by 0.0.0.0 [preauth]
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| 16:09 | and i don't understand why the local users don't work on thin client...
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| 16:11 | <||cw> so local and domain users both fail?
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| 16:12 | <orygynz_> yes on thin client
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| 16:12 | <||cw> that could be as simple as a ssh host key mismatch in the thin client image
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| 16:12 | <orygynz_> yes its possible
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| 16:12 | ssh service status is running
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| 16:12 | <||cw> that's the a common cause of " sshd[2415] connection closed by 0.0.0.0 [preauth]"
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| 16:13 | <orygynz_> i try with ltsp-update-sshkeys
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| 16:13 | <||cw> right, was just going to suggest that
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| 16:13 | <orygynz_> where i can see if its this command do is job ?
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| 16:14 | <||cw> check the /etc/ssh/ file in the chroot before and after
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| 16:15 | <orygynz_> ok
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| 16:15 | i try
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| 16:15 | and the file ssh_know_hosts seems to be new
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| 16:15 | the hour changed
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| 16:16 | in
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| 16:16 | opt ltsp i386 etc ssh
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| 16:17 | its crazy !
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| 16:17 | :/
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| 16:19 | i don't understand...
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| 16:22 | <orygynz> i missed something ?
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| 16:22 | no other ideai ? :/
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| 16:22 | idea
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| 16:23 | <alkisg> Go to some other pc and type `ssh user@server`, can you login that way?
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| 16:25 | <||cw> and switch to the kiwi client, it's for more stable
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| 16:25 | https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/?channel=#ltsp ?
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| 16:26 | * alkisg never had issues with http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ltsp | |
| 16:32 | <orygynz> ssh users@server works
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| 16:32 | sorry, i have to go
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| 16:32 | <alkisg> Which distribution and version are you using?
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| 16:32 | OK, bb
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| 16:32 | <orygynz> thanks for your time, i will come back later
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| 16:32 | Xubuntu 12.04.3
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| 16:32 | <alkisg> !screen_02
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| 16:32 | <ltsp> screen_02: To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using_a_shell_SCREEN
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| 16:33 | <alkisg> Try ssh from there when you have time, then switch to vt7 and try again via ldm
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| 16:33 | This bypasses the keys problem
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| 16:33 | <orygynz> ok thanks
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| 16:33 | !quit
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| 16:33 | <ltsp> Error: You don't have the owner capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
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| 16:34 | <alkisg> vmlintu: nice article! :)
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| 16:34 | Did you say you have nvidia-current etc installed? Do you also have nvidia-173 and fglrx?
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| 16:35 | <vmlintu> alkisg: thanks
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| 16:36 | <vmlintu> alkisg: was the nvidia/fglrx question to me?
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| 16:36 | <alkisg> yes
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| 16:36 | <vmlintu> alkisg: yes, we have nvidia-current installed and some images have also fglrx, but we have pretty much no use for it
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| 16:37 | We are using kernel.org kernels nowadays, so fglrx requires a bit more work
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| 16:38 | <alkisg> Wow, why so?
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| 16:38 | (kernel.org)
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| 16:38 | <vmlintu> alkisg: device drivers mostly.. too many bugs in the versions Ubuntu is providing
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| 16:38 | And also NFS
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| 16:39 | <alkisg> vmlintu: why not install a debian kernel instead?
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| 16:39 | I too saw issues with the ubuntu kernels
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| 16:39 | Ubuntu is trying to do too much for its manpower, and many things have been falling apart...
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| 16:39 | <vmlintu> Haven't thought about using debian kernels, actually
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| 16:40 | <alkisg> They also support cmov, non-pae systems etc etc
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| 16:40 | aufs, not overlayfs, but it even seems more stable
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| 16:40 | <vmlintu> kernel.org kernels have been working nicely actually with overlayfs patched on top of it
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| 16:41 | This is what we are using: https://github.com/opinsys/opinsys-linux
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| 16:41 | <alkisg> vmlintu: actually , do you have a few minutes to chat in general about your solution? As you know, we're in very similar situations, so I think it'd be good to exchange knowledge etc...
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| 16:42 | You're not using ltsp-cluster at all, right?
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| 16:42 | <vmlintu> alkisg: sure
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| 16:42 | No, there's no ltsp-cluster at all
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| 16:42 | <alkisg> Do you have a public repository?
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| 16:42 | ppa or something?
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| 16:42 | <vmlintu> http://archive.opinsys.fi/
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| 16:43 | <alkisg> And, using only LTS versions?
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| 16:43 | Or, did you ever thing about migrating to Debian?
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| 16:43 | <vmlintu> There's Jenkins following the Github repos and it compiles and pushes to the apt repo
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| 16:44 | <alkisg> Hmm I can't find any packages in http://archive.opinsys.fi/pool/ ...
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| 16:44 | <vmlintu> Currently we are using 12.04 on the boot servers and 12.10 on everything else. We are planning to migrate to 14.04 next.
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| 16:45 | alkisg: it has git branches as sub directories. http://archive.opinsys.fi/git-master/ has the master branches
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| 16:45 | <alkisg> Sorry, I meant repository of packages, .deb files...
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| 16:45 | Haha
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| 16:45 | OK I just saw what you meant
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| 16:46 | About nvidia-current, does it cause any problems on boot servers or non-nvidia clients?
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| 16:47 | <vmlintu> alkisg: About Debian.. We've been thinking about it also, but haven't decided anything on that yet
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| 16:47 | <alkisg> If not, maybe why should push the update-alternatives code upstream in ltsp for everyone?
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| 16:47 | We were thinking about moving to debian, if you guys also are going to do it at some point, it's an additional reason, as there will be more users with the same use case :)
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| 16:48 | <vmlintu> alkisg: our boot servers do not have desktop or anything else installed.. basically just network services
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| 16:48 | <alkisg> It's getting harder and harder to undo all the ubuntu modiciations that break things..
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| 16:48 | What about non-nvidia clients? Everything working fine there?
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| 16:50 | Wow you guys have a *lot* of stuff under https://github.com/opinsys/ - maybe it's time to upstream some of those? :)
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| 16:50 | <vmlintu> alkisg: we have patched the nvidia package itself to get it working.. the packaging is here: https://github.com/opinsys/opinsys-debs/tree/master/packages/default/nvidia-graphics-drivers/debian
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| 16:51 | <alkisg> vmlintu: cool, that's what I was thinking. Patching, or repackaging, the nvidia-* and fglrx drivers to a separate package that doesn't update alternatives etc, and leaves ltsp to do it
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| 16:52 | But I was afraid to invest too much time there...
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| 16:52 | <vmlintu> Basically it works so that if nvidia is not defined, none of the libraries get used
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| 16:52 | <alkisg> Does it need initramfs changes?
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| 16:53 | Haha, you've packaged cmaptools too?
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| 16:53 | <vmlintu> Actually, I don't remember if it the current version changes initramfs. At some point it did, but we did rework it at one point.
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| 16:54 | <alkisg> We got permission to package that, and uploaded it to our repository...
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| 16:54 | We really need to join forces on many things
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| 16:54 | What changes would you like to upstream to LTSP?
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| 16:55 | <vmlintu> There are some packages that we do not put in archive.opinsys.fi because they have licensing issues. So we use those only internally.
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| 16:57 | <alkisg> Ah, and another thing... We're thinking of switching to samba for authentication instead of libpam-sshauth or ldap... have you tried that?
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| 16:58 | <vmlintu> We really need the laptop support in the images, so that would be the first on my list..
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| 16:58 | We are now using pam_krb5 and pam_sss depending on the device type. sssd for laptops
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| 16:59 | <alkisg> You mention something about .diff images sent to the laptops by the servers, how is that implemented?
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| 17:00 | What I was thinking: download new.img or rsync its contents, if it's compressed btrfs instead of squashfs, while the laptop is up and running with old.img
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| 17:00 | <vmlintu> It's rdiff between old and new image
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| 17:01 | <alkisg> So you have 3 aufs/overlayfs mounts in the client?
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| 17:01 | i386.img, diff.img and tmpfs?
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| 17:01 | <vmlintu> No, we download the rdiff and create the new.img from old.img using the rdiff
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| 17:02 | <alkisg> It's squashfs?
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| 17:02 | <vmlintu> yes, squashfs currently
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| 17:02 | <alkisg> I find it weird that you can diff it
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| 17:02 | I thought since it's compressed, _all_ content would be different...
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| 17:03 | <vmlintu> Well, it's a compromise between download speed, required cpu power, disk usage, etc..
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| 17:03 | <alkisg> Do the laptops have local ext4 partitions?
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| 17:04 | and/or swap partitions/
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| 17:05 | <vmlintu> alkisg: /images, /home, /tmp, /state and swap
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| 17:05 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 17:05 | <vmlintu> images has old and new images
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| 17:05 | home has normal user directories
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| 17:05 | <alkisg> Can they also boot windows?
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| 17:06 | And login happens with pam caching?
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| 17:06 | <vmlintu> state has things like puavo device credentials, ssl client certificates, logs, etc
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| 17:06 | we do not really support dualbooting windows on laptops
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| 17:07 | sssd caches the kerberos logins and its cache is put under /state
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| 17:07 | <alkisg> Cool. So, users that haven't logged in before, cannot do it while the laptop is offline, ok, no big deal there.
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| 17:08 | <vmlintu> So offline logins work after user has logged in once. sssd can even fetch kerberos ticket for the user when the network comes back up.
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| 17:09 | E.g. samba mounts from the boot server work with kerberos ticket so the user doesn't need to type password there
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| 17:10 | <alkisg> Does kerberos need ldap? I mean, if we want to keep it as simple as possible, can we only use samba + kerberos? Or, samba + sssd? What would be the simplest way there?
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| 17:11 | <alkisg> There's also the possibility to just mount the samba home dir, and copy the ssh keys of the client in order for passwordless ssh to any server, but it sounds a bit hackish...
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| 17:11 | <vmlintu> alkisg: laptops are actually not using ldap now, but Puavo sessions that include user information + some configurations
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| 17:11 | alkisg: kerberos doesn't need ldap
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| 17:12 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 17:12 | How come you haven't yet "applied" to be an upstream ltsp developer? :)
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| 17:13 | Or at least, open launchpad bug reports for all the code that you'd like to see merged upstream?
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| 17:14 | <vmlintu> that's a good question
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| 17:15 | We have actually changed most of the LTSP code so much that I'm not sure if it's LTSP anymore..
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| 17:16 | <alkisg> We've wondered many times if it's worth it to develop in upstream LTSP anymore, having rewritten so much of its code
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| 17:17 | It would be much simpler to start from scratch
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| 17:17 | We stayed because of the community, not only the devs but the users too
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| 17:17 | Your changes solve actual problems
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| 17:17 | <vmlintu> My plan was to write more blog posts about our solution so that the changes would be understandable to others too
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| 17:17 | <alkisg> So I think LTSP should support them in one form or another...
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| 17:18 | <vmlintu> But our code is also integrated to Puavo, which is not good from LTSP's point-of-view
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| 17:18 | <alkisg> You can use hooks
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| 17:19 | For example, sch-scripts installs a greek version of lts.conf, when the user runs ltsp-config lts.conf
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| 17:19 | There's no mention of sch-scripts anywhere in ltsp-config, it just has appropriate hooks
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| 17:20 | <vmlintu> yes, our code should be made more like that..
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| 17:21 | <alkisg> For example I also want to remove all the ltsp-cluster code from ltsp, but first I'll need to create appropriate hooks for all the configuration phases it needs
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| 17:21 | <vmlintu> I never got ltsp-cluster to work myself
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| 17:22 | We have replaced it with puavo's load balancer now
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| 17:22 | <alkisg> All those can be integrated to ltsp
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| 17:22 | It can just have hooks in the appropriate places... configuration, load balancers, pam, whatever
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| 17:23 | <vmlintu> we are now configuring quite a bit of stuff here: https://github.com/opinsys/puavo-ltsp/blob/master/client/puavo-configure-client
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| 17:23 | <vmlintu> Some of the configuration is done from upstart jobs also
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| 17:24 | * alkisg doesn't like upstart, it's distro-specific | |
| 17:24 | <alkisg> When new ltsp versions are released, do you need a lot of time to adapt them to your needs?
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| 17:24 | Or your code works fine even as ltsp is changing?
| |
| 17:25 | E.g. does puavo client depend on ltsp-client, or it replaces it completely?
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| 17:25 | <vmlintu> puavo-ltsp-client replaces most of ltsp-client
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| 17:26 | <alkisg> So ltsp-client is installed, or it isn't?
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| 17:26 | <vmlintu> ltsp-client is installed, but e.g. we are not using ldm, but lightdm
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| 17:27 | But we are not using init=/sbin/init-ltsp, but init=/sbin/init-puavo
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| 17:27 | <alkisg> Why? Couldn't you put puavo in /usr/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d/00-puavo?
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| 17:27 | <vmlintu> To answer your question - I haven't been really updating to the new ltsp versions
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| 17:28 | <alkisg> That's where I'm getting at... you've basically forked ltsp
| |
| 17:28 | Which makes both of them have less manpower
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| 17:29 | <vmlintu> The dhcp client code killed laptops
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| 17:30 | <alkisg> I don't know what part you're speaking of, but a bug report should be filed there...
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| 17:30 | <vmlintu> The laptop support required extensive changes to so many places, that I really cannot say that it's only a bug report
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| 17:31 | <alkisg> It doesn't matter if it's a "master bug report with many little ones" or some other form
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| 17:32 | <vmlintu> My plan was to write about these in a series of blog posts so that different bits could be understood
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| 17:32 | <alkisg> The main idea is if people want to join forces with upstream, or fork... forking is fine to quickly draft/solve things , or when upstream is not responsive, but then it's harder to maintain and gives less manpower to both projects
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| 17:33 | <vmlintu> yes.. forking was not really our plan
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| 17:34 | * alkisg was tempted to fork, or rather, rewrite, ltsp, many times in the past... | |
| 17:36 | <alkisg> Thanks for the chat vmlintu, I hope you'll ask to join ltsp-upstream at some point in the future :)
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| 17:36 | <vmlintu> Looking back now, we started going to different direction when we started using kerberos and ltsp couldn't be changed to use it
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| 17:37 | <alkisg> I think it should be changed though
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| 17:37 | <vmlintu> I know that LTSP is about being simple, but kerberos really enabled us to do everything else
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| 17:37 | <alkisg> LTSP may ship with e.g. libpam-sshauth as a base, but it should support anything pam-*
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| 17:39 | <vmlintu> If LTSP were to go towards kerberos, I'd be really interested in participating
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| 17:39 | And laptops too
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| 17:39 | <alkisg> vmlintu: if LTSP supported pam, wouldn't that be enough for kerberos?
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| 17:40 | LTSP is about having a simple base *that has hooks about anything* :)
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| 17:42 | <vmlintu> PAM support does most of it, yes
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| 17:42 | <alkisg> So yup ltsp is already going that way
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| 17:43 | It only lacks manpower, not direction
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| 17:44 | We've dropped xatomwait, cdpinger, will drop ldm etc... and at that point with all that code dropped we'll support more than we ever did before
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| 17:45 | LTSP can be made small and simple, but able to support a very wide range of use cases
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| 17:46 | <vmlintu> what do you think of netbooting the ltsp servers?
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| 17:46 | <alkisg> I've adviced dgross to do that 2-3 years ago :)
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| 17:46 | <vmlintu> are you doing it?
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| 17:46 | <alkisg> I've no need for it
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| 17:46 | Schools here have 1 server
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| 17:47 | And their internet connections are usually 2 mbps, to little to netboot stuff
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| 17:47 | *too
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| 17:49 | <alkisg> Greece has lots of small schools, 50 to 400 students, so 1 server is usually enough. If more are needed, they're usually completely separated even if they're on the same school
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| 17:49 | <vmlintu> What we do is that the boot server has minimal network services + ldap + kerberos kdc + kvm. Most boot servers have enough power to run a virtual kvm-ltspserver and some places have also physical hardware netbooting
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| 17:49 | <rmav> I'm looking for some help getting Fluxbox working on an LTSP client.
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| 17:49 | <vmlintu> In this setup we can change Ubuntu version of the LTSP server without doing actual installation
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| 17:49 | <alkisg> rmav: write the problems you're experiencing, and wait to see if anyone answers.. :)
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| 17:50 | <vmlintu> alkisg: or we can run multiple ubuntu versions side-by-side when testing updates
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| 17:50 | <alkisg> Schools here also don't have a lot of money, so in a good scenario they only give 500€ for a new modest server and a switch
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| 17:51 | And they switch their existing workstations from e.g. windows 2000 to ltsp thin clients...
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| 17:51 | So putting a VM layer would require more money, which we don't have
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| 17:51 | We advice them to use 2 partitions, one for the previous installation and one for the new
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| 17:52 | <vmlintu> here we own most of the servers and the school owns the client machines
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| 17:52 | <alkisg> So if e.g. 12.04 fails for them, they reboot the server and work in 10.04 in a couple of minutes, and we fix the problem later on when we have time
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| 17:53 | <alkisg> vmlintu: which parts are public, funded by the government there? Are most schools private? Your company?
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| 17:53 | <vmlintu> Cities fund their schools. There are no private schools here.
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| 17:54 | <alkisg> Ah, same here, except for very few ones
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| 17:54 | With the crisis cities don't have money for schools, though...
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| 17:54 | <vmlintu> I didn't understand all parts of your question, though
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| 17:55 | <alkisg> My team is part of the ministry of education here, and we mostly don't use private companies to support schools...
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| 17:55 | Is that the case there too?
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| 17:55 | <rmav> Our application servers are clustered Ubuntu 12.04. The main issue is ldm isn't showing any available sessions, only Default and Failseafe xterm. I used to be able to just start fluxbox from the user profile when I was using Ubuntu 10.10, but this version seems to be tied more tightly to the Unity desktop. I need to be able to run fluxbox for a controlled online testing environment, so only some user accounts need it.
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| 17:55 | <alkisg> rmav: check if ldm-server is installed on your server
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| 17:56 | <vmlintu> alkisg: it depends - some cities outsource all IT for their schools, some do it internally, some leave it to the "volunteer" math teacher
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| 17:56 | <alkisg> And try `ldminfod localhost` on your server
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| 17:57 | <rmav> Of course it is. ldminfod returns a number of available sessions, but the client doesn't list them. I've been running an LTSP cluster for the last 4 years.
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| 17:57 | Gadi has joined IRC (Gadi!~gadi@pool-108-21-187-8.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) | |
| 17:57 | <alkisg> Wowwww Gadi!!!
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| 17:57 | !g
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| 17:57 | <ltsp> g: Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 17:57 | <Gadi> alkisg!!
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| 17:58 | <alkisg> Loooooooooong time no see!!!
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| 17:58 | <Gadi> too long
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| 17:58 | way too long
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| 17:58 | <alkisg> How are you buddy?
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| 17:58 | <Gadi> thanks God, how are you?
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| 17:58 | <alkisg> rmav: and if you run it from the client SCREEN_02?
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| 17:58 | Gadi: a bit overworked, but fine otherwise
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| 17:59 | <Gadi> so, basically, nothing's changed ;)
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| 17:59 | <alkisg> Vagrant has mentioned that you've changed jobs?
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| 17:59 | Haha
| |
| 17:59 | True
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| 18:03 | <rmav> alkisg: SCREEN_02 isn't configured, only SCREEN_01 and SCREEN_07. lmdinfod isn't available on the chroot client in SCREEN_01.
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| 18:04 | <alkisg> Let me find you the netcat line...
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| 18:05 | nc server 9571
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| 18:05 | It should return the sessions
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| 18:06 | <rmav> Well, that doesn't return anything. Obviously 'server' isn't resolving.
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| 18:07 | <alkisg> From screen_01?
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| 18:07 | Try with the IP
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| 18:07 | <rmav> alkisg: Yes, from scree_01
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| 18:07 | I'll try the IP
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| 18:08 | alkisg: Still nothing.
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| 18:08 | <alkisg> Check firewall etc
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| 18:09 | $ grep 9571 /etc/inetd.conf
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| 18:09 | 9571 stream tcp nowait nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/ldminfod
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| 18:09 | That's on the server, it should reply to clients
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| 18:11 | <vmlintu> alkisg: how seriously are you thinking of debian?
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| 18:12 | <alkisg> vmlintu: the main thing holding me back is the lack of ubiquity there
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| 18:13 | <rmav> alkisg: xinetd is installed. There is no entry for ldminfod.
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| 18:13 | <vmlintu> alkisg: haven't really used it myself..
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| 18:13 | <alkisg> vmlintu: But the ubuntu live cd has various other issues that I'm starting to get tempted to create a simple installer and a grub-based debian live cd...
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| 18:14 | We already have boot code in ltsp, we wouldn't even need casper
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| 18:14 | And the live cd could function as a live ltsp server too
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| 18:15 | <vmlintu> alkisg: we are using preseeded usb sticks to do boot server installs now
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| 18:15 | <alkisg> We've been remastering our own live CDs, unpacking the ubuntu .iso, doing changes, repacking it
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| 18:15 | Because it was too broken, it didn't even support typing greek from 10.10 and on
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| 18:16 | And the Ubuntu developers ignore all the filed bug reports...
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| 18:16 | <vmlintu> But I've been thinking of creating a read-only squashfs/btrfs image that could be used on boot servers the same way as we use on laptops..
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| 18:16 | <alkisg> We've been pretty disappointed by many of the Ubuntu-developed software, unity, indicators, lightdm, ubiquity etc, they do minimal testing and they don't fix issues even years after they appear
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| 18:17 | <vmlintu> We built our own application menu for the desktop
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| 18:17 | lightdm works now after fixing some fork issues in it
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| 18:18 | But yes, the quality hasn't always been great
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| 18:18 | <alkisg> Lightdm, accountsservice, ubiquity... we can't type greek there. With gdm everything worked fine.
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| 18:19 | <vmlintu> hmm.. I should check if the russian support works everywhere.. I've been testing it only after login..
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| 18:19 | <alkisg> If Debian decides to adopt systemd instead of upstart, I think it'll be the final straw at least for me, I'll move there :)
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| 18:20 | Lightdm breaks the keyboard layout after login too. So, with autologin it's fine, but when actually using lightdm, the keyboard layout switching doesn't work inside the user session
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| 18:20 | <vmlintu> weird
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| 18:21 | <alkisg> The developers think that all countries use a single layout, e.g. "ru". We're using two, "us,gr"
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| 18:21 | So they only keep the first one, "us"
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| 18:21 | And now in 14.04 it's even worse, the Ubuntu keyboard indicator doesn't work either
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| 18:21 | So that's the 4th program they break wrt international keyboard support
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| 18:22 | And all of them work fine e.g. in Debian...
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| 18:22 | <vmlintu> How is the greek layout setup? Are there different variations of it so that you need two?
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| 18:23 | <alkisg> The characters are not latin, so we need a keyboard shortcut (alt+shift) which changes from typing english, to typing greek
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| 18:23 | english <alt+shift> ελληνικά <alt+shift> english again
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| 18:23 | <vmlintu> so us,gr defines that alt+shift switches between those two?
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| 18:24 | <alkisg> cat /etc/default/keyboard
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| 18:24 | XKBLAYOUT="us,gr"
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| 18:24 | XKBVARIANT=","
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| 18:24 | XKBOPTIONS="grp:alt_shift_toggle,grp_led:scroll"
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| 18:24 | It's the XKBOPTIONS that defines the alt+shift part
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| 18:25 | <vmlintu> ok.. never had to deal with those myself
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| 18:25 | <alkisg> It's been working in xorg for ages
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| 18:25 | Ubuntu broke it 4 years ago, and they're not working on fixing it
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| 18:26 | * alkisg waves to vagrantc | |
| 18:26 | <vmlintu> xorg does quite a few things nicely there.. I was really surprised when icelandic letters just work..
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| 18:27 | <alkisg> vagrantc: so, vmlintu says that if LTSP is OK with supporting kerberos, he'll start contributing more upstream :D
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| 18:27 | <vmlintu> I better start learning shell again :)
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| 18:28 | <alkisg> xorg and gdm 2 were fine. gdm 3 broke things, but they fixed it in just a few months
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| 18:28 | Lightdm yet didn't, years later...
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| 18:28 | vmlintu: I think python is fine, at least for server-side parts
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| 18:28 | Ah, ruby... dunno
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| 18:29 | <vmlintu> Puavo is now all ruby
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| 18:29 | <alkisg> Is an "apt-get install ruby" enough? I.e. it only adds 2-3 MB?
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| 18:30 | <vmlintu> alkisg: https://github.com/opinsys/puavo-ltsp/blob/master/debian.default/control#L30
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| 18:31 | <alkisg> Any particular reason to select ruby over e.g. python, which seems to be a bit more standard in the linux world?
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| 18:32 | <vmlintu> When we started coding Puavo, python's ldap support was not even comparable..
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| 18:32 | <alkisg> Strange... but a good reason, of course
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| 18:33 | <vmlintu> It's built on top of ruby on rails and activeldap
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| 18:35 | So because the server side is ruby, we are building also the client side mostly on ruby
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| 18:35 | <vmlintu> I should try to create a demo organisation in Puavo for you so that you can try it out
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| 18:37 | <rmav> alkisg: I tried reinstalling ldm-server and got this waring:
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| 18:37 | alkisg: Setting up ldm-server (2:2.2.9-1ubuntu0.1) ... Note: xinetd currently is not fully supported by update-inetd. Please consult /usr/share/doc/xinetd/README.Debian and itox(8).
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| 18:38 | alkisg: So I've installed openbsd-inetd and now have ldminfod in /etc/inetd.conf
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| 18:38 | <alkisg> rmav: yes inetd is usually preferred and more easy with ltsp than xinetd
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| 18:38 | So if it's the same to use, completely purge xinetd...
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| 18:38 | *to you
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| 18:39 | <rmav> alkisg: Purged. Which services should I restart to see results?
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| 18:40 | <alkisg> openbsd-inetd
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| 18:52 | <rmav> alkisg: Thanks so much for the insight. The Ubuntu installer should just replace xinetd with openbsd-inetd. I should be able to get everything working in the next half hour.
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