IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 9 September 2015 (all times are UTC)
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| 03:01 | <j2_> hola
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| 04:50 | <cyberorg> alkisg, no, but can be added in our ltsp repo if required
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| 04:51 | <alkisg> cyberorg: if it's not in all distros, we could just keep using jetpipe or use socat
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| 04:51 | <cyberorg> alkisg, http://rpm.pbone.net/ only mandriva seems to have it in all rpm distros
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| 04:52 | <alkisg> cyberorg: ah, then you could use that package in opensuse without much overhead for you/
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| 04:52 | ?
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| 04:53 | (in your ltsp repo...)
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| 04:53 | <cyberorg> packaging it shouldn't be too much trouble
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| 04:56 | <alkisg> Cool, thanks, I'll switch the schools here to that model (not using cupsd on fat clients but something like jetpipe) and test to see which tool is best
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| 06:24 | <fnurl_> ugh - stupid chrome crashed, i hadn't finished reading the chat from y/day :(
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| 06:24 | <alkisg> irclogs.ltsp.org
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| 06:25 | <fnurl_> awesome!!
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| 06:25 | i have to get off this webclient
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| 06:27 | <alkisg> Thunderbird is easy enough to setup for a chat client
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| 06:27 | * alkisg is using pidgin, but it's not preinstalled in many distros | |
| 06:28 | <fnurl_> i'm a big fan of pidgin, i haven't used thunderbird for years
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| 06:28 | <alkisg> Thunderbird is preinstalled and does have an embedded irc client
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| 06:29 | So it's usually better using that, instead of the web chat client
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| 06:29 | <fnurl_> yeah - i'm not a fan of web clients, but this is a work machine
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| 06:29 | windows
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| 06:33 | found what I was looking for, you were chatting y/day about ltsp-pnp
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| 06:39 | brb
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| 10:19 | * alkisg has found the first school here that's infected with a real linux virus... :) | |
| 10:19 | <alkisg> Possibly this one: https://blog.avast.com/2015/01/06/linux-ddos-trojan-hiding-itself-with-an-embedded-rootkit/
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| 10:20 | Yup all the contents and init scripts and cron jobs etc match, it was this one
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| 10:32 | <vmlintu> on a ltsp server?
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| 10:32 | <alkisg> Meh the person that installed it was not a teacher but a 70 year old debian user that was trying to help... he probably set the root password to 1234
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| 10:32 | Yes, on the ltsp server
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| 10:32 | (ubuntu, the root user is not enabled by default)
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| 10:32 | I'll check tomorrow for how they managed to get infected...
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| 14:14 | <touchware> Hi all, I'm trying to get to work LTSP mounts in clients under Debian Jessie. I've LOCALDEV true, but mounting didn't work. I had no problems with this in previous version. After lot of googling I've installed ltspfs in the client. It did help, there is /root/media/XXX. But this directory can be accessed only two seconds. After that it says endpoint not connected. Any advice on that?
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| 14:18 | <vagrantc> fat clients? thin clients?
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| 14:18 | <touchware> thin clients
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| 14:19 | <vagrantc> where are you seeing /root/media/XXX ?
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| 14:19 | <touchware> on the client
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| 14:19 | <vagrantc> how are you accessing the client? using localapps?
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| 14:19 | <touchware> no ssh
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| 14:20 | <vagrantc> ok
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| 14:20 | <touchware> the client runs xfreerdp
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| 14:20 | <vagrantc> look in /var/run/ltspfs_fstab
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| 14:20 | <touchware> i've looked there, everything seems ok
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| 14:20 | <touchware> the usb stick is recognised
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| 14:21 | <vagrantc> could you cut and paste the line?
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| 14:23 | <touchware> sorry, i can't find this in terminal history, but this did work even before i've installed ltspfs
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| 14:24 | ive found it
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| 14:24 | root@ltsp159:~# cat /var/run/ltspfs_fstab
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| 14:24 | /dev/sda1 /var/run/drives/usbdisk-sda1 vfat defaults,utf8 0 0
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| 14:25 | <vagrantc> i can't fathom how it would work with xfreerdp without ltspfs installed on the client.
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| 14:26 | <touchware> ok, i've installed ltspfs
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| 14:26 | it works how i've described
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| 14:26 | here is the mount:
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| 14:26 | <touchware> ltspfs on /media/root/usbdisk-sda1 type fuse.ltspfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=0,group_id=0)
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| 14:27 | as i said i can ls /media/root/usbdisk-sda1
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| 14:27 | <vagrantc> ok.
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| 14:27 | <touchware> i can see the files on usb stick
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| 14:27 | but only 2 seconds
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| 14:27 | after that
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| 14:27 | there is still the mountpoint /media/root/usbdisk-sda1
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| 14:27 | <touchware> but i can't access the files
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| 14:28 | <vagrantc> "ls /media/root/usbdisk-sda1" does what?
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| 14:28 | <touchware> the error is something like this (translated):
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| 14:29 | <touchware> ls: can't access /media/root/usbdisk-sda1: communication endpoing is not connected
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| 14:29 | any hints were can i look (logs) or what could be the problem?
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| 14:29 | <vagrantc> look in /var/log/syslog
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| 14:30 | <touchware> there is nothing interesting
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| 14:31 | <vagrantc> same problem with other USB sticks?
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| 14:31 | <touchware> yes
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| 14:31 | also with ntfs
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| 14:31 | exactly the same behaviour
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| 14:33 | could it be a problem on the server side? like ltspfs mounts device locally and then tries to export this to server and when there is no response from the server it somhow dies<
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| 14:33 | ?
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| 14:33 | <vagrantc> i've never used it in conjunction with an RDP client, so i can't say much... never really seen this behavior.
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| 14:34 | <touchware> well, i think there is no big difference
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| 14:34 | i just need, to have it mounted locally
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| 14:34 | and this is imho done also when you use it with gnome/...
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| 14:34 | <vagrantc> the big difference is it works fine for me...
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| 14:35 | <touchware> it did work for me also in older versions of debian
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| 14:37 | <vagrantc> does the line in ltspfs_fstab still exist after the errors?
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| 14:37 | <touchware> yes, everything seems ok
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| 14:38 | after removing the usb stick, the /media/root/... disappears
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| 14:38 | which is also perfectly ok
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| 14:38 | is there a way to debug ltspfs?
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| 14:39 | <vagrantc> !ltspfs
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| 14:39 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'ltspfs', but I do know about these similar topics: 'ltspfs-source'
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| 14:39 | <vagrantc> there were some rather outdated debugging instructions ... but i don't think they would handle this
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| 14:39 | <touchware> ok
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| 14:40 | i see now, that there is no ltspfsd running on the server, this could be the problem...
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| 14:41 | work_alkisg is now known as alkisg | |
| 14:41 | <alkisg> touchware: are you using SCREEN_07="xfreerdp <options>"?
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| 14:42 | <touchware> yes
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| 14:42 | <alkisg> Then the client doesn't contact the ltsp server, no need for ltspfsd there
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| 14:42 | You only need ltspfsd + ltspfs locally
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| 14:42 | (in the chroot)
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| 14:43 | <touchware> ok, so i need install ltspfsd on the client?
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| 14:43 | <alkisg> If you don't have it already, yes
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| 14:43 | <touchware> i've installed only ltpsfs
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| 14:43 | <alkisg> Doesn't ltsp-client depend on ltspfsd?
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| 14:44 | <vagrantc> it wouldn't mount anything at all if ltspfs wasn't installed
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| 14:44 | <touchware> you're right
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| 14:44 | it is installed
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| 14:44 | it depends on ltspfs
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| 14:45 | <vagrantc> touchware: if you're still having troubles after a bit more debugging, please file a bug
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| 14:45 | !bug
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| 14:45 | <ltsp> bug: To file a bug report for upstream LTSP, go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp
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| 14:46 | <touchware> ok, i'd love to debug more, but i've no clue what ltspfs does
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| 14:46 | all the docs says it should work out of the box...
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| 14:46 | <vagrantc> ltsp: learn bug as for Debian specific bug reports: https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
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| 14:46 | <alkisg> !debian-bug
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| 14:46 | <ltsp> debian-bug: To file a bug report for Debian LTSP, go to https://bugs.debian.org/ltsp or one of the ltsp binary packages mentioned there
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| 14:47 | <alkisg> !ubuntu-bug
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| 14:47 | <ltsp> ubuntu-bug: To file a bug report for Ubuntu LTSP, go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp
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| 14:47 | <alkisg> !ltsp-bug
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| 14:47 | <ltsp> ltsp-bug: To file a bug report for upstream LTSP, go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp
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| 14:47 | <alkisg> !bug
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| 14:47 | <ltsp> bug: To file a bug report for upstream LTSP, go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp
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| 14:47 | <alkisg> ok...
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| 14:47 | <vagrantc> hrm.
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| 14:48 | in general upstream should be fine, but if people are more comfortable with their host distro's bug reporting system, then that should be fine...
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| 14:48 | <touchware> ok, I'll report upstream
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| 14:48 | <alkisg> I wouldn't see an upstream bug in e.g. fedora's bug tracking system
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| 14:48 | <vagrantc> no, but the maintainer's for that distro should forward bugs if appropriate
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| 14:49 | <touchware> ok, so you prefer to report to debian<
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| 14:49 | <alkisg> Yup, but I haven't seen any forwarded yet :)
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| 14:49 | <touchware> or both?
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| 14:49 | <vagrantc> touchware: i like the debian bts better, but i think alkisg pays more attention to upstream and often does great work :)
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| 14:50 | <touchware> ok, thanks for all your answers and time
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| 14:51 | * alkisg hasn't managed to get notifications from the debian's ltsp bug tracker yet... | |
| 14:51 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i could fix that... :)
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| 14:52 | <alkisg> Sure, please do so...
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| 14:52 | Are there any plans for debian to move from the email-based bug tracking system to a real bug tracker?
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| 14:53 | <vagrantc> are there any plans for launchpad to switch from a web based bug tracking system to a real bug tracker?
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| 14:53 | <alkisg> I'm not comparing distros... but it's quite hard to google each time that I want to file a bug report, to check the headers etc, and pray that I got them right
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| 14:54 | E.g. I can see a bug in the debian sources, and I don't have debian handy to run report-bug... so I have to send a mail.. and it takes me some time to find out how to do that each time
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| 14:55 | I have the same issue with mailing lists vs forums, for many many years before I started using linux, it's not about distros... :)
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| 14:56 | <vagrantc> Package, Version, send the email to submit@bugs.debian.org ...
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| 14:57 | <alkisg> There's no way I could tell teachers to do that, they'd send html mails and would be discarded
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| 14:58 | Anyway, I don't think I can persuade anyone over IRC for that, I was just really asking if debian is considering such a thing
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| 14:59 | <vagrantc> i think there's some plans for a web based interface for submission
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| 14:59 | <alkisg> But not e.g. to use bugzilla or something... ok
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| 15:00 | <vagrantc> not that i'm aware of
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| 15:45 | <maldridge> alkisg: https://alioth.debian.org/
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| 15:45 | its been around for a while, but very few packages use it
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| 15:46 | <alkisg> maldridge: is there a bug tracker there?
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| 15:47 | Are there any packages at all that use alioth for bug management instead of bugs.debian.org?
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| 15:48 | <maldridge> there is a bug tracker there, but I don't think there are any projects that use it over the bugs.debian.org one. Some projects use it in addition to that one though.
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| 15:49 | <alkisg> Maybe it's meant for projects that use alioth as "upstream" management vs distro management
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| 15:49 | <maldridge> I suspect so
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| 15:49 | <alkisg> E.g. dpkg, apt are upstream (native) in debian, they're not developed elsewhere...
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| 15:50 | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=737201
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| 15:50 | bugzilla is much more intuitive for me. launchpad too.
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| 15:50 | Even the kernel uses bugzilla...
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| 15:51 | <maldridge> bugzilla took me a while to wrap my head around, it is just very very large
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| 15:52 | <alkisg> To file my first bug against gnome bugzilla, it took me a minute or so. To file my first bug against debian... I couldn't believe that they were using mails to file bug reports...
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| 15:54 | <maldridge> its certainly easier to automate mail
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| 15:55 | <alkisg> Sure, but debian no longer needs to maintain the bug tracking system by itself, it can just use one of the others being developed elsewhere
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| 15:56 | <maldridge> it would be nice if there was some unified mechanism so that things like alioth and bugzilla and the mail system all talked to each other
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| 15:57 | <alkisg> I don't think that the suggested method in debian is to send a mail, but to use report-bug
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| 15:57 | And I'm don't see why report-bug couldn't use a bugzilla backend...
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| 15:57 | *I don't...
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| 15:57 | <maldridge> bugzilla is account based though isn't it
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| 15:58 | <alkisg> Debian tries to prohibit spammers from filing bug reports by making the procedure difficult
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| 15:58 | Bugzilla does the same with accounts
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| 15:58 | I think accounts make more sense for that...
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| 15:59 | I don't see any downsides to having an account for bug trackers.. even if it's openid or alioth accounts
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| 15:59 | <maldridge> well, there's certainly something to be said for spam, but any debian user can run report-bug with no additional steps
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| 16:00 | <alkisg> I don't think that it would be difficult to allow bugzilla to accept any mail for the reporter
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| 16:00 | But as a developer I wouldn't want a bug report from a possible spammer
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| 16:00 | I'd like him to at least verify his email, either by generating an account or by using an openid provider
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| 16:05 | <maldridge> hm, this is an interesting tangent, because that could break the GNU-strict install target
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| 16:05 | but would allow you to unify the bug tracker
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| 16:06 | <alkisg> There are distro bugs and upstream bugs
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| 16:06 | Upstreams should use whatever bug trackers they want
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| 16:07 | <maldridge> imho upstream bugs should be reported upstream and distros need not be aware of them
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| 16:07 | <alkisg> Distros should have some tracker that allows linking with upstream bugs, whenever applicable
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| 16:07 | Launchpad does support that part
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| 16:07 | Often a user doesn't know if the bug he reports is upstream or not,
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| 16:07 | and, when forwarded upstream, the distro needs to know when it's solved, in order to incorporate it
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| 16:08 | <maldridge> I've got it!
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| 16:08 | systemd-bugreportd
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| 16:08 | * maldridge runs for the door | |
| 16:09 | <alkisg> Hahaha
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| 16:10 | <maldridge> jokes aside, I agree that bug reporting is a critical issue among open source projects. It'll be interesting to see if there becomes one to rule them all in the next decade.
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| 16:12 | <alkisg> bugzilla is used by the kernel, firefox, gnome, fedora etc
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| 16:12 | gvy has left IRC (gvy!~mike@altlinux/developer/mike, Quit: Leaving) | |
| 16:12 | <alkisg> freedesktop as well
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| 16:13 | So also libreoffice and all others managed by freedesktop
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| 16:14 | kde too... I think only debian and ubuntu don't use it :P
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| 16:15 | <maldridge> pretty sure there are several others that don't use it
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| 16:15 | but my lecture class has ended and i have to move locations
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| 16:16 | <alkisg> Just, I was joking... although many heavy names use it
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| 16:16 | Have a nice time
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| 16:18 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_issue-tracking_systems ==> a good comparison there...
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| 16:31 | <maldridge> yeah, that article is great
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| 16:31 | If I could pick any though, I'd pick void's which is bug IRC and someone will deal with it
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| 16:45 | <alkisg> Hehe
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| 16:45 | * alkisg waves | |
| 16:45 | alkisg is now known as work_alkisg | |
| 16:51 | <maldridge> 'later
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| 20:41 | <dgroos> Hi!
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| 20:42 | My ltsp-pnp setup with 14.04.3 was working great until all of a sudden it wasn’t :-(
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| 20:43 | <maldridge> generally that's how things break; what broke in this iteration?
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| 20:43 | <dgroos> Now, I can’t log into clients: neither as admin/local users or via binding to the AD network.
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| 20:43 | maldridge: hi :)
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| 20:44 | This is feeling like just a few days ago before I reinstalled and everything just worked.
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| 20:45 | <maldridge> if you "tail -f /var/log/auth.log" what do you see when you try to log in
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| 20:45 | <dgroos> Luckily I cloned the server and could re-install but I want to solve/understand.
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| 20:49 | http://paste.ubuntu.com/12323599/
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| 20:51 | <maldridge> odd, so it makes it as far as authenticating and then disconnects for no reason?
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| 20:51 | is there a firewall on the server?
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| 20:52 | <dgroos> Don’t think so. I overstated the prob… actually AD-bound individuals can log in though they get an error message just before starting. Here’s the log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12323622/
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| 20:53 | <dgroos> I’m going to ‘un-join’ from the AD domain and re-try these 2 logins…
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| 20:54 | <maldridge> ok
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| 20:56 | <dgroos> got this when un-joining: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12323649/ …
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| 20:59 | <maldridge> that looks normal, do your logins work unjoined?
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| 21:00 | <dgroos> when trying to login as a local user (on another client) now after AD in unjoined I get: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12323673/
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| 21:03 | <maldridge> hm, that implies that its something in ldm that's killing it
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| 21:04 | as that is a clean disconnect from the client
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| 21:07 | <maldridge> not really sure what to tell you in that case, that's farther into ltsp than I've gotten so far
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| 21:09 | <dgroos> hmmm… I’ll try and google this, I imagine there’s a bug report, if not perhaps someone can help me craft one when it comes to that point, but I do need to communicate with someone who has the inside/current knowledge of ltsp (and maybe its -pnp version). Thanks again for your help.
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| 21:10 | <maldridge> yeah, that's either vagrantc or work_alkisg, possible vmlintu but I'm not really sure
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| 21:10 | good luck!
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| 21:10 | <dgroos> thanks!
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| 21:20 | <vagrantc> what's the issue?
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| 21:20 | dgroos: ^^ ?
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| 21:21 | * vagrantc is troubleshooting something else, but maybe can help | |
| 21:21 | <dgroos> This morning in the middle of class, login stopped working on the clients.
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| 21:21 | vagrantc: thanks!
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| 21:22 | Neither local nor AD-bound could log in.
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| 21:23 | Yeah, then some while later, AD people could log in. Seems like I didn’t do anything to cause this.
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| 21:24 | Here’s a paste of tail -f /var/log/auth.log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12323599/
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| 21:25 | <dgroos> right now people in the AD group can log in but get this message:
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| 21:26 | <vagrantc> anything in the user's ~/.xsession-errors that seems meaningful?
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| 21:26 | <dgroos> “Xsession: warning: unable to write to /tmp; X session may exit with an error” and it has a button before that with an “Okay” and if I press that login works for that AD user.
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| 21:27 | I’ll check…
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| 21:30 | <vagrantc> "df -h /tmp" ?
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| 21:30 | maybe your /tmp or / is full?
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| 21:30 | <dgroos> Nothing that I recognize BUT the time they were made seems around the time when the problem occurred, (approx.) http://paste.ubuntu.com/12323885/
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| 21:31 | says: /dev/sda1 70G 12G 55G 17% /
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| 21:34 | <Hyperbyte> What about "ls -ald /tmp" ?
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| 21:35 | <dgroos> hey Hyperbyte !
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| 21:35 | drwxrwxrwt 5 root root 36864 Sep 9 16:30 /tmp
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| 21:58 | <dgroos> vagrantc Hyperbyte The strangest thing is that this problem just appeared in the middle of 3rd period (those logged in fine, but no one else could login).
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| 21:58 | No one could log in 4th period, and by chance a student tried in 7th period and it was working for them again. I did nothing to stop it working nor to get it working either time.
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| 21:58 | (talking about AD users, I haven’t been able to since 3rd)
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| 21:59 | <vagrantc> can you ssh in?
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| 21:59 | <dgroos> I didn’t know you could into ltsp clients… I’ll try.
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| 22:02 | “ssh 192.168.67.115” “Read from socket failed: Connection reset by peer”
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| 22:03 | <vagrantc> no, to the server
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| 22:04 | <dgroos> Oh yes, I’ve been working on the server and have ssh’ed into it from this laptop, no issue. (though I am a bit concerned logging out of the server (desktop session).
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| 22:04 | <vagrantc> try as one of the users for the thin client
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| 22:04 | in your paste, you had user "d" ...
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| 22:05 | ssh d@localhost
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| 22:05 | if you don't want to log out
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| 22:05 | <dgroos> ahhh… my attempt at not putting out my userid ‘out there’
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| 22:05 | k’
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| 22:07 | Yes, I’m able to login to an AD user, through ssh on my laptop, to the ltsp server.
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| 22:07 | <vagrantc> do you have multiple logins with the same user on multiple terminals?
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| 22:08 | <dgroos> I’m logged into the server, tried to log into client—that’s not working now, though have done that many times in the past, if that’s what you mean.
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| 22:09 | <vagrantc> is your login from before or after the problems started?
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| 22:09 | and is your login using ssh from your laptop, or a thin client?
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| 22:10 | i'm just trying to get an understanding of your situation...
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| 22:10 | <dgroos> that’s right, after, since I tried to update/rebuild the ltsp-image as a way to try and fix things after 4th period.
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| 22:11 | from laptop—I’ll try from a client to server.
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| 22:12 | Sure. Am using ltsp-pnp with 14.04.3. Have 1 teacher computer/server, 16 clients at the minute. 1 main switch to most of the client. 4 clients connected through a second switch which plugs into the first switch.
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| 22:15 | <vagrantc> ok, so these are fat clients?
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| 22:16 | <dgroos> Right now, I just logged into the FAT client with a student user, then opened a terminal and was able to ssh into the server as myself d@192.168.67.1.
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| 22:16 | Yes, all fat clients.
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| 22:17 | <vagrantc> my guess is there was just some transient glitch with your AD setup that wasn't really LTSP related at all...
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| 22:18 | if it's working now...
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| 22:18 | or, there's still the "cannot write to /tmp" issue?
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| 22:19 | <dgroos> makes sense. The only issue is that I can’t log into the clients. But then, I don’t need to either. Just that it would be nice to get it working properly. Maybe I should re-build the clients again now that the problem for them isn’t happening.
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| 22:20 | vagrantc: yes, I’m going to do that and maybe it will be all working tomorrow :-)
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| 22:20 | worth a hope!
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| 22:20 | Thanks for investigating this problem.
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| 22:21 | <vagrantc> without people using LTSP, a lot of my work goes to waste :)
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| 22:21 | <dgroos> I’ve been working to make it the ‘next big thing’ here in our district. That continues to be another story :D
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| 22:22 | <vagrantc> whereabouts, if you don't mind?
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| 22:22 | <dgroos> Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
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| 22:23 | * vagrantc wonders if pschie is still in that area | |
| 22:25 | <dgroos> there was someone in Duluth…
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| 22:28 | I get no ‘hits’ when I type in “pschie” ltsp
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| 22:29 | <vagrantc> i guess it was scheie
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| 22:30 | came out to at least one LTSP by the Sea get-together
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| 22:33 | <dgroos> Cool. I just googled, looks like he’s “in town”, I’ll connect with him, I see he’s on linked in. :)
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| 22:34 | <vagrantc> working on getting some LTSP setups going (or updated) in some local schools in Portland
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| 22:35 | <dgroos> -pnp?
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| 22:35 | <vagrantc> gets a little old working with virtual thin clients all the time... :)
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| 22:35 | basically, although using lightdm instead of LDM.
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| 22:35 | but they're basically kiosks with a full desktop, not authenticated users
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| 22:36 | much simpler setup from an administrator perspective, if that workflow works for the site
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| 22:36 | <dgroos> why not user accounts? (though I’m swearing at the latter right now…)
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| 22:36 | anticipated my question…
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| 22:37 | <maldridge> dgroos: most of the time people are authenticating to some service you don't manage?
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| 22:37 | and/or just want a web browser
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| 22:37 | <dgroos> tell me about it!
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| 22:37 | <vagrantc> yup, that's the main use-case ... web browser
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| 22:37 | some word processing
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| 22:38 | <dgroos> True. Actually, I pretty much don’t even use the home folders much, mainly the browser with google docs and various other web apps.
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| 22:38 | <maldridge> my site migrated away from windows and one of the only questions was "is there still going to be firefox/chrome?"
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| 22:39 | <dgroos> But, we do cmaptools but I guess we could have that not store things on the desktop account though that does make things easier.
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| 22:39 | maldridge: for sure!
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| 22:40 | <vagrantc> yeah, i think most users save things to usb sticks or remote drives of one form or another
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| 22:41 | not having user configuration also makes it more feasible to setup fully redundant LTSP servers, possibly with live failover (although NBD/NFS may make that difficult)
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| 22:41 | well, just simpler all around
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| 22:41 | <dgroos> right, when they need images, it usually is temporary, just for the current session. Hmmmm…. would epoptes work with it?
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| 22:45 | <vagrantc> should
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| 22:45 | haven't tried yet, but plan to soon
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| 22:46 | <dgroos> I’ll be interested in hearing…
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| 22:47 | * vagrantc waves | |
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| 22:56 | <dgroos> as well dgroos :)
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