IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 10 December 2015 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:58 | <Guest68224> anybody home?
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| 02:59 | ghost town
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| 02:59 | <vagrantc> !ask
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| 02:59 | <ltsp`> ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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| 03:28 | <Ark74> that boot is really useful sometimes :)
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| 14:37 | <m3741> alkisg: Sorry for falling off of the face of the earth. i'd like to reboot/shutdown a thin client manually and remotely. for example if i apply updates to the image for local apps that i want to push out but no one is around to do a reboot...
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| 14:37 | <alkisg> !epoptes
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| 14:37 | <ltsp`> epoptes: Epoptes is a computer lab administration and monitoring tool. It works on Ubuntu and Debian based labs with LTSP or non-LTSP servers, thin and fat clients, standalone workstations, NX clients etc. More info: http://www.epoptes.org
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| 14:37 | <alkisg> See that ^ tool we developed
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| 14:38 | <m3741> heh, fine. :) i saw it but seemed like overkill for what i wanted to do. i'll go give it a shot. thanks as always!
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| 14:39 | also, thanks for fixing the shutdown_time bug 604908
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| 14:39 | <alkisg> m3741: it's designed to only need 1 mb ram on the clients, so it's as small as it gets
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| 14:39 | <m3741> alkisg: hmm, good to know. that is pretty tiny.
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| 14:39 | <alkisg> Nah, that was vagrantc that did it
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| 14:40 | I just closed the bug report once it got released
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| 14:40 | <m3741> ah, well in that case thanks to vagrantc!
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| 14:40 | are there coding guidelines for ltsp? do you accept patches? i'd like shutdown_time to have a day option as well instead of happening every day.
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| 14:41 | <alkisg> Sure, we accept patches
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| 14:41 | !ltsp-source
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| 14:41 | <ltsp`> ltsp-source: at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/files
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| 14:41 | <alkisg> Somewhere in the sources there's a small text about guidelines, but it's not a big deal
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| 14:42 | <m3741> sounds good. thx!
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| 14:42 | <alkisg> You're welcome
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| 15:23 | <Softeisbieger> Hey guys... I planning to buy a new pc and wonder about the following: Do people use LTSP in a 'private' (small) environment? In my case I'd like to put the server in the basement and have 2-3 clients around the house. Workload would be the usual web browsing, watching movies and I do some programming where I need some more computational power. So does LTSP make sense in such a setting?
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| 15:35 | <Dlkauf> Hi there guys. I have a small problem that I havent seemed to be able to fix
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| 15:36 | My clients will see my LTSP server and go to the splash screen to log in, but it will not allow anyone to log in. If I use putty to go into the server it will allow me to use my creds, or if i go to the physical server it will allow me to use my creds
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| 15:38 | <||cw> Softeisbieger: sure, that wouldn't be too hard to setup. would also allow using older low RAM systems. but unless you have gigE you'll likely want to use the "fat client" mode
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| 15:38 | <Softeisbieger> I'd setup gigE...
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| 15:39 | <||cw> which will likely need a NIC upgrade for older clients
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| 15:39 | <Softeisbieger> what about the 'multimedia' experience? I read online that e.g. video playback sometime is not the best?
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| 15:40 | this would then be my buisness and spare-time rig, so...
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| 15:46 | is it possible to have a multi-monitor setup with ltsp?
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| 15:47 | <Hyperbyte> Softeisbieger, yes it is.
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| 15:49 | <||cw> video playback is limited by bandwidth, and unless the video player supports offloading to the client via xv or whatever it'll stream it raw uncompressed. adobe's flash player is one that doesn't offload.
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| 15:49 | <Hyperbyte> Video playing using LTSP is fine. You have to realize though that with thin clients, the media player runs on the server, and transmits picture to the client. At HD resolution, this is an uncompressed picture of 1920x1080, with X frames per second. You do the maths... bandwith usually becomes bottle neck, if not the CPU processing all the data.
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| 15:49 | <||cw> this is why fat client is often better. you get a lot of the same advantages of a thin client, but programs run on the local CPU
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| 15:50 | <Hyperbyte> This is not a problem with mediaplayers that support xvideo, those transmit the compressed data across the network and only unfold it on the receiving client.
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| 15:50 | <||cw> and with later P4/core and early core2 systems going for under $50, they make great fat clients
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| 15:51 | Hyperbyte: yes, but it is a problem with video from the web
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| 15:51 | <Hyperbyte> ||cw, depends. Firefox has a nice xvideo plugin for HTML5 video.
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| 15:51 | <Softeisbieger> mhmhm... concerning fat client: as i understand only certain programs are run on the client? I read e.g. about some firefox mod!?
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| 15:51 | <Hyperbyte> ||cw, whether that's enough for you or not, depends on your use case.
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| 15:51 | <||cw> there's still a LOT of flash video out there
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| 15:52 | Softeisbieger: fat client run all client side, from the server's disk
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| 15:52 | <Softeisbieger> ok
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| 15:52 | <||cw> thin can be configured to run certain programs client side (localapps) but it's awkward
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| 15:52 | <Softeisbieger> I see...
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| 15:54 | <||cw> Softeisbieger: I believe by default the server will automatically choose fat or thin client based on the clients ram. it's rather easy to switch and test the difference
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| 15:55 | especially if you use ltsp-pnp
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| 15:56 | <Softeisbieger> in my case I do programming/data mining stuff, so when using a fat client these program run on the client?
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| 15:56 | <||cw> yes
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| 15:56 | <Softeisbieger> because actually part of my motivation is to put the beefy machine away, to have silence...
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| 16:03 | <Hyperbyte> Softeisbieger, in our office in Rotterdam, I use thin clients everywhere. Don't even run the browsers locally, to have no noise and minimal heat generation in the workplaces/offices.
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| 16:03 | This creates a much more relaxed and productive working environment.
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| 16:04 | <Softeisbieger> k, thanks for the input. I guess I'll simply try it to see if i like it...
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| 16:04 | <Hyperbyte> It's functioning perfectly on a gigabit network with 3GB uplink from server and ~15 clients. The downside is, yes, playing flash video sucks. But we don't use that for office purposes. Plus, it only sucks when playing fullscreen. Otherwise it performs fine.
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| 16:06 | The framerate drops the more bandwith it requires. Same for gaming, for example. The server can handle it easily, but there's just not enough available bandwith in 1 gigabit per second to transfer HD video live across the network with full framerate.
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| 16:06 | But if you have smaller video playback window, there's less bandwith used.
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| 16:07 | <Softeisbieger> makes sense
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| 16:07 | <Hyperbyte> If you're not using 1920x1080 but lower resolution you could even play video fullscreen.
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| 17:26 | <quinox> we want to use TOTP on all our servers
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| 17:26 | but the LTSP login probably doesn't like that right
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| 17:27 | * quinox looks into getting PAM to only require TOTP for non-LAN connections | |
| 17:58 | <alkisg> Dlkauf: try this:
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| 17:58 | !screen_02
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| 17:58 | <ltsp`> screen_02: To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using_a_shell_SCREEN
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| 17:59 | <alkisg> In that terminal, try: `ssh user@server`
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| 17:59 | Replace user with an existing username, but leave "server" exactly as "server", don't put another hostname or ip
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| 17:59 | See if you can log in that way
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| 18:07 | quinox: if you can use it with ssh, it will work with ltsp
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| 18:08 | ltsp just uses ssh to login to the server, that's all
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| 18:08 | <quinox> but how does the GUI work then?
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| 18:09 | right now you have a username and password field
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| 18:09 | (fat clients)
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| 18:09 | or you mean I should look into teaching LDM about it
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| 18:09 | <alkisg> it screen-scrapes ssh
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| 18:09 | No, ldm is a gui that runs ssh in the back end
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| 18:10 | It doesn't even use a library, it actually runs the ssh executable
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| 18:10 | <quinox> cool
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| 18:10 | <quinox> I still don't understand how it could work, but I can give it a try
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| 18:11 | <alkisg> Do you know how "ls | grep file" works?
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| 18:11 | Or "read x < file" ?
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| 18:11 | It's simple redirection of stdio between ldm and ssh
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| 18:11 | <quinox> so it will pop up another input box?
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| 18:12 | <alkisg> No, ldm reads the password from you via the gui, and then passes it to the ssh socket
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| 18:12 | ...to the ssh stdin
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| 18:12 | <quinox> yesh, but with TOTP I need to provide 2 pieces of information
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| 18:12 | the password and the TOTP
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| 18:12 | <alkisg> How would that work with ssh?
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| 18:13 | <quinox> it's part of the login process
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| 18:13 | the server can send queries to the client, and the client can respond
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| 18:13 | <alkisg> So ssh asks 3 things? username, then password, then totp?
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| 18:13 | <quinox> yes
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| 18:13 | <alkisg> Hmm ldm does show the ssh messages, but I'm not sure if it can handle the 3rd input
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| 18:14 | It could be patched to support it, but I'm afraid that it currently won't be able to handle it
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| 18:14 | Give it a try though
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| 18:14 | I think it was patched to handle password expiry
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| 18:14 | I.e. "your password has expired, enter a new one..."
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| 18:14 | <quinox> ah, it's very similar to that
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| 18:14 | <alkisg> So it might have some support for additional input
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| 18:15 | <quinox> it's probably at the same level in the protocol actually
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| 18:20 | <quinox> I see http://sourceforge.net/p/ltsp/mailman/message/29868837/ which suggest it won't be possible until at least LTSP6
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| 18:22 | <alkisg> It's just stdio, I'm sure it can be patched to support it even before ltsp 6 where ldm will be dropped
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| 18:24 | Hehe, put up a bounty if you want :D
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| 18:24 | !bounties
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| 18:24 | <ltsp`> Error: "bounties" is not a valid command.
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| 18:25 | <alkisg> !learn bounties as You can ask an LTSP developer to implement new features or fix hard bugs by offering a bounty: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Bounties
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| 18:25 | <ltsp`> The operation succeeded.
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| 18:26 | <quinox> I think I can teach PAM to not ask for TOTP for LAN IPs
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| 18:26 | <Dlkauf> OK I was away from my desk. Yes I can use the SSH into the server via IP address from Putty. But When I try to log in on the Login screen it will not accept my login and password
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| 18:27 | <quinox> From my research it looks like PAM is a bit annoying as you can't have two separet SSHd running that use different PAM setups
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| 18:28 | but, with the right mix of require/requisite settings I think I can hook up a script that uses the IP address to skip TOTP
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| 18:28 | Having TOTP inside LDM would be pretty sweet though
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| 18:29 | <alkisg> And password expiry handling too
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| 18:29 | I don't think it would need a big patch there, just couple stdio with the input box
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| 18:30 | <quinox> the simple (most robust) implementation would simply show whatever the server sends back with an input field until the login is done
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| 18:30 | <alkisg> Dlkauf: do try what I suggested, it's a lot different from putty, e.g. it checks your ssh keys in the ltsp client that way
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| 18:30 | quinox: yup
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| 18:31 | <quinox> the ssh client knows when the auth phase is completed, but I don't know how you can determine that by scraping the output
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| 18:31 | <alkisg> We run `ssh server echo LTSPROCKS` and check when we see that LTSPROCKS sentinel
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| 18:32 | !ltsprocks
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| 18:32 | <ltsp`> Error: "ltsprocks" is not a valid command.
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| 18:32 | <quinox> ah, exellent
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| 18:32 | <alkisg> Meh :D
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| 19:11 | <Dlkauf> ok am I going to have to do this from the server itself?
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| 19:46 | <flip_> wow, i wasn't expecting so many people
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| 19:49 | <gehidore> all 48 of us?
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| 19:49 | <flip_> ; )
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| 19:50 | I was wondering if anyone here has experience using ltsp for 'high end' gaming
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| 19:51 | when i say high end... around 1gb gddr5
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| 20:07 | <vagrantc> almost certainly want fat clients
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| 20:07 | probably not with sshfs homedirs, although that may depend on if the game hits the homedir a lot
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| 20:18 | <||cw> does sshfs not cache well?
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| 20:30 | <vagrantc> it's got encryption overhead, network overhead ... depending on what kind of performance you need/want, it may not be the best bet
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| 20:31 | a local tmpfs would give the best performance, if you've got the ram for it
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| 20:31 | and don't need data persistance
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| 20:36 | <flip_> ok, thanks, I'll work on find out more info before coming back
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| 20:36 | *finding
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