IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 1 November 2011 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:35 | <jammcq> hey friends
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| 02:08 | <MrDoh2> ok, I'm back... I guess the simplest way to ask my question, is netbooting a requirement for running LTSP 5?
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| 02:46 | <jammcq> vagrantc: hey
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| 02:49 | * vagrantc waves from cascadia | |
| 02:49 | <jammcq> nice trip back home?
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| 02:50 | * vagrantc stayed up way too late last night trying to get epoptes to work | |
| 02:51 | <vagrantc> though, it kind of gets me back on pacific time...
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| 02:54 | well, may as well finish getting home...
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| 03:00 | <mistik1> jammcq: Hey Jim
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| 03:03 | <jammcq> hey mistik1
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| 03:03 | you missed a great BTS in SW harbor
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| 03:03 | <mistik1> jammcq: So I hear :(
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| 03:05 | <jammcq> scotty and I just got home about 2 hours ago
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| 03:05 | had a great time, lots of driving
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| 03:05 | <mistik1> weekender, eh?
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| 03:06 | <jammcq> heh, more like 9 days for us
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| 03:06 | bts was just the tail end of it
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| 03:06 | <mistik1> I've been way too busy and far away this year
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| 03:06 | cool
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| 03:12 | <mistik1> jammcq: So what the verdict, Ochie next year? :)
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| 03:13 | <miks> Hyperbyte: Good advice. I think I'll go with Edubuntu 11.10 unless anyone has a reason has a good reason to hang back at 11.04. I just need to find a gconf tool that will let me lock things down. Can anyone tell me how to avoid having thin-clients boot up with Unity? I'd like to stick with the more classic gnome look if possible...
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| 03:14 | <jammcq> mistik1: we'll be back at SW Harbor, but we've also talked about additional dev sprints in other locations
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| 03:16 | <mistik1> nice
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| 04:14 | <mistik1> jammcq: Our little project is growing up bigtime :) http://www.corcyraglobal.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1320004133/0#5
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| 08:45 | <Hyperbyte> miks:
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| 08:45 | !classic-gnome
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| 08:45 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: classic-gnome: To set classic-gnome as the default session instead of Unity in Ubuntu >= 11.04, put LDM_XSESSION="gnome-session --session=classic-gnome" in lts.conf
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| 09:43 | <laurei> tst
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| 09:51 | <Hyperbyte> mhm
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| 11:21 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, hi! How's UDS? :)
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| 11:22 | <alkisg> Hey Hyperbyte - it's fun!
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| 11:22 | Lots of interesting topics + people
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| 11:22 | They even have a band in the evenings - I should have brought my guitar
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| 11:56 | <andygraybeal> wazzzap?
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| 12:10 | <cliebow_> jammcq: if you talk to sbalneav i have his "Scotsman" story for him to review before i release it..
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| 12:20 | <jammcq> cliebow_: hey
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| 12:20 | I saw the email, but the link didn't work
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| 12:30 | <alkisg> stgraber: Good morning. :)
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| 12:30 | epoptes-client connects to "localhost" for thin client user sessions, and to "server" for all other cases. That "server" hostname can be overriden from /etc/default/epoptes-client.
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| 12:30 | Idea: I can make epoptes-client.postinst connect to that hostname, and ask the epoptes daemon for the server certificate, and store it locally in /etc/epoptes/server.crt.
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| 12:30 | That would completely automate the certificate transfer for most common cases (thin, fat, standalone clients), and since it calls a specific DNS name and only on postinst, it should be acceptable security-wise, right?
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| 12:31 | <jammcq> alkisg: HEY !
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| 12:31 | <alkisg> Hi Jim, how are you :)
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| 12:31 | * alkisg is missing all the lobster fun already | |
| 12:33 | <jammcq> I'm great. Are you enjoying Orlando ?
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| 12:33 | <alkisg> Yup, although I haven't seen anything outside the hotel yet
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| 12:38 | <cliebow_> jammcq: yeah..Gadi mentioned getting the ok feom Scottie..
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| 12:39 | <jammcq> ah
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| 12:39 | <alkisg> Meh it's a nice story and the one filming the video has all the copyrights anyway :P
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| 12:39 | <jammcq> I'll talk to him when we get to my office
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| 12:41 | <cliebow_> can i open it long enough for you to get aq copy?
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| 12:42 | <jammcq> we're just leaving my house right now. I'll be back online when we get to my office
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| 12:42 | <cliebow_> ok..holler and ill change perms on it
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| 13:18 | <fellowEntx> Good morning
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| 13:18 | <mgariepy> good morning
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| 13:18 | <fellowEntx> Is there any way to specify the thin client name in the lts.conf? I'm using ltsp w/ windows dhcp; the client ends up with ltsp618, I'd like to change it
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| 13:23 | <Gadi> fellowEntx: you can do it several different ways. One way is in lts.conf. Create a section for the thin client by MAC address and specify HOSTNAME=foo
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| 13:24 | alternatively, I believe if you make a dhcp reservation and pass the hostname by dhcp, that should work, too
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| 13:25 | also, we have an lts.conf param that creates a dynamic hostname based upon MAC address rather than IP
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| 13:25 | I believe it is HOSTNAME_MAC=True or some such, but I have to check
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| 13:25 | <fellowEntx> Thanks Gadi, I'm currently using a reservation in dhcp as "unitXXX" but on the terminal server it shows the ltspXXX,
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| 13:25 | trying the HOSTNAME=unitxxx now
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| 13:26 | <cliebow_> worked like a champ in 4.2..i had such wierd hardware i had to specify all sorts of stuiff that wau
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| 13:27 | <Gadi> fellowEntx: if all you want to do is change the prefic, you can set HOSTNAME_BASE = unit in lts.conf
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| 13:27 | ah, and HOSTNAME_EXTRA=mac would adjust the dynamic part to be MAC address
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| 13:28 | <Gadi> !s
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| 13:28 | <ltsp> Gadi: s: Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 13:28 | <alkisg> fellowEntx: note that if you use HOSTNAME=xxx, that doesn't mean that you'll be able to ping it, it doesn't automatically update DNS. Making the dhcp/dns combo work is usually better.
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| 13:28 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 13:28 | Hello Gadi!
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| 13:28 | <alkisg> Heya Scotty
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| 13:28 | <sbalneav> Hey hey alkisg!
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| 13:28 | <fellowEntx> Morning
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| 13:28 | HOSTNAME=X worked perfect, thank you again
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| 13:29 | <cliebow_> sbalneav, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 13:29 | <sbalneav> Got a full day of hacking ahead, got the autoconf infrastructure set up last night, libnss-sshsock, here I come.
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| 13:29 | <cliebow_> can i give you link to this m4v i made for you to look at?
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| 13:29 | <sbalneav> cliebow_: Hey Chuck, yeah, go ahead and post the video.
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| 13:29 | <cliebow_> coming at you
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| 13:29 | <Gadi> I've got videos, too
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| 13:29 | :)
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| 13:31 | <sbalneav> Post 'em if you like. I didn't say anything that I wouldn't gladly tell to a room full of people. Oh, wait, I *DID* tell them to a room full of people :)
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| 13:31 | <cliebow_> http://169.244.3.137/scotsman.m4v
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| 13:32 | * Gadi works on making the drinking song go viral | |
| 13:32 | <cliebow_> weee!!
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| 13:33 | from ther you can do as you like with it..prob a better way thaan i haqve
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| 13:34 | I ll pull out a couple more as time allows
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| 13:37 | <cliebow_> i think it worked pretty well for an afterthought
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| 13:38 | <sbalneav> Heh, other than the fact that I was hammered enough that I kept slipping into the scottish accent for the Girl as well as the stranded Scotsman, the joke went pretty well.
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| 13:38 | <cliebow_> it rocked here..the it crowd here enjoyed it in spades
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| 13:39 | <sbalneav> By that time in the evening, it was requring staggeringly large amounts of concentration not to slurr my words :)
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| 13:39 | <Gadi> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obozUwkK3Xw
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| 13:39 | ;)
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| 13:40 | <sbalneav> Another winner.
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| 13:40 | Ragnar quit after only one "Drikke yay!"
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| 13:40 | There's supposed to be 3
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| 13:41 | <Gadi> we all know you're the truer Norwegian ;)
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| 14:09 | <cliebow> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7szJXyXJS8U
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| 14:33 | <Gadi> did my email to ltsp-devel make it through re: moving configure_sound_volume to udev?
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| 14:35 | anyone?
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| 14:35 | Beuller?
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| 14:35 | <alkisg> Gadi: I don't see it
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| 14:36 | <Gadi> ok, I will try to resend
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| 14:37 | <alkisg> Gadi: did you use html?
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| 14:37 | If so, it needs to be moderated, I think. (by Scotty?)
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| 14:38 | <Gadi> I don't think I did, but I never remember which of my user accounts is the one subscribed, so I prolly sent it under the wrong one
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| 14:38 | I just resent
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| 14:38 | hopefully this one makes it
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| 14:39 | <jammcq> there's nothing pending
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| 14:39 | in the ltsp-developer mail queue
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| 14:39 | also, we no longer reject html mail
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| 14:40 | <Gadi> hmm...
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| 14:40 | <jammcq> also, in the archives, there's been no messages today
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| 14:40 | <alkisg> Gadi: are you sure you're using the correct email address?
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| 14:40 | <Gadi> ltsp-developer@lists.sourceforge.net
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| 14:41 | right?
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| 14:41 | <alkisg> right
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| 14:41 | Maybe an SF problem, then...
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| 14:41 | <jammcq> in fact, we haven't seen any emails on that list since Oct 19th
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| 14:42 | Gadi: could you try one more time?
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| 14:44 | <pscheie> morning all
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| 14:44 | <mgariepy> good morning pscheie
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| 14:44 | <pscheie> hi there mgariepy
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| 14:44 | did you make it back to home okay?
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| 14:44 | <alkisg> Good morning pscheie
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| 14:45 | <pscheie> hi alkisg! Are you warm & sunny now?
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| 14:45 | <jammcq> mgariepy: did you notice the slippery roads heading to Bangor?
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| 14:45 | <mgariepy> yeah from swhb to bangor jonathan was driving
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| 14:45 | <alkisg> pscheie: yup, Orlando is much warmer than the Maine snow :)
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| 14:45 | <mgariepy> from bangor to sherbrooke the road was ok,
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| 14:47 | <pscheie> alkisg, highvoltage, stgraber, how are things at UDS? Any noteworthy developments?
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| 14:48 | <Gadi> jammcq: just resent
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| 14:48 | <alkisg> The noteworthy development doesn't come from UDS, but from sbalneav :)
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| 14:48 | libnss :)
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| 14:53 | <jammcq> hmm, I'm not seeing anything getting into the ltsp-developer list
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| 14:54 | <sbalneav> I've just got a test suite going. I'll make pushes hourly so you can see my progress...
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| 14:54 | <Gadi> hmm...
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| 14:55 | well, for all those who are here, I want to move configure_sound_volume to udev (from the init scripts)
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| 14:55 | this will cause a change in the packaging
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| 14:55 | <sbalneav> lp:~sbalneav/ltsp/libnss_sshsock
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| 14:55 | <Gadi> so, I wanted to clear it with the distro pkg maintainers first
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| 14:55 | <sbalneav> It's working, but I'm getting the wrong result code:
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| 14:56 | <jammcq> hey, just got Gadi's message on ltsp-developer
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| 14:56 | <sbalneav> sbalneav@eris:~/Source/libnss-sshsock/test$ ./testnsslib
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| 14:56 | getpwnam
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| 14:56 | NSS_STATUS_TRYAGAIN
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| 14:56 | pw_name -> sbalneav
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| 14:56 | pw_passwd -> x
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| 14:56 | pw_uid -> 1111
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| 14:56 | pw_gid -> 1111
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| 14:56 | pw_gecos -> Scott Balneaves,,,
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| 14:56 | pw_dir -> /home/sbalneav
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| 14:56 | pw_shell -> /bin/bash
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| 14:56 | it got that pw information over the ssh socket.
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| 14:59 | <highvoltage> pscheie: so far so good, no big flamewars yet :) (which is really good for 12.04)
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| 15:05 | <Gadi> pscheie: can you pastebin the contents of /lib/udev/rules.d/60-persistent-alsa.rules on your centos box when you have a chance?
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| 15:08 | * Gadi notices that the udev rule on ubuntu to set volume levels on boot runs in the background, which may actually cause a race condition if I have another rule to set volume in udev .... grrr.... | |
| 15:08 | <pscheie> Gadi, my ltsp stuff is on my laptop at home, but I've got a Centos 6 system here at work, but no ltsp installed.
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| 15:08 | Will that suffice?
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| 15:08 | <Gadi> pscheie: yeah, that's fine
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| 15:08 | <pscheie> ok, hang on...
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| 15:08 | <alkisg> Gadi: http://paste.ubuntu.com/725401/
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| 15:08 | (for your collection :P)
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| 15:09 | <Gadi> :)
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| 15:09 | ah, so fedora doesn't set sound out of udev
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| 15:10 | I guess they set it in an init script
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| 15:10 | <cliebow> mgarieoy:so you picked the guy from South Africa to do the snow driving 8~)
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| 15:11 | <pscheie> Gadi, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/725402/
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| 15:11 | <Gadi> thx
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| 15:11 | <pscheie> Strictly speaking, that's from my SL6.1 box, but it should be the same as Centos.
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| 15:11 | <alkisg> Gadi, so the goal is to add an udev rule that will call your script as soon as the card is detected, and then your script would call amixer to set the volume AND save the state?
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| 15:12 | <Gadi> yeah, thats fine. Is there something in /etc/init.d/*alsa* or /etc/init/*alsa* ?
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| 15:12 | <pscheie> Gadi, no.
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| 15:12 | <Gadi> alkisg: well, our configure_sound_volume right now only calls amixer to set things and runs out of an init script
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| 15:13 | this is distro-agnostic
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| 15:13 | <Gadi> but, I would like to get it out of the init script
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| 15:13 | <alkisg> Gadi: is it? what if the distro init script overrides the volume after we set it?
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| 15:13 | <Gadi> both to avoid race conditions, AND to eliminate a special init script
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| 15:13 | <alkisg> (or udev script, or whatever the distro uses)
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| 15:13 | <Gadi> right
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| 15:14 | well, that's the issue
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| 15:14 | seems ubuntu/debian set volume from udev
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| 15:14 | <alkisg> I mean, apart from setting the sound volume, we also need to notify the distro tool, and one way to do it is to save the volume (if that's what the distro uses)
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| 15:14 | <Gadi> but fedora/redhat may set it from init
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| 15:14 | right
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| 15:14 | so...
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| 15:15 | we could wait until the sound card is ready and then run our script and store it
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| 15:15 | <alkisg> Right
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| 15:15 | <Gadi> but, udev fires when the device comes up
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| 15:15 | <alkisg> But again we need distro specific code, if the "save" mechanism is different
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| 15:16 | <Gadi> that ANS we need to make sure we can do it at the appropriate time
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| 15:16 | *AND
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| 15:16 | <alkisg> E.g. `find /var -name '*alsa*'` is empty on Fedora 13
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| 15:16 | <Gadi> right
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| 15:16 | <alkisg> So maybe they don't save the volume at all (at least until newer versions)
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| 15:16 | <Gadi> how about ls /etc/init.d/*alsa*
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| 15:16 | <alkisg> Empty too
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| 15:16 | <Gadi> and /etc/init/*alsa*
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| 15:17 | <alkisg> $ find /etc/ -name '*alsa*' 2>/dev/null
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| 15:17 | /etc/modprobe.d/dist-alsa.conf
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| 15:17 | /etc/makedev.d/01alsa
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| 15:17 | <Gadi> not sure if that sets the volume, tho
| |
| 15:17 | or just makes the dev
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| 15:17 | <alkisg> I don't think it does
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| 15:18 | So maybe f13 doesn't save/restore the system sound volume?
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| 15:18 | And only does that per user?
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| 15:18 | <Gadi> maybe
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| 15:18 | <alkisg> In any case I think we can ignore that, and leave it up to the distro maintainer to implement the "save volume" part
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| 15:19 | <Gadi> well, only if our script will continue to change the sound last
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| 15:19 | if we are going to change the sound first and then store it so a later script can restore it
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| 15:19 | (which sounds funny)
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| 15:19 | then, we would have to store
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| 15:20 | <alkisg> Hmmm we can also just delete the service that restores the volume
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| 15:20 | So we don't have to save the volume then
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| 15:20 | <Gadi> if we ARE going to set sound last, then I think we need to override the stock udev script that sets the volume on ubuntu and replace with our own
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| 15:20 | right
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| 15:21 | in Ubuntu it is a udev script
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| 15:21 | in another distro, it may be an init script
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| 15:21 | <alkisg> What's that? /etc/init.d/alsa-mixer-save
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| 15:21 | It's a broken symlink in my system...
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| 15:21 | <Gadi> yeah, that stores it
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| 15:21 | and it is upstart-ified
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| 15:21 | so, /etc/init/alsa-mixer-save.conf
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| 15:22 | <alkisg> OK. We'll need a method to prevent services on boot anyway
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| 15:22 | So we may as well disable that by default
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| 15:23 | <Gadi> that one is harmless
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| 15:23 | <alkisg> (and currently we do it in Ubuntu with RC_WHITELIST)
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| 15:23 | <Gadi> it stores on shutdown
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| 15:23 | <alkisg> Ah, ok, let's see the udev one...
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| 15:23 | <Gadi> what we care about is the udev rule that restores
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| 15:23 | because it also sets "sane" volume levels
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| 15:23 | so, it is setting levels and we are setting levels
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| 15:24 | not sure if stgraber will appreciate a dpkg-divert
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| 15:24 | :)
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| 15:24 | <alkisg> You can override udev rules from /etc
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| 15:25 | $ cat /lib/udev/rules.d/80-alsa.rules
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| 15:25 | KERNEL=="controlC[0-7]", ACTION=="add", RUN+="/lib/udev/alsa-utils"
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| 15:25 | You're talking about that one, right?
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| 15:25 | <Gadi> yeah look at that script
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| 15:25 | /lib/udev/alsa-utils
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| 15:25 | it basically sets the volumes in the background
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| 15:26 | <alkisg> weird syntax :D
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| 15:27 | And you basically want to allow it to run, and just run your script after that, right?
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| 15:28 | <Gadi> right - but since this one is backgrounded, I think the two scripts would race
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| 15:28 | so, we may need to replace it
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| 15:28 | <alkisg> we can do that in the initramfs too, with various ways
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| 15:29 | Either override the whole udev rule from /etc/, or move files around
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| 15:29 | <Gadi> ah, I see what you mean. Just drop ours in /etc/udev/rules.d/80-alsa.rules
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| 15:30 | <alkisg> Yes, but I just thought of something else too
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| 15:30 | KERNEL=="controlC[0-7]", ACTION=="add", RUN+="/lib/udev/alsa-utils"
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| 15:30 | => put one of ours in 88-
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| 15:30 | and instead of *adding* to RUN, to replace it with a script of ours
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| 15:30 | RUN="...ltsp/our-alsa-utils"
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| 15:31 | <Gadi> ah!
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| 15:31 | that's a good idea
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| 15:33 | ok bbiab
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| 16:00 | <sbalneav> NSS_SSHSOCK_SOCKET=/tmp/lasock
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| 16:00 | NSS_SSHSOCK_HOST=205.200.162.13
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| 16:00 | sbalneav@eris:~/Source/libnss-sshsock/test$ grep sshsock /etc/nsswitch.conf
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| 16:00 | passwd: compat sshsock
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| 16:01 | sbalneav@eris:~/Source/libnss-sshsock/test$ grep scbalvpn /etc/passwd
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| 16:01 | sbalneav@eris:~/Source/libnss-sshsock/test$
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| 16:01 | sbalneav@eris:~/Source/libnss-sshsock/test$ getent passwd scbalvpn
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| 16:01 | scbalvpn:x:1001:1001:Scott Balneaves VPN,,,:/home/scbalvpn:/bin/bash
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| 16:01 | It got that passwd entry over the ssh socket.
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| 16:01 | <mgariepy> great :D
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| 16:02 | <sbalneav> VERY buggy, NO error testing, but...
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| 16:02 | working.
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| 16:02 | I'll debug passwd completely, then implement group.
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| 16:02 | committing and pushing.
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| 16:12 | <cliebow> sbalneav, you Rock!
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| 18:02 | <Mip5> Afternoon folks - I have a script that I'd like to run when ltsp clients logout. I have the script in their home directory, and have it set to be run from .bash_logout, but I can't seem to get .bash_logout to run when they logout. What's the best way to make this happen? LTSP server is running Lucid 10.04.3.
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| 18:07 | <Gadi> Mip5: you want it to run on the client or the server?
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| 18:11 | <alkisg> vagrantc: Hi! Idea: when epoptes-client gets installed in the chroot, postinst can connect to epoptes daemon at localhost:569 and get the server certificate from there. That's acceptable, security-wise, right?
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| 18:12 | But on the other hand, on standalone clients, it's not acceptable to connect to server:569, correct?
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| 18:12 | !xexit | echo Mip5:
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| 18:12 | <ltsp> Mip5: xexit: Instead of gnome-watchdog one can use xexit, which is a similar (but better!) tool written by an LTSP developer: http://www.opinsys.fi/en/killing-user-processes-with-xexit-on-ltsp-servers
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| 18:14 | <Mip5> Gadi: the script deletes some prefs that client users like to mess around with. The prefs get restored when the next client logs in, which works great on stand alone desktops in our labs. I'm trying recreate this for our thin clients.
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| 18:15 | Gadi: I'll take a look at xexit.
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| 18:16 | <alkisg> Mip5: why not do it on login for thin clients too then?
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| 18:17 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i'm not sure about postinst making network connections ... i'll have to look into it.
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| 18:17 | alkisg: found a few undeclared dependencies...
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| 18:18 | <alkisg> Which one(s)?
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| 18:18 | <Mip5> alkisg: The script only needs to run once, as once the prefs are gone, they are automagically recreated when the client logs in.
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| 18:18 | <alkisg> vagrantc: Btw, we're considering switching from vinagre to remmina, it looks more maintained + has less dependencies
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| 18:18 | <vagrantc> alkisg: you can check my branch at: bzr get http://anonscm.debian.org/bzr/users/vagrant/epoptes/epoptes/
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| 18:19 | <alkisg> Ty
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| 18:19 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i'm not attached to vinagre ...
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| 18:20 | <alkisg> Mip5: what I'm asking is, why do you need to run something on logout, instead of always running it on login
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| 18:20 | * vagrantc wanders off | |
| 18:22 | <matrix3000> what would cause a specific pc to get a boot: _ after the pxe screen
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| 18:22 | <cliebow> vagrantc: ca n you shoot me that mac netboot stuff we talked about at bts?
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| 18:22 | <Gadi> alkisg: did Marc Andre present FreeRDP yet?
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| 18:23 | <alkisg> Gadi: yup, we're now on the next session, he's sitting right beside me if you have any questions :D
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| 18:23 | <Mip5> alkisg: I could easily have the script run on login; that would be fine. Does it make a difference? Would it be implemented differently?
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| 18:23 | <alkisg> matrix3000: if you press enter on that, does it then boot?
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| 18:24 | <Gadi> alkisg: I don't think he knows me from a fly on the wall, but you can say hi and give him a pat on the back from me
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| 18:24 | :)
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| 18:24 | <alkisg> Done :)
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| 18:24 | Mip5: The difference it makes is that login scripts are guaranteed to be executed, while logout scripts, not
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| 18:25 | <Mip5> alkisg: Ah! Nice - where should I put it then?
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| 18:26 | <alkisg> Mip5: here's an example: http://www.mail-archive.com/ltsp-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net/msg39777.html
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| 18:27 | <Gadi> that's an example in the chroot. You can also put it on the server in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/
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| 18:27 | <alkisg> Or in pam_exec
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| 18:27 | <Gadi> or as an autostart script
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| 18:28 | <alkisg> Autostart is too late for applying settings, gconf etc is already running
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| 18:28 | <Gadi> true
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| 18:28 | <awakecoding> Hi
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| 18:28 | I'm marc-andre from the FreeRDP project
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| 18:29 | <alkisg> Gadi: here's your chance ;)
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| 18:29 | <cliebow> hello!!!
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| 18:29 | <Gadi> :)
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| 18:29 | awakecoding: welcome. a virtual pat on the back to go with the real one
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| 18:29 | :)
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| 18:29 | <alkisg> Marc was unhappy that we people are using freerdp etc but never stopped by their mailing list to say thanks!
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| 18:29 | <awakecoding> Lol, no worries
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| 18:29 | * Gadi has said thanks. :) | |
| 18:30 | <awakecoding> I just didnt know until today that you guys were using freerdp
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| 18:30 | <Gadi> but, not SO many LTSPers using RDP
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| 18:30 | * alkisg also said thanks, especially for the keyboard layout code - I never got greek working properly in rdesktop | |
| 18:30 | <Gadi> as jammcq likes to tell me, the 'L' in LTSP is for....
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| 18:30 | ;)
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| 18:30 | <awakecoding> Not surprised, theres no good rdp server yet for linux
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| 18:31 | But id like to find more people who want to work on freerdp as a server
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| 18:31 | <alkisg> Gadi, you'd be surprised, I know many schools in Greece which use freerdp to connect to win VMs from LTSP clients...
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| 18:31 | <awakecoding> Which, if developed, would beat hands down other solutions
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| 18:32 | Take a look at screenshot #5 on freerdp.com
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| 18:32 | <Gadi> we could definitely use a better-performing remoting protocol moving forward
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| 18:32 | <cliebow> alkisg:isnt that a licensing nightmare?
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| 18:32 | <alkisg> cliebow: with the crisis we have real nightmares, so teachers here don't worry much about licenses :P
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| 18:32 | <awakecoding> Haha
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| 18:33 | <alkisg> But no, some usual TS CALs should suffice, I think
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| 18:33 | <awakecoding> There's always the thinstuff rdp server to reduce licensing costs on the server side
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| 18:33 | * cliebow cliebow googles | |
| 18:33 | <awakecoding> Alkisg: there's more to it... You need a special license of office for installation on a terminal server
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| 18:34 | <alkisg> True, but OK we can use openoffice instead
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| 18:34 | <awakecoding> Unless you're using the thinstuff server
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| 18:34 | True, i heard of a case where they switched to openoffice for that exact reason
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| 18:35 | <awakecoding> Obviously the best solution on the long term would be a good freerdp server
| |
| 18:35 | <alkisg> I've been glancing at the thinstuff.com site before, but I thought they didn't offer a legitimate solution, MS-license-wise... how do they work around the licensing issues?
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| 18:36 | <awakecoding> Or even more fucked up: a freerdp server serving individual applications on wine
| |
| 18:36 | <cliebow> anyone remember fabian franz and the "Happy Packet Dance" in Montreal?
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| 18:36 | <Gadi> A linux-based end-to-end rdp solution with multimedia acceleration and remotefx might be a neat way to improve thin client performance above X
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| 18:36 | <awakecoding> Alkisg: don't worry, ms hates them, but cant do anything about it
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| 18:36 | <Gadi> or NX
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| 18:36 | <alkisg> :D
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| 18:38 | <awakecoding> Alkisg: i dont fully understand it, but the law does not make thinstuff illegal. It's not a crack, but added features on top of the built-in rdp server
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| 18:39 | <awakecoding> The thing is that ms wants you to buy certain licenses of windows to get certain features, but nothing prevents someone from adding those features in editions where they werent
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| 18:40 | <Gadi> awakecoding: how was your talk received at UDS?
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| 18:40 | <awakecoding> Well received
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| 18:41 | <Gadi> excellent
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| 18:41 | <awakecoding> People are excited i think
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| 18:41 | <Gadi> I think freerdp is one of those projects that anyone who looks at it gets excited
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| 18:41 | :)
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| 18:41 | <alkisg> I don't think you'll find anyone complaining about the rdesktop => freerdp move
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| 18:41 | <awakecoding> But i think we need more than excitement, we need more developers
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| 18:42 | Looking for people actually against the move to freerdp might be hard :p
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| 18:42 | <Gadi> well, I have been saying for years that it would be nice for LTSP to attack the remoting protocol issue
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| 18:42 | and not just rely on hacking around what is out there
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| 18:42 | * vagrantc reminds vagrantc to switch to prefer freerdp in the next Debian upload | |
| 18:42 | <Gadi> maybe a freerdp server is a way to do that
| |
| 18:43 | <awakecoding> Come work with us, if we have people working on the server you will control both the client and server implementations
| |
| 18:43 | And have a much better solution than anything else that currently exists as oss
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| 18:43 | <vagrantc> awakecoding: does otavio salvador contribute to freerdp?
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| 18:43 | <awakecoding> Yes, he has been there since two years ago i think
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| 18:43 | <cliebow> vagrantc:send me that mac netboot stuff?
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| 18:44 | <awakecoding> One of the first to join after the founders
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| 18:44 | <vagrantc> cliebow: ah, yes. sorry. it's spread across three servers and i only half understand it
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| 18:44 | <cliebow> that scares me..but ive had it working in powerpc
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| 18:44 | <vagrantc> awakecoding: i thought so. he did a bunch of work with LTSP for a while
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| 18:44 | <awakecoding> I didnt know, but it makes sense
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| 18:45 | I havent been watching ltsp at all
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| 18:45 | <alkisg> cliebow: I've no idea if that helps you, but here's a link that someone here updated recently: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/PowerPC
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| 18:46 | <Gadi> awakecoding: has ubuntu assigned someone to package freerdp for the distro?
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| 18:46 | is that otavio still?
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| 18:47 | <cliebow> it could alkisg..most her is now intel..but there are still some relics
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| 18:47 | <awakecoding> Otavio is a debian dev
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| 18:47 | There
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| 18:47 | There is someone at canonical assigned
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| 18:49 | <vagrantc> yeah, otavio's the maintainer of the freerdp packages in debian
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| 18:49 | <cliebow> alkisg:yeah that has the old magic vendor encapsulated options i stumbled on
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| 18:49 | <Gadi> ah. I guess in the past, ubuntu just sync'd from debian
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| 18:49 | <alkisg> Nice
| |
| 18:52 | (unrelated question) so how do I "install" a printer in a thin client, so that any student in the class can print to that? Just put PRINTER_0_DEVICE=/dev/usblp0 and I'm done?
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| 18:53 | <awakecoding> Do you think there would be ltsp devs interested in undertaking the implementation of a good linux rdp server to be used in ltsp?
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| 18:54 | <Gadi> alkisg: that will start jetpipe, then you need to set up the print queue on the server to point to the thin client port 9100
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| 18:55 | <alkisg> Gadi, go on... :D
| |
| 18:55 | * alkisg wasn't around in the lpq days | |
| 18:55 | <Gadi> alkisg: hehe
| |
| 18:55 | alkisg: so, jetpipe basically turns the device into a jetdirect-type printer
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| 18:55 | so, once you have that in lts.conf,
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| 18:55 | you should:
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| 18:55 | <cliebow> awakecoding, arent too many capable of putting it together..i know i am not
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| 18:56 | <Gadi> 1. Make sure that the IP/hostname of the client is fixed
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| 18:56 | 2. Create a server-side print queue pointed at: <ip>:9100
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| 18:56 | done
| |
| 18:56 | * alkisg googles for (2)... | |
| 18:56 | <Gadi> you can do that through the gui
| |
| 18:56 | <alkisg> Ah
| |
| 18:56 | <Gadi> or by commandline with lpadmin
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| 18:58 | awakecoding: is Jay Sorg still working on that?
| |
| 18:58 | * Gadi was under the impression that he was | |
| 19:00 | <awakecoding> Gadi: jay's working on xrdp, but we should base a new server-side implementation on freerdp
| |
| 19:00 | The new libfreerdp-core can be used both as a client and server
| |
| 19:00 | <alkisg> Gadi: so I just run /usr/share/system-config-printer/system-config-printer.py and just put the IP in "Appsocket/HP JetDirect"?
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| 19:00 | <Gadi> alkisg: I guess that's one way to do it
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| 19:00 | :)
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| 19:01 | <alkisg> Cool, ty
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| 19:02 | <Gadi> awakecoding: my guess is that by the time freerdp 1.0 is nice and shiny, it may coincide with our efforts here on a new and shiny ltsp 6. With those two as solid foundations, it might make sense to turn some attention towards the protocol
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| 19:02 | but, of course that's just me talking
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| 19:02 | :)
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| 19:03 | <alkisg> (session change...)
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| 19:16 | <Hyperbyte> LTSP 6!
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| 19:16 | * Hyperbyte drools | |
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| 19:17 | <pscheie> What is in mind for ltsp 6?
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| 19:17 | * cliebow cliebow needs to listen | |
| 19:19 | <vagrantc> total world domination, what else?
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| 19:19 | <Gadi> naturally
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| 19:20 | <vagrantc> cliebow: maybe drop by #freegeek and ask Epitrope about our ppc setups ... he's the one who engineered it
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| 19:20 | <pscheie> I thought we'd already achieved that, at least in terms of "who has the coolest, most efficient implementation".
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| 19:20 | * vagrantc is not so sure | |
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| 19:22 | <cliebow> very good!
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| 19:23 | <pscheie> Well, the coolest, most efficient implementation compared to all others.
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| 19:28 | <matrix3000> Anyone know why i would get a Boot: _ after a pxe boot
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| 19:28 | it tells me to select a boot image
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| 19:28 | only on a few computers though
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| 19:33 | <mgariepy> matrix3000, are you booting from the same server?
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| 19:34 | <matrix3000> yse
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| 19:34 | yes
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| 19:34 | <mgariepy> you might have some configuration file in pxelinux.cfg for some clients then
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| 19:35 | <matrix3000> it's the stock
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| 19:36 | <mgariepy> can you ls the content of the /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg directory ?
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| 19:36 | <matrix3000> yea one sec
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| 19:37 | default
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| 19:37 | <alkisg> (08:23:41 μμ) alkisg: matrix3000: if you press enter on that, does it then boot?
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| 19:37 | <matrix3000> from scrathc?
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| 19:37 | if there is nothing entered the boot it will not boot
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| 19:38 | you are saying type in pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 19:38 | into that field?
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| 19:38 | <alkisg> If you enter nothing, but press the enter key
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| 19:38 | No, in the client prompt
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| 19:38 | Boot: _ [Enter]
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| 19:38 | <mgariepy> can you paste the dhcp configuiration ?
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| 19:39 | maybe you have a different filename dhcp value for some client.
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| 19:39 | <matrix3000> yea it doesn't boot it just brings up another boot line
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| 19:39 | yea one sec
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| 19:40 | <alkisg> And you get no messages at all between the first boot line and the second one, after you've pressed enter? Doesn't it try to load the kernel inbetween?
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| 19:40 | <matrix3000> i do
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| 19:40 | i get a whole pxe screen
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| 19:40 | let me post the picture of the scree
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| 19:40 | screen
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| 19:41 | <alkisg> So you get Boot: _ [Enter]
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| 19:41 | => a whole lot of messages *after* that
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| 19:41 | => and again Boot: _ ?
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| 19:42 | <matrix3000> no, just a whole lot of messages
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| 19:42 | just one second
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| 19:42 | ill post the pictuer of what i see
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| 19:43 | <fellowEntx> *hopes he sees boobs
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| 19:45 | <markit> fellowEntx: I would not hold my breath ;P
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| 19:48 | <cliebow> fellowEntx, heh wrong channel for that
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| 19:49 | 00
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| 19:49 | <fellowEntx> sorry, too much time in /r/gonewild...
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| 19:49 | <cliebow> this channel is rated i..
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| 19:49 | immature audiences only
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| 19:53 | <alkisg> Gadi: about r1946, shouldn't that be implemented as `chroot $rootmnt /usr/share/ltsp/initramfs-hook` instead?
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| 19:54 | (maybe with a more generic name, not specific to initramfs)
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| 19:54 | And then we just put distro-specific plugins for each services we want to delete, settings we want to modify, etc etc
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| 19:55 | In /usr/share/ltsp/boot-plugins/distro or something
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| 19:55 | <Gadi> alkisg: ultimately, that code will be moved out of there again, once we implement what we talked about in Maine
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| 19:56 | with the initramfs calling a rootfs-plugin script
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| 19:56 | but, that needs to be implemented first
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| 19:56 | <alkisg> Ah, I thought it'd be better if we put the hook first, and started moving things later
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| 19:56 | <Gadi> well, I am anxious to get things going
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| 19:56 | :)
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| 19:56 | <alkisg> Me too, and if you create the hook, I'll start moving stuff too :D
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| 19:57 | <Gadi> fair enough. I just was wary about making the hook, but we should just do it
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| 19:58 | <alkisg> The hook itself wouldn't hurt at all
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| 19:58 | Now, actually moving stuff from build-client to initramfs may, or may not, hurt
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| 19:58 | <Gadi> well, it will hurt if stephane doesn't package it
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| 19:58 | but, we can just make sure he does
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| 19:58 | :)
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| 19:59 | otherwise, lots of stuff will break
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| 19:59 | so, shall we put it in init-bottom?
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| 20:01 | <alkisg> init-bottom sounds good. But yeah, we'd better ask the maintainers about their packaging intentions... :)
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| 20:01 | <vagrantc> my intentions are good
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| 20:01 | <alkisg> :D
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| 20:02 | * Gadi wants to push his configure_sound_volume changes first | |
| 20:02 | <alkisg> In any case, moving stuff inside ltsp_nbd to avoid creating the hook doesn't sound modular to me
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| 20:02 | <Gadi> might as well break as much as possible
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| 20:02 | :)
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| 20:02 | its not modular at all
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| 20:02 | :)
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| 20:02 | <alkisg> Hehe, Gadi++
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| 20:04 | <Gadi> ok, with that out of the way, I can break other stuff
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| 20:04 | * Gadi is going to fear "bzr blame" | |
| 20:04 | <Gadi> :)
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| 20:05 | <cliebow> or bzr flame
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| 20:06 | <alkisg> Gadi: don't forget to bind-mount /proc and whatever else the plugins will need
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| 20:06 | Before chrooting to $rootmnt
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| 20:07 | <Gadi> yup yup
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| 20:09 | <vagrantc> and the hackfest continues
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| 20:09 | <alkisg> Well gadi didn't get to code then, he had a management role :D
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| 20:10 | <jammcq> you should see Scotty. he's hacking like a crazy man all day today
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| 20:10 | <alkisg> Time for him to make up! Btw, I think that we have the "run_parts with distro overrides" code in ltsp-build-client somewhere... go go Gadi!
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| 20:27 | <ogra_> Gadi, 88-ltsp-sound ?
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| 20:27 | * ogra_ has a deja vu | |
| 20:27 | <ogra_> :)
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| 20:28 | <Gadi> so, I don't know that every distro needs to ship every other distros' plugins, so I don't think we need a distro directory
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| 20:28 | because then we have to check distro at boot time, too
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| 20:28 | easier for each distro to just adjust the initramfs-scripts.d/ dir as needed or make the scripts distro-agnostic
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| 20:31 | <alkisg> And in the source tree? Use distro/ dirs and symlinks?
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| 20:33 | <Gadi> ogra_: yeah, sound familiar?
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| 20:34 | <ogra_> i try to remember when we removed it ...
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| 20:34 | <ogra_> i know for sue i once added that file
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| 20:34 | *sure
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| 20:36 | <alkisg> Gadi, you're right, it doesn't make sense to have distro specific initramfs-scripts.d plugins in the ltsp-client package... a simple dir + run_parts should suffice
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| 20:36 | <Gadi> alkisg: I wish I knew more how other distros beyond debian/ubuntu would use it or differ
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| 20:37 | for now, I see mainly distro-agnostic scripts
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| 20:38 | <alkisg> I don't think that messing with services + settings will be distro-agnostic...
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| 20:38 | <Gadi> and/or distros that won't use it at all
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| 20:41 | <alkisg> Gadi, so in the source, we'd create e.g. client/initramfs-scripts.d/Debian/00-prepare-nfs-bind-mounts, and make a symlink for it in Ubuntu/00-prepare-nfs-bind-mounts?
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| 20:45 | <Gadi> alkisg: let me know what you think of that (just pushed)
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| 20:46 | hmm...
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| 20:46 | <alkisg> (Launchpad is processing new changes to this branch which will be available in a few minutes. Reload to see the changes. )
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| 20:46 | <Gadi> I guess that would be better
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| 20:47 | I didn't have the distro dirs in the source tree, but I should
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| 20:48 | let me change a few things
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| 20:51 | <Gadi> does "lsb_release -is" work on all distros?
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| 20:51 | * Gadi feels this getting messy | |
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| 20:52 | <alkisg> Why do you need to check the distro?
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| 20:52 | <vagrantc> lsb_release --id --short works pretty well, but --codename is really unreliable in my experience
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| 20:53 | <pscheie> Is lsb_release a command?
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| 20:54 | <Gadi> alkisg: I am just worried that we rely on the packagers putting the right things in the right places. I mean, suppose someone compiles from source
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| 20:54 | <vagrantc> pscheie: should be, in order to be an LSB compliant distro ...
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| 20:54 | <Gadi> vagrantc: any thoughts?
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| 20:55 | <vagrantc> Gadi: there's no way to "compile from source" for this part of the LTSP distro ... since it's so distro specific
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| 20:55 | <pscheie> No lsb_release command on my SL6 box
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| 20:55 | <vagrantc> pscheie: are there LSB packages you can install?
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| 20:56 | <alkisg> Gadi, 00-upstart => maybe put it to 50-upstart, so that e.g. 10-nfs-bind-mounts can make the file system writeable before the deletions
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| 20:56 | <Gadi> ok
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| 20:56 | yeah, and we need a 00-getltsconffile
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| 20:57 | <pscheie> vagrantc, yes, looks like there is a redhat-lsb package.
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| 20:57 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i like common, and distro-specific dirs ... but since it's an initramfs, you could specify the distro at initramfs build time
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| 20:57 | <alkisg> Gadi: doesn't ltsp_config do that?
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| 20:57 | <pscheie> not installed by default, however.
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| 20:57 | <vagrantc> Gadi: to save from having to have lsb_release working
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| 20:58 | <Gadi> so, should I have an /etc/ltsp/initramfs.conf where we put DISTRO=Ubuntu
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| 20:58 | or some such?
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| 20:58 | and source it
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| 20:58 | alkisg: ltsp_config *reads* lts.conf, but we need something that *fetches* lts.conf over tftp
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| 20:59 | alkisg: that way, we can use the stock nbd initramfs stuff
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| 20:59 | or use other methods
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| 20:59 | <alkisg> Gadi: then remove . /usr/share/ltsp/ltsp_config from client/initramfs-scripts, as lts.conf isn't yet fetched?
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| 20:59 | <Gadi> my thinking is that ltsp_nbd will go away, right?
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| 20:59 | alkisg: true
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| 20:59 | <alkisg> Not all of it
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| 20:59 | <Gadi> why not?
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| 20:59 | * vagrantc still isn't convinced mount --move will work reliably | |
| 21:00 | <Gadi> vagrantc: we currently use mount -move for cow
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| 21:00 | in ltsp_nbd
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| 21:00 | <alkisg> Gadi, ltsp_nbd is the "main" procedure that sources nfs-top etc
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| 21:00 | <vagrantc> Gadi: hmm.
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| 21:00 | <alkisg> If we remove that, we'd need to use the nbd initramfs script to mount nbd
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| 21:00 | And that doesn't handle all the udhcpc etc stuff we do now
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| 21:00 | <vagrantc> maybe i'm thinking older versions, and now everything should work again
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| 21:01 | <Gadi> alkisg: ok, so we just like how we mount nbd better than how upstream does
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| 21:01 | * vagrantc goes back to work... | |
| 21:01 | <Gadi> still, the non-mounting features should be indep of how the rootfs is mounted
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| 21:02 | <alkisg> Right, until we can send some patches to the nbd package
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| 21:02 | Yup
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| 21:02 | So ltsp_nbd might not go away soon, but it can certainly get smaller
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| 21:02 | bbiab, changing sessions..
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| 21:13 | <Mip5> Gadi: if you're still around, would xexit solution work to run a script that just deleted a few gnome prefs (.gnome2, .gconf, and .gconfd)?
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| 21:17 | <Gadi> just pushed some changes
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| 21:17 | Mip5: xexit can run any scripts when the X connection dies
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| 21:18 | bbiab
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| 21:19 | <Mip5> I'm not sure exactly how I'd modify it for my purposes based on the example you linked. If my accounts were enumerated names, eg. ltsp1, ltsp2.. ltsp25, and I wanted to delete a file called: junk.txt, what would it look like?
| |
| 21:20 | <Gadi> Mip5: xexit runs on the server and I believe runs as the user
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| 21:20 | Mip5: so, it should be able to rm $HOME/junk.txt
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| 21:22 | <Mip5> thanks - I'm still not sure how I'd adjust the script that was linked to here: http://www.mail-archive.com/ltsp-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net/msg39777.html - I'm not sure how to modify it for my command.
| |
| 21:23 | how would I edit $LDM_USERNAME? Just change the guest* to ltsp* (since all of my accounts start with that)?
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| 21:30 | <alkisg> So... can't `make install` handle $DISTRO instead of having the initramfs worry about $DISTRO?
| |
| 21:31 | And packages copy just copy common/* and e.g. Ubuntu/* to the initramfs-scripts.d dir
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| 21:34 | In any case that was a good start though! I'll move the network manager stuff there too
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| 21:39 | <Mip5> alkisg: should I install xexit into chroot environment if I want scripts to be run when thin clients logout? In general, I'm not sure how to adapt this app to my scenario
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| 21:42 | <sbalneav> Mip5: xexit's usually installed on the server.
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| 21:42 | unless you're running fatclients or the like.
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| 21:43 | \o/ libnss-sshsock's coming along QUITE nicely.
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| 21:43 | pushing the next version...
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| 21:43 | <Mip5> sbalneav: thanks. Well, I *am* running some fat clients for things like firefox and openoffice
| |
| 21:43 | <stgraber> sbalneav: libpam-sshauth is now in Ubuntu btw
| |
| 21:44 | <kusznir> Ok, more on my video-on-thin client issues: I've managed to identify the next big problem (which also confirms a suspicion I had that would delay deployment of the new server): My hardware has Intel 945GM chipsets in them, but X is using VESA driver even though the Intel driver is installed.
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| 21:44 | I'm not sure if this is a purely Ubuntu problem, or if its LTSP-related. On 9.10, it just used the intel driver.
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| 21:46 | <sbalneav> stgraber: Whoot
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| 21:46 | <kusznir> The master is in!
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| 21:48 | <Mip5> sbalneav: the actual script I'd like to run is a short script, and only deletes a few gnome pref files (panel settings and desktop changes). In this case would installing this on the server only be fine?
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| 21:53 | <sbalneav> If you're running gnome on the server and just running some localapps, that should be fine.
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| 22:00 | <matrix3000> alksig: sorry, had some work issues come up had to leave my desk
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| 22:01 | alkisg: sorry had some work issues come up had to leave my desk for a few
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| 22:01 | i have the pic just have to upload it
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| 22:04 | <kusznir> So how would I "force" ltsp to make X use a specific graphics driver that's already installed?
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| 22:04 | (I've got intel 945GM graphics, and ubuntu/ltsp 11.04 insists on using vesa)
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| 22:05 | (and the intel driver/module is installed)
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| 22:07 | <alkisg> matrix3000: ok, you can use imagebin.org for that
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| 22:12 | <kusznir> Actually, I think I may have realized part of why I'm having my problem. In order to get ltsp to boot (last week's problem), I had to add acpi=off, nolapic. the problem was occuring at the point the console font was set. Once I set those boot options, I was able to boot, but perhaps that's now preventing the auto-detection of the proper video card?
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| 22:13 | Anyway, I suspect this is more of an OS and less of an LTSP problem. So far I haven't had any luck over on #ubuntu.
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| 22:13 | <Mip5> alkisg: I installed xexit on the server (not thin clients), and put my script in /etc/Xexit.d/ but it's not working (gnome prefs aren't getting deleted). Any ideas? The script is executable.
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| 22:14 | alkisg: I log in as a student, make some changes to the desktop or panels, logout, and then log back in. My changes are still there - but I hoped that my settings would return to default.
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| 22:14 | <alkisg> Mip5: I haven't used xexit, I don't know how it's used. You can also use pam_exec or xsession.d or autoexec
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| 22:15 | None of those are ltsp-specific; you're just looking for a method to run things on login
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| 22:20 | <matrix3000> http://ubuntuone.com/3yNKS46UJYgdeCrib6fLGW
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| 22:20 | thats teh ppicture
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| 22:21 | <Mip5> alkisg: So, if I wanted to run a script that deleted some gnome prefs, I could put that script into the xsession.d/ and then it would run as the user so for example, rm -rf $HOME/.gnome2 work would for each user whenever they logged in?
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| 22:22 | <matrix3000> alkisg: http://ubuntuone.com/3yNKS46UJYgdeCrib6fLGW
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| 22:30 | <Mip5> okay - thanks gang, I'll have to hit it again tomorrow. G'night!
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| 22:57 | <matrix3000> anyone here upgrade an LTSP server yet from 11.04 to 11.10
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| 23:57 | <kusznir> Got it working (dual-head and all). Turns out that acpi=off was preventing the intel driver from loading, which was preventing the dual-head. It also turns out that acpi=off wasn't required, but nolapic was required, and that option does not interfere with the video driver stuff.
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