IRC Logs

Channel log from 5 October 2008 (all times are UTC)

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02:29	<monteslu> warren, does f9+ltsp5 have the same nbd issues that ubuntu does?
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07:17	<warren> monteslu: what 'Issues"?
07:25	<ogra> warren, reconnect
07:25	<warren> correct, nobody used -persist before
07:26	<ogra> you need the persist option for the client so it reconnects automatically on a server downtime
07:26	<warren> I didn't try it because vagrantc said it caused instability?
07:26	<ogra> nah, it doesnt
07:26	didnt stephane submit that yesterday to the upstram code (for swap as well)
07:27	*upstream
07:28	<warren> that isn't upstream
07:28	ogra: only debian and ubuntu use that part
07:29	<ogra> you dont use nbdswap ?
07:29	oh, well there persist would probably make no sense anyway
07:29	as you would get an empty swapfile after a server reboot
07:30	i think thats what vagrant meant with instability, it makes only sense with readonly stuff
07:30	* ogra remembers again
07:32	<warren> if that's the case, then the -persist doesn't help
07:32	you need to TURN OFF nbd swap to use your ltsp-cluster
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07:32	<ogra> it helps with the rootfs
07:32	but not with swap
07:32	<warren> until it realizes swap is gone
07:32	boom
07:33	the kernel VM is aggressive at using swap
07:33	even if you have ample amounts of ram
07:33	<ogra> the root image content doesnt change, it will be the same after a reconnect, if you lose swap you are lost anyway
07:33	<warren> you need swap on a different server then
07:33	<ogra> (but imho you are lost if you even use it )
07:33	thats why i pushed so much for compcache
07:34	which is in intrepid now
07:34	and should prevent swap usage to a certain point
07:35	we should probably consider setting swappiness to a low value upstream
07:35	i think we all use kernels that understand that setting
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08:31	<warren> ogra: setting swapiness is not a good idea. you know very well that isn't sufficient to protect a user
08:31	<ogra> no, but it lowers the risk
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08:41	<alkisg> stgraber, italc has problems with the "guest" feature of intrepid: "cannot start ISD server" if I remember well. Is this a known problem? I think a check (if not already loaded ...) would be useful in this case but in other cases also (I've seen this error many times).
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09:16	<monteslu> ogra, you still there?
09:17	I've been dead in the water for a few days now. "Starting Gnome display manager" hanging. Tons of nbd I/O error messages in /var/log/messages
09:17	no one on the list seems to have any ideas about what to do
09:18	Pretty sure the school has lost faith in ltsp this year because of all the downtime, and I'm not sure how to fix it. We've been using ltsp for years
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09:36	<warren> anyone here for the k12linux meeting?
09:37	(I didn't tell anyone that I would be here today.)
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10:03	<petre> warren, ping
10:04	<warren> petre: pong
10:04	<petre> I got an email pointing out that I'd forgotten to do the CLA for Fedora contributors
10:04	which I've now completed
10:05	but the email also said I needed a sponsor.
10:05	I also thought I saw something in the CLA process saying I need to email a pdf of some sort of signed agreement
10:05	do you know anything about this process?
10:06	<warren> petre: there is no PDF of signed agreement
10:06	petre: cla is only a click thru
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10:06	<warren> petre: you don't need a sponsor if you are doing only wiki edits
10:06	<petre> right, and I did that, and it says I'm all completed
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11:05	<monteslu> so how do i kill all the nbd stuff?
11:06	my clients are all 128mb or higher
11:06	should be enough right?
11:06	Sure would be nice if I had a clues as to what the edubuntu 8.04 defaults were
11:07	there should be a default lts.conf with that stuff in it, even if commented out
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11:23	<johnny> monteslu, ??
11:23	you need nbd for boot
11:24	nbd should be faster than booting from nfs
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11:27	<monteslu> you need nbd?
11:27	it thought it was just for swaping
11:27	<johnny> nbd swap is off by default
11:27	<monteslu> well I've got thousands of nbd I/O errors in /var/log/messages
11:28	this is a normal 8.04 ltsp install, single server
11:28	<johnny> yes.. it's why you have to run ltsp-update-image
11:28	when you change the chroot
11:29	<monteslu> i didn't change anything
11:29	i did a the build and it was working
11:29	originally, i mean. I did the build the like the doc said
11:29	<johnny> just saying that if you ever change the chroot
11:29	<monteslu> I'll give update a shot though
11:29	<johnny> like adding proprietary drivers
11:29	<monteslu> ahh, ok
11:29	<johnny> this is partly why lts.conf was moved from /etc/lts.conf in the chroot to being served from tftp
11:30	<monteslu> hmm... maybe there was a kernel update or something since i built it at first
11:30	<johnny> well.. it could just be a bug
11:30	does it appear after every reboot?
11:30	<monteslu> yeah, and the thin clients are hung up on "negotiation:"
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11:31	<johnny> and this is a fresh chroot since?
11:31	<monteslu> but I"m also having intermittent problems with gdm launching, not sure if its cause or effect
11:31	<johnny> since whne?
11:31	ther is no gdm
11:31	only ldm
11:31	<monteslu> "Starting Gnome display manager" on the server
11:31	<johnny> oh
11:31	<monteslu> that hangs
11:31	<johnny> that's a totally seperate issue
11:31	<monteslu> it cleared up when i switched to framebuffer
11:31	<johnny> not ltsp related at all
11:31	<monteslu> but it started again
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11:32	<monteslu> sure seems to be related, since i can't boot a thin client message if that's up
11:32	if it's passed that service i can
11:32	<johnny> sounds like x could have issues on your server?
11:32	install updates?
11:32	<monteslu> upstart seems to have dependent things on that
11:32	its fully updated
11:33	<johnny> maybe it's too updated :)
11:33	lol
11:33	<monteslu> heh
11:33	shoulda stuck with 7.04
11:33	8.04 has been a nightmare for me
11:33	<johnny> i only have a few problems
11:33	with 8.04
11:33	<monteslu> I've probably had less than 50% uptime this year
11:33	<johnny> been fine for awhile now
11:33	<monteslu> lots of reasons, but this is the latest thing
11:34	<johnny> the packages for 7.04 were too old
11:34	for me to continue using them
11:34	i guess i'd rather fix bugs than use packages that nobody except the ubuntu developers can help solve
11:35	since the upstream developers have already moved on at that time
11:35	<monteslu> really seems that there's not love for the project anymore. Things just worked when it was all in jammcq's hands
11:36	<johnny> that is incorrect
11:36	<monteslu> not its all over the place
11:36	<johnny> there are more ltsp supported distros now than before
11:36	<monteslu> right, but each has its own slew of problems
11:37	<johnny> nobody else could or would touch ltsp4 code..
11:37	<monteslu> k12 was one very active list
11:37	<johnny> including myself
11:37	i probably wouldn't be here at all, if it weren't for ltsp5
11:38	<monteslu> I'm a developer myself, so I know where you're coming from.. .but I'm also a volunteer for a school
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11:38	<monteslu> Things just seems splintered, and it has gotten much worse this year since ltsp moved from edubunut to ubuntu
11:38	<johnny> huh?
11:39	ltsp never moved anywhere
11:39	that was a policy thing
11:39	not a code thing
11:39	<monteslu> its not an edubuntu project
11:39	right
11:39	<johnny> edubuntu doesn't exist
11:39	<monteslu> so the list is dead
11:39	<johnny> it is now ubuntu: education edition
11:39	which sounds alot better
11:40	than edubuntu.. which would be stuck with gnome
11:40	better to have one distro.. with the projects based on that
11:40	<monteslu> I just mean that the list was active a year ago, and it was easier to find help. Now i have to cross post to k12osn, edubuntu-users, and ltsp-discuss
11:41	<johnny> why does k12osn still exist?
11:41	or edubuntu-users..
11:41	it'd be nice of edubuntu-users or whatever it should be called now.. would just focus on techniques and programs
11:41	but not support
11:41	<monteslu> that's edubuntu-devel
11:41	so where should support be?
11:42	<johnny> should have a linux-education list or something
11:42	where folks just talk about what programs to use to solve which problem
11:42	and then have ltsp-support or whatever
11:42	<monteslu> agreed, but there isn't and that's why i think things are worse right now then they used to be when it was all k12ltsp and one big community
11:42	<johnny> for ltsp specific problems
11:42	that's a solvable problem at least
11:43	i rarely find myself trusting list posts anyways i guess
11:43	on any list
11:43	usually they are always too old to trust
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11:44	<johnny> it's rare that i run into a problem that any list post helps me solve..
11:44	i think more of a problem..
11:44	is that posts don't flow to becoming full fledged documentation objects
11:44	but that problem affects most open source projects
11:44	hell.. any software problem
11:44	project*
11:45	<monteslu> sure, but the nice thing about the old k12ltsp list was that the problems were common, and people were pretty helpful
11:46	ltsp-discuss is more of what you're talking about. It could be anything, and it would almost never apply to something you're running into
11:46	at least from a support perstpective
11:48	<stgraber> ogra: ping
11:48	ogra: saw my pm ?
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14:32	<b52lap> hi
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22:11	<warren> I'm tagging ltsp-trunk soon.
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Channel log from 5 October 2008 (all times are UTC)