IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 6 March 2011 (all times are UTC)
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| 03:39 | <markit> hi, anyone has some idea about what could be the reason for a client to "froze" (not black screen, just mouse/keyboard not responding, but you can kill X with ctrl+alt+rsys+k)
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| 03:39 | (thin client with swap activated over NBD, kubuntu 10.10)
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| 03:45 | <alkisg> Press alt+ctrl+f1 to switch to the console, leave it for 5 minutes and check for any messages
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| 03:47 | E.g. it could be a network issue, nbd-proxy etc
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| 03:48 | <markit> alkisg: thanks, but these issues are so random...
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| 03:49 | <alkisg> Right, when you see one
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| 03:49 | <markit> it happens almost at every lesson, but in a range of multiple clients
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| 03:49 | <alkisg> markit: have you disabled nbd-proxy?
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| 03:49 | It's on by default
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| 03:49 | <markit> mmm I disabled time ago when there was an issue
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| 03:49 | <alkisg> If you updated your kernels since then, it's been re-enabled
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| 03:49 | grep proxy /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 03:49 | <markit> then I probably never enabled again, but could be that in the upgrade process (from 10.04 to 10.10) was re-enabled again
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| 03:50 | <alkisg> What does this return?
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| 03:50 | <markit> I'm not at school at the moment
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| 03:50 | <alkisg> Right, so it's possible that this is the problem
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| 03:50 | <markit> so disable the proxy is a good idea? I thought was fixed
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| 03:50 | <alkisg> It's been disabled by default in newer ltsp versions exactly because it was causing networking problems
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| 03:50 | No, it hasn't been fixed
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| 03:51 | <markit> I see, thanks a lot
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| 03:51 | <alkisg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/589034
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| 03:51 | !nbd-proxy
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| 03:51 | <ltspbot> alkisg: Error: "nbd-proxy" is not a valid command.
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| 03:53 | <markit> so I have to disable every time I upgrade the kernel?
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| 03:53 | <alkisg> !learn nbd-proxy as Ubuntu 10.04 and 10.10 use a wrapper called nbd-proxy, which is causing networking problems for some people. See https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/589034. It's been disabled by default in 11.04, see http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/1803
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| 03:53 | <ltspbot> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 03:53 | <alkisg> markit: read the bug report
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| 03:53 | Hmm let me verify that I indeed put a method there
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| 03:53 | Yup, I did
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| 03:53 | <markit> :)
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| 03:54 | <alkisg> Comment #13, it was asked too frequently here so I put it there
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| 03:54 | <markit> btw, I was a school last time when I faced the dbus problem during upgrade. Is still an issue for future upgrades? If so, could you give me the issue number? I was not ablet to take note
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| 03:55 | <alkisg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dbus/+bug/552404
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| 03:55 | markit: I fixed it for Lucid, but someone needs to verify that the fix is working in Maverick
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| 03:55 | So if you want it fixed, test the fix from maverick-proposed, and comment on the bug report
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| 03:56 | (I won't be using maverick at all)
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| 03:56 | <markit> I applied manually the fix, and worked fine
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| 03:57 | (added the || true or whatever in that line)
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| 03:57 | <alkisg> That's not enough though
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| 03:57 | The ubuntu maintainers need verification that the version in maverick-proposed is working
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| 03:57 | If they get the verification, THEN they'll publish it in normal mavirick-updates, so that it's fixed for future upgrades
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| 03:57 | <markit> I'm a debian guy that sometime installs kubuntu... what is maverick-proposed? a new repository?
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| 03:57 | <alkisg> Otherwise maverick will stay broken
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| 03:58 | Yes, read the bug report, there's a link there on how to test
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| 03:58 | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed
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| 03:58 | <markit> fabolous, I could test in my VM that is almost the same setup that I have at school
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| 03:58 | <alkisg> Right
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| 03:59 | It should still display an error, but the installation/upgrade should succeed
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| 03:59 | <markit> I'm really gratefull to your work for ltsp and your constant help
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| 03:59 | hope one day that you will need help in some aspect I master, lol
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| 03:59 | <alkisg> np, someone helped me too when I got here, I hope you can help others as well
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| 03:59 | <markit> are you interested in virtualization and Proxmox? :)
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| 04:00 | yes, that's the spirit, but in any case you are much higher than average
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| 04:01 | if every nation had an 2-3 alkisg that contribute to ltsp, schools would be much further in adopting GNU/Linux
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| 04:01 | <alkisg> 2-3 years ago there were only about 10 schools in greece using linux, now I think/hope they're more than 200
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| 04:01 | <markit> that's stunning!
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| 04:01 | <alkisg> And I hope they'll be many more in 2-3 years ahead
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| 04:02 | <markit> yes, but if you go too far, M$ monopoly will try harder to stop you
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| 04:02 | maybe with some "incentive" $$$ to government
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| 04:02 | that's the depressing situation
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| 04:02 | but we can't stop because of this :)
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| 04:02 | <alkisg> If they ever start giving free licenses for all their programs to teachers and schools, then I'll be willing to listen
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| 04:02 | Until then, I don't care what they do
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| 04:03 | <markit> free of cost is not freedom
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| 04:03 | <alkisg> For english lessons, they're giving free books and CDs to teachers
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| 04:03 | <markit> they can give you free of charge, kill GNU/Linux and then in a short time squeeze you money again
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| 04:03 | <alkisg> markit: as a developer, sure, I value free software
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| 04:03 | <markit> or just wait until students are graduated so they will want to use M$crapware at work
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| 04:03 | etc.
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| 04:04 | and they are in position to control whatever you do
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| 04:04 | <alkisg> As a teacher I don't mind much about closed source software, as long as the money for it doesn't come out of my pocket
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| 04:04 | <markit> I've seen that in italy the "magic board" is controlled by software that is free, but not Free. You have to register to the site and get a code
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| 04:04 | <alkisg> Don't worry I know the tactics they can use :)
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| 04:04 | <markit> you depend on them totally... is a suicide for a nation
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| 04:05 | :)
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| 04:05 | alkisg: btw, as a teacher you shuld value freedom even more than as a developer, OMHO
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| 04:06 | I don't want my children become dumb "consumer"
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| 04:06 | <alkisg> It's a big subject, it's difficult to express my opinion on it correctly with 2-3 sentences
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| 04:06 | <markit> and IT knowledge be out of their possibility, because the source is secret
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| 04:07 | alkisg: yes, you are right, I'm sure you are in a correct position, so we can quit this conversation
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| 04:07 | :)
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| 04:07 | <alkisg> But I assure you I value FLOSS a lot, both as a developer and as a teacher
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| 04:07 | Don't only think MS for closed source software
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| 04:07 | <markit> is just that I'm facing this position at my school, and make teachers value freedom in IT is not easy, they look at you like you were a strange hippy
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| 04:08 | <alkisg> We could e.g. be teaching some software about dentists
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| 04:08 | If the company can't make money out of the FOSS model, then I wouldn't want that company closed just to have some FOSS program
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| 04:08 | FOSS isn't for all companies
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| 04:09 | <markit> probably not, but take the example of the "magic board" in Italy
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| 04:09 | they are based on closed source software, AFAIK
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| 04:09 | <alkisg> I wouldn't buy a board that doesn't support linux
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| 04:09 | <markit> probably our government has put a lot of money to have "free" licenses for all the schools
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| 04:10 | it does support linux, with a proprietary version of that program that runs (should run) on linux
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| 04:10 | but if italian government had took all this money
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| 04:10 | to pay local developers to produce a good software that is GPL
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| 04:10 | it would have spent money much wiser
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| 04:11 | the magic board producer could get money from the hardware
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| 04:11 | <alkisg> I don't think those companies would object to making their software compatible with linux
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| 04:11 | They make money from hardware mainly
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| 04:11 | <markit> in fact is compatible, but is not Free
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| 04:11 | you still depend upon their license
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| 04:11 | <alkisg> So why would you care?
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| 04:11 | Do you care if the software in your mp3 player is open/closed?
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| 04:12 | <markit> see above :) is not Free software, if is broken they will not fix fast (they value M$version more)
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| 04:12 | <alkisg> There are some stuff that we just want it to work, without doing anything development related with them
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| 04:12 | <markit> I do care if every software I use is not Free software
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| 04:12 | <alkisg> Have 10 years guarantee
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| 04:12 | <markit> I don't run non free software on my workstation
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| 04:12 | <alkisg> What about your washing machine?
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| 04:12 | Etc etc
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| 04:12 | <markit> my washing machine does not have all my value data
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| 04:13 | <alkisg> And you store data in your boards?
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| 04:13 | <markit> is not connected to internet
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| 04:13 | <alkisg> Neither are the boards
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| 04:13 | We just want them to be able to interface with linux
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| 04:13 | <markit> mmm misunderstanding here
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| 04:13 | <alkisg> If the guarantee that for the next 10 years, I don't care if their software is open source or not
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| 04:13 | <markit> I'm talking about the software that is run on the PC
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| 04:13 | that is used to create lessons etc
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| 04:13 | <alkisg> There's a driver for the boards on the PC
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| 04:14 | Ah I don't know about that software
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| 04:14 | I was talking about the driver
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| 04:14 | <markit> "Active Inspire 1.4"
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| 04:14 | <alkisg> LibreOffice Impress, works for me :P
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| 04:14 | <markit> I thought no special driver was needed
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| 04:15 | mmm I don't like proprietary drivers as well
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| 04:15 | tons of troubles if you upgrade the kernel
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| 04:15 | <alkisg> For many boards, linux doesn't even see the hardware
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| 04:15 | <markit> urgh :(
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| 04:15 | <alkisg> That could be part of the guarantee
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| 04:15 | For the driver, I just care that it works, not the development model
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| 04:16 | If they get some algorithm to have better performance, i'd understand if they keep it closed source for some years until they make some profit
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| 04:16 | Like nvidia vs nouveau
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| 04:17 | If nvidia went open source, what's to prevent intel from getting their algorithms?
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| 04:50 | <markit> sorry, had to run to bring home my children, now dinner time :)
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| 04:52 | about nvidia, they are right, so I avoid purcase their hardware and buy amd instead, or Intel, or whatever vendog is a good FOSS citizen
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| 04:53 | so is their choice to not do business with FOSS, but the problem is foss people not caring about freedom and buying nvidia hardware
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| 04:53 | that's sad and suicide
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| 00:00 | --- Mon Mar 7 2011 | |