IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 3 July 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:13 | <dukai> hello
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| 02:13 | I would like to ask a question about ltsp-5
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| 02:14 | <LastLemming> me too :)
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| 02:14 | <dukai> :)
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| 02:15 | just found this channel on the website
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| 02:15 | Is it possible to have a server shutdown button with ldm, as it used to work with kdm/gdm in ltsp-4?
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| 02:15 | <LastLemming> hey dukai, which distro you instead ltsp,
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| 02:15 | <dukai> ubuntu
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| 02:15 | <LastLemming> 2 nic cards,
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| 02:16 | or 1 nic card only,
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| 02:16 | <dukai> 1 nic
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| 02:18 | <LastLemming> does it work,
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| 02:22 | <dukai> yes it works
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| 02:22 | for many years now
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| 02:22 | <LastLemming> with ubuntu alternative and ltsp installation,
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| 02:22 | or apt-get install,
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| 02:23 | <dukai> with apt-get
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| 02:23 | what is your problem?
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| 02:24 | <LastLemming> with 2 nic cards it's ok
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| 02:24 | except sometimes on some client
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| 02:24 | theses clients boot on busybox
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| 02:24 | i don't know why
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| 02:25 | some clients are ok, got gnome
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| 02:25 | and some only busybox
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| 02:25 | i don't know how to fix that
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| 02:25 | <Ryan52> LastLemming: are you sure it's busybox or is it the normal console login?
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| 02:25 | <LastLemming> no busybox
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| 02:25 | <Ryan52> LastLemming: as in, does it say busybox?
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| 02:26 | <LastLemming> let me check again
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| 02:26 | <Ryan52> LastLemming: usually if the kernel can't boot for some reason it will give you a busybox shell. And it will give you errors before it gives you the shell explaining what went wrong.
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| 02:27 | LastLemming: If you have those errors, that information would defidently help in debugging.
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| 02:27 | LastLemming: but if it's a console login asking for a username (or whatever it says), then that means it's a problem with X.
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| 02:27 | <LastLemming> ok alot "new clients" or "fat client" i got ldm login
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| 02:28 | <Ryan52> (or ldm, though probably x)
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| 02:28 | <LastLemming> with thin client hp
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| 02:28 | i got initramfs
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| 02:28 | after ubuntu splash screen
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| 02:28 | no ask login
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| 02:28 | initramfs prompt
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| 02:29 | how i can see what wrong with client
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| 02:29 | <Ryan52> LastLemming: okay, that's a kernel problem then. Are there any errors above the prompt?
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| 02:29 | <LastLemming> no errorwith prompt
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| 02:30 | but waiting slapsh is longer
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| 02:30 | <Ryan52> LastLemming: edit wherever your boot options are. (maybe /var/lib/tftp/seomthing/something/pxelinux.cfg (or something like that)) and take away 'splash' (if its there) and 'quiet'.
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| 02:30 | <LastLemming> success clients are faster during spals screen
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| 02:30 | <Ryan52> LastLemming: ya, so turning off the splash and quiet will get us more information.
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| 02:31 | <LastLemming> ok
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| 02:31 | <Ryan52> Looks like it might be in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 02:32 | <LastLemming> yep
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| 02:32 | <Ryan52> so take 'splash' and 'quiet' out and reboot your client.
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| 02:33 | <LastLemming> how need to restart some services,
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| 02:33 | no need to restart some services,
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| 02:33 | <Ryan52> no, just reboot the client
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| 02:35 | <LastLemming> ok
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| 02:35 | error it's with mounting rofs
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| 02:35 | but question before
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| 02:35 | i use 2 nic cards
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| 02:36 | 1 with network lan 192.168.100.0/24
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| 02:36 | and ltps lan 192.168.0.0/24
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| 02:37 | the client got 192.168.100.113, is it good one,
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| 02:37 | or client should have 192.168.0.0/24 ip
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| 02:37 | <Ryan52> should've gotten 192.168.0.0. Are your networks connected together?
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| 02:38 | <LastLemming> there are 2 dhcp servers, the regular one and the ltsp one
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| 02:38 | <Ryan52> Are the 2 networks physically connected together?
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| 02:38 | <LastLemming> yes
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| 02:39 | <Ryan52> why?
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| 02:39 | <LastLemming> because i'm testing, i uselly test in vm nat
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| 02:39 | now i try to test on the lan
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| 02:40 | but how some cleint always success to get ip from ltsp dhcp server, and some always can't,
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| 02:40 | <Ryan52> LastLemming: the 2 dhcp servers are gonna conflict with each other
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| 02:41 | LastLemming: you can't have 2 dhcp servers on 1 physical network unless they're setup to be in that kind of setup.
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| 02:42 | LastLemming: and, I think that the LTSP client tries to get the NFS share from the DHCP server that gave it it's ip unless it's set some other way. (not sure though.) so then the ones getting an IP from your lan will not work right.
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| 02:42 | * Ryan52 doesn't know LTSP good, though | |
| 02:42 | <LastLemming> right i don't have access to the main dhcp, any way i do till i have main dhcp server to disabled it
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| 02:42 | Ryan52: yep, it lok like taht
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| 02:43 | the path /root/rofs it's on nfs server,
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| 02:43 | or ndb server
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| 02:43 | ubuntu 8.04 it's iwht ndb right,
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| 02:44 | <Ryan52> I dunno!
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| 02:44 | If you want both dhcp servers to be able to give the clients what they need to know, then you need to setup the lan dhcp server like you did for ltsp server. and you need to add 'next-server ip.address.of.ltsp_server;' to your dhcpd.conf
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| 02:45 | on my example etch system (that was setup by people who know ltsp better than I) there is a comment that says '# next-server is only needed if the dhcp and nfs servers are different machines'.
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| 02:46 | <LastLemming> ok i try that
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| 02:46 | i wanted to install ltsp on lenny, i failed
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| 02:47 | <LastLemming> look like i fail to setup tftpd-hpa
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| 02:50 | <Ryan52> LastLemming: can't help you with that one.
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| 02:50 | <Nubae> warren: a quick question which is not ltsp related as such... I want to make an rpm of google gears for Fedora 9... is there an easy way to do this from the .xpi?
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| 02:50 | <Ryan52> LastLemming: but fyi, you should never have 2 'out of the box' dhcp servers on the same physical network, and that applies for everything (not just LTSP).
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| 02:51 | <dukai> Ryan52 could you help with an LDM-related question?
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| 02:51 | <Ryan52> dukai: I made a few patches for it 4 or 5 months ago, but that's it. (though I can look...)
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| 02:52 | dukai: what's your question?
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| 02:52 | <dukai> not that though, I think:) Is it possible to shutdown the server with LDM as it used to work with ltsp-4/kdm/gdm?
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| 02:53 | A shutdown -h is not sufficient because it would kill all the processes of all users without waiting for them to log out
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| 02:54 | Or maybe I should go back and use KDM again?
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| 02:55 | <Ryan52> dukai: I don't think ldm does that...
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| 02:55 | <dukai> Is it easy to revert to KDM?
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| 02:56 | <Ryan52> dukai: dunno.
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| 02:56 | dukai: no, I don't think you can use kdm.
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| 02:56 | <dukai> ok, I'll try:) strange that nobody uses that feature
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| 02:56 | that it did not pop up anywhere
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| 02:57 | <ogra> you would want every user to be able to
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| 02:57 | shutdown ?
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| 02:57 | <dukai> yes
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| 02:57 | it's a small local network
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| 02:57 | <ogra> that would gain us massive amounts of moaning in 99% of the usecases
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| 02:57 | <Nubae> heh
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| 02:58 | <Nubae> ogra: I have a meeting tomorrow to sugarize classmate and hp mininote, as well as the asus eeepc... think netbook-remix might be ready?
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| 02:58 | <ogra> you can try to use gdm-signal (see gdm-signal --help) that will set a shutdown in gdm's queue on the server and gdm will shut it down if the last user logged out
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| 02:59 | <dukai> that sounds good
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| 02:59 | <ogra> Nubae, i'm doing ny best, but i dont think i'll make it before tomorrow, what kind of disk does your cmpc have ?
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| 02:59 | <dukai> does gdm know about the ldm logged in users?
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| 03:00 | <ogra> (how big especially)
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| 03:00 | dukai, no
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| 03:00 | <Nubae> Im not sure, havent seen it yet, will see it tomorrow around 1
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| 03:00 | <ogra> ldm uses ssh, gdm uses XDMCP
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| 03:01 | <Nubae> I wanna convince them to stack sugar ontop of netbook remix though... especially if you say atom processors only work well with netbook remix
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| 03:01 | <ogra> Nubae, you can take my old image, nstall that to a usb key and then bootstrap an lpia system on dsk of te cmpc
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| 03:01 | after that its simply apt-gettig the rest of the desktp
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| 03:01 | erm
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| 03:02 | <dukai> not sure about ssh because of the ldm_directx in lts.conf but it must be something different
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| 03:02 | <ogra> you know what netbook remix is, right ?
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| 03:02 | <Nubae> sort of... Ive never actually seen it
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| 03:02 | <ogra> dukai, LDM_DIRECTX still uses ssh, it only not encrypts the X traffic
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| 03:02 | <Nubae> its made for cheapo mobile devices, right?
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| 03:03 | <ogra> its a standard desktop install with three new desktop apps and different ui
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| 03:03 | its all about the uui
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| 03:04 | *UI
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| 03:04 | <Nubae> right thats what I understood
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| 03:04 | similar to the eeepc xandros ui, or different?
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| 03:06 | <ogra> well, different as in ... its gnome
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| 03:06 | <Nubae> but visually, big icons for apps on the desktop
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| 03:06 | <ogra> so the cross intrgration between the apps you have in any ubuntu persists
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| 03:06 | <Nubae> split in work rest play, etc ;-)
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| 03:06 | <ogra> security updates apply the same as to a normal desktop etc
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| 03:07 | <Nubae> well, should be interesting to see how it fares on the eeepc and the hp mininote
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| 03:07 | <ogra> it only rips of window decorations and puts them into maxiized mode ... gives you a home button on the panel and a window selector ...
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| 03:07 | and adds the well known launcher
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| 03:08 | i'm using it on my normal laptop here atm, you can install it on every ubuntu if you like to, no special image needed
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| 03:09 | <Nubae> ok, so u think I should download an image to install on thee eeepc to start with (that doesnt need the atom image)
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| 03:09 | <ogra> right
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| 03:09 | just do a normal install, then follow the netbook-remox instructions
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| 03:09 | *remix
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| 03:09 | <Nubae> can u point me in the download direction?
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| 03:10 | <ogra> https://launchpad.net/netbook-remix
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| 03:10 | indeed :)
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| 03:11 | <Nubae> any data you'd like back from me concerning install/usage?
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| 03:11 | <ogra> file bugs about the apps :)
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| 03:11 | the guys are in last stage to fix final bugs
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| 03:12 | thats the PPA you need to add to your sources.list https://launchpad.net/~netbook-remix-team/+archive
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| 03:12 | Nubae, btw, we're heavily offtopic, lets move to #ubuntu-mobile (next time at least)
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| 03:13 | <Nubae> heh, thought this was edubuntu... would have been more ontopic there I guess
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| 03:13 | <ogra> heh, yeah
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| 03:18 | <dukai> ogra could you direct me how to change ldm to gdm?
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| 03:18 | <ogra> dukai, note that you lose all features then (sound local devcies etc)
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| 03:19 | <dukai> localdev also?
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| 03:19 | than it's not a solution
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| 03:19 | <ogra> but essentially creat an lts.conf and add SCREEN_07=startx (or xdmcp, depending on your version, we renamed that recently)
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| 03:23 | <LTSPTNK> btw
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| 03:24 | it seems to me that there is a lot of features i will never need, for example bluetooth. Is there a way to disable it permanently?
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| 03:24 | what about trackerd, I can't see it would have any use in my envinroment?
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| 03:30 | because i made a little calculation and seems to me that by getting rid of bluetooth things and trackerd i could free up to 300mb of ram in our envinroment
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| 03:31 | <ogra> LTSPTNK, open add/remove or synaptic and just remove their packages :)
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| 03:31 | <Nubae> LTSPTNK: how'd u calculate that, seems awfully high
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| 03:31 | <LTSPTNK> i think that they have kind of big depencyes
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| 03:33 | <ogra> dependencies dont free up ram :)
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| 03:33 | neither does package removal
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| 03:33 | <LTSPTNK> :D
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| 03:33 | <ogra> if you dont have bluetooth HW the tools wont do anything
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| 03:33 | <LTSPTNK> I mean while a hive like 20 trackerd's running it takes 20 x 8mb ram
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| 03:33 | <ogra> and nit really hog ram
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| 03:34 | <LTSPTNK> and bluetooth takes 1mb, in 20 clients it makes 20mb useless ram usage
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| 03:34 | <ogra> tracker indexing is disabled by default, the app takes less than 1M or so while idling
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| 03:34 | well, feel free to drop them, i know they dont take that much :) and especially bluetoot doesnt run on a per user base
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| 03:35 | <LTSPTNK> hmmm doesnt seem to be disabled here
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| 03:36 | i have 3 clients hooked up and seems to be using 29mb's
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| 03:36 | <ogra> how do you determine the ram ?
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| 03:37 | (hint: dont say top)
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| 03:37 | <LTSPTNK> that isnt big problem but I just feel wierd having app's I don't need or which doesn't benefit at all
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| 03:38 | why not ;)
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| 03:39 | <ogra> because top doesnt give you the accurate values *and* even these are often misinterpreted
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| 03:39 | if you want something better install htop
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| 03:39 | thats more user readable
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| 03:39 | <dukai> ogra screen_07=startx replaces ldm completely
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| 03:40 | <ogra> accurate values are possible to get out of ps
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| 03:40 | <dukai> sure, htop is much more useful
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| 03:40 | <ogra> and you dont want virtual or shared ram but the actual vaue the app uses :)
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| 03:40 | dukai, right, thats if you want to use gdm/kdm
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| 03:40 | <dukai> :)
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| 03:40 | ok
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| 03:41 | it seems that I'll have to modify people, then
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| 03:41 | if modifying the system is not possible:)
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| 03:41 | <ogra> giving the haircuts nd such ?
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| 03:41 | make sure they actually want that :)
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| 03:41 | <dukai> :)
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| 03:42 | <ogra> whats your exact problem ?
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| 03:42 | <dukai> has anyone experince with hp t5730/5735?
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| 03:42 | the logout
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| 03:42 | I mean shutdown
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| 03:42 | <LTSPTNK> btw htop is nice, shows a bit better than top :) this is something I have been searching for a while ty :)
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| 03:43 | <dukai> there's also iotop for real I/O usage, requires 2.6.22+ kernel
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| 03:45 | <LTSPTNK> btw, is there a way to define ethernet speed between client and server? I have 1 switch with Zonet 16 ports and it is 100MBs, then a testing toy D-Link which has 8 ports and is 1000MBs and the last but not least is HP's huge 16 ports 1000MBs
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| 03:45 | But I feel like the Zonet would be faster than D-Link :D
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| 04:04 | <Nubae> peayzip
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| 04:04 | oops
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| 04:06 | <ogra> Nubae, thats not a good password ... you should have numbers and capital letters in it :)
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| 04:32 | <Nubae> lol... I was trying to write apt-cache search peazip but still not used to using damn german keyboard
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| 04:33 | why they have to be so different I´ll never know
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| 04:40 | * ogra switches back and forth daily between de and us kbd | |
| 04:41 | <ogra> you get used to it
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| 04:41 | <Nubae> yeah I'm used to switching between gb, es and us
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| 04:41 | but since I'm in Austria now, add de to the mix
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| 05:04 | <LastLemming> back
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| 05:06 | I can't login into ldm, how I can see the log?
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| 05:06 | <ogra> whats the error on screen
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| 05:07 | <LastLemming> this workstation isn't autorize to connect to server
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| 05:07 | <ogra> your ssh keys are outdated
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| 05:07 | what distro is that ?
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| 05:07 | <LastLemming> ubuntu
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| 05:08 | <ogra> soemthing recent ?
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| 05:08 | <LastLemming> just installed fewer minute
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| 05:08 | <ogra> you need to run sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys and after that sudo ltsp-update-image
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| 05:08 | <LastLemming> oh
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| 05:08 | didn't sudo ltsp-update-image
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| 05:09 | <ogra> i assume you changed the servers IP after installing ltsp
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| 05:09 | then the ssh keys in the client env dont match anymore
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| 05:09 | <LastLemming> yes
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| 05:09 | <ogra> make sure to have all updates installed first
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| 05:09 | <LastLemming> I did ltsp-update-sshkeys but didn't do ltsp-update-image
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| 05:09 | <ogra> there was ssh breakage after hardy released ... that will regenerate your ssh keys forcefuly
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| 05:10 | so its better to have that in before runing the two commands
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| 05:10 | <LastLemming> I already updated hardy
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| 05:10 | <ogra> else you have to do it again
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| 05:10 | ok
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| 05:10 | <LastLemming> ok
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| 05:11 | need to update in ltsp too?
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| 05:12 | I mean to inside chroot and apt-get update
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| 05:12 | <ogra> iirc i didnt no changes to the client ... unless you use a gedoe chipset in any of your clients
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| 05:12 | *geode
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| 05:12 | <LastLemming> it's new amd cpu?
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| 05:13 | <ogra> the client ?
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| 05:13 | <LastLemming> geode
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| 05:13 | <ogra> its an embeedded amd cpu ... not actually new and if all your clients boot fine to the graphical login you dont need to cre
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| 05:13 | <LastLemming> geode it's a name new amd cpu ?
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| 05:14 | how old geode exists?
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| 05:14 | <ogra> several years
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| 05:14 | since 2000 or around that iirc
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| 05:15 | it ha an intregrated craphics chipset for which the driver was broken for quite some time ... that was recently fixed ... you would have noticed your clients not booting if you had one
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| 05:15 | beyond that there were no updates that would affect the clients
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| 05:16 | just make sure the server is up to date
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| 05:16 | <LastLemming> ok
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| 05:17 | I'mtesting with VM thin client, differents old or new fat client
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| 05:17 | and thin client
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| 05:17 | HP
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| 05:27 | <dukai> no one with HP t5730/5735?
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| 05:29 | <ogra> dukai, try https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss there are some people with HP clients on it
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| 05:29 | <dukai> this is the new one with amd sempron and ati
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| 05:29 | need some information before purchase
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| 05:29 | ok
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| 05:30 | <ogra> how much do you pay for them ?
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| 05:32 | <dukai> it's around 350EUR
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| 05:32 | <ogra> phew
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| 05:33 | <dukai> do you know something about that with ldm a few function keys don't work?
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| 05:33 | is it expensive?
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| 05:33 | <dukai> we are looking for fast clients
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| 05:34 | <ogra> what for ?
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| 05:34 | <ogra> they are only used for displaying stuff ... 4-500MHz and 128M are pretty fast for a thn client
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| 05:34 | <dukai> still have some sis system-on-a-chip 200mhz clients and the users are quite unhappy with them
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| 05:35 | <ogra> more ram is noce though, but above 256M its just wasted
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| 05:35 | 200MHz can run good if you have enough ram and a proper CPU
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| 05:35 | the ram is really more essential than the CPU on linux in general
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| 05:35 | <dukai> then maybe we are doing something wrong
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| 05:36 | <ogra> what kind of CPU was that ?
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| 05:36 | <ogra> http://www.disklessworkstations.com/cgi-bin/web/200105.html?id=2N3gRurS
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| 05:36 | <dukai> the old ltsp-4 and kernel 2.4 is much faster with them than ltsp-5
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| 05:36 | <ogra> thats a pretty good client
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| 05:37 | yeah, thats normal, ltsp5 does far more autodetection of things that slows down booting a bit ... the performance once logged in should be similar though
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| 05:37 | Nuba1 is now known as Nubae | |
| 05:37 | <dukai> not at all
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| 05:37 | it works much slower : http://store.epatec.net/de/product_info.php?cPath=1&products_id=28
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| 05:37 | <ogra> at least with LDM_DIRECTX set to true which you really should do on such CPUs
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| 05:38 | <dukai> we have also 800Mhz VIA, they work well, but still could be a little bit faster
| |
| 05:38 | <ogra> Vortex86 ????
| |
| 05:38 | <dukai> it should be
| |
| 05:38 | <ogra> "<ogra> 200MHz can run good if you have enough ram and a proper CPU"
| |
| 05:38 | *proper* :)
| |
| 05:38 | <dukai> :D
| |
| 05:38 | for example a web page with flash (unfortunately) lags with the 800mhz via
| |
| 05:39 | not to speak about the 200mhz sis
| |
| 05:39 | <ogra> http://www.artecgroup.com/thincan/models.html
| |
| 05:39 | the dbe61 is a very good client as well
| |
| 05:39 | should be between 150 and 200€
| |
| 05:40 | <dukai> and it would be nice to have dvi
| |
| 05:40 | <ogra> Q-FUNK knows the prices better though :)
| |
| 05:40 | <Q-FUNK> hm?
| |
| 05:40 | <LTSPTNK> is there any guide or suggestions what should be intalled on client side, I mean I have pretty fast clients (5 year old comp with 1.6-1.8GHz processor and 512 ram). So it seems to me pretty odd to run all the software on server
| |
| 05:41 | DonSilver has quit IRC | |
| 05:41 | <Q-FUNK> ah, right. dbe61 is currently 100eur.
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| 05:41 | <ogra> Q-FUNK, dukai plans to buy clients for €350 ...
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| 05:41 | makghosh has joined #ltsp | |
| 05:41 | <ogra> which is overkill
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| 05:41 | <Q-FUNK> dukai: why would you do that?
| |
| 05:41 | indeed
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| 05:41 | <ogra> well, there is HP branding involved ;)
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| 05:41 | <Q-FUNK> ah.
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| 05:41 | <dukai> no
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| 05:41 | <ogra> that might cost you €50 :)
| |
| 05:41 | <dukai> I don't need the branding
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| 05:42 | I need >=1GHz + DVI
| |
| 05:42 | <ogra> no, but it surely makes up some part of the price :)
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| 05:42 | subir_ has quit IRC | |
| 05:42 | <Q-FUNK> for a thin client, >= !GHz ?
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| 05:42 | <ogra> heh
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| 05:43 | subir_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 05:43 | <ogra> DVI might make sense, even though i dont kno ayone every using it in LTSP context
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| 05:43 | <Q-FUNK> dukai: DVI I can somewhat understand, but why would you need such a fast CPU for a thin client?
| |
| 05:43 | aye
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| 05:43 | <ogra> but you will very likely end up in horrible dirver hell to get it runing if you have an ati card in there
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| 05:43 | K_O-Gnom has joined #ltsp | |
| 05:43 | <dukai> so you're telling that you use 500mhz thin clients on normal say kde desktop and they are very fast
| |
| 05:43 | * ogra bets ati requires the nonfree driver to get that working | |
| 05:43 | <Q-FUNK> yup
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| 05:44 | or actually, 433MHz
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| 05:44 | <dukai> you can display a flash webpage without lagging?
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| 05:44 | <ogra> dukai, screen performance is a matter of network speed, graphics card and ram
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| 05:44 | <dukai> then the 800mhz via has low graphics?
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| 05:44 | <ogra> the CPU is only marginally involved here
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| 05:45 | <dukai> we have a 100mbps net
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| 05:45 | with low traffic
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| 05:45 | <ogra> well
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| 05:45 | traffic is a matter of screensizexcolordepth :)
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| 05:45 | <dukai> you mean that there is sense in upgrading to gigabit?
| |
| 05:45 | <ogra> screensize x colordepth
| |
| 05:45 | depends on your screensize
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| 05:46 | <dukai> nowadays a low-end tft has 1280x1024
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| 05:46 | <ogra> DVI indicates that you want huge resolutions
| |
| 05:46 | <dukai> but that could be higher
| |
| 05:47 | <ogra> i think there were formulas on the ltsp.org wiki soemwhere to get the bandwith demands at a certain size and depth
| |
| 05:47 | <dukai> I've never seen them
| |
| 05:47 | <ogra> fi you want high performance with many clients you should in any case have a gigE connection from server to switch
| |
| 05:48 | 100M from client to switch should be fine though
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| 05:48 | RiXtEr1 has quit IRC | |
| 05:49 | <dukai> I could try with one client turned on, if it's fast enough, then it's bandwidth
| |
| 05:49 | if not
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| 05:49 | <ogra> right
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| 05:49 | <dukai> then it could be graphics, as you're telling me
| |
| 05:49 | <ogra> also check the BIOS settings and make sure to give them enough videoram
| |
| 05:49 | <Q-FUNK> dukai: you might as well try a couple of DBE61 or DBE62 and see which one you like best. if fast graphic is important to you, the DBE62 has Gigabit and a slightly fast PCI bus.
| |
| 05:50 | <dukai> do you know normal price dvi clients?
| |
| 05:50 | * ogra doesnt use DVI anywhere | |
| 05:50 | <Q-FUNK> I haven't seen any DVI client yet
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| 05:51 | subir_ is now known as subir | |
| 05:51 | <dukai> there's the HP:) but I'm still unsure becouse of the binary video driver and the high price
| |
| 05:51 | <ogra> and its likely that you need custom drivers and config for DVI
| |
| 05:51 | J45p3r has joined #ltsp | |
| 05:52 | <ogra> the binary driver costs you at least 30M ram and you need to anuall yinstall it in the client enc
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| 05:52 | *env
| |
| 05:52 | *manually
| |
| 05:52 | <dukai> yes, it's bad
| |
| 05:52 | * ogra wouldnt go with these clients | |
| 05:52 | <dukai> another question: is it possible that ldm+ssh changed something with function keys usage?
| |
| 05:53 | I mean some of them don't seem to work
| |
| 05:53 | like printscreent, alt+stuff
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| 05:53 | <ogra> thats nothing ldm or ssh do
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| 05:53 | <dukai> ok
| |
| 05:53 | <ogra> myou can set up keyboard stuff via lts.conf
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| 05:53 | if you want special keymaps or settings
| |
| 05:54 | <dukai> it used to work
| |
| 05:54 | then it's the dapper->hardy upgrade
| |
| 05:57 | <ogra> did you properly rebuild your client ?
| |
| 05:58 | <dukai> do you know the price of dbe62? they don't have it on the site
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| 05:58 | <ogra> Q-FUNK, ^^^
| |
| 05:58 | <dukai> how is properly? :)
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| 05:58 | toscalix has joined #ltsp | |
| 05:58 | <dukai> the old ltsp-4 has the same problem
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| 05:58 | <ogra> move /opt/ltsp/i386 away and run ltsp-build-client
| |
| 05:59 | <dukai> yes
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| 05:59 | <ogra> ok, then its all fine
| |
| 05:59 | <dukai> and ltsp-build-client doesn't work if locale is not english:)
| |
| 05:59 | <ogra> huh ?
| |
| 05:59 | <dukai> it happened so
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| 05:59 | <ogra> i use it on a german setup
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| 05:59 | please file a bug with detailed info :)
| |
| 06:00 | <dukai> I mean ltsp-build-client --locale hu didn't work
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| 06:00 | <ogra> we provide ltp installs from CD since hardy ... the first thing you have to do there is to select your locale now ...
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| 06:00 | --locale ?
| |
| 06:00 | <Q-FUNK> dukai: dbe62 is currently 150eur
| |
| 06:00 | <ogra> where did you get that from ?
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| 06:01 | <dukai> ltsp-build-client --extra-help
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| 06:01 | <ogra> eeek
| |
| 06:01 | <dukai> is it so strange?
| |
| 06:01 | <ogra> its a debian plugin
| |
| 06:01 | wont work in ubuntu, sorry, my fault to let it through
| |
| 06:02 | ubuntu has an automatsm that puls all locale data from the server automatically
| |
| 06:02 | <dukai> how can I buy from artec? credit card + post
| |
| 06:02 | ok
| |
| 06:03 | I found it out soon, that without the option it worked
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| 06:03 | <ogra> so it should work if you dont use --locale
| |
| 06:03 | right
| |
| 06:03 | in any language
| |
| 06:03 | even though i'm not sure asian locales work right, i never tried that :)
| |
| 06:03 | <dukai> :)
| |
| 06:04 | what's the video chip in dbe62?
| |
| 06:04 | <ogra> geode
| |
| 06:04 | <dukai> ohh, it's a platform?
| |
| 06:04 | <ogra> CPU and embedded graphics chipset
| |
| 06:04 | <dukai> 1920x1440 looks promising
| |
| 06:05 | <ogra> and yu could invest the saved 200€ into network and server
| |
| 06:05 | <dukai> yes, just still afraid of the 500mhz cpu
| |
| 06:06 | I hope you're right
| |
| 06:06 | <ogra> like getting a good raid HW controller and a nice gigabit switch
| |
| 06:06 | and more server ram
| |
| 06:06 | <dukai> ram is enough
| |
| 06:06 | <ogra> nah, ram is never enough :)
| |
| 06:06 | its linux
| |
| 06:06 | <dukai> :)
| |
| 06:07 | <ogra> the more rm the faster your machine gets
| |
| 06:07 | *ram
| |
| 06:07 | linux is all about caching :) the more you can put i your cache the faster your apps wil respond
| |
| 06:08 | <dukai> where is the dbe manufacturer located?
| |
| 06:08 | <ogra> estonia
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| 06:08 | <dukai> that could work
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| 06:08 | should I write to the webpage?
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| 06:10 | <ogra> up to you i'D say :)
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| 06:12 | <ogra> lol. that epatec client has a FAN ?
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| 06:12 | foer a 200MHz CPU ?
| |
| 06:12 | * ogra shakes his head | |
| 06:13 | <dukai> yes
| |
| 06:13 | that was the first thin client I encountered
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| 06:14 | it worked reasonably for some time
| |
| 06:14 | but now it's too slooow
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| 06:15 | and I need a separate install with the old ltsp-4 for them, because ltsp-5 is even slower
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| 06:15 | <ogra> yes, 200MHz are somewhat on the edge
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| 06:15 | <dukai> but then the keyboard changing kde applet doesn't work with ltsp-4 and ubuntu hardy
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| 06:15 | so they suck
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| 06:15 | * ogra doesnt use kde ... so cant say much | |
| 06:15 | <dukai> it's X related
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| 06:16 | <ogra> well, gnome doesnt care for X here for example
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| 06:16 | it uses libxklavier on a higher level to switch layouts
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| 06:16 | <dukai> usually between X versions there is a keyboard layout incompatibility with the kde applet
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| 06:16 | <ogra> you shouldnt see tht on ltsp5
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| 06:16 | since we dont use xdmcp
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| 06:17 | <dukai> yes, but they are too slow for ltsp5
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| 06:17 | <ogra> so the X server the kde applet sees is actually the local proxy spawned by ssh
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| 06:17 | did you try without encryption (LDM_DIRECTX=True)
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| 06:17 | <dukai> that's why I want to try out some new client
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| 06:17 | <ogra> and with ebaled nbd swapping
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| 06:17 | *enabled
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| 06:17 | <dukai> of course it's without encryption:)
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| 06:18 | I don't have any nbd swap entry in lts.conf
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| 06:18 | is it useful?
| |
| 06:20 | it's written somewhere that nbd swap is the default
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| 06:21 | but I can include it
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| 06:21 | how to check if it is enabled?
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| 06:23 | <dukai> ogra: how to check if nbd swap is enabled?
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| 06:23 | <ogra> you either use a client with less than 48M that will enable it automatically or you set NBD_SWAP=True in lts.conf
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| 06:24 | its not on by default if the client has enough ram to boot
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| 06:24 | subir has quit IRC | |
| 06:24 | <ogra> (which is 48M atm for the lower level)
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| 06:24 | <dukai> then it is not enabled, since all the clients have >48mb ram
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| 06:25 | <ogra> itrepid will be able to boot 24 i hope
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| 06:25 | *intrepid
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| 06:25 | <dukai> for what reason should I enable nbd swap?
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| 06:26 | <ogra> to have more ram ... some apps push the unused / rarely used parts into swap
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| 06:26 | and beyond that as a safety net
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| 06:27 | <dukai> but the clients run only ssh and x server
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| 06:27 | <ogra> if you really run out of ram the client locks up hard ... with nbd swap it doesnt ... its gets uusable slow if you swap, but it will return and at least let you save unfinished work
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| 06:27 | <dukai> I see
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| 06:27 | <ogra> they run a soundserver, the bits and pieces for local apps
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| 06:27 | and X caches the graphics in ram
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| 06:28 | err
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| 06:28 | local devices sorry
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| 06:28 | <dukai> it could have happened that they locked up
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| 06:28 | rarely
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| 06:28 | <ogra> right, nbd swapping is a safety net for that
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| 06:28 | <dukai> ok
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| 06:28 | <ogra> so your users have an ability to still close their openoffice doc
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| 06:31 | <Nubae> hmm is root translated wurzel in German (as in system root) sounds off to me
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| 06:31 | <dukai> :)
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| 06:33 | <ogra> you could translate it more freely with "stamm"
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| 06:33 | <Nubae> ah yes that sounds better
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| 06:39 | toscalix has quit IRC | |
| 06:46 | <Q-FUNK> stem.
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| 06:46 | interesting
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| 06:52 | <ogra> well, i would traslate it back as "base" instead of "stem" :)
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| 06:52 | but thats indeed my free interpretation
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| 06:53 | <Q-FUNK> ok, it seems that our online shop is operational, now
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| 06:54 | http://artecgroup.myshopify.com/
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| 06:54 | <ogra> the css seems slightly broken
| |
| 06:55 | the text that should be below the images overlaps them
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| 06:55 | cyberorg has joined #ltsp | |
| 06:56 | <Q-FUNK> I'm not surprised. our webmaster decided to use some ready-to-brand site engine
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| 06:56 | <ogra> at least for the dbe60 in the top row in the middle and the dbe61a (bottom right)
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| 06:56 | <Nubae> ogra: maybe u should have started with... looks nice, then jumpt to the errors ;-)
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| 06:56 | <ogra> pfft
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| 06:56 | Q-FUNK knows me ...
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| 06:56 | <Nubae> but I get the same thing...
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| 06:57 | css style sheets need work
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| 06:57 | <Q-FUNK> hm?
| |
| 06:58 | Nubae: I'm happy that we finally have a proper web shop engine to somewhat automate the ordering process and thta it supports both credit cards and paypal, but let's just say that I would have used a completely different approach
| |
| 06:58 | <Nubae> making sure text fits for longish names
| |
| 06:59 | deavid has quit IRC | |
| 07:00 | <Nubae> oscommerce is a wonderful e-commerce package
| |
| 07:00 | <Q-FUNK> could be
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| 07:01 | <Nubae> weird, looks like its fixed now, everything displaying nicely
| |
| 07:02 | after clicking around a bit :-)
| |
| 07:02 | btw... I heard from the school I used to work at who ordered the 3 thincans, that they wont finish the order until September when school starts again...
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| 07:02 | <Q-FUNK> doh!
| |
| 07:03 | <Nubae> they told me they already wired the money, but turned out to be a lie I guess
| |
| 07:03 | <Q-FUNK> they might as well cancel it and re-order later
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| 07:03 | <Nubae> yeah
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| 07:03 | indeed
| |
| 07:03 | the whole point was to test it
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| 07:03 | and see which ones to order for the whole school
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| 07:03 | <Q-FUNK> which they won't be doing, since they are running late
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| 07:04 | <Nubae> as usual the developers suffer
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| 07:04 | and then get blamed :-)
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| 07:07 | <Q-FUNK> right, except that you moved on already ;)
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| 07:08 | Subhodip has joined #ltsp | |
| 07:08 | <dukai> dbe62 is not in the shop
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| 07:09 | <Q-FUNK> indeed not, since we only have preproduction models in stock and not many of those are left, yet
| |
| 07:09 | <Nubae> sort of... they still depend on me for the end of the world stuff... the no one else can fix stuff... and do I get paid, no, but I´ll be dammed if I give them a reason to move back to winbloze
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| 07:09 | <Q-FUNK> heh
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| 07:09 | <LastLemming> is it possible to modify ldm text for another language?
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| 07:12 | Blinny has joined #ltsp | |
| 07:16 | kl_eisbaer has joined #ltsp | |
| 07:16 | <cyberorg> hi kl_eisbaer The_Code everyone here, welcome to LTSP-GUI Google Summer of Code project weekly meeting :)
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| 07:17 | jammcq has quit IRC | |
| 07:17 | <kl_eisbaer> hi
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| 07:17 | <The_Code> hi
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| 07:17 | <cyberorg> The_Code, i went through your list of tasks, here are my comments in [] http://pastebin.com/f71f5751d
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| 07:18 | you have covered all the bases, can't think of more tasks than those
| |
| 07:18 | anyone here if you have any suggestions for tasks that LTSP GUI can perform (related to lts.conf) please edit the pastebin and link here
| |
| 07:18 | kl_eisbaer, anything to add to that?
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| 07:19 | <kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: currently not. I think that should cover the most use cases
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| 07:19 | <The_Code> gone threw fine with comments
| |
| 07:21 | <cyberorg> great, we are almost near the half time, so prioritizing would be important, The_Code how are you planning to approaching the GUI designing with these tasks from now onwards
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| 07:21 | would we have enough time to realize all these features?
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| 07:23 | <The_Code> mom
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| 07:24 | <cyberorg> ogra, if you are around please go through the task list, the GUI would be built around those
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| 07:25 | <The_Code> cyberorg: http://www.weisserwolf.net/ltspgui/lts.jpg
| |
| 07:25 | thats the way it looks right now
| |
| 07:25 | the advanced tab is only visible after clicked on advanced button
| |
| 07:26 | the advanced view shows a list of all variables set in the conf and allows you to add single ones and edit
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| 07:26 | <cyberorg> The_Code, anywhere the list of TC assigned to the profile?
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| 07:26 | makghosh has joined #ltsp | |
| 07:27 | <kl_eisbaer> The_Code: looks ok for me. Just one question: do you add the other sections to the "main view" (in your example the "Section" Tab for DELL)?
| |
| 07:27 | * cyberorg would really like confirmation if profile stuff still work in LTSP5 | |
| 07:28 | <cyberorg> we also need a better title for "tasks"
| |
| 07:28 | <The_Code> kl_eisbaer: i don't get you, but if you click on add you get a new view where you can define name comment etc for the new "section"
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| 07:29 | a list for tc with the same configuration will come
| |
| 07:29 | <kl_eisbaer> ok
| |
| 07:30 | <The_Code> the main problem with the tasks for me atm is finding the allowed values
| |
| 07:30 | <cyberorg> The_Code, we will just go with the minimum "known" values
| |
| 07:30 | <The_Code> do i provide a file containing this info or do i parse it from some system file/directory (like in ogra's)
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| 07:31 | so i provide a list with known values
| |
| 07:32 | <cyberorg> yes, we want to make it easy, showing everything will just be confusion
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| 07:32 | <The_Code> good
| |
| 07:33 | i thought of making xml files with known values where possible, containing there value and a more readable name
| |
| 07:33 | <cyberorg> we can display lts-parameters.txt installed by ltsp-server packge in the online help
| |
| 07:33 | <The_Code> where it makes sense (keyboard for example)
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| 07:34 | <cyberorg> that sounds best to me
| |
| 07:35 | The_Code, what is the next step?
| |
| 07:35 | <The_Code> i am currently working on the first tasks
| |
| 07:36 | new binaries with lts.conf part will be there by this weekend, so people can have a look
| |
| 07:36 | (will make to versions, one openSUSE and rest)
| |
| 07:37 | <cyberorg> kl_eisbaer, you also have packages in the pipe?
| |
| 07:38 | <The_Code> the next step then would be to parse an existing lts.conf file
| |
| 07:38 | <cyberorg> kl_eisbaer, added lrupp to the "maintainers" https://build.opensuse.org/project/show?project=server%3Altsp
| |
| 07:39 | The_Code, just go through the timeline and plan the next steps accordingly, small achievable targets
| |
| 07:40 | about rollbacks are you still planning to do it using xml storage or just plain files?
| |
| 07:41 | <The_Code> xml storage
| |
| 07:41 | <cyberorg> ok
| |
| 07:42 | that is it from me, kl_eisbaer anyone else want to add something, or would like to know anything else?
| |
| 07:44 | The_Code, please do a ML post (ltsp-discuss, kiwi-ltsp-users) detailing your ideas ahead, asking for feedback
| |
| 07:45 | <The_Code> cyberorg, yes
| |
| 07:46 | <cyberorg> you can also do a howto compile and use the code from SVN on the ML, so anyone who wants to see the current status can try it out
| |
| 07:47 | <The_Code> k
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| 07:49 | <cyberorg> shall we call it a day ?
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| 08:01 | <LTSPTNK> anyone here with LTSP server in AD domain?
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| 08:03 | gotta go home but will ask same tomorrow again :)
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| 08:17 | <LastLemming> is it possible to chnage ldm language?
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| 09:28 | <jammcq> ogra: hey, did 8.04.1 make it out today?
| |
| 09:29 | <ogra> i thik not officially yet, but the CDs are done ... release announcement isnt yet afaik
| |
| 09:29 | <jammcq> are isos available?
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| 09:29 | <ogra> sure
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| 09:29 | http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/hardy/daily/20080701/
| |
| 09:29 | not called 8.04.1 yet but thats the base ...
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| 09:30 | <jammcq> cool
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| 09:30 | thank you sir
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| 09:30 | <ogra> welcome :)
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| 09:58 | <LastLemming> ogra: is it normal that verification password take long time? like 3-5 min?
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| 09:58 | <LastLemming> I disabled the main dhcp, and the clients I got problem are ok
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| 10:41 | <masus> hi all, my mouse scroll wheel does not work, can anybody help me ? i use debian etch with xfce4. Thanks
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| 11:24 | <kl_eisbaer> masus: add 'Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"' and 'Option "Buttons" "5"' in your xorg.conf should help
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| 11:30 | <masus> kl_eisbaer: Thank u
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| 11:35 | kl_eisbaer: it'S not work may i have to change something lts.conf ?
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| 11:35 | *in lts.conf
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| 11:36 | <kl_eisbaer> => http://ltsp.mirrors.tds.net/pub/ltsp/docs/ltsp-4.1-en.html#AEN1190
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| 11:36 | X_MOUSE_BUTTONS = 5
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| 11:37 | <masus> kl_eisbaer: i'll try
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| 11:37 | thank u
| |
| 11:38 | <kl_eisbaer> masus: if this didn't work, use the XF86CONFIG_FILE option to point to your sepcial xorg.conf for this host
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| 11:40 | masus: HA!
| |
| 11:40 | found it in my config
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| 11:40 | <masus> kl_eisbaer: do i have to shutdown the client after the lts.conf changes ?
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| 11:40 | <kl_eisbaer> my lts.conf contains:
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| 11:40 | <masus> kl_eisbaer: ok
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| 11:40 | <kl_eisbaer> X_MOUSE_BUTTONS = 5 X_ZAxisMapping = "4 5" X_MOUSE_Vendor = "Sysp"
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| 11:41 | X_MOUSE_PROTOCOL = "imps/2" X_MOUSE_DEVICE = "/dev/psaux" X_MOUSE_RESOLUTION = 400
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| 11:41 | Normally a restart of the X-Server on the client should be enough - but a full restart shouldn't harm
| |
| 11:41 | <masus> do a full restart
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| 11:42 | <kl_eisbaer> should be the safer way
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| 11:43 | <masus> yuppppppiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
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| 11:43 | i dont belive , it's work :)
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| 11:44 | kl_eisbaer: Thank u very much
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| 11:44 | <kl_eisbaer> np - have a lot of fun! :-)
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| 11:45 | <masus> :)
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| 12:14 | <Guaraldo> jammcq: Are You there? I need some help over here...
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| 12:15 | <Guaraldo> someone knows what can couse local printers on LTSP5 does't work?
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| 12:16 | I configured lts.conf an booted the client, locally I see the printer, but it does't open 9100 port on client...
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| 12:17 | <ogra> Guaraldo, what distro/release ?
| |
| 12:17 | <Guaraldo> I can print typing "echo test > /dev/usb/lp0".
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| 12:17 | Ubuntu 8.04...
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| 12:17 | ogra: normal package instalation...
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| 12:17 | <ogra> you need to install th eltsp-client package from the hardy-updates repo
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| 12:18 | *the ltsp-client
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| 12:18 | <Nubae> heh sounds Spanish... El TSP cliente packete
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| 12:18 | <ogra> there was a bug thats fixed in hardy-updates ...
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| 12:18 | <Guaraldo> hehehehe
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| 12:18 | <ogra> hehe
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| 12:19 | <Guaraldo> ogra: After that I need to rebuild ltsp-client chroot?
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| 12:19 | <Q-FUNK> el much bugato
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| 12:19 | <ogra> Guaraldo, the image
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| 12:19 | sudo ltsp-update-image should get you going
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| 12:19 | <Guaraldo> Only the image?
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| 12:19 | great... thanks, ogra... I'll do it!
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| 12:19 | <ogra> after you updated the package, yes
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| 12:20 | make also sure your server is up to date from hardy-updates, there were many fixes
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| 12:20 | (we're releasing an 8.04.1 CD today or tomorrow with all fixes)
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| 12:25 | <Nubae> what's cached in German?
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| 12:26 | <laga> Nubae: context?
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| 12:26 | <Nubae> cached package data
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| 12:26 | cached files
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| 12:27 | <laga> humm. zwischengespeichert(e)
| |
| 12:27 | * ogra would say "zwischengespeichert" ... | |
| 12:27 | <ogra> literally that would be "interim stored" or so
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| 12:27 | <Nubae> yeah thats what google gave me too, so its not been Englishified... like gecachete
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| 12:27 | :-)
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| 12:28 | <ogra> you can say that but it looks very odd writeen
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| 12:28 | *written
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| 12:28 | <laga> well, i'd say "Paketdaten im Cache" +
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| 12:28 | <ogra> for a german at least
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| 12:28 | <Nubae> im cache sounds good
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| 12:28 | thanks
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| 12:29 | <laga> or "im Zwischenspeicher" ;) depends on the audience
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| 12:30 | or maybe even "gepuffert" (buffered), although i don't like that word
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| 12:30 | <Nubae> ok... how about Pruned
| |
| 12:30 | as in a pruned installatin
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| 12:31 | <Nubae> eine beschnitene installation?
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| 12:31 | sounds odd
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| 12:31 | <laga> sounds painful.
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| 12:32 | <laga> Nubae: well, what is a "pruned" installation, in your words?
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| 12:32 | <Nubae> Germans have taken so many tech words form English almost all of it is mixed... can I say cleaned instead of prined
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| 12:32 | pruned
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| 12:32 | its not my program... helping to translate smart...
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| 12:32 | <laga> gesäubert? aufgeräumt?
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| 12:33 | <Nubae> hell pruned sounds weird even in English
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| 12:33 | <laga> well, you prune trees - smart might refer to package trees
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| 12:47 | <Nubae> laga: how about Software repository?
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| 12:47 | <ogra> software archiv
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| 12:48 | <wwx_> zahnrad is more logical than gear. so much about english
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| 12:49 | <ogra> its a wheel that has teeth ... so teethwheel is kond of logical :)
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| 12:49 | *kind
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| 12:50 | <Nubae> it is indeed
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| 12:50 | <ogra> or rather toothwheel which is less logical but the right literal translation
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| 12:51 | <wwx_> btw, in estonian this has exactly same meaning as in german
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| 12:51 | <ogra> really ?
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| 12:51 | <wwx_> yep. hammasratas
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| 12:51 | <Guaraldo> ogra: It worked...
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| 12:51 | <wwx_> hammas=zahn and (und) ratas=rad
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| 12:51 | <ogra> Guaraldo, great :) good to have feedback on the fixes :)
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| 12:57 | <Nubae> last one... the content file...
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| 12:58 | and not as in happy... :-)
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| 13:07 | <warren> ogra: how do you folks figure out what exactly needs to be in XKB* options in lts.conf for a particular language?
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| 13:07 | ogra: (how the heck do you tell people in docs to figure it out themselves)
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| 13:08 | <ogra> i can just pull it from the servers setup
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| 13:08 | <ltsppbot> "ogra" pasted "ubuntu console-setup" (51 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/17
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| 13:09 | <ogra> i dont have to care, the servers installer did that for me already
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| 13:09 | ubuntu just defaults to server setup for lang and keyboard, the admin can override
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| 13:13 | warren, beyond that you can only point people to /usr/share/X11/xkb
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| 13:13 | it has subdirs named like the options
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| 13:13 | <warren> you mean you write to lts.conf automatically?
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| 13:13 | <ogra> i thik man setxkbmap talks about that
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| 13:13 | no
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| 13:14 | i just copy the server confg files into the chroot
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| 13:14 | ad let the ubuntu bootprocess do the rest
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| 13:23 | <Blinny> What's the best way to share /home across multiple office sites in an LTSP environment? I'm thinking of an LTSP server at each side, and mounting /home via NFS from the master server, but I'm worried about speed.
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| 13:23 | And, if I do NFS, should I mount /home, or just each individual user's /home directory as a separate share?
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| 13:28 | <Nuba1> best way would be ssh tunnel
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| 13:28 | but nfs works quite well
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| 13:28 | <Blinny> Nuba1: Well, I've already got things going through IPSec
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| 13:29 | Nuba1: (which will compress & encrypt the traffic)
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| 13:29 | How would the ssh tunnel work?
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| 13:29 | <ogra> do an sshfs mount from an ldm rc.d script :)
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| 13:30 | <Blinny> ogra: Similar to the process checking Gadi's been cranking on?
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| 13:30 | <ogra> ah, wait, that might not work ...
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| 13:30 | ssh will not be happy if you dont have homedir on login
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| 13:30 | <Blinny> ogra: Either way, it'd be encrypted twice. Once through sshfs and once through the tunnel.
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| 13:31 | <ogra> and pam-mount or pam-script are both tricky with ssh
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| 13:31 | thats different
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| 13:31 | one encryption is per user so the other cant see what you do
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| 13:32 | the other is per network connection, everyone can see what everyone does inside the tunnel
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| 13:32 | <Blinny> But encrypted session (LDM_DIRECTX=false) plus proper file permissions should negate the first
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| 13:33 | <ogra> but you somehow have to convince ssh to not be unhappy for the first connect
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| 13:33 | <Blinny> Yeah.
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| 13:33 | <ogra> no
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| 13:33 | its only the connection client->server you encrypt with ldm
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| 13:33 | what you want is server->fileserver
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| 13:34 | <Blinny> ogra: That's what IPSec is for.
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| 13:34 | <ogra> and server->fileserver is encrypted as the whole pipe
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| 13:34 | but not per wire that runs in the pipe
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| 13:34 | <Blinny> OH!
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| 13:34 | Gotchya.
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| 13:35 | <ogra> not sure how much security you need though
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| 13:35 | <Blinny> I'm generally overly cautious re: security.
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| 13:36 | <ogra> it often suffices to have the pipe encrypted ... but sshfs is indeed an elegant addon
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| 13:36 | <Blinny> But why is sshfs innately "better" than NFS for this sort of application?
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| 13:36 | I would assume NFS, with its long history of doing similar things, would be better. I have heard file locking horror stories though..
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| 13:36 | <ogra> yeah, its surely also easier to maintain
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| 13:37 | <Blinny> For sure. Config & forget, hopefully.
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| 13:37 | <ogra> and if you get run down by that bus thing your successor will be more likely to understand the setup
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| 13:37 | <Blinny> Are there any other distributed filesystem options?
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| 13:37 | <ogra> cifs
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| 13:37 | <Blinny> ogra: You'd be surprised how many times that is mentioned around here.
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| 13:37 | * Blinny shudders | |
| 13:38 | <Blinny> CIFS, like SMB??
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| 13:38 | <ogra> yep
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| 13:38 | i heard its pretty fast
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| 13:38 | <Q-FUNK> barebone smb is gone, mind you
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| 13:38 | <Blinny> gawd
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| 13:38 | <ogra> in linux<->linux scenarios
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| 13:39 | <Blinny> I've put up with it so long in windows<->linux environments that it makes me physically ill to consider continuing to do so.
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| 13:39 | * ogra is a big fan of sshfs though thats why i try everything to imlement in it ... so dont listen to much to me :) | |
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| 13:39 | <ogra> *to implement everything
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| 13:40 | <Blinny> ogra: Do you know if it's a kernel mod + userspace tools, or do I need to compile a custom kernel?
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| 13:40 | Theoretically I could mount the entire /home instead of user-by-user
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| 13:40 | <ogra> cifs ? well, you need to set up samba on your fileserver ad mount /home as a share
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| 13:41 | same as in nfs
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| 13:41 | or you can do a finer grained setup
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| 13:41 | <Blinny> No. sshfs
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| 13:41 | <ogra> ssjfs is fuse based
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| 13:41 | *sshfs
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| 13:42 | but works with every ssh server
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| 13:42 | <Blinny> So having fuse in /proc/filesystems means sshfs will work?
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| 13:42 | <ogra> yes
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| 13:42 | <Blinny> Nice.
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| 13:42 | ogra: I'll play with it.
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| 13:42 | <ogra> apt-get install sshfs :) just try it
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| 13:42 | <Blinny> ogra: Sure sure. I'm sure I'll be instantly struck by why it's vastly superior to NFS.
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| 13:43 | <Blinny> (;
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| 13:43 | <Nubae> Blinny: and then you can write up how u did it -grin-
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| 13:43 | <ogra> because it works (and encrypts) per user, you dont need any server setup etc
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| 13:44 | and for me most important, it works reliably over the internet
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| 13:44 | (as long as you have the bandwith)
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| 13:44 | <Blinny> That's key.
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| 13:44 | Only T1 on both sides.
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| 13:44 | <Blinny> Well, fraction. Some channels are voice.
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| 13:45 | Do you know offhand if you can over-mount with sshfs?
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| 13:45 | <ogra> no
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| 13:45 | (i dont)
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| 13:46 | <Blinny> Meaning, locally I have /home/fun that has contents. With NFS I can mount server:/mount/point to /home/fun and it replaces /home/fun
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| 13:46 | after unmounting, local contents are back
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| 13:46 | OK
| |
| 13:46 | I'll try it
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| 13:46 | <ogra> but thats a matter of mount, no of the fs iirc
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| 13:46 | should always work that way unless you merge mounts with unionfs or aufs
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| 13:46 | <Blinny> fuse: mountpoint is not empty - fuse: if you are sure this is safe, use the 'nonempty' mount option
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| 13:48 | But yes, with the nonempty it will work.
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| 13:48 | Permissions are funky though. Hmm.
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| 13:48 | That might work. I'll add it to the TODO list for after the weekend.
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| 13:49 | The trick will be whether it's any faster than NFS for things like Firefox caches and OOo .openoffice2 writes.
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| 13:49 | I'm really surprised this hasn't been done a lot before. I'm sure it has, just perhaps not in the LTSP realm.
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| 13:50 | <ogra> i guess mounting /home is the common way
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| 13:51 | (via nfs)
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| 13:53 | <Nubae> I tried to mount /home via ssh for fat clients, without success
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| 13:54 | <Blinny> But even when it is completed, Szeredi points out that sshfs will not replace high-end systems like NFS or VPNs
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| 13:54 | <Nubae> so if you can do it Blinny, would love to hear how its done
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| 13:57 | <ogra> Nubae, oyu cn only mount /home/$USER that way
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| 13:57 | fuse is userspace operating with user permissions
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| 13:59 | <Nubae> ah :-(
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| 14:00 | ogra: whats the state of the edubuntu handbook? id like to help translating it to English
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| 14:00 | sorry Spanish doh
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| 14:00 | <ogra> its written for gutsy and missing updates
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| 14:01 | <Nubae> maybe its better served adapting to more distros?
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| 14:01 | <Nubae> the distro integrated ltsp handbook :-)
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| 14:01 | <ogra> the ltsp part in any case
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| 14:01 | <ogra> the edubuntu parts not so much :)
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| 14:01 | <Nubae> heh, right
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| 14:02 | so someone needs to take over updating it to recent distros and make it a bit like plugins... a common part with distro specific stuff
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| 14:05 | mhterres has joined #ltsp | |
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| 14:09 | <ogra> well, the basics should be identical on all distros
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| 14:10 | <ogra> ltsp-build-client needs to work similar on fedora, ubuntu, debian and gentoo at least
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| 14:10 | ltsp-update-sshkeys/-kernels as well
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| 14:10 | <Nubae> right
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| 14:11 | <ogra> lts.conf values, server sizing docs etc will all be the same
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| 14:11 | <Nubae> well, how would you go about starting?
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| 14:11 | <ogra> -update-iage is oly in dostros using images though
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| 14:11 | *image
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| 14:12 | ubuntu by default, deban optional ... i dont think fedora has it
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| 14:21 | <Nubae> ogra: so how do you suggest one starts with that kind of project?
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| 14:21 | take old handbook and start converting to distro-non specific content?
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| 14:22 | and then the ubuntu stuff put in ubuntu section?
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| 14:22 | is there an online tool for documentation like this?
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| 14:24 | <Blinny> Thanks, all. Later.
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| 14:41 | <Jane_ux> I have a Ubuntu/LTSP network with approx. 200 user, which kind of internet connection may I have (bandwitch)?
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| 14:42 | <Nubae> Jane_ux: the biggest possible :-)
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| 14:43 | not a useful answer, but the question is a little vague
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| 14:43 | <Jane_ux> :)
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| 14:44 | ok, lets say
| |
| 14:46 | I have 200 machines as thin clients in a Ubuntu/LTSP network, if all the machines are browsing a normal website at the same time, which connection approx. should i have, 3Gb is enought? 50Gb?
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| 14:47 | <Nubae> megabit u mean, right?
| |
| 14:47 | or u talking about non internet bandwidth - internal bandwidth?
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| 15:39 | <Bitland> hola gente
| |
| 15:40 | alguien sabría decirme pq el terminal tonto entra por usuario administrador y el resto da error de password?
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| 15:44 | <opensauce> Hi all
| |
| 15:45 | how would I setup thin client to login to the server without a password?
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| 15:48 | <sutula> opensauce: There are some options in lts.conf: LDM_AUTOLOGIN, LDM_USERNAME, LDM_PASSWORD
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| 15:49 | (true, username, and password)
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| 15:49 | e.g. LDM_AUTOLOGIN = true
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| 15:50 | <opensauce> ok so is it that file Im working in to make this work?
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| 15:50 | <sutula> Yes
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| 15:51 | <opensauce> and thats in the opt/ltsp/i386/etc dir?
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| 15:51 | <sutula> yes
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| 15:51 | <opensauce> cool will try thanks!
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| 15:51 | <sutula> np
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| 15:54 | <Bitland> After some changes in the DNS server, the terminal only goes in through the user that realized the installation of ubuntu, the rest says that wrong password, ¿by where begin? P.D. The passwords are correct, bought in the host
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| 15:55 | Forgive my English, use an automatic translator
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| 16:05 | Bitland has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:05 | <Bitland> hello again
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| 16:09 | <Bitland> ¿Why can not go in like "normal" user from the thin client? It gives wrong password with the rest of users. And are well written sure, checked in the server, where himself can go in.
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| 16:14 | <vagrantc> Bitland: which linux distro?
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| 16:15 | <vagrantc> Bitland: if ubuntu: ltsp-update-sshkeys ; ltsp-update-image
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| 16:15 | Bitland: if debian, just run ltsp-update-sshkeys
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| 16:15 | i don't know with other distros.
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| 16:16 | <Bitland> vagrantc: thank you very much, ill try it now (ubuntu 8.04)
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| 16:16 | <vagrantc> Bitland: hablo un poco de espanol, tambien ...
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| 16:16 | <Bitland> pues sería mejor para mí :)
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| 16:17 | como funcione le pongo una vela a Santa Rita :-)
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| 16:18 | Parallel mksquashfs: Using 2 processors
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| 16:18 | Creating little endian 3.1 filesystem on /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img.tmp, block size 131072.
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| 16:18 | [======== ] 2767/20725 13%
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| 16:18 | ya tengo ganas de que acabe :9
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| 16:19 | es una verdadera maravilla la instalación de ltsp desde ubuntu, y funcionan los dispositivos en local, es un gran adelanto para ltsp que se instale tan fácil desde las distribuciones
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| 16:20 | por cierto, a veces no coge la máxima resolución de la pantalla del terminal ligero, y al conectarse en el servidor pone la resolución que se dejó en el terminal, ¿cómo se puede arreglar?
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| 16:20 | <vagrantc> hablo solo un poco :)
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| 16:24 | <Bitland> pues no funciona, ya ni siquiera el administrador :-(
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| 16:57 | <warren> hmm
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| 16:58 | vagrantc: do you know historical reasons why localdevs would stop working with LDM_DIRECTX=yes?
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| 17:00 | <Metatron> im trying to get etherboot going, when i use mknbi-linux it ends with error vmlinuz: file not found using this command :/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp$ sudo mknbi-linux --output=vmlinuz.etherboot --rootdir="/dev/ram0" --append="rw" vmlinuz initrd.img ideas?
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| 17:00 | ah nm i see now
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| 17:02 | muh2000 has joined #ltsp | |
| 17:02 | <muh2000> hi
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| 17:02 | can it be that LTSP 5 does all networking stuff over ssh?
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| 17:04 | <Bitland> muh2000: ¿Have reviewed as it remains the dhcp.conf?
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| 17:04 | <muh2000> Bitland: que?
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| 17:04 | <Bitland> muh2000: perdon, era para Metatron
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| 17:05 | Metatron: ¿Have reviewed as it remains the dhcp.conf?
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| 17:05 | <muh2000> the issue: videos lag as hell. the cpu usage on the terminal goes up with ssh using like 70%
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| 17:06 | <Bitland> bye
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| 17:07 | <muh2000> hmpf
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| 17:08 | <vagrantc> warren: improper use of xauth, mainly.
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| 17:09 | warren: although that was introduced to provide a modicrum of security ... before that anyone could connect to ltspfsd.
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| 17:11 | <Metatron> bitland, im trying to use mknbi to take my Linux kernel and put it in the proper format needed to load via the Etherboot loader, but im not sure im going about it correctly, i havent changed the dhcp.conf yet as i cant get the modified kernel right, the .conf is next after this, im stull confuzed
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| 17:12 | should the --rootdir=dir where that ltsp-build-client created?
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| 17:12 | i tried that still same error vmlinuz: file not found, im missing something basic
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| 17:13 | the thinclient's /boot folder is empty
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| 17:14 | <vagrantc> Metatron: what linux distribution are you using?
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| 17:14 | <Metatron> ubuntu
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| 17:14 | <vagrantc> that should support etherboot out of the box.
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| 17:15 | <Metatron> ok, then it must something im missing on the client end, ill read some more
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| 17:15 | <vagrantc> although very old versions of etherboot may require a different build
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| 17:15 | <Metatron> i should just set the client's bios to boot from lan, reboot and off i go right?
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| 17:15 | <vagrantc> that's the hope
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| 17:16 | well, if it's in bios, it's probably PXE
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| 17:16 | <Metatron> is there a way to monitor connection attemps, or just a log
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| 17:17 | <Metatron> my eth card has different revisions, and im not sure pxe is enabled for my card, can't seem to nail down the docs
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| 17:17 | more digging....hehe
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| 17:17 | this is just a test system ill be using other gear if i implement it
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| 17:18 | any log i can look at for failed lan boot on the client machine?
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| 17:19 | guess thats too gut level for a log
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| 17:20 | <sutula> muh2000: Did you ever get an answer to your question? If not, LTSP5 does use ssh for all traffic by default
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| 17:20 | <muh2000> sutula: no answer except yours :)
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| 17:20 | is there a way around SSH?
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| 17:20 | <sutula> muh2000: Two ways:
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| 17:21 | The "easiest" is LDM_DIRECTX in lts.conf
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| 17:21 | It leaves ssh in place, but gets rid of the encryption
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| 17:21 | <muh2000> i tried mounting on the shell (not on the server) but the filesmanager catches only the serverside stuff
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| 17:21 | hmmmmmmmmmmmm
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| 17:22 | <sutula> Otherwise, you can configure it to use XDMCP instead, but that takes some work and is a lot more insecure
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| 17:23 | <muh2000> sutula: is there a way to link the client local filesystem to the GUI(kde/whatever)?
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| 17:24 | * sutula doesn't understand the question, and probably won't have the answer to that level of stuff | |
| 17:24 | <sutula> muh2000: What are you trying to achieve?
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| 17:25 | <muh2000> sutula: not using SSH for filebrowsing or hmmm dont know how to say it.
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| 17:25 | the videos lag on the client ---->> ssh process uses 70% or more.
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| 17:26 | so i want to open files on the client that are stored on the server without using SSH
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| 17:26 | <sutula> muh2000: That's mostly the encryption/decryption burning CPU on both client and server...LDM_DIRECTX will fix that
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| 17:26 | <muh2000> sutula: without encryption everything will be viewable?!?
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| 17:26 | <sutula> muh2000: Start there, and see if you need to do more tuning
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| 17:26 | <muh2000> for wireshark..
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| 17:27 | * sutula doesn't know if that will "fix it", but that's the first step | |
| 17:27 | <muh2000> LDM_DIRECTX=True?
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| 17:27 | <sutula> muh2000: The next "step" people usually do is to install apps locally on the client, but that's harder
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| 17:27 | muh2000: Yes, RE LDM_DIRECTX
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| 17:28 | <muh2000> sutula: "RE"?
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| 17:28 | <sutula> muh2000: "RE" == "concerning"
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| 17:28 | * muh2000 confused | |
| 17:28 | <sutula> LDM_DIRECTX = True # This, to skip compression if using
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| 17:28 | # ldm instead of startx
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| 17:29 | muh2000: ^^^ from my lts.conf
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| 17:29 | <muh2000> ^^
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| 17:30 | <sutula> Reboot the client after that
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| 17:30 | <muh2000> already did that :)
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| 17:30 | installing apps on the client... wouldnt that make it a fat client?
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| 17:31 | <sutula> muh2000: Yes
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| 17:31 | muh2000: People go in that direction when all else fails (RE performance), but takes more client hardware
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| 17:31 | <Metatron> ok maybe the problem is the dhcp.config it is set to /ltsp/pxelinux.0 ubuntu docs say change it to /ltsp/vmlinuz.etherboot but there is not file there, not even a /ltsp folder ?
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| 17:32 | <muh2000> sutula: sound/video is sync now. i think that fixed that ^^
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| 17:32 | * sutula nods | |
| 17:32 | <muh2000> thanks fot the help :)
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| 17:33 | <sutula> no problem...see ya
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| 17:34 | <muh2000> but there is another thing.... :D the soundchip is nearly mute. it doesnt have enough power on the output (lts.conf already has volume = 100) is it possible to do something like volume = 200 ?
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| 17:36 | bad thing i cannot replace it since it is onboard and there is no expansion slot like pci...
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| 17:42 | <sutula> muh2000: External speakers? Turn up the volume on them?
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| 17:43 | * sutula doesn't know much about muh2000's setup | |
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| 17:46 | <muh2000> sutula: external yes. but i dont like turning it up, because when i switch the input to another computer playing music, my neighbours 2 floors above me would hear me. and i cannot listen to the music on a very load level because the volumecontroll would be @ 100% and still very quiet. it is connected to a harman kardon reciever with 200 watt speakers...
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| 17:48 | <sutula> muh2000: Unless there is a volume control (mixer applet) on the desktop that is turned down too far, I don't know where else to look...perhaps others here have more experience with the sound systems, or ask on the IRC channel that supports your server's distro (since, at this point, it's mostly like running on the server)
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| 17:51 | <muh2000> mixerapplet like alsamixer or kmix?
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| 17:51 | <sutula> Yes
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| 17:53 | <muh2000> sound volume on the client is the same when changing volume @ alsamixer or kmix
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| 17:54 | * sutula suspects the applet isn't configured to use the right sound system (e.g. ALSA or ESD or whatever) | |
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| 17:54 | <muh2000> pulseaudio -> alsamixer showed also pulse audio
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| 17:58 | pavucontrol doesnt change anything too
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| 18:28 | <rcy> this isnt strictly ltsp related, but I'm running into size limitations loading initrd.gz files netbooting powerpcs with yaboot (hardy installer). anyone have any work arounds or ideas?
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