IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 17 May 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:07 | <vagrantc> vlt: ltsp-chroot apt-get install $package
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| 01:08 | vlt: that will make sure services aren't run for the vast majority of cases, the others are serious bugs.
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| 09:53 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg?
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| 10:02 | <mealstrom> hi, how to manually set max amount of RAM for lts-client ?
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| 10:02 | <Hyperbyte> mealstrom, max amount of ram?
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| 10:04 | <mealstrom> Hyperbyte: server got about 8 Gb of RAM. and 3 clients eats 1Gb per client. Ive got nbd-swap option. when ram memory is full and data goes to swap - ive got system freeze\
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| 10:07 | <Hyperbyte> Ah, so you want to set the maximum amount of nbd-swap memory a client can take?
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| 10:11 | <mealstrom> Hyperbyte: i want to exclude situation when nbd-swap is needed. So i have to set about 1.5Gb or 2 Gb of RAM memory for each user. Dont know how to do this
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| 10:22 | <Hyperbyte> I do not really understand your question to be honest. This might be due to my limited understanding of nbd-swap...
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| 10:23 | But as far as I know, nbd-swap is used for clients with very little memory in the client itself. nbd-swap does not have anything to do with the available memory for applications running on the server, assuming you're using thin clients.
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| 10:24 | If you're using fat clients, nbd-swap might be useful if you have clients with very little memory, but then you can't really 'exclude' the situations where nbd-swap is needed, because you'd need it.
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| 10:24 | At least that's how I always understood it.
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| 10:24 | (correct me if I'm wrong please)
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| 10:31 | <samba35> which nic support ipxe ?
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| 10:34 | <muppis> Mostly everyone. ipxe is mainly meant for nics that doesn't contain build-in pxe, but can be used wher wanted or needed.
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| 10:35 | I use ipxe in multiboot with Windows because it's easier to handle than normal pxe booting.
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| 10:38 | <samba35> ok
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| 10:39 | i use ltsp almost 6-7 year back now i want to start again with ubuntu 12.04 server
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| 10:40 | do i require boot rom to be program as novell ?
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| 10:40 | novell diskless client
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| 10:42 | <muppis> I don't have any experience from those clients, sorry.
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| 10:42 | <samba35> ok
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| 10:43 | but when you boot windows client you don't have to remove rom from nic and program it
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| 11:23 | <jonne> Hello
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| 11:24 | I'm looking for some help
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| 11:24 | <muppis> Just ask.
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| 11:24 | <jonne> I've build a zentyal-ltsp server
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| 11:24 | zentyal is a ubuntu server
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| 11:25 | however, i can only login with the administrator accounts
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| 11:25 | when i login with a user account, it hangs after login
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| 11:28 | <andygraybeal> yay zentyal-ltsp!!!
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| 11:28 | brb, don't go anywhere
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| 11:39 | <mealstrom> is there any oprtion to set max RAM allocation to lts-client?
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| 11:39 | *option
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| 11:56 | <alkisg> !gnome-classic | echo Hyperbyte:
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| 11:56 | <ltsp`> Hyperbyte: gnome-classic: To select gnome-classic as your default session, put this line in your lts.conf: LDM_SESSION="gnome-session --session=gnome-classic"
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| 11:59 | <Hyperbyte> Does this work for 12.04 as well?
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| 12:02 | <jonne> should work yea
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| 12:04 | <Hyperbyte> "Failed to load session gnome-classic"
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| 12:04 | <alkisg> sudo apt-get install gnome-session on the server
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| 12:04 | *gnome-shell, sorry
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| 12:04 | Or gnome-fallback something
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| 12:05 | gnome-session-fallback
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| 12:05 | <Hyperbyte> gnome-session-fallback
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| 12:05 | Yeah
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| 12:05 | <alkisg> !forget gnome-classic
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| 12:05 | <ltsp`> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 12:06 | <alkisg> !learn gnome-classic as To select gnome-classic as your default session, install the gnome-session-fallback package, and put this line in your lts.conf: LDM_SESSION="gnome-session --session=gnome-classic"
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| 12:06 | <ltsp`> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 12:07 | <jonne> what is gnome-shell 3.4 for gnome-session?
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| 12:08 | is that gnome-clasic?
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| 12:11 | <Hyperbyte> Now it logs in
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| 12:11 | <Hyperbyte> But it takes a long time (+- 30 seconds) and then displays screen double and with pink/green... I'll take a picture
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| 12:13 | <Hyperbyte> Funny thing is, when I press ctrl+alt+t for a terminal, the terminal does look okay
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| 12:13 | <alkisg> !gnome-fallback
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| 12:13 | <ltsp`> alkisg: gnome-fallback: To select gnome-fallback as your default session, put this line in your lts.conf: LDM_SESSION="gnome-session --session=gnome-fallback"
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| 12:14 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: ^
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| 12:14 | Without installing anything else
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| 12:14 | This disables graphics effects, I think
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| 12:16 | <andygraybeal> :)))
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| 12:19 | <Hyperbyte> Hah... that seems to help.
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| 12:22 | <jonne> wb andy
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| 12:28 | <andygraybeal> :)
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| 12:28 | <andygraybeal> hi jonne
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| 12:28 | jonne, i can't wait to give the zentyal-ltsp a shot on my system! i run zentyal, and ltsp.. but not together!
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| 12:29 | <jonne> you should give it a shot yeah
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| 12:29 | <andygraybeal> er, well i mean i have them in the same environment, but i'm not using zentyal's-ltsp
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| 12:29 | <jonne> i'm having a problem though
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| 12:29 | <andygraybeal> it's still in alpha stage right?
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| 12:29 | <jonne> it's official a beta now..
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| 12:29 | <andygraybeal> to come out in version zentyal 3.0?
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| 12:29 | ah okay
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| 12:29 | <jonne> yeah
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| 12:29 | <andygraybeal> maybe give #zentyal a shot?
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| 12:30 | i hang out there too
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| 12:30 | <jonne> cool thanks
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| 12:30 | <andygraybeal> i'm very happy that the zentyal people are working on integrating ltsp into their packge!
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| 12:30 | <jonne> yeah, me too
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| 12:30 | it works great, just one thing doesn't.. at least for me
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| 12:33 | <mealstrom> any idea how to set 4Gb of RAM to thin client at ltsp-server? any option at lts.conf or something like that? Like nbdswap.conf(SIZE=limit) ?
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| 12:37 | <alkisg> mealstrom: there's /etc/ltsp/nbdswapd.conf, yes
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| 12:37 | <PrA3> Hi
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| 12:39 | Does anybody know if ltsp-cluster is available on Debian Wheezy? I am trying to set it up, but I am missing options like "--ltsp-cluster" when trying to create the chroot. Many thanks
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| 12:39 | <alkisg> PrA3: I think it's not packaged in debian wheezy
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| 12:40 | It's probably ubuntu-only
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| 12:41 | <mealstrom> alkisg: and what about RAM size? ive got clients with 1GB ot 1.5 GB of RAM. Also ive got NBDSWAP(512 MB)= enabled. When there is over RAM limit usage(firefox/skype/some video etc) and needed 1Gb and 64Mb () RAM memory goes to swap. With this ive got system freeze for this time. How can i fix this ?
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| 12:41 | <markit> alkisg: hi, how are you? if short to explain, what are you working on related to ltsp these days?
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| 12:42 | <mealstrom> I can allow client to have 2 or 3 GB of ram per client. Where can i set up this ?
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| 12:42 | <PrA3> thank you alkisg , it looks like I will need to stick with the standalone version and expand the num. of servers then :)
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| 12:42 | <alkisg> mealstrom: you want to limit RAM per client?! Clients don't use server RAM
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| 12:42 | Maybe you mean per user?
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| 12:43 | Hi markit, basically the ltsp-pnp part, which is now called `ltsp-update-image --cleanup /`
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| 12:43 | <markit> oh, cool :)
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| 12:43 | <mealstrom> alkisg: per user . When i looks top or htop there is amount of ram (per user i suppose)
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| 12:44 | alkisg: or just free -m - - ive got 1gb total
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| 12:44 | <alkisg> mealstrom: limiting the amount of RAM per user (or process) isn't something LTSP specific... check man ulimit etc
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| 12:45 | But I'm guessing this isn't your _real_ problem, you just think it will help, but I don't think it will.
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| 12:45 | <markit> mealstrom: btw, are you using thin clients of fat clients setup?
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| 12:46 | * markit confused | |
| 12:46 | <mealstrom> markit: fat and thin. Problem is with thin
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| 12:47 | <markit> mealstrom: thin use server ram, so what is the goal of limit user's usage? have it crash or swap sooner?
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| 12:48 | <mealstrom> markit: i dont limit, i want them to use more memory.
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| 12:48 | <markit> if they run programs that need a lot of ram, you have no choice OMHO. They will use ram and/or swap
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| 12:48 | mealstrom: don't they already use all the available?
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| 12:48 | <alkisg> mealstrom: Thin clients with 1 Gb RAM + 512 MB swap have RAM problems?! I don't think you're explaining this well..
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| 12:49 | mealstrom: I think the fastest way is to write your whole story in pastebin, and send the link to us
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| 12:49 | (or send it to the mailing list if you don't find an answer here)
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| 12:49 | <mealstrom> alkisg: ive got problem when RAM goes to SWAP. I dont know how to test if swap works
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| 12:49 | <markit> mealstrom: thin clients are just "dumb terminal" displaying output of server-executed programs (more or less)
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| 12:49 | <alkisg> !localxterm
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| 12:49 | <ltsp`> alkisg: localxterm: Any applications that you launch on a thin client actually run on the server. However, if in a client you run 'ltsp-localapps xterm', a local xterm will open, and any commands that you enter there will be executed locally on the client.
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| 12:50 | <alkisg> run "free" inside a localxterm
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| 12:50 | You'll see if swap works or not
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| 12:50 | <markit> mealstrom: how much ram does your server has?
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| 12:50 | <mealstrom> swap 512 / free 512 . memory total 1000/used 951
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| 12:50 | markit: 8Gb
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| 12:51 | <alkisg> mealstrom: a thin client uses 951 mb ram? Do you have a lot of localapps there, like firefox?
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| 12:51 | <mealstrom> alkisg: firefox (5 tabs), sflphone, evolution... they eats ram
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| 12:52 | <alkisg> mealstrom: are they localapps?
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| 12:52 | If not, they would be on the server, not the client
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| 12:52 | <markit> alkisg: thin/fat ram threshold (or whatever spelling it has) isn't defaulted to 348 or something low like that?
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| 12:52 | so it should be a fat one
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| 12:52 | <alkisg> (03:46:47 μμ) mealstrom: markit: fat and thin. Problem is with thin
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| 12:52 | Aren't we talking about the problems he has only with thin clients?
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| 12:53 | Why would he tell us about a fat client RAM statistics if he has no problem with them?
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| 12:53 | <markit> alkisg: I've the feeling he thinks is thin but are not
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| 12:53 | <mealstrom> hm... maybe there is with localapps. ill check
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| 12:53 | <alkisg> He surely needs to explain more :)
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| 12:53 | <markit> well, I usually add confusion so better just read :)
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| 12:53 | <bieb> alkisg: I asked yesterday if there was a way to map any USB device plugged into a thin client to /home/%username% instead of it mapping to /media/%username%. I am using ubuntu 10.04 (changing to 12.04 next week). Vagrantc said it is not possible.. do you have any ideas how I can make this work with a link or something? The issue is when a student plugs thumb drive in and is in word or whatever, its hard to find the USB, because they aren't taught to go to file
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| 12:54 | <markit> alkisg: btw, I could have a problem with printer applet in kubuntu 12.04, I will investigate and, if you have an interest in kde and troubleshoot it, let you know
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| 12:55 | <alkisg> bieb: not in /home/username, as that's their whole home dir, but in /home/username/somewhere/. You should be able to do that, or create a link, with udev rules. But I never use local devices so I'm not the right person to ask about this.
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| 12:55 | <markit> alkisg: btw2, I've tested a WB velociraptor, real fast hd (2x normal sata) just in case you need faster storage cheaper than ssd in big sizes
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| 12:56 | (I know you tell me hd is not big issue, ram is and it's used as cache)
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| 12:56 | <bieb> alkisg: so create a link for /home/username/USB that points to /media/username?
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| 12:56 | <alkisg> bieb: sure, you could do that too
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| 12:56 | Even with a logon script
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| 12:57 | <bieb> alkisg: the only thing I can think of that may be an issue is it doesnt name each device the same thing
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| 12:59 | <mealstrom> alkisg: there was no right to change swapfiles (nbd) so users cant put any info in swap.
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| 13:04 | <alkisg> bieb: if you make the link to /media/username, it shouldn't matter, as it would be a subfolder.
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| 13:06 | <Hyperbyte> 12.04, gnome-session-fallback... there's no logout option anywhere in the panel menu.
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| 13:06 | I can log out when I press ctrl+alt+del, but how can I get it in the menu?
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| 13:48 | <mealstrom> strategic question, if i run build-ltsp-client serveral times what would happen with my existing configuration ? say ive made ubuntu-desktop and now will create edubuntu (with different base dirs). Will i lost first one, i ill be able to select what to boot ?
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| 14:00 | <vlt> mealstrom: First: It’s ltsp-build-client, second: It will complain about existing chroot image, I think.
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| 14:09 | <mealstrom> vlt: yes, ltsp-build-client. dont want to try on production system :D
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| 14:15 | <vlt> mealstrom: Have a look at `ltsp-build-client --extra-help`. I think you can specify an alternate base directory for test setups.
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| 14:18 | <mealstrom> vlt: i saw that, but i dont have test system, and im dont want to test this on production server.
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| 14:22 | looks like tftp server sets what to boot
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| 14:23 | <bieb> I am rebuilding my 10.04 server moving to 12.04 next week. what are some of the config files I should save from 10.04 for the transition? I am keeping the network config, what else??
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| 14:25 | <mealstrom> what about modifying ltsp-build-client argumets? like --help and -- extra-help to --help-more .. it will be more easy to add like up-arrow then -more . and now from --help to --extra-help it much more )
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| 15:20 | <Hyperbyte> mealstrom, that's what man pages are for. ;-)
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| 15:21 | <mealstrom> ;)you knew the answer
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| 15:25 | <||cw> or just ltsp-build-client --help | less
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| 15:50 | <vagrantc> hmmm...
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| 15:51 | swap, swap swap.
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| 15:51 | pesky mozilla-based apps.
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| 16:25 | <Mava> swap a troll ?
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| 16:26 | <vagrantc> alkisg: oh, don't know if you noticed, wouter uploaded a new nbd that creates /etc/nbd-server/config by default :)
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| 16:27 | * vagrantc cheers | |
| 16:27 | <alkisg> Hi vagrantc, nope, I haven't, is it using the .tmpl file?
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| 16:27 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yup
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| 16:27 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 16:27 | <vagrantc> alkisg: well, at least, that's what wouter said it would do
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| 16:27 | haven't actually checked
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| 16:28 | i still think it makes sense to have the tool create that stuff for other distros (presuming it's in the same location?)
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| 16:28 | if it's not present
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| 16:28 | also makes backports easier to support.
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| 16:29 | although arguably we can't do that from postinst, then.
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| 16:29 | <alkisg> ltsp-config nbd :)
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| 16:31 | I'm waiting for stgraber to finish packaging the new stuff so that I can properly test them, then I'll do that ltsp-config tool
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| 16:31 | <vagrantc> yeah, that sounds good.
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| 16:32 | * vagrantc rides to meet the day | |
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| 17:52 | <bieb> I am rebuilding my 10.04 server moving to 12.04 next week. what are some of the config files I should save from 10.04 for the transition? I am keeping the network config, what else??
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| 17:53 | <vagrantc> just save them all using etckeeper
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| 17:53 | <bieb> vagrantc: what is etckeeper?
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| 17:53 | !etckeeper
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| 17:53 | <ltsp`> bieb: Error: "etckeeper" is not a valid command.
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| 17:53 | <vagrantc> bieb: a tool to back up your /etc dir in revision control.
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| 17:54 | easier to back them all up that be selective and miss something important.
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| 17:54 | and you can diff between revisions
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| 17:54 | <bieb> vagrantc: gotcha ... where do I find etckeeper?
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| 17:56 | <vagrantc> apt-get install etckeeper
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| 17:56 | <bieb> vagrantc: apt-get install etckeeper?
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| 17:56 | LOL
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| 17:57 | I just found it on linux app finder.. was looking at the info
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| 19:50 | <vlt> vagrantc: Thanks for pointing me to ltsp-chroot. What exactly does it do to prevent programs inside the chroot to mess up the host? Can I do this myself for an install script?
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| 20:50 | <Hyperbyte> vlt, ltsp-chroot is a script. If you want to see what it does technically, just open it in a text editor.
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| 20:50 | But for starters, it makes /opt/ltsp/<chroot>/ the root filesystem, so modifications to the upper filesystem are not possible with normal file operations
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| 20:52 | <vagrantc> also sets some environment variables, that disable certain things ...
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| 20:53 | like /sbin/stop-start-daemon is redirected, and /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d also prevents stuff from starting
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| 20:54 | <vlt> Hyperbyte: I know what chrooting is. I need to know more about the part that prevents apt routines to sart or stop processes on my host system …
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| 20:56 | <vagrantc> vlt: ^^
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| 20:56 | both the custom start-stop-daemon and policy-rc.d should be installed by LTSP
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| 20:57 | <vagrantc> you'll want to do something similar if you're using a non-ltsp environment
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| 20:57 | <vlt> vagrantc: That you. I’ll try to understand what the ltsp-chroot script does.
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| 20:59 | <vagrantc> vlt: why not just use ltsp-chroot in your scripts?
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| 20:59 | the older versions of ltsp-chroot were really quite simple, you might want to try and find one of those ... the newer versions do a lot of other things
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| 21:00 | <vlt> vagrantc: If it was easy enough I could do it without installing ltsp on the host system. I’m developing a script that actually installs an LTSP system.
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| 21:41 | <vlt> vagrantc: Solved. I just needed to create the executable file /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d containing “exit 101”. Thank you.
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| 23:25 | <vagrantc> vlt: you need it to only exit 101 when chrooted.
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