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02:35 | <vlt> Hyvää Huomenta and hello. Maybe there's an easier way (even on Ubuntu 6.06's LTSP) but I don't know it, so I tried the following: I installed a SIP softphone (twinkle) into the chroot and tried to access it via `ssh -X cient.ip twinkle`. But I can't get any ssh -X app working (not even xeyes). When I connect, $DISPLAY is empty. Any idea where to look first?
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02:46 | <Q-FUNK> no, terve
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02:46 | which version of LTSP and which distro?
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02:51 | <vlt> Q-FUNK: Ubuntu Dapper 6.06's LTSP(5) packages. Maybe o_gra is the right man here ...
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02:52 | <Q-FUNK> dapper is getting rather old
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02:52 | did you update the boot image after you installed?
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03:00 | <vlt> Q-FUNK: Yes, I know. I've heard that more than once in the last days and already have decided to upgrade soon. But sometimes you need something working right now. -- No I didn't update the chroot. I installed some apps like ssh server, cups and sane, and twinkle right now. But the repo in sources.list is still only "dapper" (not "dapper-updates" for example).
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03:01 | <Q-FUNK> just instaling isn't enough
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03:01 | sudo ltsp-update-image
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03:01 | right after
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04:05 | <vlt> Q-FUNK: I got no image here. It's good ol' NFS mount style.
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04:06 | Q-FUNK: I just installed aespipe (for something completely different ;) and it instantly worked.
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04:07 | <Q-FUNK> ok :)
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05:30 | <Q-FUNK> ogra: btw, please let me know when you're ready to flash your 61
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06:41 | <sonjag> Hello everyone! Can anyone tell me or direct me to instructions on how to restrict the use of the terminal from users other than administrators? Thanks!
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06:46 | <vlt> sonjag: The terminal itself has a passwd protected root account. The users log in on the server, so there you have to care for permissions ...
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06:50 | <sonjag> vlt, not so on my install. If a user clicks alt-F2, they get the run application menu, and then they can choose terminal from there. No password required.
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07:00 | <vlt> sonjag: If the user can press F2 he is already logged in.
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07:00 | sonjag: So, obviously no password needed then.
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07:00 | <vlt> Alt+F2, even
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07:13 | <sonjag> vlt, I'm not sure what you mean. Any user on my LTSP setup is currently able to use terminal without any root or other credentials. I want to restrict that to only allowing admin users to use terminal. I believe there is an executable that I can set permissions on... I'm looking for something like that.
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07:14 | <vlt> sonjag: Aaah, I completey misunderstood. terminal = `terminal`. Now I got it ...
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07:16 | <sonjag> vlt, ahhh, I see your confusion.... I'm trying to thwart my little hackers that found out about using the command line...
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07:23 | <cliebow_> heh
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07:30 | <sonjag> okay, I found the executable (gnome-terminal) and I can see the permissions. -rwxr-xr-x . The user and group root. If I change the group to admin, then change the "other" bits to off (-rwxr-x---) will that fix it so that only admin users can run terminal? Anything dangerous about doing this? Does this make sense?
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07:41 | <sep> sonjag, you should encourage command line useage. not try to hide it from them. using the command line is both educational and inspiering.
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07:42 | if your system is insecure, hiding one of the command line terminal emulator programs is not going to make it secure
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10:51 | <alumno10> hi all!
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10:51 | how can i change the default boot kernel on clients?
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10:52 | <sutula> alumno10: Depends on how they boot. PXE?
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10:52 | <alumno10> yes
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10:52 | <alumno10> i have a old client that only kernel 2.6.8 support it , and i must to boot from there
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10:53 | <ogra_cmpc> alumno10, install a different linux-image package in the chroot and run sudo ltsp-update-kernels
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10:53 | <alumno10> but now i have 2.6.14 kernel
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10:53 | <ogra_cmpc> thats unlikely to work though
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10:53 | udev will likely break witch such old kernels
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10:53 | <alumno10> after that.. can i select between all kernels?
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10:54 | <ogra_cmpc> no
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10:54 | <sutula> alumno10: your dhcp server decides which kernel is pointed to for each client, right?
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10:54 | <alumno10> yes
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10:54 | <ogra_cmpc> it will use the last installed one from the chroot
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10:55 | <alumno10> humm i see... and if this 2.6.8 kernel doesn't work as i expected, there's a way to configure which kernel to use in clients?
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10:55 | <ogra_cmpc> sutula, the problem is that with 2.6 kernels there is a lot userspace stuff that depends on a certain kernel version and features that provides
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10:55 | * sutula defers to ogra_cmpc | |
10:55 | <ogra_cmpc> there are various ones, yes
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10:56 | <alumno10> ok, thanks, then i'll install 2.6.8 kernel in chroot
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10:56 | <ogra_cmpc> but dont expect it to boot with a .8 version
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10:56 | <alumno10> ?
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10:56 | <sutula> alumno10: Sounds like you could have separate userspaces as well, but the current tools wouldn't support that automatically
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10:56 | <ogra_cmpc> the easiest way for testing is probably to just edit pxelinux.cgf/default
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10:57 | sutula, well, the prob will be to get a chroot created that is able use such old kernelspace stuff
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10:57 | <alumno10> this is the story: my ebox clients have sis7019 sound hardware, which doesn't work automatically with edubuntu 7.10 (ltsp5) just installed
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10:58 | <ogra_cmpc> ugh
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10:58 | you run ebox with ltsp5 ?
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10:58 | err
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10:58 | s/ltsp5/ltsp/
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10:58 | <alumno10> yes...why?
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10:58 | <ogra_cmpc> ebox makes a nice kiosk device to run a single app but itrs way to slow as a full client
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10:59 | <alumno10> my server is an athlon and it supports like 10 clients
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10:59 | <ogra_cmpc> on either ltsp version (imho)
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10:59 | <alumno10> i use icewm instead gnome
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10:59 | and it run so so
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10:59 | <ogra_cmpc> well, the desktop has not much to do with the client
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11:00 | apart from the amount of colors probably
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11:00 | <alumno10> humm, 16bit color, and 800x600 res no ssh encryption
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11:00 | <ogra_cmpc> ah, k
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11:00 | 800x600 is probably even ok with an ebox
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11:00 | (i never tried it with less than 1024x786,)
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11:01 | <alumno10> which client machine do u recommend me?
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11:01 | and server... to watch youtube fluidly in 30 clients
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11:01 | <ogra_cmpc> at the same time ?
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11:01 | <alumno10> yep
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11:02 | <ogra_cmpc> then your clients should probably have gigabit NICs
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11:02 | and you need a powerplant to run your network HW
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11:02 | <alumno10> my clients?
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11:02 | my server have a gigabit
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11:02 | i think doesnt matter clients have a 10/100
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11:03 | <ogra_cmpc> well
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11:03 | <alumno10> ok, i'll check kernel thing now
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11:03 | <ogra_cmpc> imagine 24frames of 800x600x24bit size being shoveled over the net ...
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11:03 | every second
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11:04 | <alumno10> but isnt fullscreen
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11:04 | <ogra_cmpc> you will ptrobably get a handfiull of clients displaying that in a fluid way
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11:04 | but 30 ...
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11:05 | <alumno10> humm , i called to dell and they recommend me a xeon
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11:05 | <ogra_cmpc> flash and ltsp are not going well together as long as firefox runs on the server ...
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11:05 | to much network traffic that way
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11:05 | <alumno10> humm.. do you think flash could run locally in this tinny machines?
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11:05 | <ogra_cmpc> there is no compression or anything for your video frames they go over the net in raw format
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11:06 | 24 of them per second per client
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11:06 | <alumno10> hummm
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11:06 | <ogra_cmpc> there is no localapp implementaition that works yet ... so currently you would have to implement a locally running firefox yourself
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11:07 | <alumno10> ok...
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11:07 | hey, i tried to install kernel, and i got this :/
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11:07 | run-parts: executing /etc/kernel/postinst.d/ltsp-update-kernels
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11:07 | Could not find where the current root file system is mounted!
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11:07 | Please make some arrangements for your system to boot the new
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11:07 | kernel (like running LILO, loadlin, SILO, QUIK, VMELILO, or
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11:07 | getting a boot floppy).
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11:07 | Please hit return to continue.
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11:07 | (im chrooted)
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11:07 | <ogra_cmpc> ugh
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11:07 | dont chroot
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11:08 | <alumno10> but, if i install kernel without chroot, then server will boot with old 2.6.8 kernel?
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11:08 | <ogra_cmpc> you need to install the kernel chrooted
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11:08 | but not run ltsp-update-kernels chrooted
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11:09 | <alumno10> i didn't do it, the system did by itself
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11:09 | :/tmp# dpkg -i kernel-image-2.6.8-20050531_BlueBox.1.0_i386.deb
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11:09 | <ogra_cmpc> using an ubuntu linux-image packaged kernel
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11:09 | <alumno10> Configurando kernel-image-2.6.8-20050531 (BlueBox.1.0) ...
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11:09 | run-parts: executing /etc/kernel/postinst.d/ltsp-update-kernels
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11:09 | Could not find where the current root file system is mounted!
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11:09 | <ogra_cmpc> that wont work
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11:09 | <alumno10> ..
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11:09 | humm
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11:09 | <ogra_cmpc> you need to package the kernel with that packaging system for the current release
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11:10 | <alumno10> could you please tell mehow?
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11:10 | <ogra_cmpc> thats definately a debian and not an ubuntu kernel
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11:10 | that cant work
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11:10 | <vagrantc> /etc/kernel/postinst.d/ltsp-update-kernels should be a symlink to /usr/lib/ltsp/update-kernels
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11:10 | <ogra_cmpc> ubuntu usews a totally differnt packaging setup for its kernels
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11:11 | <vagrantc> ubuntu doesn't use /etc/kernel/postinst.d ?
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11:11 | <ogra_cmpc> it does
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11:11 | <alumno10> how can i get installed kernel 2.6.8 on clients then?
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11:12 | <vagrantc> alumno10: it is probably a very complicated task involving a lot of hacking.
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11:12 | <ogra_cmpc> build one yourself from vanilla source might work
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11:13 | <alumno10> or, what about if i insmod sis7019 chrooted?
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11:13 | <ogra_cmpc> that would try to insmod it to the server
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11:13 | <vagrantc> for every ebox attempted to be used with LTSP, $deity kills a kitten
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11:14 | <ogra_cmpc> ++
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11:14 | <ogra_cmpc> vagrantc, well ...
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11:14 | <alumno10> where goes the modules in client filesistem?
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11:14 | <ogra_cmpc> vagrantc, not actually true ...
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11:14 | <alumno10> lol!
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11:14 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: really? :)
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11:14 | <ogra_cmpc> my firewall/router is my ebox sample :) .... booting a special squashfs
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11:14 | * vagrantc was pretty sure vagrantc heard a kitten screaming in agony when alumno10 booted the ebox | |
11:15 | <alumno10> when i was a child i burnt a kitten so it doesnt matter
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11:15 | lol
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11:16 | it was an accident...a sad accident
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11:16 | modprobe sis7019
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11:16 | FATAL: Module sis7019 not found.
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11:16 | * ogra_cmpc is trying to patition an nbd device .... | |
11:16 | <alumno10> where i put the sound module?
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11:17 | now im using 2.6.14-386 kernel
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11:18 | <vagrantc> *finally* ltsp in sid is in a good state again.
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11:18 | <alumno10> and why when i do uname -a in a chrooted terminal, i get server kernel, but when i do the same in tty1 console i get the real client kernel?
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11:18 | <ogra_cmpc> vagrantc, seen the recent post to ltsp-discuss ? where the guy needed to install xdialog ?
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11:18 | <vagrantc> alumno10: because chroot'ing doesn't change what kernel you're running.
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11:19 | <ogra_cmpc> i wonder what went wrong there
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11:19 | * vagrantc admits to not reading ltsp-discuss | |
11:19 | <ogra_cmpc> he's on debian and had a message that he should install xdialog on first terminal boot
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11:20 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: it's probably because the ltspfs in lenny depends on a version of ldm that's not yet in lenny, so instead of installing ldm it installed sdm-terminal.
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11:20 | <ogra_cmpc> yeah, thats what i suspected
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11:20 | <alumno10> where can i put sound modules, so the system find it and finally can do insmod module?
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11:21 | <vagrantc> i've actually dropped sdm-terminal with the last ltsp upload to debian
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11:21 | <ogra_cmpc> damned ....
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11:21 | the partitioning works fine ... but i got no devices for the partitions afterwards
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11:21 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: what you messing around with partitioned nbd devices for?
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11:22 | <ogra_cmpc> creating them with mknod doesnt help either
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11:22 | vagrantc, i try to write a script to create a proper grub booting image that you just can dd to an usb key
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11:22 | grub, fdisk and mkfs all edxpect a blockdevice, they dont work on images
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11:23 | so i'm nbd loop mounting the image file
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11:23 | then i fdisk it which works fine
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11:23 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: the debian-live code does that using loop devices somehow
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11:23 | <ogra_cmpc> using grub and ext3 ?
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11:23 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: i believe so
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11:23 | <ogra_cmpc> inside the image
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11:24 | * ogra_cmpc cant imagine debian live using either of these | |
11:24 | * vagrantc is floored at how many things debian-live supports | |
11:24 | <vagrantc> they're insane.
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11:25 | <ogra_cmpc> i'd not expect grub
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11:25 | but i'll take a look, thanks for the hint
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11:29 | <vagrantc> they definitely support grub
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11:32 | <ogra_cmpc> hmm, is debian-live a package ?
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11:33 | <vagrantc> not by that name ...
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11:34 | there's several related packages ...
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11:34 | live-helper probably has what you're looking for
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11:37 | * vagrantc is confused by ltsp related popcon ratings ... in the last week, some system has used a binary from the package at least once: ldm 8, ltsp-server 238, ltsp-client 1, ltspfsd 5, ltspfs 75 | |
11:38 | <vagrantc> i would expect similar results for ltsp-client, ldm and ltspfsd ...
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11:38 | i guess they're all pretty low numbers ...
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11:39 | <vagrantc> but what are the 4-7 systems using ltspfsd and ldm but not using ltsp-client ?
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11:40 | <alumno10> damn, i installed 2.6.8 kernel
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11:40 | clients doesnt boot now :S
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11:40 | * vagrantc notes that alumno10 had been warned | |
11:40 | <alumno10> i try to remove or purge that kernel (always chrooted)
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11:40 | but i get an error
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11:41 | Desinstalando kernel-image-2.6.8-20050531 ...
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11:41 | run-parts: executing /etc/kernel/postrm.d/ltsp-update-kernels
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11:41 | Cannot open ``/boot/nbi.img-2.6.22-14-generic'':File exists
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11:41 | run-parts: /etc/kernel/postrm.d/ltsp-update-kernels exited with return code 1
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11:41 | Failed to process /etc/kernel/postrm.d at /var/lib/dpkg/info/kernel-image-2.6.8-20050531.postrm line 260.
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11:41 | dpkg: error al procesar kernel-image-2.6.8-20050531 (--remove):
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11:41 | el subproceso post-removal script devolvió el código de salida de error 2
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11:41 | Se encontraron errores al procesar:
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11:41 | <vagrantc> !pastebot
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11:41 | <ltspbot> vagrantc: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
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11:41 | <alumno10> kernel-image-2.6.8-20050531
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11:41 | E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
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11:41 | <vagrantc> alumno10: please use the pastebot in the future
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11:42 | <alumno10> ok, sorry
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11:42 | <vagrantc> alumno10: you can just delete /boot/nbi.img*
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11:42 | alumno10: and then remove your kernels ... they should get regenerated.
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11:44 | *sigh*
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11:44 | <alumno10> where are the kernels in chrooted?
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11:44 | <vagrantc> alumno10: the kernels in the chroot should be in /boot
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11:45 | alumno10: the nbi.img* are generated by ltsp hooks to the kernel postinstall/postremove stuff
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11:46 | <alumno10> ok
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11:47 | <vagrantc> so ... now i just need to find myself a nice m68k system to upload the next ltsp with ... so then i don't have to wait for the ridiculously slow m68k buildd, which hasn't built ltsp packages in 10 months and is preventing me from uploading ldm ...
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11:47 | er, not 10 months ... not since october ... more like 6 months :)
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11:48 | <cliebow_> vagrantc:you are in Macintosh hell?
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11:48 | * vagrantc notes that m68k isn't in the current stable release or even the testing version | |
11:48 | <vagrantc> cliebow_: looking to get into some macintosh hell, yes.
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11:49 | <cliebow_> why not step up to nubus 8~)
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11:49 | <vagrantc> cliebow_: any idea what the faster m68k mac's are ?
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11:49 | <cliebow_> not off top of the head
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11:49 | <vagrantc> cliebow_: i tend to see quadra's and performa's coming through freegeek fairly often
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11:49 | <cliebow_> i came in at 6100/5260
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11:49 | <vagrantc> those were powerpc?
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11:49 | <cliebow_> yeah..i think
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11:49 | <ogra_cmpc> vagrantc, cluster some quadras :)
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11:50 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: i just need to get one for starters ...
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11:50 | then we'll look at clustering
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11:50 | <ogra_cmpc> you just said you see them often
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11:50 | <vagrantc> yes, but i just realized how this would be useful to me, so i haven't grabbed any yet
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11:50 | <cliebow_> vagrantc:we have pretty much trashed anything we ever had from that vintage..
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11:51 | <ogra_cmpc> cliebow_, everyone has ... apart from debian :P
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11:51 | <cliebow_> and i always joked about a beowulf cluster..
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11:51 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: even debian has ... it's not part of etch officially, it's not supported by the security team, and it's not in lenny
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11:51 | ogra_cmpc: it's jjust hanging in there enough to get in my way
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11:52 | <alumno10> vagrantc, it doesn't appear again vmlinuz or nbi.img , and clients still doesnt boot :S, it just reboot when they load initrd.img
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11:52 | <vagrantc> alumno10: make sure the symlinks in /opt/ltsp/i386/boot/vmlinuz initrd.img point to the appropriate kernel, and make sure to run ltsp-update-kernels, and then try booting
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11:53 | i just need an m68k debian sid machine long enough to get one upload to debian in :)
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11:54 | and then i can forget it ever existed
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11:54 | * vagrantc finds the situation kind of ridiculous | |
11:55 | <vagrantc> then i can start grumbling about mips(el)
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11:56 | seems like mips/mipsel has hovered between 150 and 450 in the buildd queues ... the frustrating part is it keeps going back up
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11:58 | * ogra_cmpc has an ingigo2 here | |
11:58 | <ogra_cmpc> *indigo
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11:58 | but no linux on it
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11:59 | <vagrantc> i've got an SGI o2, but it's got an r10000 proc which isn't supported by debian, an SGI octane2 which doesn't seem to respond to video or serial console, one indigo similarly unresponsive, and two indigo's i haven't yet tried, an a cobalt qube without a power supply
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12:00 | <cliebow_> sounds like a school..
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12:00 | <ogra_cmpc> i guess the cobalt is your best bet
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12:00 | <vagrantc> i got part way through a debian install on the O2, but then some bug with the SCSI and/or network drivers kicks in
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12:01 | <ogra_cmpc> it actually has some decent performance and runs linux easily
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12:01 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: well, the power supply is a strange wall-wort
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12:01 | <alumno10> vagrantc: everything seems fine by now, wow... this things MUST be working at 15.00 localtime an this time is now , thanks!
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12:01 | <ogra_cmpc> vagrantc, i bet you can get data and wiring diagrams for it
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12:02 | <cliebow_> alumno10, so you got it working then....
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12:02 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: yeah, that was what one person said... we could build a custom power supply ... but kind of a lot of work without knowing that it even works
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12:02 | <cliebow_> vagrantc: i can send you a couple netvistas to add to your collection..
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12:02 | <vagrantc> cliebow_: heh. i've seen a few of those now and again
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12:02 | <alumno10> sh*t! i got a lot of errors
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12:03 | <cliebow_> someone has the ppc version more or less working
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12:03 | <vagrantc> cliebow_: i'm mostly interested in the ones with bigger numbers: http://people.debian.org/~igloo/status.php?packages=ldm
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12:04 | <cliebow_> isee!
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12:04 | <alumno10> after load nbi. img i got: "mount: mounting /dev/nbd0 on /rofs failed: no such device... and so, all filesystems
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12:04 | <vagrantc> i haven't tried powerpc in a while ... in fact, i don't even remember if i ever got it working.
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12:04 | <alumno10> im pretty scared
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12:04 | +o(
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12:05 | <vagrantc> seems like some of the openfirmware implementations required manually specifying the network boot options ... it wouldn't take the filename from dhcp...
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12:06 | we've got a lot of those gumdrop looking powerpc's ...
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12:06 | <cliebow_> a lot neede like a bootp..
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12:06 | static
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12:07 | * vagrantc starts eyeballing hppa | |
12:08 | <alumno10> oh sh*t is working :S
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12:08 | i can believe it! thanks all!!
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12:09 | <vagrantc> any idea what a HP PA-RISC is like?
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12:09 | <cliebow_> not at all..
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12:10 | <alumno10> thats weird , when i put kernel....-generic instead ...-386 the system doesn't mount any filesystem
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12:10 | <cliebow_> my one advatnure was a solaris box..
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13:13 | <milesd> vagrantc, so why all this interest in multiple architectures?
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13:16 | <vagrantc> milesd: because debian supports them, and some of the slower ones are interfering with migration from debian unstable to debian testing
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13:16 | <milesd> aah, I see
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13:16 | vagrantc, is it not building on "some of the slower ones?"
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13:17 | <johnny> when will debian drop them?
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13:17 | <vagrantc> milesd: it has been since october that ldm was built on m68k
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13:17 | <milesd> vagrantc, right, but are the builds failing, or are they just not being done?
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13:17 | <vagrantc> milesd: they're just slow
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13:17 | <milesd> ...so it's been *building* since OCT?
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13:18 | <joebaker> Slow to build or slow to execute?
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13:18 | <vagrantc> it hasn't started a new build since october
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13:18 | <milesd> vagrantc, right, but is that because there are no new builds scheduled, or because it's still clogged up with other from the October-era?
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13:19 | <vagrantc> milesd: it's 400+ or so in the queue
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13:19 | <milesd> wow
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13:19 | sounds like Debian needs some more machines in the build-farm
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13:19 | <joebaker> Wow, so if I could get my old amiga on the network (m68k...)
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13:19 | <vagrantc> it's a social problem as much as a technical one
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13:19 | <milesd> ...or that they need to drop m68k
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13:19 | <vagrantc> i'm just looking at ways to work around the problem for ltsp
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13:19 | <milesd> is anybody using it anymore?
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13:20 | <vagrantc> m68k is dropped from everything but debian unstable officially
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13:20 | * ogra_cmpc guesses that 90% of the software built on m68k wont even run on that low ressources | |
13:20 | <milesd> ogra_cmpc, that'd be my guess, too
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13:21 | <ogra_cmpc> but hey, i'm spoiled ... ubuntu cares only for three arches atm
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13:23 | (and one of them is server only :) )
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13:23 | <Blinny> Will Hardy have a method for flash sound on terminals booting from a 64-bit server?
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13:24 | <milesd> ogra_cmpc, out of curiosity, which architectures are those?
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13:24 | <ogra_cmpc> Blinny, if someone manages to build a libflashsupport64
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13:24 | milesd, i386, amd64 and sparc
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13:24 | <milesd> ...sparc, eh?
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13:25 | <ogra_cmpc> yes, we're sun partner
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13:25 | <Blinny> I do see an amd64 arch on http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/libs/libflashsupport
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13:26 | <ogra_cmpc> ubuntu is fully certified on niagara
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13:26 | Blinny, you need one that hooks into lib32
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13:27 | flash will only run in a 32bit env ... linbflashsupport for 64bit would work with a 64bit flash plugin if there were one
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13:28 | <Blinny> And right now (Gutsy) flash is run through a wrapper?
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13:29 | <ogra_cmpc> yes, it will be the same in hardy
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13:29 | nspluginwrapper runs 32bit plugins in a 64bit env
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13:29 | <Blinny> Gotchya.
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13:30 | That's the way I did it in FC6, but had to set it up by hand.
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13:30 | <ogra_cmpc> the thing is that the 32bit pklugins need their libs to be sitting in /usr/lib32
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13:31 | <Blinny> I've read about this lib32 lib64 naming convention differences. Seems like instead of keeping /lib it'd be wise to have both /lib64 and /lib32 and then link /lib to whichever arch your kernel is.
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13:31 | <ogra_cmpc> so libflashsupport needs special packaging here which nobody did yet
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13:31 | <Blinny> *Nod*
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13:31 | <ogra_cmpc> i think ther are launchpad bugs about it open
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13:31 | <Blinny> And it wouldn't hurt to have Adobe do some of the word too.
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13:31 | :s;ord;ork
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13:32 | <ogra_cmpc> well, providing a 64bit build wouldnt hutr
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13:32 | then all that silly workarounds wouldnt be needed
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13:32 | <Blinny> OK. Thanks.
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13:46 | <warren> ogra_cmpc, I wouldn't hold my breath about a 64bit build
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13:46 | <ogra_cmpc> i know
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13:47 | but if i look at all the effort going into sall these workarounds the wasted manpower makes me cry
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13:48 | <vagrantc> any hope from gnash or the other implementation?
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13:48 | other free implementation(s)
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13:49 | <ogra_cmpc> i bet if you would pay 10ct for every mnhour that went into making flash on 64bit work you could pay adobe a fulltime dev who could take care of the 64bit port
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13:49 | *manhour
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13:49 | vagrantc, i have one user who claims to be happy with gnash on his gutsy ltsp
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13:50 | (amd64)
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13:50 | but i'm not sure he uses whats in the archive since he's the only one i heaqrd anything positive from
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13:51 | <milesd> vagrantc, I've seen gnash work, but it chews up a *lot* of CPU time and on my P4-2.8Ghz laptop it can't play a movie without stopping every few seconds to let the CPU catch up
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13:51 | vagrantc, But it's never crashed on me, and so far I've not seen a flash file it couldn't play
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13:52 | vagrantc, so I'm hopeful, but it's not there yet
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13:53 | <ogra_cmpc> vagrantc, debian live sadly doesnt have anything that would help me to create partitions inside an image, but the grub code looks worth to steal :)
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13:54 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: well, that's something at least
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13:55 | <warren> unfortunately gnash even with unlimited manpower will never achieve 100% capability due to software patents =(
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13:55 | <ogra_cmpc> pfft patents ...
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13:59 | <milesd> warren, you have any specific patents in mind?
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14:00 | <ogra_cmpc> milesd, there are surely some involved
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14:00 | <milesd> warren, or did you just fall victim to a FUD campaign?
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14:01 | <milesd> ogra_cmpc, of course there are. Microsoft patented the "and not" logical operator and Amazon patented clicking a mouse
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14:01 | <ogra_cmpc> but patents are a theoretical thread ... not dangerous unless someone enforces them ...
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14:01 | <milesd> ogra_cmpc, you're probably violating a patent every time you breathe
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14:01 | ogra_cmpc, warren: the question is, are there any *enforcible* patents to worry about?
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14:01 | <ogra_cmpc> keeping away from coding something because it could be patented is like not going out because a car could run you down
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14:02 | <milesd> I even saw one patent for tying your shoe laces tied
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14:02 | * vagrantc suspects you're more likely to get run down by a car | |
14:02 | <ogra_cmpc> yeah
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14:02 | <milesd> "frictive fluid application for footware fastening devices" or something like that
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14:03 | It had a diagram of a shoe-lace tied in a nice-looking bow with a bottle of glue aimed at it... very professionally done :)
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14:04 | I'm not saying it can't be a problem
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14:05 | and I'm not saying we don't have a responsibility for due diligence
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14:05 | but SW patents aren't nearly so hairy as everybody seems to dread
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14:11 | <alumno10> when client boots, it says " module-detect.c: failed to detect any sound hardware module.c:failed to load module-detect.c"
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14:11 | but when i do lspci in tty1 terminal i got "... audio controler: sis 7019....."
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14:12 | what does it mean?
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14:13 | vagrantc, are you there?
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14:16 | <cdealer> hi ... just a question ... why even after all clients had logout I still have some (about 3 to 6) users showing in top ?
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14:17 | and their process arent idle...
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14:17 | <alumno10> hummm, sometimes it happened to me
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14:18 | sometimes bonobo still running
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14:18 | with an user which isnt logon
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14:18 | <cdealer> this happens everyday .. everybody goes home and there are ... 6 users connect, and their processes like nautilus are active and consuming about 10% of cpu
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14:18 | <alumno10> (had logged off minutes before)
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14:18 | humm... thats weird
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14:19 | <cdealer> yep
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14:19 | <alumno10> check logs
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14:19 | when they logged in
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14:19 | and when and from where
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14:20 | <cdealer> Hmmmm I will take a look ... do you think that an incorrect shutdown may let they lock for sometime in the box ?
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14:21 | <Blinny> Woah. My server's monitor just blanked after sitting idle at the gnome login window... and it killed my thin client session sitting right beside.
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14:21 | <alumno10> could be but its difficult it happen everyday
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14:23 | <cdealer> Hmm
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14:24 | dbus-daemon and gnome-vfs-daemon are two process that normally persists to stay up
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14:25 | <cdealer> I have a user that had gone about 1 hour ago and there are 5 dbus and 5 gnome-vfs process idle
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14:25 | I will start killing these users
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14:25 | <Blinny> NO!
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14:25 | Kill their processes
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14:26 | You'll end up in serious trouble if you start killing your users.
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14:26 | <cdealer> Blinny, welll ... to late for some users O_o
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14:26 | Blinny, what could happen ?
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14:26 | just to get prepared...
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14:26 | <ogra_cmpc> you could go to jail or worse i guess
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14:27 | ddepending where you live
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14:27 | <cdealer> hahaha good one ogra ... ;P
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14:27 | <Blinny> Seriously.
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14:27 | <vagrantc> alumno10: lspci just tells you what cards are in the system, which doesn't mean that your kernel can support that hardware
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14:28 | <alumno10> humm ok, thanks, that's exactly what i though
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14:28 | lol!
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14:28 | <cdealer> Blinny, now talking seriously... you was joking or are you saying killing direct the users with killall -u user may cause problem?
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14:28 | <ogra_cmpc> you need the full oss stack for that driver ... and likely an alsa-oss plugin installed
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14:28 | <alumno10> if you kill users processes still will run
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14:29 | <Blinny> cdealer: Just joking :)
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14:29 | <ogra_cmpc> alumno10 has a point
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14:29 | <cdealer> ah ok
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14:29 | ogra, but a killall -u user dont close all user process stances?
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14:29 | <ogra_cmpc> use pkill rather
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14:30 | that will kill all processes, yes
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14:31 | <cdealer> I thought that was the same then killing processes one by one ...
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14:31 | but pkill may be usefull as well
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14:33 | ogra, now going in the other way ... our server with 30 users was using only 5gb of memory ... very nice I guess ... what I notice is that sometimes nautilus get stuck and I have to kill then run again to the desktop come to normal with wallpaper and things like that
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14:35 | <ogra_cmpc> do you use any kind of network mounted homedirs ?
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14:35 | <cdealer> ogra_cmpc, no I dont... all in the ltsp box
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14:36 | ogra, Im very excited with the Idea of putting our implementation as a case of success on the ubuntu site... ltsp help us to save a lot of money with windows licenses and robust boxes to handle local resources...
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14:36 | * ogra_cmpc hasnt heard something like that yet | |
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14:37 | <cdealer> ogra_cmpc, here happens about 2 to 3 times a day, havent inspected the logs yet
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14:39 | <alumno10> where i have to put modules if i want to modprobe it?
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14:40 | i got Module sis7019.ko not found.
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14:41 | <cdealer> I was going home ... but I will whait for this answer ;)
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14:54 | <dmorar> Hi, im trying to get ltsp 5 to work on slackware using debian tarballs
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14:54 | so far i get a ldm login screen, and i can go into ssh if i use one of the tty, but i cant go into the graphics mode, i suspect i have a problem with Xsession, how do i debug this?
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14:55 | i dont think i have a problem with my ssh_config
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14:55 | would you help me please?
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14:56 | <vagrantc> dmorar: where are you getting the tarballs from?
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14:56 | and why use the tarballs at all?
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14:57 | <dmorar> vagrantc, i dont think, it is a problem with the tarballs, i got them from ltsp site, it was working but i suffered a data loss, and had to restart all my system, fortunatelly i had a backup, but lost all the documentation i had done when i set ltsp to work, i remember i had to mess with xsession issues...
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14:57 | <vagrantc> dmorar: well, the only tarball i know is *really old*
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14:57 | dmorar: it was created before debian etch was released, and probably has lots of security bugs
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14:58 | <dmorar> vagrantc, im using the tarballs, since i dont know how to get it to work on slackware
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14:58 | <vagrantc> ah.
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14:58 | s,probably,definitely,
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14:59 | <dmorar> but im here to hear your advice, if you think there is a better solution...
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14:59 | i have a i386 directory, all of slackware 12 bits...
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15:00 | <vagrantc> well, possibly updating your chroot, or i could release a new tarball...
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15:00 | but before i make a new tarball, i'll want to get the latest ltsp working on etch
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15:01 | <dmorar> vagrantc, if you tell me which files i have to tweek in order to get ltsp 5 slackware only bits, i would do it gladly
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15:02 | <vagrantc> dmorar: there's no tweaking to be done, that's a whole project unto itself
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15:02 | !integration
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15:02 | <ltspbot> vagrantc: "integration" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/IntegratingLtsp
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15:02 | <vagrantc> dmorar: have a look at that document to get started
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15:04 | <dmorar> vagrantc, ok, i have already read this, im stuck on step 1 tough, i dont understand some things on step 2
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15:06 | <alumno10> what does ltsp-update-image
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15:08 | <warren> milesd, it isn't FUD. Simply look at what it does. Sorenson, MP3, H.264 and many other codecs are only a few examples.
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15:09 | <milesd> warren, can you be more specific? There are free, OSS mp3 encoders and decoders and I don't know of anybody who has faced legal action for them
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15:09 | <vagrantc> dmorar: if you don't understand step 1, you have to approach this from a perspective that you have a *lot* of stuff ahead of you to learn :)
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15:09 | <dmorar> vagrantc, i already done step 1
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15:09 | <vagrantc> dmorar: then how are you stuck on it?
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15:09 | <warren> milesd, a codec would need to be non-GPL in order to be legal outside of America
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15:09 | milesd, (due to patent & GPL incompatibility)
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15:09 | <dmorar> vagrantc, after step 1, but before step 2 :P
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15:10 | * vagrantc doesn't see anything between the two | |
15:10 | <vagrantc> dmorar: if you could be more specific, i *might* be able to help you
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15:10 | <warren> milesd, in any case you still don't have a freely available and fully capable flash alternative
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15:10 | <dmorar> vagrantc, lol ... i dont know how to install the LTSP supplied scripts/executables, i dont even have a copy of them
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15:10 | :)
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15:10 | <milesd> warren, not yet, that's true... But flash is both younger and more complicated
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15:11 | warren, and how, exactly are patents incompatible with GPL?
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15:11 | <vagrantc> dmorar: so you actually built a slackware chroot and configured it to boot to the network?
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15:11 | dmorar: the rest is just details :P
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15:11 | dmorar: if you got that far, why are you messing with debian tarballs?
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15:12 | <warren> milesd, read the GPL and consult your own lawyer
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15:12 | <milesd> warren, I'll admit I'm not up on GPLV3
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15:12 | warren, but GPLv2 has nothing to say about patents
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15:12 | <warren> milesd, it might be technically feasible with fluendo and gstreamer I admit
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15:12 | <dmorar> vagrant, i can boot with a kernel, and have a chroot enviroment... (i dont know if it will boot the nfs share),
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15:13 | <warren> milesd, however you're paying ~40 euros and you still don't have full capability
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15:13 | <dmorar> it boots the debian share
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15:13 | <warren> milesd, difficult to tell users that's their only option
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15:13 | vagrantc, regarding update-kernels, I'm afraid we can't use it directly as is
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15:13 | <vagrantc> dmorar: so it's a slackware server with a debian ltsp environment?
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15:13 | warren: figured that was a possibility
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15:14 | * vagrantc never expected anything to work for other distros without *some* changes | |
15:14 | <warren> vagrantc, I really like eharrison's thing that takes whatever latest kernel installed in the chroot and copies it outside and symlinks it. That way the PXE config is untouched by the update tool and custom options persist, including the possibility of a PXE menu.
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15:14 | <dmorar> vagrantc, yes, its a slackware server, but if you tell me i can make it to boot slack, then i will do it gladly :) , wait ill see if i can boot my slackware chroot enviroment, havent done so, cause i though it required some scripts in order to do the nfs mount
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15:14 | <milesd> warren, well, lame is licensed under lgpl-V2. So far as I know, nobody has faced legal action about it so far and it's available all over the world
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15:15 | warren, am I wrong about the legal action?
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15:15 | warren, or about its availability?
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15:15 | <vagrantc> warren: well, if you want persistance, have dhcp point to a custom pxe menu
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15:15 | <warren> milesd, not being sued != legally safe. No major distributor of linux can distribute it without fear of lawsuit, and even their customers could be sued.
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15:16 | <milesd> warren, ah, ok. Now I see where you're coming from
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15:16 | <vagrantc> warren: i've long planned on making ltsp-update-kernels/update-kernels more flexible ... just haven't gotten around to it.
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15:18 | <warren> vagrantc, for pragmatic reasons and the fact that none of us know really what is best yet, I'm going to write my own alternative, then after our next major releases we can assess what works best and work toward a common solution.
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15:20 | <vagrantc> warren: sounds reasonable
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15:21 | <dmorar> vagrantc, ok i cant boot into my slackware chroot, i dont know how to set up fstab... and it complains about it
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15:21 | <warren> vagrantc, btw, you still go by "Vagrant Cascadian" right? I want to get your name right when I explain who is involvd.
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15:21 | <vagrantc> dmorar: sorry, i don't have the time to help further
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15:21 | warren: sure :)
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15:21 | <dmorar> vagrantc, ok, thanks
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15:22 | * ogra_cmpc curses about nbd | |
15:22 | <ogra_cmpc> apparently there was a version once that supported partitioning ...
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15:22 | hrm
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16:07 | <cesar_> hello people
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16:08 | I have a question
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16:08 | about local drivers for client ltsp
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16:08 | well
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16:09 | I am reading the next link
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16:09 | http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42-LocalDev#Troubleshooting
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16:10 | my server ltsp is "LTSP 4.2 Update 3"
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16:13 | in point Step 8
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16:13 | I found a problem
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16:14 | <warren> vagrantc, ogra_cmpc : is there any reason why the System.map-foo must be copied into the tftpdir?
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16:15 | <vagrantc> warren: is there any reason not to?
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16:15 | <cesar_> in a client ltsp
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16:15 | I run this
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16:15 | ps -ef | grep lbussd
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16:15 | but
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16:15 | it isn't running
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16:15 | and then
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16:15 | <warren> vagrantc, unneeded redundancy
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16:15 | <vagrantc> warren: originally, there was a list of files to copy, but it *greatly* simplified to the code just copy the whole boot dir
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16:16 | <cesar_> in the TS I run
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16:16 | /usr/sbin/lbussd
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16:16 | how root
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16:16 | but
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16:16 | <vagrantc> warren: and the additional cruft that gets copied is so minimal compared to the additional code ...
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16:16 | <cesar_> I get a error
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16:16 | I get an error
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16:17 | <warren> vagrantc, System.map is > 800K
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16:17 | vagrantc, I guess we have differing opinions on what minimal means
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16:18 | vagrantc, and that's OK.
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16:18 | <cesar_> Use of uninitialized value in substitution (s///) at /usr/sbin/lbussd line 46.
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16:18 | Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at /usr/sbin/lbussd line 62.
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16:18 | Couldn't establish a connection to :9202: IO::Socket::INET: Bad hostname ':9202'
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16:19 | this happend when I try run "/usr/sbin/lbussd"
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16:19 | what happend?
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16:19 | <johnny> cesar_, i personally have never ran ltsp 4.x
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16:19 | <cesar_> ok
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16:19 | <johnny> and many others haven't either
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16:19 | <vagrantc> warren: in the grand scheme of how big an LTSP chroot is ...
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16:19 | <johnny> so you might be waiting awhile
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16:20 | <cesar_> I can see "Bad Hostname"
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16:20 | but
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16:20 | hostname is the "hostname" for the ST?
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16:20 | or client terminal server?
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16:24 | <warren> vagrantc, my LTSP chroot is currently 412MB, how large is Debian's?
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16:24 | vagrantc, I haven't optimized it yet
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16:25 | <cesar_> mmm..
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16:25 | <johnny> the img ? or /opt/ltsp/whatever ?
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16:26 | <warren> the chroot itself
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16:28 | <cesar_> may be "lsbussd" need a param
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16:28 | may be "lsbussd" need get a param
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16:29 | <johnny> du -csh says 438
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16:29 | but this is for a gutsy chroot
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16:30 | at least you know you're smaller than that :)
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16:31 | <warren> well, I haven't confirmed that it contains everything we need yet
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16:31 | I might have stripped out too much
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16:32 | <vagrantc> warren: there were some changes to dependency resolution which caused it to get up to around 500MB
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16:35 | <warren> btw
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16:35 | where is $LTSP_NFSROOT defined?
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16:36 | or maybe upstream doesn't use that
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16:36 | vagrantc, where do you get the values to pass to your initramfs tool so it knows where to find the NFS or NBD server?
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16:42 | <dmorar> Hi, again, ok, i give up trying to set slackware, i know i have a dumb problem, can you please help me to fix this?
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16:46 | <johnny> slackware doesn't have the best ltsp support afaik
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16:46 | it's still ltsp4
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16:46 | i imagine?
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16:47 | you're better off going with something with ltsp5
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16:47 | <dmorar> johnny, it was working, im using debian tarballs, i only need to fix ldm, and thats it
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16:48 | <warren> vagrantc, like I did for the initscript, I'll try to split out functions that could be common in a separate library
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16:49 | <cesar_> ufff.
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16:49 | in the list ltsp spanish
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16:49 | I found the same question
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16:49 | <warren> vagrantc, ogra_cmpc: hmm, does your LTSP not hardcode any server address in the initrd and instead it gets it from tftp?
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16:49 | vagrantc, ogra_cmpc: or dhcp?
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16:50 | i'm not sure how it works
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16:50 | <cesar_> what does "lbussd" do?
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16:50 | but anybody response
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16:51 | and.... I don't find a "man page" for this script
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16:51 | :-(
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16:55 | <dmorar> ok, i solved it, it was a problem with ssh
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16:57 | :)
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17:03 | <vagrantc> warren: yes, usually the server is grabbed from dhcp
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17:05 | <warren> vagrantc, where is the initramfs code and dhcp syntax for that?
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17:07 | <vagrantc> warren: ltsp-trunk/client/initramfs/* (except init-bottom, which should probably just be removed)
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17:07 | warren: scripts is what gets run at boot time, hooks is used during image generation ...
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17:07 | warren: though it leverages heavily on initramfs-tools ... we just plug into initramfs-tools mostly
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17:11 | <warren> dhcpd.conf syntax?
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17:21 | <vagrantc> warren: typically pulled from next-server or can be included as part of nfsroot
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17:21 | i guess next-server is technically a hack, but if you're actually hosting your boot images on a different server than the root filesystem ... you've got a mess anyways.
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17:41 | <jammcq> !seen sbalneav
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17:41 | <ltspbot> jammcq: sbalneav was last seen in #ltsp 2 weeks, 2 days, 8 hours, 42 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <sbalneav> What are we looking at?
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17:41 | <jammcq> hmm
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18:28 | <warren> What is scottie up to these days?
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18:31 | <jammcq> warren: I wish I knew
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18:31 | i've tried contacting him several times
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19:10 | <lns> warren, jammcq, sbalneav (sp)? is he not around anymore?
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19:10 | <johnny> he's busy
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19:11 | very busy
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19:11 | <lns> ahh
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20:54 | <rcy`> im having problems on *some* clients timing out on tftp when my dhcp server is a different machine
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20:54 | some work fine, however
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21:07 | <steph_> With LTSP, does it automaticaly install pulse audio with esound module?
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22:06 | <johnny> steph_, that depends on the distro prolly
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23:10 | <steph_> johnny: are you still there?
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