IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 15 July 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 09:16 | <DJUnreal> so going on from last night's problem... we established i need a different kernel for some of my thinclients to work, but i'm trying to find a way of doing it that won't be horrendously painful - it seems that an older 'standard' kernel will work nicely, so I figured there must be a way to ltsp-build-client with the old one...
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| 09:17 | tried the --dist option last night, and it didn't wanna work (dunno if I was putting the distro name in wrong for debian or something)
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| 09:17 | it looks like a 2.4 kernel will work for the specific clients i've got, so was hoping to use lenny and kernel 2.4 (i believe they were still packaged together)...
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| 09:20 | <alkisg> 2.4 is too old to be usable, I don't think lenny has that
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| 09:21 | Can you boot the client with a usb stick, to verify it's an issue with the kernel?
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| 09:21 | <DJUnreal> i'll give that a shot, hold on
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| 09:21 | *digs out lili*
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| 09:23 | helps if i have a usb stick kicking around lol
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| 09:25 | * DJUnreal used to have a pile of them all chained together | |
| 09:26 | * DJUnreal sighs... NEVER let your mate look after your place for a week while you're abroad... EVERYTHING moves | |
| 09:30 | <DJUnreal> argh, this is depressing :(
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| 09:30 | * DJUnreal may have to go and buy a new usb stick | |
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| 09:33 | <DJUnreal> i wonder... if i can get it to boot off of a card reader
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| 09:37 | <DJUnreal> gonna try a 2.6 kernel to start with alkisg
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| 09:56 | ok, so it's trying...
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| 09:58 | <DJUnreal> that went... err... badly
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| 09:59 | gonna try the failsafe version
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| 10:02 | so failsave loads /live/vmlinux
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| 10:02 | then loads /live/initrd.img
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| 10:02 | decompresses the kernel
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| 10:02 | parses elf
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| 10:02 | boots the kernel
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| 10:02 | and then hangs
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| 10:02 | <alkisg> Which distro/version is that?
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| 10:02 | <DJUnreal> debian 6.0.4 live
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| 10:03 | but using the failsafe boot
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| 10:03 | means it'll have kernel 2.6
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| 10:03 | 'cause it's stable, not testing
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| 10:03 | and only testing gets 3.2
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| 10:03 | <alkisg> Any messages when it hangs? Also try removing "quiet"
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| 10:03 | <DJUnreal> no 'quiet' in the boot options for that grub entry
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| 10:04 | the last message is "Booting the kernel.f to disable)... ok"
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| 10:04 | the cursor is still blinking
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| 10:04 | but it's not reading the sd card any more
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| 10:05 | i'm tempted to go back to an older knoppix on an older kernel and see how that fares
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| 10:05 | <alkisg> Which thin client is that again? I guess some googling would be the fastest way to find a compatible kernel...
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| 10:05 | <DJUnreal> it's a Neoware CA5
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| 10:05 | and some googling suggested it'd only work with 2.4 series kernels
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| 10:06 | which, for what the kids want to do, isn't gonna be the end of the world
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| 10:06 | <alkisg> Ouch. Then you'd probably need a ...debian sarge chroot, or edgy with backports...
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| 10:06 | <DJUnreal> lenny still shipped with 2,4 i think
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| 10:06 | <alkisg> Or just use DSL and X -query
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| 10:07 | <DJUnreal> hopefully in a few months
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| 10:07 | <alkisg> Btw how much RAM does that have?
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| 10:07 | <DJUnreal> this will all become academic
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| 10:07 | the one i have, i think it's running 256
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| 10:07 | * DJUnreal checks | |
| 10:08 | <alkisg> http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/SiS/Neoware+CA5+thin+client/
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| 10:08 | They say it works with 2.6.25
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| 10:08 | <DJUnreal> ooh good
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| 10:09 | Okay
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| 10:09 | it's got 32MB onboard RAM
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| 10:09 | <DJUnreal> just checking the dimm slot
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| 10:11 | DIMM slot is empty
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| 10:11 | so 32MB atm
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| 10:11 | but i'm sure i can find some 256MB SODIMMs to throw at it
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| 10:12 | <alkisg> DJUnreal: errr then *that's* the kernel problem
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| 10:12 | <DJUnreal> i figured it may be
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| 10:12 | <alkisg> The kernel can't uncompress the initramfs on so little ram
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| 10:12 | * DJUnreal honestly thought it was running at least 256 | |
| 10:13 | <DJUnreal> now to dig out my PC133 SODIMMs
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| 10:13 | <alkisg> You need to add 64Mb more at least
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| 10:13 | <DJUnreal> i should have some 256's in the box
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| 10:24 | aha
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| 10:24 | NOW we're talking
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| 10:24 | just found in my old collection
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| 10:24 | a few 512MB PC133 SODIMMs
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| 10:30 | well bugger me with a rather large watermelon
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| 10:30 | 512MB of RAM later... my servers and switches start flickering into life
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| 10:32 | now i guess i should turn local apps off for this particular client
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| 10:44 | so... for anyone who says the neoware CA5 won't work with kernels pre 3.2
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| 10:44 | they're wrong, provided you have plenty of RAM :)
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| 10:47 | <alkisg> It'd be a lot easier if the kernel just said that "not enough RAM to uncompress the initramfs" :)
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| 10:47 | <DJUnreal> yeah, i agree
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| 10:48 | <alkisg> Lns: ^
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| 10:49 | * DJUnreal reboots it with local apps turned off | |
| 10:50 | <DJUnreal> it's not the fastest machine on the planet to boot
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| 10:50 | takes maybe a minute or two
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| 10:50 | but maybe i can thin the image down a bit
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| 10:50 | <alkisg> You can speed up the booting with NBD
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| 10:50 | (instead of NFS)
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| 10:51 | Does it have a 100mbps network card?
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| 10:51 | <DJUnreal> takes a while to populate /dev etc
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| 10:51 | yeah, 100mbps
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| 10:51 | it's (surprisingly) an RTL8139 :D
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| 10:51 | * DJUnreal used to love those chips back in the day | |
| 10:51 | <alkisg> A compressed nbd image offers about 5-10 times faster disk access than NFS
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| 10:52 | <DJUnreal> and can i use one of those for some machines, and not use it for others?
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| 10:52 | <alkisg> Sure, but you don't have a reason to do so
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| 10:52 | <DJUnreal> i will do
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| 10:53 | basically, the project i'm building is /not/ a static system
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| 10:53 | i run a unit called Scout Internet Support over in the UK for scout groups/areas/districts/whatever to make use of
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| 10:53 | and we run multiple things, including mobile cybercafes for events
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| 10:54 | now at the moment, we have a bunch of desktops (which work fine with NFS and have gigabit NICs etc)
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| 10:54 | and we got donated these neoware clients too
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| 10:54 | so i want to run the neowares on a smaller faster image
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| 10:54 | <alkisg> The advantage of NFS is that you don't have to run ltsp-update-image after each chroot modification... if you're maintaining nbd for some clients, you might as well do it for all
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| 10:54 | NBD size doesn't matter
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| 10:55 | <DJUnreal> Okay
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| 10:57 | * DJUnreal knows for a fact that after the Olympics, his contact at Orange UK will have a load of laptops to donate to him too :) | |
| 10:57 | <DJUnreal> hence i'll already wanna run 2 archs - i386 and amd64
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| 10:58 | i'm tempted to run one arch with NBD and the other with NFS
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| 10:58 | if you think NBD will help
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| 11:00 | <alkisg> NBD does help, not so sure about amd64
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| 11:00 | Btw are you running a lot of localapps or are you using fat clients?
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| 11:02 | <DJUnreal> previously we've had fat clients
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| 11:03 | so ran local apps for them
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| 11:03 | it partly depends on what's available at any site we arrive at
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| 11:05 | the issue is
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| 11:05 | that because most of what we provide is for kids
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| 11:05 | they want to play flash games
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| 11:05 | and lots of them
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| 11:06 | so running everything on the server means that 10 machines way overpower even a dual 3.2GHz system
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| 11:06 | because the majority of flash games out there are badly coded and eat cpu cycles like there's no tomorrow
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| 11:18 | <DJUnreal> ok, i can't work out if it's the client that's suffering
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| 11:19 | or something else in my environment
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| 11:19 | but this is dog slow
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| 11:19 | <alkisg> !ldmdirectx
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| 11:19 | <ltsp> alkisg: Error: "ldmdirectx" is not a valid command.
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| 11:19 | <alkisg> !directx
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| 11:19 | <ltsp> alkisg: directx: If you want to turn off encryption to the workstation, which will speed up performance at the cost of security, you need to specify LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file. Type !docs in IRC to get a link to the current documentation
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| 11:19 | <alkisg> !fatclients
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| 11:19 | <ltsp> alkisg: fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 11:19 | <alkisg> (it's similar for debian too)
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| 11:19 | <DJUnreal> i'm talking things like scrolling in chrome
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| 11:19 | there's a hell of a lag time
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| 11:20 | <alkisg> scrolling in chrome means that the slow client will have to decompress lots of X encrypted data
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| 11:20 | <DJUnreal> but yeah, directx looks like something that needs changing
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| 11:20 | * DJUnreal turns that off for the baby clients then | |
| 11:21 | <DJUnreal> there's no way to have a new .conf change automatically update the way the clients work, i assume
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| 11:22 | <alkisg> Without reboot? No, currently...
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| 11:22 | <DJUnreal> thought not
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| 11:22 | and something as major as turning encryption off would need a reboot anyway i'd assume
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| 11:23 | <alkisg> An X reboot would be enough, but it's not implemente
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| 11:23 | d
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| 11:23 | * DJUnreal nods | |
| 11:23 | <DJUnreal> by the way... what country are you in?
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| 11:24 | <alkisg> Greece
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| 11:24 | <DJUnreal> ah cool
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| 11:31 | <DJUnreal> ok, looks like nbd may be the way to go
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| 11:32 | <alkisg> directx speeds up graphics, nbd speeds up network disk access
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| 11:32 | firefox uses X caching so it's a bit faster than chrome, on thin clients
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| 11:32 | <DJUnreal> firefox doesn't work for us
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| 11:32 | partly because the default install is chinese
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| 11:33 | and partly because last time we tried to use it, it hung if you tried to use the search box in the middle of the homepage
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| 11:33 | the chinese install i could work around easily
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| 11:33 | the search box crash issue, i can't
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| 11:34 | <alkisg> I haven't heard of that issue
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| 11:34 | <DJUnreal> ok, building nbd :)
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| 11:35 | <alkisg> For wheezy I think that ltsp-update-image --force-nbd is enough
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| 11:35 | <DJUnreal> ah, i just did --config-nbd
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| 11:36 | <alkisg> Ah yeah that one
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| 11:36 | <DJUnreal> which seems to be doing its stuff
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| 11:36 | 'cause the ltsp-update-image said "if you're sure, do that"
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| 11:36 | <alkisg> We had a clash when we were trying to decide which name was better :D
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| 11:36 | <DJUnreal> HeHe
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| 11:36 | so just so i can check i understand
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| 11:36 | nbd creates a disk image rather than exporting the server's drives as nfs
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| 11:37 | right?
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| 11:37 | (and hence the requirement to update-image each time it's modified)
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| 11:37 | <alkisg> Right, but you can easily use both
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| 11:39 | <DJUnreal> Okay
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| 11:39 | so i've built the nbd image
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| 11:39 | do i need to put anything in lts.conf or anything to make it work?
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| 11:39 | or will it just use that now?
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| 11:40 | (i see it's created a new .conf file)
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| 11:40 | <alkisg> Check your pxelinux.cfg/default, if it mentions nbd first, you're good to go
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| 11:42 | <DJUnreal> http://paste.debian.net/179161/
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| 11:42 | looks right to me...
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| 11:42 | except the default
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| 11:42 | which needs pointing at nbd
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| 11:42 | <Hyperbyte> !ltsp-pnp
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| 11:42 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 11:43 | <alkisg> DJUnreal: you can temporarily change that manually, or change update-kernels.conf => BOOT_METHODS
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| 11:44 | * DJUnreal changes temporarily to test | |
| 11:46 | <Hyperbyte> Oh shi- ... I just realized I need an i386 system if I want to use ltsp-pnp with i386 clients
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| 11:46 | * DJUnreal grins | |
| 11:47 | <DJUnreal> ok, so something makes me think it's not using the nbd file
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| 11:47 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: should I rewrite the notice in BOLD? :P :D
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| 11:47 | DJUnreal: if you're not using a menu (which you aren't), the first entry is used instead
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| 11:48 | Try changing the menu and the entries orde
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| 11:48 | r
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| 11:48 | <DJUnreal> even if i change the default at the top?
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| 11:48 | <alkisg> Not 100% sure about that
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| 11:48 | So change them both
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| 11:48 | <DJUnreal> i've just commented out the NFS version
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| 11:49 | leaving ltsp-NBD at the top effectively :)
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| 11:49 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, no, I had already installed the system before I considered ltsp-pnp
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| 11:49 | <alkisg> !localxterm | echo DJUnreal:
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| 11:49 | <ltsp> DJUnreal: localxterm: Any applications that you launch on a thin client actually runs on the server, not on the client itself. If you want to open a program on the client locally, you can type 'ltsp-localapps <program>' in a run dialog or in a terminal. For example, 'ltsp-localapps xterm' to open a terminal running on the client.
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| 11:49 | <alkisg> ...and then cat /proc/cmdline
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| 11:49 | To check if it's nbd or nfs
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| 11:50 | <Hyperbyte> But maybe it'd be easier to do traditional fat clients anyways, since I might want to do a bit more with the server besides thin clients.
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| 11:50 | *besides LTSP
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| 11:51 | <alkisg> Sure, you're good enough to manage a chroot with console :)
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| 11:54 | <DJUnreal> hrmm
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| 11:54 | either that's made things worse
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| 11:54 | or it's completely wonky
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| 11:56 | it's faster mounting file systems
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| 11:57 | but it's no faster booting...
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| 11:57 | * DJUnreal wonders if it'll load a GUI this time | |
| 12:01 | <DJUnreal> wow... that's far slower :(
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| 12:01 | <alkisg> Something is wrong then
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| 12:01 | <DJUnreal> yeah
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| 12:01 | NBD is meant to be faster, right?
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| 12:02 | it's just taken 8 minutes to boot the client
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| 12:03 | <alkisg> Compressed NBD gives 5-10 times faster disk access than NFS, so if it's slower for you, something else is wrong
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| 12:05 | * DJUnreal nods | |
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| 15:41 | <vagrantc> highvoltage: looks like the unblock requests are golden! barring RC bugs on ldm/ldm-themes, it should hit wheezy :)
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| 18:29 | <highvoltage> vayay!
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| 18:47 | <Hyperbyte> Hey hey HEY Alkis! :)
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| 18:49 | <Lns> woohoo for newer ltsp in wheezy! =)
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| 18:51 | <alkisg> Hi all
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| 18:51 | Hyperbyte: you fatter now? :D
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| 18:54 | <Hyperbyte> ... what?
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| 18:54 | Oh, the clients for Radio Capelle
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| 18:54 | Yeah, I just built an fat i386 client chroot on the amd64 system
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| 18:55 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 18:55 | Works ok?
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| 18:55 | <Hyperbyte> I need to build this server into a 19" case, and then I can transfer the server to the radio station and start testing properly.
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| 18:55 | No idea... well it built okay
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| 18:55 | As far as testing it goes, I don't really have the setup here to test it.
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| 19:38 | <uskerine> hi, i have installed ltsp, i would like to launch google chrome as local app, but unfortunatelly resolv.conf seems not to be properly configured in the thin clients
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| 19:38 | route is ok
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| 19:38 | but name resolution does not work
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| 19:38 | <muppis> Have you set dns in lts.conf?
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| 19:38 | <uskerine> so ping 87.248.112.181 works
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| 19:39 | but ping www.yahoo.com
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| 19:39 | doesn't
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| 19:39 | no i didn't muppis
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| 19:39 | let me check
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| 19:40 | <uskerine> where and how should i add that?
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| 19:40 | i am using dnsmasq
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| 19:40 | my primary dhcp server is the router
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| 19:40 | then the ltsp server adds pxe info
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| 19:40 | <muppis> !lts.conf | echo uskerine
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| 19:40 | <ltsp> uskerine lts.conf: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
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| 19:40 | <uskerine> i have this for DNS in /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp.conf
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| 19:40 | # Don't function as a DNS server:
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| 19:40 | #port=0
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| 19:41 | why the thin client does not get the DNS servers ip's with the DHCP?
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| 19:42 | <muppis> Are them defined to be send within?
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| 19:43 | I'm use dnsmasq in my router to serve all before pxe, including dns.
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| 19:44 | <uskerine> i did not want to use dns in the server, but in the main router
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| 19:45 | i always forget
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| 19:45 | should i modify lts.conf
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| 19:45 | under
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| 19:45 | /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
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| 19:45 | or under
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| 19:45 | /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/
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| 19:45 | ?
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| 19:46 | <muppis> Under /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 then you don't need to rebuild the image.
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| 19:46 | Just reboot the client.
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| 19:46 | <uskerine> then if i modify under /opt
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| 19:46 | and rebuild
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| 19:46 | then /var ir will be modified
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| 19:46 | then /var will be modified
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| 19:46 | right?
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| 19:47 | <muppis> You don't need both. /var/lib... is fine and easier.
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| 19:47 | <uskerine> ok
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| 19:48 | <muppis> It's fetched in every boot so client will be updated from changes in file.
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| 19:51 | <uskerine> i have modified lts.conf adding DNS_SERVER=192.168.10.1
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| 19:51 | i have restarted the thin client
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| 19:51 | but it does not work
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| 19:51 | /etc/resolv.conf does not show 192.168.10.1 as name server
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| 19:51 | and ping www.yahoo.com
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| 19:51 | does not work
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| 19:51 | any further idea?
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| 19:51 | <muppis> Can you put whole lts.conf to pastebin?
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| 19:52 | <uskerine> it is really simple
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| 19:52 | LDM_THEME=ubuntu
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| 19:52 | DNS_SERVER=192.168.10.1
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| 19:52 | no need for pastebin, i have just that
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| 19:52 | <muppis> Missing [default] at start, so it doesn't get parsed.
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| 19:52 | <uskerine> wow
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| 19:52 | thanks
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| 19:53 | <muppis> Common problem. ;)
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| 19:55 | <uskerine> thanks it works now
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| 19:55 | although dns server is not under /etc/resolv.conf
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| 19:55 | do you know where it is "stored" now?
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| 19:57 | <muppis> Actually, I don't. :D Never needed by myself.
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| 19:57 | <uskerine> ok
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| 19:58 | what if i want to set primary and secondary dns servers?
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| 19:58 | DNS_SERVER=192.168.10.1 and 192.168.10.2
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| 19:58 | which is the right syntax?
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| 19:58 | (tha'ts not the in the man page)
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| 19:58 | <muppis> Space separated.
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| 19:59 | <uskerine> thanks
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