IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 7 August 2018 (all times are UTC)
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| 08:53 | <Helenah> Yo yo yooooo, what's happenin'?
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| 08:53 | Hot out, init?
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| 08:54 | Anyway, time to get serious, just thought I'd noisy you guys up a lil. I noticed printers, scanners and fstabs can be set in lts.conf.
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| 08:54 | If I was to defined a printer in lts.conf, do I assign it the name I've gave the printer in cups?
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| 08:56 | I'd also like to know the best way of mounting the home directories on another drive.
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| 09:07 | <alkisg> Helenah: thin or fat clients? where is the printer, on the server or on the client or elsewhere?
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| 09:07 | And what do you mean "home directories on another drive", is that a local disk of the client?
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| 09:07 | <Helenah> There is a disk in the server I would rather use.
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| 09:07 | <alkisg> If you mean that you want to move the server /home in another disk/partition, that question isn't related to ltsp
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| 09:08 | <Helenah> Also, the printers are connected to the server as I would rather have it central to all the fat clients.
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| 09:08 | <alkisg> You boot from a live cd, move /home, then put the correct line in #fstab; ask your distro #channel for details there
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| 09:08 | <Helenah> hmm
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| 09:08 | <alkisg> (or you logout from the system, login from the console as root, and do it from there)
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| 09:09 | If you put the printers to the server, fat clients automatically see them
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| 09:09 | <Helenah> aaah
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| 09:09 | <alkisg> You don't need to do anything at all (assuming a recent ltsp that automatically enables cups printer sharing)
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| 09:09 | <Helenah> So no need to configure the printer directives?
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| 09:09 | <alkisg> Right
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| 09:09 | <Helenah> Okay, I'll take a look at that.
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| 09:10 | So Control Center, Printers?
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| 09:10 | Looks like I need cups on the server, I'll do that now, or it needs starting?
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| 09:10 | <alkisg> What's the output of this? cupsctl | grep share
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| 09:11 | <Helenah> Appears I got cups
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| 09:11 | _share_printers=0
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| 09:11 | <alkisg> Anyway just run this on the server: sudo cupsctl _share_printers=1
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| 09:11 | <Helenah> hmm aaah
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| 09:11 | Useful tool, is that a wrapper?
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| 09:12 | <alkisg> You're supposed to do that via the gui, but you're making things hard
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| 09:12 | <Helenah> I stuck with your traditional setup in the end.
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| 09:12 | <alkisg> If you have a gui, then just use the "share printers" checkbox from the gui
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| 09:12 | <Helenah> As I foound your guide is the most stable out of all the setups out there, as long as you don't use Ubuntu Server as the LTSP server.
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| 09:13 | Is that Unity or MATE? I'm using MATE myself.
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| 09:13 | on the fat clients, atleast
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| 09:14 | <alkisg> Which desktop environment are you using on the server?
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| 09:15 | <Helenah> Unity, as I installed Ubuntu desktop.
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| 09:15 | <alkisg> So you're using a different desktop environment on the server vs the clients? Why?
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| 09:19 | <Helenah> Your guide recommended to use MATE on the clients, and I can understand why, on thin clients, Unity is a heavy solution, however I didn't see the point in removing Unity from the LTSP server which is what I would've opted to do if I was to install MATE on the server also. Anyway, I noticed in thin clients, I get Unity anyway and thin clients have available to them whatever is on the server root. If I have
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| 09:19 | problems, I'll probably consider switching out Unity for MATE.
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| 09:20 | <alkisg> "Anyway, I noticed in thin clients, I get Unity anyway" ==> exactly, the mate recommendation was for the server, for thin clients, not for fat clients
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| 09:20 | <Helenah> However, I'm currently not using thin clients.
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| 09:20 | <alkisg> OK anyway both environments have a gui to share printers
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| 09:21 | And if you're using 18.04 I assume you're using gnome, not unity
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| 09:21 | <Helenah> I may have miscomprehended your guide, and I don't apologise for that mistake on my behalf, however just by playing around with LTSP, reinstalling it a couple of times, applying custom configurations, etc, I've come a long way and learned a lot. I found LTSP very confusing at first, and it still is a little, but I'm learning.
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| 09:21 | Yeah, MATE, a gnome2 base
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| 09:21 | In the chroot
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| 09:21 | <alkisg> All I'm saying is that it's best to stick to the recommendations for the first setup, and THEN go to customizations
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| 09:22 | Printer sharing happens on the server
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| 09:22 | <fiesh> alkisg: btw, I did a quick benchmark on xz vs gzip vs lz4 recently...
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| 09:22 | gzip: 24286371840
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| 09:22 | xz: 21738356736
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| 09:22 | xz -Xbcj x86: 21677334528
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| 09:22 | xz -Xbcj x86 -Xdict-size '100%': 21677334528
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| 09:22 | lz4: 30622318592
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| 09:22 | however:
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| 09:22 | gzip:
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| 09:22 | fiesh@ltsp117 /usr/bin % time cp inkscape /tmp/
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| 09:22 | cp inkscape /tmp/ 0.00s user 0.22s system 66% cpu 0.329 total
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| 09:22 | xz:
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| 09:22 | fiesh@ltsp117 /usr/bin % time cp inkscape /tmp/
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| 09:22 | <Helenah> I'd rather printer sharing on the server too, so I'm glad it happens there by default.
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| 09:22 | <fiesh> cp inkscape /tmp/ 0.00s user 0.70s system 88% cpu 0.793 total
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| 09:22 | lz4:
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| 09:22 | fiesh@ltsp117 /usr/bin % time cp inkscape /tmp/
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| 09:22 | cp inkscape /tmp/ 0.00s user 0.08s system 35% cpu 0.232 total
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| 09:22 | <Helenah> Wouldn't a pastebin be better?
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| 09:22 | <fiesh> so I go for lz4 now, it has better performance (it's actually slightly noticable when starting big applications like firefox)
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| 09:22 | <alkisg> Yeah a pastebin would help there... fiesh let me read those..
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| 09:23 | <fiesh> ah yeah that would have been smarter ;)
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| 09:23 | <Helenah> IRC is slow with message buffers, and therefore can garble up conversations.
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| 09:23 | <fiesh> sorry yeah I'm in a big factory at a customer right now, kinda distracted ;)
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| 09:23 | <alkisg> fiesh: I'm not sure what the tests involved, but anyway the end result is that the ltsp defaults are fine for now?
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| 09:23 | <Helenah> It's fine, don't worry about it, it's only me, alkisg and you, and I feel for you with the distraction part.
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| 09:24 | <fiesh> alkisg: the end result is that lz4 provides, with a rather big margin, for the best performance -- at least with rather fast hardware and gigabit ethernet
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| 09:24 | <alkisg> fiesh: what is the ltsp default,lz4?
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| 09:25 | fiesh: also, I'd test with something that needed 10+ seconds to be more reliable, and I'd drop the kernel caches before doing so
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| 09:28 | <fiesh> alkisg: ltsp defaults to gzip. there was no caching involved, the file is like 20M, but I agree one could have picked something bigger
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| 09:29 | <Helenah> I'm not really sure how to log into the cups ui
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| 09:29 | I'll probs research that one tho
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| 09:29 | <alkisg> Helenah: you can use distro channels for general help that doesn't involve ltsp
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| 09:29 | For gnome, it should be in the printers dialog, settings menu
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| 09:30 | Helenah: but I already gave you the command line for it, so you don't even need to research it
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| 09:30 | Helenah: try: system-config-printer
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| 09:32 | <fiesh> anyway, I think lz4 is probably the best option by default, unless file size really matters (and our image is rather huge I'd assume compared to normal applications)
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| 09:33 | <Helenah> The only printer I seem to be getting is cups-brf-printer
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| 09:33 | <alkisg> Helenah: do you mean on the server, or on the clients?
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| 09:33 | <Helenah> Hold on, I think I found the issue
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| 09:36 | Yeah, it appears I didn't have the printer allocated to the VM, I've allocated it so hopefully I'll have better luck next time.
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| 09:36 | alkisg: The server
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| 09:37 | <alkisg> Ah ok, not an ltsp issue then; again the #distro channel would be better
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| 10:17 | <Helenah> Hi
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| 10:18 | Okay so, I'm now confused, I thought the tftpboot dir was in /var/lib? According to locate, I no longer have this directory and I need to edit the lts.conf file within it.
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| 10:18 | I didn't remove it either.
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| 10:19 | <alkisg> locate might not be up to date. Try ls /var/lib/tftpboot
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| 10:19 | <Helenah> I did, the dir isn't there anymore
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| 10:19 | <alkisg> There's no LTSP code to delete that dir
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| 10:19 | <Helenah> Then I'm confused
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| 10:20 | <alkisg> Something else deleted it, probably manual
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| 10:20 | <Helenah> hmm
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| 10:20 | and how are clients able to boot without it?
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| 10:20 | It must be on the system, right?
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| 10:20 | <alkisg> Are you sure you're on the server and not in your chroot?
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| 10:20 | <Helenah> otherwise... clients wouldn't boot
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| 10:20 | Yeah
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| 10:20 | I double checked I was on the right server, then I double checked I wasn't in a chroot
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| 10:20 | and I made sure nothing else was trying to use the same IP as the server
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| 10:21 | even though I know nothing else would be doing that anyway
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| 10:21 | <alkisg> Try restarting dnsmasq, then rebooting a client
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| 10:21 | There are other tftp dirs but I doubt you changed your setup to use a different dir without you knowing about it
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| 10:22 | <Helenah> Weird... dnsmasq has gone too...
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| 10:22 | <alkisg> It sounds like you're not in your server :)
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| 10:22 | Open a new terminal tab
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| 10:22 | Or reboot
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| 10:23 | <Helenah> Okay, I sorted the issue, a triple check cut it.
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| 10:23 | I found it bizarre too btw
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| 10:35 | <Helenah> Coffee never tasted soo goood, coffee never tasted soo goood, coffee never tasted so good... to me
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| 10:42 | alkisg: If I ever bump into you irl, I'll buy you a beer, hows that sound?
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| 10:42 | <alkisg> Helenah: where are you located?
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| 10:43 | <Helenah> UK, not suggesting that you're in the UK, however, you never know? I might go abroad or something and bump into some guy with an LTSP t-shirt, hey wouldn't that be neato?
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| 10:46 | <alkisg> Sure, great :)
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| 10:46 | <Helenah> :)
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| 10:47 | Anyway, I was trying to encorporate LTSP in with textile manufacturing processes and CNC, the setup is stable and working.
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| 10:48 | CNC embroidery and 3D printing for buttons to be exact.
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| 14:05 | <bwicksall> Any tips for removing a systemd service from the client? I have x11vnc.service for remote access to the server. I don't want this service to run on the clients.
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| 14:10 | <alkisg> bwicksall: RM_SYSTEM_SERVICES=x11vnc
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| 14:10 | (in lts.conf)
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| 14:11 | <bwicksall> I knew it would be easy. Thanks!
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| 19:22 | <enaut[m]> Anyone any Idea?
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| 19:32 | <Hyperbyte> enaut[m], I have lots of ideas about lots of things. What are you talking about?
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| 19:35 | <enaut[m]> I have just seen that my initial question didn't make it to the irc - maybe the matrix transport isn't that good :(
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| 19:35 | I did setup a ubuntu 18.04 ltsp however many programms do not start (gnome-terminal, libreoffice...)
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| 19:35 | gome terminal says "# Error constructing proxy For org.gnome.terminal […] timeout"
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| 19:36 | libreoffice complains that java is not installed then segfaults.
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| 19:36 | <||cw> they run fine on the server itself?
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| 19:36 | <enaut[m]> what could have gone wrong? I followed http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu the chroot path...
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| 19:36 | yep
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| 19:37 | though I have a chroot setup so the server and the chroot is probably something different... I did not try to qemu or something similar.
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| 19:38 | if I generate the image from the root of the system they work too...
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| 19:38 | <||cw> is the client fat or thin mode?
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| 19:39 | <enaut[m]> I followed http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu the chroot path...
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| 19:39 | I think I succeeded in making it fat...
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| 19:39 | <||cw> it can still be either, default is based on client RAM
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| 19:39 | 1GB ram or more?
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| 19:40 | <enaut[m]> 2-3GB of ram
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| 19:40 | <||cw> so should be fat. other programs work?
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| 19:40 | <enaut[m]> in client 8GB in server
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| 19:41 | xterm works fine... while I created it I added the parameter ltsp-build-client --fat
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| 19:42 | <||cw> google says it's a locale issue
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| 19:42 | <alkisg> " while I created it I added the parameter ltsp-build-client --fat " ==> enaut[m], when you open an xterm on the client, do you see user@serverhostname, or user@ltsp123?
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| 19:43 | (there's no --fat option, unless you typed it wrong just now)
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| 19:44 | <||cw> https://askubuntu.com/questions/608330/problem-with-gnome-terminal-on-gnome-3-12-2/651169#651169
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| 19:44 | <enaut[m]> It was user@ltsp345 ...
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| 19:45 | <alkisg> OK that means it's fat. And what's the output of env | grep ^L ?
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| 19:45 | Put it to pastebin...
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| 19:47 | one easy way to put it to pastebin: env | grep ^L | nc termbin.com 9999
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| 19:48 | <enaut[m]> The locale thing could be the problem... I'll try that one tomorow unfortunately I'm at home now so I can not do your commands alkisg - will do tomorrow too but I think you helped already
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| 19:48 | <alkisg> Oh that was ||cw helping, not me :) If it's indeed an issue, let's document it in the wiki.
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| 19:49 | The chroot method needs some love from an ltsp developer though, noone uses it anymore...
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| 19:49 | <enaut[m]> yes I will report it if I find a solution...
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| 19:51 | but while we are at it... I think the ltsp-update-image in the chroot mode requires the chroot as argument isn't it?
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| 19:51 | <alkisg> Not for the default chroot
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| 19:51 | So if you have a default chroot named e.g. amd64, you can omit it
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| 19:52 | <enaut[m]> but then it created an image of my server running ubuntu instead of an image of the chroot...
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| 19:54 | <||cw> wait, the chroot isn't ubuntu?
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| 19:55 | <enaut[m]> meaning on my server there is very little installed and on the thin clients I have libreoffice and stuff installed. when I just did ltsp-update-image I only had the server programs.
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| 19:55 | everything is ubuntu
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| 19:56 | <Hyperbyte> Hey hey alkisg what's this
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| 19:56 | "noone uses it anymore"?
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| 19:57 | * Hyperbyte is a proud user of chroots in at least 2 installations. | |
| 19:57 | <enaut[m]> *ubuntu18.04 to be more specific
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| 19:57 | I'll also retry and report that back tomorrow
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| 19:58 | <Hyperbyte> You and your efficient, easy, shiny 'chrootless' setup. Bah. Some people just like the classics.
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| 19:58 | ;-)
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| 19:58 | To be fair I would probably switch everything I have over to chrootless and fat client when I can.
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| 19:59 | <enaut[m]> Hyperbyte, ||cw : I had the pnp installation running with a virtual machine... however I found it confusing to mix the server and client stuff
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| 19:59 | <||cw> how so? you don't have to have X11 actually run on the server
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| 20:00 | <Hyperbyte> enaut[m], same here. I'm actually using thin clients, so there's a bit more advantages in that case vs. if you're using fat clients.
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| 20:00 | <||cw> I mean, a gui login prompt
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| 20:00 | <Hyperbyte> For fat clients, it might be easier to go the chrootless way. But I do understand it can be a confusing concept at first.
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| 20:03 | <enaut[m]> Anyways thanks for the help so far...
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| 20:05 | <alkisg> [22:56] <Hyperbyte> "noone uses it anymore"? => noone of the developers, I mean
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| 20:06 | Hyperbyte: for example, the locale might be set by casper, while debootstrap doesn't have that code. Which means ltsp-build-client should get that code; but that will only happen if someone actually tests/codes it...
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| 20:43 | <alkisg> [22:52] <enaut[m]> but then it created an image of my server running ubuntu instead of an image of the chroot... ==> that's only if you specify "/" as the name
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