IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 2 August 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 05:47 | <pitipiti> Hi I'm looking for a way to set up so that different screen (Ctrl + Alt + Fx) serves different desktop manager in particular gdm and ldm. Can someone point me in the right direction?
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| 05:47 | so that when the ltsp server is down the user will at least have a working gnome
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| 05:50 | <intelliant> hi! anyone experienced with ltsp-cluster setup ?
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| 05:50 | I have overcome a major hurdle in authenticating against ldap
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| 05:51 | <muppis> pitipiti, using dhpcd from ltsp server or somerwhere else?
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| 05:51 | <pitipiti> from ubuntu
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| 05:51 | which is kinda yes
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| 05:51 | I have a ltsp server client already set up
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| 05:52 | but I wan to try something like if I have a working desktop (not thin client)
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| 05:52 | <muppis> pitipiti, so I suggest to do with boot order. If pxe-booting cannot get IP and continue booting, then bootup from local HDD.
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| 05:52 | <pitipiti> ahhhhh
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| 05:52 | why didn't I think of that ....
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| 05:53 | <muppis> But then you can't use dhcp in local installation.
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| 05:53 | <intelliant> the uri specification in /etc/ldap.conf does not work as is mentioned in all config docs
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| 05:54 | <pitipiti> what do you mean? muppis
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| 05:54 | I thought even if it gets the ip
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| 05:54 | but not the root-path and all that stuff
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| 05:54 | it will fail to boot and fall back to hd??
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| 05:54 | <intelliant> only host works, so one must comment out the uri directive and only keep the host one
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| 05:55 | but now I have run against another wall, the users are able to ssh to any appserver but unable to log in from the TCs
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| 05:58 | <pitipiti> but thanks muppis
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| 05:58 | easy solution :) I was dumb lol
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| 05:59 | oh... now i see what you mean
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| 05:59 | dhcpd and ltsp is on the same machine
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| 05:59 | that's not a problem for our setup though
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| 05:59 | thanks a bunch
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| 06:12 | <intelliant> hi! anyone experienced with ltsp-cluster setup
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| 06:13 | i'm kind of lost
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| 06:18 | <Appiah> just ask! :)
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| 06:18 | <intelliant> hi Appiah!
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| 06:18 | <Appiah> heya
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| 06:18 | <intelliant> I owe you an apology first
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| 06:18 | it worked finally
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| 06:19 | <Appiah> huh?
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| 06:19 | the pam/ldap thingy?
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| 06:20 | <intelliant> yes
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| 06:20 | was following these steps - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LDAPClientAuthentication#Notes%20for%207.10%20and%20later
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| 06:20 | <Appiah> oh , what was the problem?
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| 06:20 | <intelliant> it drove me crazy
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| 06:20 | the uri entry in /etc/ldap.conf does not work
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| 06:20 | it needs to be commented out and replaced with only the host entry
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| 06:20 | keeping both also is dangerous
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| 06:21 | it would simple not resolve to the ldap server
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| 06:21 | will update the wiki as well once the complete setup is working
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| 06:21 | now though i am able to ssh into the appservers
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| 06:21 | as any ldap user i mean
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| 06:21 | i am unable to login via TCs
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| 06:22 | <intelliant> where should i check the logs for this
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| 06:23 | there is no mention of ltsp-update-sshkeys as well
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| 06:23 | could that be an issue
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| 06:24 | have set the root password in the chroot and run ltsp-update-image --arch i386
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| 06:24 | now rebooting the TC and hopefully I shall be able to see some TC logs directly
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| 06:28 | <intelliant> Appiah: ^^
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| 06:34 | <intelliant> Hey! it worked
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| 06:35 | looked like rebuilding the image auto-did whatever was required to take into consideration the newly configured appservers
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| 06:36 | :)
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| 06:41 | <EXP> does the ltsp multiboot work with 10.04? i followed these instructions but itt does not work: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPMultiboot
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| 06:42 | there is no prompt to choose
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| 06:47 | <alkisg> EXP: what OS do your clients have?
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| 06:49 | <EXP> i have 2-3 machines that have xp installed
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| 06:50 | those instrustions worked before but after update it stopped to work
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| 06:52 | <alkisg> You can easily install gpxe into the XP boot manager, but if you prefer pxelinux menus, I'm using this stanza to boot XP: http://ltsp.pastebin.com/uCp8G4cQ
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| 06:53 | (I'm using chain.c32 instead of localboot so that I can choose from the pxe menu which local OS to boot)
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| 06:53 | Here's the result: http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/tosteki/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2828.0;attach=1672;image
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| 06:53 | (image)
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| 07:24 | <uday> Hi all
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| 07:26 | I'm using lenny at a college. don't know from where to download ltsp 5 or how to install either kindly help
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| 10:05 | <redbaritone> I need some help.
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| 10:05 | I foobared my LTS lab when I removed Wine.
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| 10:06 | Now, immediately following a login, the screen goes black, and then to a pretty blue screen with a hard drive, a globe, a hammer, etc. (I think it's a Netboot screen.)
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| 10:07 | Note that I can't even log into the gnome environment on my admin account on the server.
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| 10:07 | (Terminal login works.)
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| 10:07 | Where should I look to find what's screwed up?
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| 10:09 | Please help!
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| 10:23 | <redbaritone> My next move is saving some configuration files and wiping the hard drive to start over. Please, someone tell me this isn't necessary!
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| 11:03 | <Kyle__> Hi. Is it possible to setup an LTSP server on a dislike distro than the clients? If so, could someone point me to a doc so I can read up on it?
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| 12:03 | <redbaritone> Kyle__: Why do you want to do that? Do you mean something like having an OpenSuse server supporting Edubuntu clients, or do you mean a 64-bit server supporting 32-bit clients? (The latter is certainly possible.)
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| 12:03 | <Kyle__> redbaritone: Like a centos server supporting Ubuntu clients. Mostly because I already have the server setup, and don't relish the idea of rebuilding it thisafternoon. Not that I can't :)
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| 12:04 | And err, actually the second too, since thge server is 32 bit and the clients 64.
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| 12:04 | <redbaritone> How many clients?
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| 12:04 | <Kyle__> 20 in this lab. Another 30 in a second lab (to be supported by a different server).
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| 12:05 | <redbaritone> 32-bit server should support the 4GB you'll need for those 20 clients.
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| 12:07 | <redbaritone> You're fighting an uphill battle if you try supporting a different distro, though. I've never tried it, but I imagine you'd want the same package manager, etc. In fact, I read that it's a good idea to keep the server and thin clients at the same version of the SAME distro, so if that's any indication...
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| 12:08 | What do I know, though. I foobarred my distro last night. :-(
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| 12:08 | <Kyle__> redbaritone: Fair enough. I just figured I'd check. Never having used LTSP before, there was always a chance it had some fabulous tool I'd never heard of, allowing me to do that ;)
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| 12:08 | Ouch. What did you do? Replace glibc or somefin?
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| 12:10 | <redbaritone> I removed Wine, and I think it removed something that's affecting my gnome enviro. Just after logging in (even at the server), the screen goes black, then returns to the login screen. On the clients, it goes to a netboot screen, then goes black. If I give it three fingers, it lets me log out of the client.
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| 12:10 | Could that be glibc?
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| 12:10 | Where do I go to track down problems like this?
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| 12:11 | <Kyle__> Removing wine shouldn't do that, somethign else deffinately happened. What happens if you login using the failsafe terminal? It should be listed as xterm or twm...something like that.
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| 12:12 | <redbaritone> I can login with terminal, but not through the gui (gnome) environment.
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| 12:13 | <redbaritone> My accounts are all screwed at login. (Even on the server.)
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| 12:14 | <Kyle__> redbaritone: There should be a failsafe gui environment you select though the sessions menu. But the console should be enough to fix things anyway. What distro are you using?
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| 12:14 | <redbaritone> After removing wine, I noticed that the wine menu option was still hanging around. Note to self: when there's a menu item still hanging around, for an application you KNOW is gone, don't get curious and click the it! :-/
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| 12:16 | I'm a bit of a newb myself. I still don't quite "get" when you need to just update an application on the server, and when you need to update the chroot environment. Is there some kind of clean separation of duties that's in the docs somewhere? If so, I missed it.
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| 12:53 | <Lns> redbaritone: What is the distro you're using? If it's Ubuntu there's a fairly documented wiki that has info on troubleshooting stuff like what you're experiencing.
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| 12:53 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/
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| 12:59 | <johnny> redbaritone, anything clients access is on the server (if you're not using fatclients or local apps)
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| 12:59 | everything past the initial login screen
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| 13:19 | <AndyGraybeal> okay, i'm sorry - i don't do this very often, but i don't need to rebuild my image if i change lts.conf correct?
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| 13:20 | <johnny> nope..
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| 13:21 | <AndyGraybeal> thanks johnny
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| 13:39 | <jammcq> hey friends
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| 13:44 | <denisesball> hey does anyone know of a way to see what website a user currently has open?
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| 13:45 | <alkisg> vagrantc: the problem with --arch and --base was that I put the parameter handling into a function :-/
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| 13:45 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 13:45 | alkisg: at least you figured it out...
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| 13:45 | <alkisg> So the correct solution is to move them back out :D
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| 13:45 | (or just use eval)
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| 13:52 | <alkisg> denisesball: with xprop or xwininfo you can get the window title, but I don't know of any easy way to get the URL, other than writing a small firefox extension for this.
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| 13:53 | <denisesball> yeah because sometimes certain users firefox makes the load pretty high and all i can see is it's firefox and flash but i'd like to know the site so i can tell their managers to yell at them or not
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| 13:54 | might not even be in an active tab
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| 13:55 | <alkisg> I believe a firefox extension could give you a list of all the URLs, but I don't know of any other (==easy) way to get internal firefox data from the outside
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| 13:56 | <denisesball> i was thinking checking the cache or history files, but i think that might be binary in sqlite
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| 13:56 | <alkisg> Squid with identd would give you the user, but you wouldn't know if he still has the tab open etc
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| 13:56 | It's easy to do it with sqllite, but it's locked when the user has firefox open
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| 13:57 | I'm not sure if making a copy while firefox is running and working at the copy would work
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| 13:57 | <denisesball> i could give it a shot
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| 13:57 | <alkisg> Even if you see "site a" in the history, you still wouldn't know if it still has that page open
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| 13:57 | <denisesball> yeah thats ture
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| 13:57 | true*
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| 13:57 | <alkisg> So I believe a firefox extension is the safest way for this
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| 13:58 | <denisesball> i'd really need to cross reference the PID to the url
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| 13:58 | the extension is probably more work than worth, installing it for all of them, and then making sure they dont remove it
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| 13:59 | <alkisg> Extensions can be installed per system too (not only per user)
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| 13:59 | E.g. see adblock-plus
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| 13:59 | <denisesball> yeah but isnt that one a package?
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| 13:59 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 13:59 | <denisesball> so that was as simple as apt-get install adblock-plus
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| 13:59 | but i dont know if the extension i want is available like that
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| 14:00 | <alkisg> Right. So the correct solution would be to make "sudo apt-get install xul-url-monitor" :)
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| 14:00 | Sure, it would need some work. I don't know of any easy solution.
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| 14:00 | <denisesball> i dont see that package?
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| 14:00 | <alkisg> I'm saying that you should write that from scratch
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| 14:00 | <denisesball> oh lol
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| 14:01 | that is not something i know how to do
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| 14:01 | <alkisg> I understand. I just don't know of any other way that would work, other than a firefox extension.
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| 14:02 | <denisesball> thats ok. i see xwininfo needs a window variable, how can i get that from ps? or would i do that a different way?
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| 14:05 | <AndyGraybeal> does 'user-switching' work in ubuntu 10.04 with ltsp ?
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| 14:06 | <alkisg> AndyGraybeal: no, it's a gdm feature, ldm doesn't support it
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| 14:06 | <AndyGraybeal> aah okay; thank you.
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| 14:06 | does anyone use sabayon to create profiles for ltsp?
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| 14:08 | <alkisg> denisesball: xlsclients -l
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| 14:10 | <AndyGraybeal> i love the ldm splash screen :) whoever designd that is awesome
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| 14:12 | <denisesball> alkisg: xlsclients -l works perfect on my PC, but on the termserver i get xlsclients: unable to open display ""
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| 14:13 | <alkisg> denisesball: yeah you need to sudo to access the user display etc
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| 14:13 | ...you can find that in the user environment, e.g. /proc/<userpid>/environ - it will take some programming to do it
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| 14:13 | <denisesball> ~$ sudo xlsclients -l
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| 14:13 | xlsclients: unable to open display ""
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| 14:14 | <alkisg> No no it's not that easy
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| 14:14 | <denisesball> oh i see what u mean
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| 14:14 | <alkisg> sudo cat /proc/$pid/environ | tr "\000" "\n" | sed -n 's/^DISPLAY=//p'
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| 14:14 | ...where pid is some user process
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| 14:14 | Then you set display, xauthority etc etc
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| 14:14 | It's not easy, it's better to do it properly with a firefox extension
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| 14:15 | <denisesball> yeah i see that now
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| 14:24 | <alkisg> Here's a script I once made to get access to the user displays: http://ltsp.pastebin.com/TzrCeXin
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| 14:24 | After you do that, you can run sudo DISPLAY=$userdisplay xwininfo -root -tree | grep -i "Mozilla Firefox"
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| 14:25 | You'll need some shell understanding to go through all this...
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| 14:26 | <denisesball> sweet alkisg i'll give it a shot!
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| 14:45 | <redbaritone> Lns and johnny: I'm using Edubuntu. Thanks. Yes, I know everything is on the server, and I know about the Ubuntu wiki. It's been SO helpful. I think the ClientTroubleshooting link deals primarily with what happens UP TO the login screen. I need to troubleshoot something that's happening just after the authentication. Am I wrong? I think I might need to turn on remote syslog to discover what's happening.
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| 14:46 | <johnny> well that's possible, there are docs for that
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| 14:46 | just after authentication is on the sever
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| 14:47 | <AndyGraybeal> by default, does the actual server use LDM or GDM? It looks like right now my clients are using LDM, like they should be, but my server is using GDM. is this okay?
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| 14:47 | <Lns> redbaritone: have you gone through /var/log/auth, messages, Xorg.*.log on the server right after trying to authenticate? Do those not give you any clues?
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| 14:47 | AndyGraybeal: that's fine
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| 14:48 | <AndyGraybeal> Lns: what if i wanted my server do use LDM, would that be a drawback?
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| 14:48 | <Lns> LDM is for the terminal-side only (runs on the terminal)
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| 14:48 | <AndyGraybeal> i'm using ubuntu 10.04
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| 14:48 | lns, awesome, thakn you for your response L)
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| 14:48 | <Lns> I don't really see why, but maybe?
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| 14:48 | <AndyGraybeal> :)
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| 14:49 | <AndyGraybeal> how do i remove 'switch user' from the 'lock screen' menu?
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| 14:49 | <redbaritone> Lns: No, I haven't looked at /var/log/auth, but I will now. Also, are Xorg.*.log in /var/log as well?
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| 14:50 | <Lns> yes
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| 14:50 | <redbaritone> Lns: Thanks. I'll have a look at them a little later on.
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| 14:50 | <AndyGraybeal> ah disable user swiching in gconf
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| 15:25 | <redbaritone> Does SHUTDOWN_TIME actually shut down the clients at that time?
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| 15:25 | Or is this so the server will know that they're otherwise (via script) being shut down at that time?
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| 15:26 | <vagrantc> redbaritone: the former
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| 15:26 | unless people are using them
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| 15:27 | <redbaritone> cool! Thanks!
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| 15:28 | My lab's computers were unnecessarily on, all night. If for no other reason than to shut down those fans, from filtering the dust out of the air, I'm gonna do this!
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| 15:31 | <AndyGraybeal> i've changed my umask in /etc/profile from 022 to 002; and when i touch a file, it's permissions are -rw-r--r-- .. and isn't 002 suppoed to set it to -rw-rw-r--?
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| 15:31 | i'm using ubuntu 10.04 and gnome
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| 15:32 | <vagrantc> AndyGraybeal: logged in from LDM?
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| 15:32 | <AndyGraybeal> vagrantc: yes
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| 15:32 | <vagrantc> AndyGraybeal: known bug in debian
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| 15:33 | <AndyGraybeal> evil
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| 15:33 | <vagrantc> doesn't read /etc/profile
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| 15:33 | <AndyGraybeal> how do i fix?
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| 15:34 | <vagrantc> http://bugs.debian.org/542270
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| 15:34 | there's a workaround in there for setting an environment variable. hopefully works for setting umask as well
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| 15:41 | <AndyGraybeal> vagrantc: workd like a charm.
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| 15:43 | <vagrantc> good
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| 15:51 | <redbaritone> Is there a good article or documentation which explains WHEN you need to update chroot, versus when you only need to update an application on the server? I can't get my head around what is actually needed in the image, and what is needed only on the server.
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| 15:54 | <sweetpi> redbaritone: if you mean the nbd image, anytime you change the chroot you need to rebuild the image if you want nbd clients to be able to access the changes
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| 15:55 | I think im not understanding your question though
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| 15:57 | <redbaritone> Yeah, I know that. What I mean is, why for some things, do I need to chroot, and for others, I just need to update the application on the server? To install the flash plugin, for example, I just needed to do that on the server. Do ALL applications only need to be updated on the server? If it resides in the PATH, does it have to be updated on chroot, too?
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| 16:00 | Also, things like: Can I install applications from my (admin) account, while using a thin client? Doesn't it have access to the same directories, as if I'm actually using the server itself?
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| 16:00 | <sweetpi> well I'm new to ltsp, I obviously need to read docs. I thought everything client side ran from the chroot/nbd
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| 16:01 | <redbaritone> Apparently Firefox is installed ONCE, on the server. (It doesn't have to be in the nbd image.) Right?
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| 16:02 | <vagrantc> redbaritone: unless you're using local apps or fat clients, everything should be installed on the server.
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| 16:02 | by default, you just install stuff on the server.
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| 16:03 | <sweetpi> vagrantc: Am I wrong thinking thin clients access everything from the chroot/nbd?
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| 16:03 | <vagrantc> sweetpi: depends on what you mean by access
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| 16:03 | typically, the thin client just logs into the server, and all applications run on the server.
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| 16:03 | hence *thin* client.
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| 16:04 | it's essentially just a keyboard/mouse/monitor for the server.
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| 16:04 | <sweetpi> yes, but the client chroots or uses the nbd as root correct?
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| 16:06 | <highvoltage> sweetpi: thin clients basically boots up a whole distribution (ltsp) that connects to desktop sessions on other computers. the chroot/nbd just contains the distribution that the clients boot up from
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| 16:07 | <sweetpi> highvoltage: ok, so If I update say iceweasel on the chroot, the client will not have access to that version?
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| 16:08 | <vagrantc> sweetpi: by default, no, it will still use the server's iceweasel
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| 16:08 | sweetpi: but you could configure it to use localapps, and then it would use the client's iceweasel.
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| 16:10 | <sweetpi> I see, wow I completely miss-understood how thin clients worked
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| 16:10 | <redbaritone> So, all apps are on the server, if running thin client, with no local apps. So when DO I need to update my image? When a new linux kernel comes out? When a security bug is found in ssh? What utilities are required in the thin client's nbd? Should I just run through the thin client boot process in the docs, and make a note of all the standard tools it uses to boot up?
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| 16:11 | <highvoltage> sweetpi: yeah local apps are awesome, it allows you to use some of your spare thin client resources to run some things from the nbd share
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| 16:15 | <alkisg> redbaritone: well, typically, when your distro sends you updates, you should also update the chroot, and if indeed there was something updated, then run ltsp-update-image.
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| 16:15 | <alkisg> But, if everything runs fine and you don't care much about having the latest security patches, you can also leave the chroot untouched for years
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| 16:15 | So basically it's your call..
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| 16:18 | <redbaritone> alkisg: So, it doesn't hurt to just update after security updates, etc.? How often do you typically update?
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| 16:20 | <alkisg> Me? Maybe once per month. Other teachers here? Never :)
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| 16:21 | No, updating doesn't hurt (unless some new kernel has problems with your hardware etc etc, not related to ltsp)
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| 16:21 | <redbaritone> So, would you advise to just put the script listed in <UbuntuLTSP/UpdatingChroot> on a monthly cron schedule? (Then run it occasionally ad hoc, too?)
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| 16:22 | <alkisg> How do you update your server? With cron? If so, sure, do the same with the chroot too.
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| 16:24 | <redbaritone> alkisg: Thanks. You've been a big help to me. Perhaps we should put an "Update Strategies" section in the LTSP manual.
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| 16:24 | :-)
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| 16:24 | <alkisg> It's no different from a typical server, so...
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| 16:24 | <redbaritone> I'm grokking this a little better now, thanks all!
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| 16:24 | <alkisg> Maybe you can find such a strategy in the ubuntu server manual
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| 16:25 | <vagrantc> a little different, in that you should use ltsp-chroot
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| 16:25 | <redbaritone> Good point! Hadn't thought of that!
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| 16:25 | <vagrantc> which sets environment variables to ensure daemons do not start and such
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| 16:25 | (from the chroot on the server)
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| 16:27 | <redbaritone> Is it more common to run Desktop on the server or the (duh) server version, and just use apt-get for everything?
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| 16:27 | I realize you don't need the monitor, but it would seem more "comforting" to use, for most people.
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| 16:28 | <alkisg> A GUI is needed on the server, so you can't just have the server version, you
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| 16:28 | <vagrantc> the default case is to run (essentially) everything on the server
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| 16:28 | <alkisg> 'd need to install a DE too
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| 16:28 | <redbaritone> DE?
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| 16:28 | <vagrantc> ah, but you don't necessarily need to actually have a desktop running on the server's console (many would say it's a waste of resources, really)
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| 16:28 | <alkisg> Desktop Environment. Anyway it's late here, goodnight all.
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| 19:29 | <joulez> I need to run alsamixer on the client any ideas? alsamixer: function snd_ctl_open failed for default: No such file or directory
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| 19:51 | <joulez> hello, I need to adjust the volume of the sound device on the client, but alsamixer and amixer wont work. any ideas? (the default volume is too low). thanks.
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| 20:16 | <johnny> joulez, read the docs on lts.conf
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| 20:16 | you should adjust the volume there
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| 20:16 | !ltsconf
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| 20:16 | <ltspbot`> johnny: Error: "ltsconf" is not a valid command.
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| 20:16 | <johnny> !lts.conf
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| 20:16 | <ltspbot`> johnny: "lts.conf" :: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
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| 20:18 | <joulez> http://www.pastie.org/1071988
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| 20:18 | I have it already.
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| 20:19 | but the volume is still too low.
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| 20:22 | are there any docs about running some apps locally?
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| 20:22 | !local
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| 20:22 | <ltspbot`> joulez: Error: "local" is not a valid command.
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| 20:34 | <johnny> plenty
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| 20:34 | !localapps
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| 20:34 | <ltspbot`> johnny: "localapps" :: to access a tutorial on setting up localapps on jaunty, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPLocalAppsJaunty
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| 20:35 | <johnny> then yu're gonna have to come back in about 10 hours when mre folks are about
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| 20:36 | <joulez> thanks
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| 21:46 | <nutron> I'm unclear if X_HORZSYNC and X_VERTREFRESH are still applicable to ltsp 5+, I've tried fixing some client monitor issues, and these don't seem to take effect.... actually maybe they do and I have some other kind of problem. hmmm
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| 21:50 | <jammcq> hey friends
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