IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 20 December 2008 (all times are UTC)
| 00:40 | <warren> there, that seems to be done.
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| 03:46 | <xtender> hi@all
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| 08:06 | <patrik> Hi, does the graphics card on the server make much difference for perfomance on the workstations?
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| 08:20 | <cyberorg> patrik, no
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| 08:21 | <patrik> ok, cool
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| 08:21 | <rjune_> !seen ogra
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| 08:21 | <ltspbot`> rjune_: ogra was last seen in #ltsp 1 day, 22 hours, 45 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <ogra> then have a look at /etc/X11/xorg.conf
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| 10:07 | <warren> pscheie: http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/ltsp/k12linux/f10/untested/
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| 10:25 | <EAG> how good/bad performance should I expect from playing flash movies in firefox really?
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| 10:25 | <warren> EAG: bad.
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| 10:25 | <johnny> potentially really bad on the clients
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| 10:25 | <EAG> I am measuring the bandwidth use in real time and it is around 30 MBit
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| 10:25 | <johnny> it's best to run as a local app
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| 10:25 | <EAG> is there anything I can do about it?
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| 10:25 | ok
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| 10:26 | :/
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| 10:26 | <johnny> don't blame us :)
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| 10:26 | <EAG> hehe
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| 10:26 | no I am not :)
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| 10:27 | I should run firefox as a local app then...
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| 10:29 | ehm, running apps locally are included somewhere in the documentation, right?
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| 10:29 | I cant seem to find it...
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| 10:31 | never mind, I found it on ubuntus wiki
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| 10:42 | <johnny> EAG, the version in jaunty will automatically generate localapps menus for you
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| 10:42 | atm it is manual
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| 10:42 | <EAG> okay
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| 10:43 | <alkisg> EAG: how many clients / is your network gigabit / how much CPU usage when you run flash?
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| 10:43 | <EAG> I found some wiki-pages about it. I will probably ask here if I run into trouble :)
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| 10:43 | <alkisg> (in other words, is the network bandwidth really your bottleneck?)
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| 10:43 | <EAG> alkisg: one client only :) but only 100 MBit (I need a better switch...)
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| 10:44 | but the network is not a bottleneck
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| 10:44 | <alkisg> So what is? CPU usage = 100%?
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| 10:44 | Or is it the graphics card?
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| 10:44 | <johnny> hell.. flash is that bad running locally almost
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| 10:46 | <EAG> I am running a flash-video now... cpu is at 60-80%
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| 10:46 | <alkisg> So you probably won't be able to support more than one client properly... :P
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| 10:46 | <EAG> hehe
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| 10:48 | I am using this thin client only to have a silent working environment
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| 10:48 | at home
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| 10:48 | so its only me using the "server" (which is a p4 2.4 Ghz 2 GB ram)
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| 10:49 | <alkisg> core 2 duo, or single core?
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| 10:49 | <EAG> single core
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| 10:49 | old one.. northwood I think
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| 10:49 | <alkisg> Oh, that's why you had that much CPU usage
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| 10:50 | And CPU usage on the client?
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| 10:51 | <EAG> that I must check...
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| 10:51 | whats best way to do that?
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| 10:52 | ctrl-alt-F1 and top?
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| 10:52 | <alkisg> I don't know about the best way, but I run a local xterm in the normal (:7) display
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| 10:52 | If you have localapps, run an xterm as a localapp
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| 10:53 | <EAG> ah yes, I havent got that up and running yet
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| 10:53 | <alkisg> I don't know if Ctrl+Alt+F1 will show the correct CPU usage, because the video won't be drawn in the screen if you switch to vt1...
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| 10:53 | *tty1...
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| 10:53 | <EAG> anyway, its a sempron 2100+ in the thin client
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| 10:54 | alkisg: yep, I was thinking the same
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| 10:54 | <alkisg> And the playback? is it smooth?
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| 10:55 | <EAG> nah it isnt good at all
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| 10:55 | <alkisg> which graphics card on the client?
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| 10:55 | <EAG> ati x1250
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| 10:56 | <alkisg> LDM_DIRECTX = true or false?
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| 10:56 | <EAG> hmm I removed that line from lts.conf I think
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| 10:57 | <alkisg> So false... it could be a cpu usage problem then
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| 10:57 | Decrypting 30 Mbps *and* drawing a non-accelerated video could be enough to torture your sempron...
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| 10:58 | <EAG> I will try and set it to true
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| 10:58 | :)
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| 11:11 | * alkisg wishes a simple RLE compression was used, and a very basic (=low cpu) enryption technique... | |
| 11:11 | <nubae> well one can turn encryption off
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| 11:12 | <alkisg> yep, but not RLE compression on :)
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| 11:13 | * nubae doesn't know what RLE stands for | |
| 11:13 | <alkisg> run time length encoding... very basic, e.g. "10 white pixels" instead of "white, white, white, white, white, white, ..."
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| 11:14 | Even a 300MHz CPU could be able to handle it
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| 11:15 | <nubae> ah
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| 11:16 | <EAG> alkisg: I think it got a bit better now
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| 11:16 | <alkisg> How much bandwidth now?
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| 11:16 | <EAG> the interface on the server is using 5-8 MBit
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| 11:16 | most of it should be to the thin client
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| 11:17 | <alkisg> !!! I thought it was 30 mbps with LDM_DIRECTX=false, it should be more now!!!
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| 11:17 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: Error: "!!" is not a valid command.
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| 11:17 | <alkisg> OK mr ltspbot, don't slap me
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| 11:17 | Anyway gotta go, good luck
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| 11:17 | <EAG> weird.. iptraf must be brokenthen
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| 11:17 | <alkisg> EAG: it is :)
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| 11:18 | <EAG> thx for the help :)
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| 11:18 | <alkisg> It doesn't count all the traffic, try iptop
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| 11:18 | <EAG> ok
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| 11:18 | <alkisg> sorry, iftop
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| 12:17 | <nubae> all empathy still needs is a skype plugin, then it would be heaven
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| 12:17 | stgraber: I've had no crashes at all
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| 12:33 | <johnny> nubae, doubt that will ever happen..
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| 12:34 | what is more likely.. is that google will do the same thing as skype..
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| 12:34 | via gtalk
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| 12:36 | <nubae> well, thats not really needed, empathy does that already
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| 12:37 | but there are skype only people
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| 12:37 | and it would be nice to communicate with them
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| 12:37 | <johnny> minus the part about calling real phone numbers
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| 12:37 | <nubae> even if its not voice choat
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| 12:37 | <johnny> that's the reason for skype's existance..
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| 12:37 | <nubae> yeah, current existence, seems a very flaky business model
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| 12:38 | <johnny> sounds like skype isn't making ebay any money
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| 12:38 | <nubae> did u see my screenshots of empathy?
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| 12:38 | <johnny> no
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| 12:38 | <nubae> http://www.nubae.com/telepathy-empathy-and-collaboration
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| 12:38 | <johnny> empathy is still useless for me anyways
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| 12:38 | it's too simple
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| 12:38 | <nubae> check it out, it has advanced a lot
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| 12:39 | and is really advancing in all the ways we want... its a good project to get involved with
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| 12:40 | been using it for a couple days now, and it hasn't crashed on me yet... pdigin used to crash repeatedly
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| 12:40 | <johnny> i have it right here
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| 12:40 | it supports very little xmpp features directly in the ui
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| 12:40 | <nubae> from PPA archive?
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| 12:40 | <johnny> does it have service discovery?
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| 12:40 | does it have ad-hoc commands (i might have missed that)
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| 12:40 | <nubae> not directly... through another app called soylent
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| 12:40 | <johnny> does it do private xml storage?
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| 12:41 | no.. tha'ts not service discovery at all
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| 12:41 | that's people discovery
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| 12:41 | <nubae> right now, its just a chat client, but it plays well with the desktop itself
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| 12:41 | <johnny> sure.. but it doesn't play well with my needs
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| 12:41 | as a server administrator or power user
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| 12:42 | <nubae> well, chat, video, file sending, audio
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| 12:42 | <johnny> there's no free video implementation anyways
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| 12:42 | <nubae> well, compared to what?
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| 12:42 | <johnny> or free audio
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| 12:42 | compared to gajim
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| 12:42 | <nubae> whatcha mean, course there is
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| 12:42 | <johnny> gajim will have jingle soon anyways
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| 12:42 | not on the server side
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| 12:42 | <nubae> empathy is not server side
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| 12:42 | ejabberd is
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| 12:42 | <johnny> no..
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| 12:42 | i mean
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| 12:43 | there is no free server side video/audio implementation of jingle
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| 12:43 | i know the asterisk implementation should be close..
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| 12:43 | <nubae> pretty sure ejabberd does video/audio too
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| 12:44 | <johnny> uhmm?
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| 12:44 | where?
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| 12:44 | i'd love to be enlightened
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| 12:45 | <nubae> well coccinella is supposed to use it
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| 12:45 | on the client side
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| 12:45 | and actually, so does empathy... it runs video/audio over xmpp
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| 12:45 | or are u saying jingle is not free?
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| 12:46 | <johnny> there is no free complete server side implementation
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| 12:46 | <nubae> I could be wrong of course, u seem more entrenched in this technology than I
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| 12:47 | <johnny> libjingle is free
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| 12:47 | to connect to a non free server
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| 12:47 | the spec is not complete tho
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| 12:47 | peter saint-andre is going to be finalizing it soon hopefully
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| 12:47 | <warren> Firefox is free, to connect to non-free servers.
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| 12:47 | <johnny> and free ones
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| 12:48 | sure.. but i don't expect those to be private
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| 12:48 | at least if i had my own jingle service, i could expect it to be relatively private
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| 12:49 | i expect the information i post to a website to obviously be known by the entire world
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| 12:49 | so.. even if the server isn't free.. the info still is
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| 12:49 | <nubae> how does the xo do video/audio conferencing?
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| 12:49 | just adhoc I take it from what u are saying
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| 12:53 | ejabberd does to video johnny, empathy uses that to connect
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| 12:53 | u don't need anything but ejabberd server side and empathy client side
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| 12:53 | <johnny> to connect to what?
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| 12:54 | oh.. that's the p2p part
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| 12:54 | that's the one thing i forget about
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| 12:54 | technically you don't even need the ejabberd server
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| 12:54 | <nubae> right using xmpp-local
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| 12:54 | but for scaling, it works well with ejabberd
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| 12:54 | its what the xos use
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| 12:55 | * johnny slaps forehead | |
| 12:55 | <johnny> duh.. p2p
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| 12:56 | altho the spec is still unfinalized
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| 12:56 | i think that is why gajim does not include their jingle branch
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| 12:56 | <nubae> well, it seems to be quite good...
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| 12:56 | <johnny> sure.. cuz both match :)
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| 12:56 | implementation wise
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| 12:57 | but. empathy still misses xml storage
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| 12:57 | private xml storage
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| 12:57 | and bookmarks
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| 12:57 | <nubae> well, u can help implement it
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| 12:57 | <johnny> empathy does things too local
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| 12:57 | <nubae> bookmark sharing? it does that
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| 12:58 | nah, very heavily dependend on ejabberd
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| 12:58 | have u installed from the PPA?
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| 13:13 | <johnny> nubae, i don't use ubuntu
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| 13:13 | <nubae> really?
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| 13:14 | since when?
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| 13:14 | <johnny> i use ubuntu with ltsp
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| 13:14 | at work
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| 13:14 | at my store
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| 13:14 | <nubae> right, so can't install empathy there?
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| 13:14 | <johnny> it's useless there
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| 13:14 | it's an internet cafe.. people aren't trying to work together :)
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| 13:14 | they are tryign to use the internet :)
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| 13:15 | <nubae> well, not u can install from source in gentoo I suppose
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| 13:16 | <johnny> no.. i use fedora on this laptop :)
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| 13:36 | warren, what's the best way for me to install empathy 2.25 and dependent packages on fedora10 ?
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| 13:36 | <warren> johnny: I have no idea, I've never used empathy
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| 13:37 | <johnny> well.. any related gnome 2.25 packages
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| 13:38 | without pulling in the entire stack
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| 13:38 | just the telepathy stuff
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| 13:40 | <warren> johnny: have you tried just building empathy .src.rpm on F10/
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| 13:40 | it might just work
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| 13:40 | <johnny> why should i have to do that?
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| 13:41 | <warren> because you're trying to use a newer package than what the distribution has?
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| 13:41 | <johnny> sure, but perhaps external repositories :) i'm just trying to find one..
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| 13:44 | <warren> looks like they tried to build 2.25.3 in F-11 but it failed
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| 13:44 | I'm trying a build of 2.25.3 against F-10 right now
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| 13:45 | <johnny> i'd prefer to use binary packages.. that's why i switched to a binary distro :)
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| 13:45 | on gentoo it's usually as easy as renaming the ebuild to a newer version and adjusting a line or two for deps..
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| 13:45 | <EAG> I have a pulseaudio-question...
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| 13:45 | I cant get the paddevchoser to connect to other pulseaudio-servers..
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| 13:46 | <johnny> i perhaps should go take care of car maintenance stuff
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| 13:46 | <warren> johnny: that's exactly what i did
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| 13:46 | <johnny> sure.. but i'm looking for an external repo where somebody else does the work
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| 13:46 | like that ppa :)
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| 13:46 | <warren> johnny: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=1012446
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| 13:46 | <EAG> is this somehting that needs to be entered manually in some config-file and then ltsp-update-image?
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| 13:46 | <johnny> pulseaudio doesn't enable networking on the server by default
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| 13:47 | except to ltsp clients that is
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| 13:47 | <warren> johnny: no idea if this build will succeed, but you can watch this URL
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| 13:47 | <johnny> different mechanism
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| 13:47 | <EAG> I know, but the servers are up n running... and I can connect to them from other "fat clients"
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| 13:47 | <johnny> it also needs deps warren
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| 13:47 | <EAG> so it seems to be related to the pulseaudio on the thinclient
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| 13:47 | <johnny> sure, it only connects to the ltsp server
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| 13:47 | <warren> johnny: ok... then that's more effort than I'm willing to expend
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| 13:48 | <johnny> you'd have ro run padevchooser
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| 13:48 | <warren> johnny: what deps need to be upgraded?
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| 13:48 | <johnny> warren, i didn't expect you to do it
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| 13:48 | <warren> that could be why it didn't succeed in building in F-11 yet
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| 13:48 | <johnny> i was looking for info on where such external repositories :)
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| 13:48 | might exist
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| 13:48 | something similiar to ppa? :)
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| 13:48 | hehe
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| 13:48 | <EAG> yes, I run it and I choose a different server, and then I try to connect again, and I still end up with the ltsp-server
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| 13:48 | thats the problem
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| 13:48 | <warren> I doubt anyone cares about this particular package
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| 13:49 | <johnny> the client's pulseaudio has hardcoded connection parameters
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| 13:49 | did you run padevchooser as a local app?
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| 13:49 | otherwise you're adjusting the wrong thing :)
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| 13:49 | unless you're confusing me..
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| 13:49 | <EAG> no, I guess I have to run it as a local app then
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| 13:50 | <johnny> the sound for regular apps should work out of the box
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| 13:50 | no changes required
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| 13:50 | <EAG> | |
| 13:50 | also
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| 13:50 | but I want to be able to control a different pulseaudio-server from the thin client :)
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| 13:51 | * warren goes to the drug dealer.. | |
| 13:51 | <johnny> aka pharmacist
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| 13:52 | the google says that nobody does :)
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| 13:52 | this makes me sad
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| 13:52 | fedora10 needs something like launchpad
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| 13:52 | err fedora in general
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| 13:53 | open of course..
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| 13:53 | i gotta get ready to take the car for an oil change
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| 13:53 | bbiab
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| 13:53 | <nubae> bah, the reason to change to using a current distro ;-)
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| 13:57 | <jhutchins> anybody able to help with local USB devices on ltsp5/debian e.5?
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| 14:06 | <EAG> there is no equivalent of ltsp-localapps for 8.04?
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| 14:34 | <johnny> no
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| 14:34 | it wasn't even complete then
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| 14:35 | plus pulseaudio in general was really bad in 8.04
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| 14:42 | <EAG> ok
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| 14:54 | <stgraber> EAG: /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples/ltsp-localapps
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| 14:55 | EAG: hmm, sorry I didn'tsee 8.04
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| 14:55 | that's for 8.10 and it'll be in /usr/bin in 9.04
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| 15:01 | <nubae> stgraber: did u see my screen shots, re:empathy?
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| 15:15 | <EAG> stgraber: yup I saw.. I think I will reinstall my server soon anyway, so it will be 8.10 running shortly :)
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| 15:27 | <warren> EAG: you might also want to try K12Linux. I made new install media for it yesterday with all updates. Everything is slightly newer than Ubuntu 8.10.
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| 15:27 | EAG: http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/ltsp/k12linux/f10/untested/ admittedly nobody reported back if these images work yet. I'm testing it now.
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| 15:28 | <EAG> warren: thx, I will try it
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| 15:28 | <warren> EAG: pulseaudio and localapps both enabled and working out of the box here
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| 15:28 | <EAG> sounds nice ;)
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| 15:28 | <warren> EAG: oh yeah, using our K12Linux Live, you can try booting the server *and* netboot thin clients entirely off of LiveUSB or LiveDVD
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| 15:29 | LiveUSB is recommended
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| 15:29 | EAG: so you can boot and test booting thin clients in ~10 minutes. If you want to install to hard drive, maybe 15 minutes total.
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| 15:30 | <EAG> nice :)
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| 15:30 | <warren> https://www.redhat.com/archives/k12linux-devel-list/2008-August/msg00006.html description of the earlier version
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| 15:30 | <EAG> I will definitely try it out
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| 15:30 | <warren> EAG: https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator/ Use this tool on either Linux or Windows to install the ISO image onto a USB stick and make it bootable.
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| 15:31 | you should have at least 2GB space on any USB stick to besafe
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| 15:31 | be safe
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| 15:31 | <EAG> ok
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| 15:33 | btw, is it possible to get sun rays to work with ltsp?
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| 15:34 | <nubae> sun rays? like solar power?
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| 15:34 | <EAG> no :)
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| 15:34 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Ray
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| 15:35 | <nubae> architecture looks unsupported
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| 15:35 | <EAG> ok :/
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