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00:08 | <johnny> i don't mean run autogen.sh in the tarball..
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00:08 | then again..
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00:08 | maybe i'm just too used to getting software out of version control :)
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00:09 | <johnny> vagrantc, wanna humor me and take a look at my packaging for ldm?
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00:10 | http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/ltsp.git;a=blob;f=x11-misc/ldm/ldm-9999.ebuild;h=5d271d59ada9e648eb35f077035f42a5ab48896a;hb=HEAD
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00:12 | <vagrantc> johnny: after i get this upload done, gladly. :)
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00:12 | <johnny> see.. i'm not in the complicated phase of actually distributing this thing yet
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00:12 | i can just laughat you for now :)
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00:13 | altho we never have to do uploads
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00:13 | at least not the way you do it
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00:13 | packaging in debian was alot more complicated
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00:13 | my first deb package EVER was ldm btw :)
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00:13 | for my ubuntu deployment
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00:16 | <vagrantc> debian packaging has been accused of being overly complicated, indeed.
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00:17 | <generic> helo ltspbot
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00:17 | any one works on ltsp clusters
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00:17 | ?
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00:17 | <vagrantc> although, when i say upload, about 70-90% of that just means testing it in virtualbox with several of the different possible modes
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00:19 | <johnny> vagrantc, can you tell warren how to add a thing for fedora @ltspbot
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00:20 | so i can paste it to people when he is not here
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00:28 | <vagrantc> johnny: "add a thing" ?
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00:28 | johnny: like ... learn FOO as BAR BAZ BAT syntax?
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00:29 | <johnny> i guess
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00:29 | <vagrantc> and then you say !FOO and it tells you all about FOO ?
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00:30 | <johnny> !debian
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00:30 | <ltspbot> johnny: "debian" is is a GNU/Linux based operating system that makes an excellent LTSP server. You can find it at http://www.debian.org. for information about LTSP on debian see http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP
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00:30 | <johnny> yes :)
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00:30 | yes.. we should make warren write something for that
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00:30 | i will too when i get something i want to tell people about
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00:31 | of which i am pretty close
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00:31 | <vagrantc> sure.
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00:33 | <generic> ltspbot
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00:33 | ?
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00:33 | what abt ltsp clusters
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00:34 | <vagrantc> generic: what do you want to know?
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00:34 | <generic> well i have 2 ltsp servers
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00:34 | <generic> i want if my 1 server goes down users can login from other
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00:35 | also my all home dir should me replicated
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00:35 | and when both are up should load balance each other
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00:35 | ?
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00:35 | any good howto?
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00:35 | <vagrantc> requires a fair amount of manual configuration...
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00:35 | <generic> sure but i need good howto
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00:35 | <vagrantc> not aware of any documentation
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00:36 | <generic> then
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00:36 | you did it or not?
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00:36 | <vagrantc> no, i haven't done it.
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00:37 | <generic> any guidence?
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00:37 | <vagrantc> but i'm aware of some of the things necessary to do so... it's a good deal of work.
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00:48 | <dberkholz> johnny: the ebuild looks fairly normal. what's the reason for the double testing of PV = 9999 near the top?
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00:49 | <johnny> you mean this?
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00:49 | [[ ${PV} == 9999.* ]] && EBZR_REVISION="${PV/9999./}"
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00:50 | uhmm.. copied from another ebuild, what it should do, is allow you to pull a specific revision by nameing your ebuild package-9999.revno
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00:51 | its just a nice hack until -vcs suffixes come into play
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00:52 | <dberkholz> johnny: the way i would do that would be to pass EBZR_REVISION into emerge from the environment
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00:52 | <johnny> i was just going by convention i found in a bunch of ebuilds
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00:53 | i' not married to it
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00:54 | i think the only ebuild that needs more work is ltsp-server
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00:54 | it does work, you justhave to handle a few things manually afterwords
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00:54 | like /var/lib/tftpboot
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00:54 | and setting up your tftp server
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00:54 | other than that, just testing the ltsp-build-client again..
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00:55 | i added a few more bits for openrc, testing them out before commiting
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00:55 | your RCS_WHITELIST stuff needed editing
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00:55 | and i need to remember to rm net.eth0
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00:55 | so i added that into the quickstart profile
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00:56 | commiting that soon hopefully
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00:56 | been doing real work stuff last few days
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00:56 | damn openfire :(
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00:56 | it's all openfire's fault
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00:56 | tried and tried and tried to get http binding to work
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00:57 | so.. went back to ejabberd, now all is well
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00:58 | <dberkholz> johnny: EAPI=1 should be the first noncomment line in an ebuild, because it tells portage how to read the rest of it
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00:58 | <johnny> ok.. i'll make a note of it
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00:58 | it works?
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00:58 | i ran repoman over it before iirc
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00:59 | <dberkholz> repoman might not check that yet
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00:59 | what's this supposed to do: 73 insinto /etc/xinetd.d/*
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00:59 | <johnny> uhmm? how is that not self explanatory?
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00:59 | <dberkholz> insinto, not doins
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01:00 | <johnny> look below
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01:00 | <dberkholz> what am i supposed to be seeing?
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01:00 | http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/ltsp.git;a=blob;f=net-misc/ltsp-server/ltsp-server-9999.ebuild;h=9fad662af4169c9a6a17b1c5e557fabde0d44b4d;hb=HEAD to make sure you're seeing what i am
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01:02 | <generic> vagrant ?
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01:02 | what are those
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01:03 | <johnny> oh you're right.. i broke it
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01:03 | somehow that line got deleted
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01:04 | <dberkholz> johnny: i think there's an xinetd use flag around for installing that stuff
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01:05 | <johnny> use flag?
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01:05 | gonna have to point me to what yo're talking about
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01:05 | <dberkholz> johnny: yeah. if use xinetd; then install xinetd files; fi
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01:06 | <johnny> they aren't optional
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01:06 | <dberkholz> there's some service only accessible with xinetd?
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01:06 | <johnny> ldminfod
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01:06 | nbdroot
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01:06 | d
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01:06 | nbdswapd
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01:06 | we don't necessarily need those other two
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01:06 | but we do need ldminfod
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01:07 | ubuntu/debian use openbsd-inetd
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01:07 | that package doesn't exist in gentoo
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01:07 | <dberkholz> mm. anyone explored the difference of making them standalone?
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01:07 | <johnny> not sure
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01:07 | ask them :)
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01:07 | but atm, it is non optional
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01:09 | <dberkholz> the startup costs could be high if they get called often
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01:09 | <johnny> ldminfo gets called when ldm starts up
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01:09 | so.. on login
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01:10 | nbdrootd and swapd, i think they get called once per boot, but i haven't really checked yet
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01:12 | it's a small problem tho..
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01:12 | the real problem is with applications :
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01:18 | <vagrantc> ldm 2.0.3 tagged, push(ing), tested, and uploaded to debian.
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01:20 | johnny: that URL is the entirety of your packaging?
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01:21 | <daduke> vagrantc: bringing back directx w/ local USB?
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01:21 | <dberkholz> cut off the url to proj/ltsp.git if you want to see the other packages besides ldm
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01:21 | <johnny> for ldm yes :)
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01:21 | <vagrantc> daduke: no, that was with the ltspfs upload two days ago. :)
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01:21 | <johnny> the ltsp-server or client is more interesting
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01:21 | <dberkholz> johnny: oh, for ldm i was thinking we probably want to hack client/server options into the autotools
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01:21 | <daduke> vagrantc: even better. thanks.
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01:22 | <dberkholz> johnny: er, ltspfs
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01:22 | * dberkholz smokes less crack | |
01:22 | <vagrantc> daduke: i have etch backports ready for ltspfs and ltsp, and ldm should be on the way shortly.
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01:22 | <johnny> dberkholz, only if it will go upstream..
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01:22 | otherwise you can do it
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01:22 | <daduke> vagrantc: splendid
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01:22 | <dberkholz> johnny: sounded fine with sbalneav when i talked to him about it a while ago
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01:23 | as long as the defaults don't change
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01:23 | <johnny> cool
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01:23 | well.. go ahead with that.. :)
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01:26 | ok.. ltsp-server ebuild fixed
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01:26 | i'm in constant break fix mode here
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01:26 | adjust my quickstart config, test it
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01:26 | adjust again, test again
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01:26 | i'm making it actually care about --arch now
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01:27 | then i'll rename the profile to ltsp.qs
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01:27 | <johnny> so the same profile will work with amd64 or x86
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01:28 | and will easy to add support for ppc too.. theoretically..
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01:29 | ok dudes.. i think i'm gonna head to bed, i'll get this arch stuff working sometime tomorrow and commit it
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01:29 | and do one more smoketest with the updated whitelist
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01:30 | then we'll have something that will only require manual setup of /var/lib/tftp
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01:31 | except editing the xinetd files to enable the services, and point tftp and dhcp to ltsp server
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01:31 | i'll try to find somebody with a spare machine to test for me
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01:31 | 2GB ram isn't enough for me
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01:32 | and i haven't figured out how to adjust 2.6.24's scheduler to actually perform decently underload
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01:32 | pehraps you can help me with that tomorrow
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01:32 | <dberkholz> johnny: you might want to try .25
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01:32 | johnny: referring to cpu or io?
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01:32 | <johnny> i'm guessing i/o
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01:32 | but i'm no expert
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01:32 | <dberkholz> change your io scheduler to cfq if it isn't already
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01:32 | <johnny> it is
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01:33 | <johnny> been, since i ck stopped doing his patches
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01:33 | and 2.6.23.. was ok enough
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01:33 | but 2.6.24.. BADNESS
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01:33 | it's bad in hardy betas too!
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01:33 | update-manager takes FOREVER
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01:33 | and that's just doing binary packages
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01:34 | i can't web browse at the same time on that machine
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01:34 | i'm going to upgrade to 2.6.25 when vbox drivers are available
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01:34 | it is a registered bug
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01:35 | should occur in the next release hopefully
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01:35 | since fedora is already using 2.6.25
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01:35 | for some version or another
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01:36 | if it doesn't.. i'll stop using virtualbox and find something else ...
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01:36 | but i can afford to wait a bit longer atm
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01:36 | anyways.. it's 2am
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01:36 | err 2:30
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01:36 | i'm going to try to go bed early tonight
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01:36 | check you guys tomorrow
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02:16 | <vagrantc> klausade, daduke: etch backports for ltsp, ltspfs and ldm updated.
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02:34 | <daduke> vagrantc: cool. gracias.
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02:40 | <vagrantc> the ldm backport is actually newer than what's in sid, at least for a few more minutes
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03:25 | <nantes_geek> have anyone pulseaudio running inside a ltsp 4.2 ?
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06:18 | <jammcq> hersonls: hey
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06:19 | <hersonls> jammcq: hey
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06:19 | jammcq: you like fisl9.0?
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06:20 | <jammcq> yes, I enjoyed it very much
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06:20 | i'm still traveling towards home
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06:20 | left POA yesterday
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06:22 | <hersonls> )
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06:22 | :)
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06:23 | i like very much, if my first forum
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06:24 | is *
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06:24 | <jammcq> that was my 6th forum
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06:26 | <hersonls> good
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06:26 | :)
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06:27 | i work in ltsp for slackware, but slackusers no help
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06:27 | I am sad with them
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06:28 | <jammcq> hmm
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06:30 | <hersonls> But I never quit, I'm Brazilian
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06:30 | :D
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08:14 | <Q-FUNK> nantes_geek: cou cou, me revoila!
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08:15 | <nantes_geek> re Q-FUNK
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08:15 | <Q-FUNK> :)
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08:15 | nantes_geek: so, any news?
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08:16 | <nantes_geek> i'm back to ltsp 4.2 and i try a ltsp5 with mandriva 2006 (because of the Xorg version )
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08:17 | the bug is going to be fixe into the mandriva cooker ... so i'have just to wait
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08:17 | <Q-FUNK> ah ok
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08:21 | <Q-FUNK> ogra: about that libDDC issue: when in June is 8.04.1 supposed to release?
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08:21 | <ogra> no idea, really
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08:22 | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule
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08:22 | July 3rd
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08:29 | <Q-FUNK> ah, so july it is.
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08:30 | <Q-FUNK> I suppose thta if Jordan releases his 2.9 driver in early june, we might have enough time to test this before the release?
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08:34 | <warren> Q-FUNK: so... bad news. Using the 12V @ 2A power supply, it is failing to boot the kernel immediately with "crc error" maybe 75% of the time. Sometimes it manages to get into memtest86+ where it shows intermittent errors at seemingly random memory addresses.
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08:34 | <ogra> i'm not sure there will be any new upstream version for X in hardy at all
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08:35 | <warren> Q-FUNK: the memory errors are never at the same location, but they are consistently 08000000, which is really strange.
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08:35 | <ogra> it falls under the normal SRU rpocess ... that doesnt cover new upstream
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08:35 | *process
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08:35 | <Q-FUNK> warren: so PSU issue, it seems. I know that the same 9v PSU we use are also sold as power for guitar pedals, though IIRC with reverse polarity.
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08:36 | ogra: right, so the only thing that could remotely be acceptable would be a 2.8.1 with only the libDDC added?
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08:36 | <ogra> well, either that or a properly tested patch to 2.8.0
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08:39 | <Q-FUNK> we cannot just patch. we need to regenerate all the autoconf stuff.
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08:40 | and just because of that, we'd end up with a diff that is bigger than the upstream tarball, which doesn't make sense.
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08:40 | just for the refreshed config.sub
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08:40 | <ogra> well, policy ...
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08:40 | convince bryce to break it and there you go
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08:40 | but i doubt he will do that
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08:40 | especially for an LTS
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08:41 | <Q-FUNK> the correct approach would be for you to reply to jordan and explain why a whole new major upstream would not be acceptable for hardy.1, but a small point release with just libDDC and a refreshed autotool might.
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08:41 | <ogra> why me ?
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08:41 | thas bryces job
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08:41 | i'm not involved in X deveopment or maintenance
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08:41 | <Q-FUNK> I cannot do it. it has to come from someone else who is concerned by this bug and who can explain the policy to him.
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08:42 | <ogra> and i would get rude answeing him
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08:42 | he has a pretty elite attitude here
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08:43 | "because of the shitty distros we have to roll releases"
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08:44 | its just arrogant to ignore that the distros are the delivery path for your software to the users
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08:45 | <ogra> (reading his comment the first time i was really upset ... i'm not the right person to answer there)
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08:46 | <Q-FUNK> ok
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08:50 | * warren hunts for another PSU... | |
08:51 | Gadi has joined #ltsp | |
08:53 | * warren found 9V 150mA | |
08:54 | <warren> I can't even find a suitable power supply online anywhere
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08:57 | <ogra> if you would have flipped polarity i would imagine te device to blow up
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08:59 | <warren> I didn't flip polarity
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09:00 | <Q-FUNK> well, there is a big zener diode there, but... it still wouldn't be a good diea
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09:00 | <warren> I tried a 16V @ 4.5A after talking to co-workers. They suggested that the higher A doesn't matter because that's maximum load, and the website says 9-16V.
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09:00 | Then I tried 12V @ 2A because it seemed closer.
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09:01 | both now are exhibiting huge memory corruption
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09:01 | I guess the segfaults I was seeing since the first time I booted it were memory corruption as well.
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09:02 | <daduke> warren: sorry to intrude, but what's your problem here exactly? I have a bit of a background in physics and EE..
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09:02 | <warren> http://www.artecgroup.com/thincan/models.html
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09:02 | <Q-FUNK> psu substitition, according to P = E * I
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09:02 | <warren> I got a DBE61
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09:02 | website says 9-16V @ 1.5A
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09:03 | <warren> I could only find a 16V @ 4.5 and 12V @ 2A
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09:03 | <Q-FUNK> we normally use 9v 1.5a
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09:04 | <ogra> my dbe60 says 9V/1.5A
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09:04 | <daduke> warren: and you tried with anything from 12..16V, getting mem errors.
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09:04 | <ogra> 16 and 12 seem qute high
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09:04 | <Q-FUNK> 12v 1a would be an ok substitute
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09:04 | the general idea is, the higher the voltage, the lower the current needed
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09:04 | <warren> "needed"
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09:05 | but doens't that current rated simply mean maximum?
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09:05 | (I might have got bad advice.)
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09:05 | <daduke> not necessarily - the 9..16 V range suggests that there's a step-down converter on board that regulates input to probably 5V.
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09:06 | depending on the circuitry, 'excess' voltage might just be converted to heat.
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09:06 | <warren> Hmm, the Linksys PSU is 12V @ 1A. I have an extra linksys somewhere here... I have to hunt for it.
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09:06 | P (voltage?) = E (???) * (current in units of amps?)
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09:07 | <ogra> didnt they send you a power supply with that thing ?
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09:07 | <warren> no
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09:07 | <ogra> gah
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09:08 | <warren> found my other linksys PSU
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09:08 | 12V @ 1A
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09:09 | running now
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09:09 | I hope I didn't cause permanent damage with the other PSU's
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09:10 | doing memtest86+ now
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09:12 | <daduke> vagrantc: good morning. who's the author of ldm? are you?
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09:13 | <ogra> daduke, inital ldm (python and C version) were written by me, sbalneav took over about a year ago and rewrote the C thing i had
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09:14 | since then it lives from patches mostly and doesnt really have a dedictaed maintainer but the ltsp-upstream team
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09:15 | <daduke> ogra: ok thanks. you're not aware of any DPMS efforts to turn off screens by any chance? I'm currently trying to figure out how to do that...
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09:15 | <warren> sigh. still memory errors.
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09:15 | Q-FUNK: are you sure this unit was error free when you sent it?
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09:15 | Q-FUNK: or do you think I destroyed it..
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09:15 | <ogra> daduke, xorg prob, i think vagrant added the possibility for X commandline options that can get handed over from the screen script
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09:16 | in a recent merge
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09:16 | <daduke> ogra: oh, I have to look into that then!
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09:17 | <ogra> i just heard though that the X dev team planned a completely new DPMS handling deeply integrated with *-power-manager for their next release
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09:18 | <daduke> ogra: we have the absurd situation that our thin clients need < 10 W, but their screens use > 50 W. I'd like to get rid of that during night/weekend
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09:19 | <ogra> well, a five line addition to configure-x.sh would suffice i think
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09:20 | or even doing it with X_OPTION_0
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09:20 | through lts.conf
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09:20 | <daduke> ogra: that's what I'm trying to figure out atm. I've already enhanced configure-x.sh for font paths and screen rotation. Unfortunately it seems that certain hardware does not support DPMS. vbetool might be needed in these cases
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09:21 | <ogra> really ?
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09:21 | did you try with X_OPTION_[00-12] ?
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09:22 | <daduke> ogra: http://www.shallowsky.com/linux/x-screen-blanking.html, near the bottom. Our hardware/X driver might be affected
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09:23 | <Q-FUNK> warren: worked just fine when I tested it
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09:23 | <ogra> daduke, ah
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09:23 | <warren> Q-FUNK: at first it was working, except random processes were segfaulting, I thought it was software bugs at first.
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09:24 | <ogra> daduke, should work from rc.local even i dont think vbetool needs a running screen, it writes to the basic
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09:24 | <Q-FUNK> warren: so which one is failing now? the A model?
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09:24 | <ogra> s/basic/basic bios/
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09:24 | <warren> Q-FUNK: the PXE boot one
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09:25 | Q-FUNK: I only used the 12V @ 2A PSU on the other one for a few seconds (long enough to find out that it doesn't like memtest86+ file format)
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09:28 | <daduke> ogra: and X_OPTION_* is for X command line options or xorg.conf options?
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09:28 | <ogra> xorg.conf
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09:29 | wnt help if you are forced to write to the vesa bios
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09:29 | <vagrantc> daduke: for commandline options, use X_ARGS in lts.conf
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09:30 | <ogra> vagrantc, in etch ?
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09:30 | thats pretty new, no ?
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09:30 | <daduke> ogra: I'm gonna try w/o vbetool first. With X_OPTION, how to I tell which section to put it in?
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09:30 | <vagrantc> ogra: just backported everything, and i think daduke is using backports
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09:30 | <daduke> ogra: I got the latest backports, about 6 hours old.
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09:31 | vagrantc: USB sticks and directx is working fine again btw
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09:31 | <vagrantc> ogra: got non-bzr versions for everything in unstable now :)
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09:31 | <ogra> daduke, it will put it into the Device section
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09:31 | vagrantc, non-bzr ?
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09:31 | <vagrantc> ogra: ! ~bzrDATESTRING
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09:32 | <ogra> ah, yay
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09:32 | <vagrantc> much easier on the eyes
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09:32 | ogra: how's your release going?
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09:32 | <daduke> ogra: I'm not sure that's gonna work then. In my xorg.conf I have it in "Monitor" and "Screen"
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09:45 | <warren> EE's in fedora are saying "Regardless, if you managed to toast it, they have a sadly inferior voltage regulator in there."
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09:46 | <ogra> vagrantc, looking ok, i havent heard of bad showstoppers yet
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09:46 | vagrantc, and there is always 8.04.1 :)
| |
09:46 | * ogra just got this intresting question: "apt mirror provision rpm to RHEL5 machines" | |
09:47 | <ogra> *can apt mirror
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09:47 | <vagrantc> heh
| |
09:47 | <ogra> well, RH has apt, no ?
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09:48 | <warren> apt for rpm works fairly well
| |
09:48 | unless you're doing multilib
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09:48 | <ogra> then apt-mirror might work as well, who knows :)
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09:48 | <warren> yum has its own intelligent mirror selection
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09:49 | <ogra> but that guy seems to use an ubuntu infrastucture and has just one RH machine it seems
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09:49 | <warren> it would be trivial to build and installe createrepo on ubuntu
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09:50 | it is just a python script
| |
09:50 | <ogra> sonds like a lacking area ... lets resign and found a company that provides inter distro tool development *G*
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09:50 | <vagrantc> ogra: i'm still a little confused about what to do next regarding limiting the architectures on debian ... i can't really find any good documentation about dropping support for architectures...
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09:50 | <ogra> adding [arch] to the Source line didnt help ?
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09:51 | <vagrantc> ogra: it's not a valid thing to put in there.
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09:51 | <ogra> i never had probs with that on Soyuz
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09:51 | <vagrantc> that would seem like a nice and simple way to restrict architectures, but it's just not supported for some reason.
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09:51 | oh, really?
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09:51 | <ogra> i usually just specify it in the Architecture line
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09:51 | but then we only have 6 arches here
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09:52 | <vagrantc> well, if it is valid, it's not documented.
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09:52 | <ogra> it doesnt attempt to build on arches that arent listed
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09:52 | mhterres has joined #ltsp | |
09:52 | <vagrantc> ogra: in the source or the package section?
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09:52 | maybe the debian buildd's are just stupid.
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09:53 | <ogra> 5.6.8 Architecture
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09:53 | Depending on context and the control file used, the Architecture field can include the following sets of values:
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09:53 | *
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09:53 | A unique single word identifying a Debian machine architecture, see Architecture specification strings, Section 11.1.
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09:53 | http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Architecture
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09:53 | <vagrantc> yes, but then when it describes where you can put it ...
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09:54 | <ogra> If a program needs to specify an architecture specification string in some place, it should select one of the strings provided by dpkg-architecture -L. The strings are in the format os-arch, though the OS part is sometimes elided, as when the OS is Linux.[69]
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09:54 | Architecture: i386 amd64 powerpc
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09:55 | <vagrantc> the magic trick i want to do is have all the server-side stuff available for all architectures, while the client-side stuff only for a limited set of architectures.
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09:55 | <ogra> that should work according to te doc
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09:55 | <warren> Q-FUNK: some of my people are suggesting that it is dangerous to suggest 9-16V on your website because too many power supplies will spike over 16V
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09:55 | <ogra> vagrantc, then mae ltsp-server/-standalone all ad the -client bits arch specific
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09:55 | *and
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09:56 | <vagrantc> ogra: yeah, i've been thinking of doing that.
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09:56 | <Q-FUNK> warren: this regulator can handle more. just that up to 16 is the safe range.
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09:56 | <vagrantc> ogra: it's in section 5.2 of debian-policy where it doesn't mention the architecture in anything but the binary package paragraphs...
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09:57 | <ogra> right
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09:57 | why should they mention it in source
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09:57 | <vagrantc> for the buildd's
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09:57 | <ogra> source is the same on all arches
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09:57 | build attempts should be according to the biary packages defined
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09:58 | *be done
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09:58 | if your arch isnt in the binary list, dont build it
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09:58 | <vagrantc> otavio: if you have a moment, i'd like a little more input on limiting the architectures for ltsp ... i tried it, but all the buildd's are still trying to build the package ... is that expected?
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09:58 | <ogra> thas definately work
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09:59 | gor your control file for paste ?
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09:59 | got
| |
09:59 | *thats definately wrong even
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10:00 | <otavio> vagrantc: where's the control to me take a look?
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10:01 | * vagrantc tries to paste it | |
10:02 | <warren> Q-FUNK: I put the unit in the freezer for a few minutes, then run memtest86+ again. 15 minutes with no errors now.
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10:02 | <Q-FUNK> freezer?!
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10:02 | <warren> bad idea? =)
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10:03 | <ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "debian/control for ltsp 5.1.3-1" (68 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/514
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10:03 | <vagrantc> otavio, ogra: ^^
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10:04 | <ogra> ltsp-client is wrong
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10:04 | <warren> Q-FUNK: the outside is slightly above room temperature now, 16 minutes with no errors
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10:04 | <ogra> vagrantc, it needs the same line as ltsp-client-core
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10:04 | <vagrantc> ogra: well, that still shouldn't trigger the buildd's
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10:04 | <ogra> for ltsp-client ? sure
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10:05 | it wont trigger then for -core only
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10:05 | <vagrantc> ogra: buildd's don't build arch: all packages.
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10:05 | <ogra> huh ?
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10:05 | indeed they do
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10:05 | <vagrantc> not debian buildd's
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10:05 | <ogra> on one buildd at least
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10:06 | <vagrantc> ogra: but yes, i'll probably drop arch: all from ltsp-client*
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10:06 | <otavio> vagrantc: it depends if they're or not available
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10:06 | <otavio> vagrantc: other... is "package [arch]" not "package[arch]"
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10:07 | <vagrantc> otavio: i don't understand ...
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10:07 | <warren> Q-FUNK: one memory error after 20 minutes =(
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10:07 | <vagrantc> otavio: oh, you mean for the syslinux [i386 amd64] ?
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10:08 | otavio: vs. mkelfimage[i386] ?
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10:08 | <Q-FUNK> warren: after 20 minutes running memtest+?
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10:08 | <warren> Q-FUNK: yes
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10:08 | Q-FUNK: just a single bit on one memory location
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10:08 | <warren> there goes another one
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10:08 | <otavio> vagrantc: yes
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10:08 | <Q-FUNK> hmm. not good.
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10:08 | <otavio> vagrantc: you need to request package removal from other architectures.
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10:08 | <warren> Q-FUNK: strangely all error bits are 08000000
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10:09 | <Q-FUNK> ?!
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10:09 | <warren> Q-FUNK: whatever it should have been plus 08000000
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10:09 | <vagrantc> otavio: and then make ltsp-client: Architecture: amd64 i386 powerpc (instead of all) ... and then i'll be able to have the server-side stuff on all arches, and the client-side stuff only on amd64 i386 powerpc ?
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10:10 | otavio: do you know if there's much documentation about requesting package removals? i haven't found much.
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10:11 | <otavio> vagrantc: i think it works. Do that
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10:12 | vagrantc: I can try to find it for you but the best is to talk at #debian-devel and ask for guidance.
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10:12 | <vagrantc> otavio: so i request removal of ltsp-client* from all architectures except amd64 i386 and powerpc ?
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10:12 | <otavio> vagrantc: people are willing to help most of time
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10:12 | vagrantc: yes
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10:12 | * vagrantc is scared of #debian-devel | |
10:12 | <ogra> heh
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10:12 | <vagrantc> it's one of those channels that has infinite scrolling
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10:12 | <Q-FUNK> #debian-devil ?
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10:12 | <ogra> come over to #ubuntu-devel, its warm and fuzzy
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10:13 | <vagrantc> it's mostly just the volume of information
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10:13 | <Q-FUNK> warren: is that the address reported by memtest+ or some value?
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10:13 | <ogra> hm, #ubuntu has only 1300 ppl today
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10:13 | thas not much a day before release
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10:14 | <Q-FUNK> warren: knowning exactly which info line in the memtest+ resulted reportted this could help us track it
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10:14 | * ogra goes to check #ubuntu-release-party | |
10:14 | <ogra> pfft only 130 users yet
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10:14 | <warren> Q-FUNK: it looks like random memory locations, but consistently the memory is corrupted by + 08000000
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10:14 | <johnny> i'm sure lots of people give up on #ubuntu
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10:14 | i know i do
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10:14 | or did
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10:15 | <warren> http://fakejonobacon.blogspot.com/ "I love the community. I am the Community Manager for Ubuntu, which is like Debian without the morals."
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10:15 | <ogra> johnny, i still do support from time to time o a bored sunday there
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10:15 | oooooh
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10:15 | <Q-FUNK> warren: as far as our guys can tell, the only thing that could cause this would be a bad solder on one of the chips' data line
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10:16 | <ogra> the bind/unbind feature of blockdevices in the kernel is COOL !
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10:16 | <warren> Q-FUNK: I love inconsistent consistent failures.
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10:17 | * ogra hugs whoever that added (gregkh likely) | |
10:17 | <warren> ogra: what exactly does that do?
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10:17 | <Q-FUNK> warren: that's the interesting part. constant offset
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10:17 | <ogra> warren, it behaves like unplugging/plugging a disk
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10:18 | warren, i had massive probs with getting the classmate installer re-read the partitions properly after fdisk
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10:18 | <warren> Q-FUNK: it began happening on this thincan only after ~20 minutes or so when it heated back up
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10:18 | Q-FUNK: 12V @ 1A power supply
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10:18 | <ogra> warren, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7858/ that solves it easily :)
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10:19 | <warren> ogra: The way fdisk behaves is poor, that's why we left it behind in Fedora
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10:19 | ogra: the alternatives have nice API's to drive with other interfaces anyway
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10:19 | <ogra> well, i didnt want to reinvent the whell for a scripted installer
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10:19 | *wheel
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10:19 | i could have taken parted but that seemed overkill
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10:19 | <warren> we've abandoned fdisk maybe 3-4 years ago
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10:20 | what are you using fdisk for?
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10:20 | <ogra> i have a fixed partition tabe and no user interaction ... just cat'ing a here document to fdisk is sufficient
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10:20 | it was just not re reading the new table
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10:22 | warren, its an installer for the classmate PC, pretty much everything hardcoded (same HW everywhere, wipe out install)
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10:23 | <warren> sfdisk has a really nice way of doing that
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10:23 | <vagrantc> ogra: sfdisk is nice
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10:23 | <ogra> likely, but i wont change the partitioning part a day before release :)
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10:23 | <warren> ogra: http://togami.com/~warren/guides/remoteraidcrazies/ look at how I use sfdisk here.
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10:24 | <daduke> ogra: patching the DPMS stuff into xorg.conf via configure-x.sh did the trick. thanks for your help
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10:25 | <warren> Q-FUNK: I'm trying to hack mkelfImage now to get it to wrap memtest86+ so I can run it on the other thincan
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10:26 | (mkelfImage is the right tool?)
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10:26 | <Q-FUNK> yes
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10:27 | well, you just need to use mkelfimage to consider memtest86+ as a kernel that needs to be processed into an elf image
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10:34 | artista_frustrad has joined #ltsp | |
10:36 | <warren> yeah, it doesn't recognize the memtest86+ as a kernel
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10:36 | memtest86+ is based on a linux 1.0-ish kernel
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10:38 | <ogra> daduke, trun it into a patch (with lts.conf option) ;)
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10:39 | <warren> Q-FUNK: if I ship the PXE unit back to you, will there be customs/duty problems?
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10:39 | mikkel has joined #ltsp | |
10:39 | <Q-FUNK> not if you mark it as an RMA in the declaration
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10:40 | as long as it's clear that it's being returned for repairs, it should be ok
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10:40 | <johnny> Q-FUNK, send me some :)
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10:40 | lol
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10:40 | <Q-FUNK> johnny: ? :)
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10:40 | <warren> at least the coreboot + etherboot unit was the important one for me to get working
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10:40 | <johnny> oh.. i'm just using desktops atm
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10:40 | <warren> this is my only coreboot + etherboot unit
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10:40 | <daduke> ogra: yeah, why not. but it's a rather ugly - I s/Section Monitor/Section Monitor\n\tOption "DPMS"/ the generated xorg.conf. I'm not sure that's ready for prime time...
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10:40 | <Q-FUNK> warren: yes, as long as bad american line voltage doesn't zap it! :-P
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10:41 | ogra: btw, whatever happened to sbalneav?
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10:41 | <daduke> ogra: it's the same way we use to include mathematica fonts and "Rotate" "CCW"
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10:41 | <ogra> Q-FUNK, busy i guess
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10:41 | <johnny> so i'm just begging :)
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10:42 | <warren> johnny: do you have limited access to grumpy X and kernel deveopers?
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10:42 | =)
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10:42 | <johnny> who doesn't? :)
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10:42 | <warren> I ride the bus with them. They can't ignore me on the bus ride.
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10:43 | <johnny> kick their asses
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10:43 | <ogra> lock them in your closet and breed more :)
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10:43 | <johnny> i think spawn is a better word for those types
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10:43 | jk :)
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10:43 | <ogra> that *must* work if you keep them in there long enough
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10:43 | <laga> fork()
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10:44 | <johnny> the ratio of male to female kernel developers is heavily weighed on the male side..
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10:46 | <ogra> johnny, they reproduce through binary osmosis ...
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10:46 | no wimen needed
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10:46 | <Q-FUNK> ogra: I would have been curious to hear from him, Gadi and you about how the bios upgrade went on the units with the old bios
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10:46 | <johnny> aha...
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10:46 | <Q-FUNK> ogra: does it work on humans too?
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10:47 | <ogra> binary osmisis ?
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10:48 | <Q-FUNK> yeah
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10:48 | <ogra> i have no idea what that is so it might ... :)
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10:48 | ...who knows ...
| |
10:48 | :)
| |
10:49 | wow the term actually exists just the other way round
| |
10:49 | Reverse Osmosis of Binary Organic Solute Mixtures in the Presence of Strong Solute-Membrane Affinity
| |
10:49 | now thats a sexy heading isnt it ?
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10:49 | <johnny> it's getting hot in here
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10:49 | <ogra> i which my job would foce me to invent such creative headings for my docs :)
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10:49 | <Q-FUNK> so take off...
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10:49 | <johnny> please.. keep all your clothes on..
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10:50 | Q-FUNK, where are you?
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10:50 | <Q-FUNK> up north. Eesti
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10:51 | <johnny> huh?
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10:51 | <Q-FUNK> erm.. tnhat thesis title doesn't compute. we need to break the strong membrane before organic mixes can occur.
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10:51 | http://www.welcometoestonia.com/
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10:51 | <johnny> oh...
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10:51 | duh
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10:51 | i wouldn't call that much more north
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10:51 | more like waaay east :)
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10:52 | i shoulda known that
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10:53 | <Q-FUNK> north and east :)
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10:53 | <johnny> much more east than north
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10:54 | * johnny fights css | |
10:54 | <Q-FUNK> we're higher than alaska, IIRC
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10:55 | <ogra> jamaika is higher :P
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10:55 | * johnny feels welcome in estonia | |
10:57 | <Q-FUNK> airee, mon
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10:58 | ogra: well, with all the happy pills circulating in this country and the illegitimate kids that result, I feel safe in stating that Jah is with is in Tallinn :)
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10:58 | <johnny> Q-FUNK, try not to take your cultural cues from this side of the world :)
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10:58 | <daduke> Baltic Tiger, roar!
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10:59 | <ogra> heh
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10:59 | * daduke is reading wikipedia... flat tax? | |
10:59 | <Q-FUNK> yup. flat tax.
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11:00 | the most brlilliant invention ever.
| |
11:00 | <ogra> you mean like ... nothing ?
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11:00 | <Q-FUNK> no complicated calculation to figure out how much you'll owe the taxman, even if your salary varies.
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11:00 | <ogra> zero ?
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11:00 | <daduke> they're discussing it in parts of .ch too...
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11:00 | <Q-FUNK> no, as in fixed percentage.
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11:00 | <ogra> or a fixed value
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11:01 | ah
| |
11:01 | cool
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11:01 | <Q-FUNK> currently 21%
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11:01 | they're dropping one percent per year. they intend on stopping in 2010, when it will stabilize at 18%.
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11:01 | <daduke> internet access for free??? come on..
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11:02 | <wwx> so? normal there
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11:02 | <Q-FUNK> daduke: yup. free wifi pretty much everywhere, including gas stations
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11:02 | * daduke considers changing his travel plans.. | |
11:02 | <ogra> daduke, its EU :) you can live there if you want
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11:03 | <wwx> in libraries there are public access internet ... just computers, which can be used by everyone
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11:03 | <Q-FUNK> it always puzzles people, why in gas stations, but the explanation is simple: truckers need to access their bank account and government services while on the road too.
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11:03 | <daduke> ogra: I know. but no Euro yet?
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11:03 | <ogra> i thought they recently switched ?
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11:03 | Q-FUNK, ?
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11:03 | didnt you
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11:03 | <johnny> so, who wants to find a reason to pay me to come to estonia..
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11:03 | <Q-FUNK> accession to the euro is subject to separate criteria
| |
11:04 | ogra: slovenia did. lithuanian almost qualified too.
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11:04 | <ogra> oh, i thought estonia was in the chunk with poland and romania
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11:04 | <wwx> :)
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11:04 | <ogra> so i thought lithuania was too
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11:04 | <Q-FUNK> 9 9 9
| |
11:05 | only one of the 2004 countries managed to control their inflation enough to qualify: slovenia. lithuania missed the mark by only 0.1%. others had either too much inflation or not fully recovered from their soviet chaos.
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11:06 | <daduke> 1.3M ppl? cute, even .ch's gotten more..
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11:07 | <Q-FUNK> curent discussions for transition to the euro place the baltic countries and czekia as the next ones, for 2010, IIRC
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11:08 | ah, hungary too
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11:08 | <ogra> well, thats not to far
| |
11:08 | <Q-FUNK> the main two criteria are strong economy with low inflation
| |
11:09 | still, I love this place so much that I'm wrapping things up in fucking finland before the end of this month and bringing the rest of my stuff here.
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11:11 | grmbl. seems I shot myself in the foot by insisting that Hardy should ship with geode 2.8.0 instead of amd 2.7.7.7
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11:12 | <Q-FUNK> ogra: I know that vorlon will kill me, but is there any way that we can revert that AND use my 2.7.7.8 with the libDDC patch instead?
| |
11:12 | or how do you propose that we solve this?
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11:14 | wwx: thank goodness, they don't have to place livonia on the map :-P
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11:19 | <weiss__> hi
| |
11:19 | anyone familiar with DiskOnChip technology?
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11:19 | <Q-FUNK> a bit
| |
11:20 | <weiss__> im trying to grasp how the whole thing works...i understand it installs a bios extension
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11:20 | <Q-FUNK> we have that in one of our legacy products
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11:20 | <weiss__> and that its supposed to emulate a harddrive
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11:20 | im wondering if the emulation is done by patching the bios, or at the driver level
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11:20 | i've seen that Linux and other OSes have drivers for it, but on the other hand
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11:20 | according to documentation, DOS supports it natively
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11:20 | so im confused
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11:20 | <Q-FUNK> driver level
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11:20 | IIRC
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11:21 | <weiss__> IIRC?
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11:21 | <Q-FUNK> weiss__: what's the hardware?
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11:21 | <weiss__> Q-FUNK, Single Board Computer (x86), altho im trying to get a general understanding
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11:22 | <Q-FUNK> some Geode variant?
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11:22 | <ogra> the classmate PC i got here uses such devices, they appear like a normal (USB) disk to the kernel here
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11:22 | <weiss__> Q-FUNK, no some embedded product
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11:22 | <Q-FUNK> namely, which one?
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11:23 | <weiss__> Q-FUNK, something propietary used in an assembly line
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11:23 | Skarmeth has joined #ltsp | |
11:23 | <Q-FUNK> weiss__: so what prompted you to ask LTSP people about this, then?
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11:24 | <weiss__> Q-FUNK, I couldn't find anyone who knows anything about it ;)
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11:24 | <warren> Q-FUNK: what is the best address to ship it back to?
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11:25 | <weiss__> okay, driver then...
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11:26 | <wwx> weiss__, you can try to find something on sandisk website, sandisk acquired m-systems couple of years ago and year ago or so some doc-s was there
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11:26 | <weiss__> i've read that it has a 8k window in memory, that must be where the 'flash pointer' is pointing at...how would you switch to another flash address? I/O ports?
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11:26 | <Q-FUNK> wwx: oh, they did?
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11:26 | * weiss__ attempts to rtfm | |
11:26 | <Q-FUNK> that would explain the crappy quality of sandisk USB sticks :)
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11:27 | <weiss__> heh
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11:31 | <wwx> Q-FUNK, yes. and this attitude sucks... nothing was left aside press release, no docs anymore :-(
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11:31 | http://www.sandisk.com/Corporate/PressRoom/PressReleases/PressRelease.aspx?ID=3494
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11:32 | <Q-FUNK> wwx: so they bought the technology and then it disappeared?
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11:32 | <wwx> diskonchip tech is considered obsolete, yes
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11:32 | <Q-FUNK> that too
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11:34 | <wwx> weiss__, you can google for some tools, which can handle those DoC-s... they have special tools for this (under DOS mostly)
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11:36 | <weiss__> wwx, yes i've seen them
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11:36 | <wwx> but generally DoC is flash with little internal cpu + firmware. for outside world this looks like ordinary disk, you can even partition it with fdisk and such
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11:36 | <weiss__> wwx, no, as you guys said, to the outer world *who has a driver* it looks like a regular disk
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11:36 | quite different
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11:37 | im wondering if its interface is documented enough so you could patch Bochs to emulate it
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11:38 | <wwx> afaik DoC doesn't require any drivers, only when internal repartitioning required (bad block map and such). Under DOS those worked without drivers
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11:38 | <weiss__> oh
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11:38 | so why does linux needs a driver?
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11:39 | i've seen articles that explains how to boot linux from DiskOnChip, if it emulates a disk, why is that worth mentioning?
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11:39 | <wwx> but i don't know very much, i've seen one industrial system with DoC... and since Dos works entirely on BIOS calls (int 13), then maybe bios contains some special stuff
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11:45 | <wwx> ehh...
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11:45 | The DiskOnChip has built-in firmware that is visible in the CPU
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11:45 | address range, reserved for BIOS expansions. Being executed by the
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11:45 | BIOS, the DiskOnChip firmware installs itself at INT 13h (BIOS disk
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11:45 | services), thus providing full read/write emulation of a hard disk.
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11:46 | <ogra> right
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11:46 | so you should just see a HDD
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11:46 | (SDD to be precise :) )
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11:46 | <wwx> yes... but only under such os, which lives on int 13
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11:47 | <weiss__> ah, i see
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11:48 | wwx, thanks ;)
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12:13 | <Q-FUNK> daduke: see, I'm now sitting in one of Tallinn's many designer bar/cocktail lounge/restaurants. wifi comes as a byproduct of sitting here.
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12:19 | <ogra> they serve designers in your bars ? *shudder*
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12:20 | <Q-FUNK> hehe
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12:21 | well, many places here won prizes for their design
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12:21 | pretty cool interior design
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12:22 | <laga> who gave out the prizes? designer bars/cocktail lounges/restaurants? ;)
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12:22 | <Q-FUNK> some were rpized by some british design magazines
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12:22 | e.g. Wallpaper*
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12:59 | <lns> Q-FUNK, so are you installing ltsp in these award winning bars? =)
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13:00 | <Q-FUNK> lns: what for? everyone has laptops here
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13:01 | <lns> Q-FUNK, maybe for those who don't have laptops? hmmm... like at the corner of the bar where normally you'd have a little tabletop videogame or something
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13:01 | <Q-FUNK> they don't have those here
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13:01 | they have snooker tables and mabe one videopoker
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13:01 | <lns> there ya go
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13:01 | tabletop ltsp ;)
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13:02 | with LAN-based frozen-bubble (if that worked well in ltsp)
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13:02 | <wwx> ltsp is a bit... overengineered. but this is only my humble opinion
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13:02 | <lns> wwx, ?
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13:03 | <wwx> local apps for example
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13:03 | <lns> wwx, do you mean local apps shouldn't be a part of ltsp?
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13:03 | i'm not following
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13:04 | <wwx> yes. generally those terminals are low end computers with low memory and weak cpu
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13:04 | <laga> i guess LTSP isn't needed if you only have one client ;)
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13:04 | <vagrantc> wwx: less and less the case with each passing day.
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13:05 | wwx: even slow computers are getting to be remarkably fast.
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13:05 | <lns> wwx, i think the good thing about local apps is that it's there if you WANT it...of course not required
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13:05 | yet very useful for things like firefox (maybe that'll change w/ff3)
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13:05 | <vagrantc> local apps isn't in ltsp5 at all, really. it's all manual configuration.
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13:06 | <lns> vagrantc, the truth comes out! =p
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13:06 | do-it-yourself-ware ;)
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13:06 | <wwx> lns, agreed. but i don't think any old pc or terminal can run firefox at usable speed
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13:07 | as i said, this is only my humble (and nothing more) opinion
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13:07 | <lns> wwx, i'm sure there are installations out there that use higher-end terminals than you're thinking
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13:07 | <loather-work> my terminals have a 250MHz CPU and 128M RAM.
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13:07 | <wwx> lns, of course it is
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13:07 | <loather-work> Firefox would eat it alive and be begging for more.
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13:07 | <vagrantc> it's not uncommon to have lots of "old" 1GHz, 256MB ram machines in some places.
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13:08 | <johnny> that's my machines
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13:08 | for the most part
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13:08 | <Gadi> sounds like over-engineered for some, under-engineered for others :)
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13:08 | <lns> Gadi, ;)
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13:08 | <wwx> Gadi, :-) yes
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13:08 | <vagrantc> basically, ltsp is just a framework for a wide variety of needs.
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13:09 | <Gadi> wwx - it would prolly be more 'over-engineered' if ur low-end clients didnt work out of the box
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13:09 | but, they do
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13:09 | :)
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13:09 | <wwx> second thing i don't like very much is ltspfs need for some specific display manager. don't know how this now, but year ago it need something ltsp specific
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13:10 | <vagrantc> and was totally insecure
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13:10 | now it's slightly secure :)
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13:10 | <wwx> yes, maybe
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13:11 | <Gadi> personally, I dont like the fact that it isnt tunneled - something I intend to correct before hackfest Portland :)
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13:12 | <lns> since we're all bullsh*tting here lemme ask a quick q (IANAP) - why the need for LDM ? Why isn't GDM suitable for ltsp, or at least working on GDM to make it more LTSP featureful ?
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13:12 | * Gadi intends to bring LTSP into a unified client/server architecture kicking and screaming | |
13:12 | <Gadi> :)
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13:12 | <loather-work> integrate it with NX
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13:12 | <Gadi> pheh! NX
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13:12 | <vagrantc> lns: GDM just doesn't have hooks to do anything it wasn't designed for.
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13:13 | <wwx> yep, ldm was it called. i don't remember even name :-)
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13:13 | <vagrantc> lns: there's been talk about adding the features to *DM, but for now we need something that works.
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13:13 | <lns> vagrantc, gotcha
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13:13 | <loather-work> GDM is really only useful for local machine logins. The fact it has XDMCP support at all seems like an afterthought.
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13:13 | <lns> hopefully it'd be easy to port those features
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13:14 | <vagrantc> lns: this is one of those classic cases where sometimes it's easy enough to just re-implement the wheel when you need some particular feature ... not ideal in the long run, but you need to figure out what you actually want before trying to nudge a larger project in your direction.
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13:14 | <lns> loather-work, i disagree - I use VNC tunnelled over SSH for my clients, it seems plenty nice for remote - even gives you a little 'disconnect' option in the lower-left when you're remotely connected
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13:14 | vagrantc, that makes sense, as long as it's easy to port the work to the larger project when you're comfortable with it
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13:16 | loather-work, meaning gdm/vnc/ssh
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13:16 | <vagrantc> lns: well, it's probably a huge task to add these features... so it's not really even a matter of portability. it's just going to be a lot of work.
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13:17 | <lns> vagrantc, is it that the two projects are coded so differently that makes it a lot of work?
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13:17 | as in, non-modular, type thing?
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13:19 | <vagrantc> lns: without having looked at the code for GDM, i would wager a guess to say that LDM is just a much smaller, simpler project. so i don't think there's anything specific about LDM that will make it hard to port the features to GDM ... it's just that it will be a lot of work to add those features to GDM weather LDM even ever existed. LDM is almost irrelevent at that point.
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13:19 | what LDM is useful for, is giving a playground to figure out what we actually want.
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13:19 | the code doesn't really matter.
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13:20 | well, it matters in that it works right now :)
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13:21 | <lns> =)
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13:21 | I like it a lot, it 'just works' for me so.. =) was just curious
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13:21 | <loather-work> i rather like the idea of LDM
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13:22 | <lns> just the couple little things that i'm pretty sure are fixed now, like the whole 3-password-attempt thing
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13:22 | <wwx> wondering how ldm looks from end user side view
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13:22 | <loather-work> the python one was slow and overall pretty miserable, but from what i hear the C one is much, much better
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13:22 | <vagrantc> now it just fails if the first password is wrong.
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13:22 | <lns> vagrantc, awesome
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13:22 | <vagrantc> wwx: many users don't even know it's not GDM ...
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13:23 | <lns> vagrantc, most users don't know what a 'display manager' even is ;)
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13:23 | <loather-work> my users don't even know what GDM is, and truthfully don't even care.
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13:23 | <lns> but yeah
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13:23 | <wwx> i used kdm since
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13:23 | <loather-work> all they care about is if it gets them from point A to point B, which it does (well, I might add)
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13:24 | <Q-FUNK> I use s&m instead
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13:24 | <lns> Q-FUNK, is that a new package for Hardy? =p
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13:24 | <Q-FUNK> oh, a very hard package indeed
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13:25 | <lns> gross
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13:25 | =p
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13:25 | <wwx> ldm based on python?
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13:26 | <loather-work> the old one was
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13:26 | it's C now.
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13:49 | <johnny> so, what will it take to get my changes merged into upstream ?
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13:50 | gentoo changes that is
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13:50 | it's not 100% done, but it's close enough for a dedicated tester to work with now
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13:51 | <johnny> my time is going to bit a bit lesser in the coming weeks
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13:51 | as i'm trying to find a job
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13:51 | that is more regular than this contracting i'm doing
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14:01 | <vagrantc> johnny: publish bzr branches somewhere and ask for them to be merged
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14:02 | johnny: dberkholz should be able to merge them if you'd rather have internal peer review, and dberkholz might also be able to give you commit access.
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14:32 | <laga> ogra: for example, i'd like to write a proper /etc/resolv.conf.
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14:32 | it's very easy to do that inside the initramfs because i can still access the ipconfig output
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14:32 | <ogra> thats tricky since there are so many apps mucking about with it
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14:32 | you have the ipconfig data later as well
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14:33 | <laga> ogra: hardy has a new "resolvconf" tool, i think
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14:33 | <ogra> no
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14:33 | hardy uses NM
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14:33 | <laga> ogra: yes, but i also need to know which device is the correct one.
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14:33 | <ogra> it knows that from hal
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14:33 | <laga> ogra: we're not gonna use NM on a diskless client i hope?!
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14:34 | <ogra> not on a thin cliet, no
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14:34 | <laga> good :)
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14:34 | <ogra> but with a full desktop installed you might
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14:34 | <laga> ogra: there is a utility called "resolvconf" which will manage /etc/resolv.conf
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14:34 | <ogra> and there are plenty of attempts going on for fat clients atm
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14:34 | laga, and i wont add any universe stuff
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14:35 | at least not as a default dep
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14:35 | <laga> resolvconf is in universe?
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14:35 | let's see
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14:35 | <ogra> resolvconf is the suck
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14:35 | <laga> i assumed it was some kind of default. it's so braindead i had to disable it
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14:35 | <laga> agreed, but it showed up on my kubuntu box
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14:35 | <ogra> its in universe since 2 years or so
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14:35 | <laga> ok. then i'll be quiet.
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14:36 | ogra: re fat clients: is there any point in having NM there?
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14:36 | <ogra> not sure
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14:36 | <laga> i've disabled NM on mythbuntu clients
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14:36 | <ogra> i would do that too
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14:36 | <johnny> next networkmanager will be configurable at the system level
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14:36 | should be pretty awesome
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14:36 | <ogra> but if someone has i.e. a wired and wlan card he migh want it
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14:37 | johnny, its pretty cool we had a 0.7 version in ubuntu for a while
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14:37 | <laga> ogra: i guess you can build a hal rule during initramfs which will ignore the network device used to bring up the system
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14:37 | <ogra> yeah
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14:37 | <johnny> it's still being worked on..
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14:38 | <ogra> right, thats why we ship 0.6 in ubuntu
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14:38 | <laga> ogra: should be very easy to do. but again, it's in initramfs and you probably dont like it :)
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14:38 | <ogra> sadly
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14:38 | <ogra> laga, whats the prob letting the usual etc/init.d/networking stuff care ?
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14:39 | <laga> ogra: what do you mean?
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14:39 | <ogra> make sure it uses dhclient and let it do its stuff on its own instead of hardcoding a file from initramfs
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14:40 | <laga> ah.
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14:40 | <ogra> i.e. properly integrate instead of "hack around the prob"
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14:40 | <laga> ogra: i'm assuming we do not ever want anything to touch the device used to bring up the system (let's say 'eth0').
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14:41 | <laga> do you suggest to add an entry to /etc/network/interfaces for eth0 to prevent NM from touching it?
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14:41 | <ogra> something like that
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14:42 | <laga> sounds sensible.
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14:42 | i wish there was support for a conf.d dir for interfaces
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14:43 | conf.d >> silly sed/grep magic.
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14:43 | <ogra> there is if-up.d and if-down.d
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14:43 | <laga> ogra: yes, but you can't define interfaces in there directories
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14:43 | <vagrantc> laga: netconf will happen... someday
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14:43 | <ogra> vagrantc, i doubt ubuntu will see that (probably on -server though)
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14:44 | by te time that will happen, we will be 100% NM
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14:44 | <vagrantc> ogra: well, you'll see it ... it'll just probably hang out in universe
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14:44 | ogra: is there a NM console/text interface ?
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14:44 | <ogra> and i case N works on a system level it will be another hal rule to do what you want in the end
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14:45 | *NM
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14:45 | <laga> ogra: what about my code to use different file systems for the copy-up branch in unionfs? the default is still tmpfs
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14:45 | <ogra> vagrantc, CK yes, NM not yet
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14:45 | <johnny> vagrantc, there will be :)
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14:45 | <ogra> laga, patches accepted :)
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14:45 | <johnny> as .7 becomes finalized
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14:45 | <ogra> laga, take a deep look at casper for that
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14:46 | it has all such special caes covered
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14:47 | <laga> ogra: i need to move out some functionality out first. i guess they don't support wake on lan or $HOSTNAMEOVERRIDE ;)
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14:47 | * vagrantc waves to jammcq | |
14:47 | <jammcq> boa tarde all
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14:47 | <ogra> hey jammcq
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14:47 | <laga> hey jammcq
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14:47 | <jammcq> hey guys
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14:48 | ogra: hey, next year, FISL-10.0 will be in June, instead of April, so you won't have the release schedule conflict
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14:48 | <Bengoa> boa tarde :-D
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14:48 | <ogra> jammcq, yay
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14:48 | <jammcq> so we should have a hackfest, brazilian style
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14:48 | <ogra> jammcq, i bet i would have been allowed to go if i wanted even this time ... but i had to much on my plate
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14:48 | <jammcq> there's talk of wanting a LTSP workshop also
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14:48 | <vagrantc> jammcq: like, while doing capoera?
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14:48 | <ogra> edubuntu keeps me less busy now
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14:48 | <laga> ogra: i'll get myself an upstream checkout and play a bit with it
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14:49 | <ogra> laga, great :)
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14:49 | <jammcq> capoera ?
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14:49 | <ogra> vagrantc, rather caipirinha
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14:49 | <vagrantc> jammcq: that dance/martial art
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14:49 | jammcq: very brazillian
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14:49 | <jammcq> hmm, cool.
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14:49 | <ogra> and then churrasca
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14:49 | <laga> i think i remember that from tekken. ;)
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14:49 | <jammcq> Bengoa: is that what they do at ctg-35 ?
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14:49 | * vagrantc would hold out on the currasca | |
14:50 | <ogra> all good brazilian things start wizh c
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14:50 | <ogra> vagrantc, soy churrasca for you then :)
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14:50 | <Bengoa> no, what they does at ctg-35 is a gaucho dancing
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14:50 | <jammcq> ah
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14:51 | <vagrantc> yeah, that's a good deal different :)
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14:51 | <Bengoa> capoeira is baiano things
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14:52 | <vagrantc> and then there's brazillian jiu-jutsu...
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14:52 | i've gotta go back to brazil someday.
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14:52 | <jammcq> vagrantc: june, 2009
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14:52 | <Bengoa> yes, fisl10
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14:52 | or fislX
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14:52 | <ogra> finally a good date
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14:52 | <jammcq> fisl-dec
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14:52 | <Bengoa> oh, a new variant
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14:53 | <ogra> i bet i can get some more ubuntu people to attent on such a date
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14:54 | wow, #ubuntu-release-party nearly hits the 200 ppl mark already
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14:54 | <jammcq> ogra: is tomorrow the day?
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14:55 | <ogra> yup
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14:55 | <jammcq> awesome
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14:55 | <ogra> looks all good so far
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15:29 | <johnny> dberkholz, my script is broken now
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15:29 | coreutils & mktemp
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15:29 | so.. while we wait for a new beta to roll
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15:30 | can you think about merging my codez?
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15:30 | <dberkholz> johnny: sure. i've just been waiting on you to tell me stuff is ready for me to test
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15:30 | johnny: should your repo work for me now?
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15:31 | <johnny> i just said it won't work :)
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15:31 | cuz of coreutils/mkstemp
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16:55 | <cliebow> 8.04 tomorrow?
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16:56 | <ogra> looks like
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16:57 | <laga> ogra: ltsp-build-client --copy-sourceslist - is that going to use the sources.list for debootstrap?
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16:57 | <ogra> no, afterwards
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16:57 | at apt configuring stage
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16:57 | <laga> ah.
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16:58 | <ogra> debootstrap doesnt use a sources.lis at all iirc
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16:58 | *sources.list
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16:58 | <laga> yup
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16:58 | <ogra> and doesnt create one either
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17:05 | <laga> ogra: is it possible to use a ubuntu alt disk to generate the squashfs after install? i assume you need to bind mount /cdrom inside the chroot
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17:11 | <ogra> the suqshfs is generated from an installed system
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17:11 | <laga> ogra: sure. but can you use the debs to create the chroot?
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17:11 | <ogra> indeed
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17:12 | sudo mount /cdrom && sdo ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom
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17:12 | s/sdo/sudo/
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17:12 | <laga> and that'll also show up in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list?
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17:15 | i guess i have to bind mount /cdrom to /opt/ltsp/i386/cdrom
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17:17 | <ogra> if yu use --copy-sourceslist it wont
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17:17 | no, you dont have to bind mount anything
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17:20 | <laga> oh.
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17:20 | i'm in love then
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19:19 | <PMantis> Hi guys
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19:45 | <rrittenhouse> Is there any way when using the rom-o-matic images to specify a specific dhcp server so the clients can boot from it. The problem is, is that we have two dhcp servers on the same segment (one for ltsp and the main windows dhcp)
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19:49 | <shogunx> hey guys... what the deal with the squashfs image built by gutsy's ltsp-build-client? is that the filesystem the term gets?
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21:09 | <warren> yuck
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21:09 | hmm
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21:09 | vagrantc: If you use mkelfimage you MUST embed your BOOTPROMPT_OPTS within the image, it can't be given by the server like PXE?
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21:10 | This seems like terrible lose.
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21:11 | If this is so, then I can't rely on the "tools never edit the boot options"
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21:11 | or..
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21:11 | decouple non-PXE from PXE options
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21:11 | which is confusing
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21:19 | <vagrantc> warren: you *might* be able to supply some of those options through dhcp
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21:20 | warren: but overall, yes. the options need to be specified in BOOTPROMPT_OPTS
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21:20 | warren: that's why i do it all client-side rather than server-side.
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21:23 | <warren> vagrantc: what cases are impossible if you do it all server-side instead of client side?
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21:23 | <vagrantc> warren: makes cross-architecture very difficult.
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21:24 | which, i guess isn't a huge issue
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21:24 | <warren> more difficult yes
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21:24 | but we can solve individiual issues there
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21:25 | cross-compiled binaries
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21:25 | or binaries that can put payload of another arch in the wrapper
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21:25 | <vagrantc> warren: the server has to know about how the particular version of softwares in the client chroot, rather than the client-chroot maintaining itself.
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21:25 | <warren> ok, a bit exhausted now
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21:26 | you have time to talk in depth about this tomorrow?
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21:26 | <vagrantc> i wish i could articulate better why i feel client-side is better... it *feels* like it has some positive advantages.
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21:27 | i should have time here and there during the day ... probably busy in the evenings.
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21:40 | <BGomes> .
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