IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 4 March 2014 (all times are UTC)
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| 07:18 | <vagrantc> heh.
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| 07:19 | i was thinking of changing the default recommendations for ldm-server to have a desktop environment away from gnome ...
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| 07:19 | so i tested gnome-session in Debian jessie and was surprised to find it worked reasonably well in libvirt, without even resorting to gnome-flashback or anything
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| 07:20 | so, i guess i can leave it as is.
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| 07:29 | <work_alkisg> vagrantc: it's using llvmpipe, isn't it? I.e. it only works on good CPUs?
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| 07:35 | <vagrantc> no idea
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| 07:35 | i was tempted to switch to lxde ...
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| 07:35 | <alkisg> What CPU did you test it on?
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| 07:35 | <vagrantc> a virtual server with a virtual thin client
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| 07:36 | <alkisg> Sure, but what host CPU?
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| 07:36 | <vagrantc> both of which were... reasonably modest
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| 07:36 | i guess it's a 2.6 GHz quad-core
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| 07:37 | <alkisg> Well yeah llvmpipe would work there :)
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| 07:37 | <vagrantc> the last time i tried to use gnome3 with LTSP, it just failed disasterously ... so i was impressed
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| 07:38 | <alkisg> The problem is with Pentium 3 or 4, and on real network, not VM network which is faster
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| 07:38 | <vagrantc> the server was configured with 2 procs, 2G or 4G of ram, and the thin client 1 proc ... maybe 1G of ram.
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| 07:38 | is a network latency problem?
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| 07:38 | and aa CPU intensive problem... ok.
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| 07:38 | <alkisg> VM networks can be 10 gbps even if declared as 100 mbps
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| 07:38 | <vagrantc> i'll try it with some real hardware
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| 07:39 | <alkisg> Anyways, I think you should wait until mate-desktop is ready, and make that the default then!
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| 07:40 | * vagrantc got an impressively stupid response commenting on a mate-desktop bug | |
| 07:41 | <vagrantc> https://bugs.debian.org/737013
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| 07:42 | <alkisg> Both mate-desktop and mint maintainers seem to lack good packaging practices...
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| 07:43 | <vagrantc> which is probably more why it's not usefully in debian yet than any technical reason...
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| 09:22 | <gbaman> alkisg: what was the GUI written with for sch-scripts? was it hand written?
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| 09:23 | <alkisg> gbaman: it's python/gtk/glade
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| 09:23 | <gbaman> ok
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| 09:25 | just got glade working last night on my mac
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| 09:28 | am liking it
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| 09:29 | nicer than using qt
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| 09:29 | only issue is
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| 09:29 | it is a pain to make windows guis with it
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| 09:31 | <alkisg> Nicer than qt?!!!
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| 09:32 | Me and Phantomas think it's horrible and we're planning to switch to Qt...
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| 09:32 | We're hoping unity 8 and lxde/razor-qt will help more apps switch to Qt...
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| 09:36 | <gbaman> qt is a pain to set up with python
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| 09:36 | and seems rather poorly documented
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| 09:36 | especially for mac...
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| 20:36 | <gbaman> how does one install sch-scripts?
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| 20:36 | ignoring the fact that they are greek
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| 20:36 | on a debian server
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| 20:38 | <Aaronboy> Hi Noobie to LTSP here
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| 20:39 | is it possible to use LTSP with only 1 NIC?
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| 20:39 | <vagrantc> yes
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| 20:39 | <Aaronboy> awesome
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| 20:39 | <vagrantc> !proxydhcp
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| 20:39 | <ltsp`> proxydhcp: A proxy DHCP server is defined by the PXE specification as a server which sends auxiliary boot information to clients, like the boot filename, tftp server or rootpath, but leaves the task of IP leasing to the normal DHCP server. More info: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP
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| 20:39 | <vagrantc> Aaronboy: you'll probably want to look at proxydhcp if you have another DHCP server on the network
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| 20:40 | works will with smallish networks that use DHCP off of a little router box or somethin
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| 20:40 | <Aaronboy> WOW..that makes me happy..We are using Vyatta and it provides our DHCP server
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| 20:41 | I want to use the Vyatta to assign the DHCP, shut off the DHCP service of the Edubuntu..and enable the second NIC to have an IP of 192.168.4.90
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| 20:41 | This is doable ?
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| 20:42 | <vagrantc> yes, that's what proxydhcp is for
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| 20:42 | <Aaronboy> the reason for asking about one NIC is because DHCP as a second server..caused all kinds of chaos..and beat Vyatta to ip assignment
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| 20:42 | <vagrantc> well, not sure i understand what you want with the second nic...
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| 20:42 | <Aaronboy> Here is the setup:
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| 20:43 | <vagrantc> a pxeclient will first look for proxydhcp responses, i think...
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| 20:43 | <Aaronboy> ESXI running Edubuntu 13.10 installed with LTSP and two NICS
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| 20:43 | <vagrantc> i don't know what vyatta is, but it sounds like it's your router?
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| 20:43 | <Aaronboy> problem we are having is two DHCP servers..(Vyatta and Edubuntu..create problems
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| 20:44 | yes, Vyatta is Debian based Software/Open routing for routers..
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| 20:44 | <vagrantc> so, you disable the dhcp server on edubuntu, let vyatta hand out it's DHCP requests, and you let dnsmasq on the edubuntu server handle the proxydhcp requests
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| 20:44 | <Aaronboy> Vyatta gets beat every time when it comes to IP assignment..Edubuntu beats it and causing chaos..
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| 20:45 | <vagrantc> i'm done repeating myself.
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| 20:45 | <Aaronboy> Exactly..how do I disable DHCP on the Edubuntu..without removing DHCP service and breaking LTSP?
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| 20:46 | <vagrantc> you either configure your DHCP server to give the right information to your LTSP clients, or you configure proxydhcp on the edubuntu server... see URL mentioned above.
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| 20:46 | <Aaronboy> okay..
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| 20:46 | I got it..thank you.
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| 20:47 | <vagrantc> good luck!
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| 20:47 | <Aaronboy> thank you.
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| 20:47 | We are trying to dump as much Windows as we can
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| 20:48 | <vagrantc> this of course assumes you don't have any other network booting services on your network
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| 22:31 | <ball> Does ltsp usually offer Xv?
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| 22:34 | <||cw> ltsp offers whatever the distro offers
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| 22:35 | <ball> ||cw: Xv is an X server thing though.
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| 22:35 | Oh, are you saying that the X server depends on the distro?
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| 22:35 | <||cw> yes
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| 22:36 | * ball thinks about that for a bit. | |
| 22:36 | <ball> Do distributions vary much in what they push out to the terminals?
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| 22:36 | <||cw> IIRC options are X over ssh tunnel, encrypted XMDP, and "direct_x" which I think is just XMDP, the latter being the fastest, but least secure
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| 22:36 | most use xorg now
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| 22:37 | capabilities might depend on the client driver driver though
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| 22:37 | and also the application
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| 22:38 | <ball> I'm still trying to wrap my head around the ways that ltsp differs from traditional X terminals.
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| 22:39 | <||cw> ltsp is mostly a collection of tools and scripts that tie all the variable tools like pxe and ndb or nfs together in an easy to manage way
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| 22:39 | <ball> It hadn't occurred to me that the stuff that runs on the thin clients would vary between distros.
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| 22:39 | <||cw> it provides almost no services by itself
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| 22:40 | <vagrantc> there's no such thing as ecnrypted XDMCP, direct_x is login over ssh tunnel with session over raw X11 protocol.
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| 22:41 | <||cw> I thought XDMCP was the X11 protocol?
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| 22:41 | <vagrantc> XDMCP is just a login protocol
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| 22:41 | <ball> vagrantc: So once you're logged in it's all cleartext?
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| 22:41 | <||cw> ah ok
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| 22:41 | <vagrantc> it's easy to get confused.
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| 22:41 | <||cw> ball: yes, if you enable DIRECT_X, which is not the default
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| 22:41 | <ball> I thought xdmcp was the protocol that let the xdm find hosts.
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| 22:42 | <vagrantc> it is
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| 22:42 | <ball> ||cw: Is the new default to tunnel everything through ssh?
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| 22:43 | (where new < 20 years ;-)
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| 22:43 | <vagrantc> new as in since ltsp5 started in 2005 ...
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| 22:43 | * ball nods | |
| 22:43 | <vagrantc> so, almost 10 years of ltsp5 ...
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| 22:43 | <ball> As you can tell, I'm a bit out of date.
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| 22:44 | <vagrantc> ltsp5 should retire after 10 years of service... really time to introduce ltsp6!
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| 22:44 | <ball> I just tried X11 across the LAN here at work and it's not great for video. I'd love to try it on a gigabit switch though.
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| 22:44 | <vagrantc> yeah, video is not exactly network-freindly
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| 22:44 | <ball> What would you put into ltsp6 that isn't in ltsp5?
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| 22:44 | <vagrantc> you really want to run video-intensive stuff as a localapp or even use ltsp fatclients
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| 22:44 | <ball> vagrantc: video seemed much better over VNC, fwiw.
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| 22:45 | ...but then I'm not sure the server was offering Xv.
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| 22:45 | I should check that.
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| 22:45 | <vagrantc> VNC, NX, x2go all do some black magic to make some things more viable
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| 22:45 | <ball> vagrantc: I don't think there's much black magic in hextile :-)
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| 22:46 | brb, coffee mug.
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| 22:47 | <vagrantc> it's totally feasible to use other protocols with LTSP, although the defaults only support ssh, direct_x (ssh login), RDP and dare i say it, XDMCP (but please, no!)
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| 22:48 | <ball> I think X11 is probably the right choice, given a decent network.
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| 22:48 | I should test that though before we go buying lots of thin clients.
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| 22:48 | (we need the server anyway)
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| 22:49 | Which is to say the host machine, not the X server. ;-)
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| 22:49 | <vagrantc> LDM_DIRECTX is a pretty good compromise, and is well supported out of the box (i.e. sound, localdev, etc all work)
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| 22:50 | can't say the same for all the others
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| 22:53 | <ball> I should be taking notes.
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| 22:54 | What has to be in place on the host for the terminals to be able to connect using ssh Vs. xdmcp?
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| 22:54 | <vagrantc> ssh
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| 22:54 | well, openssh-server
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| 22:54 | ideally, ldm-server
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| 22:55 | that should pull in appropriate dependencies
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| 22:55 | * ball writes that down. | |
| 22:55 | <vagrantc> this is on ubuntu?
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| 22:55 | <||cw> ball: what were you using the play the video in your test?
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| 22:56 | <ball> vagrantc: Potentially.
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| 22:56 | <vagrantc> i'm most familiar with debian, and ubuntu's not hugely different
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| 22:56 | <ball> ||cw: Firefox, though VLC's probably worth a try for stand-alone media files.
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| 22:57 | <||cw> as in, html5 video?
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| 22:58 | <||cw> if you want to be sure xv is used, mplayer with the -vo xv option is the easiest way
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| 22:59 | * ball nods | |
| 22:59 | <||cw> it'll also complain in detail if xv isn't supported for whatever reason
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| 22:59 | <ball> I'll try it.
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| 22:59 | <||cw> mplayer is by far my favorite A/V swiss army knife :)
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| 23:00 | * ball looks for a video file to play. | |
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| 23:02 | <ball> I have to go
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| 23:02 | Bye!
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