IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

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Channel log from 26 June 2008 (all times are UTC)

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02:49	<smad> Hi,
02:49	I m new to IRC, so sorry, If I do the things wrong
02:50	I m trying to know if LTSP is the solution I need.
02:50	I want to create a Web Client.
02:51	I want on a old PC with max 256 Mo, start with PXE and start a session with only firefox.
02:51	should I try a program like PXE or is there a program with pmagic pxe but with only firefox ?
02:51	thansk :-)
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05:01	<ogra> smad, see th elatter link in the following bot output:
05:01	!ubuntu
05:01	<ltspbot> ogra: "ubuntu" is a Debian based GNU/Linux distrubution that includes a Ubuntu specific version of LTSP. It can be found at http://www.ubuntulinux.org. to install ltsp on ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
05:02	<ogra> the second method uses a script called ltsp-build-client, in ubuntu that has a switch --kiosk ... if you use that switch it will create a client image that only boots firefox fullscreen
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06:19	<smad> ok thanks orga, I will test that
06:20	ogra
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07:25	<Nubae> ogra u there?
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07:34	<cyberorg> hi, welcome to the LTSP GUI gsoc weekly meeting
07:34	The_Code, is the developer working on creating a GUI for lts.conf
07:34	<The_Code> hi cyberorg
07:34	<cyberorg> kl_eisbaer, is co-mentor for the project :)
07:35	ogra, you around?
07:35	<kl_eisbaer> hi
07:35	<cyberorg> The_Code, i tried the last commit of yours, it needs a small script that compiles and prepares a folder from which testers can try it out
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07:36	<The_Code> i will upload a new pack of binaries, i added a add variable button to advanced view
07:37	<kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: what about creating a tarball?
07:37	cyberorg: so any distribution can prepare it's own packages?
07:37	<cyberorg> kl_eisbaer, too early for that :) someone might just want to pull the code and give it a try
07:38	The_Code, i just found this old doc for lts.conf http://pastebin.com/f51ef1920
07:38	<kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: if someone wants to try it, we should make it as easy as possible. Think about an OBS project containing packages for all distributions...
07:39	The_Code: BTW: I've checked the 4.2 documentation and didn't find the chapter about groups I've in mind
07:39	:-(
07:39	<The_Code> kl_eisbaer me too only like
07:39	<cyberorg> kl_eisbaer, yup, i'll add it to server:ltsp project, need a make and make install scripts that work on built service
07:39	<kl_eisbaer> anyone here who knows if it's possible to create a groupp (like [default]) for a classrom?
07:40	cyberorg: ok. So I'll try to build a package out of it
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07:40	<kl_eisbaer> so this classroom can have different "defaults" - instead of configuring changes for each client in this classroom ?
07:41	<The_Code> kl_eisbaer: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtsConf
07:41	take a look at this lts.conf example there you have your classrooms
07:41	<kl_eisbaer> The_Code: YES! Thanks!
07:42	<cyberorg> [ws002] LIKE = DELL looks good
07:42	<kl_eisbaer> That's what I've in mind ... ;-)
07:42	<cyberorg> ogra, does this still work on ltsp5 ?
07:42	<kl_eisbaer> interesting that this isn't in the 4.2 docu
07:43	<cyberorg> great so one problem solved :)
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07:44	<The_Code> i have some problems with the task stuff we discussed
07:44	how many variables should be shown
07:44	when configuring a printer for ex
07:45	<cyberorg> The_Code, just the minimum required, then all the available variables in "Advanced" mode
07:45	<kl_eisbaer> cyberorg: yes, agreed
07:46	<The_Code> so for printer only device and type?
07:46	<kl_eisbaer> The_Code: yes. should be enough
07:46	<cyberorg> other variables can be added with a + button, and a selection box with all available variables could be shown
07:47	<The_Code> cyberorg, yes
07:47	<cyberorg> variables can be grouped according to the tasks
07:48	<The_Code> sure
07:48	<kl_eisbaer> The_Code: what about using the example lts.conf as template for grouping?
07:48	<ogra> cyberorg, thats a getltscfg function which we took unmodified from ltsp 4.x
07:48	so yes, i belive that still works
07:48	<cyberorg> things like m$ mouse can just be "Add" -> "m$ mouse", the GUI should add X_MOUSE_DEVICE = /dev/ttyS0 and X_MOUSE_PROTOCOL = "Microsoft"
07:49	* ogra is in a conf call, so, sorry if i'm not replying on time
07:49	<cyberorg> just few most common configurations
07:50	ogra, no problem, you can always scroll back and reply later :)
07:51	all the user have to do is create a "group" config and keep adding ws to those
07:52	* kl_eisbaer has to go into the server-room - back in a few minutes, sorry
07:54	<cyberorg> The_Code, can you outline what you have been upto last couple of weeks and what is coming next?
07:54	<The_Code> i created the data structure for lts.conf in the application
07:55	worked on the serialization of the data structure in xml
07:56	looked for a way to recognize which variables are already set so that they can't be added twice
07:56	<ogra> oh, for allowed values in lts.conf for recent ltsp, we maintain a doc with valid values ... (i moved that upstream yesterday to be in the server docs)
07:56	look for lts-parameters.txt in your client chroot
07:56	that should give you all allowed values (there are some recent LDM vars missing we still need to add)
07:58	also i dont know if you had a look at the (unmaintained) python-ltsp module package in ubuntu, it determines all possible values for variables inside the chroot dynamically
07:58	but as i said, unmaintained and likely quite outdated
07:58	<The_Code> ogra, great
07:59	<cyberorg> http://pastebin.com/d22517660
07:59	<ogra> will surely need some love before you can make use of it, but might be a starting point for automaticng stuff
07:59	<The_Code> i had a look at the python-ltsp
07:59	<ogra> *automating
07:59	ah, good
07:59	it might be though that some distros dont keep the chroot around
08:00	sine its not really needed for normal operation
08:00	*since
08:00	<cyberorg> we dont have it for prebuilt image too, but we can always mount squashfs image and use it?
08:00	<ogra> in such cases you could loop mount the image in a unionfs or aufs utomatically though
08:00	yeah
08:01	snap :)
08:01	you only need it readonly anyway, likely not even a union is needed
08:01	<cyberorg> just normal loop mounted
08:01	<ogra> right
08:02	<cyberorg> ogra, would that require all distros to include that script?
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08:04	<cyberorg> The_Code, what else?
08:04	<ogra> well, the app should actually be able to determine if there is a chroot and do the mounting dynamiclly imho
08:04	oh, you mean the python-ltsp module ?
08:04	<cyberorg> ogra, yes
08:04	<ogra> i fear atm thats very ubuntu centric and will need special cases for all distros
08:05	not every distro will store keymap info in the same place
08:05	or video drivers etc
08:05	<cyberorg> hmm, yes
08:05	<ogra> python-ltsp just digs the common places for these
08:05	<cyberorg> we will stick with standard ltsp variables for now then
08:05	<ogra> the content for sure is everywhere the same
08:05	<The_Code> i worked on the interaction between the different widgets to keep values up to date
08:05	<ogra> but the paths will differ
08:06	<The_Code> and worked on a dialog for adding tasks
08:06	next will be defining tasks and needed variables
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08:07	<The_Code> get all the possible values for the variables (where there are only some) and creating comboboxes to make the value choice easier
08:07	<cyberorg> cool
08:08	<The_Code> and of course finding easier names for the variables
08:09	<cyberorg> what you can do is make a list of common variables on wiki, group them together, and we can go over them as soon as possible
08:09	leave out the obscure variables that no one might set for now
08:10	<ogra> dont assume that :)
08:10	<The_Code> i will prepare a set of tasks and the variables i think are needed
08:10	maybe we should ask the ml for common tasks?
08:10	<cyberorg> Xserver, keyboard, monitor, printer is what i think are common tasks
08:11	<The_Code> agree
08:11	<cyberorg> ogra, yeah, japs want their cultural imperialism variables?
08:11	<ogra> yes, that too, but assume that variables that are documented somewhere will be used by people ... we stil get people trying to enable NFS_SWAP for example
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08:12	<ogra> (which isnt supported at all though, but there is a howto someweher out there)
08:12	so people try to set it ...
08:12	yeah, well, swap should definately be in the common tasks
08:12	(NBD_SWAP ideed)
08:13	localdev ... people like to switch them on and off
08:13	<cyberorg> ogra, we are calling this Easy-LTSP :)
08:13	<ogra> its a standard admin task
08:13	some might to want to switch off sould support in their office
08:13	*sound
08:13	sorry
08:13	<cyberorg> NBD_SWAP is automatically used if the available ram is below the threshold from the initrd
08:14	<ogra> right
08:14	but people still can set it on manually if they want
08:14	colordepth is also a critical thing you need to be able to set if you have slow clients ...
08:14	resolution as well
08:15	these can both directly influence client speed
08:15	<cyberorg> ok, so the tasks so far: Monitor, keyboard, mouse, xserver, sound, local devices (usb,floppy,cdrom etc)
08:15	<ogra> and speking of that LDM_DIRECTX indeed
08:16	call it something like "drop encryption" in a checkbox ... and make sure to have it scary enough users get that they drop most security with it :)
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08:16	<cyberorg> :)
08:16	"Not suitable for banking"
08:17	<ogra> yeah
08:17	LDM_THEME couls also be intresting
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08:18	<ogra> oh, and autologin ... but that might get tricky to do in a cross distro way so leave it out for now
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08:18	<cyberorg> it would be cool to just select png image for ldm theme background, it could be served over tftp
08:18	anyone would then be able to create their own "themes"
08:19	<The_Code> is there any documentation for the LDM_ variables (can't find LDM_THEME ...)
08:19	<ogra> well, in debian and ubuntu the themes are installed already as packages
08:19	The_Code, as i said, some LDM vars are missing in the docs
08:19	<cyberorg> ogra, rebuilding image after installing new theme is too much :)
08:20	<ogra> The_Code, best is to look through the ldm commits for these http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk/changes
08:20	cyberorg, well ...
08:20	thats how it works atm
08:20	you need to code if you want it different ...
08:21	theer is no code supporting something like pulling pngs from tftp and putting them into the theme
08:21	<cyberorg> ogra, that gives me idea, we can probably do that without coding in kiwi
08:22	The_Code, you can start on the small groups of common variables and we can take it from there
08:23	<ogra> yeah
08:24	<The_Code> will do so
08:24	<cyberorg> The_Code, you still haven't replied to someone who asked "why mono" :)
08:24	<ogra> uh, you do it in mono ?
08:24	<The_Code> yes
08:25	* ogra guesses that will lower the amount of future contributions
08:25	<ogra> i.e. most fedora people dont like to touch mono
08:26	many debian people either
08:26	ubuntu is so so ... i think you might get ptaches and fixes from there, no idea about gentoo ...
08:26	but the myth that its patent encumbered will surely lose you some valuable patches
08:27	FUD is a bad thing :/
08:27	<The_Code> i like it, c# is a cool language
08:27	<cyberorg> The_Code, you have tough job of answering "why" ahead :)
08:28	<ogra> yeah and its yur project
08:28	i dont mind mono but i know many people do
08:28	<The_Code> and the class library provides good support for tasks
08:28	<ogra> and you will have that issue recurring regulary
08:28	<The_Code> like the xml serialization stuff
08:28	* ogra hates xml
08:29	<ogra> passionately
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08:29	<Jane_ux> hi every1
08:29	is there anyway to reset the system permissions to default?
08:29	<ogra> hey, you made it over here :)
08:30	<The_Code> cyberorg i will prepare a post telling why mono
08:30	<Jane_ux> :)
08:30	yep
08:30	im a bit desesperate
08:30	<cyberorg> The_Code, great
08:30	* ogra thinks Jane_ux would be better served in a gnome channel though ....
08:30	<ogra> looks very gconf specific
08:31	<Jane_ux> if u say so
08:31	<cyberorg> The_Code, regarding the kiwi-ltsp bit, i saw the labels left alighned, could you also make the input fields left too?
08:31	<Jane_ux> but which files the show_desktop key look at??
08:31	is there any way to know it?
08:32	<ogra> Jane_ux, if you sudo it wil be the system gconf DB ... if you dont it will be ~/.gconf
08:32	<cyberorg> The_Code, in that GUI, just have IP address, subnetmask and dhcp range fields visible, and put everything else in "advanced"
08:32	<Jane_ux> im sudo
08:32	<The_Code> cyberorg, what GUI
08:32	<Jane_ux> and what the hell, i am starting to see show_desktops all around my room :)
08:33	<cyberorg> The_Code, http://developer.novell.com/wiki/images/6/6c/Easy-ltsp-kiwi-first.jpg
08:33	<Jane_ux> i even uninstall saboya
08:34	and pessulus have all the options unchecked
08:34	<The_Code> cyberorg, okay the input fields are left (did you mean the comboboxes)
08:34	<cyberorg> The_Code, make install, tftp paths etc visible only when user selects "advanced"
08:34	yeah comboboxes
08:35	<Jane_ux> in my others machines gconf show_desktop key work fine
08:35	<cyberorg> The_Code, rename DHCP to "Network Configuration" and keep only that bit visible
08:35	<The_Code> comboboxes can be difficult but should work
08:36	cyberorg, fine will do
08:36	<Jane_ux> Can't overwrite existing read-only value: Can't overwrite existing read-only value: Value for `/apps/nautilus/preferences/show_desktop' set in a read-only source at the front of your configuration path
08:37	my configuration path?? where is it??
08:37	<cyberorg> great, i guess that is all from me
08:37	<ogra> Jane_ux, i'm sure the gnome guys might be able to help you with such a clear error msg
08:37	<cyberorg> The_Code, when do we meet again for the variable/groups?
08:37	<Jane_ux> ok i ll go to #gnome
08:37	heyy ogra
08:37	* ogra has to go back to work duties
08:37	<Jane_ux> thanks again
08:37	:)
08:37	<ogra> ;)
08:38	<cyberorg> ogra, thanks :)
08:38	<The_Code> cyberorg, i try to get those basic stuff together today
08:38	thanks ogra for joining
08:38	<cyberorg> great
08:39	<ogra> The_Code, gern geschehn :)
08:39	<The_Code> so i guess we should be able to talk about it saturday (have to pick up my parents from the airport tomorrow)
08:39	ogra, danke :)
08:40	cyberorg, is that ok?
08:41	<cyberorg> The_Code, yeah ok :)
08:41	got your accommodations sorted?
08:42	<The_Code> yeah
08:43	i should have a first add dialog for some of the tasks too
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09:23	<Skarmeth> hi all
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09:24	<Skarmeth> otavio, hi guy
09:25	otavio, did you work in debian ltsp team yet?
09:26	I am testing etch ltsp 5 and I am having problems with monitor detection and resolution
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09:26	<mighty-d> Hi
09:26	<Skarmeth> by I can see, it always set monitor as 15"
09:26	with a fixed refresh rate
09:27	<mighty-d> i was looking at the hardy heron ubuntu alternate install cd, is this availible on kubuntu as well?
09:33	<ogra> mighty-d, yep
09:33	kubuntu also hads an alternate iso and it ships the same LTSP autosetup
09:33	*has
09:36	<mighty-d> do you think its worth the time to download the alternate cd when i have the regular cd
09:37	or should i go with aptitude
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09:38	<masus> hi all
09:38	<ogra> indeed, you cn just install kubuntu-desktop
09:38	*can
09:39	make sure to run sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager afterwards and select kde as default
09:39	else you will have to selecti it manually on each login, that can get annoying
09:39	<mighty-d> ogra, the cd i have is kubuntu hardy heiron, but it doesn't have the ltsp alternative on the boot screen
09:40	<ogra> is that the alternate iso (no liveCD session on there(
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09:40	<mighty-d> yes, no live cd
09:41	<ogra> hmm, i thought they had pulled the ltsp stuff in ... at least for the regular kubuntu CD .... its definately not on the KDE4 ones
09:42	<mighty-d> does kde4 works with ltsp?
09:42	<ogra> no idea
09:42	the last kde i touched was 1.2 :)
09:42	i know there are some kubuntu users with ltsp so i roughly know 3.x works
09:43	<mighty-d> ok, thanks
09:43	<ogra> in the end its just a desktop ... ltsp doesnt care what desktop you use in the session on the server
09:43	<mighty-d> as you can see i followed your instructions and removed gutsy
09:44	thats true :)
09:45	ogra, thank you so much, i will try to configure the hardy this time
09:45	<ogra> :)
09:46	<cliebow> 8~0
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09:51	<jammcq> helloooooo
09:51	<cliebow> halllooooooooooooo
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09:59	<otavio> Skarmeth: not too much
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10:11	<dberkholz> ogra: fwiw, yes we do have mono and don't really have any issues with it. gnome uses it, we follow upstream, so we do too.
10:15	<ogra> dberkholz, right, as i said before i dont mind it myself either ... but there many people being caught by the FUD that will refrain from contributing because of it
10:16	<dberkholz> our previous mono maintainers eventually became upstream contributors to either mono directly or c# projects
10:16	<ogra> thas one reason why i ouldnt do any project in mono that should be used across all distros
10:16	<dberkholz> so they seem pretty comfortable with it
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10:17	<dberkholz> i definitely see where you're coming from. i think that as gnome moves more c#, there will be less unwillingness because people will have to use it to use gnome
10:17	<ogra> i even maintained the ubuntu mono packages for about a year
10:18	but still, as long as it will cost me contributors i will do my stuff in pygtk or plain C ... since i know people are more willing to contribute to that
10:18	(and it keeps me from having discussions like "why did you choose *" ... )
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10:22	<Nubae> hi ogra.... u there?
10:23	<ogra> partially, i'm very busy getting ubuntu merges done
10:24	<Nubae> ok I want to show ltsp to the olpc guys, and was wondering if there is some sort of setup to install on a laptop together with a virtualised client
10:24	<ogra> these debian guys always give me work by updating their software while we are frozen ....
10:24	<Nubae> hehe... allright, well I'll ask later and let you get back to work... this isn't top priority
10:24	<ogra> well, i usually ste up a virtualbox env for my iso tests
10:25	<Nubae> so just install normal install on a laptop and then virtualbox
10:25	<ogra> create one vm that has two NICs of which one is attached to the internal network, do a normal ubuntu ltsp CD install in there, create a second vm without disk and netbooting, also attached to the internal network
10:26	then boot the second vm while the first one is running
10:26	<Nubae> aha 2 vms... cool... Thought could do it with just one
10:26	<ogra> helful is to limit the videoram to 2M because that will make vbox switch to 800x600 mode for the screen by default, so your client easily fits on the screen
10:27	<Nubae> ok thanks a bunch...
10:27	<ogra> that way i do all my non HW related testing
10:27	<vagrantc> ogra: yeah, now that you've finally merged all the ltsp related stuff, i'm rearin to upload some new packages :)
10:27	* ogra should put up a wiki for that one day
10:28	<ogra> vagrantc, yeah, its always the same you guys can never keep your feet silent
10:28	and ubuntu has to suffer ...
10:28	g
10:28	<laga> silent feet?
10:28	* vagrantc joins the ubuntu sufferage movement
10:28	<ogra> laga, indeed, as opposed to talking feet
10:28	:P
10:30	<Gadi> what about happy feet?
10:31	<jammcq> doing the happy packet dance?
10:33	<vagrantc> \|Ryan52: get anywhere playing with cdpinger?
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10:47	<\|Ryan52> vagrantc: it is much better code in shell. and I think it should be left in shell. There's no easy way to get that information in C.
10:49	* Gadi wonders why cdpinger moved to C
10:50	<ogra> Gadi, scott didnt tell us
10:50	he just made that change, asked if anyone objects and merged the code
10:51	<Gadi> !seen sbalneav
10:51	<ltspbot> Gadi: sbalneav was last seen in #ltsp 1 week, 2 days, 18 hours, 26 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <sbalneav> I'll pop in later tonight. Off home for the day.
10:51	<Gadi> ;))
10:51	<ogra> its a looong night in canada
10:51	<Gadi> heh
10:52	is the happy packet dance on youtube yet?
10:52	<ogra> http://www.youtube.com/ubuntudevelopers ?
10:53	<Gadi> now, there's a ascary site
10:53	*scary
10:54	<ogra> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jzGIaZcGcM ... nota actually a dance but many packagers :)
10:56	<Gadi> open source is a scay scary place
10:56	<ogra> hehe
10:56	<vagrantc> \|Ryan52: ok, thanks for looking into it :)
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11:31	<vagrantc> ogra, warren, dberkholz, cyberorg: planning on tagging ltspfs-trunk in the next hour
11:32	<ogra> have fun :)
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11:36	<dberkholz> vagrantc: thx for the note
11:37	<vagrantc> of course :)
11:38	though largely just following established procedure :)
11:39	<cyberorg> vagrantc, whats new? :)
11:39	<vagrantc> cyberorg: cdpinger and ltspfsd from udev, mainly.
11:40	<cyberorg> ok, cool :)
11:40	<vagrantc> cyberorg: so it may require minor changes to your init scripts, if you use the configure_localdev function
11:40	<klausade> vagrantc: hello. had another encounter with those "weird" scenarios today; old machines with pxe nic that don't understand next-server argument, they just fail to boot when dhcp and the ltsp chroot is not on the same server. compaq deskpro from ~1996
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11:40	<cyberorg> oh, what change?
11:41	remove cdpinger from there?
11:41	<vagrantc> klausade: gah.
11:41	cyberorg: basically, yeah.
11:41	<cyberorg> ok, will do
11:42	<mattwalston> I have adequate bandwidth on my network, adequate specs on server, thinclients are PXE boot boxes with 400MHz and GB ram. I don't need sound or local devices at all. What can I do to improve LTSP performance?
11:42	<vagrantc> i might put code in to detect if it's already running...
11:42	<cyberorg> vagrantc, btw, i put your kde desktop icon script to use, needs blocking if gnome session is running
11:42	<vagrantc> cyberorg: yeah, that's why i didn't include it by default.
11:42	although the code is really klausade's
11:43	<cyberorg> see the ltsp-discuss, i have added bash script wrapper that blocks it if gnome is running
11:43	<klausade> vagrantc: yes, the solutiuon is either to put dhcp and chroot on the same server, or boot the machines with etherboot floppy.
11:44	<cyberorg> now i have it default
11:44	<vagrantc> klausade: could you detect them in dhcp, and send them etherboot over the network ?
11:44	<cyberorg> klausade, the icons used were not found on kde4 desktop though, otherwise it works flawlessly
11:47	<Skarmeth> any way to fix monitor/video card detection on LTSP 5 of Debian Etch so it can work fine with VIA card and LG LCD monitors?
11:47	I am getting a wrong resolution and ugly fonts definition
11:48	I am new to LTSP 5. I have good experience with LTSP 3.x/4.x
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11:51	<vagrantc> ogra, otavio: any idea why we depend on the discover1 package in ltsp-client-core ?
11:53	<chrisjrob> Skarmeth: you've tried specifying correct resolution/freq/refresh in lts.conf?
11:53	<mattwalston> why isn't LDM_DIRECTX documented anywhere? I get a lts.conf syntax error on boot with it in my conf
11:53	<ogra> vagrantc, iirc tha was needed by dexconf in the past
11:55	vagrantc, btw, i moved lts-parameters.txt over to server/doc ... we should probably make it mandatory that people add their newly inented options there in the future
11:55	*invented
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11:57	<vagrantc> ogra: yeah, i saw the move with lts-parameters ... should always make a point of updating that.
11:57	i might just go ahead and install it in both packages, though.
11:57	<Skarmeth> chrisjrob, yep
11:58	<ogra> would work too indeed, i'll keep it on the server side though
11:59	my lts.conf on the client has this scary and noisy note anyway ... i want ubuntu users to use the tftp way which makes it valid to be on the server side only
11:59	<vagrantc> ogra: fair enough.
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12:01	<klausade> vagrantc: i tried sending them etherboot over the network, but that didn't seem to work. And moving the chroot over to the dhcp-server only took a few minutes, so I took the easy route.
12:01	<chrisjrob> Skarmeth: I have found ltsp5 trickier with monitors, but I have LG monitors working fine. Have you set X_COLOR_DEPTH = 16 - might help.
12:02	<vagrantc> klausade: i think pxe didn't stabalize till 99 or so anyways ... there were a lot of broken implementations
12:03	<Skarmeth> chrisjrob, I can't set if different, it always get color depth to 16
12:04	<ogra> Skarmeth, that'd be a bug, its supposed to accept other values ..
12:04	but we default to 16 since some time
12:05	<chrisjrob> Skarmeth, I'm just booting up a PC with a via card (not on an LG monitor I'm afraid)... looks awful - just checking my lts.conf
12:08	<Skarmeth> I supposing that lts.conf should reside on /opt/ltsp/<arch>/etc/lts.conf
12:09	<chrisjrob> Skarmeth, it had no entries in lts.conf - set X_MODE_0 = 1280x1024, X_HORZSYNC = "30-80", X_VERTREFRESH = "50-75" and it looks perfect
12:09	<klausade> vagrantc: yes, pce from before that year, are in many cases a bit touch and go. But, with a sufficent big enough toolbox, it's possible to get it working.
12:09	<Skarmeth> if I change something and reboot the thin client, I still get setting from the auto-detect process, not one set by me
12:09	<chrisjrob> Skarmeth, mine is in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf (Debian Etch)
12:10	<Skarmeth> chrisjrob, yep, same distro
12:10	same place
12:10	<chrisjrob> Skarmeth, I had a problem recently where I had a duplicate entry in lts.conf, and then wondered why changing one was making no difference - might be worth checking?
12:11	<Skarmeth> I have just Default entry
12:12	<chrisjrob> That makes things simpler!
12:12	<Skarmeth> it show a lot of value set .. true ... and start the ldm session
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12:15	<chrisjrob> Skarmeth, ldm will start by default - you don't need to set it in default AFAIK.
12:15	won't solve your problem though!
12:16	<ogra> klausade, worst case you should be able to set IPOPTS as kernel option the the PXE config, i think it has a value for next-server (not 100% sure though, read up about ipconfig from klibc)
12:16	Skarmeth, how about you show us your lts.conf :)
12:16	!pastebot
12:16	<ltspbot> ogra: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
12:20	<Skarmeth> here is it http://pastebin.ca/1056535
12:22	<ltsppbot> "Skarmeth" pasted "lts.conf - VIA and LG on Debian Etch LTSP" (7 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/1
12:24	<Gadi> Skarmeth: if you are wrestling with video, the best thing to do is log into the thin client console and look at xorg.conf and the log file
12:24	(/var/log/Xorg.*.log)
12:24	in fact, the log file usually tells all :)
12:25	<Skarmeth> there is a default account/password or I can create one inside the chroot without causing problems to ltsp?
12:26	<chrisjrob> Skarmeth, yes you can set in chroot without a problem
12:26	just sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386, then passwd
12:27	<Skarmeth> chrisjrob, I am setting up a kerberos/ldap account to chroot...
12:27	<chrisjrob> Skarmeth, no idea - others will know...!
12:28	<Skarmeth> chrisjrob, I know how to do so
12:28	<Gadi> you have ldap support in the chroot itself?
12:28	<Skarmeth> Gadi, I am setting it up
12:28	<Gadi> thats a lot of hacking
12:28	I hope you set up sudo too
12:29	and PAM
12:29	:)
12:29	<Skarmeth> Gadi, I did it
12:29	<Gadi> cool
12:29	* Gadi passes Skarmeth a beer
12:29	<Skarmeth> I was just checking if changing the root account will not mess up everything inside chroot
12:30	I need to get inside ltsp 5
12:30	I need to migrate my ltsp 4.2 servers
12:30	I was far away from ltsp community for a long time...
12:30	<Gadi> why do your thin clients chroots have LDAP users?
12:30	<Skarmeth> I translated it's docs to pt-br
12:31	some of then run local apps
12:31	<Gadi> ah
12:31	<chrisjrob> Skarmeth, apologies for repeating, but are you sure you've tried X_COLOR_DEPTH = 16, I just notice your lts.conf says 24 - and that caused me problems on older hardware.
12:32	<ogra> just dont set it, it should default to 16 then ...
12:33	oh, wait, thats original etch, not the backports ?
12:33	if so, then i think you need to set it to 16, the original etch is ancient
12:33	<chrisjrob> mine's backports ogra
12:34	i'll take it out - thanks.
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13:54	<vagrantc> ltspfs 0.5.3 tagged, pushed, uploaded to debian.
13:55	<ogra> not yet on the ubuntu merge list though ...
13:55	your buildds are really to slow :P
13:57	<epoxy\|w3rk> is ltsp is good on debian (etch) now? I am reading some noted trouble with ltsp5 and debian.. but they are all from early 2007 it seems
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14:15	<ninkendo> Hi all... I've been using LTSP successfully for a few years... and we've decided to move to another server for PXE and TFTP... a WDS server
14:15	I basically copied everything from /var/lib/tftpboot into the TFTP dir on the WDS server, and all my PXE menu entries are intact
14:15	and everything else works except my thin clients don't want to boot
14:15	they get dropped to a busybox prompt
14:16	I think they're trying to mount their base filesystem from the same server they used for TFTP... how do I configure them to go to a different server for the root fs?
14:16	<Gadi> what version of LTSP and distro?
14:16	<ninkendo> ubuntu hardy
14:16	I think that has the most recent ltsp
14:16	<Gadi> add to kernel params:
14:16	<ninkendo> >=5.0 at least
14:16	<Gadi> NBDROOT=
14:17	I think that should work
14:17	ie: NBDROOT=192.168.0.254
14:17	(that would be in your pxelinux.cfg/default file
14:18	<ninkendo> ok, lemme try that
14:18	so, is that a standard kernel param? like APPEND ro initrd=initrd quit splash NBDROOT=blah?
14:18	or is that separate from the APPEND line
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14:22	<Gadi> standard
14:22	put it right after splash
14:22	<ninkendo> hmm, doesn't seem to work
14:22	either uppercase or lowercase
14:22	do I have to have a port number too?
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14:23	<Gadi> it should use default port
14:23	try: ROOTSERVER
14:23	instead of NBD_SERVER
14:25	<ninkendo> still not working
14:26	I'll try it with just SERVER=
14:26	still nothing :(
14:27	<ogra> NBDROOT requires to set IP and port ... NBDSERVER sets the IP for the image server, NBDPORT sets the port of the imageserver
14:28	so set NBDSERVER and make sure the inetd.conf entries for it are there
14:28	<ninkendo> are we sure these are kernel parameters? the all-caps makes it seem like they're lts.conf entries
14:28	<Gadi> ah, so either: NBDSERVER=192.168.0.254
14:28	<ogra> (on the imageserver)
14:28	<Gadi> or: NBDROOT=192.168.0.254 NBDPORT=2000
14:28	<ogra> no
14:28	NBDROOT=192.168.0.254:2000
14:28	<Gadi> ah
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14:29	<ogra> or NBDSERVER=192.168.0.254 and NBDPORT=2000 (default, must not be set if it doesnt differ)
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14:29	<ogra> thats soo sweet:
14:29	http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/archives/141821.asp
14:34	<ninkendo> bah, it's still not working
14:34	<Gadi> ninkendo: are you using PXE?
14:34	<ninkendo> and I'm changing the menu labels around so I know I'm editing the right config file
14:34	Gadi: yeah
14:34	<Gadi> u sure?
14:34	<ninkendo> it's trying to grab the nbd root from the tftp server
14:34	which is windows
14:34	yes I'm sure
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14:35	<ninkendo> the F1 console on the thin client is saying rootserver: (wrong IP) rootpath: /opt/ltsp/i386 filename: (correct filename)
14:35	then Error: Connect: Connection refused
14:35	<cliebow> ogra:What a gas!
14:35	<ninkendo> which is to be expected, since it's the wrong server
14:36	<Gadi> ah, try:
14:36	<ogra> ninkendo, oh shit ... try NBD_ROOT_SERVER :)
14:36	pardon my french :)
14:36	<Gadi> right
14:36	<ninkendo> heh
14:36	<Gadi> I was just going to say that
14:36	<ninkendo> trying
14:36	<Gadi> I just looked at the code
14:36	:)
14:37	<ninkendo> still doesn't work :(
14:37	<ogra> err, gadi, wong :)
14:37	<ninkendo> still says rootserver: (wrong IP)
14:37	<ogra> if [ -n "${nbdroot}" ]; then
14:37	NBD_ROOT_SERVER=$( echo "${nbdroot}" \| sed 's/:.*//')
14:37	NBD_ROOT_PORT=$( echo "${nbdroot}" \| sed 's/.*://')
14:37	man, i wrote that code i really should know that :)
14:37	<Gadi> so: nbdroot=192.168.0.254:2000
14:37	shoudl work
14:37	<ogra> yeah
14:38	sigh
14:38	<Gadi> ninkendo: no spaces, by the way
14:38	<ninkendo> right
14:38	<Gadi> this aint lts.conf
14:38	:)
14:39	<ninkendo> hmm, that's odd
14:39	so nbdroot lowercase
14:39	<ogra> yeah
14:39	<ninkendo> that works
14:39	heh
14:39	<ogra> kernel params are always lowercase
14:39	<ninkendo> nbdroot=12.34.56.78:2000
14:39	* ogra totally forgot
14:39	<ninkendo> seems to be the only thing that worked
14:40	I tried nbdroot and NBDROOT, but didn't type the port either time
14:40	thanks guys!
14:40	<ogra> well ROOTSERVER should actually have worked as well
14:40	<ninkendo> I think I tried ROOT_SERVER
14:40	<ogra> if dhcp doesnt override that
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14:40	<ogra> might be it does
14:40	<Gadi> prolly
14:40	<ninkendo> dhcp provides the server to get pxelinux.0 from
14:40	<Gadi> ipconfig kills it
14:40	<ogra> ah, yeah
14:41	<ninkendo> whew
14:41	ltsp + wds in perfect harmony, finally
14:41	<ogra> :)
14:42	<Gadi> ogra: do you know if any ubuntu folks maintain the trident driver?
14:42	(video)
14:42	<ogra> only the debian package
14:42	<Gadi> yeah, the xorg folks seem to think nobody does
14:43	which I can believe
14:43	<ogra> and its ubuntu changes (if any)
14:43	<Gadi> I am trying to solve this bug that scotty and I have
14:43	which is quite annoying
14:43	* Gadi wishes he knew more about video drivers
14:44	* ogra wishes too that Gadi knew more about video drivers
14:44	<Gadi> Timo Aaltonen - u nkow him?
14:44	*know
14:45	<ogra> tjaalton in #ubuntu-devel
14:45	<Gadi> thx
14:45	<ogra> for deeper stuff you want bryce though
14:46	indradg has quit IRC
14:46	<ogra> timo is really good with scripts, packaging and debugging, but for code bryce is teh better choice
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14:46	<ninkendo> the only thing I hate about using WDS as my tftp server is win2k3 doesn't support symlinks ;_;
14:46	<Gadi> k
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14:46	<ninkendo> so no symlinking alternate configurations to client MAC addresses
14:47	have to copy everything around
14:47	<ogra> file a bug ;)
14:47	<ninkendo> heh
14:47	they'd say "Fixed in current version" and try to get me to upgrade to 2k8
14:47	which doesn't support mixed-mode WDS, so no ltsp for me
14:48	<ogra> to see it was never actually fixed ... but there is that new license now :P
14:49	<ninkendo> well, 2k8/vista has symlinks, at least
14:49	welcome to the seventies, microsoft
14:49	<ogra> heh
14:49	well did you see the link i pasted above
14:49	with the bill gates mail in it ?
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14:50	<ninkendo> yep
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14:53	* epoxy\|w3rk scrolls up
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14:59	<Gadi> ogra: what DW hardware do you have there?
14:59	I can look up the specs
15:00	<ogra> all of them i think
15:00	apart from the jammin 125
15:00	<Gadi> maybe the term-150
15:01	<ogra> thats what i use constantly as my desktop
15:01	<Gadi> usb mouse?
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15:02	<ogra> wireless keyboard, optical usb mouse
15:02	keyboard also usb
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15:02	<Gadi> well, according to the website, that uses trident driver
15:02	can you confirm?
15:03	<ogra> yes, it does
15:03	<alkisg> ninkendo, win2k3 and win2k do support symlinks, just download the "junction" utility from microsoft.
15:03	<ogra> but i have no issues here apart from the reallly suck shielding of the soundcard
15:03	(which produces a lot of bckground noise when litening to music)
15:04	<Gadi> hmm.. I dont have that
15:04	I wonder if it is a BIOS setting (like amount of shared memory)
15:05	the docs say the 150 shares 8MB
15:05	<ogra> hmm, i never touched the BIOS
15:05	* Gadi reboots to check BIOS
15:05	<Gadi> bbiab
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15:11	<Gadi> well, we'll see what happens - I reduced my AGP aperture to 8MB
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15:18	<Gadi> heh
15:18	that just made it die faster
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15:47	<ninkendo> bah, he left
15:47	I was going to say, junctions are only for folders
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17:23	<juanpaul> hello, anyone knows if the lts.conf should be in the initrd image, or how its downloaded by the tftp server (at wich run level?)
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17:43	<vagrantc_> juanpaul: it's downloaded using tftp when the initramfs image loads.
17:43	well, when the code inside the initramfs downloads it using tftp
17:45	<juanpaul> vagrantc_, thanxs for reply. OK, then i will do more tests
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18:15	<jammcq> hey all
18:26	* vagrantc_ waves
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18:52	<jammcq> hey vagrantc_
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19:07	<ryudo> hi all
19:07	i have only 1 MB VRAM on my terminals ... i can use 1024x768 16bits ?
19:16	<vagrantc_> nope.
19:16	800x600 @ 16bpp is the limit with 1MB ... i think.
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19:20	<X0d_of_N0d_> Is anyone using the LDM_DIRECTX variable on Hardy?
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19:28	<ryudo> :D thanks vagrantc_
19:29	Xorg use this memory (vram) or use local ram ?
19:33	8006002(16bits) / 1024 = 937,5 Kbytes
19:34	10247682(16bits) / 1024 = 1,536 MB :(
19:41	<X0d_of_N0d_> has anyone ever used LDM_DIRECTX?
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19:50	<X0d_of_N0d_> does any setting in lts.conf actually DO anything?
19:50	I set SCREEN_7=startx, ignored
19:50	LDM_DIRECTX=true, ignored
19:50	changed the server to force LDM_DIRECTX...it broke ldm
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19:51	<X0d_of_N0d_> This worked on gutsy, why is it broken now?
19:51	* X0d_of_N0d_ grumbles
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19:53	<epoxy\|w3rk> hey.. my dpkg -l \|grep ltsp returns .99 versions..
19:55	how to i check what version i have? 0.99debian11+etch1
20:00	<X0d_of_N0d_> aptitude show ltsp-server
20:03	epoxy\|w3rk: are you trying to figure things out on the server, or client?
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20:08	<epoxy\|w3rk> X0d_of_N0d_, doing the command on the server. Everything is working great, i just thought the version number was weird
20:09	http://packages.debian.org/etch/ltsp-server-standalone
20:09	<X0d_of_N0d_> yeah, ltsp does have some really strange version numbering
20:09	mostly because every distro really has it's own ltsp
20:09	<epoxy\|w3rk> lyle:/etc/dhcp3# aptitude show ltsp-server
20:10	Version: 0.99debian11+etch1
20:10	<X0d_of_N0d_> so it's not really ltsp 0.99, it's the 11th rev of debian's ltsp 0.99
20:10	<epoxy\|w3rk> debian people mess everything up just a little bit ;)
20:10	<X0d_of_N0d_> yeah, I'm working with ubuntu....
20:10	man
20:11	<epoxy\|w3rk> i'm freebsd for most everything. i use debian only at work though.. it isn't -that- bad. they just change random stuff.
20:11	<X0d_of_N0d_> yeah, like openssl
20:11	<epoxy\|w3rk> ltsp is pretty cool though
20:11	heh
20:12	<X0d_of_N0d_> the idea of ltsp is pretty cool
20:12	the implimentation is ok, but needs a LOT of work
20:12	we did our on implimentation before ltsp5 really worked, and that worked ok...
20:12	<epoxy\|w3rk> we use it a lot ...we program register of deeds offices with a lot of bootless stations. we have been using some hacked together old knoppix. replacing it with debian
20:13	*diskless ha
20:13	<X0d_of_N0d_> yeah, we've been repling debian with ubuntu because debian has old software
20:13	<epoxy\|w3rk> just got to a login prompt for the first time about 5 minutes ago :)
20:13	yeah.. backports makes it current though;
20:13	<X0d_of_N0d_> everyone complains about stupid crap...whatever, most is fixed in ubuntu
20:13	yeah, that's fun
20:14	maybe we should have just used that....
20:14	<epoxy\|w3rk> it's great.. i love it on my workstation. and i run it on embedded boxes... great stuff.
20:14	!backports is ancient though
20:14	<ltspbot> epoxy\|w3rk: Error: "backports" is not a valid command.
20:14	<X0d_of_N0d_> we decided to use lenny to get the newest stuff... unfortunately leny became really unstable
20:14	<epoxy\|w3rk> i bet
20:15	<X0d_of_N0d_> ubuntu is genreally pretty stable, but a pain in the ass to work with
20:15	<epoxy\|w3rk> hm.. have to look at how to add users to this thing i guess? i have a login screen but never messed with users
20:15	<X0d_of_N0d_> are you using ldm and all that?
20:15	you add users to the server
20:16	<epoxy\|w3rk> regular shell accounts?
20:16	<X0d_of_N0d_> unless you have a centralized authentication system like ldap, yeah...
20:16	do you have multiple systems, or does everyone use one centralized box?
20:16	<epoxy\|w3rk> weird.. rebooting now.
20:17	multiple
20:17	<X0d_of_N0d_> yeah, I'd suggest setting up ldap
20:17	once you get used to it it's pretty easy, and it has great fail-over...plus everything works with ldap
20:18	<epoxy\|w3rk> i tried a shell account and it didnt work earlier.. about to try here in a minute
20:18	<X0d_of_N0d_> wait....
20:19	do you have a graphical login, or a shell?
20:19	* epoxy\|w3rk is looking for documentation
20:19	<epoxy\|w3rk> both
20:19	<X0d_of_N0d_> uh... ok, the graphical login should be connected to your server
20:19	the shell is connected to your client
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20:21	<epoxy\|w3rk> should my account on there work via console, too? i get login incorrect
20:21	i think i need to go read a bit :)
20:22	<X0d_of_N0d_> no, it won't
20:22	<epoxy\|w3rk> well.. i dont get an error when i log in via GUI.. it just had a Mac watch curson and stays there
20:22	*cursor
20:23	<X0d_of_N0d_> yeah, that's cause the gui is your server
20:23	the console is your client
20:24	so if you want to do anything with the client you'll want to put a shell script in the usr/lib/ltsp/screen.d dir inside your chroot
20:24	your client chroot should be in /opt/ltsp/
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21:05	<jcastro> http://stompbox.typepad.com/blog/2008/06/the-perfect-thi.html
21:05	would love some comments from people using ltsp!
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21:07	<jcastro> jammcq: speak of the devil!
21:07	<jammcq> hey jcastro
21:07	<jcastro> http://stompbox.typepad.com/blog/2008/06/the-perfect-thi.html
21:07	leave a comment please!
21:09	<jammcq> wow, way cool
21:09	is there really a desktop Eee ?
21:09	<jcastro> they'll be available soonish
21:09	<jammcq> wow
21:10	<jcastro> it even /looks/ like a thin client
21:10	<jammcq> yes, I wonder if Erick and Ron know about it
21:10	<X0d_of_N0d> funny, we have looked at this exact same thing
21:10	we have a couple of guys here who got eepcs
21:11	<jcastro> X0d_of_N0d: I knew I wasn't the only one to think "that would be an awesome thin client!"
21:11	<X0d_of_N0d> I believe the only thing we wanted different was to strip out the hd
21:11	<jcastro> right
21:12	<X0d_of_N0d> currently we're using asus cubes for the job
21:12	<jcastro> I am hoping it's a typical 1.8" laptop drive
21:12	so we can rip it out and use it for laptop backup drives
21:12	<X0d_of_N0d> because our boss mandated "1600x1200 dvi"
21:12	yup
21:13	what cad software are you using?
21:13	<jcastro> jammcq: they apparently will come with vesa mounts so you can just mount it on the back of an LCD
21:13	X0d_of_N0d: CATIA and unigraphics NX
21:13	<X0d_of_N0d> how are those working for you?
21:13	<jcastro> not to be confused with NX like the X proxy
21:13	<X0d_of_N0d> we've got NX5 and Pro/E and both are a pain in the ASSS
21:14	<jcastro> unigraphics works well, not a fan of catia
21:14	<jammcq> jcastro: I just got home from Rick's little programmers mtg
21:14	<X0d_of_N0d> printing not a problem?
21:15	<jcastro> X0d_of_N0d: coursework doesn't require printing, so I don't know
21:15	also, I don't work there anymore so I don't know what they've been doing for the last 6 months, other than they're still using ltsp
21:15	jammcq: how did that go?
21:18	<jammcq> it was fun. only 6 people showed up
21:18	<jcastro> yeah but was it 6 people you could learn from? :)
21:18	<jammcq> well, Flav was there, so I'd say YES
21:19	<jcastro> heh
21:20	<ryudo> someone knows that the firefox + flash consume so many resources from the server?
21:20	<X0d_of_N0d> firefox + flash ALWAYS consume tons of resources on any system
21:21	firefox 3 is MUCH better, but flash always sucks
21:22	<ryudo> :{ i try use ff3
21:22	and the consume still high
21:22
21:22	I have a server ltsp 5 (athlon 3700 + 4gb 80 GB SATAII) with 20 clients and the processor is a 100% use all the time due to the large use of flash + firefox
21:22	<X0d_of_N0d> block youtube
21:22	<jcastro> if it makes you feel better I'm using flash 10 and it's still pretty terrible
21:22	<ryudo> google translator sorry
21:23	<X0d_of_N0d> we've got 3gz quad xeon
21:23	we just deal with the problem
21:23	<ryudo> i not test gnashI have not tested the gnash, is that it improves the performace?
21:23	<X0d_of_N0d> unless you're down to work on the gnash project, I'd say your only choices are thow hardware at it or deal
21:24	last time I checked gnash was too bugy to use
21:24	maybe it's changed
21:24	<jcastro> swfdec has worked for me on youtube
21:24	<X0d_of_N0d> unfortunately it's a moving target, flash is always adding new crap... so fast flash can't even keep up with itself
21:24	jcastro: that's actually cool to know
21:26	<ryudo> I will buy a new server ... that will solve the problem? Core 2 Quad Q6600 + 4GB DDR2
21:26	<jcastro> I doubt it
21:26	<X0d_of_N0d> I dunno, more procs is usually better
21:27	<ryudo> humm i have another problem
21:27	<X0d_of_N0d> but there have been times we've used far over 4GB
21:27	<ryudo> my terminals have less memory
21:27	<X0d_of_N0d> your terminals don't matter
21:27	<ryudo> 64 mb celeron 333
21:27	<X0d_of_N0d> no problem
21:28	<ryudo> and my terminals crash all time wich ff and openoffice (pixmaps cache)
21:28	<X0d_of_N0d> what?
21:28	hum... what video cards/drivers are you using?
21:30	<ryudo> read http://www.mille-xterm.org/en/TerminalMemoryUsage
21:30	<X0d_of_N0d> ryudo: are you sure it's firefox and openoffice that are the problem?
21:30	<ryudo> onboard intel video cyberblade :(
21:30	<X0d_of_N0d> or is that just what everyone uses all the time?
21:30	<ryudo> many software , like evince freeze the terminals
21:30	Xorg run out of resource because low memory
21:31	this problem not have solution
21:31	:(
21:31	<X0d_of_N0d> hum...
21:31	you can't double the ram?
21:31	you're using ganglia to watch your ram usage?
21:32	<ryudo> yes, but the terminals are old and need to check that meeting, DIMM modules compatible
21:33	<X0d_of_N0d> hum...
21:33	how many boxes?
21:33	<ryudo> I see terminal in the consumption of memory of Xorg using the program xrestop
21:33	how many box = how many terminals/pcs ?
21:34	<X0d_of_N0d> oh, cool
21:34	<ryudo> sorry i not speak english xod :(
21:34	<X0d_of_N0d> yeah
21:35	<ryudo> currently 22 computers, but due to problems of performance (high use of cpu) we are operating with 14 computers
21:35	<X0d_of_N0d> If your boxes have extra slots I'd suggest grabbing the ram from one and dropping it into the other
21:35	well there you go
21:35	drop down to 11 with 128 mb ram per box...
21:36	...if they have open slots
21:36	<ryudo> I will upgrade the memory wich more 256 DIMM
21:36	<X0d_of_N0d> that should be fine
21:36	<ryudo> but i have another problem
21:36	<X0d_of_N0d> anything over 512 would be way overkill
21:37	ok
21:37	<ryudo> the terminals have a internal video onboard , it have 1 MB of videoram
21:37	its no enough for 1024x768
21:37	<X0d_of_N0d> do they have a slot for a pci videocard?
21:37	or even better, agp?
21:38	<ryudo>
21:38	I do not remember how many pci slot have each PC
21:39	:{
21:39	<X0d_of_N0d> all you need is one
21:39	<ryudo> no ... the Pcs dont have agp slot :(
21:39	<X0d_of_N0d> or two if you don't have an onboard nic
21:40	<ryudo>
21:40	I use computers in some network card off-board (onboard burned)
21:40	google translator dumb ehehhe
21:40	:{
21:40	<X0d_of_N0d> you can get pci video cards for $15-$20, no problem
21:40	<ryudo> i not living in USA
21:40	i living in brasil
21:40	<X0d_of_N0d> you have a pci card with a burned rom
21:41	where at?
21:41	<ryudo> http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-75527920-_JM
21:41	<X0d_of_N0d> my brother-in-law comes from there
21:41	yeah, no problem
21:41	<ryudo> i will buy this model
21:41	<X0d_of_N0d> 12 for $5 each?
21:42	50 for 12?
21:42	<ryudo> I understand that with these cards, onboard video (1MB), the performance of the video is very weak (in the slow movement of windows)
21:43	50 reais = aprox 32 dolares :O
21:43	<X0d_of_N0d> what quantity of these video cards to you get for $50
21:44	<ryudo> i need buy 12 cards ... but the video performace is increase ?
21:44	<X0d_of_N0d> oh yeah, and those are well supported
21:44	those'll work pretty well
21:44	they just seem so expensive...
21:44	<ryudo>
21:44	currently the handling of windows is slow and uncomfortable ...
21:44	<X0d_of_N0d> I'd think $15 USD
21:45	<ryudo> yes...very expensive :{
21:45	look this DIMM module
21:45	<X0d_of_N0d> but nvidia is very well supported
21:46	?
21:46	<ryudo> http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-75325409-memoria-dimm-512-mb-pc133-frete-gratissegurogarantia-1-ano-_JM
21:46	i dunno
21:46	:{
21:46	<X0d_of_N0d> hum...
21:46	<ryudo> 34 dolares
21:47	:{ expensive...
21:47	<X0d_of_N0d> well, they aren't really made anymore...
21:47	If you came here and went to the computer recycling center you could get these for free, or $10
21:47	but you gotta pay what you gotta pay...
21:48	I've gotta roll, best of luck to you
21:48	<ryudo> http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-76265995-memoria-256mb-dimm-pc133-frete-gratis-aproveite-_JM
21:48	<X0d_of_N0d> verify that the ram will fit your board before you buy it, other than that there's not much you can do
21:49	how much again?
21:49	<ryudo> hum 35 reais = 20 dolares :O
21:49	expensive :{
21:50	<X0d_of_N0d> I'd say get 1x(256+video card)
21:50	<ryudo> thank you X0d :)
21:50	<X0d_of_N0d> if that works, get the rest... otherwise get 512s
21:50	<ryudo> you are american ?
21:50	<X0d_of_N0d> yeah
21:50	<ryudo> :)
21:50	<X0d_of_N0d> or something like that
21:50	<ryudo> use pci video card increase video performace ?
21:50	windows moves..
21:50	<X0d_of_N0d> oh yeah
21:51	over what you got, should work pretty well
21:51	I used to play quake on that card
21:51	<ryudo> using the onboard VGA wich 1 MB VRAM
21:51	<X0d_of_N0d> back in highschool...
21:51	<ryudo> the performace is soo crapy !
21:51	i810
21:51	:(
21:51	<X0d_of_N0d> yeah
21:51	hum...
21:51	yeah
21:51	<ryudo> hehe quake is cool :D
21:51	<X0d_of_N0d> that video card should help you out, try one and see how it does
21:52	the video card alone might take care of things
21:52	Idunno
21:52	alright, later
21:52	<ryudo> humm
21:52	see you soon !
21:52	:D
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