IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 6 May 2014 (all times are UTC)
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| 12:24 | <gp> Will USB speakers work with LTSP clients?
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| 12:28 | Or maybe a USB sound card
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| 12:50 | <jmilot> Hi, i have some problem with sound
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| 12:51 | I search why sometimes sound works and why sometimes not
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| 12:52 | the problem appears only with one thin client
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| 12:55 | <||cw> gp_: as long as the client has a driver for it, I don't see why not
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| 12:57 | <jmilot> the sound doesn't work every time
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| 12:57 | i don't knwo what to do to solve this problem
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| 13:13 | <jmilot> could it be link to a bug in debian ?
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| 13:17 | <gp_> thanks
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| 13:26 | <||cw> jmilot: is the sound driver on the client itself working every time?
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| 13:26 | <jmilot> how i can see it ?
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| 13:28 | <||cw> try to play a sound locally? used to be able to cat /dev/random to a dsp device and get white noise. been years since i have to diag sound issues though
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| 13:31 | <jmilot> i have this :
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| 13:31 | root@ltsp466:/dev/snd# ls by-path controlC0 hwC0D2 pcmC0D0c pcmC0D0p pcmC0D1p pcmC0D2c seq timer
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| 13:34 | how i can cat to a dsp device ?
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| 13:42 | <||cw> do you have speaker-test ?
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| 13:48 | <Chap> Is epoptes the current favorite for remote client viewing?
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| 14:01 | <alkisg> piet: hi
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| 14:03 | <jmilot> i make this change : -L module-suspend-on-idle \ add in /usr/share/ltsp/ltsp-init-common, then after reboot sound works
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| 14:29 | <willou> hello
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| 14:30 | <sebd> hello, topic proposal link is broken
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| 14:32 | <alkisg> Hi, yeah the whole ltsp infrastructure lacks maintainers :)
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| 14:33 | <willou> I just a question please, is possible to use ltsp without nfs for prevent to lag and networks break. I want a solution to simply load the file system and apps in RAM ( rdesktop, iceweasel, .. )
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| 14:34 | <alkisg> willou: which distribution?
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| 14:35 | <willou> Debian 7
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| 14:36 | <alkisg> vagrantc has submitted a script that loads the nbd image in RAM
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| 14:36 | Check ltsp-trunk, and copy it to your initramfs
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| 14:39 | <willou> ok thank you, and where can I find the vagrantc script?
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| 14:39 | <alkisg> !ltsp-trunk
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| 14:39 | <ltsp> ltsp-trunk: The LTSP code is at https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk
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| 14:41 | <willou> great thank you so much !!!!
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| 14:41 | <alkisg> willou: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/view/head:/client/Debian/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-bottom/ltsp
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| 14:41 | if [ "$LTSP_NBD_TO_RAM" = "true" ]; then
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| 14:41 | <sebd> Last year I configured a Debian LTSP server for a max 15 current users organisation using XFCE4. Works fine. Now I am asked to install 2 distinct networks with about 70 current users each. I guess I should use the LTSP-Cluster project. But I see no evolution since 2010. Is the LTSP-Cluster project is still up ?
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| 14:42 | <alkisg> I don't think it's maintained
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| 14:42 | Why not go for ltsp fat clients instead?
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| 14:42 | !fatclients
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| 14:42 | <ltsp> fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 14:42 | <sebd> Ok let's check fatclients
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| 14:43 | <Chap> Or *really* big servers :)
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| 14:43 | We have a few that don't blink at 20 users... but that's not 70.
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| 14:43 | (actually, our old server didn't blink at 20 users; the new one scoffs)
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| 14:44 | <alkisg> !flash
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| 14:44 | <ltsp> flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
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| 14:44 | <alkisg> It's hard to give 2 Gbps to each client....
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| 14:44 | <Chap> True.
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| 14:44 | <alkisg> Fat client have big benefits over thin ones
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| 14:44 | <Chap> alkisg: Dude yesterday afternoon was experiencing same NBD problem I was. Doesn't look like he said much after I had to log off.
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| 14:45 | I still think it's NBD related b/c a restart of the NBD server fixes the issue.
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| 14:45 | (but since I can't get NBD transactionlog to work I don't know what to file iun the bug)
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| 14:45 | <alkisg> Chap: net-eth0.conf is created when you get an IP
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| 14:45 | NBD is much later on
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| 14:46 | <Chap> The evidence is to the contrary :(
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| 14:46 | <alkisg> The problem is that /run/net-eth0.conf isn't there.
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| 14:46 | So, that surely affects your nbd connection later on
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| 14:46 | If you don't have anything in /run, as you say, that's a very big issue
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| 14:46 | Don't expect the system to work with that
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| 14:46 | <Chap> heh
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| 14:47 | <alkisg> And then, sometimes you do have things there, so it's a race condition about /run
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| 14:47 | Don't even think of troubleshooting other things, before you solve that part...
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| 14:48 | <Chap> Gotchya. I'll create an LTSP bug as "race condition with /run"
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| 14:48 | <alkisg> Whatever
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| 14:48 | <Chap> Fun. I have another doozy that I'm tracking down/reproducing; more in a bit.
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| 14:48 | <alkisg> I don't think anyone will work on that if you file it in ltsp without proof that it's ltsp related
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| 14:49 | <Chap> Can you suggest an alternate package? udev ?
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| 14:49 | <alkisg> If you want to make sure it's not nbd related, just for you, just switch to NFS
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| 14:49 | It's very easy
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| 14:49 | <sebd> For 15 current users, all thin clients, gigabit ethernet, 16 MB RAM, Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E31230 @ 3.20GHz and XFCE4 for all, server can manage as long as the users do not try watching more than one flash video at a time. I had issues with large LibreOffice files also. And large QGis files.
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| 14:49 | <alkisg> sebd: what are you client specs? cpu, ram?
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| 14:49 | <Chap> sebd: Yes to libre & flash; don't know QGis.
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| 14:56 | <sebd> alkisg: client specs : disk-less fan-less Atom N2800 @ 1.86GHz, 2GB RAM
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| 14:56 | and old PCs too
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| 14:57 | + occasional X2Go sessions from outside (ADSL)
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| 14:57 | <||cw> N2800's not that much of a slouch, tried fat clients?
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| 14:58 | 2GB might not be enough ram for gis though
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| 14:59 | <sebd> Ok, I will go for fat clients, sounds simple.
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| 15:00 | <||cw> worth evaluating anyway
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| 15:01 | <sebd> ||cw: I was wondering how is the X server graphical memory used by such apps (QGis, LibreOffice). Would 2 more GB RAM client-side change something ?
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| 15:03 | (still as thin clients only)
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| 15:03 | <Chap> Can epoptes be used to connect to clients on a remote, accessible LTSP server?
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| 15:07 | <willou> I'm add 4 line to script ( without if ) ltsp init but there is no change
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| 15:07 | <||cw> sebd: depends on the workload. we use autocad on 2GB ram on some systems here, but the cad files are pretty small ones
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| 15:11 | <sebd> Mmmm but maintaining fat clients means maintaining 2 application collections (thin on the server + fat in the chroot) - because I will need to keep the thin client option for the oldest PCs on the network. And for the X2Go remote sessions. I will need to keep them in sync so to avoid automatic Firefox version / extension version mismatches for example.
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| 15:12 | anyway, still the best option.
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| 15:16 | <||cw> the fat can share the /home
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| 15:16 | <sebd> not /usr
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| 15:16 | because it would also need /var and /etc
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| 15:18 | <||cw> well, you /could/ ... technically...
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| 15:21 | <Chap> For me, easy epoptes on remote LTSP server: ssh -X servername epoptes
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| 15:21 | <sebd> I could share /usr and mount it on the fat clients, but what about /etc and /var ? Instictively I would say it would contain process-specific information such as /var/run. And host-specific-information such as /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-*
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| 15:23 | I guess nobody ever tried doing that.
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| 15:51 | <||cw> /var/run would be session specific, so you don't want to mount that. /etc doens't tend to change that much
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| 15:51 | <sebd> ok
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| 15:55 | <alkisg> !ltsp-pnp | echo sebd:
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| 15:55 | <ltsp> sebd: ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 15:55 | <alkisg> With ltsp-pnp ,you only install the applications once
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| 18:35 | <shut2000> Hi all
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| 18:35 | I'm sorry any speak russian?
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| 18:37 | <shut2000> ok - any body is here?
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| 18:43 | <alkisg> !ask
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| 18:43 | <ltsp> ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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| 19:43 | <elias_a> alkisg: Απλά πράγματα είναι μερικές φορές τα πιο περίπλοκα αυτά ...
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| 19:43 | :D
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| 20:28 | <alkisg> elias_a: haha, nice ;)
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| 21:25 | <Ark74> hi guys!
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| 21:27 | i'm having a weird issue, i have upgraded a 10/100 switch to a 10/100/1000, there is only one gigabit card on the network (besides the server) and that machine is the one with worst perfomance on a video streaming test
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| 21:28 | <||cw> Ark74: did you enable the direct_x option?
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| 21:28 | <Ark74> all the other 10/100 machines have a similar performance.
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| 21:28 | yep
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| 21:28 | <||cw> LDM_DIRECTX=true, right?
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| 21:28 | <Ark74> that's the onw
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| 21:28 | *one
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| 21:29 | <||cw> k, what kind of video, and is the player app XV capable?
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| 21:29 | <Ark74> i'm thinking if it could be flow control related, but it doesn't make sense
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| 21:30 | AFAIK, the performance should be the same as the 10/100 nics
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| 21:30 | <||cw> the server nic is actually report 1G full duplex right?
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| 21:30 | <Ark74> yeah its full duplex
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| 21:30 | <||cw> and the client?
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| 21:31 | try a bandwidth test such as iperf?
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| 21:31 | <Ark74> i used epoptes on a one-one test server client, and i gor speeds 980MBps
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| 21:31 | Mbps
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| 21:32 | thats gigabit speed, but when streaming is really bad :-/
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| 21:32 | i use vlc for both streaming and playing
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| 21:32 | and that machine has xv support
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| 21:35 | i missed the chance to do a iperf test with all the machines at the same time
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| 21:35 | maybe i could see the real speed that delivers to the gigabit nic when streaming
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| 21:38 | on the other hand i have a machine that is not xv capable, and that is a real pain in the .... to stream video, since it would use x11 to redender video
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| 21:38 | that generates a lot of traffic
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| 21:40 | ||cw any advice when streaming video?
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| 21:41 | i'm thinking that maybe there is something lighter than vlc
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| 21:46 | <||cw> mplayer is about as light as you can get, and with the -vo option you can force xv or any other .
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| 21:46 | generally, it's hard to make thin clients play video decently
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| 21:48 | <Ark74> i like the way the screen on VNC/Epoptes is sincronzed on every machine, but it's difficult to get that with streaming
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| 21:49 | each macine handle the data differently so there are some delays from one to another
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| 21:51 | <vagrantc> use fat clients for streaming video... it's not realistic to use thin clients for video streaming.
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| 21:51 | or localapps
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| 21:51 | <vagrantc> unless the video is of very low quality, and even then...
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| 21:51 | <Ark74> i'll go for localapps
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| 21:52 | fat clients admin like having to admin N number of machines
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| 21:52 | mplayer+localapps that should do it
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| 21:52 | <alkisg> LTSP fat clients are the same, admin-wise, as LTSP thin clients
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| 21:52 | They're just "all localapps"
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| 21:53 | Still netbooted, diskless etc
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| 21:53 | <Ark74> mmmm, i really should complete reading the docs, not only the things that i need :P
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| 21:54 | <alkisg> !fatclients
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| 21:54 | <ltsp> fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 21:54 | <alkisg> !ltsp-pnp
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| 21:54 | <ltsp> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 21:55 | <vagrantc> outside of LTSP, fat clients are sometimes referred to as disked machines, which is why i didn't like the term for use with LTSP
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| 21:55 | <Ark74> still localapps will do it for it, as i've told before the machines on the network are really old
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| 21:55 | <alkisg> Let's change the term then, many people do that mistake... :)
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| 21:55 | <vagrantc> this comes down to finding a better term ...
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| 21:56 | <alkisg> Thick?
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| 21:56 | <vagrantc> i had proposed "Diskless Workstations" ... but disklessworkstations.com is kind of thin-client focused...
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| 21:57 | modest clients
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| 21:57 | <Ark74> "modest" :)
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| 21:57 | <vagrantc> sturdy clients
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| 21:57 | <alkisg> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diskless_node
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| 21:58 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_client
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| 22:05 | <vagrantc> that chart in Diskless_node sure spells it out
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