IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Channel log from 15 December 2008 (all times are UTC)

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04:05	<FlyOnTheWall> does anybody know what would be the preferable way of configuring client-specific Xorg options in LTSP5?
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04:10	<cyberorg> FlyOnTheWall, see the doc link in the topic
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04:21	<FlyOnTheWall> cyberorg: well, I did take a look at that, and adjusting the horz/vert refresrates and syncs didn't work
04:22	<cyberorg> there is an option to use custom xorg.conf too
04:22	<FlyOnTheWall> I tried the <tftboot>/ltsp/<arch> approach, aswell as the /opt/ltsp/<arch>/etc/lts.conf and rebuilding the client
04:22	hm..
04:23	I guess I'll try that then
04:23	thanks
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04:53	<Appiah> Does anyone know if Ubuntu 8.10 alternate LTSP uses xinetd or inetd ?
04:54	<cyberorg> Appiah, inetd
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04:56	<Appiah> In the mailing list someone had the same problem I have here
04:56	Clients not getting an IP from the DHCP server
04:56	it seams limited
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04:56	<Appiah> and they fixed it with limit in xinet
04:56	Gotta find out how to do it in inetd ;)
04:57	err i mean
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06:00	<schregge> hi
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06:03	<schregge> i am not sure, but how good should be the client video card? I have some Thintune M (Via 533 Mhz, s3 or trident video card) and the 2d video performance is quite bad. lagging during scrolling an resizing, very bad videoperformnce (tiny flash window, but still very slow). LTSP Server is Q6600 4 GB Ram, GBit Ethernet...
06:07	<wigwam> hi
06:08	what do you mean about this err please? http://sspos-melnik.cz/chyba.jpg
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06:14	<Appiah> schregge: just make sure the xorg on client is using the right driver
06:15	wigwam: connection refused ...
06:16	I think its when the nbd tries to mount
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06:16	<Appiah> is someone playing with ltsppbot or does it time out alot?
06:18	<schregge> they are using trident/nsc, the only driver that works. But the performance ist still bad. The resolution ist 1024x768 and on some Clients 1280x1024. Do i need a video card with more ram?
06:20	<Appiah> doesn't the VESA driver worker?
06:20	work*
06:20	<alkisg> schregge: I didn't see all the conversation, but on some old S3 virge cards I had more than 300% improvement by forcing color depth = 16 bit (instead of the default 24 bit).
06:21	<Appiah> 300% O_O
06:21	<alkisg> (and of course I had LDM_DIRECTX=true)
06:21	<schregge> ok, i will try that.
06:22	<alkisg> Appiah: yes, I had the same cards on another lab and it was fine (full screen video with about 20 fps), and on a new lab it was very bad (about 5 fps), and after 4-5 hours of testing I found out this was to blame...
06:22	<Appiah> oh my
06:24	<rjune_> !seen ogra
06:24	<ltspbot`> rjune_: ogra was last seen in #ltsp 3 days, 10 hours, 55 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: <ogra> hey
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06:31	<polytan> hi guys
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06:46	<EAG> clear
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06:46	<EAG> hmm
06:46	<Appiah> ;)
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07:11	<EAG> hmm, does anyone use mplayer?
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07:12	<EAG> I cant get it to send video output to my display
07:12	for some reason....
07:13	adding "mplayer -display 192.168.1.100:6.0 [filename] should be enough right?
07:15	DISPLAY=192.168.1.100:6.0 is what I get from env \|grep DISPLAY
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07:41	<pasmen> hi
07:41	i have a question regarding kernel parameters for machines booting via etherboot
07:42	i'm using ubuntu 8.10 ltsp 5 and i would like to disable the splash option (to see the messages output)
07:42	<stgraber> warren: did you try your screen-session.d scripts ?
07:42	<pasmen> i guess i can only add parameters using option 129 of dhcpd, but how to remove one?
07:43	<stgraber> I found a potential logic problem in XS00-setvars
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07:44	<alkisg> pasmen: do you have to use etherboot or can you also use gpxe ?
07:45	<pasmen> for some devices, i'm forced to use etherboot method, otherwise i'm using pxe where possible
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07:46	<Appiah> EAG: try DISPLAY=myip:0 mplayer filename
07:46	<stgraber> it seems that if /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf is missing which basically happens the first time screen-session.d is called it'll not add "-config blah" to the X parameters
07:46	<alkisg> pasmen: it's a little difficult for etherboot clients, AFAIK you have to modify some scripts in the chroot. Can you try to modify /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf so that it always offers pxelinux.0 instead of nbi.img, and see if your clients boot with it?
07:47	<pasmen> alkisg: hmm, i'm just looking at gpxe, didn't know that one
07:48	<alkisg> pasmen: if you use a cd / floppy / hd, then you may use gpxe...
07:48	...which in turn loads pxelinux instead of nbi.img
07:48	<pasmen> yeah, we are using floppies, and i guess gpxe is the right for that purpose
07:48	ok, i'll try that one, thanks a lot
07:49	<alkisg> pasmen: there's an option "gpxe:all-drivers" in the middle of the list, you may select it if you have different cards
07:49	(in rom-o-matic, i mean)
07:49	pasmen: and then, to pass kernel parameters, you modify /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
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07:53	<wiscados> Hi there, does LTSP have the ablility to dynamically give and take rwx permissions?
07:53	<alkisg> pasmen: did you actually succeed in passing parameters with option 129 of dhcpd.conf? I wasn't able to do it....
07:53	<pasmen> alkisg: i did edit pxelinux.cfg/default, it works for PXE clients, i'll try it with gPXE now
07:54	well, i actually did succeed with that option
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07:54	<alkisg> pasmen: how did you do it? do you have a sample dhcpd.conf?
07:54	<pscheie> morning all
07:54	<pasmen> i have to pass NIC parameter for one device having strange realtek card
07:54	it's exactly as it is written in the wiki
07:54	i basically copied/pasted that
07:54	<alkisg> pasmen: with option 129 for etherboot, I mean... what wiki?
07:55	<pasmen> wait... i'll give a link
07:55	alkisg: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/KernelOptions
07:57	<alkisg> Hmm.... I hadn't seen this one... I was trying another one from the etherboot wiki, with option declaration etc.. thanks!
07:57	pasmen: then maybe you could just pass nosplash?
07:58	<pasmen> well, that would be option :-)
07:58	didn't try that one
07:58	anyway, as i'm looking as gPXE, i like it
07:59	so i guess i'll stick to that way
07:59	<alkisg> pasmen: yeap, it's the newer version of etherboot, if it supports your NICs it's better to use this
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08:00	<pasmen> the majority of nics are rtl8139 that support it
08:00	so i think there won't be any major problem
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08:05	<EAG> Appiah: it seems to be some kind of problem with XVideo
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08:05	<Appiah> tried setting a different video output? -vo
08:05	<EAG> yep... the only one working is -vo x11
08:05	<Appiah> ok
08:06	<EAG> it would be great to see if mplayer could give me fullscreen video that is good enough to watch :)
08:07	<Appiah> so you cant fullscreen?
08:08	<EAG> not with x11
08:08	VLC does play, but the video output is really choppy :(
08:09	I think it has to do with the XVideo and shared memory errors there as well
08:10	or am I too optimistic about having flawless fullscreen video with a ltsp-setup?
08:11	<Appiah> what driver is the client using for X?
08:12	<EAG> fglrx
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08:24	<six2one> hey everyone, i have a terminal freezing problem...where the users entire session is hung (rest of users/server ok) but its not showing any issues in all the common logs....any tips on where i can look to troubleshoot this?
08:24	its an 8.04 ltsp 5 install
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08:25	<_UsUrPeR_> six2one: might I recommend wire-sharking your ethernet port with a single client running?
08:26	Seeing what process/network transfer it stops on would help
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08:29	<six2one> _UsUrPeR_: its always random(ish)....i have 5 users running full gnome desktop sessions and one will freeze (can be diff user each time) this might be after several hours maybe a day or so. i HAD the official flash 9 plugin installed and i just removed it last night...i think npviewer was doing some weird things. all the users run are firefox, evince (for viewing pdfs) and occasionally ooo for a min to type something up. there is also cups p
08:30	<_UsUrPeR_> ok, so you had cups, flash and firefox installed as localapps?
08:30	<six2one> not running as local apps...just on the server...local apps arent being used on my config
08:31	so they are local from the server perspective
08:32	<_UsUrPeR_> at that rate, they are just "not localapps" ;)
08:32	it would be local to the server though, yes
08:32	<six2one> haha, sorry for the redundant redundancy there
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08:35	<six2one> but when these sessions hang they really hang....ctrl alt bkspce will do nothing at all, and when they log in again the firefox session is hung as well and i gotta kill it manually
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08:36	<six2one> so i was like "what the f" and i just started tracing it to firefox....so i removed that POS flash9 plugin last night (npviewer was ALWAYS doing somthing, nearly always towards the top of top, for every user)
08:36	<_UsUrPeR_> six2one: what client are you running?
08:36	<six2one> like hardware terminal?
08:37	<_UsUrPeR_> yeah
08:37	<six2one> cli 6500k
08:37	they are 1ghz edens with 512mb ram
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08:38	<six2one> pretty heavy specs for dumb terminals (has dual vid support)
08:39	HOWEVER, they didnt work until i updated the chroot enviro
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08:39	<_UsUrPeR_> huh.
08:39	six2one: what network hardware is between the client/server?
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08:39	<EAG> can u get fullscreen video wihtout problems with that cli6500k?
08:39	<six2one> its a gigabit dell switch, nothing too fancy
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08:40	<six2one> EAG: yes, actually they work great....fast as hell....BUT i wouldnt have gotten them if i had a chouice
08:40	EAG: we had a credit with CLI and i would have rather supported disklessworkstations if i could have
08:40	<EAG> I have a similar hardware setup, but I cant get it to work properly :(
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08:41	<EAG> I use a fujitsu-siemens futro 500
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08:41	<six2one> mine didnt hmm...mine wouldnt start x after all the boot routines were finished
08:41	then i updated the chroot and it fixed it right up
08:41	https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/UpdatingChroot <-- this is what i followed
08:42	<EAG> btw, do I need to run a ltsp-update-image if I make changes in the chrooted xorg.conf?
08:42	<johnny> yes
08:42	<EAG> ok
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08:43	<six2one> OH! are you running an i386 chroot? my server install is 64bit
08:43	i guess thats an important factor
08:45	i still wish i didnt have this freezing problem with them though
08:45	but i honestly think it could be adobe flash
08:45	<EAG> bah I hate packet loss :( I am having trouble typing here... thats whyt
08:45	<six2one> and i just removed it last night and installed the foss one and have yet to hear a complaint
08:48	is anyone on here using xfce on their terminals?
08:48	<_UsUrPeR_> six2one: have you ever had more than one client freeze at a time?
08:48	<six2one> no
08:48	only one at a time so far
08:49	<_UsUrPeR_> hmm. And you have 5 hooked up? Are you running an internal IP scheme?
08:49	<six2one> yes, there are 5 terms active and its a 2nic setup
08:50	<_UsUrPeR_> Is it possible that another device on that network is acquiring the same IP address as one of your clients?
08:51	<six2one> i will say probably not, the terminals are on their own physical network (as well as logically) and i would say thats unlikely
08:51	HOWEVER i will check my dhcpd logs right now and verify that i am not a liar :-)
08:51	<alkisg> I'm (too) having some freezing problems with some clients. They pass hours of memtest fine, but they completely hang if I run netperf in a TC console (and of course not only then). I saw some errors, I think from the TP-Link driver, just before 4-5 of the clients hang (not at exactly the same time). So, question: can bad cabling really hang the TC kernels?
08:52	Or it could be a bad driver issue?
08:52	<EAG> where does the xorg-logs go? I would like to investigate "Xorg.0.log"
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08:53	<_UsUrPeR_> when one of the clients freezes, is it possible to switch to another TTY windows? (i.e. CTRL+ALT+F2) Do you have that set in your lts.conf?
08:53	<alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: no, they're completely frozen, even REISUB doesn't work
08:54	<six2one> mine as well...ctrl+alt+bkspace doesnt do anything
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08:54	<six2one> also, here is the result of my dhcp check....i am checking on those leases right now
08:54	http://paste.ubuntu.com/85619/
08:55	<_UsUrPeR_> six2one: mystery :/ It sounds like there's more of a network issue than a hardware issue on the client. These symptoms can be replicated by removing the network cable from the back of a client while it's running.
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08:55	<_UsUrPeR_> brb
08:56	<alkisg> In my case, the cables are surely to blame (and maybe the drivers), but I was wandering why would bad cabling completely freeze the clients, instead of giving them nbd errors...
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08:56	<polytan> I will try to use ltsp and ssi cluster on my clients
08:56	so the power off all the clients will be used
08:56	if I have easy and interesting results, you will know them
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08:57	<polytan> for example, on 1 server (8 cores) + 14 ltsp clients with core2duo, wy can have an equivalent machine of 36 cores+all free ram
09:02	<Guest25837> Hi all, I'm new to ltsp, I using ltsp 4.2 on SuSE Linux 10.0 and I tay to install a local app. I have an issue with the libraries that I must install. I have modified the file /etc/ld.so.conf and I ran ldconfig but my local apps don't see anymore the new installed libraries. I put the librearies under /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/local/lib. Can anyone hep me?
09:02	<johnny> few run ltsp 4
09:02	it's hard to find help for any modifications of it
09:02	it has several security vulnerabilities
09:02	that will not be fixed
09:03	<six2one> ltsp4 is a PITA compared to 5
09:03	its awesome that it actually works, but the way it handles things is kinda rough
09:04	<Guest25837> What you mean?
09:05	<johnny> it is broken in many ways
09:05	and nobody works on it
09:05	and few people use it who come into this room
09:06	<six2one> at a previous employer we still use 4 servers running 4.2 on FEDORA (gahh!) and needless to say when it breaks it will be ltsp5 on ubuntu
09:07	i dont even know if i got local apps to work in ltsp4
09:08	<Guest25837> but the documentation says yes
09:09	<six2one> its probably possible, but its very specific on the config for each app you wanna use...i am in no way an expert on this subject....there are a few people in here that are, however... gadi? you in here?
09:11	i asked him about it before for doing it in ltsp5 and needless to say he made it kinda clear that i would be better off spending time doing something else, like arts and crafts...or sewing
09:12	<cliebow> ltsp4.2 still rocks for me!
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09:12	<six2one> i dont disagree with that statement at all
09:13	in fact on a logical standpoint i think ltsp4 made more sense than 5 (for example /etc/dhcp/ was actually where the dhcp lived
09:13	<cliebow> for basic connection anyway..
09:13	<six2one> and other small things
09:13	<Guest25837> but can I use ltsp5 on SuSELinux 10.0?
09:14	<cliebow> there have been some people here working on 5 for suse..
09:14	<six2one> yea, i think there is a special thing for suse maybe
09:14	i cant comment fully on that, i was done with .rpm based distros as of fedora 5
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09:16	<Guest25837> ok, now I tray it ...
09:16	<EAG> weird... now I get "Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 keyvo: couldn't open the X11 display (192.168.1.100:6)!"
09:16	whats going on... :(
09:16	<Guest25837> see you later...
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09:18	<six2one> eag: are you playing video when you got that? or is X not running at all?
09:18	<EAG> I am trying to play video yes, but the server must be running (I suppose) since I am using the thinclient now
09:19	<six2one> eag: what are u using to play video?
09:19	<EAG> mplayer
09:19	<six2one> eag: go here and take a look http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-659945.html
09:20	eag: sounds similar to what your having happen
09:21	<EAG> well
09:21	<six2one> eag: im reading, is mplayer being run by a user other than the one who started the X display?
09:22	<EAG> its not really mplayer only
09:22	xvinfo -display 192.168.1.100:6
09:22	Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 keyxvinfo: Unable to open display 192.168.1.100:6
09:22	I guess nothing can connect to the server now
09:23	but how can I then have a desktop in front of me now?
09:23	<alkisg> EAG: why do you have to define the display? Isn't it automatically set?
09:23	<six2one> i think the mcookie commnd will let you make those tokens for xauth
09:24	<EAG> alkisg: well, 30 min ago the DISPLAY-variable was set to 192.168.1.100:6
09:24	<warren> stgraber: actually no, I haven't tried them. what is the problem?
09:25	<johnny> EAG, it's ssh tunneled X..
09:25	<six2one> so you are xforwarding?
09:25	wait
09:26	this may be as simple as updating your ssh keys
09:26	one sec
09:27	<CAN-o-SPAM> warren: i e-mailed dave, do you if he is going to try and get in touch with Harald?
09:27	<warren> CAN-o-SPAM: I don't know. He's still here in this channel > airlied
09:27	CAN-o-SPAM: but he's in Australia
09:28	<six2one> eag: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys then do sudo ltsp-update-image
09:28	<EAG> johnny: I have LDM_DIRCETX=true in lts.conf
09:28	<six2one> in that order
09:28	<CAN-o-SPAM> airlied: hello?
09:28	<EAG> six2one: ok, I will try that
09:29	<stgraber> warren: as I said, basically the first time screen-session.d is run, it goes to XS00 which checks for /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf and only if that file exists adds -config to X_ARGS. So making screen-session.d only work the second time it's run as the first time it'll generate the xorg.conf but start X without -config.
09:29	Gadi: ^
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09:38	<warren> stgraber: first time meaning...
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09:39	<jammcq> good morning #ltsp
09:40	<warren> stgraber: oh I see, nothing creates it
09:40	stgraber: perhaps within the first conditional it should be touched?
09:41	<rjune> !j
09:41	<ltspbot`> rjune: "j" is jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:41	<CAN-o-SPAM> hi jam!
09:42	<cliebow> jammcq!!!!!
09:43	<jammcq> hey cliebow
09:43	and rjune
09:43	and CAN-o-SPAM
09:47	<cliebow> ;-]
09:51	!r
09:51	<ltspbot`> cliebow: Error: "r" is not a valid command.
09:51	<cliebow> ltspbot:learn r as rjune!
09:52	!ltspbot:learn r as rjune!
09:52	<ltspbot`> cliebow: Error: "ltspbot:learn" is not a valid command.
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09:55	<warren> Gadi: stgraber: that's fixed then?
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09:59	<EAG> bah
10:00	it seems like my problem is ati-related
10:00	no problem whatsoever to run video with a nvidiacard
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10:02	<hopkinsb> I have a quick question about ltsp if anyone has a min
10:03	is anyone available?
10:05	well if someone comes back and can answer this let me know, my issue is on using LTSP on ubuntu everything appears to work fine except for when the thin client starts pulling the image it gets all the way to the part where it says starting LTSP client and just sits there, not really sure where the issue is and how I can fix it, I think if I can get that working I'll get to the login screen and be ready to go
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10:08	<_UsUrPeR_> Where can I find the ltsp upstream packages?
10:09	<warren> source trees
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10:09	<hopkinsb> has anyone ever seen the thin client just sit there locked up at the part where its starting the LTSP client? I can't figure out where the issue is
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10:10	<hopkinsb> the only deviation I even have is I'm using my windows DCHP server instead of the LTSP but even with that I have it setup right cause its booting and getting the image
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10:20	<EAG> hopkinsb: try to add: all_generic_ide to your pxelinux.cfg/default-file
10:21	that solved problems for me
10:23	<hopkinsb> ok one sec
10:23	so thats the same file that has the splash and quiet commands in it right?
10:26	nope still just sitting at the starting ltsp client and doesn't go further
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10:54	<EAG> where can I find the clients Xorg.0.log?
10:55	I can't find anything about that anywhere
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11:07	<klausade> EAG: look in /var/log/Xorg.0.log on the client
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11:13	<EAG> klausade: it isnt there
11:13	I've looked
11:15	<klausade> EAG: it's there on all my clients, running debian etch.
11:16	<EAG> yes, maybe it is there on your clients, but mine apparently does not write to /var/log/Xorg.0.log
11:17	I know it should be there, thats why I am so confused...
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12:09	<stgraber> warren: I still get an error message from screen_session, it's just too fast for me to read it, I'll have a look.
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12:11	<vagrantc> Ryan52: did one of your recent commits possibly fix the LDM_USERNAME issue?
12:11	<Ryan52> it wasn't a LDM_USERNAME, was it?
12:12	what was the problem?
12:12	<vagrantc> settings LDM_USERNAME is what caused the issue...
12:12	when LDM_USERNAME was set, autologin, guest login and timed login behaved wonky.
12:12	<Ryan52> then maybe. I doubt it did, but it could...:p
12:13	<vagrantc> with the greeter continuing to run while the window manager started ... and eventually the greeter kills the session.
12:13	<Ryan52> ya. it could. I doubt it. but it could.
12:14	<n2o_2k> hello, what is the best way to configure the client to reboot daily ?
12:14	* Ryan52 is just guessing with that problem, since he hasn't gotten to debug the problem yet
12:14	<Ryan52> n2o_2k: add "0 0 * * * root reboot" to /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/crontab (it'll reboot at midnight)
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12:16	<stgraber> warren, vagrantc: Any reason for not having /usr/share/ltsp/ltsp-common-functions sourced in screen_session ?
12:16	<n2o_2k> Ryan52, hum, doesn't look like cron job are running
12:16	<stgraber> I now get a : "/usr/share/ltsp/screen_session: 1: run_parts_list: not found" message
12:16	Gadi: ^
12:17	<warren> stgraber: I did zero work on screen-session
12:17	<n2o_2k> Ryan52, crond is not running on the client
12:17	<Ryan52> oh.
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12:17	<stgraber> warren: ok, so that's either vagrantc or Gadi who replaced my "find" call by run_parts_list
12:18	<_UsUrPeR_> has anyone had any luck with mergedFB in an ubuntu client? I am getting one monitor (the one plugged into the VGA port) working properly, while the other monitor (DVI port) is showing up garbled.
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12:18	<vagrantc> stgraber: don't see why we shouldn't source it
12:18	<Gadi> stgraber: sorry - runing round a bit
12:18	<vagrantc> stgraber: that was me who replaced it, yes.
12:18	<Gadi> run_parts_list is in ltsp-common-functions
12:19	it should have been sourced in screen-x-session, no?
12:19	<stgraber> Gadi: yeah, I know that but ltsp-common-functions isn't sourced from screen_session :)
12:19	Gadi: screen-x-session, yes but not screen_session
12:19	Gadi: and it's called from both
12:19	<Gadi> ah, ok
12:20	<stgraber> ok, so it's indeed a bug, I'll just source it from screen_session too
12:20	<Gadi> sorry - thought it was sourced everywhere
12:20	:)
12:20	<vagrantc> i think i assumed it was sourced as part of ltsp_config
12:21	<stgraber> vagrantc: looks like it's not ...
12:21	<vagrantc> stgraber: yes, that much is clear :)
12:21	<stgraber> ok, fixed and pushed. I guess we should source it from ltsp_config and just drop all the other place where it's sourced
12:22	(btw, ltsp-trunk just reached it's 1k revision)
12:22	<vagrantc> Gadi: i think you did a bunk merege with ltsp-trunk 992 ...
12:23	* Gadi knows and hangs head in shame
12:23	<vagrantc> heh
12:23	ok...
12:23	i wish bzr wasn't brain-dead.
12:23	Gadi: it's really bzr's problem.
12:24	<Gadi> nah - that one was user error
12:24	* Gadi keeps doing things too quickly
12:24	<Gadi> brb
12:25	<vagrantc> no, bzr shouldn't allow you to accidentally re-write histor.
12:25	y
12:26	<Ryan52> "bzr rebase" ftw! :)
12:27	<EAG> do you know if there is something with fglrx and ltsp that makes xvideo-support not working in general?
12:27	* vagrantc only conceptually understands rebasing
12:27	<stgraber> EAG: so you have fglrx installed in your chroot ?
12:29	<EAG> stgraber: yes, if chrooting into it and apt-get install it does the trick, then I do
12:30	I find it impossible to locate any log-files though... where are they stored?
12:30	<stgraber> EAG: /var/log/Xorg.7.log should be available from the thin client
12:30	EAG: you need to enable the root account first though
12:30	<vagrantc> EAG: ltsp-update-image ?
12:31	<EAG> var/log doesnt contain Xorg.X.log
12:31	vagrantc: of course
12:31	<stgraber> EAG: what var/log did you check ? the client or the server one ?
12:31	<EAG> stgraber: the client
12:31	in the chrooted var/log that is?
12:31	<stgraber> no, you need to access it directly from the thin client
12:32	switching to tty1
12:32	* vagrantc notes ltspfs-trunk is at revision 77, and ltsp-trunk at revision 1000
12:32	<stgraber> then login as root
12:32	<EAG> aha, then I need to activate the root account I guess
12:32	<stgraber> you need the root account to be enabled in the chroot first though
12:32	<vagrantc> and ldm-trunk hit 1000 a moderate time ago
12:32	<EAG> I suppose there is a guide for that somewhere?
12:33	<stgraber> vagrantc: I guess ldm-trunk is actualyl a branch of ltsp-trunk while ltspfs-trunk isn't a branch of ltsp-trunk
12:33	<vagrantc> stgraber: yes.
12:33	<warren> we should have started ldm-trunk from scratch
12:33	<stgraber> EAG: it's a parameter of ltsp-build-client, you can also do "passwd -u root && passwd root" in your chroot
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12:34	<EAG> ah, thx
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12:35	<EAG> so the logs only exist in the RAM of the client? sort of speaking...
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12:39	<warren> pscheie: I tried to make a F10 based Live image, it seems to work, except your package needs work
12:39	pscheie: it is pointing at the old location of the .html
12:39	pscheie: and the icon doesn't exist because you are missing the requires that patrice pointed out
12:39	<pscheie> warren, which version of the package did you use?
12:39	<warren> oh
12:39	<pscheie> There are three out on the bugzilla
12:40	<warren> k12linux-quick-start-guide-0.0.3-1
12:40	<pscheie> I fixed the Requires last night but haven't built a new package because I wasn't sure about the hosting thing
12:41	and I couldn't get into my fedorapeople account at the time
12:41	<warren> just upload where you have it at the moment
12:42	<pscheie> ok, hang on, gotta go rebuild it...
12:42	<warren> pscheie: check the patch to the html first
12:42	<pscheie> warren, the license stuff?
12:42	<warren> err
12:42	path
12:43	pscheie: the version I tried is pointing at the old path
12:43	of the html file
12:43	bfeore it was renamed
12:43	<pscheie> the filename changed, but the path didn't
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12:44	* warren looks again
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12:47	<pscheie> warren, where should the file reside if not in /usr/share/ltsp-server-livesetupdocs/ ?
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12:55	<warren> pscheie: dude, you renamed it
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12:55	<warren> pscheie: cp -a docs/* $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_datadir}/k12linux-quick-start-guide/
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12:59	<n2o_2k> does anybody knows how I can get crond to run on the client
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13:02	<_UsUrPeR_> gadi: ping
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13:03	* Gadi grabs the bars of his cage and screams wildly
13:03	<Gadi> _UsUrPeR_: pong
13:03	:)
13:03	<_UsUrPeR_> gadi: hey. Could you let me take a look at the lts.conf you are using with mergedFB?
13:03	<dmhardison> I was interested in perhaps trying to use this project for a computational cluster, the machines have hard drives, but no video cards, and I would rather have them boot to the hard drive and then try to load the image from the ltsp server, is there pre-existing documentation to do this?
13:04	<Gadi> _UsUrPeR_: I dont have it set up right now, but it was 2 params
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13:04	<Gadi> X_OPTION_01 = "\"MergedFB\" \"true\""
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13:04	<_UsUrPeR_> gadi: I'm getting this weird issue where it's showing one monitor ok, but the other is garbled
13:05	<Gadi> X_OPTION_02 = "\"ActiveDevice\" \"CRT,DVI\""
13:05	iirc
13:05	something like that
13:05	<_UsUrPeR_> ok
13:05	what vid card/driver set were you using?
13:05	<Gadi> oh, and of course setting a resolution
13:05	<_UsUrPeR_> course :)
13:05	<Gadi> X_MODE_0 = 1024x768
13:05	or some such
13:06	Via binary for Hardy
13:06	<_UsUrPeR_> ok
13:06	<Gadi> on an 1106:3344
13:06	you may want to set 64MB in your BIOS
13:06	(video that is)
13:07	<_UsUrPeR_> yeah, already done that
13:07	<Gadi> oh, and I play at 16-bit colordepth usually
13:07	<_UsUrPeR_> X_COLOR_DEPTH = "16" ?
13:07	* Gadi nods
13:08	<_UsUrPeR_> XSERVER = "via" ?
13:08	err wrong line :)
13:08	X_OPTION_01 = "\"ActiveDevice\" \"DVI,CRT\""
13:08	X_OPTION_02 = "\"MergedFB\" \"true\""
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13:12	<_UsUrPeR_> gadi: there we go :D
13:12	thanks
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13:12	<Gadi> np
13:13	<stgraber> Gadi: how should I handle the Videoram parameter ?
13:13	Gadi: using screen-session.d
13:13	I'd need to add " VideoRam 8192" to the device section
13:13	<Gadi> ah
13:14	we should add an upstream hack for the param
13:14	and you should have a downstream hack to set the param for your hardware
13:14	its a device hack
13:15	<_UsUrPeR_> according to Warren, this is something we shouldn't even have to do
13:15	it's a bug that the DVI device is not automatically detected
13:16	<Gadi> _UsUrPeR_: not with the new upstream
13:16	<rjune> !g
13:16	<ltspbot`> rjune: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
13:16	<_UsUrPeR_> gadi: ORLY? So it detects now?
13:16	<Gadi> _UsUrPeR_: no - there's no DVI in the current openchrome driver
13:16	warren tells me they are working that out
13:16	I thought you were referring to dual-monitor
13:17	<_UsUrPeR_> Indeed I am
13:17	<Gadi> which our new hacks to upstream LTSP will make nice with xrandr1.2
13:17	<_UsUrPeR_> I thought they were past the DVI thing :/
13:19	gadi: so mergedFB was or was not able to rid you of shadowing?
13:20	* Gadi has not seen shadowing
13:20	<Gadi> but, I have been engrossed in other tests for a while
13:20	:)
13:22	<pscheie> warren, you're correct I did change the path
13:22	<stgraber> Gadi: so just adding something that checks for X_VIDEORAM and add it to the Device section ?
13:22	<pscheie> but two lines before the cp command, there's a mkdir that creates the directory, so it should work, right?
13:22	<Gadi> stgraber: right
13:23	(see XSERVER)
13:23	that hack can prolly be copied
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15:03	<vagrantc> it's really messy and confusing having both XCONF and X_CONF variables in the same files.
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15:11	<vagrantc> Gadi: i don't understand the logic of moving the check for /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf after generating the xorg.conf
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15:12	<vagrantc> Gadi: ltsp-trunk 998 and 999 ?
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15:24	<Gadi> hey
15:24	sorry
15:24	its been a crazy running around day
15:25	umm...
15:25	* Gadi kicks brain
15:25	<Gadi> please wait for my brain to reboot
15:27	ah, ok. I think the issue was that if the assembleXorgConf writes a config, then the second go-round of screen session is different than the first
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15:28	<Gadi> so, one way is to conditionally delete the generated xorg.conf
15:28	another is to just move the code that checks if its there to the end
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15:35	<warren> what is the discussion about?
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15:48	<vagrantc> warren: the new handling of xorg.conf and /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf and all that craziness
15:49	Gadi: well, X_CONF is actually used for a pre-generated xorg.conf, so it seems like the code may ignore that
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15:50	<Gadi> vagrantc: no, it should honor X_CONF still
15:50	<warren> vagrantc: not already fixed?
15:50	<vagrantc> Gadi: setting X_CONF to /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf and then using X_CONF was a simple way to implement ... if $X_CONF is not set, and /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf exists, use that.
15:50	having both XCONF and X_CONF as variables certainly makes it hard to understand what's going on
15:50	<warren> /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf exists, created by what?
15:51	<vagrantc> created by configure-x.sh, or whatever $CONFIGURE_X_COMMAND was defined
15:52	<Gadi> vagrantc: sorry - XCONF is the internally gnerated one
15:52	<vagrantc> Gadi: right.
15:52	<Gadi> if you like, I can s/XCONF/LTSPXCONF/g
15:52	or some such
15:53	<vagrantc> i don't know what to really do ... i'm just trying to wrap my head around it ... some of the things seem kind of weird at first glance
15:54	<Gadi> sorry bout that
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15:55	<vagrantc> Gadi: overall, i like the changes, i just want to get a handle on it and make sure there's no regressions
15:55	<Gadi> right
15:55	<vagrantc> if [ -z "$X_CONF" ] && [ -f /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf ]; then # use generated X configuration file X_CONF=${XCONF}
15:55	<Gadi> it could prolly use some readability cleanup, for sure
15:55	<vagrantc> fi
15:55	that one, for example ...
15:55	<Gadi> I have been fixing things too quickly
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15:55	<vagrantc> if X_CONF isn't set, and /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf is present, set X_CONF to something that may or may not be /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf ?
15:56	<Gadi> right - that should be:
15:56	if [ -z "$X_CONF" ] && [ -f "$XCONF" ]; then
15:56	<vagrantc> ok
15:56	<Gadi> I was collapsing everything to the one var
15:56	and missed a spot
15:57	most of the spots I miss are because I was cut/pasting from old code
15:57	where things were hard-coded
15:57	<vagrantc> XS99-colordepth seems a tad confusing...
15:57	ok, i just don't want to blindly revert your changes without being sure i know why you were trying to do :)
15:58	s,why,what,
15:58	* Gadi nods
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16:00	<vagrantc> Gadi: X_COLOR_DEPTH is tricky ... if they've provided a custom xorg.conf, we don't necessarily want to override it. but the XS* code doesn't handle it ... so if X_CONF = XCONF, then it looks like X_COLOR_DEPTH is ignored.
16:00	or wait ... no..
16:00	<Gadi> well, here's the real issue
16:00	<vagrantc> if [ "$X_CONF" = "$XCONF" ] && [ -n "$X_COLOR_DEPTH" ]; then X_ARGS="$X_ARGS -depth $X_COLOR_DEPTH"
16:01	fi
16:01	<Gadi> I think assembleXorgConf will always produce a xorg.conf with empty sections as long as there are hacks
16:02	the only way for it not to produce sections is if it knew ahead of time that there were no X_* vars relevant to a particular section
16:03	which I suppose I can handle with a flag like: NEEDS_DEVICE
16:03	which could be set by a hack
16:03	to tell aseembleXorgCOnf to run the device hacks
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16:03	* warren doesn't understand what is going on
16:03	<Gadi> I guess my question is: is a xorg.conf with empty sections any slower than no xorg.conf?
16:03	* warren works on something else
16:04	<warren> I'm going to remove the "do you want to save your choice of session" dialog
16:04	instead making it always save
16:04	<vagrantc> NO.
16:04	please.
16:04	<warren> what?
16:04	vagrantc: upstream gdm doesn't ask that anymore
16:04	and it doesn't seem to be useful
16:05	<vagrantc> hrm.
16:05	<warren> If you didn't choose one, it doesn't save anything to .dmrc
16:05	only if you chose something
16:05	<vagrantc> i guess i just hate stuff changing on me without interaction.
16:05	<warren> It only saves .dmrc if you chose something.
16:05	<vagrantc> i spend to much time switching session types to test different environments, i guess.
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16:06	<warren> keeping the dialog adds a little more user confusion (a really long technical question they are asked), and we have to translate that string.
16:07	I was surprised when gdm removed it, but I think it is better this way.
16:07	<vagrantc> pose it to the list before committing and sit on it a while, if you would.
16:08	<Gadi> brb
16:08	<warren> vagrantc: stgraber and Ryan52 were for removing it
16:08	I don't remember if ogra was.
16:09	<vagrantc> session and language?
16:09	<warren> Your default window session is set to $CURRENT_SET, but you choose $(get_nice_name $LDM_SESSION). Would you like to make that your default?
16:09	<vagrantc> right
16:09	<warren> It is not valuable to ask
16:09	it is a long and confusing question
16:09	vagrantc: you could test different sessions faster if it didn't ask
16:10	<vagrantc> i guess it's fine.
16:13	Gadi: why not put the snippets, like XS98-monitor-options into an if statement, rather than putting the if statement inside the function?
16:13	Gadi: then it would only add to monitor hacks if if needed to add something...
16:14	i guess many of them aren't that simple...
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16:42	<pr0cess0r> hello i installed ltsp on unbuntu and i want to ue a sigle nic and my router for dhcp server
16:43	my router is set whit dnsmasq what i need to chamge in ubuntu ?
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17:29	<Lns> pr0cess0r: did you install ltsp-server or ltsp-server-standalone?
17:30	(you should have installed "ltsp-server" so it doesn't install/configure a DHCP server, and then just set up your DHCP server to pass the additional required params to network-booting clients)
17:31	pr0cess0r: you can probably reference https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWindowsDHCP for the required parms to configure your dhcp server with
17:32	<vagrantc> "dnsmasq" is a linux-based dhcp server
17:32	should have some documentation shipped with the ltsp-server package in /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples
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17:35	<Lns> oh oh..gotcha. wow, that's cool, never heard of dnsmasq
17:35	<johnny> Lns, seriously??
17:35	that's all i deploy when i have a choice
17:35	it's really easy to use one of those HOSTS files out there on the internet to stop adblocking in a very easy fashion :)
17:36	since dnsmasq reads the hosts file to provide dns
17:36	<Lns> johnny: yeah =) It looks pretty sweet though. I normally use IPCop as a DHCP server if not using ltsp-server-standalone
17:36	<johnny> ipcop still seems kinda weak..
17:36	i'd probably go with something on a router i guess
17:36	<Lns> weak?
17:37	<johnny> it requires a full machine
17:38	it's not installable on a minimal router type box afaict
17:38	and it seems like tomato, ddwrt, and similiar firmwares can do just as much
17:38	on a much more low powered box
17:38	<Lns> johnny: no, it's a full OS requiring its own box. But that's good to do for a firewall.
17:38	<johnny> that's what i mean
17:39	i can do that on wrt54gl
17:39	or those other router boxes
17:39	<Lns> meh
17:39	<johnny> pfsense seems better than ipcop for full boxes anyways
17:39	<Lns> i don't know why so many people love wrt54gls so much
17:39	<johnny> cuz it is awesome
17:39	it's been running here
17:40	<Lns> not expandable, runs on cheapo linksys hardware.. how many clients can you really run through one of those?
17:40	<johnny> as my captive portal access point and ltsp dns provider for an entire year
17:40	at my store
17:40	well.. you can always get more powerful routers.. like the ones from asus
17:40	ones that can even act as print servers
17:40	to random usb printers
17:40	<Lns> right, but if you're talking IDS, content filtering, anything cpu intensive, that doesn't work
17:41	<johnny> sure.. at that point.. pfsense sounds alot better
17:41	than ipcop
17:41	iptables sux
17:41	<Lns> i do like pfsense though, haven't used it but it looks damn powerful
17:41	I <3 IPCop for its simplicity and extensibility through add-ons
17:42	<pr0cess0r> yes i tryed to use dnsmasq on my wrt54g
17:42	<Lns> such as Zerina/OpenVPN (easiest VPN server/client i've ever seen), URLfilter, AdvProxy...just to name a few
17:42	<pr0cess0r> sorry i whas away from my computer
17:43	<Lns> darn life always getting in the way of irc.. ;)
17:43	<pr0cess0r> how can i know if i installed standalone or not ?
17:43	lol
17:43	<vagrantc> dpkg -l 'ltsp*'
17:44	<Lns> ooo, i've always used dpkg -l\|grep string.. heh
17:44	<pr0cess0r> k i will reboot in ubuntu and test this i come back
17:46	i found the guide i used its stanalone can i remove it and install normal one 6
17:47	i boot ubuntu first
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17:53	<pr0cess0r> hello im back now im on linux its better
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17:54	<pr0cess0r> can i paste the resul of the command in the chan?
17:55	<Lns> !pastebot
17:55	<ltspbot`> Lns: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
17:55	<Lns> pr0cess0r: ^^^
17:57	<pr0cess0r> http://pastebot.ltsp.org/139
17:57	thx
17:57	<vagrantc> COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l 'ltsp*' ...
17:58	!vers
17:58	<ltspbot`> vagrantc: Error: "vers" is not a valid command.
17:58	<vagrantc> !debver
17:58	<ltspbot`> vagrantc: Error: "debver" is not a valid command.
17:58	<vagrantc> gah. i can never remember this one.
17:58	ltspbot`: factoids --search values
17:58	<ltspbot`> vagrantc: No keys matched that query.
17:58	<vagrantc> ltspbot`: factoids search --values
17:58	<ltspbot`> vagrantc: 'ltsp', 'icewm', 'frappr', 'wiki', 'debian', 'edubuntu', 'dhcpd', 'greyscreen', 'ltsp42', 'localdev', 'localdev', 'localdev', 'localdev', 'checklist', 'muekow', 'bestltspdistro', 'serversize', 'wireless', 'sound', 'topics', 'integration', 'lts.conf', 'pastebot', 'bootfloppy', 'ltsp5', 'tarball', 'download', 'monkeys', 'ogra', 'nfs', 'nfsnotresp', 'js', 's', 'troubleshooting', 'sbnet', (1 more message)
18:00	<vagrantc> !ver
18:00	<ltspbot`> vagrantc: "ver" is to get version info on debian/ubuntu (please use the pastebot): COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l 'ltsp' \| awk '/^ii/{print $2}/^ii/{print $3}' ; COLUMNS=200 dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 -l 'ltsp' ldm \| awk '/^ii/{print $2}/^ii/{print $3}'
18:00	<vagrantc> pr0cess0r: that one ^^ :)
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18:02	<pr0cess0r> http://pastebot.ltsp.org/140
18:02	i used this guide to install https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
18:04	* vagrantc wonders why the pastebot isn't posting links...
18:05	* Lns wonders why the ltspbot has been joining/quitting repeatedly for the past week
18:06	<pr0cess0r> lol
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18:11	<pr0cess0r> any one can help me solve my trouble?
18:11	<vagrantc> pr0cess0r: look at the example for dnsmasq in /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples/
18:12	<pr0cess0r> ok
18:12	do i have to uninstall the dhcp server ?
18:12	<vagrantc> depends on what ip address your server has.
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18:13	<vagrantc> if it happens to be the same range as in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf, then you'll need to disable it.
18:13	<pr0cess0r> ok
18:13	<vagrantc> to be safe, uninstalling dhcp3-server should also work.
18:14	<pr0cess0r> i mean dhcpd.conf range vs wrt54g range?
18:15	<vagrantc> just go ahead and uninstall dhcp3-server.
18:16	<pr0cess0r> ok
18:17	is it the same command to uninstall ?
18:17	<vagrantc> sudo apt-get remove dhcp3-server
18:19	<pr0cess0r> thank for the help im not very good whit linux but i like to learn more every day!
18:19	ok its un installed
18:19	i will try to install dnsmasq package now
18:20	<vagrantc> you need dnsmasq on your router, if you want your router to server up DHCP
18:20	you don't want two DHCP servers on the same network.
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18:20	<pr0cess0r> ok
18:21	my router is a wrt54g with dd-wrt op it
18:21	i activated dnsmasq
18:21	do you think it wall pass pxe info righ now ?
18:22	<vagrantc> you'll have to configure it
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18:22	<pr0cess0r> ok
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18:23	<pr0cess0r> any guide i can read to setup now ?
18:24	i tryed to understand this http://www.k12ltsp.org/mediawiki/index.php/Technical:Setup_Server_with_Single_NIC but most of the files are not there
18:24	<vagrantc> pr0cess0r: read that example i keep posting, and edit the dnsmasq configuration on your router to use that.
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18:25	<pr0cess0r> the example there eloi@eloi-desktop:/usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples$
18:25	?
18:25	<vagrantc> yes
18:25	those are the options you'll need to set.
18:26	<pr0cess0r> in this file dhcpd-dnsmasq
18:26	<vagrantc> yes.
18:28	<pr0cess0r> deao it mean my boot files need to be on my router directly ?
18:28	<johnny> no
18:28	you can tell it to use the tftp server on your ltsp server
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18:30	<pr0cess0r> ok maybe im not on the good tab of the router but i only have option to enable dnsmasq dhcp and dns nothing else
18:30	do i have to use telnet or ssh to edit config file in the router ?
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18:33	<EAG> is it impossible to load fglrx as a kernel module or?
18:34	<vagrantc> pr0cess0r: depends on your router...
18:35	<pr0cess0r> i have a wrt54g with dd-wrt on it
18:36	now im connected via telnet but i dont know how to edit or view a file lol
18:36	<vagrantc> if there's no option in the menu, then you'll probably have to edit the configuration file directly, yes.
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18:38	<pr0cess0r> found it nice
18:40	i inserted this dhcp-range=192.168.1.100,192.168.1.250,1h
18:41	<vagrantc> you'll also need dhcp-boot
18:41	<pr0cess0r> google is my friend lol i foudn it
18:41	dhcp-boot=pxelinux.0,,192.168.230.1
18:41	<vagrantc> and whatever it is to specify the dhcp3-server correlary to next-server.
18:42	but dd-wrt may specify some arguments on the commandline
18:45	<pr0cess0r> i will try whit those 2 line
18:45	the last oine and this dhcp-boot=pxelinux.0,,192.168.1.136
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18:54	<pr0cess0r> how can i make sure that tftp server is running on my ubuntu box ?
18:57	LINUX boot via PXE thx for your help !!!!
18:57	now i take a break!!
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20:12	<vagrantc> i know what i didn't like about changing the language or session without propmting
20:12	someone can come along, change the language and/or session, not login, and then you'll end up with unexpected behavior
20:13	<warren> gdm decided it was better to do it this way.
20:14	<vagrantc> yes, i understand that gdm decided it was better to do it that way.
20:14	is there any way we can handle the above issue cleanly?
20:14	have a session/language timeout, perhaps?
20:15	<pr0cess0r> re hello
20:15	my client are able to pxe boot now i see the ubuntu loading screen but it stay there
20:15	<warren> vagrantc: that is clean? what if someone is really slow at typing their name and password?
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20:16	<warren> pr0cess0r: is the firewall on the server blocking nfs?
20:16	<pr0cess0r> hummm good question
20:16	<vagrantc> ubuntu hasn't used NFS for a long time ...
20:16	warren: well, it's ugly either way.
20:16	<pr0cess0r> i tried 2 client they do the same thing
20:17	<vagrantc> warren: i really don't like the idea of having to always select my session and language so that someone else doesn't do it for me.
20:17	<pr0cess0r> do i need to add dhcp-boot=net:etherboot,/ltsp/i386/nbi.img to my dnsmasq config?
20:17	<vagrantc> warren: that doesn't seem clean.
20:18	<warren> vagrantc: that is an awfully paranoid point of view
20:18	vagrantc: simply CTRL-ALT-Backspace to restart X if you're that paranoid. You could be sitting at a desktop that only LOOKS like ldm.
20:19	<vagrantc> warren: it's more an issue of if i end up with a language i don't even understand and don't know how to log out
20:19	or even a session tpe
20:19	type
20:20	<warren> Most of the others already agreed to remove it. I suppose if everyone wants it back, I would suggest making it translatable and in the .pot file first.
20:20	And perhaps use exactly the same string as gdm before it was removed, so we can just import the translations.
20:20	<vagrantc> ok, let me restate my question...
20:20	<warren> vagrantc: but still, that is a very paranoid point of view
20:21	<vagrantc> "is there any way we can handle the above issue cleanly?"
20:21	<Ahmuck> actually it's a problem in schools
20:21	which is where ltsp edubuntu is supposed to be targeted
20:21	teenagers have a ball with this type of thing
20:21	<warren> vagrantc: Windows logins give a little extra protection from "login screen that isn't really a login screen" by making the user hit CTRL-ALT-DEL before they login. Nothing else is supposed to be able to intercept that key combo in Windows. We have something similar.
20:22	<pr0cess0r> i have a aspire one that stau at loading screen a amd turion same thing and a old p3 booting whit a 3com cart that say no reply from tftp server
20:22	<vagrantc> warren: i'm not paranoid here, i'm envisioning exactly the situation Ahmuck is talking about
20:22	<warren> vagrantc: so I would say, if there is no login, lock the screen and have it say "Press CTRL-ALT-Backspace to login"
20:23	<vagrantc> now that is clean.
20:23	<warren> vagrantc: that solves not only your paranoid concern, but also protects against people stealing passwords with a fake login screen
20:23	why are you not concerned about the latter?
20:24	<vagrantc> because it is much easier to click language/session from a menu than it is to make a fake login screen?
20:24	<Ahmuck> part of the edubuntu project is to provide a cost effective way for schools to get into computing. this negates that if you have to hire an admin to fix things students can break
20:24	provide a way to lock gdm and then you can have the default as is, but a script that locks gdm
20:24	<warren> Ahmuck: my alternative suggested here solves the problem as well while also increasing security in a different way.
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20:25	<warren> I think that particular concern is ridiculous.
20:25	<Ahmuck> ah, nm, i c what ur saying. yes, that is a good solution
20:25	only if your not on the recieving end of it
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20:26	<vagrantc> i think calling any concern raised ridiculous is ridiculous.
20:26	<Ahmuck> the situations arrises in schools, student changes it, another student logs in and it's screwed up, informs teacher, teeacher tells principle, tells superintendent, and super comes down on you. so many of those and they are requesting you find another os solution
20:27	and any advancement in the school system you've lost. normally for as long as the super and the principle are employed, and its a bear to get a tenured super or principle to move out of the shcool system. so, let's say, 20 years
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20:29	<warren> well, my suggestion solves not only this problem but that other concern
20:29	that other concern is very real, and while not easy, very effective at stealing passwords
20:30	<vagrantc> i agree.
20:30	again, this is why i was inclined to sit on it a while before pushing, and bring it up on the list.
20:31	overall, i think it's the right behavior, and overall, i guess our proposed solution would address the concern i raised... but insisting that the concern is invalid is kind of insulting.
20:32	i'm more interested in solving issues than calling people paranoid.
20:33	<warren> I think my concern is a bigger problem?
20:34	<vagrantc> if they're able to fake a login screen, no screen locker is really going to protect you.
20:34	<warren> it is not difficult to fake a login screen
20:34	<vagrantc> they could fake the screen locker and disable ctrl-alt-backspace, for example. they could do it in-kernel.
20:34	<warren> no, don't need to modify kernel
20:35	login to any account, and run an X app full screen that grabs keyboard focus
20:35	<vagrantc> i know they don't need to, but if you're already running hacked software, they could be sending you a fake kernel.
20:35	<warren> no, you are not running hacked software at all
20:35	they only need any account on the network
20:35	1) login to that account
20:36	2) download binary that has a fake login screen
20:36	3) run it
20:36	4) walk away
20:36	You could even make #2 look very good, where it is even functional, creating a new ssh login and desktop session.
20:36	so they have no idea it happened
20:37	<Ahmuck> could you run a X app full screen in ltsp user mode ?
20:37	<vagrantc> sure, and i don't see what having the screen locker in place will really do to prevent that... ? if it doesn't say ctrl-alt-backspace and presents a login screen... how man users would simply log in?
20:38	<johnny> i already did it to warren already.. and he never noticed
20:38	hehe
20:38	<vagrantc> anyways...
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20:38	<vagrantc> i gotta run
20:38	<warren> vagrantc: Windows had the same problem, so some sites enable the screen locker and train their users to never use it if it isn't there.
20:39	Ahmuck: yes
20:39	<johnny> vagrantc, extreme trains tomorrow night on the history channel.. it's gonna be about the empire builder
20:39	<vagrantc> you could easily remap the keyboard to effectively ignore ctrl-alt-backspace
20:39	<warren> vagrantc: are folks done with ltsp-trunk?
20:39	screen-session isues?
20:39	issues?
20:40	<Ahmuck> it's the simple things that used to get people in our labs. things like creating an alternate autoexec.bat file so that it read "You have violated the school's computer policy. Report to the principles office now if you don't want to be suspended" sort of thing
20:40	the nastier stuff we were always afraid of getting caught
20:42	<vagrantc> warren: i haven't any plans for it.
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20:42	<pr0cess0r> any one can tell me if i need to build a special ltsp image for a intel atom cpu ??
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20:45	<pr0cess0r> is it possible that it hang because the image on the server dont have support for the network card of the client?
20:46	<stgraber> warren: AFAICS it's working fine here with all of our hacks as screen-session.d scripts
20:46	<warren> stgraber: after the latest patch?
20:47	<stgraber> yeah, I basically patched our chroot with rev1000
20:47	<Ahmuck> pr0cess0r: i had clients hanging because of unsported vid cards
20:48	<pr0cess0r> i have 1 computer left to try lol
20:48	to make sure everything is working
20:48	<stgraber> warren: 1001 and 1002 being fedora-specific
20:48	<pr0cess0r> the 2 computer i tester are recent
20:49	one thing i dont understand 2 computer boot to ubuntu and my p3 with a 3com network card fail to download image from server
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21:03	<pr0cess0r> no one can help me ?
21:07	<stgraber> warren: "+# we are going to install into a chroot, such as /opt/ltps/ppc" s/ltps/ltsp/
21:07	<warren> stgraber: which file?
21:07	<stgraber> server/configs/kickstart/Fedora/10/ltsp-ppc.ks
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21:19	<pr0cess0r> ...
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21:40	<pr0cess0r> any one can help me again here ???
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21:54	<pr0cess0r> is it dead here ??
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22:41	<pr0cess0r> any one can help me ?
22:51	<Ryan52> not if you don't ask your question...
22:51	!question
22:51	<ltspbot`> Ryan52: "question" is if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can. please also mention the linux distro and release you're using. :)
22:52	<pr0cess0r> lol sorry
22:53	but i asked some times and its whas dead here
22:53	i try to build client from disc
22:53	and it give me this error W: Failure trying to run: chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 mount -t proc proc /proc.
22:54	<Ryan52> what happens if you manually try to run that command? "chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 mount -t proc proc /proc"
22:54	<pr0cess0r> chroot: ne peut changer le répertoire racine vers /opt/ltsp/i386: Opération non permise
22:54	ltsppbot has quit IRC
22:55	<pr0cess0r> chroot:cant chage the home directory to /opt/ltsp/i386
22:55	:operation not allowed
22:56	<Ryan52> did you build your chroot yet? I'm assuming that you would have needed to by the error..
22:56	<pr0cess0r> i dont know ...
22:56	<Ryan52> ltsp-build-client
22:57	<pr0cess0r> wht i can say is that im able to build client like this ltsp-build-client
22:57	it work
22:57	but ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom fail
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22:58	<pr0cess0r> can it be simple like a bad disc ?
22:58	<Ryan52> there should be other errors if that's the case.
22:58	<pr0cess0r> k
22:58	i need a solution because it will cost me alot of internet
22:59	<Ryan52> sorry, I'm not very helpful with ltsp stuff, so I can't help :)
23:00	<pr0cess0r> thx
23:00	<alkisg> pr0cess0r: which distro?
23:01	<pr0cess0r> ubuntu
23:01	<alkisg> why didn't you download the alternate cd?
23:01	It automatically builds an ltsp chroot
23:01	without accessing the internet, I mean...
23:01	<pr0cess0r> i tryed this and when it load afther login i have black screen
23:01	i have the disc can i get the chroot from it ?
23:02	<alkisg> Well, that was an X-related problem...
23:02	pr0cess0r: yes, but I'm not sure about the syntax, let me see if I can find it...
23:02	<pr0cess0r> and i whas unable to fix it
23:02	ok thx
23:04	my server whas working but all client i tested hang at ubuntu loading i thinked maybe my image chroot whas bad and i removed it
23:04	<alkisg> Hmmm... I think you should be able to do this: (1) insert the cd, (2) tell synaptic to use it as a source, (3) sudo ltsp-build-client --copy-sourceslist --mount-cdrom
23:05	pr0cess0r: was that the i386 or the amd64 version?
23:05	<pr0cess0r> my disc ?
23:05	i386
23:05	<alkisg> ye
23:06	ah, ok... try the above I wrote
23:06	<pr0cess0r> the 2 client i tested are a aspire one and a toshiba whit a amd turion
23:06	ok i try this
23:08	<alkisg> pr0cess0r: It will still access the internet because it'll find newer versions there. In 8.10 right now it downloads about 100MB of updates
23:08	You'll have to remove the internet sources to force it to use only the cdrom...
23:09	<pr0cess0r> .../usr/sbin/ltsp-build-client : option non reconnue « --mount-cdrom »
23:09	for now it build online
23:09	i will let it finish this time
23:11	do you think it is supposed to work on my aspire one?
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