IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 3 June 2009 (all times are UTC)
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| 08:06 | <matttttt> is there a way to print to a local printer on a thin client that doesn't require jetpipe/static ip assignment to the tc?
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| 08:07 | i've presented this to our network guys as a requirement, but they are throwing a fit about giving the tc's statics
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| 08:07 | just want to make sure i'm not missing another option before i tell them it's the only way :)
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| 08:07 | <alkisg> I think that you don't need a static IP, a dns name (or mac address) in lts.conf works fine
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| 08:08 | <matttttt> ?
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| 08:08 | i mean printing from an app running on the ltsp server to a local usb printer on the tc
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| 08:08 | if my ip changes, my dns is going to change
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| 08:11 | <alkisg> So the problem is that you don't want to put the mac address/ip of the client in dhcpd.conf? You could make the client use nsupdate, but that looks like more trouble...
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| 08:12 | <ogra> dhcpd.conf is the better option
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| 08:12 | maintaining stuff in two different places doesnt really improve :)
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| 08:14 | <matttttt> well the problem is my task is deploy an ltsp infrastructure, this place has an existing dhcp server, which the network guys maintain and for some weird reason are whining about dishing out statics to the tcs, doesn't seem like a big deal to me.
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| 08:15 | just want to make sure jetdirect via cups/lprng/etc -> jetpipe on tc is the only way to do local printing
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| 08:15 | before i tell them tough, that's your only option
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| 08:16 | <ogra> yes, TCs with printer should get a static IP
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| 08:16 | i assume not all your TCs have printers attached so it will only be a subset
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| 08:18 | <matttttt> most of the 600+ will
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| 08:18 | <ogra> ugh, why ? what a waste
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| 08:18 | <cyberorg> matttttt, you can get away with very long lease time
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| 08:19 | <ogra> well, might get tricky with 600 clients on a single dhcpd
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| 08:19 | <cyberorg> yeah true :)
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| 08:20 | <matttttt> my boss is amazed that printing in linux isn't so automagical like it is in windows
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| 08:21 | <cyberorg> matttttt, you'd need a cluster of about 15 servers to run 600 clients, can't do that without ldap and pretty good SAN for /home
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| 08:21 | <ogra> it is
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| 08:21 | at least in ubuntu if you dont use thin clients :P
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| 08:21 | <matttttt> heh, yeah but we're talking tc printing
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| 08:22 | <ogra> you might also want stgraber's patch to cups with 600 TCs that all have printers attached
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| 08:22 | <matttttt> cyberorg, we've got 2 quad cpu boxes w/ like 20+g of ram for now, we won't be getting near that number for a while, this will be a multi phase project.
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| 08:22 | <ogra> he has a way to limit the displayed printers in the printing applet
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| 08:22 | <matttttt> ah, yeah sounds like that'd be handy.
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| 08:22 | i wasn't thinking about how cups/lprng would like that
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| 08:22 | <ogra> listing all 600 there will take minutes i bet
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| 08:23 | but i would really only go with one printer per room
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| 08:23 | and configure all clients in that room to use this one
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| 08:24 | its a massive waste of energy, resources and money to attach one to every client
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| 08:24 | <cyberorg> i am sure it would be interesting :P
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| 08:24 | <matttttt> you're preaching to the choir
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| 08:24 | <cyberorg> good idea, donate 550 printers, that way your company will win a lot of karma points and you'd save on lot of admin work
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| 08:24 | <matttttt> we're a state agency
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| 08:25 | <ogra> and you didnt discover the paperless office yet ? :)
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| 08:25 | <matttttt> i just got here 2 weeks ago, can't change the world overnight :)
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| 08:26 | * ogra even works in an officeless office ;) | |
| 08:26 | <matttttt> i did to at my previous job, i miss it already :)
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| 08:26 | this is my first go-round working for the gubmint
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| 08:26 | they do things amazingly ass backwards
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| 08:26 | <ogra> heh, yeah
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| 08:27 | thats normal
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| 08:27 | anyway, stgraber has a lot of experience with big setups, he can surely give you some pointers
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| 08:28 | <matttttt> cool
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| 08:28 | <ogra> 600 is nothing for him ;)
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| 08:28 | they run the really huge ubuntu ltsp setups
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| 08:29 | <ogra> (which is why he developed ltsp-cluster)
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| 08:29 | * stgraber is migrating 5k thin clients to Jaunty at the moment ;) | |
| 08:30 | <matttttt> if this goes well, they'd like to 2x or 3x that number
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| 08:30 | they really like the idea of telling ms to shove it
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| 08:31 | stgraber: whoa :)
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| 08:32 | <cyberorg> stgraber, how many clients per server?
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| 08:37 | <matttttt> do you use ssh -X for all of those? nomad?
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| 08:37 | * ogra guesses LDM_DIRECTX | |
| 08:40 | <matttttt> does nxagent w/ ssh -X get you anything? I've been meaning to fire up xscreensaver or something and look at it vs. ldm_directx
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| 09:02 | <stgraber> cyberorg: 100 usually
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| 09:04 | <tinjaw> Hello. Problem with Ubuntu-LTSP.
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| 09:04 | I *think* it has to do with inetd vs xinetd.
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| 09:05 | <ogra> ubuntu uses openbds-inetd
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| 09:05 | xinetd isnt supported out of the box, you have to configure it yourself
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| 09:13 | <ogra> Gadi, do you remember the option to make a specific NIC eth0 for ipconfig from the top of your head ?
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| 09:15 | <ogra> or alkisg ^^^
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| 09:15 | <alkisg> ogra, I didn't understand the question
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| 09:15 | <ogra> there is a kernel option you can set if you have two NICs
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| 09:15 | <alkisg> PXELINUX passes the boot interface with IPAPPEND 2
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| 09:15 | And I think a script is required to make ipconfig use this interface
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| 09:16 | <ogra> no, there was an option you or Gadi used to switch order
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| 09:16 | <alkisg> I.e. ipconfig eth1 , if that's the interface that was passed
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| 09:17 | I saw a script for that in the mailing list a while ago. I don't think anyone had a method to switch the interface names (other than messing with persisten-net-rules generator)
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| 09:17 | <ogra> right, but there was an option to change that through the kernel commandline
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| 09:17 | <alkisg> Ah, never heard of that one
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| 09:17 | But ipconfig is to be deprecated in 9.10, why care about this?
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| 09:18 | <ogra> huh ?
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| 09:18 | <alkisg> stgraber will use udhcpc by default
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| 09:18 | ...and that's a really nice thing :)
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| 09:18 | <ogra> udhcpc being added doesnt mean ipconfig is deprecated :)
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| 09:18 | and its far from being approved
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| 09:18 | <alkisg> Well, if udhcpc is used by default, who's gonna use ipconfig?
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| 09:19 | (I don't mean deprecated officially in klibc...)
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| 09:19 | <ogra> there is a main inclusion report fgor udhcpc, thats all
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| 09:19 | <alkisg> Argh and I was happy about that :(
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| 09:19 | I was even starting to send some patches so that it supports IPAPPEND => multiple interfaces
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| 09:23 | <alkisg> ogra, you can pass the ethernet name as a kernel parameter with ipopts, were you looking for that? IPOPTS=:::::eth0
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| 09:23 | <ogra> yeah !
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| 09:23 | <alkisg> OK, that's what IPAPPEND does
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| 09:29 | <stgraber> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udhcp/+bug/383177
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| 09:29 | btw
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| 09:37 | <tinjaw> ogra: I believe LTSP require some configuration of inetd? If so, I can use itox. However, I don't know what LTSP requires.
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| 09:38 | <Lumiere> tinjaw: it needs tftpd
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| 09:40 | <ogra> ubuntu ltsp uses inetd for nearly everything
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| 09:40 | <pmatulis> for non-pxe clients, is the file nbi.img the bootstrap program?
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| 09:40 | <ogra> right
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| 09:40 | its the etherboot image
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| 09:40 | <tinjaw> I have tftpd running
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| 09:41 | <ogra> you shouldnt
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| 09:41 | it should be started by inetd
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| 09:41 | <ogra> as all other services in ubuntu ltsp
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| 09:41 | <pmatulis> for pxe i can specify the boot parameters in the file pxelinux.cfg/default, what of non-pxe clients?
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| 09:41 | <tinjaw> I am referencing http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=5411285&postcount=16
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| 09:42 | <ogra> pmatulis, you need to do that in the BOOTOPTIONS variable in the chroot, its a but complicated
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| 09:42 | *bit
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| 09:42 | <tinjaw> I don't want to uninstall xinetd and install inetd. There is no reason too.
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| 09:42 | <pmatulis> ogra: thanks
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| 09:42 | <ogra> well, then you are on your own
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| 09:42 | <tinjaw> if there is something that LTSP requires in inetd, then it can be handled by xinetd
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| 09:43 | <ogra> right, feel free to adjust the configs yourself
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| 09:43 | but note you need to do that with every change
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| 09:43 | and on every upgrade
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| 09:43 | the scripts and tools all use inetd.conf
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| 09:43 | <ogra> and update it
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| 09:44 | <tinjaw> is it updating inet.conf?
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| 09:44 | if so, then itox should work fine
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| 09:44 | <ogra> xinetd has licensing issues and is thus not shipped in ubuntu ... if you have patches for the tools and scripts to use xinetd, feel free to send them
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| 09:44 | * ogra has no idea what itox | |
| 09:44 | <ogra> is
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| 09:45 | <tinjaw> itox will convert inetd.conf to xinetd.cong
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| 09:45 | err, conf
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| 09:45 | <ogra> aha
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| 09:45 | well, good luck is all i can say
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| 09:46 | <tinjaw> I don't have an inetd.conf
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| 09:46 | <cyberorg> tinjaw, why would you want to use xinetd if inetd is fully working and supported way?
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| 09:46 | <tinjaw> so I suspect when I installed LTSP it errored out.
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| 09:46 | Because other things I do require xinetd
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| 09:46 | and xinetd is a super-set of inetd
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| 09:46 | <alkisg> pmatulis: what do you mean non-pxe clients? If you want to boot from hd, cd, or floppy, gpxe is pxe-compliant
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| 09:46 | <ogra> and has licensing issues
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| 09:47 | alkisg, etherboot with EPROM ;)
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| 09:47 | <tinjaw> ogra: that may be a problem for you and LTSP, but it isn't for everybody.
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| 09:47 | license elitism doesn't help anybody.
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| 09:47 | <ogra> tinjaw, its the reason why we dont have any support for it
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| 09:47 | <tinjaw> I understand
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| 09:47 | and that is why I am asking for the info I need to do what I need to do
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| 09:47 | and that info is...
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| 09:48 | <ogra> we dont ship it on the CD ltsp supporrts whats on the CD ... if someone sends patches to make it work they wont be refused
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| 09:48 | <tinjaw> does LTSP interact with inetd only via inetd.conf configuration issues or does it interact in realtime directly?
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| 09:48 | <ogra> the info is, you are on your own until someone adds support for xientd to the scripts
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| 09:49 | <tinjaw> ogra: please don't turn this inquiry into a religious war.
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| 09:49 | <ogra> ??
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| 09:49 | <tinjaw> I heard you loud and clear 1) it is a licensing issue 2) it is open source so submit a patch
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| 09:49 | got it
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| 09:49 | <ogra> tinjaw, all i'm saying is there is *no support for inetd* in any of the scripts
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| 09:50 | <tinjaw> I assume you meant to say xinetd
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| 09:50 | <ogra> ltsp uses tftp, various nbd services and ldm from inetd
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| 09:50 | s/ldm/ldminfo/
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| 09:50 | yes i did
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| 09:51 | <tinjaw> I have tftpd-hda running
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| 09:51 | I have nbd services running
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| 09:51 | I have ldm running
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| 09:51 | <ogra> that wont help
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| 09:51 | nbdrootd and nbdswapd cant run without inetd
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| 09:52 | neither can ldminfod
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| 09:52 | <pmatulis> alkisg: i see the files pxelinux.0 and nbi.img on my system, one is for pxe clients and i wanted to know what the other is for
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| 09:52 | <ogra> ltsp-update-image and ltsp-update-kernels wont work with xinetd
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| 09:53 | both use the update-inetd command which doesnt work with xinetd
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| 09:53 | <alkisg> pmatulis: ok, I thought you were looking to pass kernel parameters, and sometimes you can use pxelinux.0 even with etherboot clients (=easier for parameter passing)
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| 09:53 | <pmatulis> alkisg: well that *was* my second question
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| 09:53 | <ogra> pmatulis, nbi.img gets the bootoptions hardcoded when you roll it, you cant easily pass kernel params dynamically
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| 09:54 | <tinjaw> ok, thanks for the info. I will have to run LTSP on a different box.
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| 09:54 | <ogra> tinjaw, well, patches are welcome :)
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| 09:54 | its all shellscript, not to hard to hack
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| 09:55 | <tinjaw> It's a matter of not having time, currently. It is on my someday/maybe list.
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| 09:55 | Thank you.
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| 09:56 | <alkisg> Woah, dnsmasq request for main: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionDnsMasq :)
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| 09:56 | <tinjaw> That makes me think of something. As I need to remove LTSP from a box.
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| 09:56 | <ogra> shudder
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| 09:56 | <tinjaw> And LTSP downloaded a bunch of files.
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| 09:57 | <ogra> sudo rm -rf /opt/ltsp
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| 09:57 | sudo rm -rf /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp (if it exists)
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| 09:57 | <tinjaw> it does
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| 10:00 | <tinjaw> thank you. I will set up a virtual server to host LTSP. It will be dedicated to that function, so there will be no inetd/xinetd issue .
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| 10:00 | <ogra> that sounds good
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| 10:53 | whoops, sorry.
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| 11:02 | <Gadi> someone's passing notes in class
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| 11:02 | :)
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| 11:17 | <johnny> gentlemen
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| 11:18 | <ogra> ladies ?
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| 11:18 | <vagrantc> punks!
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| 11:20 | <johnny> ogra, it's a meme thing..
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| 11:21 | * vagrantc breaks meme's legs | |
| 11:21 | * johnny needs a new laptop | |
| 11:21 | <johnny> ogra btw.. my fan is just as loud ...
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| 11:21 | <ogra> get ARM !
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| 11:21 | <johnny> on fedora
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| 11:22 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 11:22 | <johnny> whenever the cpu spikes.. for any reason, for longer than a minute (or thereabouts)
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| 11:22 | * ogra just got the first pegatron laptop last week ... still no case but everything else :) | |
| 11:22 | <johnny> ogra, yeah.. but i still need something that will let me play the occasional game
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| 11:22 | <ogra> solitaire works
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| 11:23 | <johnny> i'd like a beefy laptop.. and an arm netbook
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| 11:23 | <ogra> and nethack
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| 11:23 | <johnny> hehe
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| 11:23 | <ogra> what else do you need
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| 11:24 | <vagrantc> vim
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| 11:24 | <ogra> for gaming ?
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| 11:25 | <johnny> no.. that's emacs..
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| 11:25 | hehe
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| 11:25 | <ogra> e3macs is for windows :P
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| 11:26 | * vagrantc wonders why patches.ubuntu.com diff'ed the new ldm against the version from testing rather than unstable | |
| 11:27 | <johnny> ok.. sorry
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| 11:27 | for the rejoining
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| 11:27 | i was testing the nickserv access thing
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| 11:27 | the help file seems to lie about auto identify
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| 11:28 | * vagrantc is happy to see a much smaller diff with ldm | |
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| 11:30 | <ogra> vagrantc, is there any diff left now ?
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| 11:30 | i thought ripping out the themes would have gotten rid of any diffs
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| 11:30 | <vagrantc> ogra: yeah, some differences in depends/recommends, not all the same debian/patches/* ... but it's getting very small.
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| 11:31 | <bieb> using Ubuntu 9.04 for the server.. it put the lts.conf file in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ instead of /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 so I have to run ltsp-update-image if I make changes to lts.conf correct???
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| 11:31 | <johnny> bieb, no..
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| 11:31 | <ogra> right
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| 11:31 | <johnny> oh
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| 11:31 | * vagrantc dances the small ldm diff dance | |
| 11:31 | <ogra> but you should really use /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
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| 11:31 | <johnny> if you put it there, then yes.. it doesn't put one my default in /var/lib/tftpboot
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| 11:31 | * ogra joins dancing | |
| 11:31 | <johnny> by*
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| 11:31 | <bieb> ogra: the ubuntu install put it in /opt by default
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| 11:32 | <johnny> bieb, that's normal
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| 11:32 | bieb, that one is empty
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| 11:32 | <vagrantc> it's a placeholder
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| 11:32 | <ogra> right, so it can get replaced during boot by whatever comes from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
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| 11:32 | <bieb> which one is empty?
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| 11:33 | <johnny> ogra, i thought you ubuntu guys were going to put a default
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| 11:33 | bieb, the one in /opt/ltsp/i386..
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| 11:33 | it's just comments
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| 11:33 | you don't have to use it..
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| 11:33 | but it should be there
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| 11:33 | the comments tell you to use the one in /var/lib
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| 11:33 | <ogra> johnny, us ubuntu guys is mainly stgraber :P
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| 11:33 | <bieb> ok.. so dont make any changes to lts.conf?
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| 11:33 | <johnny> bieb, depends on if you have problems with your tftp server
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| 11:33 | <bieb> oh ok
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| 11:33 | <johnny> if you don't, then use the one in /var/lib
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| 11:34 | stgraber, were you going to steal fedora's default lts.conf and put it in /var/lib/tftpboot?
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| 11:34 | <bieb> there isnt one in var/lib
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| 11:34 | <johnny> bieb, i know.. cuz the ubuntu guys havent' done that
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| 11:34 | you put one there yourself
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| 11:34 | <ogra> just create it
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| 11:35 | <bieb> ok.. so copy the /opt one to /var/lib?
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| 11:35 | <johnny> no..
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| 11:35 | just do a new one
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| 11:35 | <bieb> ok
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| 11:35 | <johnny> and put [default] at the beginning before any statements
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| 11:35 | <bieb> ok
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| 11:35 | then all I need is a section for each "Client"?
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| 11:36 | <vagrantc> if you need it at all... try without it first
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| 11:36 | <johnny> i try not to use them
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| 11:36 | <bieb> ok.. so just a lts.conf file with [Default] and thats it?
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| 11:36 | <johnny> you don't need that
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| 11:36 | if you don't need any settings set
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| 11:37 | ignore it until you need it
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| 11:37 | <bieb> ohhh ok.. so all I need is the lts.conf file empty in var/lib?
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| 11:37 | <johnny> you don't even need that
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| 11:37 | <ogra> lts.conf is only for overriding defaults or solving problems
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| 11:37 | <johnny> you don't need one at all
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| 11:37 | unless you do :)
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| 11:37 | <bieb> ok.. I will leave it as is then
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| 11:37 | <johnny> i have a few settings
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| 11:37 | like guestlong
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| 11:38 | guestlogin
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| 11:38 | that's it
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| 11:38 | <bieb> ok.. what tells the client to get its info from the LTSP server? I am going to be comandeering a WindowsXP PC for a test setup
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| 11:38 | <johnny> the network boot
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| 11:38 | dhcp + tftp
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| 11:41 | <bieb> johnny: plug a switch into the 192.168 eth port on the server.. then plug client into same switch.. all should work from there?
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| 11:41 | <johnny> set the machine to net boot..
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| 11:41 | <bieb> ok
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| 11:42 | seems alot easier than the way I was reading it
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| 11:43 | <johnny> it depends on whether you have existing dhcp servers
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| 11:43 | that always complicates the setup
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| 11:43 | if you don't.. it's just install ltsp-server-standalone, set machine to netboot, everything works :)
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| 11:44 | <bieb> for the test it will be segregated off the main servers and network.. the ltsp server will be connected to it for internet access, but nothing else
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| 12:04 | rjune has quit IRC | |
| 12:08 | <pmatulis> how do i suppress a pop-up window from appearing on my thin clients when external media is inserted on the server-side?
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| 12:09 | <johnny> but it doesn't happen
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| 12:09 | when users put them in?
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| 12:09 | on other computers?
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| 12:09 | if not.. i'd like to know the answer too :)
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| 12:14 | <pmatulis> not sure about user actions, just the server for now. i imaging it involves monkeying around with gconf-editor
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| 12:14 | *imagine
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| 12:14 | <stgraber> alkisg: ping
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| 12:15 | <johnny> no.. i don't think it does
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| 12:15 | i don't know if this problem is solvable pmatulis
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| 12:15 | i had the same problem since feisty
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| 12:15 | feisty, gutsy, hardy, intrepid, jaunty..
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| 12:15 | oh wait.. i haven't installed jaunty yet :)
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| 12:16 | on that machine
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| 12:16 | on the new ltsp machine i have
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| 12:16 | rjune has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:17 | <alkisg> stgraber: pong
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| 12:17 | <stgraber> alkisg: you're using iTalc with LTSP right ?
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| 12:17 | <alkisg> Yes, I think it has some glitches in jaunty
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| 12:17 | <johnny> we're not allowed to use italc .. so we're sticking with tcm
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| 12:17 | <stgraber> alkisg: I have a package to test in my PPA, would you be able to do that ?
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| 12:18 | <johnny> the functionality is too orwellian for our little shop to accept
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| 12:18 | <stgraber> alkisg: it should fix cases where ica half-crashes on the clients
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| 12:18 | <alkisg> sure
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| 12:18 | <ogra> pmatulis, its either a nautilus gconf setting or gnome-volume-manager ...
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| 12:18 | <johnny> ogra, what is this setting called..?
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| 12:19 | i never got an answer when i mentioned this problem :)
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| 12:19 | <ogra> /apps/nautilus/preferences/media_automount
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| 12:19 | /apps/nautilus/preferences/media_automount_open
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| 12:19 | <stgraber> alkisg: the test would basically be to check that it still work at least as well as it used to ;)
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| 12:19 | <ogra> thats for general media
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| 12:19 | <alkisg> stgraber: moment, phone...
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| 12:20 | <ogra> for things like ipod, cameras etc look at the gconf settings for gnome-volume-manager
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| 12:22 | <pmatulis> ogra: thanks, will investigate
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| 12:22 | <ogra> you likely want that systemwide ... so put a gconf file in /usr/share/gconf/defaults/
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| 12:23 | <johnny> won't that affect client automounts?
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| 12:23 | <ogra> no
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| 12:23 | client side is handled with ltspfs
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| 12:28 | <johnny> not now i guess
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| 12:28 | but when dbus stuff is added? won't this affect that?
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| 12:29 | <ogra> no
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| 12:29 | client side will still fire udev rules
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| 12:29 | it might affect the popping up nautilus window though
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| 12:33 | <alkisg> stgraber: I won't be able to test it very well for crash-tests, because the school year is over here and I don't have any students left :) But I'll do some testing in the lab by myself.
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| 12:33 | stgraber: But, I noticed some problems with the launchers, i.e. some clients being autodetected twice, and also the "autodetected computers" classroom still showing after selecting "don't show this classroom" and restarting italc...
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| 12:39 | <stgraber> sbalneav: hey, what about merging that ldm fix ? ;)
| |
| 12:40 | <alkisg> *that* I'd be able to test since it happens with a 80% probability :)
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| 12:46 | spectra has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:50 | maginot has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:50 | <maginot> good afternoon to all
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| 12:50 | =)
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| 12:51 | so ... as usual, one question ;) Is there a way to send a reboot request from the server to the client?
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| 12:53 | <johnny> thin client manager or italc can do it
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| 12:53 | iirc
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| 12:53 | or you could enable ssh on the machines and ssh to em and reboot
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| 12:54 | <bieb> any good recommendations for clients? I have looked at disklessworkstations.com
| |
| 12:57 | <maginot> johnny, well, italc I know I need to configure and all that stuff, the tests I made with italc it was a litle unstable... thin client manager I think I used it already, but for what I remember it wasnt cli, arent it ?
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| 12:58 | <johnny> no it isn't
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| 12:58 | if you want cli, then you should enable ssh on the clients and setup keys
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| 12:58 | until tcm gains a dbus interface
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| 12:58 | unless it already does and i haven't noticed
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| 12:58 | once it does you can just dbus-send
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| 12:59 | <maginot> johnny, Hmm
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| 12:59 | johnny, well, I will sticky to ssh for know
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| 13:00 | <johnny> but.. you will have to force the option to not check host keys, since they change every reboot
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| 13:00 | <maginot> good point.
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| 13:01 | thanks johnny
| |
| 13:01 | <johnny> welcome
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| 13:02 | Remaille has joined #ltsp | |
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| 13:24 | <maginot> have anyone doing something like using a usb token or an smartcard for thinclients login ??
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| 13:28 | <johnny> not me..
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| 13:28 | i don't think ldm can support that yet
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| 13:28 | maginot, theoretically anything supported by ssh will work tho
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| 13:28 | with little effort
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| 13:28 | jammcq has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:29 | <jammcq> hello friends
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| 13:29 | <maginot> Hmmm
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| 13:29 | <johnny> my man jam
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| 13:29 | hello jammcq
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| 13:30 | <jammcq> hey johnny
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| 13:30 | <maginot> today I was looking for security improvements and thought that Smartcards or usbtokens are very interesting, and liked the idea, inicialy for our firewalls and not ltsp servers
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| 13:34 | bobby_C has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:35 | <Lumiere> jammcq: pong
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| 13:38 | <alkisg> Yeah usb sticks would be handy: instead of username/password, each student plugs in a usb stick and logs on automatically :) No more need for ltsp-update-sshkeys!
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| 13:40 | <Gadi> per session Xauthority directories?
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| 13:41 | stgraber: ^^
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| 13:41 | <stgraber> Gadi: yeah
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| 13:41 | <Gadi> how come?
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| 13:41 | <stgraber> Gadi: basically there was an issue when the user can't lock Xauthority
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| 13:42 | <Gadi> ah
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| 13:42 | so the directories have user privs?
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| 13:42 | <stgraber> locking is done by creating a <filename>- file but the user (for localapps) isn't allowed to create a file in /var/run/
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| 13:42 | <johnny> alkisg, you will still need ltsp-update-sshkeys.. not sure how this fixes that problem
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| 13:42 | you still need to know the proper hostkey
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| 13:42 | <stgraber> so that instead creates a directory which is then owned by the user
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| 13:42 | <Gadi> should we not then move it to /tmp?
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| 13:43 | user-writable dirs in /var/run seems evil
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| 13:43 | <stgraber> sbalneav proposed it but I tend to prefer keeping it in /var/run in case we once implement multiple-ldm
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| 13:43 | if it was in ldm anyone could lock anyone's Xauthority
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| 13:44 | <Gadi> you mean if it were in tmp
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| 13:44 | <stgraber> yeah, sorry
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| 13:44 | <alkisg> johnny: the ssh keys are in the chroot, and transfered over the network with either nfs or nbd, and that's insecure, with usb sticks you'd have one key for each user, they wouldn't be transfered over the network. Would need some reworking, but I think it could be done.
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| 13:44 | * Gadi nods | |
| 13:45 | <Gadi> alkisg: SSH_OPTS ;)
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| 13:45 | <alkisg> Amen :)
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| 13:46 | <_UsUrPeR_> ok, need some suggestions
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| 13:47 | having problems using ldap authentication with a client login
| |
| 13:47 | here's the logs I think matter: http://pastebin.com/m1ed300d7
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| 13:49 | <sbalneav> _UsUrPeR_: What's your ldap.conf file look lik?
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| 13:49 | <_UsUrPeR_> when I try loging in, it goes to a black screen :/
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| 13:50 | <sbalneav> can you log in via a text ssh?
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| 13:50 | <_UsUrPeR_> sbalneav: here you go: http://pastebin.com/m38f0e41a
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| 13:54 | <sbalneav> _UsUrPeR_: How are your users defined? in an ou=People or ou=Users?
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| 13:55 | <_UsUrPeR_> ou=users
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| 13:56 | <sbalneav> Is this the first time you've set this up?
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| 13:56 | <_UsUrPeR_> yes
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| 13:56 | see something wrong?
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| 13:58 | <bieb> johnny: you still here?
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| 13:59 | <_UsUrPeR_> sbalneav: ldap works properly for logons with ssh, this is only a problem logging on with thin clients
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| 14:00 | <sbalneav> Do you have libnss-ldap installed?
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| 14:00 | And for me , at least, I need to specify:
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| 14:00 | pam_filter objectclass=posixAccount
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| 14:01 | in my ldap.conf.
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| 14:01 | <_UsUrPeR_> sbalneav: libnss-ldap is installed
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| 14:01 | * _UsUrPeR_ looks for objectclass | |
| 14:02 | <johnny> bieb, have to go right now
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| 14:02 | <bieb> johnny: ok
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| 14:03 | <sbalneav> _UsUrPeR_: quick way to tell if nss is working is in an ssh login, to do an "ls -al".
| |
| 14:03 | if your ldap backed users and group id's are showing up, then that's working.
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| 14:04 | <_UsUrPeR_> here's the results of my home dir: http://pastebin.com/m6cf94712
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| 14:05 | <sbalneav> Well, I'd say the ldap's working then.
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| 14:05 | Can you log in if you create an account local to the machine?
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| 14:06 | i.e. something that's in /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow?
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| 14:06 | <_UsUrPeR_> yes
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| 14:07 | <sbalneav> Anything in .xsession-errors?
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| 14:08 | You haven't got a firewall installed on this machine by chance, do you?
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| 14:09 | <_UsUrPeR_> sbalneav: errors here: http://pastebin.com/m46e884fe
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| 14:09 | sbalneav: no firewall. default ubuntu 9.04 install
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| 14:10 | <sbalneav> Well, it's not *default*, LDAP isn't installed by default :)
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| 14:10 | <_UsUrPeR_> true that :)
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| 14:10 | okok, prior to installing all this stuff I have installed...
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| 14:10 | heh
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| 14:11 | <sbalneav> It's getting X errors, so there's some kind of problem talking to the X display.
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| 14:11 | You could try LDM_DIRECTX=True
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| 14:13 | <_UsUrPeR_> k, trying this out
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| 14:18 | <maginot> alkisg, well, when this became a reality you can be sure that is something we are going to implement here
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| 14:19 | <_UsUrPeR_> sbalneav: no luck. I am able to log on as normal users, just not my LDAP users
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| 14:23 | <sbalneav> Can you log in on the CONSOLE as an ldap user?
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| 14:23 | <_UsUrPeR_> wh- wait
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| 14:23 | looks like I can log in with another ldap user
| |
| 14:23 | ...
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| 14:23 | * _UsUrPeR_ confused now :/ | |
| 14:23 | <_UsUrPeR_> hmm
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| 14:23 | I think I may need to check out ldap further
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| 14:25 | Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:27 | <bieb> anyone here good with setting up wine on ltsp server?
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| 14:45 | <highvoltage> is that something anyone can actually be good with?
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| 14:45 | <matttttt> heh
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| 14:45 | <bieb> true
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| 14:51 | pmatulis has quit IRC | |
| 14:55 | <sbalneav> bieb: What would you like to know?
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| 14:57 | I run wine with ltsp here at Legal Aid.
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| 15:00 | <bieb> ok.. I installed ubuntu 9.04 ltsp... I ran sudo apt-get wine and wine-dev.. When I try to install Office 2007 it fails
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| 15:04 | <sbalneav> define "fail"
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| 15:04 | A little more information please.
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| 15:05 | maginot has quit IRC | |
| 15:05 | <bieb> one sec.. let me get the error message
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| 15:06 | <stgraber> sbalneav: can you merge your patch ? ;) it's the only bit I'm waiting for before tagging ldm, ltsp and ltspfs.
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| 15:06 | <sbalneav> hokay, hold on...
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| 15:08 | elisboa has quit IRC | |
| 15:08 | <bieb> sbalneav: ok.. I copied the Office 2007 install directory to my ltsp server.. I go to command line and type "wine setup.exe" there are a bunch of lines in the CLI that end -stub!, the Office install screen flashes up then is gone followed by a message that says "Setup cannot continue because a required file is either corrupted or not available. Run Setup from the original source disk or download location"
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| 15:08 | elisboa has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:09 | <sbalneav> ....and?
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| 15:09 | elisboa has quit IRC | |
| 15:09 | <sbalneav> did you try running it off the disk? :)
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| 15:10 | stgraber: What's the bug number on this one?
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| 15:11 | I'm commiting my patch and I'll push
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| 15:11 | <bieb> we dont get the disks.. we download from MS directly. The installer works fine on windows machines.. just installed Office2007 on 2 machines yesterday
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| 15:13 | <stgraber> sbalneav: not sure we have a bug report for that
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| 15:13 | <sbalneav> ok, I'll just say the "hang on logout bug"
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| 15:13 | :)
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| 15:14 | <vagrantc> i started noticing a hang-on-logout bug with gnome recently. doesn't appear to affect lxde or icewm.
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| 15:15 | cyberorg has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:15 | <vagrantc> reminds me of http://bugs.debian.org/486007
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| 15:16 | <alkisg> sbalneav: I've reported that, let me see...
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| 15:17 | <sbalneav> stgraber: pushedededed
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| 15:17 | 1163
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| 15:17 | boyeeeeeee
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| 15:17 | <alkisg> sbalneav, vagrantc: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ldm/+bug/375278
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| 15:17 | <sbalneav> yo yo yo ldm patches in dah houseeee boyeeeeeardee
| |
| 15:18 | * sbalneav makes hand signs | |
| 15:18 | <sbalneav> Did I ever tell you guys I'm going to start a rap act?
| |
| 15:18 | Gonna call myself "Plain White Rapper"
| |
| 15:18 | :0
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| 15:18 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: you wouldn't be the first.
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| 15:18 | <_UsUrPeR_> sbalneav: you need a felony sheet prior to starting your rap career
| |
| 15:19 | <vagrantc> how about "Mc Patches"?
| |
| 15:19 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: lol
| |
| 15:19 | <vagrantc> er, MC
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| 15:19 | you'd need a sidekick, though ... perhaps "DJ Diff"
| |
| 15:19 | elisboa has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:19 | <davidj> I think "vagrantc" sounds good for a sidekick
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| 15:19 | <stgraber> sbalneav: yeaaah, thanks
| |
| 15:20 | <sbalneav> Where's Gadi with a "your mamas thin client joke" when you need him
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| 15:21 | <vagrantc> alkisg: looks like greek to me... or is that C?
| |
| 15:21 | <alkisg> vagrantc: it's C, the problem that sbalneav solved with his latest patch
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| 15:21 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 15:21 | <alkisg> ldm was waiting for the wrong process sometimes
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| 15:22 | <vagrantc> we all wait for the wrong things sometimes.
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| 15:22 | <alkisg> So 8 out of 10 times in my lab ldm hanged at logout..
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| 15:22 | Heh :)
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| 15:22 | <jammcq> sbalneav: hey
| |
| 15:24 | <sbalneav> jammcq: ho
| |
| 15:24 | lets go
| |
| 15:24 | <jammcq> i wanna be sedated
| |
| 15:25 | <sbalneav> Caipriana's will do that :)
| |
| 15:25 | <jammcq> yepper
| |
| 15:25 | and... I won't have to drive either :)
| |
| 15:27 | <sbalneav> non, meu amigo
| |
| 15:27 | <jammcq> ah, meu amigo falla um pouco de portugueuse ?
| |
| 15:30 | <sbalneav> não muito
| |
| 15:30 | I had to google the first word
| |
| 15:30 | so I cheated :)
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| 15:30 | <bieb> sbalneav: sorry about that.. got called to a meeting, to show how cool my ltsp server and client are working. now if I get Office2007 and Active Directory auth working I would ROCK!!
| |
| 15:31 | <sbalneav> bieb: did you run winecfg and set up the wine type and the emulation type, etc?
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| 15:32 | <bieb> I ran winecfg.. let me give you the settings
| |
| 15:32 | <sbalneav> I have to qualify, I've never tried to run office 2007 under wine. We just use OpenOffice.
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| 15:33 | <bieb> app settings.. Default settings... at the bottom it has Windows Version WindowsXP
| |
| 15:33 | what other setting would need to be changed?
| |
| 15:34 | <sbalneav> Try windows 2003
| |
| 15:34 | <bieb> same outcome
| |
| 15:35 | even the same with Vista
| |
| 15:35 | and 2008
| |
| 15:37 | <sbalneav> Some googling indicates that office 2007 isn't "quite there yet" as far as wine goes. However, the previous version of office works fine.
| |
| 15:37 | might try office 200<whatever> and see if that works better
| |
| 15:38 | <bieb> cool... I will try an older version
| |
| 15:39 | sbalneav: any experience with Active Directory authentication?
| |
| 15:40 | <sbalneav> http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxlinux/ indicates it supports a bunch of versions
| |
| 15:40 | bieb: nope.
| |
| 15:41 | Active directory's (thankfully) something I've never had to administer.
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| 15:41 | elisboa has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:41 | <bieb> I was thinking of Codeweavers as an option. I was just trying to see if it would work with Wine.. since its free
| |
| 15:41 | <sbalneav> Last version of windows I had any experience with was windows 98
| |
| 15:41 | I gave up windows entirely in 1999
| |
| 15:42 | <bieb> nice
| |
| 15:42 | for codeweavers.. 1 license? or one for each client?
| |
| 15:43 | <sbalneav> I beleive they our buddy Jeremy actually has a server license *specifically* geared to ltsp serevers.
| |
| 15:43 | <matttttt> hey bieb, i looked at this a long time ago but never had time to check it out, it's virtualization instead of emulation, but it lets you run a program in a windows vm without it being attached to a clunky extra "desktop" window somehow
| |
| 15:43 | might fit the bill for you
| |
| 15:43 | http://www.virtualbox.org/
| |
| 15:43 | <sbalneav> Jeremy White's a buddy of ours
| |
| 15:44 | <matttttt> i remember seeing a buddy's mac that had something similar installed and went on a hunt to find something like it.
| |
| 15:45 | <sbalneav> Virtualbox is made by sun.
| |
| 15:45 | a lot of people use it.
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| 15:45 | <bieb> I have used VB before.. and VMware
| |
| 15:45 | <sbalneav> but, you need a full windows license to run under it, as you actually run windows in the virtual machine.
| |
| 15:45 | <matttttt> right
| |
| 15:46 | <bieb> yep
| |
| 15:46 | <matttttt> i've also used vmware a lot, i just always hated that vmware desktop made you run your windows program on top of a visible windows desktop instead of having it sit seamlessly on your x desktop
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| 15:47 | anyways, guess that's a lot of overhead just to run ms office :)
| |
| 15:47 | just use openoffice :)
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| 15:48 | vvinet has quit IRC | |
| 15:48 | <sbalneav> That's the road I'd encourage.
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| 15:49 | spectra has quit IRC | |
| 15:49 | <bieb> I can only fight one Open Source battle at a time... :) I am glad to be able to get LTSP looked at here.. :)
| |
| 15:50 | <sbalneav> phhh, if you're going to fight, might as well go for total war :)
| |
| 15:51 | <bieb> actually.. I enjoy receiving a paycheck.. :D
| |
| 15:51 | <sbalneav> Think of the MONEY you'll save with OpenOffice over MS products
| |
| 15:51 | <bieb> kinda makes paying the bills easier
| |
| 15:51 | <sbalneav> So do I
| |
| 15:52 | I save Legal Aid $670,000cdn per year in licensing and hardware costs.
| |
| 15:52 | <bieb> believe me.. if the ltsp gets done... I will start working on the next item to move it to Linux/OpenSource
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| 15:52 | <sbalneav> That got me a promotion :)
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| 15:57 | <bieb> legal aid in Hamilton? right?
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| 16:08 | <sbalneav> Manitoba
| |
| 16:08 | www.legalaid.mb.ca
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| 16:12 | CAN-o-SPAM has quit IRC | |
| 16:12 | <bieb> are you located in Winnipeg?
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| 16:14 | <sbalneav> Sittin' here right now :)
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| 16:14 | Except when I'm at the cottage.
| |
| 16:14 | Then I'm 80 km north :)
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| 16:15 | <bieb> cool
| |
| 16:15 | <sbalneav> Or when I travel to Brazil. Then I'm several thousand klicks south :)
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| 16:16 | <bieb> :)
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| 16:23 | <vagrantc> stgraber: have you been able to login using LDM_NOMAD and xrdp?
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| 16:24 | stgraber: i was hoping to get that patch reverted if it didn't work for anyone else.
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| 16:24 | <bieb> sbalneav: on your ltsp clients.. do you run Firefox local? or from the server?
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| 16:26 | <stgraber> vagrantc: I never tried NOMAD
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| 16:29 | <vagrantc> stgraber: it's kind of funny.
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| 16:31 | <sbalneav> bieb: from the server
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| 16:31 | Headin' home
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| 16:31 | <jammcq> drive safe
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| 16:32 | <bieb> ok.. during my testing youtube was kinda slow
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| 16:32 | <alkisg> bieb: try with LDM_DIRECTX=true in lts.conf
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| 16:33 | <vagrantc> which disables most security...
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| 16:33 | <bieb> ok.. will look at that.. not currently using lts.conf file
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| 16:33 | <alkisg> See the docs to read about the speed vs security implications (link in the topic)
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| 16:34 | <bieb> ok
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| 16:43 | <bieb> time to head out also.. catch everyone tomorrow
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| 16:45 | <stgraber> hmm, ldm FTBFSed on karmic
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| 16:48 | <stgraber> sbalneav: around ?
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| 16:48 | sbalneav: http://paste.ubuntu.com/187691/
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| 16:51 | <vagrantc> looks like i may get my chance to revert the nomad patch
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| 16:51 | <stgraber> vagrantc: yeah, go ahead, I'm pretty sure we'll have another ldm released today anyway ;)
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| 16:56 | <vagrantc> !seen sbalneav
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| 16:56 | <ltspbot> vagrantc: sbalneav was last seen in #ltsp 24 minutes and 32 seconds ago: <sbalneav> Headin' home
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| 16:59 | <stgraber> ok, we'll catch him a bit later
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| 19:34 | <sbalneav> stgraber: Pushed up a fix.
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| 19:34 | I developed the fix on hardy
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| 19:35 | <stgraber> sbalneav: thanks
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| 19:39 | sshutils.o: In function `ssh_session':
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| 19:39 | /home/stgraber/code/ldm-test/src/sshutils.c:267: undefined reference to `pthread_create'
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| 19:39 | sbalneav: ^
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| 19:39 | collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
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| 19:39 | <sbalneav> Hm
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| 19:40 | On hardy it compiles fine.
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| 19:40 | Maybe libpthread needs to be linked against?
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| 19:40 | one sec...
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| 19:41 | <stgraber> (I'm building on karmic so a lot of things are probably different)
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| 19:41 | <vagrantc> alsa, building in a clean chroot can often make a big difference
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| 19:41 | <stgraber> indeed
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| 19:42 | <sbalneav> I have an old hardy tree
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| 19:42 | I just make my fixes
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| 19:42 | do a make
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| 19:43 | then cp ldm /opt/ltsp/i386....
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| 19:43 | :)
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| 19:43 | <stgraber> hehe
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| 19:45 | <sbalneav> What happens if you change the src/Makefile.am to read: AM_CPPFLAGS = $(GLIB_CFLAGS) \
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| 19:45 | argh
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| 19:46 | AM_CPPFLAGS = -pthread $(GLIB_CFLAGS) \
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| 19:46 | try that
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| 19:49 | <stgraber> no difference
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| 19:49 | <sbalneav> You'd need to re-run autogen.sh and ./configure, btw
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| 19:49 | Hold on, let me fire up a jaunty box, since ldm-trunk doesn't configure anymore on hardy
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| 19:49 | <stgraber> yeah, I did a new export, changed Makefile.am then autogen/configure/make
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| 19:50 | <sbalneav> On hardy:
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| 19:50 | checking for intltool >= 0.35.0... awk: cmd. line:1: fatal: cannot open file `./intltool-update.in' for reading (No such file or directory)
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| 19:50 | awk: cmd. line:1: fatal: cannot open file `./intltool-update.in' for reading (No such file or directory) found
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| 19:50 | <sbalneav> ./configure: line 4917: test: : integer expression expected
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| 19:50 | configure: error: Your intltool is too old. You need intltool 0.35.0 or later.
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| 19:51 | <stgraber> apt-get build-depend ldm, then sh autogen.sh should work
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| 19:51 | at least it does here
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| 19:52 | <sbalneav> root@feniks:~# apt-get build-dep ldm
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| 19:52 | Reading package lists... Done
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| 19:52 | Building dependency tree
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| 19:52 | Reading state information... Done
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| 19:52 | 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
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| 19:52 | Bzzzt :)
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| 19:52 | hold on, jaunty box booting
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| 19:57 | <stgraber> sbalneav: manually adding -pthread in the Makefile worked though, just need to find where to put it in Makefile.am
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| 20:01 | <BenChapman> Hello, all. Does anyone here have any experience with Wyse S50 thin clients and LTSP?
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| 20:01 | <sbalneav> stgraber: try 1167
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| 20:03 | BenChapman: No, but it looks like it comes with it's own version of Linux
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| 20:03 | Perhaps if you wanted to, you could simply enable XDMCP on your servers, and use them that way.
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| 20:05 | <BenChapman> sbalneav: It does, and supports XDMCP along with other stuff. I've been experimenting with PXE-booting it as a traditional LTSP client, which works. It's a Geode at 500Mhz. Overall performance is fine, with the exception of Flash, which is *very* slow, 1-2 frames/sec.
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| 20:06 | <sbalneav> On a geode, not surprising.
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| 20:06 | So, don't use flash :)
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| 20:06 | <BenChapman> I saw an archived message which mentions that it will load the vesa X driver r/n nsc. Would the nsc driver give significantly better performance than Vesa?
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| 20:07 | <sbalneav> BenChapman: Try it and see.
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| 20:07 | <BenChapman> :) - right - except that our University's home page starts up in Flash, which I don't have any control over. I will try the nsc driver. I am still using 4.2 b/c we have some Jammin 125 clients that I cannot get to work under LTSP 5.
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| 20:10 | <stgraber> sbalneav: worked
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| 20:12 | <sbalneav> BenChapman: Not to try to steer you towards anything else, but with motherboards like this available:
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| 20:13 | http://www.mini-box.com/Intel-D945GSEJT-Mini-ITX-Motherboard;jsessionid=0a0109491f436f3cb4049be146c8b0f1b5ddb46ad657.e3eSc38LcheTe34Pa38Ta38MaNb0?sc=8&category=100
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| 20:13 | And a cheap case like so:
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| 20:13 | http://www.mini-box.com/M350-universal-mini-itx-enclosure?sc=8&category=87
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| 20:14 | Couple that with a $25 1 gig ram stick, why would you look at a wyse
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| 20:14 | and if you want a name brand out of the box solution:
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| 20:15 | http://www.disklessworkstations.com/cgi-bin/prod/200118.html?id=7LKjxY8z
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| 20:15 | Just seems that beating a wyse into submission would be a lot more work :)
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| 20:16 | All of those have intel graphics chipsets that work flawlessly out of the box with no fancy mods needed. On ltsp5
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| 20:17 | <BenChapman> sbalneav: All true. And there's even http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883220004. It's just that we have 10 of the Wyse boxes here as well as six of the old Jammin LTSP workstations. But you're completely right - at the end of the day, the Atom/Intel GMA probably makes the most sense.
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| 20:19 | <sbalneav> If your doing this for a university, your *TIME* costs money too. Both in time to get a custom solution set up, *AND* time in having to maintain an old 4.2 installation that more and more... every day... gets further and further beeehhhiiiiiiind.
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| 20:20 | Or, just get all happy shiny new stuff, upgrade to the latest ltsp5 with localapps and bling. And be the hero!
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| 20:20 | The choice is clear :)
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| 20:23 | <BenChapman> ;) Absolutely! Now I see the light - Thanks for the info and the links; I really like that case.
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| 20:24 | Good-night all.
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| 20:24 | <sbalneav> Another satisfied customer :)
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| 20:29 | AFK for a bit, got some errands to do.
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| 21:47 | <pmatulis> which ubuntu release first featured LTSP5?
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| 21:48 | <vagrantc> breezy badger ... 5.10?
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| 21:49 | but it was pretty crude back then.
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| 21:49 | <pmatulis> thanks
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| 21:50 | thin client sessions are now encrypted?
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| 21:51 | <vagrantc> have been since the beginning
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| 21:51 | for ltsp5
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| 21:51 | <pmatulis> via SSH right?
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| 21:51 | <vagrantc> yeah
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| 21:51 | <pmatulis> there is also a secureless mode, how do you neuter SSH?
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| 21:52 | <vagrantc> log in through ssh, but set the DISPLAY variable to just use X over tcp.
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| 21:52 | <pmatulis> nice
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| 21:53 | <vagrantc> requires a little trickery with xauth and freinds... just to have the slightest bit of security.
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| 21:54 | <pmatulis> this secure tunnel is made prior to LDM kicking in? i'm a bit confused about interaction of SSH and LDM
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| 21:54 | <vagrantc> LDM creates the tunnel
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| 21:54 | <pmatulis> ah ok
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| 21:54 | LDM is running on the client
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| 21:54 | <vagrantc> yes
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| 21:55 | ldm asks for user/password, ssh'es to the server as that user and starts a session.
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| 21:56 | <pmatulis> with X11 forwarding set?
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| 21:56 | <vagrantc> yeah. basically, ldm is a GUI frotend for "ssh -X user@server /etc/X11/Xsession"
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| 21:57 | although we started using ssh -Y a while back. never quite understood why. same basic thing.
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| 22:02 | <vagrantc> stgraber: uploaded ldm 2.0.42 yet?
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| 22:03 | <stgraber> yes
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| 22:03 | should be in karmic already
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| 22:05 | <vagrantc> found it...
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| 22:19 | <pmatulis> vagrantc: thanks for that info
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| 22:31 | <vagrantc> well, ldm 2.0.42 builds for me. haven't tested it.
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