IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 14 July 2015 (all times are UTC)
| 00:14 | <cstk421> after running the build client config both with and without --arch i386. I dont have an i386 folder in the tftpboot folder. I also do not have the pxelinux.0 files in the amd folder. thoughtss ?
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| 00:15 | <maldridge> so you ran ltsp-build-client --arch i386 and did not get the expected tftp files?
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| 00:18 | <cstk421> right
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| 00:18 | bunch of files are missing actually.. the ltsp.conf is missing too. the whole i386
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| 00:18 | wierd
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| 00:19 | <maldridge> distro/version/guide (if any)
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| 00:19 | <cstk421> this guide https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall#Installing_on_top_of_an_already_running_desktop_system
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| 00:19 | ubuntu server 15.04
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| 00:20 | ltsp-config 5.5.1-1ubuntu3
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| 00:21 | <maldridge> hmm, that should work
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| 00:21 | no errors were given?
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| 00:21 | <cstk421> no sir
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| 00:22 | im gonna try and rebuild again and see what it does
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| 00:22 | <maldridge> yeah that is wierd, I would definitly try a rebuild
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| 00:22 | <cstk421> ok
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| 00:26 | maldridge: so i went to build it and it said that /opt/ltsp/i386 already exists. so i removed it and ran the build again. Is it not supposed to drop the pxelinux.0 files and such in the tftpboot folder ?
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| 00:27 | <maldridge> they should wind up in /var/lib/tftpboot on ubuntu
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| 00:27 | in your case /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/
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| 00:27 | <cstk421> right thats where i was looking
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| 00:27 | guess we will see if this rebuild fixes it
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| 00:40 | <cstk421> maldridge: ok so the rebuild sais it was successful
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| 00:40 | maldridge: it did create the right directories
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| 01:03 | <cstk421> rebuilt the client configs but still no pxelinux.0 images
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| 01:04 | have nothing to boot from tftp
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| 01:20 | <maldridge> that is strange
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| 01:21 | <maldridge> hm, my configs go about installing ltsp a different way, so I'm not sure I can help much furthur
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| 01:27 | <cstk421> are you using ubuntu 15 ? that would help to know
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| 01:27 | cause i last time i built this on 14.04 i didnt have this issue
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| 01:29 | <maldridge> I'm running on 14.04, but I'm also using pnp
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| 01:40 | <cstk421> whats pnp ?
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| 01:51 | <maldridge> !ltsp-pnp
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| 01:51 | <ltsp`> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 01:51 | <maldridge> that^
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| 01:53 | <cstk421> copy that
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| 01:53 | reading up on it now
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| 01:57 | <maldridge> it works a lot better if you just have on architecture, but it makes it way easier because no chroots
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| 02:04 | <cstk421> guess i dont understand the whole chroots thing for it to make sense
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| 02:04 | been reading up on it
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| 02:15 | <maldridge> do you understand what a chroot is in general?
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| 02:19 | <cstk421> now i do
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| 02:19 | more or less a container
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| 02:21 | <maldridge> yeah, its sort of a disk without actually being a disk, the pnp method does away with that and templates from the server's own rootfs
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| 02:21 | as a result though, its bound to the server's architecture
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| 02:22 | <cstk421> which is why the guides ive seen for pnp are 32 bit
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| 02:22 | makes sense
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| 02:22 | unless you know for sure your running all 64 bit arch
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| 02:23 | <maldridge> yeah, I have a special case system that does 64-bit, but its only used for one lab
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| 02:23 | <cstk421> are you deploying the linux desktops to users ? apps only ? or rdp ?
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| 02:27 | <maldridge> my 32-bit setups are full desktop environments
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| 02:27 | my 64 bit setup is just steam
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| 02:37 | <cstk421> got it
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| 12:57 | <FrozenZia> Hola -- having some trouble with a tiny "test" LTSP network we're working with.
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| 12:57 | Client has hard drive and boots to it just fine, gets an IP from DHCP server in router.
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| 12:58 | But trying to boot same client from network, it does *not* seem to get IP from DHCP server in router.
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| 13:04 | <FrozenZia> got it.
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| 13:06 | /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf needed some editing.
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| 13:10 | With the dhcp-server elsewhere, I thought the client just gets an IP and that's it, but apparently the LTSP-server has something to do with it in the interim.
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| 13:21 | Specifically, we needed to change this line to reflect our IP-address range: dhcp-range=192.168.0.0,proxy
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| 15:29 | <work_alkisg> FrozenZia: ltsp-config dnsmasq --overwrite
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| 15:29 | work_alkisg is now known as alkisg | |
| 15:29 | <alkisg> This creates the correct dnsmasq configuration
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| 15:30 | If your router can be configured to send the boot filename and root path, then a proxydhcp dnsmasq configuration isn't needed
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| 15:33 | <markit> hi alkisg, I hope you are well in these hard times
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| 15:34 | <alkisg> Hi markit, trying to :)
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| 15:34 | How are you?
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| 15:37 | <markit> Scared for the future at 360° but I'm fine, thanks
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| 15:37 | if there is something I can do to help you now or in the future, don't hesitate to ask (don't know if I will be able to help, but do ask)
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| 15:41 | * markit quits and goes home from work, another day of normal IT troubles is gone :) | |
| 15:42 | <markit> alkisg: see you :)
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| 16:10 | <cstk421> what is the ubuntu splash login screen called when pxe boot to ltsp ?
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| 16:11 | my goal is to have users log in to that portal and it direct them to their VM via xfreerdp from any thinclient. how would you guys suggest doing that ?
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| 16:21 | <alkisg> cstk421: do you mean the splash screen, which is called plymouth, or the login screen, which is called ldm?
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| 16:21 | <cstk421> alkisg: i discovered its called LDM yes
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| 16:21 | <alkisg> Each user has his own windows VM?
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| 16:21 | <cstk421> yes
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| 16:21 | <alkisg> Or one server VM with terminal services enabled?
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| 16:21 | <cstk421> or server 2012 session
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| 16:21 | havent decided
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| 16:21 | for now prob their own vm's
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| 16:21 | <alkisg> What are the client specs?
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| 16:21 | <cstk421> core i5's
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| 16:22 | lol
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| 16:22 | <alkisg> Then why not run the VM locally?
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| 16:22 | <cstk421> fat client you mean ?
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| 16:22 | <alkisg> One VM for all users, with a per-user snapshot on top of them
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| 16:22 | Well, ltsp thin clients with vbox as a localapp
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| 16:22 | So yes, it would be fat...
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| 16:22 | <cstk421> whats the advantage ?
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| 16:22 | <alkisg> !flash
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| 16:22 | <ltsp`> flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
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| 16:23 | <alkisg> Imagine 2.5 gpbs per client...
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| 16:23 | And, a 40 core server for 10 clients
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| 16:23 | That's the xfreerdp way, vs the vbox way, which doesn't strain the network and uses local cpu
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| 16:23 | <cstk421> xfreerdp uses flash ?
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| 16:23 | <alkisg> No, but videos are the same
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| 16:24 | When you scroll a web page it's the same as watching a video
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| 16:24 | <cstk421> so its basically streaming a video is your point
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| 16:24 | yeah gotcha
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| 16:24 | <alkisg> Yes that's what remote desktops do...
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| 16:24 | <cstk421> i have to say i ran a few and never saw lag or any issues that way
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| 16:24 | interesting
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| 16:24 | <alkisg> Have you tried 10 clients watching youtube?
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| 16:24 | <cstk421> so any form of rdp sessions wil behave the same
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| 16:24 | no i havent
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| 16:24 | i admit
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| 16:25 | <alkisg> There are some ways to speed up things
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| 16:25 | Windows remotefx tries to find the video source and let the client render it
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| 16:25 | <cstk421> ok
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| 16:25 | <alkisg> and xvideo uses 12 bpp
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| 16:25 | But essentially yeah remote desktop is too much for simple gigabit networks
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| 16:26 | <cstk421> wow this is the first im hearing this. none of the forums or docs ive read mentioned this
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| 16:26 | that sucks
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| 16:26 | <alkisg> Well, the solution I mentioned is pretty simpler than the one you had in mind...
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| 16:28 | <cstk421> One VM for all users, with a per-user snapshot on top of them
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| 16:28 | explain how that is setup please
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| 16:28 | would that be a 2012 vm and each user has their own profile ?
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| 16:29 | <alkisg> A windows 10 vm, with a single user called "user"
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| 16:29 | And a shared folder that would map to /home/user1/Documents
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| 16:29 | or to /home/user2/Documents
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| 16:29 | The users would login normally with LDM so they would have access to /home/userX normally with sshfs
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| 16:30 | And their snapshot would be in /home/user1/VirtualBox VMs/xxx, and would be read-write, with a read-only base on /home/Shared/yyy
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| 16:30 | The /home/Shared could be mounted with LOCALAPPS_EXTRA_MOUNTS, or even with nbd for more speed
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| 16:31 | So basically you only need a small script in the server, /usr/share/xsessions/windows-vm.desktop, that manages their login
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| 16:32 | <cstk421> i have to say thats beyond my limited experience so far with ltsp
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| 16:32 | any chance there are guides for this type of deployment ?
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| 16:32 | what would you refer to it as ?
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| 16:32 | <alkisg> No, I don't think so... I gave a workshop about that a month ago, but it was greek-only :)
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| 16:32 | <cstk421> nice
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| 16:33 | so i assume youve done this with win 10 ?
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| 16:33 | <alkisg> With windows 7
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| 16:33 | <cstk421> how are all these companies running thinclients hundreds of them the same way i want to ? massive networks ?
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| 16:33 | <alkisg> It'd be nice to commit such a script upstream, but I _really_ don't like promoting closed-source solutions, do I never took the time to implement it upstream
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| 16:33 | Lower requirements
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| 16:33 | <cstk421> i see
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| 16:34 | what do you mean by closed source solutions ?
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| 16:34 | <alkisg> I help in maintaining these schools' computer labs: http://www.ltsp.org/stories/widget-map/?location=Greece
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| 16:35 | If I proposed a windows-based solution to them, they would need one license for each client,
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| 16:35 | <cstk421> oh ok i see
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| 16:35 | <alkisg> and, with the crisis and all, they'd just use pirated windows
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| 16:35 | <cstk421> lol
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| 16:35 | definitely would be expensive
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| 16:35 | this is a small law firm and they would sh** a brick if i tried to move them to linux
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| 16:36 | <alkisg> With the windows-vm-over-ltsp solution, they would only see LDM, no linux at all
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| 16:36 | <cstk421> that makes sense
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| 16:36 | i was really hoping to do this over the LAN but based on what your telling me that wont be possible
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| 16:36 | that really sucks. especially considering the time i spent on it :)
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| 16:36 | <alkisg> And it's very easy to maintain it afterwards, because you only maintain one single VM with windows pro, not server
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| 16:37 | windows-vm-over-ltsp *is* over the LAN
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| 16:37 | Diskless computers, netbooted
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| 16:37 | <cstk421> ok now im confused again
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| 16:37 | so how is it a fat client ?
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| 16:37 | sorry
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| 16:37 | <alkisg> Fat clients in the ltsp vocabulary are diskless netbooted clients that use their own cpu
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| 16:38 | thins use the server cpu
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| 16:38 | standalone clients are what you were referring as fat
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| 16:38 | <cstk421> ah
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| 16:38 | <alkisg> I.e. the ones with a disk and a local OS
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| 16:38 | <cstk421> so the ones in your example are connecting to the windows 10 vm via what protocol / method ?
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| 16:38 | <alkisg> So in the solution I said, there's only one ltsp server installation, and a single windows vm, on a single disk.
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| 16:38 | No other disks in the whole computer lab, just one
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| 16:38 | <cstk421> ok
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| 16:39 | <alkisg> In LTSP, the root disk is access via NFS or NBD
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| 16:39 | <cstk421> the shared home directories can be on the file server i assume
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| 16:39 | <alkisg> The home directory via SSHFS or NFS
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| 16:39 | <cstk421> ok
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| 16:50 | <cstk421> alkisg: for the user home directories can that be stored on a ms server running NFS ? or is that a bad idea ?
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| 16:50 | alkisg: once they are in the vm the network drives will work the same so i assume thats not an issue.
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| 16:50 | <alkisg> If the server is stable, sure
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| 16:51 | You can even serve the nbd image and tftp over windows, so that you don't actually need an ltsp server at all
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| 16:51 | or you can use nfs instead of nbd...
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| 16:51 | <cstk421> meaning running windows server for TS ?
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| 16:51 | i assume i still need PXE fucntionality for this to work
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| 16:51 | functionality*
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| 16:52 | <alkisg> Yes, windows can easily support that
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| 16:53 | <championofcyrodi> if i want a whole new image specific lts.conf and IMG, do i just run ltsp-build-client a second time, with a different name (e.g. amd64-v2), and update the DHCP server to use an alternate TFTP PXE linux config?
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| 16:54 | <cstk421> i would assume using ltsp for user management would be much easier. with windows i would have to go active directory
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| 16:54 | <championofcyrodi> i'm guessing the new pxe config would show up in something like, /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64-v2
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| 16:54 | ?
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| 16:55 | cstk421: ltsp is not a replacement for AD
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| 16:55 | <alkisg> cstk421: it depends, for example if you have 1 user per computer with autologin then it's pretty simple :) But yes in the general case, managing users in the ltsp server is much easier
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| 16:55 | championofcyrodi: please explain with more words your use case
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| 16:55 | <cstk421> championofcyrodi: yes i understand that but to get the same simple user management i need LTSP would be a lot easier then AD
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| 16:56 | <championofcyrodi> i have 40 clients in use with a single image called 'amd64' (fat client)
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| 16:56 | i would like to create a separate image to 'test'
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| 16:57 | we are integrating active directory authentication (kerberos, etc.) with a separate store for home folders which will use NFSv4.
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| 16:57 | (instead of sshfs)
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| 16:57 | so we would like to utilize the existing server, with a different image and lts.conf.
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| 16:57 | <alkisg> So you need a different image *and* a different lts.conf?
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| 16:57 | <championofcyrodi> right.
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| 16:58 | i see this:
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| 16:58 | found: /opt/ltsp/amd64/etc/lts.conf
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| 16:58 | found: /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64/lts.conf
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| 16:58 | found image: /opt/ltsp/images/amd64.img
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| 16:58 | <alkisg> OK, then yes start by cp -a /opt/ltsp/amd64 /opt/ltsp/amd64-test, and then edit it, run ltsp-update-image etc
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| 16:58 | <championofcyrodi> which implies the previous fat client i build 'amd64' is already self contained.
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| 16:58 | <alkisg> Don't use /opt/ltsp/amd64/etc/lts.conf
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| 16:58 | Only use the one from tftp
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| 16:58 | Delete the other one
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| 16:58 | <championofcyrodi> gotcha, i think i've see that in the file header.
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| 16:59 | i have a meeting to go to at the moment, i will continue reading whatever you type when i return.
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| 16:59 | * alkisg doesn't have anything else to reply to :) | |
| 17:02 | <cstk421> alkisg: hey thank you for all your help. I am going to go the route you suggested. Ill admin i will definitely need help if your around. Im setting up a win 10 vm now :)
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| 17:27 | <alkisg> You're welcome, but unfortunately the correct thing to do here would be to commit support for this upstream, and I really don't have reasons to do so... :)
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| 17:27 | * alkisg waves | |
| 17:27 | alkisg is now known as work_alkisg | |
| 17:34 | <cstk421> understood thanks
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| 18:23 | <championofcyrodi> alkisg: i'm curious about after copying the /opt/ltsp/amd64 image folder to something like /opt/ltsp/amd64-test, how with testing a seperate /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/ to provide alternative initrd/kernel parameters?
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| 18:26 | <championofcyrodi> if I re-run ltsp-build-client with --base amd64-test, would that not also create a new image, and also a new /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64-test configuration? I would like to specify the MAC address for 1 client in DHCP to utilize an alternate tftpboot path.
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| 18:26 | my understanding is that if I use the existing /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64 configuration, it will just boot my amd64 image.
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| 19:47 | <nahoskins> hey im getting the failed to mount error
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| 19:47 | resulting in being dropped to initramfs prompts
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| 19:48 | all ive found online is from a year or more ago
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| 19:48 | im using ltsp-pnp
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| 20:02 | <maldridge> nahoskins: can you confirm that the resource you are trying to mount exists?
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| 20:14 | <nahoskins> the nbd server?
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| 20:14 | its running
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| 20:15 | <maldridge> yes, but can you mount it on say, your laptop?
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| 20:16 | <nahoskins> im on the arch macbook right now
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| 20:16 | i can try mounting it from the server
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| 20:16 | what is it /dev/nbd0?
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| 20:17 | <maldridge> mounting from the server can cause wierd race conditions, I'm pretty sure nbd is in the aur
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| 20:56 | <nahoskins> ok
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| 20:56 | kids have gone
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| 20:56 | ive got an hour before the janitor comes round to lock up
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| 20:56 | who can help me troubleshoot this
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| 20:56 | <maldridge> oh, did this happen during your camp?
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| 20:56 | <nahoskins> hehe
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| 20:56 | yep
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| 20:57 | <maldridge> ouch, I'm in class, but I can help off and on until the quiz
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| 20:57 | <nahoskins> ...
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| 20:57 | ok so ive just disconnected the rest of the lab
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| 20:57 | set up a test client
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| 20:57 | <nahoskins> and its just... botted to ldm
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| 20:57 | so...
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| 20:57 | what gives
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| 20:57 | <maldridge> so it worked fully, or your volume is still missing
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| 20:58 | <nahoskins> seems to be working 100%
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| 20:58 | so now I have to start connecting machines
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| 20:58 | <maldridge> has ubuntu run through any updates recently
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| 20:58 | <nahoskins> yeah
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| 20:58 | <nahoskins> today it updated
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| 20:58 | <maldridge> hrm, I wonder if the nbd-server was restarted as part of the update
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| 20:58 | that would account for clients just loosing the connection
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| 20:59 | <nahoskins> the clients were all conencted, then i had trouble with one
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| 20:59 | restarted the nbd
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| 20:59 | and then NONE would connect
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| 20:59 | they were all giving me errors about mounting
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| 20:59 | none of them were mounting the nbd
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| 20:59 | and i was completely flummoxed
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| 21:00 | <maldridge> so nbd works in 2 parts, there is the local mount, but there's also the nbd-client that creates the file device in /dev
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| 21:00 | if you restart the nbd-server, all the nbd-clients are kicked out and have no way to re-attach
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| 21:00 | <nahoskins> rebooting did nothing
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| 21:01 | <maldridge> uhh, that is interesting
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| 21:01 | <nahoskins> rebooted them all, pulled the cord out cuz i read somewhere maybe it was the memory not clearing
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| 21:01 | nothing
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| 21:02 | <maldridge> did you have the expected devices in /dev?
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| 21:02 | <nahoskins> until I give up, stick a movie on
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| 21:02 | <maldridge> i.e. /dev/nbd0
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| 21:02 | <nahoskins> luckilly it was at the end of camp
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| 21:02 | i have nbd0-15
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| 21:03 | <maldridge> yeah, but how many of those are valid
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| 21:03 | the device will stick around even if the connection is truncated
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| 21:03 | <nahoskins> hey
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| 21:03 | could this be because im using a raid set up???
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| 21:03 | with LVM
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| 21:03 | <maldridge> that should all be transparent once you get out to the clients
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| 21:03 | I'm assuming the raid/lvm is on the server
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| 21:03 | <nahoskins> yes
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| 21:03 | i cant see how
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| 21:04 | whats the best way to test for false nbds
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| 21:04 | all i can think of is lsblk
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| 21:04 | <maldridge> the only time I've seen something like this before is when the network has been interrupted while I was connected to the server
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| 21:04 | lsblk would show you mounts, but not if they are valid
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| 21:05 | I think nbd-client has a way to do that, but I don't have nbd tools on my laptop, so I can't easily check
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| 21:05 | <nahoskins> hold on
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| 21:07 | well the client has nbd0 mounted to /rofs
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| 21:08 | could it be a problem with the number of clients trying to connect???
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| 21:08 | <maldridge> well, that is normal, but I am betting that nbd0 wasn't actually attatched to anything
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| 21:08 | <nahoskins> the server has 16GB of RAM
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| 21:08 | its in raid config
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| 21:08 | so I'd have thought a dozen clients would be no poroblem
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| 21:08 | <maldridge> you're doing minecraft, right?
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| 21:08 | <nahoskins> yes
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| 21:08 | <maldridge> local or server side?
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| 21:08 | <nahoskins> that was working flawlessly before
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| 21:08 | local
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| 21:08 | <maldridge> shouldn't be ram then
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| 21:09 | <nahoskins> its ltsp-pnp
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| 21:09 | and its all fat client
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| 21:09 | <maldridge> definitly not ram
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| 21:09 | <nahoskins> the server is just really for nbd
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| 21:09 | so .. wth
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| 21:10 | im just going to start connecting the switches
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| 21:10 | see if maybe theres... something wrong there
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| 21:10 | <maldridge> wait
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| 21:10 | are these the switches the lab normally has?
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| 21:10 | or did you bring these in?
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| 21:11 | * maldridge bets on a loopback somewhere | |
| 21:14 | <alkisg> nahoskins: are you using ipappend 3?
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| 21:14 | Or, check for rogue dhcp servers...
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| 21:20 | <maldridge> back in a bit
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| 22:04 | <nahoskins> i brought them in
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| 22:04 | gigabit ethernet switches all using cat 6
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| 22:04 | ok, so for the last two hours of camp
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| 22:04 | none of the machines would boot
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| 22:04 | I have done nothing since then, other than google and turn on cosmos
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| 22:04 | now
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| 22:04 | two hours after the end of camp
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| 22:04 | i have methodically gone through the lab
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| 22:05 | disconnecting everything
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| 22:05 | reconnecting everything
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| 22:05 | i have almost the entire lab booting
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| 22:05 | i have no idea what changed
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| 22:06 | maybe the switches overheat?!
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| 22:06 | I cant think of anything
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| 22:06 | theories, paranoid or not, are welcome
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| 22:07 | maybe its the NSA
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| 22:11 | <maldridge> no, switches shouldn't overheat like that. I guess its possible you could saturate them, depending on the throughput of the backplane
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| 22:11 | I still think there was a loopback or something similar in the network somewhere
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| 22:36 | <nahoskins> I have no idea
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| 22:36 | also suddenly gnome-fallback is working
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| 22:36 | before it was limping along
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| 22:37 | all in all... its ALL suddenly working
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| 22:37 | I have no idea what changed
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| 22:37 | I really hope it stays just as it is over night
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| 22:37 | I need to get home
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| 22:37 | thanks for the support
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| 22:39 | i wish you could image life
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| 22:39 | one day..
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| 22:42 | <maldridge> good luck with it
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