IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 26 August 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 03:47 | <darthanubis> Is there a way I can install ltsp WITHOUT Unity as the default kit? Can I choose which desktop enviroment?
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| 03:54 | <stgraber> ltsp simply uses whatever you have on the server
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| 03:56 | <darthanubis> right, but ubuntu ltsp-standalone package pulls in Ubuntu/unity
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| 03:56 | I guess I have to just install ltsp-server, then from there install the desktop I prefer?
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| 03:57 | <stgraber> ltsp-server-standalone doesn't pull unity at all
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| 03:58 | it depends on one of "gnome-session | x-session-manager | x-window-manager"
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| 03:58 | x-session-manager and x-window-manager should be provided by any other desktop environment, so as long as the environment you want is installed on the system before ltsp, it shouldn't pull gnome
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| 04:00 | <stgraber> based on what's in the ubuntu archive, "apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone gnome-session-fallback" shouldn't be pulling unity
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| 04:00 | gnome-session-fallback can also be replaced by xfce4-session, openbox, lxsession, ...
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| 04:00 | (anything providing x-session-manager or x-window-manager)
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| 04:47 | <darthanubis> stgraber,it pulls in unity as the default
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| 04:48 | clearly if you run the command you'd see that
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| 04:50 | so a sudo apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone xfce4-session should not pull unity?
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| 04:58 | <shawnp0wers> I have a question, but I need to head to bed, so I'll look back later if anyone has any ideas... :)
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| 04:58 | For some reason, all my thin clients running edubuntu 12.04 can log in, but after the login/password screen, I just see a white screen with the spinning circle.
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| 04:58 | I've updated sshkeys, kernels, and image
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| 04:59 | can log into the server via ssh as a user
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| 04:59 | but for some reason, the ldm screen never logs into a desktop
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| 05:13 | <shawnp0wers> More details... if I reboot the LTSP server, *one* person can log in from a thin client, then any subsequent login attempts from thin clients (including that same user) just get a white screen and spinning circle after they enter their username and password
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| 05:13 | I'm really stumped...
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| 05:17 | <alkisg> shawnp0wers: are you using unity? try selecting unity-2d from the ldm preferences menu before you login
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| 05:17 | <shawnp0wers> I'm using gnome-fallback
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| 05:18 | <alkisg> How did you enforce that?
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| 05:18 | <shawnp0wers> with lts.conf
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| 05:18 | <alkisg> Specifically?
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| 05:18 | <shawnp0wers> I'll copy paste, hang on
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| 05:18 | * darthanubis pastebin? | |
| 05:18 | <shawnp0wers> LDM_SESSION="gnome-session --session=gnome-fallback"
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| 05:19 | <alkisg> shawnp0wers: And there's no right click menu on that white screen?
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| 05:19 | <shawnp0wers> rebooting thin client, hang on
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| 05:19 | <cyberorg> alkisg, hi, how do i get commit access to bzr?
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| 05:20 | <alkisg> shawnp0wers: Also, some output that might help: tail /var/log/auth.log to verify that the user has indeed logged in, and ps aux on the server to see which processes the user has run so far when he sees that white screen
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| 05:20 | cyberorg: you should already have access, no?
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| 05:21 | cyberorg: https://launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/+members#active
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| 05:22 | ...we need to put you in that team :)
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| 05:22 | <shawnp0wers> Here's the auth.log: http://pastebin.com/Mu3gasKh
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| 05:23 | <cyberorg> alkisg, i'd need some bzr help, i made a change to bzr branch, and bzr commit, how do i push it?
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| 05:23 | <alkisg> cyberorg: first send a mail to the ltsp-developers team so that some of the team administrators puts you there
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| 05:23 | I don't have access to do so, I'm just a member
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| 05:23 | <shawnp0wers> Here's the ps aux: http://pastebin.com/ZfajQcgf
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| 05:24 | Still getting the white screen, with unity-2d as well. Not sure what is stopping users from logging in...
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| 05:25 | <cyberorg> see the last email on ltsp-developer list
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| 05:25 | <alkisg> shawnp0wers: I think there are left-over processes there, can you kill all processes from that user and retry login/ps ?
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| 05:26 | cyberorg: yup, just point vagrantc to https://launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/+members#active and tell him that you don't have commit access and to include you as a team member
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| 05:26 | cyberorg: when that's done, ping me for bzr help :)
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| 05:26 | <shawnp0wers> alkisg: Yep, pkill'ing the user allows a login.
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| 05:26 | lemme log out, and see what is still running...
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| 05:28 | <alkisg> shawnp0wers: yup, try a clean logout, check processes, then login, and check if it works or not
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| 05:28 | Then paste processes
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| 05:28 | <shawnp0wers> weird.
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| 05:28 | No processes after logout
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| 05:28 | but user can't log in (white page, spinning circle after authentication)
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| 05:28 | If I pkill the user, THEN logging in works again, but only for a single user
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| 05:29 | will paste what processes *do* start, hang on
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| 05:29 | <alkisg> So this is correct? login works, clean logout, no processes, login doesn't work, pkill user, login works?!
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| 05:30 | Any weird configuration? In lts.conf, in sshd_config...
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| 05:31 | <cyberorg> alkisg, i know how to use bzr, but was expecting a branch where i can push, then ltsp-upstream can merge from, like github/gitorius
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| 05:31 | <alkisg> cyberorg: ah, you can push anywhere you like and do a merge request
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| 05:31 | <shawnp0wers> GAH, not consistent. Now even after pkilling can't log in. Here's is how far a user gets: http://pastebin.com/4javUPR4
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| 05:31 | <alkisg> cyberorg: e.g. in lp:~cyberorg/+junk/ltsp
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| 05:31 | <cyberorg> how anywhere?
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| 05:32 | <alkisg> cyberorg: search the word "junk" here: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.2.0/en/mini-tutorial/index.html
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| 05:33 | shawnp0wers: do I remember correctly that there's an xterm session? If so, can you try that?
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| 05:33 | <shawnp0wers> alkisg: Here's my lts.conf: http://pastebin.com/igRgaE83
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| 05:33 | Do you mean ssh into the server?
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| 05:33 | as the user?
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| 05:34 | <alkisg> No, check the ldm preferences menu for other lighter sessions
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| 05:34 | <shawnp0wers> OH, you mean from LDM
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| 05:34 | <cyberorg> ok, i thought junk was a variable
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| 05:34 | <shawnp0wers> lemme check
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| 05:34 | <alkisg> E.g. fallback or xterm
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| 05:35 | shawnp0wers: or you might be able to do that by replacing LDM_SESSION with LDM_XSESSION=/usr/bin/xterm
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| 05:35 | <shawnp0wers> xterm login works
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| 05:35 | <alkisg> Right, so it sounds like a gnome issue...
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| 05:35 | shawnp0wers: is the server headless? Can you try logging in directly there?
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| 05:36 | <shawnp0wers> hmm... it's hundreds of miles away, but I think I can get to the esxi console...
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| 05:37 | <alkisg> shawnp0wers: you can get remove vnc access to lightdm provided that you've root (ssh) access there, if you don't manage the esxi thing, ask me how...
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| 05:37 | *remote
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| 05:38 | <shawnp0wers> Well, I got the console, but there's a weird list of a hundred usernames... I can't seem to scroll. Could GDM be messing with logins?
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| 05:38 | or probably lightdm now
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| 05:38 | not gdm
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| 05:38 | <alkisg> With ltsp logins, no, I don't think so
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| 05:39 | <shawnp0wers> it seems to be quite locked up, oddly enough
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| 05:39 | <alkisg> service lightdm stop; service lightdm start
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| 05:39 | Ah, and if it's possible to try a server reboot, something might be hanged server-side... file locks etc
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| 05:42 | Also try typing "w" on the server ssh connection, you don't have hundreds of users logged in, do you?
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| 05:42 | <shawnp0wers> No, actually I recently rebooted the server
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| 05:42 | and I can't get lightdm to work
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| 05:42 | I have 5 user names
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| 05:42 | and the mouse wont' respond
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| 05:42 | quite strange
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| 05:42 | <alkisg> And lightdm lists hundreds?
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| 05:43 | <shawnp0wers> no, I thought it listed all my users, but when I looked at the bottom, the list stopped
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| 05:43 | (I assumed all my users were listed, but only 5)
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| 05:43 | <alkisg> Did you try restarting ldm?
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| 05:43 | <shawnp0wers> ldm, no
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| 05:43 | <alkisg> Sorry
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| 05:43 | lightdm
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| 05:43 | <shawnp0wers> yes
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| 05:43 | it seems to stop, then when I restart it, it's in the same condition
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| 05:43 | lemme see if it really stops... hang on
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| 05:44 | <alkisg> You do have "rw" vnc session, not just "ro", right?
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| 05:44 | "viewonly"
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| 05:44 | <shawnp0wers> I'm using ESXi's console
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| 05:44 | <alkisg> OK, don't know if that even has a viewonly option :)
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| 05:44 | Also check if the thin client users can login with lightdm stopped
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| 05:46 | <shawnp0wers> I tried, no dice. I'm going to disable lightdm and reboot... maybe lightdm is freaking out about my LDAP authentication or something
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| 05:49 | <alkisg> shawnp0wers: another thing to try is to login with xterm (thin client), and then launch gnome-session there
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| 05:49 | Maybe its output will be a bit helpfull... or also check ~/.xsession-errors
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| 05:49 | <shawnp0wers> good idea... and apparently I failed at stopping lightdm from loading, stupid upstart. ;)
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| 05:51 | <cyberorg> alkisg, bzr push lp:~jigish-gohil/+junk/ltsp-trunk where does it show up?
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| 05:52 | <alkisg> https://code.launchpad.net/~jigish-gohil/+junk/ltsp-trunk
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| 05:52 | cyberorg: you can uncommit and push --overwrite if you want to delete the recent test commits without reuploading the branch elsewhere
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| 05:54 | <shawnp0wers> alkisg: Wow, now I can't even log in with xterm. How frustrating. I'll sleep on it, it's 2AM here, and this is volunteer work for a job i don't even work at anymore. :)
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| 05:55 | <darthanubis> trying to build a 386 client on a 64bit machine fails for me in ubuntu 12.04
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| 05:55 | E: Failed getting release file http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/Release
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| 05:56 | <alkisg> shawnp0wers: good night :)
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| 05:56 | <shawnp0wers> thanks for the help alkisg, I always appreciate it. :)
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| 06:11 | <cyberorg> alkisg, now bzr does not allow me to push anymore "ERROR: These branches have diverged" ran bzr merge, says nothing to do
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| 06:11 | <alkisg> cyberorg: bzr push --overwrite
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| 06:13 | (don't do that on team branches, it's just a convenient thing to do on personal branches)
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| 06:13 | <cyberorg> alkisg, worked, now how do i send merge request to origin?
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| 06:13 | <alkisg> cyberorg: I think that's where the "link to bug report" becomes useful
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| 06:14 | <cyberorg> i mean, via bzr
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| 06:14 | <alkisg> I.e. you file a bug report in upstream ltsp, and then link your branch as the proposed solution
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| 06:14 | Ah, you don't need to, committers can run the merge themselves since they have read access to your branch
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| 06:14 | I'm not a bzr expert, I only know the few basic commands that I need for ltsp + epoptes... :)
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| 06:16 | <cyberorg> how do i intimate of the change committed to original project via bzr, for example we have osc branch someproj package, then after working on it we can osc commit, then if it build we can send osc submitreq
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| 06:16 | just trying to understand work flow :)
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| 06:18 | <alkisg> Sure you can do both of those, e.g. to send a merge request see the "merging" paragraph at http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.2.0/en/mini-tutorial/index.html again
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| 06:19 | And then the person that has upstream commit access will run a `bzr merge`
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| 06:22 | <cyberorg> it just says "send a patch to mailing list"
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| 06:25 | <alkisg> cyberorg: do you mean that you want to create a launchpad branch merge request through the command line?
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| 06:25 | Instead of filing a bug + using the launchpad webpage that I mentioned above?
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| 06:25 | <cyberorg> alkisg, yes, otherwise whats a point of putting code on launchpad
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| 06:26 | <alkisg> Well there are several points, but let's focus on what you're asking
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| 06:26 | <cyberorg> again see osc, gitorious and github for example
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| 06:27 | i know the good points, i am saying from outside contributor point of view, i can just create patch locally and send
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| 06:28 | <alkisg> cyberorg: I think we're only talking about the "notify upstream about your branch" part now, right?
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| 06:28 | And the only thing you ask is "how to do it from the command line instead of a web page"
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| 06:28 | Correct?
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| 06:28 | <cyberorg> yes, easiest way to do that
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| 06:28 | <alkisg> Gotcha, I don't know bzr well enough so I don't know that command line option, try asking in #bzr or in #launchpad
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| 06:33 | <cyberorg> alkisg, https://code.launchpad.net/~jigish-gohil/+junk/ltsp-trunk does not have "Propose branch for merging"
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| 06:33 | <alkisg> cyberorg: I think you're supposed to create a bug report first, in order to tell upstream what your changes are supposed to fix
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| 06:34 | But I'm not 100%, I haven't used that
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| 06:34 | *sure
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| 06:34 | So you click "link on a bug report", and put your branch there
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| 06:34 | <cyberorg> alkisg, ok
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| 06:36 | i've tried launchpad/bzr off and on for many years always gave up as it just takes too much time, was hoping it would have improved now making collaboration easier
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| 06:37 | <alkisg> It was easy enough for me for epoptes, it even allowed the software to be translated to 32 languages with minimal effort from my part
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| 06:38 | <cyberorg> alkisg, it is easy if i want to work on my own project or with a team, not for out side contributors
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| 06:38 | <alkisg> So in gitorious etc the merge requests are filed against branches, not against bugs?
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| 06:39 | Dunno I think that's worse, from a dev side I'd always want bug reports with merge requests
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| 06:39 | Or at least mails that explain why the merge request is there
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| 06:42 | <cyberorg> alkisg, if scm allows us to work on branch of a project why not allow us to push merge request? commit -m "my reason" should be enough
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| 06:42 | <alkisg> It would be enough only if it was a single commit, though
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| 06:42 | And if the problem was so small that could be adequately described in a couple of lines
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| 06:43 | If you wanted to merge 200 commits over 3 different branches, wouldn't you need a bug report for that?
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| 06:43 | <cyberorg> at least it would get people contributing small changes :)
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| 06:43 | <alkisg> What's wrong with filing bugs?
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| 06:43 | Dunno, personally I don't miss that thing we're talking about
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| 06:45 | <cyberorg> yeah we are spoilt on suse :), bzr/lp devs need to work on something like osc http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/Collaboration
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| 06:46 | <alkisg> I think you're just advertising now :)
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| 06:47 | If I cared, I could probably find several reasons to advertise launchpad over osc, but I don't care :)
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| 06:47 | <cyberorg> no, i sincerely tried to follow a workflow to get one simple commit merged, https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk has "propose for merging" my branch doesn't
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| 06:48 | <alkisg> Maybe it needs to be a part of a project, +junk items aren't part of projects
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| 06:48 | But those are way out of the things I need to do on a daily basis, so I don't have info on those..
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| 06:50 | <cyberorg> nm, thanks for being so patient :)
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| 06:52 | <alkisg> yw
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| 07:02 | cyberorg: I asked in #launchpad, they replied that you're supposed to push your branch under the ltsp namespace, since it's there that you'll want to send the merge request
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| 07:02 | While branches under +junk aren't meant to be merged anywhere, that's why it doesn't appear
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| 07:02 | <cyberorg> alkisg, yeah, but then i'd need commit access there
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| 07:02 | <alkisg> Nope
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| 07:03 | cyberorg: https://code.launchpad.net/ltsp
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| 07:03 | See how many branches are there
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| 07:03 | I.e. you just need to replace "+junk" with "ltsp" in the URL you're using
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| 07:04 | It's still under your own launchpad account/namespace
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| 07:04 | <cyberorg> ok, trying
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| 07:19 | <cyberorg> alkisg, thanks, that worked, more work for you ;)
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| 07:21 | <alkisg> cyberorg: hehe, nope, I think the correct thing to do there is for some admin to give you commit access and avoid all those merge requests, and just commit them yourself!
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| 07:21 | If that's not done in a couple of days, sure, I don't mind committing them
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| 07:22 | <cyberorg> this way would be good for some time, till i feel it is ok to commit directly
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| 07:24 | <alkisg> Under server/SUSE_LINUX, it's *I* that shouldn't feel ok to commit :D I'm just a teacher trying to contribute to ltsp, I'm not even a distro maintainer! :D
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| 09:02 | <knipwim> alkisg: how do you set $SERVER if not booting from nbd or nfs?
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| 09:02 | <alkisg> knipwim: where are you booting from then? locally?
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| 09:02 | <knipwim> yes
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| 09:03 | just put the init=ltsp-init in my grubline
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| 09:03 | <alkisg> I didn't try that, let's see...
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| 09:03 | <cyberorg> knipwim, we fetch lts.conf from tftp for local boots
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| 09:03 | <alkisg> The first thing is where to download lts.conf from
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| 09:04 | <knipwim> indeed, when SERVER is not there, it doesn't do that at all
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| 09:04 | i'm thinking of supporting a ltsp.server kernel commandline flag
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| 09:05 | <alkisg> Possible sources: 1) mount local disk first and check /etc/* (e.g. hosts, ltsp/some files...),
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| 09:05 | 2) dhcp info, 3) kernel command line
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| 09:05 | Am I missing any possible source?
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| 09:05 | <knipwim> initramfs?
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| 09:06 | i would put that one on 4, you would have to rebuild the initramfs to connect to another server
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| 09:06 | <alkisg> Well, the downside of initramfs or mounting the local disk, is that it's hardcoded, we could only have that as a fallback, not as the main method
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| 09:06 | So we need a way either from dhcp or kernel cmdline
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| 09:07 | <knipwim> i would say kernel command line, with a local boot, you might not have dhcp server access
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| 09:07 | a line in grub can be controlled locally
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| 09:08 | <alkisg> Good point
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| 09:09 | Actually I think it would be a nice idea to capitalize all kernel variables starting with ltsp., and have them exported in the environment like configuration variables
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| 09:09 | ltsp.server=xxx => SERVER=xxx, with the same result as if it was declared in lts.conf
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| 09:10 | ltsp.xrandr_mode_0=xxx => same
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| 09:12 | <knipwim> would that be instead of lts.conf?
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| 09:12 | and which would take precendence if not
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| 09:13 | the cmdline takes precendence now, for instance the default SERVER won't get overwritten by a static lts.conf
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| 09:13 | that might also be a bug though
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| 09:23 | <alkisg> Not "instead", just complimentary... about precendence, not sure, I think there are pros in both methods
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| 09:24 | Maybe cmdline should take precendence
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| 09:28 | <knipwim> cyberorg: where are the kiwi-ltsp sources?
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| 09:30 | <cyberorg> https://sourceforge.net/projects/kiwi-ltsp/
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| 11:52 | <gantu> hi
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| 11:53 | I have installed ltsp on top of ubuntu 10.04.
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| 11:53 | I tried in several clients and it worked.
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| 11:54 | but I now in one of my new client i get kernel panic.
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| 11:54 | I searched on the internet but with no luck.
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| 11:54 | what can be the problem?
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| 11:59 | <muppis> Test that client with live cd to make sure there's no hardware failure.
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| 12:05 | <gantu> nice advice , I will try it now
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| 12:06 | thank you
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| 12:06 | <muppis> No problem.
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| 12:06 | <gantu> if there is a hardware problem what should i do ?
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| 12:08 | <muppis> Get that fixed. :) Then there's no point to that machine at all if it fails. Just causes instability in user.
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| 12:08 | <gantu> i see
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| 14:13 | <knipwim> i'm getting a sshd[7625]: Connection closed by 192.168.0.14 [preauth]
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| 14:14 | what could be the cause of this?
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| 14:14 | i copied the server keys to /etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts
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| 14:16 | erm, i'm getting that error when i try to login from a client
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| 15:02 | <knipwim> hmm, it's like the name is not being sent
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| 15:03 | when logging in from a working client, the server also says:
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| 15:03 | SSH: Server;Ltype: Authname;Remote: 192.168.0.11-49973;Name: wim [preauth
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| 15:05 | on both client, using the same ltsp-client (5.4.3) and ldm (2.2.11)
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| 15:13 | <qwebirc58418> Hi all! I'm using Kubuntu 12.04, amd64 on both the server and the clients, which are fat.
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| 15:14 | After I log in, the screen turns upside-down and backwards and then KDE crashes.
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| 15:14 | I'm pretty sure this represents a graphics card issue, but I'm not sure how to troubleshoot it.
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| 15:16 | One other wrinkle: I'm serving from a different server than the DHCP server at the moment. (I'm in the middle of upgrading and the old server is the internet gateway, so I haven't moved everything over.)
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| 15:17 | I'm also at school on Sunday and have realized how hot it gets when they turn off the air conditioning over the weekend.
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| 15:23 | <stgraber> darthanubis: that's correct, I just tried it here and "apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone xfce4-session" doesn't pull unity.
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| 15:35 | <Hyperbyte> qwebirc58418, I don't know about the first problem with KDE, but why is running DHCP on another server "a wrinkle" ?
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| 15:37 | <qwebirc58418> I guess it shouldn't be, but the DHCP server is running 11.10 while the TFTP server is running 12.04. That shouldn't make a difference, I think, but I wanted to mention it just in case.
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| 16:11 | <Hyperbyte> qwebirc58418, no, doesn't make difference. DHCP is DHCP. You can use any DHCP, even any TFTP server with LTSP.
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| 16:13 | <qwebirc58418> Assuming this is a problem with Xorg picking the wrong driver, where can I specify the right one, if I can figure it out?
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| 16:41 | <ball> qwebirc58418: Graphics driver?
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| 16:46 | <qwebirc58418> Weird. I just re-built the image from scratch and it seems to be working now.
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| 16:52 | <ball> Great.
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| 16:52 | brb, lunch
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| 18:29 | <elias_a> Lunch?
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| 18:29 | Somebody is eating upside down...
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| 18:31 | <Hyperbyte> Hah
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| 18:33 | <ball> umop ap!sdn
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| 19:57 | <qwebirc26976> is there a way to share the load of LTSP over 2 servers?
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| 20:02 | <alkisg> For fat clients?
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| 20:09 | <qwebirc26976> yes
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| 20:11 | <alkisg> Then the only server load is network, + a bit of disk, but not much (it's cached in ram over time)
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| 20:11 | One easy way to split the load is to put the image in another server and /home in another
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| 20:11 | (the nbd image)
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| 20:12 | There's no CPU load at all, so you don't need to worry about that. Putting 2 gigabit NICs on the server should also work well enough.
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| 20:12 | You can even bond them so that they share the same IP
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| 20:12 | How many clients?
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| 20:13 | <qwebirc26976> about 150 give or take
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| 20:14 | <alkisg> You can also transfer the nbd image to other servers, and tell your dhcp server to split the clients between them
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| 20:15 | But for 2 servers, I think splitting nbd and /home is fair enough
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| 20:16 | (that only needs an LDM_SERVER=server2 lts.conf entry)
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| 20:19 | <qwebirc30789> hey i'm back
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| 20:19 | would it split it in half or can i pick?
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| 20:48 | <alkisg> qwebirc58418: You can try this for a while, and check with some disk/network bandwidth measuring program about how well the balancing goes. Server1 = LTSP and /home server. Server2 = only nbd server. Mount /opt/ltsp/images with nfs from server2 to server1. And set nbdroot=server2-ip:ltsp_i386 in the client command line.
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| 20:49 | If you try that, do report about the balancing results...
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