IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 26 February 2008 (all times are UTC)
| 00:17 | <lns> /j #gsoc
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| 00:18 | lol
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| 00:38 | <warren> grrr!!!
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| 00:38 | # Etherboot PXE (only 5.4))
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| 00:38 | elsif substring (option vendor-class-identifier, 0, 9) = "Etherboot-5.4"
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| 00:38 | dhcpd.conf seems that it cannot recognize "Etherboot-5.4"
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| 00:38 | watching the packet dump the client did indeed transmit "Etherboot-5.4"
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| 00:38 | those characters must not be legal to the server or something
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| 00:39 | <lns> warren, i've seen that with certain versions of pxe too
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| 00:39 | <warren> lns, oh?
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| 00:40 | <lns> it's like a single version below what the latest intel one was - and it would hang at tftp
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| 00:40 | <warren> also something changed (could have been in fedora) causing qemu-kvm's network boot to fail the first 4 tries, succeed on the 5th
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| 00:40 | <lns> haha..nice
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| 00:41 | <warren> this was working fine in December
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| 00:41 | I don't know what changed
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| 00:41 | lns, too bad you can't chain load Etherboot-5.4 or higher
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| 00:41 | <lns> haha!
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| 00:42 | that would be interesting
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| 00:42 | <warren> lns, if the BIOS can't handle PXE like linuxbios, then having a newer version of Etherboot still can't PXE
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| 00:42 | lns, so it is very annoying that the PXE capable Etherboot has the same vendor class identifier
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| 00:43 | <lns> pxe capable eitherboot?
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| 00:43 | ether*
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| 00:43 | does pxe chainload in some cases?
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| 00:44 | <warren> lns, Jim has a recipe where you can actually run a newer version of etherboot from an older version
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| 00:44 | lns, but it wont help you in cases where you want to do PXE from a non-PXE capable BIOS
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| 00:46 | <lns> i haven't come into any etherboot capable bioses before
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| 00:46 | i'm not very familiar with the process like pxe
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| 00:47 | <warren> i'm trying to ship a dhcpd.conf that handles any client by default
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| 00:47 | which MIGHT have been possible if the stupid dhcp server could substring match
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| 00:47 | properly
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| 00:48 | <lns> i never understood how that could ever be an issue...seems like such a trivial thing
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| 00:49 | but i've heard that older windows nt servers had issues with that too
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| 00:51 | <warren> i'm reading the sources of dhcpd
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| 00:52 | <nikok> any gnome users here?
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| 00:53 | <warren> oh!
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| 00:53 | lns, hah
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| 00:53 | lns, <daniel_hozac> warren: how would a substring from char 0 to 9 ever match a 13 character long string?
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| 00:53 | <warren> daniel_hozac, oh!
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| 00:53 | <lns> =p
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| 00:53 | <nikok> is there some file or files that gets loaded evry time user logs in? a file that keeps track of desktop backgrounds etc...?
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| 00:54 | <lns> nikok, gconf?
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| 00:56 | night all
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| 01:17 | <nikok> this might be a little complicated and odd but... what i'm trying to do is to set some sort of a "default profile" that evry thin client loads when they log in, and what makes it a bit complicated is the fact that every one in our ltsp environment uses the same user account to log in... so my goal is that every user can modify their desktop (backgrounds for example) as they want but nothing wouldn't be writed in the profile. after they log out or
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| 01:18 | i think u get the idea... but the question is, is this possible? and if it is, where should i start?
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| 04:06 | <achandrashekar> hello anyone got a recommendation for thin clients?
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| 04:06 | how is the entc1000?
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| 04:21 | <toscalix> haven't try it
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| 05:03 | <artista_frustrad> nikok, you could hook up a script at the login manager so that whem the user leaves the .gnome2 directory is erased
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| 05:44 | <nikok> artista_frustrad: i tried to add rm -rf /home/user/.gnome2/* to /etc/gdm/PostSession/Default... no notable difference, still remembers the background i choosed @ last login. i've been told that /etc/gdm/PostSession/Default is run every time user logs out... can someone confirm this?
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| 06:29 | <Nubae> hmmm... klik sounds interesting... virtualisation on the application level
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| 06:29 | couldn't that be used to get java working on 64 bit ubuntu?
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| 06:29 | maybe I'm killing a fly with a bazooka, but its worth ask
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| 06:29 | ing
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| 07:52 | <jobdrb> anyone know if we could in ltsp5 use a local harddisk partition ? like in ltsp4.2 local_device_02 =/dev/hda3:hd3
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| 08:00 | <ogra> not like that, but you can modify the udev rules inside the chroot to also accept non removable devices
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| 08:22 | <jammcq> g'morning kidz
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| 08:39 | <rjune> jammcq !
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| 08:39 | Gadi: !
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| 08:44 | how goes it jammcq
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| 08:44 | Gadi: can beer be kosher?
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| 08:51 | <Nubae> on hardy, local cd roms are mounted, but appear on everyone's screens with the following message: You do not have authorisation to view scsi-cdrom
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| 08:51 | can I disable that somehwere?
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| 09:06 | <Pascal_1> hello
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| 09:07 | anybody know how to make works ldap authentication and mount samba share with libpam-mount ? i cant make it works
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| 09:12 | <Nubae> there are some howtos if you search the net
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| 09:23 | <Pascal_1> i found some but there is no good solutions for me, if you have some url
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| 09:30 | <Nubae> this is ldap and nis: http://ldots.org/ldap/
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| 09:31 | <Pascal_1> thanks
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| 09:32 | <Pascal_1> i'll see later the libpam-mount problem
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| 09:32 | i try this before thanks
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| 09:47 | <Gadi> rjune: !!!
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| 09:48 | Nubae: local cdroms as in on the thin client or the server?
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| 09:48 | <rjune> Gadi: !
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| 09:49 | can beer be kosher?
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| 09:49 | <Gadi> rjune: I drink plenty of it :)
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| 09:49 | <rjune> heh
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| 09:49 | <Gadi> most beer is kosher
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| 09:49 | <rjune> just checking.
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| 09:49 | <Gadi> its only if they start blending in grape juice or wines that spoil it :)
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| 09:50 | but, who drinks the blended crap anyway?
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| 09:50 | so.... when are you buying the next round?
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| 09:52 | Pascal_1: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WinIntegration#pam_mount_conf_and_LDM_ssh
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| 10:04 | <Nubae> gadi client
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| 10:10 | <alumno10> hi
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| 10:10 | i cant listen sound in clients
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| 10:11 | all of them are ebox with sis7019 sound system
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| 10:18 | <Nubae> Gadi, any ideas about local cdroms showing up unwanted on the clients (when put into client computers, not server)
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| 10:18 | ?
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| 10:31 | <Gadi> Nubae: LTSP5?
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| 10:32 | <Nubae> yeah, sorry alpha 5 hardy
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| 10:33 | <Gadi> hmm...
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| 10:33 | is it a hardy chroot?
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| 10:33 | or is the chroot gutsy?
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| 10:34 | <Nubae> hardy and hardy
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| 10:34 | <ogra> Nubae, the desktop switched from gnome-vfs to gvfs ... the ltsp patches are not ported yet
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| 10:35 | <Gadi> huh. there ya go
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| 10:35 | an informed answer :)
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| 10:35 | <ogra> its hardy :)
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| 10:35 | <Nubae> ogra, sorry that's too technical for me, what does that mean in practice?
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| 10:35 | <ogra> supposed to be in flux and break here and there
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| 10:35 | <Gadi> Nubae: its alpha
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| 10:35 | :)
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| 10:35 | <Nubae> yeah yeah, that I got
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| 10:35 | <Gadi> will be fixed by release
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| 10:35 | <Nubae> ok, its a bug
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| 10:35 | <Gadi> right
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| 10:36 | a "porting bug"
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| 10:36 | :)
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| 10:36 | <ogra> there is a new technology that doesnt know about ltsp yet, we need to teach it to :)
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| 10:36 | but its known and on my todo list
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| 10:36 | <Gadi> ogra is gvfs more, er stable than gnome-vfs was
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| 10:36 | ?
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| 10:36 | er is
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| 10:37 | Ive got gutsy users with nautilus screaming out of control at random
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| 10:37 | <Nubae> ok... btw, someone gave me a fix for 64 bit java, that supposedly works in hardy and gutys
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| 10:37 | <Gadi> which I think is a gnome-vfs bug
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| 10:37 | <Nubae> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java64
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| 10:38 | <ogra> Gadi, might be, no clue about gvfs ... i can tell you after i ported the patches :)
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| 10:38 | <Gadi> :)
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| 10:38 | <ogra> since that'll require me to dig deep in the dirt of gvfs code
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| 10:38 | <Gadi> gnome-vfs has driven me nuts on several occasions
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| 10:38 | happy to hear there's a new girl in town
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| 10:38 | :)
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| 10:38 | <ogra> i doubt gvfs is much better yet its still very young
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| 10:39 | <Gadi> and yet used in an LTS release?
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| 10:39 | ballsy
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| 10:39 | <ogra> (i personally wouldnt have pulled it into hardy ... )
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| 10:39 | but the desktop team thinks its suitable
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| 10:41 | <laga> Nubae: how is java in 64bit broken? seen some odd java issues on amd64 here
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| 10:42 | <Nubae> for me it doesn't work as a browser plugin at all
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| 10:42 | on 64 bit
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| 10:43 | but supposedly that fix works, I'm still compiling
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| 11:09 | <jobdrb> HELLO ALL! IS THERE A WAY TO USE A LOCAL HD PARTITION IN LTSP-5, LIKE IN 4.2 (local_device_02 =/dev/hda3:hd) ?????
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| 11:10 | <Gadi> heh, maybe if you yell loud enough:)
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| 11:10 | <laga> yes, more caps makes for better answers
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| 11:10 | <Gadi> seriously, tho: its all in the udev rule
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| 11:11 | look in: /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/udev/rules.d/88-ltsp.rules
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| 11:12 | if you use debian, chances are you may have vagrantc's patch to not allow non-removable devices
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| 11:12 | <warren> high definition?
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| 11:12 | * Gadi laughs WITH warren - honest | |
| 11:12 | <Gadi> :)
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| 11:12 | * warren just woke up | |
| 11:13 | * Gadi hands warren a beer and a fedora | |
| 11:13 | <Gadi> (to hide his bloodshot eyes)
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| 11:14 | <warren> and slashdot tells me that Fish Can Count to Four
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| 11:14 | <Gadi> maybe the remedial fish
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| 11:14 | my fish beat up your honor student
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| 11:15 | <warren> Gadi, Jewish education is that good huh?
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| 11:15 | <Gadi> lol
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| 11:16 | <Gadi> only the best education for our fish
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| 11:16 | :)
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| 11:16 | <warren> Gadi, but then your fish has to walk on Saturdays/
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| 11:16 | ?
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| 11:17 | <Gadi> yeah, but at least they can walk and count passed four at the same time ;)
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| 11:18 | <Nubae> or past four ;-)
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| 11:28 | <Gadi> Nubae: right
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| 11:28 | :)
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| 11:28 | fingers faster than brain
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| 11:28 | :)
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| 11:33 | <cesar_> hello people
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| 11:34 | good afternoon for me!
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| 11:34 | :-)
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| 11:44 | * dtrask loves snow, but this is getting ridiculous! | |
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| 12:03 | <warren> dtrask, ?
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| 12:10 | <dtrask> warren: yeah?
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| 12:10 | <warren> snow
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| 12:10 | <dtrask> warren: I'm teaching so I'm back and forth
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| 12:11 | <warren> ah
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| 12:11 | <dtrask> hows the snow there?
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| 12:11 | are you in MA?
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| 12:12 | This storm and then 2 more behind it...Sat-Sun and Mon
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| 12:13 | oh well....skiing will be good this weekend
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| 12:15 | <Nubae> is there a problem with firefox 3 and printing?
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| 12:16 | <ogra_cmpc> Nubae, i dont think it was ported over yet look at launchpad there are likely bugs
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| 12:16 | note that ff3 only entered main last weekend
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| 12:17 | its very likely that not all parts are done yet
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| 12:18 | <warren> dtrask, not snowing now in somerville, MA
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| 12:19 | * ogra_cmpc feels like something moved him to a rainforest this winter ... no snow, only rain and storm in mid-germany | |
| 12:19 | <ogra_cmpc> and i think it was only three timews below zero yet
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| 12:21 | <Nubae> sunny blue skies here (Southern Spain)
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| 12:21 | <laga> ogra_cmpc: hey. do you know anything in LTSP that'd mess with the power button? i don't get that "do you want to shutdown?" dialog window on my fat client when i push the power button
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| 12:22 | <ogra_cmpc> laga, thats a thing of hal, gnome-power-manager and gnome-session
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| 12:22 | <Nubae> from mailing list: While I realize that the advise from this list had been to pay someone
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| 12:22 | from Canonical if there are problems, this is, of course, completely
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| 12:22 | unacceptable.
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| 12:23 | funny
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| 12:23 | <ogra_cmpc> make sure hal and g-p-m are running
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| 12:23 | <laga> ogra_cmpc: ok, i was just wondering if there's anything LTSP-specific. like capturing the event and sending it to the server
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| 12:23 | <ogra_cmpc> Nubae, which one ?
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| 12:23 | <Nubae> I guess the expectation now is that open source must be free
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| 12:23 | * ogra_cmpc has no mailer on this machine | |
| 12:23 | <ogra_cmpc> laga, nope
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| 12:24 | <Nubae> edubuntu-users
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| 12:24 | <ogra_cmpc> heh, i'll answer that
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| 12:24 | <laga> ogra_cmpc: great, thanks.
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| 12:24 | <ogra_cmpc> i'f i'm back in the office (might not be today anymore though)
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| 12:24 | <Nubae> that was i reference to the usb problem in gutsy ;-)
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| 12:25 | amazing the outcry that one little bug can create
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| 12:25 | <ogra_cmpc> well, preople ofthen dont get: ubuntu != canonical
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| 12:27 | <rjune> heh
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| 12:27 | ogra_cmpc: how many times do you tell people that
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| 12:28 | <ogra_cmpc> once a week at least
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| 12:28 | fighting windmills and trying to overcome myths
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| 12:28 | <Nubae> the thing I dont get is, its damn cheap to get support from canonical
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| 12:29 | and people complain on top of it
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| 12:29 | <ogra_cmpc> Nubae, development is a totally different thing though
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| 12:29 | i dont know the prices we take for dev stuff, but i suspect its quite expensive
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| 12:30 | <Nubae> would canonical not advise on how to fix that bug though?
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| 12:30 | is that really development?
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| 12:30 | <ogra_cmpc> but then the development we do for money is usually *very* specific
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| 12:31 | sure the support team would advise how to work around the bug
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| 12:31 | (if there is a way to)
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| 12:31 | <Nubae> they could even login to the machine and do it themselves
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| 12:32 | anyway I'm off home, goodnight...
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| 14:00 | <scrovy> hi
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| 14:01 | I have a question related to mounting an NFS root filesystem
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| 14:01 | <scrovy> does anybody understand about this topic?
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| 18:56 | <dtrask> warren: Is it snowing there now? ;-)
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| 19:00 | <cliebow> not here/....
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| 19:29 | <dtrask> yet....it's coming! ;-)
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| 20:48 | <eric> hi all.
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| 20:48 | Anyone care to help me out? I have edubuntu server installed and a wyse thin client on the same network...
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| 20:48 | unsure how to make the wyse client get a desktp from the server...
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| 21:36 | <vagrantc> warren: unless i have no idea what your vmclient script does, i think it would be totally useful to include on the server
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| 21:37 | <warren> vagrantc, even if it has requirements that are irrelevant to server?
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| 21:38 | vagrantc, I put it at the base in a new directory because it is clearly another package
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| 21:38 | <vagrantc> warren: ah, you're making it a third package?
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| 21:39 | <warren> vagrantc, ltsp-vmclient is the package name for fedora
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| 21:39 | <vagrantc> warren: i might just include it in the example scripts like the qemu-ltsp script i already distribute with the ltsp-server package
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| 21:39 | * warren looks | |
| 21:39 | <vagrantc> warren: i put that in the documentation directory
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| 21:39 | <warren> oh
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| 21:40 | <vagrantc> it used the user-space networking and commandline arguments to configure it
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| 21:40 | <warren> vagrantc, in my case I'm able to make a functional package that can be installed and used
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| 21:40 | <vagrantc> warren: sure. wouldn't be hard to do on debian either...
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| 21:41 | warren: seems very... hardcoded.
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| 21:41 | <warren> vagrantc, perhaps we should generalize vmclient
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| 21:41 | so that it uses different VM types if available
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| 21:42 | <vagrantc> that would be good. the qemu-ltsp script also accepted a few commandline arguments...
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| 21:43 | <warren> user-space networking can do PXE?
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| 21:43 | My solution uses brctl
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| 21:43 | <warren> which is very nice because you can add an arbitrary ethernet interface to that virtual bridge and it instantly has access
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| 21:44 | <vagrantc> warren: no, i load the kernel directly, so it didn't actually test the dhcp/tftp part of the process
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| 21:44 | yes, i've used brctl
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| 21:44 | <warren> isn't the dhcp/tftp part of the process really useful to test?
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| 21:44 | <vagrantc> yes, it is useful to test, but that doesn't mean it's useless to test the rest without configuring an actual bridge...
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| 21:45 | * vagrantc finds that it is often good to have a variety of ways to do things | |
| 21:45 | <vagrantc> and to know what the advantages and limitations of each of those ways are
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| 21:46 | as far as i can tell, setting up a brctl method requires root access, no?
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| 21:46 | <warren> that's true
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| 21:46 | <vagrantc> the user-space networking doesn't.
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| 21:47 | some versions of qemu don't support PXE booting.
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| 21:47 | it was introduced sometime within the last year, if i'm not mistaken
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| 21:47 | <warren> and some didn't support it because they broke it =)
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| 21:48 | <vagrantc> and some versions of qemu didn't work even if you loaded the correct etherboot off a virtual CD image or something ... it just didn't work.
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| 21:48 | but i really like that it's easier to test the whole process now.
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| 21:49 | <warren> I'll put vmclient into a k12linux specific directory for now then
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| 21:49 | I don't have time to work on that part now
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| 21:49 | I'm hitting a deadline next week
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| 21:50 | <vagrantc> ah well. in the future, i'd like to work with you to make it more generalized and flexible.
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| 21:50 | <warren> sure
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| 21:50 | I'd like that
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| 21:55 | <vagrantc> warren: no need to move it to a fedora-specific directory i think ...
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| 21:59 | <vagrantc> warren: does fedora's udev use "udevinfo" or "udevadm info" ?
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| 21:59 | or neither? :)
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| 22:00 | <warren> vagrantc, F8 has udevadm
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| 22:00 | vagrantc, want me to look at F9?
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| 22:00 | <vagrantc> warren: i think udevadm is the newer one
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| 22:00 | warren: so i'd wager that F9 has it
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| 22:00 | <warren> RHEL5 has udevinfo
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| 22:01 | <vagrantc> there's some code in ltspfs ... i think i'll just re-write it to support both
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| 22:01 | a pretty simple if statement ...
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| 22:01 | debian 4.0 uses udevinfo, and debian unstable still is using udevinfo but might switch someday and may as well be future-proof. :)
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| 22:02 | <warren> [root@newcaprica ~]# udevadm info
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| 22:02 | missing option
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| 22:02 | ?
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| 22:02 | <vagrantc> uh-oh.
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| 22:02 | <warren> I don't know how udev works.
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| 22:03 | <vagrantc> i'm looking at http://bugs.debian.org/456327 and trying to figure out how to support all cases.
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| 22:03 | <warren> let me send you a copy of the man page
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| 22:03 | or rather
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| 22:04 | would you prefer the source?
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| 22:04 | <vagrantc> warren: what version of udev are you using?
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| 22:04 | <warren> F8 has udev-118-1.fc8
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| 22:04 | F9 has udev-118-5.fc9
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| 22:04 | <vagrantc> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?msg=5;filename=tmpoP0wxM;att=1;bug=456327
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| 22:04 | was the patch from ubuntu
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| 22:05 | <warren> ah
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| 22:05 | F8 had 116, we issued a udev update a few days ago.
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| 22:05 | <vagrantc> debian's using udev 0.114 and i think ubuntu is using 0.117
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| 22:05 | well, debian etch is 0.105
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| 22:06 | * vagrantc wonders how heavily patched the ubuntu version is | |
| 22:06 | <vagrantc> or the debian version, for that matter
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| 22:06 | * warren wonders if Ubuntu's udev pushed patches back upstream =) | |
| 22:06 | * warren nudges jcastro | |
| 22:07 | <vagrantc> in the bug report, it is claimed that "tools merged into a single binary upstream"
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| 22:07 | warren: your upstream version is basically ... 118 ... 0.118 ... ?
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| 22:07 | * warren looks at the source | |
| 22:08 | <warren> vagrantc, it says 118
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| 22:08 | * vagrantc wonders where debian/ubuntu get the 0. from | |
| 22:09 | <warren> +export $(/sbin/udevadm info -qenv -n ${DEVICENAME})
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| 22:09 | vagrantc, what is this command supposed to do?
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| 22:09 | what is an example of DEVICENAME?
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| 22:09 | <vagrantc> warren: do you have both udevadm and udevinfo ?
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| 22:09 | <warren> vagrantc, apparently yes
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| 22:09 | * vagrantc looks at the ltspfs code | |
| 22:10 | <warren> vagrantc, ah, udevinfo is a symlink to udevadm, probably for backwards compat purposes.
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| 22:11 | <vagrantc> warren: ok, i think DEVICENAME is basically the /dev/hda, /dev/sda type stuff
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| 22:11 | warren: but "udevadm info" doesn't work ?
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| 22:12 | <warren> [root@newcaprica ~]# udevadm info
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| 22:12 | missing option
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| 22:12 | according to the manpage it expects an option
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| 22:12 | <vagrantc> ah
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| 22:12 | udevadm info -qenv -n /dev/hda
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| 22:12 | (or whatever device you have)
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| 22:12 | <warren> [root@newcaprica ~]# udevadm info --version
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| 22:12 | 118
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| 22:12 | <vagrantc> should spit out a bunch of variables
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| 22:13 | <warren> ltspbot, pastebot
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| 22:13 | <ltspbot> warren: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
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| 22:13 | <warren> oh wait
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| 22:13 | I don't want to paste this info
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| 22:13 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 22:13 | <warren> somebody could write code that targets me
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| 22:13 | =)
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| 22:13 | <vagrantc> well, does it spit out a bunch of NAME=VALUE type things?
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| 22:14 | <warren> yeah
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| 22:14 | <vagrantc> ok, that seems like it's working, then.
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| 22:14 | <warren> ok
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| 22:14 | <warren> udevinfo -qenv -n /dev/sda
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| 22:14 | <vagrantc> by the way, udevinfo --version on debian etch/4.0 spits out 105 ...
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| 22:14 | <warren> this does the same thing
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| 22:15 | <warren> looks like a back compat symlink
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| 22:15 | <vagrantc> sure. so i'm guessing udevadm is the future, and it would be nice to keep a little backwards compatibility.
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| 22:15 | just in case the distro doesn't implement the backwards compatible symlink
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| 22:16 | warren: is udevadm in /sbin ?
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| 22:16 | <warren> yes
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| 22:21 | <vagrantc> committed a patch that should support both older and newer udev versions
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| 22:22 | <warren> ah, just figured out how our readonly-root mode works
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| 22:22 | /etc/rwtab contains dirs, files or empty dirs to map to bind mounts in tmpfs
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| 22:22 | /etc/rwtab.d/ allows you to define more
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| 22:22 | <vagrantc> nice.
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| 22:23 | i wonder how hard this would be to port to debian
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| 22:23 | <warren> doesn't look complicated at all
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| 22:23 | <vagrantc> conceptually seems that way ...
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| 22:24 | i suppose some of the directories *might* be different ...
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| 22:25 | <warren> hmm, i guess no reason to have LVM in my client chroot...
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| 22:25 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 22:25 | <warren> vagrantc, no problem, just define your own default rwtab
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| 22:25 | vagrantc, not optimizing, it is spewing error messages during startup distracting me from the more important error messages
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| 22:25 | <vagrantc> warren: got a source or vcs URL for the readonly root stuff?
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| 22:28 | <warren> vagrantc, http://koji.fedoraproject.org/packages/initscripts/8.64/1/i386/initscripts-8.64-1.i386.rpm
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| 22:28 | vagrantc, unpack that
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| 22:28 | vagrantc, see /etc/rc.sysinit and /etc/rwtab*
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| 22:28 | <vagrantc> warren: it's integrated directly into your initscripts?
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| 22:29 | hrm.
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| 22:29 | <warren> vagrantc, yes, readonly-root mode is an official mode of Fedora
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| 22:29 | since FC3 or so
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| 22:29 | <vagrantc> yes, i remember the announcement
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| 22:29 | i got many people saying "that sounds like what you're doing with debian"
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| 22:30 | warren: ok, so how would i unpack this rpm ? ... with the "rpm" command? ... my rpm is pretty rusty. not that it was ever very sharp.
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| 22:32 | i know how to do the equivalent with .deb's in muscle memory
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| 22:32 | <warren> vagrantc, do you have rpm2cpio?
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| 22:33 | vagrantc, something like mkdir something; cd something; rpm2cpio whatever.rpm | cpio -id
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| 22:34 | <vagrantc> warren: got it.
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| 22:34 | thanks
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| 22:34 | * vagrantc missed the -d bit | |
| 22:35 | <warren> interesting...
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| 22:35 | vagrantc, does debian use dash btw?
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| 22:36 | screen_session line number 17
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| 22:36 | TTY_NUM=${SCREEN_NUM#0}
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| 22:36 | <vagrantc> warren: not by default. i tried it with a thin-client the other day and it knocked a ridiculous amount of time off the boot session.
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| 22:36 | <warren> on fedora TTY_NUM becomes "--"
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| 22:37 | <vagrantc> weird.
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| 22:37 | <warren> i'm not even sure how that syntax is supposed to work
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| 22:38 | #0 means what?
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| 22:38 | OH!
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| 22:38 | -- is used as a parameter separator
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| 22:38 | but in this case it is actually using it
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| 22:39 | <vagrantc> SCREEN_NUM=07 and output 7 ... or SCREEN_NUM=12 and output 12
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| 22:39 | i think that's what it's trying to do
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| 22:40 | ubuntu's used dash for ages
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| 22:49 | <warren> vagrantc, I asked our people about dash, they insist that it doesn't help much at all
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| 22:50 | vagrantc, instead we seem to be focusing on reducing redundancy. an intel guy pointed out a few places where we were doing things stupid hundreds of times in a row during our boot.
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| 22:50 | F9 switched to upstart
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| 22:50 | <vagrantc> warren: in debian, it knocks off a very, very noticeable amount of time.
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| 22:51 | <warren> so far we've discovered that it makes our shutdown 2 seconds faster
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| 22:51 | <vagrantc> warren: someone actually did a bunch of bootspeed analysis on debian a couple years ago, and it knocked something around 30 seconds off of a 2.5 minute boot time
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| 22:52 | <warren> vagrantc, I dunno then, one of our most respected engineers told me that he personally did testing and dash did not improve things much at all, he said.
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| 22:52 | maybe fedora is different in some regard
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| 22:53 | <vagrantc> maybe so
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| 22:54 | warren: maybe they tested on too fast equipment?
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| 22:54 | where the differences were harder to notice
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| 22:54 | <warren> vagrantc, I dunno
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| 22:54 | * warren sits on an old quad core box | |
| 22:54 | <vagrantc> nor do i. but i cannot deny what i see with debian.
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| 22:55 | * vagrantc mostly uses an 866MHz machine | |
| 22:56 | <warren> vagrantc, when I have some breathing room I'm going to test dash again
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| 22:57 | Oh
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| 22:57 | I see the problem
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| 22:57 | <vagrantc> when i noticed how much of a difference it made, i started thinking of how to make it the default at least for ltsp
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| 22:57 | ubuntu's got it easy in that regard
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| 22:58 | <warren> my client's boot is already very fast
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| 22:58 | the slowest part by far is udev
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| 23:00 | vagrantc, and we discovered that bash is really stupid in cases like
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| 23:00 | vagrantc, [ -e file1 -a -e file2 ]
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| 23:00 | vagrantc, it checks for the existence of both files even if the first doesn't exist.
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| 23:00 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 23:01 | <warren> checking for the existence of files is real slow
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| 23:01 | * vagrantc always uses [ ] && [ ] | |
| 23:01 | <warren> seek times
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| 23:01 | etc.
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| 23:01 | yeah, me too
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| 23:01 | it is easier for the human brain to parse too
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| 23:03 | * vagrantc just added an additional check for the existance of a file | |
| 23:03 | <vagrantc> in the udevadm/udevinfo stuff
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| 23:03 | but the binary gets used immediately after you check for it's existance ...
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| 23:03 | so it can't be too bad.
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| 23:05 | <warren> is /var/run/pulse anywhere in the scripts?
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| 23:06 | <vagrantc> don't know
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| 23:06 | <warren> W: main.c: Warning: home directory of user 'pulse' is not '/var/run/pulse', ignoring.
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| 23:06 | not sure what this is coming from
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| 23:06 | * vagrantc would recommend grep | |
| 23:06 | <warren> oh
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| 23:07 | <vagrantc> :)
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| 23:07 | <warren> that's hard coded in our pulseaudio binary
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| 23:07 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 23:07 | <warren> vagrantc, does your binary have any home directory hard coded?
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| 23:07 | <vagrantc> no idea.
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| 23:07 | <warren> our pulseaudio daemon creates a pulse user with home directory /
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| 23:07 | this might be a packaging bug
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| 23:11 | <vagrantc> wow. debian's m68k buildd's just got very much faster.
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| 23:14 | * vagrantc suspects some distcc going on | |
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| 23:42 | <warren> vagrantc, do you know the command that lets you run another command on a target VT?
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| 23:43 | vagrantc, I've used it in the past to do "thatcommand 9 /bin/bash" for example, to get full job control on VT9
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| 23:44 | <vagrantc> openvt ?
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| 23:45 | <warren> yeah!
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| 23:45 | I found it just as you said that
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| 23:46 | failing to login as root on the client no matter what I do in the chroot
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| 23:46 | so just bypassing the login
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| 23:53 | <vagrantc> SCREEN_NN=shell doesn't work?
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