IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 12 December 2009 (all times are UTC)
| 00:08 | alkisg has joined #ltsp | |
| 00:38 | johnny has left #ltsp | |
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| 00:40 | <vagrantc> alkisg: you up yet?
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| 00:40 | <alkisg> Hi vagrantc, *I* should be asking that question :)
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| 00:40 | It's 8:40 am here :)
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| 00:40 | <vagrantc> just wondering why screen-session.d/XS00-halt-reboot was put into ltsp-trunk rather than ldm-trunk ...
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| 00:41 | seems like a feature of ldm that itsn't useful without ldm, no?
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| 00:41 | <alkisg> The reason is in the recent messages sent in the ltsp-developer mailing list,
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| 00:41 | In short, the correct way to put it was in ldm *script*, and Gadi said that we shouldn't modify it at this point,
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| 00:42 | Because in other ldm* places it didn't work correctly (either left ghost processes, or it caused flickering)
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| 00:42 | <vagrantc> yes, but you can put it in screen-session.d/XS00-halt-reboot in the ldm-trunk package
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| 00:42 | <alkisg> No, because that causes flickering (X starts before the shutdown)
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| 00:42 | <vagrantc> ldm-trunk can (and should) ship hooks to ltsp that are only relevent to ldm.
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| 00:42 | it's just a matter of which source ships the files.
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| 00:42 | you can put it in the same exact place.
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| 00:42 | <alkisg> Then we'd need a hook for "after X stops". We currently don't have one, do we?
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| 00:43 | Ah
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| 00:43 | Now I got it
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| 00:43 | <vagrantc> i think we'd have to add the screen-session.d stuff to ldm, but that's where it belongs.
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| 00:43 | just like ldm ships the screen script for ldm support on ltsp.
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| 00:44 | <alkisg> Well that's fine from me, and sorry that I didn't think about it
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| 00:44 | <vagrantc> it's one of those pedantic things that i try to keep a watch on :)
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| 00:45 | <alkisg> I *did* ping a lot of people to watch over my first commit, though :D
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| 00:45 | <vagrantc> alkisg: no big deal :)
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| 00:45 | moved it to /var/run, at least :)
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| 00:46 | <alkisg> I just thought that the debian policy said that one package shouldn't write files in another package's directories....
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| 00:46 | ...so I just went with the flow and put it where all other screen-session.d/* scripts were :)
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| 00:46 | <vagrantc> *.d directories are hooks explicitly designed for other packages to drop files into
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| 00:47 | <alkisg> vagrantc: in any case, it isn't strictly an ldm thing
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| 00:47 | <vagrantc> they're not supposed to modify other packages files, particularly files in /etc, but *.d directories are made to allow one package to extend the functional.ity of another
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| 00:47 | alkisg: then why is the file called /var/run/ldm-logout-action ?
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| 00:48 | <alkisg> Because it was already named as such :D
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| 00:48 | (from the previous stgraber attempt)
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| 00:48 | I thought of renaming it, but then I decided not to divert too much
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| 00:48 | <vagrantc> fair enough
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| 00:48 | what other things would actually make use of it?
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| 00:49 | <alkisg> So e.g. one could use it from a kiosk session... or even from rdesktop
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| 00:49 | <vagrantc> ok, well... then the file should stay in ltsp-trunk
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| 00:49 | <alkisg> Heh ;)
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| 00:50 | <vagrantc> though the name leads to confusion, then
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| 00:50 | <alkisg> You're right on that, but I ldm *is* the main way to use that trick
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| 00:50 | Sure, if I was writing this from scratch, I'd name it ltsp-logout-action or something...
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| 00:51 | Or even just ltsp-halt-reboot, because there won't always be a logout involved
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| 00:52 | <vagrantc> seems like one uses /tmp/ldm-logout-action and one uses /var/run/ldm-logout-action
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| 00:52 | <alkisg> Right, that was because stgraber couldn't write to /var/run (it ran as user, not as root)
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| 00:53 | <vagrantc> right ...
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| 00:53 | so it's two different mechanisms for the same thing?
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| 00:53 | <cyberorg> alkisg, we need this patch to make our build system happy, http://pastebin.com/dc1faff1 GenericName and Categories
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| 00:54 | renamed it to LTSP Client Reboot as it is confusing if user hits that icon and nothing happens on normal session
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| 00:54 | <alkisg> vagrantc: yes, and *maybe* stgraber will sometime deprecate his, I don't know...
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| 00:54 | * vagrantc is trying to get it figured out before uploading to debian | |
| 00:55 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I'm OK with whatever changes you think appropriate :)
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| 00:56 | <vagrantc> i'll poke stgraber to see if it'll be deprecated
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| 00:56 | and then i'll just make sure it doesn't hit a debian stable release
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| 00:58 | cyberorg: seems like changing the icon may not be compatible with other distros
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| 00:58 | <cyberorg> alkisg, is it possible to install .desktop files via makeinstall instead of putting it in doc?
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| 00:58 | <vagrantc> though it's just an example anyways
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| 00:59 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, yes that is why i used something generic enough "gdm"
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| 00:59 | <alkisg> cyberorg: yes, but at least Ubuntu afaik doesn't want to install any ltsp .desktop files...
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| 00:59 | They're just there as examples
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| 01:00 | <cyberorg> ok np, i do it from rpm spec so will carry on with that :)
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| 01:00 | <alkisg> And if this gets accepted, they won't be at all useful anymore: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/491940
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| 01:01 | vagrantc: if you think we should change the xprop name, I'll need to propose a different patch for gnome-session, so please tell me soon enough for Lucid :)
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| 01:01 | <vagrantc> alkisg: gah.
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| 01:02 | alkisg: i think the name *should* be made generic, yes.
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| 01:02 | weather it's worth it, i don't know.
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| 01:02 | * alkisg wonders why there's only feedback *after* the commit, and not before :D | |
| 01:02 | <vagrantc> alkisg: sorry ... was caught up with other things and saw a flurry of activity...
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| 01:03 | alkisg: i tried commenting on irc as much as i could...
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| 01:03 | <alkisg> Nah, sorry for my inexperience
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| 01:06 | cyberorg: I don't remember why, but in iTalc I preferred to use dbus to tell gnome to logout instead of calling gnome-session-save: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/36400397/local_system_ica.diff
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| 01:08 | <cyberorg> alkisg, you get feedback after commit because every tests it after that :)
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| 01:08 | <alkisg> Heh, well at least for Ubuntu I had packages in my PPA before commiting the patch
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| 01:08 | * vagrantc hasn't even tested it yet | |
| 01:09 | <vagrantc> just spent time building packages
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| 01:09 | <cyberorg> alkisg, building packages locally works, our build service complains if it does not like something, the icon, GenericName and Category was missing, without that packages don't build
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| 01:10 | <alkisg> vagrantc: the way stgraber did it, left me with ghost processes, that's one of the main reason I tried to do it in a different way (the other one being that xprop would work even if localapps are disabled)
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| 01:10 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yeah, seems better.
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| 01:10 | <alkisg> cyberorg: I've never even seen those .desktop files, they're in the ltsp source tree?
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| 01:10 | * alkisg looks... | |
| 01:11 | <cyberorg> in localapps/doc/examples
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| 01:12 | <alkisg> cyberorg: ah, you are *not* using my patch :)
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| 01:12 | <cyberorg> alkisg, i suspect gnome-session-save is just a wrapper that does dbus call or the other way around
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| 01:12 | <alkisg> That's stgraber's patch
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| 01:12 | It was there for some time...
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| 01:12 | <cyberorg> ah, so we have two ways of doing that?
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| 01:13 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 01:13 | Don't you have ghost processes on the server when you use stgraber's way of doing it?
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| 01:13 | <cyberorg> now that you mention it i'll pay attention :)
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| 01:14 | <alkisg> But also that way localapps need to be enabled...
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| 01:14 | (for it to work)
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| 01:15 | <cyberorg> hmm, so what is your way to do it?
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| 01:16 | for this there was no patching required, just new ltsp packages were enough
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| 01:17 | <alkisg> Yes, because the patch was there for some time now
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| 01:17 | <cyberorg> there should be DE independent way of doing this, getting gnome-session patched will just get gnome working, not all the other DEs
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| 01:18 | <alkisg> my way: xprop -root -f LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION 8s -set LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION REBOOT (and call gnome logout)
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| 01:18 | It's basically the same way, but it's handled by a different code in the scripts
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| 01:19 | So the "echo" part is done from the client side, not from the .desktop file
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| 01:20 | <cyberorg> then you need to create at least one more patch for KDE too :)
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| 01:21 | <alkisg> For the .desktop file?
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| 01:22 | It'd be nice if we could send those patches upstream to kde-session and gnome-session...
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| 01:22 | This way it'd work even if someone tried to reboot via dbus
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| 01:22 | <cyberorg> no, .desktop way does not require any DE patching
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| 01:23 | <alkisg> E.g. now with the patched gnome-session, I can properly reboot the client not only from the gnome menus, but also from iTalc etc
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| 01:24 | <cyberorg> need patch for gnome-session, the one that is not a patch to a patch :)
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| 01:25 | we can discuss with vuntz to get it in gnome 2.28.2 if possible
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| 01:27 | <alkisg> Ugh, I wouldn't know how to test with vanilla gnome-session... Does debian have a vanilla gnome-session?
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| 01:30 | * alkisg reboots because of a weird X problems he's been experiencing once per week the last months... :( | |
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| 01:46 | * vagrantc hopes other distros start using ltsp-info ... | |
| 01:49 | <Ryan52> what's ltsp-info?
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| 01:50 | <cyberorg> alkisg, you are right there are a lot of processes around after shutdown
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| 01:51 | <alkisg> cyberorg: yup, and because my patch is using the same xprop name as stgraber's patch, the only way to properly reboot is to *remove* stgraber's patch :-/
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| 01:52 | Maybe that would give us another reason to do as vagrantc said and rename the xprop to something that doesn't have "ldm" in it :D
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| 01:53 | vagrantc: isn't that upstream now? why wouldn't the other distros include it?
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| 01:56 | Also btw, the fact that ghost processes remain after the user logs off and are only terminated when X shuts down properly, I think means that we are doing something wrong in the session-closing code...
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| 02:00 | <cyberorg> alkisg, what changes are required in client chroot for xprop -root -f LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION 8s -set LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION HALT to work?
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| 02:01 | <alkisg> cyberorg: the one and only commit I've made :D
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| 02:01 | * alkisg looks for the link.. | |
| 02:01 | <cyberorg> alkisg, that is already in our package, but nothing seem to happen when running that
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| 02:03 | <alkisg> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/1465
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| 02:03 | Do you have the client/screen-session.d/XS00-halt-reboot file?
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| 02:04 | Hmmm where's the X99 file diff?
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| 02:04 | <vagrantc> alkisg: it's upstream, but gotta remind the distros to include it
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| 02:06 | <alkisg> Ah, it's on the ldm-trunk, right...
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| 02:06 | <cyberorg> alkisg, yes it is there in the client chroot
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| 02:06 | <alkisg> cyberorg: and you also have the ldm patch? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk/revision/1223
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| 02:07 | <cyberorg> ldm still needs patch? i thought that was committed
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| 02:07 | <alkisg> Yes, it is
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| 02:07 | I mean the commited ldm patch :D
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| 02:09 | If those 2 files LDM/rc.d/X99-zzz-logout-action and LTSP/client/screen-session.d/XS00-halt-reboot contain the new code, then runing `xprop -root -f LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION 8s -set LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION HALT` and then logging off should poweroff the client
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| 02:09 | <cyberorg> i see your changes in X99-zzz-logout-action too
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| 02:09 | <alkisg> (without leaving ghost processes)
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| 02:10 | <cyberorg> oh you mean log out is still required?
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| 02:10 | <alkisg> Yup, the xprop only "marks" that a halt is needed after logoff
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| 02:10 | <cyberorg> ok that seems to have worked, log out halted the client
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| 02:11 | and no ugly leftover processes
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| 02:11 | <alkisg> So in the desktop files something like this would be needed: sh -c 'prop -root -f LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION 8s -set LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION HALT; logoff'
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| 02:13 | Exec=sh -c '-root -f LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION 8s -set LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION HALT; gnome-session-save --logout'
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| 02:13 | damn forgot the xprop
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| 02:13 | Exec=sh -c 'xprop -root -f LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION 8s -set LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION HALT; gnome-session-save --logout'
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| 02:14 | <cyberorg> Exec=sh -c 'xprop -root -f LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION 8s -set LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION HALT; gnome-session-save --logout'
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| 02:14 | <alkisg> Right
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| 02:14 | ; is better than && here
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| 02:15 | <cyberorg> you copy paste faster :)
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| 02:15 | <alkisg> ;) We could also change that to an "ltsp-logoff" script, and just call that
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| 02:15 | (that would automatically detect if KDE/gnome etc is used)
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| 02:16 | * alkisg prefers the gnome-session patch, though :D | |
| 02:18 | <cyberorg> there must be something like XDG_LOGOFF
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| 02:23 | fixed the package, patched .desktop file to your procedure :)
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| 02:24 | http://pastebin.com/d20436e17
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| 02:24 | works perfect now
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| 02:25 | can you update the .desktop in example to use this?
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| 02:31 | <alkisg> cyberorg: I think stgraber should do that, as he's the one that provided the .desktop file
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| 02:32 | Or someone else, it's my first patch, I wouldn't want to get too intrusive :D
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| 02:32 | *commit
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| 02:35 | <cyberorg> alkisg, you will only be improving it by putting proper command :)
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| 02:37 | <alkisg> cyberorg: ok, but I'll need an OK from stgraber first. I'll ping him whenever I find him :)
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| 02:37 | <cyberorg> of course :)
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| 02:38 | <alkisg> Ah, we don't have anything similar for KDE, do we?
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| 02:40 | iTalc says that this is for KDE logout: dcop ksmserver ksmserver logout 0 0 0
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| 02:42 | <cyberorg> kde is a mess, kde3 and kde4 may be different
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| 02:42 | <alkisg> Ugh
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| 02:42 | I really wish xdg gets gnome & kde more close...
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| 02:43 | <cyberorg> let me test kde4
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| 02:46 | <alkisg> That iTalc line should be from the kde3 era, so if it works on KDE4, then I guess it's good enough to provide as an example in ltsp.
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| 02:49 | <cyberorg> i get "ERROR: Couldn't attach to DCOP server"
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| 02:57 | <alkisg> cyberorg: Is that from within the session? Or from a terminal outside of X?
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| 02:57 | Maybe KDE4 switched to dbus...
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| 02:58 | <cyberorg> alkisg, kde does not use dcop anymore, it is now dbus
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| 02:58 | <alkisg> Right, so I guess we'd need to run d-feet to see the proper dbus call
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| 02:58 | (or just google it :))
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| 02:58 | Heh, anyway, I never use KDE so I'll just pass on that :)
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| 03:04 | <ogra> soo ...
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| 03:05 | i wonder ...
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| 03:05 | if we use xprop for all communication already ...
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| 03:05 | instead of attaching dbus to ssh we should probably just have communication to the client dbus going through xprop too ...
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| 03:06 | <cyberorg> xprop -root -f LTSP_GREETING 8s -s GREET_OGRA HAI
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| 03:06 | <ogra> i wonder if the traffic gets to high for that ... dbus can be noisy, but i imagine its way easier to implement
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| 03:07 | hey cyberorg
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| 03:07 | * cyberorg logs out of kde via GUI | |
| 03:07 | <ogra> congrats
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| 03:09 | your method doesnt really integrate with the desktop logout buttons, does it ?
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| 03:12 | <cyberorg> ogra, that was just giving up finding kde command to log out
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| 03:12 | <ogra> heh
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| 03:12 | kde should send a dbus message as gnome-session does
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| 03:13 | <cyberorg> found this "qdbus org.kde.ksmserver /KSMServer logout 0 0 0" that works, but the person who suggested has 0 2 0 instead of 0 0 0
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| 03:13 | <ogra> probably we should just capture that specific message on the server
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| 03:13 | right, i guess qdbus just sends a message to the system dbus
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| 03:13 | similar to gnome
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| 03:13 | <cyberorg> hmm, that was typo from him, it is 0 0 0
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| 03:14 | <ogra> ltsp should have a listener that sits on top of the system dbus on the server ... and steals the messages ...
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| 03:15 | * ogra is brainstorming .... i'm on holiday and actually have some time for ltsp work | |
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| 03:24 | <cyberorg> alkisg, here is the script to logoff according to kde/gnome http://pastebin.com/m128745d
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| 03:59 | <alkisg> cyberorg: 0 2 0 might mean reboot instead of logout, or might mean "force logout" or something...
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| 03:59 | <cyberorg> alkisg, that was a typo
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| 03:59 | <alkisg> ogra, well, since you're on holidays, what better way to spend them than mergins the d-buses :P :D
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| 03:59 | * alkisg is just kidding... | |
| 04:00 | <alkisg> cyberorg: why don't you commit a .desktop example file for KDE as well? I imagine KDE users would appreciate it...
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| 04:01 | <cyberorg> alkisg, two different .desktop files shouldn't be required, just replacing log out command with a call to script ^^
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| 04:01 | <alkisg> cyberorg: also, GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID=this-is-deprecated
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| 04:02 | I don't think you should rely on an environment variable to see that, I think it'd be better if you checked if sessionmanager is running
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| 04:02 | (or even pgrep gnome-session)
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| 04:02 | <cyberorg> alkisg, see detectDE() in /usr/bin/xdg-su
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| 04:03 | <alkisg> I don't have that file, but: echo $GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID
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| 04:03 | this-is-deprecated
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| 04:03 | I trust gnome itself more than some example :)
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| 04:04 | <cyberorg> hmm, yes it says "this-is-deprecated"
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| 04:04 | so we use whatever new way turns up in xdg
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| 04:04 | <alkisg> I think the proper way would be to see if the gnome session manager is running on the system dbus
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| 04:04 | (or the session dbus)
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| 04:06 | <alkisg> E.g. call org.gnome.SessionManager.CanShutdown() and see if the call is available, and what it returns
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| 04:06 | If it returns true, then we're in a gnome session, and we can shutdown.
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| 04:08 | cyberorg: dbus-send --session --dest=org.gnome.SessionManager --type=method_call --print-reply --reply-timeout=2000 /org/gnome/SessionManager org.gnome.SessionManager.CanShutdown
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| 04:08 | method return sender=:1.3 -> dest=:1.684 reply_serial=2
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| 04:08 | boolean true
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| 04:08 | If that returns true, then we're in a gnome session.
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| 04:10 | But I guess you could also just call both of the DE logout functions - I don't see how it would hurt... => 2 dbus-send calls
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| 04:10 | You could even put both of the calls in the .desktop file, and avoid the need to ship a logout script
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| 04:18 | <cyberorg> something like this? http://pastebin.com/d20e286
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| 04:30 | <alkisg> cyberorg: or like this: Exec=sh -c 'xprop etc; gnome-session-save --logout; qdbus org.kde.ksmserver /KSMServer logout 0 0 0"
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| 04:31 | <cyberorg> alkisg, ah send both commands :)
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| 04:31 | <alkisg> This way no ltsp-logoff script would be needed...
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| 04:31 | It's a hack, but well, the proper way here would be for ltsp to listen for dbus events :D
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| 04:36 | <cyberorg> alkisg, it works :)
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| 04:37 | <alkisg> cyberorg: also, .desktop files have an OnlyShowIn=GNOME (or KDE or XFCE) entry , so one could have multiple desktop files and only one would show up depending on the DE
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| 04:37 | This may be better, as it can have different icons depending on the DE
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| 04:38 | * cyberorg likes this hack for its simplicity | |
| 04:38 | <alkisg> So, 2 .desktop files, one for KDE and one for GNOME, with the respective OnlyShowIn entry (and later on 1 .desktop file for XFCE)
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| 04:38 | And both of the desktop files would be installed, no need to only install only one of them
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| 04:38 | E.g. try: grep OnlyShowIn /etc/xdg/autostart/*.desktop
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| 04:40 | Tjat
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| 04:41 | That's also the way synaptic uses:
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| 04:41 | dpkg -L synaptic|grep desktop
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| 04:41 | /usr/share/applications/synaptic.desktop
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| 04:41 | /usr/share/applications/synaptic-kde.desktop
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| 04:41 | <cyberorg> we use it for compiz settings tool
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| 04:42 | <alkisg> It may be better, as it allows for different icons. E.g. KDE might not have the gnome icon...
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| 04:42 | <cyberorg> true
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| 04:42 | * alkisg still prefers the gnome-session patch, though :) | |
| 04:42 | <cyberorg> we can ship our own icons though
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| 04:43 | <alkisg> Right, but it's also more elegant (to not execute 3 commands in a row without checking the DE first )
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| 04:43 | And "OnlyShowIn" is quite standard: http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apb.html
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| 04:44 | <cyberorg> we need xdg-logout script to take care of all possible DEs
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| 04:47 | <alkisg> Yeah, that'd be nice... or even a standarized dbus function call
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| 09:29 | <dmarkey_> has anyone here used the spice protocol
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| 10:24 | <ehrenpr> can anyone help me setup opendns with my edubuntu server. i have configured dhcpd.conf with opendns address, but it doesnt seem to be working. I have a two nic setup.
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| 10:30 | <alkisg> ehrenpr: put DNS_SERVER=<ip> and SEARCH_DOMAIN=local in lts.conf
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| 10:31 | <alkisg> Also, you'll need to do NATting or something on the server...
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| 10:31 | <ehrenpr> do I need to also chane /etc/resolv.conf
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| 10:31 | <alkisg> distro/version?
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| 10:31 | <ehrenpr> change
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| 10:31 | <ehrenpr> edubutu karmic
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| 10:32 | <alkisg> There's a bug about resolv.conf in Karmic, so you either have to put the patch, or use stgraber's PPA which has a newer ltsp version with the bug fixed
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| 10:32 | !stgraber-ppa
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| 10:32 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "stgraber-ppa" :: https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive/ppa
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| 10:34 | <ehrenpr> ok. let me try that
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| 10:34 | <alkisg> ehrenpr: why do you want this DNS? Do you use localapps?
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| 10:36 | <ehrenpr> yes. Also I need some filtering for my school. and figured this would be the simplest way to go
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| 10:37 | do you recommend something else
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| 10:46 | <Ahmuck-Jr> endian firewall
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| 10:46 | and dans guardian
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| 10:46 | there are some firefox add ons that do filtering as well
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| 10:46 | ehrenpr: u from the us?
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| 10:50 | <ehrenpr> yes western ny. I have used opendns filtering at home and find it a good start, but Working at a school I want to be extra cautios and setup a couple levels
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| 17:13 | <SalsaDoom> Hi fellas. Having a problem with logging into an ubuntu 9.10 ltsp server. It boots ok, and loads up an x11 login screen just fine -- but any user account says "authentification failed". /var/log/auth.log doesn't show anything about this..
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| 17:13 | <SalsaDoom> Now, I've read what appears to be the relevant documentation, but there really isn't a lot. Google hasn't helped me either so far...
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| 21:41 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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