IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 23 January 2008 (all times are UTC)
| 00:37 | tuukka has joined #ltsp | |
| 00:42 | <tuukka> good morning (might be evening for some :) )! i usually end up finding things i need through google or similar, but now i just seem to hit a brick wall: does someone have a good link (or tip) how to set thin clients power settings??
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| 00:42 | oops, i'm using gutsy...
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| 00:55 | <sutula> tuukka: I take it the normal gnome (or whatever) controls aren't working the way you expect?
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| 01:28 | <tuukka> sutula: thanks for the response, but as you said they don't seem to work at all ... i was wondering if i could find i file or something that would have the "power saving" values
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| 01:30 | <johnny> usually you use gnome-power-manager
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| 01:34 | <tuukka> do i understand right, that if i use System - Settings - Power Saving (terms might be wrong -> i'm using finnish version) it should affect both the server and the thin-clients??
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| 01:37 | <sutula> tuukka: I have more info...just a few minutes
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| 01:37 | <tuukka> sutula: okay, thanks! i'm in no rush :)
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| 01:43 | <sutula> tuukka: Sorry...was on a couple of back-to-back calls...I don't know what your application was, but I had a thin client that kept wanting to power-down, and I wanted the display to stay up.
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| 01:44 | tuukka: I couldn't get gnome-power-manager to do what I wanted...eventually, I removed it from starting at login.
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| 01:44 | tuukka: Still, the terminal powered-down after 20 mins or so...eventually, I found that the X server (running on the client) has default
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| 01:45 | timeouts...you can control them with xset
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| 01:45 | <tuukka> sutula: this sounds really promising!
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| 01:45 | <sutula> tuukka: See xset --dpms and -s
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| 01:46 | tuukka: So after removing gnome-power-manager from the startup session programs, I use xset in a couple of cron jobs to set the power settings I really want...one for daytime and one for night
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| 01:46 | I'm much happier now :)
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| 01:47 | <tuukka> sutula: okay, this sounds like a solution that could also work for me! Huge Thanks! I'll see into this more deeply...
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| 01:47 | <johnny> if gnome-power-manager doesn't work, that sucks
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| 01:47 | :(
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| 01:48 | <sutula> (This particular thin client is a display on my wall, and it's usually doubling as a digital picture frame during the day, when someone isn't using it as a computer)
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| 01:48 | I have it power-down the display at night
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| 01:48 | <johnny> that's pretty cool
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| 01:48 | <sutula> johnny: It's a nice use of an e-bay 18" Elo touchscreen!
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| 01:49 | We keep calendars and other organizational stuff on it, so you can just walk up and touch it a few times to find what you need
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| 01:51 | tuukka: If you put xset in a script, you can run the script during login (the same way gnome-power-manager was getting run)
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| 01:54 | <tuukka> sutula: i'll try this! Thanks!
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| 01:56 | <sutula> np
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| 01:57 | * sutula heads to bed...almost 1 AM here | |
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| 06:12 | <solv_> does anyone know if the bug #160420 has been fixed yet...concerning local drive access not working?
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| 06:12 | or do i need to go in and manually fix the files?
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| 06:12 | <ogra1> you need t fix the files
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| 06:12 | *to
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| 06:12 | <solv_> how long until this can be updated in the ubuntu repos?
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| 06:13 | <solv_> it's a fairly common problem...
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| 06:14 | not helping me convince the dean of my college that ltsp is a great way to go....when students can't use pen drives or cdroms!
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| 06:15 | so can you please clarify...are these the correct instructions at this link? http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.terminal-server.general/22270
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| 06:17 | <ogra1> yes
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| 06:17 | <solv_> thankyou
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| 06:17 | <ogra1> > There is a line in /usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter on the server:
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| 06:17 | >
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| 06:17 | > env['DISPLAY'] = 'localhost:10.0'
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| 06:17 | thats the essential part
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| 06:17 | delayed-mounter only cares for floppies ....
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| 06:17 | <solv_> ah okay....interestingly...everytime i did rebuilt the image it seemed to fix the problem...and then a day later it was back again
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| 06:18 | okay...thanx..floppies are almost never used
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| 06:18 | <ogra1> well, its likely the fact that you were lucky and had DISPLAY as localhost:10.0
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| 06:18 | <solv_> i see
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| 06:19 | ogra1, well i guess the best place for me to ask for this to be fixed soon is in launchpad?
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| 06:19 | <ogra1> the fix is in review ... there is a slightly slow paperwork intensive process involved to update the package in a release
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| 06:19 | <solv_> ogra1,
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| 06:19 | woops
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| 06:19 | okay...i will leave it
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| 06:20 | <ogra1> ... to make sure we dot brea more than we fix :)
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| 06:20 | <solv_> as long as something is in motion i'm happy with that
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| 06:20 | <ogra1> *break
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| 06:20 | <solv_> true
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| 06:20 | dat
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| 06:20 | <ogra1> :)
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| 06:20 | <solv_> so have suse got their act together yet
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| 06:20 | <ogra1> its fixed in hardy though
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| 06:20 | <solv_> incorporating ltsp5?
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| 06:21 | <ogra1> suse has something own ... based on their liveCD building tool kiwi
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| 06:21 | <solv_> yeah i don't really understand kiwi
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| 06:21 | <ogra1> its rather hybrid between ltsp 4.x and ltsp5
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| 06:21 | <solv_> but i like opensuse a little more the ubuntu...and would love to try it out as a ltsp server
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| 06:22 | <ogra1> i would love to see them integrating their stuff into ltsp5 upstream
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| 06:22 | but that requires manpower from their side thats not there atm
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| 06:22 | s all we can do in ltsp land is wait atm
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| 06:22 | <solv_> i was running a fedora 5 with ltsp 4.2, and that was awesome...didn't crash once...but with the 6 month release cycle for fedora...reinstalling your software on a student server every 6 months is NOT an option
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| 06:23 | ogra1, yeah i understand...i hope they get there
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| 06:23 | * ogra1 needs to lunch now ... bbl | |
| 06:23 | <solv_> cool...thx
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| 06:23 | <ogra1> :)
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| 06:56 | <tarzeau> how can i have a different xorg.conf than the one i get?
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| 06:57 | <ogra1> you can a) use lts.conf to adjust single values .... or b) use a static xorg.conf you copy into the client environment and point to from lts.conf via the X_CONF variable
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| 07:10 | <tarzeau> ogra1: a) how does that line look like? i need two more font paths
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| 07:10 | ogra1: the other thing i don't want to, since i don't want to manage one more config file for many hosts
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| 09:40 | <Gadi> ogra1: gutentag
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| 09:51 | <cliebow_> Hai!
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| 11:22 | <iMacGyver> i'm using ltsp with edubuntu and i'm trying to disable screen blanking, the screensavers are off, how do you add settings to the generated xorg.conf?
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| 11:30 | ok, you can set X_DPMS_* options in lts.conf
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| 11:36 | <lns> iMacGyver, where did you find that info?
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| 11:43 | <iMacGyver> http://ltsp.sourceforge.net/ltsp-4.1.1.html
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| 11:43 | old documentation :-p
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| 11:43 | i'm going to set all the values to 0 and see if it helps
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| 11:45 | <Gadi> iMacGyver: that won't work - but you CAN add an Xsession script on the server that executes: xset -dpms ; xset s off
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| 11:46 | <iMacGyver> Gadi: why won't that work?
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| 11:47 | <Gadi> X_DPMS_* I dont believe are ltsp5 vars
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| 11:47 | at least, I don't see them used in configure-x.sh
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| 11:47 | <iMacGyver> hmm
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| 11:47 | <Gadi> so, just do it at the server
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| 11:50 | <iMacGyver> looking at the files in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/Xsession.d/ they say they are sourced and not executed...
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| 11:54 | should i just exec that?
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| 12:01 | <lns> Gadi, is configure-x.sh where all lts.conf options live?
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| 12:04 | <Gadi> iMacGyver: add a script that says something like: xset s off || true
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| 12:05 | (add the || true, so it doesnt break things if xset fails)
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| 12:05 | lns: no - that script configures X
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| 12:09 | <iMacGyver> Gadi: where?
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| 12:10 | <Gadi> iMacGyver: on the server in /etc/X11/Xsession.d
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| 12:10 | not on the client
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| 12:10 | no need to modify the client
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| 12:10 | <iMacGyver> ah ok
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| 12:20 | Gadi: i put it on the server in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/83-monitor-stay-on but when i log in with a client i do an xset -q and it says dpms is enabled...could something be turning it on?
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| 12:20 | <Gadi> hmm... try doing a lower number, like 10
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| 12:20 | <iMacGyver> xset -dpms || true
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| 12:22 | same thing
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| 12:23 | <Gadi> hmm... maybe you screensaver is enabling it
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| 12:23 | are yo uusing gnome?
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| 12:23 | <iMacGyver> yes, using gnome
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| 12:23 | <Gadi> have you tried either adjusting gnome-screensaver or eliminating it from your session startup?
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| 12:23 | <iMacGyver> screensaver is set to never activate...but is running
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| 12:24 | <Gadi> try adding a gnome startup script with xset -dpms
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| 12:25 | <iMacGyver> ok, disabled 'power-managment' session startup and now dpms stays disabled
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| 12:31 | <lns> Gadi, so have X_DPMS settings within lts.conf just been eliminated from ltsp5? Seems like something worth porting!
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| 12:32 | I have some issues with thin clients on occasion that blank the screen and won't come back.
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| 12:32 | * vagrantc didn't know there were X_DPMS settings | |
| 12:32 | <vagrantc> there's certainly no code to handle those options in lts.conf ... there were in 4.x ?
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| 12:33 | <lns> vagrantc, as far as http://ltsp.sourceforge.net/ltsp-4.1.1.html says, yes
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| 12:33 | <vagrantc> lns: file a wishlist bug
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| 12:33 | <lns> ok
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| 12:36 | <ogra1> well, it wouldnt have helped at all in that case ...
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| 12:36 | (and we dont set them by default)
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| 12:38 | vagrantc, dpms is something to be handled at runtime in userspace nowadays ...
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| 12:39 | <lns> ogra1, do you mean it needs to be configured per-user?
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| 12:39 | <vagrantc> ogra1: well, it should be handled somewhere
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| 12:39 | <lns> i know userspace is just not privilged kernelspace..but where can we configure dpms on a network-wide level?
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| 12:39 | Just filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/185443
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| 12:39 | <ogra1> /apps/gnome-power-manager/backlight/dpms_method_ac sets it in gnome and there is an equivalent in KDE as well
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| 12:40 | with the full dropping of xorg.conf andthe switch to sysfs for X settings that wil all change anyway
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| 12:40 | (upstream)
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| 12:41 | witin the next 6 monts we need to get hal on the clients etc to have mouse and keyboard settings support :/
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| 12:41 | <vagrantc> eeyk.
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| 12:42 | <ogra1> i'm fine to add the option as long as we still use xorg.conf, but its really something to be handled in the session in userspace in the near future
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| 12:42 | xorg will totally rely on hal soon
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| 12:44 | <johnny> yay
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| 12:45 | <ogra1> johnny, that means we'll have to raise the HW requirements again
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| 12:45 | running hal, dbus and friends on a thin client isnt actually cheap ressource wise
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| 12:45 | <johnny> it should be optimized
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| 12:46 | but so should lots of gnome :)
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| 12:59 | <lns> hmm
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| 12:59 | i guess that throws "cheap, recycled hardware" out the window of possibility for thin clients.. =p
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| 13:01 | <johnny> lns, if you want that, use xfce instead of gnome
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| 13:01 | or fluxbox
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| 13:02 | but really the problem is apps like openoffice and firefox
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| 13:02 | <lns> right
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| 13:02 | <johnny> not gnome itself
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| 13:02 | that's my experience
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| 13:02 | <lns> well all that stuff is run on the server
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| 13:02 | at least for the most part
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| 13:02 | dbus/hardware stuff needs to be loaded directly on the client
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| 13:03 | which increases h/w requirements
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| 13:03 | <johnny> sure.. but that could be optimized
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| 13:03 | <lns> optimized enough so people won't have to purchase new thin clients if they have a P300 w/64mb ram?
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| 13:04 | <johnny> 64 is awful low
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| 13:04 | imo
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| 13:04 | <lns> agreed
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| 13:04 | but that's what was touted as "plenty" when i got into ltsp
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| 13:04 | <lns> which was...a year ago?
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| 13:04 | <johnny> hmm.. i don't know anything about that ;)
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| 13:04 | on gnome?
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| 13:04 | <lns> gnome is run on the server
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| 13:05 | <johnny> the server side hardware
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| 13:05 | is still pretty hardcore with gnome
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| 13:05 | <lns> the school district that i work for was outraged that, when a competing company was installign a windows based thin client environment, they said they had to up the ram from 128mb to 512
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| 13:05 | <johnny> 128 should be fine
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| 13:06 | i don't see how hal would make you go up from that
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| 13:06 | <lns> i don't know specifically how much hal/friends will take up ...
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| 13:06 | <johnny> lemme see
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| 13:07 | <stgraber> well, I have been able to run a standard Ubuntu desktop (dbus+hal+X+gnome+...) on a 300Mhz and 128MB (installing using the alternate installer though)
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| 13:07 | <johnny> looks like less than 5 mb
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| 13:07 | in total
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| 13:07 | <stgraber> so RAM shouldn't be the problem if dbus and hal are added
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| 13:08 | <johnny> i don't know how much exactly
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| 13:08 | i could add it up i guess
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| 13:08 | if gnome was optimized just a bit more
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| 13:08 | you'd never even notice
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| 13:08 | * johnny wonders | |
| 13:09 | <johnny> how they would interact with server side hal
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| 13:09 | maybe it can run the processing on the server
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| 13:09 | and the listening on the client
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| 13:09 | ie: minihal
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| 13:09 | just talks to the main one
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| 13:09 | something like that
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| 13:09 | lns, there's lots of opportunity
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| 13:09 | but nobody is funding it.. so it's slow going
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| 13:10 | <lns> well my specific situation is this
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| 13:10 | i have 6 labs of 35 computers each with 64mb ram
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| 13:10 | they're celery 500's
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| 13:10 | <johnny> nice processing at least
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| 13:10 | <lns> so if ltsp requirements go up to 128 or whatever because of anything, the district IT manager is not going to be a happy camper
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| 13:10 | <johnny> more cache would be nice, but it's fast enough..
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| 13:10 | well you don't have to upgrade :)
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| 13:11 | <lns> good =) that's what my main concern was (even though i was probably jumping to conclusions...i need one of those mats =p)
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| 13:11 | <johnny> yes.. you were :)
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| 13:11 | <lns> you see
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| 13:11 | <johnny> just saying i personally would never buy anything less than128 for mine
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| 13:11 | <lns> there would be these different CONCLUSIONS
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| 13:11 | <johnny> for the future
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| 13:11 | <lns> that you could JUMP to! =p
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| 13:11 | right...well these were old machines they were going to replace if they couldn't get something going (like ltsp) on them
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| 13:12 | <johnny> cuz i would like the possiblity of running local apps
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| 13:12 | especially for stuff like ekiga/skype whatever
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| 13:12 | <lns> all of my ltsp customers like the fact that they can run it on aging, existing hardware
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| 13:12 | <stgraber> looking at my current usage, it's like 7MB for hal+dbus
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| 13:13 | <johnny> how much is actually in use on the clients now lns ? i'm not near my env to check
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| 13:13 | <lns> i'll have to check next time when i'm on site
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| 13:13 | * johnny tries to figure out how to deal with sabayon's xsession-errors spew | |
| 13:14 | <lns> bbl
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| 13:33 | <vagrantc> the ever-increasing demand for ram definitely puts a pinch on things.
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| 15:02 | <zodman> some alive ?
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| 15:03 | im have a dim keyboard ( a circular interface for old pc's 486)
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| 15:03 | when start the Xorg on ltsp client
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| 15:03 | the keyboard not function
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| 15:04 | <zodman> the keyboard is in /dev/input/event0
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| 15:04 | <zodman> how fix the proble
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| 15:05 | <vagrantc> doesn't recognize AT keyboard?
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| 15:06 | <zodman> on the termial yes
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| 15:06 | but the Xorg not
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| 15:06 | <vagrantc> zodman: X works, just no keyboard, or it fails to start X ?
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| 15:06 | <zodman> not fails vagrantc, the X is up
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| 15:06 | but not keyboard
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| 15:07 | the litghs's of caps not function
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| 15:07 | but before function good
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| 15:07 | the xorg not recognice AT keyboard
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| 15:08 | on mi hwinfo report the kernel recognize
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| 15:08 | the keyboard
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| 15:08 | <vagrantc> i don't even know where to start with that ... haven't really used AT keyboards for 4 or so years, really
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| 15:09 | <zodman> ok vagrantc tnx
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| 15:11 | vagrantc: a small question how restart the xserver on ltsp client ?
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| 15:13 | <stillflame> zodman: are you sitting at it right now, or trying to restart it remotely?
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| 15:14 | <zodman> both
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| 15:14 | :)
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| 15:14 | remote im on ssh on the client
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| 15:14 | remote
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| 15:14 | <stillflame> which login manager is it using, gdm or ldm?
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| 15:15 | well, `invoke-rc.d ldm restart`
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| 15:15 | <zodman> ok
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| 15:16 | <vagrantc> no, ldm isn't started in an init script
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| 15:16 | unfortunately
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| 15:17 | <zodman> yeah
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| 15:17 | im seen the X -query blah blah :myscreen
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| 15:18 | oooooooooooooh is function
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| 15:18 | jejeje
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| 15:19 | add the keyboar section the Option "Device" "dev/input/event0"
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| 15:19 | juaz
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| 16:31 | * warren just realized, there is no reason to have the mkdst wrapper script in each source repo anymore. | |
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| 16:56 | <Furlow> Im not actually using ltsp right now but I tried to set it up and failed miserably. I even tried edubuntu which comes with it installed already and had no luck , I have a Epox-4pda2+ and in the bios it has the option to enable the onboard boot rom, so i made sure it was selected on and i selected it as the first priority in the boot menu and still it wouldn't load from the network. just yestarday i pressed ESC and i noticed i could select what to boot from so
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| 16:56 | <Q-FUNK> warren: are you still on the road?
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| 16:57 | <warren> Q-FUNK, no, back now
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| 16:57 | Q-FUNK, my environment to boot a thin client is hosed, that's what I'm fixing now =)
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| 16:57 | <Q-FUNK> warren: ok. any items you guys feel like picking up in the -amd driver development?
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| 16:57 | <warren> Q-FUNK, after I got back I got really sick for a few days, food poisoning
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| 16:57 | Q-FUNK, it sounded like one of our X guys was going to port it to Xorg 1.5
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| 16:58 | Q-FUNK, have you seen any of that yet?
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| 16:58 | I don't know what their schedule is.
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| 16:58 | <Q-FUNK> warren: nope. it would be a good idea for him to contact us.
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| 16:58 | <Furlow> any help?
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| 16:59 | please?
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| 16:59 | <Q-FUNK> Furlow: sorry, your bug doesn't ring a bell here. maybe someone else knows. if they do, they will reply.
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| 16:59 | <Furlow> thanks
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| 17:00 | I think it might just be my pc and not a ltsp software problem
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| 17:00 | <Q-FUNK> warren: or more precisely, to contact bart
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| 17:00 | <warren> asking him now
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| 17:03 | <Q-FUNK> warren: we've got someone at ubuntu who made a patch against server 1.4, in addition to bart's 1.3 server patch. if someone can pick up ubuntu's 1.4 patch and massage this into somthing suitable for the upstream git tree, it would be neat.
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| 17:04 | warren: at any rate, contacting bart would be desirable, to avoid duplicated efforts
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| 17:04 | <Q-FUNK> warren: but if you guys can also pick up other items on the -amd wiki page, it would be nice.
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| 17:05 | <warren> Q-FUNK, I don't know what our people's schedule is, I need to find out.
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| 17:10 | <Q-FUNK> warren: ok. please keep us posted.
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| 17:35 | <Solv> i've noticed that the ubuntu ltsp uses it's own dhcp conf file under /etc/ltsp/dhcpd,conf rather than the systems own one under /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf....when i start the dhcp3-server daemon, which config file is it using? Also why does it not just use the servers own dhcp setup?
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| 17:36 | i want to be able to stup webmin to be able to control the dhcp server...so how can i tell it to use ltsp's conf file, or alternatively...get ltsp to use the standard one?
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| 17:57 | <johnny_> don't ask me why there is a seperate file..
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| 17:57 | luckily i didn't have to care
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| 17:57 | i used dnsmasq instead
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| 17:57 | <Solv> johnny, well it's driving me nuts...cause i don't know if it uses a seperate daemon, a seperate leases file...seperate hosts file etc etc
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| 18:03 | <johnny_> look in the init.d file
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| 18:03 | you'll see which is which
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| 18:05 | <Solv> yeah true...but if it does use the /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf file then it means some other daemon exists to launch /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
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| 18:07 | <centrauma> Hi everyone!!! I'm need help in edubuntu with ltsp5 the LDM_USERNAME in lts.conf not work only show black window with X cursor in screen. And not more.
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| 22:23 | <vagrantc> otavio: hrm. so i don't get it, but according to: http://lintian.debian.org/reports/maintainer/pkg-ltsp-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org.html#ltsp
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| 22:23 | otavio: there are several lintian errors i've never seen
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| 22:27 | <vagrantc> otavio: for some reason the manpages aren't getting installed ... even though when i build it in a clean pbuilder environment it works.
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| 22:27 | i'll post to the list about it
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| 22:48 | <vagrantc> oh, i think i just figured it out ...
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| 22:49 | the buildd's only do binary-arch, and we had the dh_installman in binary-indep
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