IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 17 September 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:17 | <ltspuser_26> Hi! I have a very simple question: Do the $99 thin clients from HP work with LTSP?
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| 02:31 | <ltspuser_01> I have a beginer question: Does LTSP work with the $99 thin clients from HP ?
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| 02:31 | <highvoltage> hi ltspuser_01
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| 02:31 | what a co-incidince, there was another user called ltspuser_26 earlier with the exact same question.
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| 02:31 | do you have a link with the specs?
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| 02:32 | <ltspuser_01> Yes, I have.
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| 02:32 | http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/12454-12454-321959-338927-5112717-5171156.html?dnr=1
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| 02:32 | The faile session was my client that crashed ...
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| 02:44 | <highvoltage> hmm, it says 1x vga but not what type
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| 02:44 | it has RJ-45 but it doesn't say it has pxe (I guess it could be assumed thatit has)
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| 02:47 | heh, the pdf goes into detail about its mounting brackets, etc but no juicy details
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| 02:47 | <stgraber> those are zero-clients, not thin clients
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| 02:48 | <highvoltage> ah so they're like those n-computing machines?
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| 02:48 | <stgraber> zero-clients are a bit weird in the sense that it's mostly proprietary technology and they vary from full fledge thin clients with custom software all the way to something that's roughly a board with an ethernet port, vga and USB but no CPU
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| 02:48 | <highvoltage> ah right.
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| 02:49 | <stgraber> those t200 look like those later kind of clients, where it's roughly something like displaylink but over ethernet
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| 02:50 | they apparently require a matching "server": http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/12454-12454-321959-338927-5112717-5096586.html?dnr=1
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| 02:50 | where they then refer to these clients as "seats", so a similar terminology as displaylink based hardware
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| 02:50 | so short answer, if I'm right, no, those won't work with LTSP and can't ever work with it
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| 02:56 | <ltspuser_01> but the DO work with Userful distribution: http://www.userful.com
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| 02:58 | I guessa better link is: http://www.userful.com/products/userful-multiseat-linux
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| 06:13 | <alkisg> !socat
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| 06:13 | <ltsp> socat: One way to share a console with a remote person is: [local pc] forward port 5500, run: socat tcp-listen:5500,keepalive=1 stdio,raw,echo=0 [remote pc] socat tcp:server:5500 SYSTEM:"{ sleep 1; xterm -e screen -xRR ra$$; } & exec screen -S ra$$",pty,stderr
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| 07:22 | <alkisg> !nbd-client
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| 07:22 | <ltsp> nbd-client: To try mounting the NBD image from the client initramfs: nbd-client 192.168.67.1 -N /opt/ltsp/i386 /dev/nbd0
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| 08:21 | <fossala> Is there a way of changing volume on ltsp thin clients without using the gnome/xfce volume controls?
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| 08:21 | I'm using a window manager that doesn't provide that (i3).
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| 08:24 | <ogra_> pavucontrol might help
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| 08:27 | <fossala> Worked, thanks.
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| 11:00 | <ltspuser_66> hello
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| 14:09 | <roasted> hello!
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| 14:10 | <xJustTheTip> hi everyone
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| 14:11 | <xJustTheTip> has anyone been successful getting ltsp running on raspberry pi? NOT berryterminal
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| 14:13 | <roasted> xJustTheTip: I haven't tried that.
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| 14:13 | In fact I have two rasp pi's I have yet to unbox.
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| 14:14 | Between a wedding in 3 weeks and a blasted home renovation my tinker time has been approx nothing.
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| 14:14 | <xJustTheTip> we're wanting to use them as thin clients to just run RDP to connect to a windows terminal server
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| 14:14 | <roasted> Anybody out there running XFCE on their LTSP terminals? I'm having trouble digging up info on how to switch it over... like, what EXACT syntax to use in the lts.conf
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| 14:14 | <xJustTheTip> I have it working for i386, I just was curious if anyone has done it for ARM
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| 14:24 | <TedHughes1> Hi I am using LTSP on ubuntu 12.04 through Zentyal and if I look at the logs ltsp-build-client updates all the kernels and tftboot dirs for all images even though I specify --arch
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| 14:25 | I think its an LTSP script more than zentyal is this correct ?
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| 18:45 | <ltspuser_44> I can't seem to be able to find a list of thin clients supported by LTSP ? Is there one ?
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| 18:47 | <vagrantc> not really
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| 18:47 | any x86 based processor that can PXE boot should be reasonably well supported if it has enough ram
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| 18:48 | at least 128MB, though 256MB+ would be better.
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| 18:49 | <||cw> ltspuser_44: generally for x86 pc's. embedded thin clients don't need ltsp support, just linux
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| 18:50 | <ltspuser_44> HP has a long list of hardware, some named thin clients, some named "smart zero clients" and some named "zero clients". They all PXE and the all have decent memory. Do all of them work with LTSP?
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| 18:51 | <||cw> it's not that simple.
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| 18:52 | <vagrantc> a lot of the HP thin clients could in theory work with LTSP, but come with their own OS on flash that replicates some of the functionality of LTSP ...
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| 18:52 | <||cw> ltps is basically just a way to maintain an x86 or xmd64 chroot for the client systems to boot on, and some scripts to wrap it all up and make it easy to manage
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| 18:52 | anything x86 based will work.
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| 18:52 | <vagrantc> if you can get it to boot to something other than the built-in OS
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| 18:53 | <||cw> anything arm based can be made to work, but will take some extra work outside of normal ltsp operation
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| 18:53 | is it technically possible/feasible to have an arm chroot?
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| 18:54 | or even just a build arm image, made using qemu or something, that can be nbd'd to an arm system?
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| 18:55 | <vagrantc> yes
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| 18:55 | <ltspuser_44> So LTSP works with PC's only ? Not with ready-sold thin clients ?
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| 18:55 | <vagrantc> at least on debian, installing qemu-user-static and binfmt-support makes arm work out of the box
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| 18:56 | ltspuser_44: it works with thin clients, but it depends on how the manufacturer made the thin client
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| 18:56 | ltspuser_44: there's no exact specification on what "thin client" is.
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| 18:56 | <||cw> been playing with arm stuff recently, but not thin clients, nas's
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| 18:58 | <vagrantc> i've gotten the arm baased HP t5325 to work as an LTSP client with some hackery
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| 18:58 | and to a lesser extent, the genesi efikamx smarttop
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| 18:59 | but i wouldn't recommend using an arm-based thin-client for your first LTSP setup. :)
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| 18:59 | <||cw> butting my head with one issue, mounted the nas's ext3 rootfs on my desktop, and even if i change nothing, the nas won't boot it again.
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| 18:59 | think I'm going to have to break down and solder on the serial pads to get a console there
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| 19:05 | <ltspuser_44> So it is mostly for PC's then ?
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| 19:08 | <vagrantc> ltspuser_44: you can use any computer that supports network booting.
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| 19:08 | ltspuser_44: it would be easiest if you used x86 based thin clients, since those are best tested.
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| 19:09 | <ltspuser_44> Can you give me the name of one ? I have not bought any yet.
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| 19:09 | <vagrantc> ltspuser_44: but the term "thin client" doesn't necessarily mean much, so weather or not somethinng is marketed as a thin client will work with LTSP... it not immediately obvious
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| 19:09 | ltspuser_44: disklessworkstations.com
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| 19:10 | <ltspuser_44> Yup ... but those are very expensive! $250 each. The ones from HP cost only $20 on eBay!
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| 19:10 | <vagrantc> most thin clients will probably work, but it may require changing the default boot devices ... which may very greatly in how difficult it is.
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| 19:11 | if they're so cheap, buy one and try it out?
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| 19:11 | also, i'd recommend avoiding the ebox2300 models- they don't work well with modern versions of LTSP
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| 19:11 | which are marketed under a few different names
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| 19:12 | <||cw> I've had some luck using these http://www.wdlsystems.com/modperl/view_services.cgi?r=detail&prod_num=1EB3MXM&aisle_id=1313
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| 19:12 | <||cw> you have to build your own kernel for them though since distros don't seem to be including the nic drivers by default
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| 19:12 | maybe just compiling the nic driver and rebuilding initrd would work
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| 19:13 | <vagrantc> that sounds like a lot of hassle
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| 19:13 | <||cw> they arne't particularly fast though, the via 500Mhz ones I have feel faster
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| 19:14 | but they're $100 more
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| 19:15 | vagrantc: yeah. I haven't deployed them as pxe boots because of it.
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| 19:15 | <vagrantc> the ebox-3300 series isn't too bad
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| 19:15 | <||cw> I only have 2, one's running XP, the other is linux installed to CF card and using usb wifi
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| 19:15 | that's the first one, or I copy the wrong link?
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| 19:16 | yeah, 330
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| 19:16 | 4500 is the via based one
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| 19:17 | vagrantc: do you know what distros have the 3300's nic driver by default?
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| 19:18 | I've found ubuntu is a no go on them from 12.04+, they've dropped 586 support
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| 19:19 | <vagrantc> ||cw: worked with debian
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| 19:20 | <||cw> stable or testing?
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| 19:20 | <vagrantc> either, as of a few months ago
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| 19:21 | <||cw> noted, will have to try it sometime.
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| 19:21 | <||cw> ubuntu's turning into a bitch to use with ltsp unless you're on proper 686+
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| 19:22 | <vagrantc> so i hear
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| 19:23 | were they even dropping support for non-pae 686?
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| 19:23 | <||cw> it's not pae that's the issue
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| 19:23 | the 3300's are 586, not 686, and that's the issue
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| 19:24 | * alkisg1 is thinking more every day about packaging a debian or even altlinux very thin chroot... | |
| 19:25 | <alkisg1> sudo apt-get install really-thin-client-that-support-586-and-32-mb-ram :P
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| 19:25 | <||cw> I don't recall if the VIA Eden;s are 686 or not, having tried 12.04 on one yet
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| 19:26 | <||cw> I'd settle with a ppa with such a kernel that meets the with linux-image req
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| 19:27 | or some similar req to get patches and dist-upgrades
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| 19:27 | and then you'd be my hero
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| 19:29 | <vagrantc> it's not just the kernel anymore
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| 19:29 | the whole OS is built without support
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| 19:29 | <vagrantc> alkisg1: we talked about auto-building such a chroot in the past...
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| 19:30 | <||cw> :(
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| 19:30 | <alkisg1> True, and since I'm getting more and more problems with non-pae and non-686 clients... I'm starting to think about it more :)
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| 19:31 | <vagrantc> i should just go ahead and set up such a thing...
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| 19:31 | i've got a spare server sitting on the intertubes not doing much
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| 19:31 | * vagrantc was just about to explore backporting wheezy's ltsp packages to squeeze | |
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| 21:03 | <vagrantc> [TiZ]: you may need to specify a .desktop file instead of a path to a binary ...
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| 21:04 | end-users and upstream LTSP has been mangling how LDM_SESSION works for the past couple years, so it's hard to know what the right thing to do is for any arbitrary version
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| 21:04 | <[TiZ]> Possibly. I do have a working image now, so I'll try muppis's instructions to see if the file's being accessed.
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| 21:04 | Like... to make sure the /var lts.conf is even being loaded.
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| 21:05 | <vagrantc> right
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| 21:05 | simplest way is to put SCREEN_07=shell in there, and it should drop you to a shell instead of loading up a graphical session
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| 21:06 | in the lts.conf from tftp
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| 21:07 | <muppis> Yes, more simplier than what I suggested.
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| 21:07 | <[TiZ]> Alright, well, let's give that a try.
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| 21:08 | <muppis> But you still remove lts.conf from chroot to make sure.
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| 21:08 | +need
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| 21:08 | <[TiZ]> Man, I should have just made a complete barebones fat client image instead of letting it stuff all of unity into the stupid thing... I'm only 1/4 of the way done.
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| 21:09 | <vagrantc> no need to remove it from the chroot ... if it doesn't drop you to a shell, you know it isn't working...
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| 21:09 | <[TiZ]> No shell. Unity.
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| 21:09 | <muppis> vagrantc, but which one overrules the other one?
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| 21:10 | <vagrantc> the tftp file should replace the one in the chroot on boot... so if it's not respecting the one from tftp, it's not working correctly.
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| 21:10 | so your problem is with the tftp transfer.
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| 21:10 | or at least, near it
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| 21:10 | <[TiZ]> Okay... so what are my next steps?
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| 21:12 | <vagrantc> i'd edit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default and add a break=init line to the boot options
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| 21:12 | you probably will also need to disable the splash screen ... no idea how to do that these days ...
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| 21:14 | <muppis> From same file, remove words quiet and splash
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| 21:14 | <vagrantc> oh, the tftp fetching might be from usr/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d ...
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| 21:18 | <muppis> Hmm?
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| 21:18 | <[TiZ]> Well, break=init took me to a shell... what should I do from there?
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| 21:19 | <vagrantc> i'm not sure where the tftp fetch is on 12.04 ...
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| 21:19 | * vagrantc develops on debian | |
| 21:19 | <vagrantc> look in /root/etc/lts.conf
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| 21:25 | ltsp has joined IRC (ltsp!bot@ltsp.org) | |
| 21:25 | <vagrantc> or at least, it should be.
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| 21:25 | <[TiZ]> I see. When I boot, $filename is just "pxelinux.0".
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| 21:26 | It doesn't have any kind of path like the lts.conf fetching script says it does.
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| 21:27 | <||cw> if your tftp server config has a base path set, then $filename should not have a path, or should have a path relative to the base dir
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| 21:28 | pxelinux.0 is normally in the root of the tftp
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| 21:28 | <muppis> Even this gets interesting I still need catch some sleep. Nights.
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| 21:28 | <vagrantc> in a typical ltsp setup, it should be /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
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| 21:29 | <[TiZ]> And I'm assuming s/i386/amd64 on 64-bit.
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| 21:29 | * vagrantc has always thought the way it fetches the lts.conf from tftp was messed up | |
| 21:29 | <vagrantc> sure
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| 21:29 | <[TiZ]> Well... I'm just gonna edit the script and make it do what I want. And then rebuild. *again.*
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| 21:32 | <||cw> if you're using tftpd-hpa, the base is defined in /etc/default/tftpd-hpa
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| 21:33 | <[TiZ]> Hmm... my boss was the one who actually set up the LTSP server, and delegated the session set up to me. And he appears to have changed TFTP_DIRECTORY to /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64.
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| 21:33 | Somehow I get the sense that it's not supposed to be that.
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| 21:34 | <||cw> so if the default base is /var/lib/tftpboot/, your DHCP server will need to send ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0 or ltsp/amd64/pxelinux.0 as the filename
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| 21:34 | <vagrantc> no
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| 21:34 | <||cw> ah, so then your "pxelinux.0" is correct
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| 21:34 | <[TiZ]> Ah ha! I know why he changed it.
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| 21:34 | <vagrantc> there's no good reason to do it that way, though.
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| 21:34 | <||cw> well, setting the base like that means you can only boot x64 clients
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| 21:35 | <[TiZ]> There's another PXE server set up here, and its boot path is simply pxelinux.0 as well.
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| 21:35 | <||cw> same here, but you can still make it work
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| 21:36 | basically, you copy the kernels to the other tftp server and set configs for the clients there
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| 21:36 | that's the easiest
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| 21:37 | after a kernel update, copy /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp to the root of the other tftp
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| 21:38 | everything else works the same, keeping the ltsp/arch/* filenames
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| 21:39 | <[TiZ]> If I can avoid having to derp around with the included scripts, that's better than hacking things around just to suit my boss's incorrect configuration.
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| 21:39 | <||cw> you'll need add nbdroot=x.x.x.x:2000 to the kenrl append line though
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| 21:40 | <[TiZ]> Ah, I have a shell. So that did it, then. I had to reconfigure the tftp server and dhcp server.
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| 21:54 | And now I have to figure out how to make it start the user x session...
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| 21:55 | <vagrantc> you can't isolate these onto their own network?
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| 21:55 | <[TiZ]> What?
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| 21:55 | <vagrantc> it seems like a bad idea to have multiple PXE servers on a single network ... if you could set up a separate network for the LTSP clients, you could avoid a lot of headache
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| 21:56 | if that's a feasible option
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| 21:56 | the recommended LTSP server setup involves a server with two network cards- one for internet access, and another for the LTSP network
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| 21:57 | but it requires an isolated network dedicated to LTSP
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| 21:57 | <[TiZ]> I don't know much about the network infrastructure here... but there is a default boot server hostname and bootfile name configured, and then for the LTSP clients, those get overridden.
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| 21:57 | It doesn't seem like particularly much headache to have reconfigured it.
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| 21:58 | <vagrantc> the existing network boot setup isn't actually in use?
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| 21:58 | <[TiZ]> It's more headache trying to get this X session crap working. All I want LDM to run is ~/.xsession.
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| 21:59 | In this building, by default, network boot takes you to a server where you can access miscellaneous tools like ghostcast.
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| 22:00 | <vagrantc> it should run ~/.xsession by default...
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| 22:00 | unless you try to set LDM_SESSION
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| 22:00 | or ubuntu's done something messed up with default session handling.
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| 22:00 | <[TiZ]> I think they have done something messed up with default session handling.
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| 22:04 | I don't normally have any particular hate for Unity.
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| 22:05 | But now I completely detest it because I can't make it go the hell away!!!
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| 22:07 | <vagrantc> alkisg: hrm. the versioned dependencies on newer nbd are makking ltsp hard to backport :(
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| 22:07 | alkisg: nbd was fairly easy to backport a few versions ago, but no longer.
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| 22:07 | <[TiZ]> Well... thank you all for the help with the lts.conf. I have to go do other stuff now. Take care.
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| 22:08 | <vagrantc> good luck
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| 22:08 | <[TiZ]> Thanks.
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| 23:54 | <ecolinux> hello
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| 23:56 | i try to make a package ltsp-archlinux for archlinux but docs is not really .....
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| 23:56 | ;)
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