IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 4 August 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:40 | <AndyGraybeal> hah, i forgot i was chroot'd from yesterday, and i did like cat /etc/fstab .. my heart sank.. took me about 3 minutes to realize i was in chroot.
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| 06:40 | i about had a heart attack
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| 07:51 | <AndyGraybeal> alkisg: thank you for your help with Adding Modules.
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| 07:51 | <alkisg> AndyGraybeal: np, did it work?
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| 07:52 | <AndyGraybeal> i'm doing it now, i'm sure it will work though.
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| 07:52 | i'm stil reading the page, and being patient.
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| 07:53 | <alkisg> :)
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| 08:00 | <AndyGraybeal> wow, worked like a charm
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| 08:00 | :)
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| 09:03 | <AndyGraybeal> omg this is awesome, ltsp is so amzing. i really like the splash screen for the ubuntu ldm.
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| 09:04 | everything just works. it all seems like wizardry to me.
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| 09:08 | <highvoltage> AndyGraybeal: :)
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| 09:13 | <Blinny> AndyGraybeal: Yes, yes and yes.
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| 09:22 | <AndyGraybeal> :)
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| 09:22 | gdm splash pails in comparison
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| 09:23 | login screen i guess
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| 09:27 | <alkisg> Yeah I'm going to be very sorry when/if that ldmgtkgreeter background is changed in ubuntu...
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| 09:28 | <AndyGraybeal> :)
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| 09:28 | does cairo-dock work with ltsp?
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| 09:34 | <highvoltage> AndyGraybeal: probably, not much reason why it shouldn't
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| 09:43 | <Blinny> Where should I file the nbdswapd bug that leaves processes and /tmp files hanging around?
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| 09:44 | Basically a duplicate/re-occurrance of this bug from 2007 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/113821
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| 09:48 | <AndyGraybeal> thank you highvoltage
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| 09:49 | <highvoltage> Blinny: it seems like a regression, if it was me I'd probably file a new bug for that
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| 09:56 | <AndyGraybeal> forget cairo-dock.. seems like extra complication
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| 09:56 | <highvoltage> docky is quite nice imho
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| 09:57 | <AndyGraybeal> docky is such a cute name :)
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| 09:58 | i'm goin gto install it now to test on my lapotp
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| 09:58 | i've been using cairo-dock on my laptop
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| 09:59 | i like docky too!
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| 09:59 | it's very pretty
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| 10:00 | <alkisg> Blinny: do you have that keepalive line? are you starting nbd-server with inetd?
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| 10:09 | <Blinny> alkisg: I'm plain-jane vanilla. So, yes and I think yes.
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| 10:10 | <alkisg> Blinny: if so, then it would be a tcpd bug?!
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| 10:10 | <Blinny> alkisg: This is just recent behavior. nbdswapd: ALL: keepalive is in /etc/hosts.allow and I'm using inetd
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| 10:11 | Well it depends on who's not killing the process. If it's nbdswapd not noticing that the IP isn't connected anymore, or if it's inetd not doing the same
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| 10:11 | <alkisg> nbdswapd reads from stdin, it doesn't know about any ip addresses (the way we start it)
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| 10:11 | <Blinny> Oh!
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| 10:12 | <alkisg> So it should be a fault of inetd/tcpd...
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| 10:12 | Which are the minimal steps to reproduce? Just enable NBD_SWAP?
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| 10:12 | <Blinny> I'd say fully update then enable NBD_SWAP
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| 10:13 | Because this just started w/ recent updates awhile ago.
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| 10:13 | * alkisg tries to reproduce it... | |
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| 10:15 | <Blinny> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=4C59634E.4090402%40ajrs.com also reports the issue
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| 10:15 | He's on 10.04
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| 10:19 | <alkisg> OK, now let's see if those processes will be closed after 2 hours and if the files will be deleted.
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| 10:20 | (I think there's an option to lower that 2 hours limit so that we can debug it more easily... but anyway)
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| 10:38 | <alkisg> Blinny: if you run e.g. `aptitude changelog tcpd` (and also for openbsd-inetd and nbd-server), which of those packages have been recently changed?
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| 10:39 | (for my Lucid, only tcpd)
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| 10:44 | <Blinny> Hrm. The comments for tcpd and openbsd-inetd look like they haven't changed since 2007. nbd-server in 2008
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| 10:44 | <alkisg> So I wonder what update caused the problem...
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| 10:45 | <Blinny> What do the Lucid tcpd comments say? Perhaps they point to an originating package necessitating a change
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| 10:46 | <alkisg> http://pastebin.com/jaLXzXs1
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| 10:49 | <Blinny> I still lean toward a kernel change because that's the only thing of consequence that I've updated in the last two months. And this problem just reared its head in the last two/three weeks.
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| 10:49 | I have my aptitude log from Fri Jul 9th
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| 10:50 | libnspr4 libnss apturl sudo firefox totem rhythmbox
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| 10:50 | and the kernel
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| 10:50 | <alkisg> I think one good way to test would be to (1) find that 2 hour limit and lower it to 2 minutes, and (2) try with an older kernel to see if it the problem persists
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| 10:51 | (that limit was mentioned in some man page, but I don't remember which one... tcpd? inetd? not sure)
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| 10:51 | <Blinny> I'm going to try with the older kernel - will need to wait on a server reboot until late tonight
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| 10:53 | <Blinny> Can I remove the currently-running kernel package and run the rest of the day without complications?
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| 10:54 | Maybe I should just install -1 version then update menu.lst to boot the older kernel the next reboot
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| 10:54 | <alkisg> Why remove? You can have as many kernels as you want
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| 10:55 | menu.lst should be updated automatically, so you just need to select the older kernel from the grub menu
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| 10:55 | <Blinny> yeah but I'll be rebooting via at around 3AM
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| 10:56 | OK pulling the kernel and modules packages now
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| 11:05 | OK. I'll let you know tomorrow AM what is fixed and what isn't.
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| 11:05 | I'm fighting pneumonia - going to bed g'night, thanks alkisg
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| 11:05 | <alkisg> Goodnight, I hope you get better
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| 12:37 | <Kyle__> If I'm not going to use the i386 image/share, it's safe to remove /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img and /opt/ltsp/i386, correct?
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| 12:46 | <alkisg> You mean to remove ltsp? Sure, you can remove /opt/ltsp/ then.
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| 12:58 | <alkisg> For Blinny - after 2 hours both the nbd processes and the tmp files were gone for me
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| 12:59 | So it's probably something in his configuration
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| 13:04 | !later tell Blinny "After two hours my nbd processes and the temp files were removed, so I don't think the problem is related to LTSP..."
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| 13:04 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: Error: "later" is not a valid command.
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| 13:04 | <alkisg> Bah, ok, memoserv it is then
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| 13:38 | <Kyle__> alkisg: Actually I was just removing the 386 stuff. The clients are all 64bit. But anyway I cleaned it out :)
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| 13:38 | <alkisg> OK, remember to update your tftpdir, inetd, dhcpd.conf etc too
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| 13:39 | <Kyle__> alkisg: This is my first setup, I haven't even gotten to those parts yet.
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| 13:39 | <alkisg> /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 <== delete that too
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| 13:40 | ...and, /etc/inetd.conf and /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf <== check if they mention amd64, not i386
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| 13:44 | <Natanaiel> may I process a specific program in a client that uses LTSP?
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| 13:46 | <johnny> what does that mean?
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| 13:47 | can you rephrase your question?
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| 13:48 | <Natanaiel> johnny: i mean after booting OS, when I want to process sth it instead of request it from server & doing it in server that process does in client
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| 13:49 | <johnny> you mean you want to run an application from the client itself?
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| 13:49 | <Natanaiel> johnny: yes
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| 13:49 | <johnny> !localapps
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| 13:49 | <Kyle__> Is the stgrabber PPA still needed for fat clients if you're using 10.04?
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| 13:49 | <ltspbot`> johnny: "localapps" :: to access a tutorial on setting up localapps on jaunty, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPLocalAppsJaunty
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| 13:50 | <johnny> alkisg, those instructions are still valid for lucid and karmic?
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| 13:50 | <alkisg> There's a better page for karmic
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| 13:50 | http://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSPKarmicLocalAppsFirefox
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| 13:50 | That's valid for lucid too
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| 13:51 | (still not perfect, but better than the jaunty page)
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| 13:51 | Kyle__: no it isn't
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| 13:51 | <Kyle__> Thanks.
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| 13:52 | <alkisg> !fatclients
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| 13:52 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "fatclients" :: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 13:52 | <alkisg> Kyle__: ^^^
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| 13:52 | <Kyle__> I'm reading that page now :) Just covering my bases, cause you know, docs aren't always up to date.
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| 13:53 | <Natanaiel> alkisg: it's only for some apps, can't I use my own local app?
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| 13:53 | <alkisg> Natanaiel: sure you can
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| 13:53 | It's an example for firefox
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| 13:54 | Natanaiel: just beware - not all apps are easy to use locally. Which one are you planning to use?
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| 13:55 | <Natanaiel> alkisg: I wrote a program
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| 13:55 | I want to run it as local app
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| 13:55 | <alkisg> Natanaiel: I mean, if it uses gconf or dbus etc you may get some problems
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| 13:56 | <johnny> why not update the local apps page then alkisg ?
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| 13:56 | <Natanaiel> alkisg: aha, ok, instead of install it from apt I should compile it in client?
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| 13:56 | <alkisg> johnny: feel free to do so :)
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| 13:57 | <johnny> i don't remember how
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| 13:57 | <alkisg> Natanaiel: you can use apt too...
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| 13:57 | <Natanaiel> alkisg: how can I use apt for my own program?
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| 13:57 | <johnny> Natanaiel, best to compile it and copy it to the client
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| 13:57 | than compile it on the client, so you don't need to install every build tool
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| 13:57 | <alkisg> johnny: just visit a page, e.g. http://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LucidLocalApps, and write...
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| 13:57 | <johnny> as long as the server archiecture
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| 13:57 | matches
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| 13:58 | <alkisg> Natanaiel: you need to package it to use apt - if you don't know what that means just compile it locally :)
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| 14:08 | <Natanaiel> ok, tnx alkisg & johnny
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| 14:14 | <Kyle__> alkisg: Umm. So in the situation where you're running a different arch on the server than what will run on the client... how do you succed building the client?
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| 14:14 | alkisg: It's failing on the chroot mount of proc, which isn't surprising, because it's a 32bit server, and setting up a 64bit client.
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| 14:15 | <alkisg> You need to build that on a 64bit client, and then transfer it.
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| 14:15 | *on a 64bit computer
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| 14:16 | <Kyle__> Ah. So install the ltsp packages on a 64bit box, copy over my ltsp-build-client.conf, build the client, copy it back. Anything else I need to do on the 64bit box?
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| 14:19 | <alkisg> No, but keep in mind that you'll need that client every time you want to update the chroot
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| 14:19 | Why don't you use a 32bit chroot? It's much simpler this way
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| 14:19 | * Kyle__ ponders. | |
| 14:20 | <Kyle__> alkisg: If I log in and sudo, can't I just update from a client?
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| 14:20 | <alkisg> No. You'd need to export the tree with nfs rw (or something similar)
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| 14:20 | <Kyle__> Ah.
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| 14:21 | Well, I suppose I could just do the 32bit for now. I've only got 2GB in each client, and even if I get the budget to upgrade, I can't push them past 4GB...
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| 14:22 | <alkisg> Even if you push them past 4gb, you can just use the -pae kernel with 32bit os
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| 14:22 | -pae kernels support up to 64GB
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| 14:23 | <sweetpi> ltsp clent with 64GB ram... hehe
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| 14:23 | <Kyle__> alkisg: Yea, but no process can use more than 3 on a PAE kernel (IIRC), which wouldn't help me :)
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| 14:23 | no individual process that is.
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| 14:23 | <alkisg> Heh, ok, if you need processes with more than 3 GB RAM each, this is some really weird setup :)
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| 14:24 | (maybe you should use a client as the ltsp server in this case :))
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| 14:24 | <Kyle__> alkisg: This is an extremely weird setup. I'll try and post a writeup about it when I'm done.
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| 14:25 | * Kyle__ grumbles. | |
| 14:25 | <Kyle__> What idiot puts motion-sensor-lights in a computer lab, and only points the sensors at the door?
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| 14:26 | <sweetpi> is cause they
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| 14:26 | <johnny> so if you're stting around the lights just go off? :)
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| 14:26 | <sweetpi> oops wrong channel
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| 14:36 | <AndyGraybeal> hey guys, it looks like gnome-panel is eating up 100%'s of my cpu.. does this happen?
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| 14:37 | <Kyle__> Yea, if I don't walk around every 10 minutes or so.
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| 14:37 | * Kyle__ sighs. | |
| 14:40 | <johnny> Kyle__, perhaps you should buy a little device that moves up and down on a timer
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| 14:40 | and put it in fronot of it
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| 14:40 | <Kyle__> Ir sensors, or somesuch. I threw an eraser at it earlier, it didn't work.
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| 15:10 | <denisesball> hey does anyone have "SHUTDOWN_TIME string, format hh:mm:ss in 24 hour format, default unset" actually working? is this an implemented feature?
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| 15:10 | doesnt seem to do anything for me
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| 15:14 | <alkisg> distro/version?
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| 15:15 | <denisesball> oh hey alkisg u joined right after i looked for you cuz i remember you mentioning it
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| 15:15 | im ubuntu 10.04
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| 15:16 | ltsp 5.2.1
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| 15:17 | i had "SHUTDOWN_TIME=15:48:00" in my /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf while the term was logged in. is it maybe for logged out terms only?
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| 15:17 | (this was about a hlaf hour ago)
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| 15:17 | <alkisg> Check your /etc/cron.d/ltsp on the client
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| 15:17 | !localxterm
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| 15:17 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "localxterm" :: while sitting on a thin client, open a gnome terminal. In that, run: ltsp-localapps xterm. An xterm will open. That xterm runs locally, so any commands you enter there are executed directly on the client.
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| 15:17 | <Kyle__> Arrgh. If ltsp-build-client fails, do you have to clear it out and start over?
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| 15:18 | <alkisg> Kyle__: depending on the failure, usually yes. `ltsp-build-client --mount-package-cache` keeps a cache of the packages to make 2nd downloading faster.
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| 15:20 | <denisesball> alkisg: i see the cron there, but the date from the local xterm does not match the terminal so that must be it. any idea why?
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| 15:20 | <Kyle__> OK. Now to figure out why it didn't see the package I wanted.
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| 15:20 | <alkisg> denisesball: timezone? time server?
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| 15:20 | Kyle__: you can add the packages later on manually
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| 15:21 | If getting a package fails, leave it for after the initial chroot building
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| 15:21 | <Kyle__> Oh. Probably easier.
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| 15:21 | <denisesball> alkisg: i didn't know those were mandatory, i thought they would default to the server's
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| 15:21 | <alkisg> I don't think they're mandatory
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| 15:21 | I'm just saying you might have a different timezone on your chroot than on your server
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| 15:21 | Or, a wrong time on the client
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| 15:21 | * Kyle__ runs it again without the acroread package. | |
| 15:22 | <alkisg> denisesball: or, a wrong utc setting.
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| 15:22 | <denisesball> alkisg: i dont have those set at all. here you can see the different times from date on the term and the actual server - http://pastebin.com/2tHd3xbZ
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| 15:23 | <Kyle__> alkisg: the --mount-package-cache has to be done before the failure, hu? Not afterwards, to recover?
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| 15:23 | <alkisg> denisesball: ubuntu does not set your client clock by default
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| 15:23 | denisesball: so, it just has a wrong time on the bios
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| 15:24 | <denisesball> ahhhhhh, wrong time on the actual terminal BIOS? that is entirely possible
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| 15:24 | <alkisg> denisesball: to ensure that all clients have a consistent time, use a time server
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| 15:24 | <alkisg> Kyle__: yup
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| 15:24 | <Kyle__> Heh :) allrighty.
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| 15:28 | <denisesball> alkisg: what are the possible strings for TIMEZONE? doesnt say in the manual
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| 15:28 | EDT works?
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| 15:30 | just says "string"
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| 15:37 | <alkisg> denisesball: Europe/Athens
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| 15:38 | <denisesball> how about for america eastern standard?
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| 15:44 | nvm i think i got it
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| 15:44 | <alkisg> ls /usr/share/zoneinfo
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| 15:46 | <denisesball> just gonna use the termserver itself and an ntp server since its the only server the terminal can actually talk to
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| 15:47 | as usual, you are very helpful alkisg. thanks@
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| 15:47 | <alkisg> np
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| 15:50 | <denisesball> unfortunately the term still didnt shutdown - http://pastebin.com/v7evRsa9
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| 15:50 | let me try running that command then
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| 16:30 | <Kyle__> If it complains about not being able to unmount proc (busy), durring the ltsp-build-client step, that's OK, right?
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| 16:33 | <alkisg> Kyle__: can you run `sudo cat /opt/ltsp/i386/proc/mounts` from another terminal?
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| 16:33 | !pastebot
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| 16:33 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "pastebot" :: The LTSP pastebot is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 16:34 | <Kyle__> Yea.
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| 16:34 | http://ltsp.pastebin.com/SpsdURi3
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| 16:35 | <alkisg> Kyle__: ok, run: sudo umount /opt/ltsp/i386/proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc
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| 16:35 | It's a bug that has been solved in trunk but the fix is not yet released
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| 16:35 | <Kyle__> alkisg: But it didn't screw anything up with the creationg right?
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| 16:35 | <alkisg> No, don't worry
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| 16:35 | <Kyle__> err creation of the image rather.
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| 16:35 | Good :)
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| 16:36 | Cleaning up after it isn't a problem for me. I was just hoping I wouldn't have to wait through that again!
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| 16:36 | <alkisg> Yeah building a fat client takes a loooooong time :)
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| 16:37 | <Kyle__> I nievely thought it would take the same amount of time!
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| 16:37 | naively. Damnit, I've gotten too used to spellchecking in firefox. I'm dying without it.
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| 16:37 | <alkisg> It's like installing a normal pc from the network
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| 16:52 | <Kyle__> Errr. Stupid question... When you install the ubuntu-ltsp server, does it not include the usual apt sources? It's claming that there isn't a nfs-kernel-server package.
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| 16:54 | <johnny> you don't need one..
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| 16:54 | nfs i mean
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| 16:55 | <Kyle__> johnny: don't need an NFS server? The docs I'm reading refer to having one for /home.
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| 16:55 | (fat clients).
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| 16:55 | Admittedly I'm going to alter the hell out of the setup, including that part, but I still want to start out a standardish way :)
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| 16:56 | <johnny> oh, for fat clients
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| 16:56 | it could have been that they renamed it
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| 16:56 | but it uses the standard ones
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| 18:23 | <alkisg> !reset-panels
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| 18:23 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "reset-panels" :: to reset gnome panels to their initial state, losing any customizations you may have made: gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/panel && killall gnome-panel
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| 20:17 | <gnoob> Hi guys, How do I change what nick ltsp works on? I need to switch around NICs.. :\
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| 20:23 | <alkisg> gnoob: first thing to check is if you have a dhcp server around
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| 20:24 | Usually, eth0 is connected to the internet (via a router or something), and eth1 to the thin clients. A dhcp server is active on eth1, offering IP addresses on the clients
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| 20:25 | <alkisg> So, if you already have a dhcp server on eth0, and also start dhcp3-server on the ltsp-server, they'll get mixed up
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| 20:26 | <gnoob> ok :)
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| 20:27 | when ps -A |grep dhc only output I got is 1416 ? 00:00:00 dhclient :\
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| 20:28 | <alkisg> How are your PCs getting an IP address? From a router?
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| 20:30 | <gnoob> yeah, from wireless.. that part works well :) But want to set ltsp to use eth0 (had to use eth0 during installation and bridge connectiond on my other linuxbox to be able to install.. the installer didnt like my wireless) :)
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| 20:30 | <alkisg> OK, what I'm saying is that the router will conflict with your ltsp setup
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| 20:31 | Is your eth0 "in touch" with the router?
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| 20:31 | Or, in other words, can you describe your network setup in more detail?
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| 20:31 | <gnoob> yeah, but turned off routing now, so switch is all for eth0 on ltsp server :)
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| 20:32 | <alkisg> OK, try this command: sudo /usr/lib/klibc/bin/ipconfig -n eth0
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| 20:32 | What's the output?
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| 20:32 | <gnoob> its a mess, but problem is in configuration o f ltsp server I think :=) Ok thanks Ill try that
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| 20:34 | IP-Config: eth0 hardware adress 00:00:00:00:00:00 mtu 1500 DHCP RARP
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| 20:34 | and a blinking cursor
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| 20:35 | <alkisg> Nice. Next, you need a static ip on eth0
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| 20:35 | Can you configure a static ip?
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| 20:35 | <gnoob> sure
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| 20:35 | interfaces
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| 20:35 | already did that
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| 20:35 | 10.0.0.1
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| 20:35 | 255.255.255.128
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| 20:36 | <alkisg> Nice. Next, sudo gedit /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf, and change 192.168.0.x there to 10.0.0.1, and netmask etc
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| 20:36 | <gnoob> :)
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| 20:39 | ok did that :)
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| 20:40 | ahh its that simple? I just configure the dhcp and ltsp will use whatever nick with a static ip in that subnet?
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| 20:40 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 20:41 | Then, sudo invoke-rc.d dhcp3-server restart
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| 20:41 | <gnoob> I was looking for a configfile to change wlan0 to eth0 :D Thanks for great help alkisg
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| 20:41 | <alkisg> You're welcome
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| 20:42 | <gnoob> Starting DHCP server dhcpd3 [ OK ] :)
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| 20:43 | its soon 4 o clock in the night, but need to test the new marvel also :D
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| 20:44 | <alkisg> Where are you? Italy?
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| 20:46 | <gnoob> norway:)
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| 20:46 | <alkisg> Greece here :)
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| 20:47 | <gnoob> linux much used in greece?
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| 20:48 | <alkisg> Not very much, but we even got some ministry support for linux in schools etc
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| 20:48 | <gnoob> would love to go to greece one day.. seen pictures and must be one of the prettiest countris in the world
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| 20:49 | <alkisg> It's got some very nice places, but cities are just blocks of cement :-/
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| 20:49 | Beaches + mountains are cool though
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| 20:50 | <gnoob> thats good:) Im a school admin (still a linux noob i think though) and I really starting to love linux. Im seriously consiering tossing out a whole xp computerlab if I manage to get this up and working :)
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| 20:51 | <alkisg> You don't even need to touch your XP installation to use those as ltsp clients
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| 20:51 | That's actually how we're putting ltsp to schools here, first year as dual boot ltsp + xp, the next year they never boot xp anymore :D
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| 20:52 | <gnoob> truly awesome, have been thinking of the same thing actually :)
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| 20:53 | loooool its working!!!!
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| 20:53 | <alkisg> If they're good enough (>512 MB RAM), you can also try to boot them as fat clients. It works better for multimedia.
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| 20:53 | :)
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| 20:56 | <gnoob> nice nice nice! Tomorrow ill dig into user managing and if possible a from a ldap server :)
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| 20:57 | how do you manage users? a gui program? or cli based?
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| 20:57 | <alkisg> If it's just for a school labs, there's no need, the ltsp server user accounts are used
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| 20:57 | I'm managing them with the standard users-admin tool
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| 20:58 | (I only have 1 ltsp server per lab, so there's no need for ldap)
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| 21:00 | <gnoob> its just that we have got 3?? students and we happen to have a ldapserver in the county for all students@schools, but hmm I think I should learn how to manage the basics first probably :)
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| 21:01 | <alkisg> Ah sure then ldap is the way to go
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| 21:04 | <gnoob> Going to bed then I think.. Thanks a lot for great help alkisg :) Hopefully ill be able to help youwith something one day :p (Im sure that Ill hang around in edubuntu/ltsp channels in the future) LTSP is awesome and really a lot simpler than I could imagine!
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| 21:04 | <alkisg> Good night gnoob :)
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| 21:05 | <gnoob> bb and see you later :)
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