IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 21 April 2016 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:48 | <rac_> alkisg : Good morning, can help LTSP configuration PNP ?
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| 02:49 | I want to continue the previous configuration
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| 03:08 | <rac_> help ?
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| 03:35 | <rac_> Morning mr alkisg, can you help me?
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| 03:41 | <rac_> else anyone can help ?
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| 03:41 | ltsp-pnp
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| 04:58 | <alkisg> rac_: what is the issue?
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| 05:51 | <rac_> I've LTSP-PNP configuration, but did not get the ltsp client ip address dhcp server, in tutorial
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| 05:51 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp#Installation
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| 05:52 | <rac_> auto lo iface lo inet loopback auto enp3s0 iface enp3s0 inet static address 192.168.67.1 netmask 255.255.255.0 network 192.168.67.0 broadcast 192.168.67.255 auto enp4s0 iface enp4s0 inet static address 192.168.60.102 netmask 255.255.255.0 network 192.168.60.0 broadcast 192.168.60.255 gateway 192.168.60.1 dns-nameservers 192.168.60.1
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| 05:52 | <alkisg> Why do you have both 192.168.67 and 192.168.60?
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| 05:53 | <rac_> I have 2 network,
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| 05:54 | <alkisg> Why?
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| 05:54 | Obviously this is hard for you, why do you want to make it harder?
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| 05:54 | I propose that you use your router as a dhcp server, and have only one network card on your ltsp server
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| 05:55 | Like the ltsp-pnp page says
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| 05:55 | <rac_> 192.168.60 IP to connect to the internet and 192.168.67. for local network
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| 05:55 | <alkisg> Why don't you use only 192.168.60.x?
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| 05:55 | Both for the internet and the local network?
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| 06:01 | <rac_> so I had to change the ip address in the / etc / network / interfaces with only 1 IP
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| 06:01 | auto enp3s0 iface enp4s0 inet static address 192.168.60.102 netmask 255.255.255.0 network 192.168.60.0 broadcast 192.168.60.255 gateway 192.168.60.1 dns-nameservers 192.168.60.1
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| 06:02 | <alkisg> Is this server on a real pc, or a virtual machine?
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| 06:02 | <rac_> this server on a real pc
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| 06:03 | <alkisg> OK. So now the client still cannot boot?
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| 06:03 | What message does it show?
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| 06:04 | <rac_> client does not get dhcp ip address
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| 06:05 | <alkisg> OK, let me see
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| 06:05 | !vnc-dide
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| 06:05 | <ltsp`> vnc-dide: To share your screen with me, run this: sudo apt-get --yes install x11vnc; x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr - this is a reverse connection, it doesn't need port forwarding etc.
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| 06:05 | <alkisg> Do this on your ltsp server
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| 06:07 | <rac_> I do it in another computer
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| 06:07 | <rac_> how you can remote server i ?
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| 06:08 | <alkisg> Does the ltsp server have internet access?
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| 06:08 | Why can't you run that on the ltsp server?
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| 06:09 | <rac_> My server connected to the Internet
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| 06:10 | <alkisg> Then why don't you run that x11vnc command there?
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| 06:10 | <alkisg> x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr
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| 06:19 | <alkisg> rac_: boot a client
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| 06:19 | <rac_> ok will try
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| 06:20 | <alkisg> rac_: you don't have a dhcp server at 192.168.60.x ?
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| 06:22 | <rac_> ye i don't have dhcp server
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| 06:22 | <alkisg> LTSP clients need a DHCP server to boot.
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| 06:22 | Describe your network
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| 06:22 | Why don't you have a DHCP server?
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| 06:22 | You use static IPs in all of your PCs?
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| 06:22 | You don't have a router with an embedded dhcp server?
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| 06:24 | Did you disable your dhcp server on the router?
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| 06:25 | <rac_> no I don't use the router for the dhcp server
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| 06:25 | i want to use this server as dhcp server
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| 06:25 | <alkisg> OK, which IPs should it serve? Which IPs are free?
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| 06:26 | E.g. from 192.168.60.20 to .50?
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| 06:26 | <rac_> the server ip is 192.168.60.102
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| 06:26 | 192.168.60.180 to 192.168.60.190
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| 06:28 | <alkisg> OK, try to boot the client again
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| 06:28 | Note that you can only have 11 clients with that small range
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| 06:28 | <rac_> ok then
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| 06:29 | <alkisg> Create a new user
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| 06:29 | You can't use bunda to login both on your server and the client
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| 06:30 | E.g. `adduser ltsp` to create a user with the name of "ltsp"
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| 06:30 | <rac_> would you like to create user name rachmat..?
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| 06:30 | <alkisg> OK
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| 06:32 | All OK?
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| 06:33 | <rac_> one more thing if you don't mind
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| 06:33 | how to configure the printer on the ltsp client..?
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| 06:33 | <alkisg> Do you need the printer to be on the client, or can you plug it to the server instead?
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| 06:33 | <rac_> printer type is canon ip2770
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| 06:33 | <alkisg> If you plug it to the server, all the clients will see it automatically
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| 06:34 | <rac_> i want to configure the printer on the client, please
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| 06:36 | I don't have no idesa how to plug it to the server..
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| 06:39 | <alkisg> Just connect it to the server usb ports
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| 06:41 | <rac_> but how if i want to plug it on the ltsp client..?
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| 06:41 | <alkisg> You can plug it to the server and print from the client
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| 06:43 | <rac_> the problem is so many client at my place that will use the printer, even client from different room
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| 06:44 | so my plan is I'm going to put one ltsp client in the mid of the room, so any client will access it easily
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| 06:45 | if i put the printer on the server room, the room is too far for some client on the different room
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| 06:50 | <alkisg> OK, you can do that with the lts.conf PRINTER directive
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| 06:50 | !lts.conf
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| 06:50 | <ltsp`> lts.conf: (#1) http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf, or (#2) lts.conf manpage is available in the ltsp-docs package
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| 06:50 | <alkisg> But it's too much to ask for free remote support :)
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| 06:54 | <rac_> ok, thank you very much for the support....
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| 06:54 | would you like to tell me what's wrong with my previous setting before you fix it..?
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| 06:54 | <alkisg> You didn't do the `ltsp-config dnsmasq` step from the wiki page
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| 06:55 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp#Installation
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| 06:58 | <rac_> ok, many thanks for the support . . there 're still many things I should learn from the guidance
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| 06:59 | <alkisg> You're welcome
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| 09:45 | <susan> help!
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| 09:45 | who are knows about the history of the development of LTSP ?
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| 09:46 | <alkisg> susan: what exactly is your question?
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| 09:50 | <susan> Iam know founded in 1999 by DisklessWorkstations.com
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| 09:51 | <alkisg> Are you writing some kind of paper about it?
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| 10:19 | <ogra_> heh
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| 11:09 | <BuddyButterfly> hi
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| 11:09 | alkisg: hi agn. I would like openssh server on clients also to start automatically. is this also controllable via ltsp?
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| 11:10 | <BuddyButterfly> via lts.conf....
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| 12:09 | <alkisg> BuddyButterfly: openssh-server is unsafe because of the same keys on each client, why not use epoptes.org instead?
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| 12:09 | !epoptes
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| 12:09 | <ltsp`> epoptes: Epoptes is a computer lab administration and monitoring tool. It works on Ubuntu and Debian based labs with LTSP or non-LTSP servers, thin and fat clients, standalone workstations, NX clients etc. More info: http://www.epoptes.org
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| 12:50 | <BuddyButterfly> alkisg: hi, was afk, sry. ok, will have a look at it.
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| 14:43 | <laro> Hi everyone
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| 14:44 | alkisg: you helped me yesterday http://irclogs.ltsp.org/?u=laro&k=keyword
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| 14:44 | I have installed a VM with ubuntu MATE 16.04 as you told me
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| 14:44 | and I'm following your ltsp-pnp guide there
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| 14:45 | the VM has a bridged connection to my connected NIC
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| 14:46 | <laro> after doing the step of "ltsp installation", everything looked fine, but from that moment on that VM doesn't have internet connectivity
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| 14:46 | so for example I couldnt install epoptes, the next step
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| 14:48 | I guess is the DNS problem at the end of the page?
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| 14:49 | <alkisg> laro: can you ping 8.8.8.8 from the vm?
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| 14:49 | <laro> yes
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| 14:50 | but ping www.google.com is not working
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| 14:50 | dns right?
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| 14:50 | <alkisg> Did you reboot the vm before going on with the installation?
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| 14:50 | Because at that point, dnsmasq isn't restarted so it should still be working...
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| 14:50 | <laro> before? nope, it rebooted itself after installing the OS
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| 14:51 | I haven't rebooted since installing ltsp
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| 14:51 | <alkisg> So you started the installation steps, and then at that point you stopped having a working dns without reboot?
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| 14:51 | Hmmm
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| 14:51 | <laro> yes
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| 14:51 | <alkisg> OK, follow the paragraph from DNS issues, first method there
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| 14:51 | <laro> ok
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| 14:53 | <alkisg> Did they restore DNS to a working state?
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| 14:55 | <laro> I'm trying to follow that paragraph but get an error
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| 14:55 | after sed 's/^port=0/# Commented by ltsp-pnp: port=0/' -i /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf
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| 14:55 | <alkisg> What error?
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| 14:56 | <laro> sed: -e expression #1, character 41: `s' order unfinished
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| 14:56 | I'm translating from spanish but that's it
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| 14:56 | <alkisg> You probably mistyped something
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| 14:56 | Check it again
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| 14:56 | <laro> yes I think I spotted it
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| 14:58 | great, now dns are working again
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| 14:58 | Should I install epoptes and configure another VM to use as a thin client now?
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| 14:59 | <alkisg> Yup, follow all the other steps and then try to netboot a client, vm or real one, whatever you like
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| 14:59 | I'm not 100% sure that booting a vm client from a vm server with bridged networking works
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| 14:59 | (due to dhcp broadcasting not reaching the source nic)
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| 15:01 | <laro> In my school I have 12 thin clients, pentium 4 with 512mb ram
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| 15:01 | Can I use the ltsp-pnp method there? The server has 3 NICs
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| 15:02 | <alkisg> What is the server CPU and RAM?
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| 15:02 | <laro> i7-6700k 16GB
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| 15:02 | <alkisg> Oh, wow
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| 15:02 | <laro> Yes I wanted something fast ^
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| 15:02 | ^_^
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| 15:03 | and two SSDs samsung evo 850
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| 15:03 | <alkisg> You could just have bought 1 GB RAM for the clients :D
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| 15:03 | OK, what about your networking?
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| 15:03 | Do you have a gigabit switch with all ports gigabit?
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| 15:03 | And, do you remember, pentium 4 at how many GHz?
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| 15:04 | <laro> I have isolated the ltsp network (currently have TCOS setup there) from the rest of the school network so DHCP doesn't make conflict
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| 15:04 | TCOS is similar to ltsp... but I want to change to ltsp
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| 15:04 | <alkisg> OK, you didn't have to do that, but ok
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| 15:04 | <laro> and install this new server
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| 15:05 | So the server is going to be connected to "LTSP switch" and to school network through different NICs
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| 15:05 | If I can get this working, was planning in buying a gigabit managed switch for the computer lab
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| 15:06 | <alkisg> OK, 2 NICs bonded to the ltsp switch for twice the speed. Make sure you don't suffer from the flow-control issue.
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| 15:06 | <laro> and hopefully have bonding in the server with 2 NICs
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| 15:06 | <alkisg> !flow-control
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| 15:06 | <ltsp`> flow-control: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl
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| 15:06 | <laro> yes I read that, that's why I'm looking for managed, to disable flow control
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| 15:06 | <alkisg> It's not necessary
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| 15:06 | <laro> because buying a lot of gigabit PCIs is expensive
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| 15:07 | <alkisg> Our new code can disable flow control even in unmanaged switches
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| 15:07 | <laro> really?
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| 15:07 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 15:07 | So you can buy a 16port switch with 60 euros
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| 15:07 | <laro> So I can buy a dumb and cheap TP-link for example??
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| 15:07 | <alkisg> yup
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| 15:07 | <laro> you just saved my school money! haha
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| 15:08 | but it should support bonding though
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| 15:08 | <alkisg> They all do
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| 15:08 | Just not all bonding modes
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| 15:08 | (06:03:59 μμ) alkisg: And, do you remember, pentium 4 at how many GHz?
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| 15:08 | <laro> it's ok if only the cables going to the server are cat-6?
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| 15:08 | I think it's 2.4ghz
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| 15:09 | but not sure
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| 15:09 | not faster that I remember
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| 15:09 | 2 or 2.4
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| 15:09 | <alkisg> 2.4 is good enough for fat clients, so you could have bought an i3 server and 1 gb ram for the clients, and it would work better
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| 15:10 | Sometimes paying someone for advice is cheaper and more effective :)
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| 15:11 | <darkend> join
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| 15:11 | <laro> but fat clients performance isn't similar to installing ubuntu in every computer?
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| 15:11 | <alkisg> welcome :)
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| 15:11 | Yup, and that's usually better for p4 at 2.4 ghz than thin clients
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| 15:11 | !flash
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| 15:11 | <ltsp`> flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
| |
| 15:11 | <alkisg> For example, imagine 2.5 gbps per client... i.e. 25 gbps... :)
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| 15:12 | Thin clients are only good when we can't afford fat clients
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| 15:12 | <darkend> hy people. I have a little problem with my users in my Debian ltsp server. the problem is that my users can´t see the usb memory when they pling in.
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| 15:12 | <laro> I was thinking about using more old hardware and go from 12 clients to 24-25 after this setup
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| 15:13 | <alkisg> darkend: did you read about the ltsp-pnp guide?
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| 15:14 | laro, 1 GB DDR ram = 15 euros. You needed 6 GB RAM for 12 clients of 512 MB RAM each. I.e. 90 euros.
| |
| 15:14 | And with that, the server could easily support e.g. 40 clients
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| 15:14 | <laro> In Madrid we have a ubuntu-based distro called MAX linux, education oriented. It uses TCOS so I was initially trying to set up TCOS. But with this hardware so new, I had to install more recent ubuntu OS, and then found LTSP. It's much easier to maintain that TCOS
| |
| 15:14 | <darkend> yes. i read it but is not avaliable for Debian...i think so
| |
| 15:14 | <laro> TCOS doesnt have the fat client option
| |
| 15:14 | that's why I didnt think of it
| |
| 15:14 | <alkisg> darkend: of course it is
| |
| 15:14 | <laro> with ltsp I can try both setups right?
| |
| 15:15 | thin and fat
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| 15:16 | <alkisg> laro, yes, ltsp-pnp automatically does both
| |
| 15:16 | <darkend> alkisg: i can´t found in my repo
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| 15:16 | <alkisg> !learn ltsp-pnp-debian as https://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto#Installing_LTSP_using_the_LTSP-PNP_method
| |
| 15:16 | <ltsp`> The operation succeeded.
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| 15:16 | <alkisg> darkend: see that URL ^
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| 15:16 | <laro> I can still buy that RAM and have more clients then. With this ltsp-pnp guide I don't need to install the 64bit version and use chroot because it uses more than 4gb
| |
| 15:16 | right?
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| 15:16 | <alkisg> darkend: there's no "ltsp-pnp" package, it's still plain ltsp, with different command line parameters
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| 15:16 | laro: right
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| 15:16 | <darkend> alkisg: ok. i talk to you latter.
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| 15:17 | <alkisg> laro: We're using ltsp-pnp in more than 1000 schools here, so it's basically designed for that use case nowadays (I'm an ltsp developer)
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| 15:17 | <laro> ok thanks a lot
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| 15:17 | <alkisg> You're welcome
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| 15:17 | <laro> yes you are doing great in Greece with ltsp
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| 15:17 | <alkisg> Try to start it in Madrid too :)
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| 15:18 | <laro> :) I now other schools who are waiting for my "adventure" outcome to go for a similar ltsp setup
| |
| 15:19 | I'm jsut a primary school teacher with no IT studies beside my own research, but I'm really stubborn
| |
| 15:20 | <alkisg> Note that you can usually also move some RAM, e.g. 512 on pc01 and 512 on pc02 ==> 256 on pc01 and 768 on pc02,
| |
| 15:20 | so that way pc01 would be a decent thin client and pc02 a fat one
| |
| 15:20 | As 512 is the lowest limit for fat clients, they suffer a bit with such low ram
| |
| 15:21 | <laro> so with this VM with ltsp-pnp I just made, I can hook up a laptop to my network and it would work with pxe?
| |
| 15:21 | https://www.amazon.es/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?__mk_es_ES=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=memoria+ddr
| |
| 15:21 | that kind of RAM should work right?
| |
| 15:22 | <alkisg> The laptop would work fine, yes
| |
| 15:23 | p4 need DDR-1, watch out not to buy DDR-2 by mistake
| |
| 15:23 | (and in rare cases, SDRAM)
| |
| 15:23 | <laro> and how can I set up a VM to boot? from the same computer?
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| 15:23 | <alkisg> Just boot the laptop with f12 => network boot
| |
| 15:23 | Don't use a vm if you have a real client around
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| 15:23 | <laro> ok
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| 15:23 | <alkisg> (you might need to enable the lan boot rom in bios)
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| 15:24 | <darkend> alksig: i read the notice and i have a dude...Where i can create de users...in the server or in the client???
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| 15:24 | <laro> well the VM just booted! :D will try the laptop too
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| 15:24 | <alkisg> darkend: in the server
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| 15:24 | <darkend> all rigth
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| 15:25 | thank´s alkisg
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| 15:25 | <laro> for the fat clients, what guide should I follow after ltsp-pnp install?
| |
| 15:25 | <alkisg> No guide, that was it, it supports fat clients too
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| 15:25 | clients with > 400 ram are automatically booted as fat
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| 15:25 | and they show up as blue in the epoptes user interfce
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| 15:25 | <laro> :O
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| 15:25 | <alkisg> with < 400, they boot as thin, and show up as green icons
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| 15:26 | You can force thin/fat with LTSP_FATCLIENT=True/False, if needed
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| 15:27 | <laro> well that was easier than expected!
| |
| 15:28 | my only doubt now, what should I do different with my 3 NICs setup?
| |
| 15:29 | your recommendation then is ubuntu mate 16.04 32-bit for the server
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| 15:29 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 15:29 | For the 3 nics, put one of them in dhcp mode for the internet, and the other 2 in bonded mode for the clients,
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| 15:29 | and specify ip=192.168.67.1 for the bonded ones
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| 15:30 | <laro> is it normal that if I do ifconfig, only 2 nics appear istead of 3?
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| 15:30 | I have the motherboard one, and 2 pci-e
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| 15:30 | <alkisg> lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 Ethernet
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| 15:31 | Maybe you disabled the one in the motherboard?
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| 15:31 | from the bios?
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| 15:31 | <laro> no, it's the one I'm using right now
| |
| 15:31 | 00:1f.6 Ethernet controller [0200]: Intel Corporation Ethernet Connection (2) I219-V [8086:15b8] (rev 31) Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Device [1043:8672] Kernel driver in use: e1000e -- 04:00.0 Ethernet controller [0200]: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller [10ec:8168] (rev 02) Subsystem: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. Device [10ec:0123] Kernel driver in use: r8169
| |
| 15:32 | <alkisg> Maybe the 3rd nic is not seated correctly in the slot... dunno
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| 15:32 | It should definately show up
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| 15:32 | <laro> could be
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| 15:32 | to set up one in dhcp... I have to edit the interfaces?
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| 15:33 | sorry for the abuse alkisg, I know I'm asking a lot
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| 15:33 | <alkisg> You can set them up from network-manager, so that you see if they're connected, their speed etc
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| 15:35 | network manager in 16.04 even supports bonding
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| 15:35 | <laro> ok thank you very much, I'll install ubuntu mate 32 bit directly on the server, install ltsp-pnp and take it to school tomorrow
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| 15:35 | great!
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| 15:35 | <alkisg> Nice, good luck :)
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| 15:35 | <laro> important to have that gigabit switch and cat6 cables i guess
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| 15:35 | <alkisg> No cat6 needed
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| 15:36 | Cat 5e is enough even if just for the server
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| 15:36 | <laro> And if we use a proxy for connecting to internet, I only have to set it on the server right?
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| 15:36 | ok 5e will do then
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| 15:36 | <alkisg> Now you only have 100 mbps switch? not a single gigabit port?
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| 15:37 | <laro> yes, is pretty old
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| 15:37 | <Hyperbyte> laro, don't feel sorry for abusing alkisg. He's used to it.
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| 15:38 | <alkisg> OK then bonding will make that connection 200 mbps
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| 15:38 | Hahaha
| |
| 15:38 | Too true... :D
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| 15:38 | <Hyperbyte> :-)
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| 15:38 | <laro> haha Hyperbyte thanks, its a relief I'm not the only one :D
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| 15:38 | <Hyperbyte> Yeah, it must be a relief to know you're in fact part of a much bigger problem. ;-)
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| 15:38 | Kidding! It's not a problem of course you asking questions here.
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| 15:42 | <laro> haha
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| 15:42 | I felt so alone before! I don't know anybody in person who has done this before
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| 15:46 | anyway, do you know anything about installing this ubuntu setup in RAID? ^_^'
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| 15:47 | taking advantage of this situation... hehe
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| 15:50 | <Hyperbyte> I've never installed Ubuntu with RAID
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| 15:50 | Shouldn't be difficult though, it's pretty mainstream... and you can find better quality help with that in #ubuntu channel :-)
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| 15:50 | <laro> your right
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| 15:51 | and the flow control issue, if I buy a non-managed switch "<alkisg> Our new code can disable flow control even in unmanaged switches"
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| 15:51 | <Hyperbyte> Installing Ubuntu on a hardware RAID array should be the same as on a regular disk, if it's a true RAID controller.
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| 15:52 | <laro> I guess I have to use the script in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl
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| 15:52 | <Hyperbyte> If it's a FakeRAID controller, forget about it - don't even try. Most non-server motherboards have FakeRAID rather than RAID. It's pointless.
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| 15:52 | <laro> yes but I dont have a true RAID controller, it's fake raid
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| 15:52 | <Hyperbyte> If you want RAID without a proper hardware RAID controller, you can use software RAID. It's much better.
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| 15:52 | (much better than FakeRAID)
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| 15:52 | There's extensive howto on installing Ubuntu with software RAID.
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| 15:53 | <laro> yes that's what I tried but UEFI bios got in the way (raid wouldn't show up as boot devide)
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| 15:53 | <Hyperbyte> It shouldn't.
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| 15:54 | <Hyperbyte> Because if you use software RAID, it only becomes RAID after the OS is booted. Not before.
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| 15:54 | Or to be more precise, when the kernel is loaded.
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| 15:54 | <laro> I understand
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| 15:54 | but I think even the disks werent there, as a bootable option
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| 15:54 | I have to try again
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| 15:54 | <Hyperbyte> laro, that makes no sense.
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| 15:55 | Software RAID has nothing do with UEFI or BIOS.
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| 15:55 | It's like installing a piece of software. The Ubuntu installation itself could interfere with UEFI, but not because of the software RAID I think.
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| 15:55 | <laro> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SoftwareRAID this guide right?
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| 15:56 | <Hyperbyte> Anyway... check Ubuntu forums, or #ubuntu here on Freenode... much more experienced people there. ;-)
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| 15:56 | Yeah.
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| 15:56 | <laro> but when you automatically partition, if you use UEFI, it creates 3 partitions: UEFI, swap, primary
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| 15:57 | I have to give it another try, maybe with 16.04 it works
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| 15:58 | <Hyperbyte> laro, that happens regardless of whether you do software RAID or not I think.
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| 15:58 | <maldridge> Hyperbyte: the bios might not be smart enough to scan beyond the RAID headers on the disk, depending on the implementation it might still write out headers even for software rade
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| 16:00 | <Hyperbyte> maldridge, hm... I stand corrected apparently. Never heard of that... but I generally try to stay away from UEFI, so I'm probably missing out on some really useful features. :-)
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| 16:00 | <laro> well nowadays can you stay away from uefi with new cpus?
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| 16:01 | <maldridge> eh, I tend to boot servers from single disks anyway and just use an NFS mount for all the data I really care about
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| 16:01 | that, and I avoid hardware raid controllers like the plague
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| 16:28 | <laro> it turns out my school's pentium 4s have 1gb RAM... so tomorrow I will try them as fat clients
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| 17:12 | <alkisg> laro: instead of using raid, an easier setup is to put / in one disk, /home on the other
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| 17:12 | But sure installing md while using ubuntu-desktop.iso is also possible
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| 17:34 | <laro> Thank you, I'll try that
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| 17:34 | wanted to try raid 1 for speed
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| 17:35 | I have to go, thanks for everything again. I will come back and tell you my success (hope so :D)
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| 18:30 | <vagrantc> raid1 will give fast reads but slow write
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| 18:48 | <Guest54310> Hello Everyone, I'm trying to get working setup under Ubunti Wily (15.10)
| |
| 18:48 | Ubuntu*
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| 18:49 | <alkisg> Hi Guest54310, why 15.10 instead of 16.04?
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| 18:49 | <Guest54310> Hi Alkisg
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| 18:50 | that was initially because 16.04 was still beta and I'm planning on having a production setup
| |
| 18:50 | now that 16.04 will be out tomorrow I might switch given I'm facing several issues
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| 18:50 | <alkisg> But now it's not beta, so you can upgrade an enjoy a newer and fixed ltsp :)
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| 18:50 | It's out today...
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| 18:50 | <Guest54310> ahh today ?
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| 18:50 | so you suggest that LTSP will work out of the box ?
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| 18:50 | <alkisg> Yup, although upgrades won't be automatically offered until 16.04.1 some months from now
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| 18:50 | !ltsp-pnp
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| 18:50 | <ltsp`> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
| |
| 18:51 | <alkisg> That how-to works out of the box in 15.10 too, as long as you put the ppa it mentions
| |
| 18:51 | <Guest54310> well given I haven't achieved any satisfying results on 15.10, starting again with 16.04 is an open option and I'll do it
| |
| 18:52 | <alkisg> Then I suggest downloading mate-16.04-i386-desktop.iso and following that how-to
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| 18:52 | <Guest54310> I didn't know about ltsp-pnp, I'll read about it
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| 18:52 | <alkisg> What are you expected use of ltsp?
| |
| 18:52 | And, how many clients and what specs, cpu/ram?
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| 18:52 | <Guest54310> well I want to power thin clients for web development stations
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| 18:53 | I'm installing the server on a virtual machine
| |
| 18:53 | <alkisg> cpu/ram of the thin clients?
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| 18:53 | <Guest54310> the VM sits on an HP DL 380 G9
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| 18:54 | for the thin clients I now have an HP G62 laptop
| |
| 18:54 | but I'm planning on running the clients on Raspberry PI 3
| |
| 18:54 | once I have a running setup
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| 18:55 | A 1.2GHz 64-bit quad-core ARM Cortex-A53 CPU
| |
| 18:55 | and 1G of RAM
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| 18:55 | <alkisg> Your laptop has 1275 score: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Athlon+II+P340+Dual-Core
| |
| 18:55 | <Guest54310> for the thin clients
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| 18:55 | <alkisg> It's good enough for a diskless fat client
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| 18:55 | pi3's, not so good
| |
| 18:55 | But since you already have a monster server... oh well
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| 18:56 | In general, it's better to have a low spec server and good diskless fat clients
| |
| 18:56 | LTSP (and all OSes) work better that way
| |
| 18:56 | <Guest54310> hmmm what's an acceptable score for thin clients ?
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| 18:56 | <alkisg> For thin clients, p3's are ok
| |
| 18:56 | For fat clients, no, it needs >= 1000
| |
| 18:56 | <Guest54310> well I still don't have a perfect understanding of the difference between FAT and Thin clients ?
| |
| 18:56 | and for thin clients ?
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| 18:57 | <alkisg> both are netbooted, diskless
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| 18:57 | thins are like remote desktop, they run the apps on the server
| |
| 18:57 | fats are like networked disk on the server, but run everything with their own cpu/ram
| |
| 18:57 | So if they can actually run an OS locally, it works much better than sending lots of screen data over the network
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| 18:57 | <Guest54310> very interesting
| |
| 18:58 | <alkisg> So if you do have an option to buy something x86 based with 1000+ score, diskless, go for that option instead
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| 18:58 | <Guest54310> so basically a FAT client is the equivalent of simply using the Hard Disk of the server
| |
| 18:58 | <alkisg> ltsp-pnp will let you try both of them and see what you prefer
| |
| 18:58 | Yes
| |
| 18:58 | Centralized authentication and /home
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| 18:58 | <Guest54310> where thin clients will use all the resources of the server
| |
| 18:58 | <alkisg> Right
| |
| 18:59 | <Guest54310> can I have both on the same ltsp server ?
| |
| 18:59 | <alkisg> Yup, ltsp-pnp does that by default
| |
| 18:59 | And then you select by some lts.conf option named LTSP_FATCLIENT=true/false what you want them to be
| |
| 18:59 | <Guest54310> that sounds amazing
| |
| 19:01 | Also, starting the ltsp server from a Server version of Ubuntu, is it OK or not advised ?
| |
| 19:01 | <alkisg> Not advised, it's additional headache for the sysadmin
| |
| 19:02 | <Guest54310> ok so which version is better to start ?
| |
| 19:02 | <alkisg> !learn mate-cd as This is the proposed CD to setup your Ubuntu LTSP server: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mate/releases/16.04/release/ubuntu-mate-16.04-desktop-i386.iso
| |
| 19:02 | <ltsp`> The operation succeeded.
| |
| 19:03 | <alkisg> !forget mate-cd
| |
| 19:03 | <ltsp`> The operation succeeded.
| |
| 19:03 | <Guest54310> mate instead of unity ?
| |
| 19:03 | <alkisg> !learn mate-cd as This is the proposed CD to setup your Ubuntu LTSP server: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mate/releases/16.04/release/ubuntu-mate-16.04-desktop-i386.iso. If ALL your clients are amd64 >= 2 GB RAM, you can choose the amd64 version instead.
| |
| 19:03 | <ltsp`> The operation succeeded.
| |
| 19:04 | <alkisg> If you prefer unity, go for it, but it doesn't work fast for thin clients
| |
| 19:04 | If you'll only be having fat clients, then it's not an issue
| |
| 19:05 | <Guest54310> I see, so with mate I can expect a smooth and fluid experience for the thin clients ?
| |
| 19:05 | with an amd64 arch ?
| |
| 19:05 | <alkisg> As smooth as networked Xorg allows it, with any arch
| |
| 19:05 | ubuntu-mate is offered for pi clients as well, so it's a good option
| |
| 19:05 | <Guest54310> I guess I need to try both
| |
| 19:06 | <alkisg> Start with that iso and with the ltsp-pnp guide
| |
| 19:06 | And if you're stuck anywhere, ask again
| |
| 19:06 | See here some drawback with thins:
| |
| 19:06 | !flash
| |
| 19:06 | <ltsp`> flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
| |
| 19:06 | <alkisg> It's not just about flash; scrolling windows etc need a lot of bandwidth
| |
| 19:07 | And surely 2.5 gpbs per client isn't possible
| |
| 19:07 | So there's always a little, or a little more, lag on screen updates
| |
| 19:07 | With fats, this isn't an issue, as e.g. the flash video comes from youtube uncompressed at just 1 mbps
| |
| 19:07 | *compressed, sorry
| |
| 19:08 | <Guest54310> quick (naive maybe) question: with a FAT client, is the expected RAM/CPU consumption similar to what you would have when installing the OS on the client ?
| |
| 19:08 | <alkisg> Exactly, well, a bit less, as ltsp-pnp is smart enough to delete a few unneeded services
| |
| 19:08 | <Guest54310> yeah I see this is very clear, unless I switch to 10GBs network equipment which I'm not considering
| |
| 19:09 | ok so basically the advantage of a fat client over a regular workstation is to ease updates and migration from a station to another
| |
| 19:10 | any other advantage ?
| |
| 19:10 | <alkisg> You maintain one pc instead of many
| |
| 19:11 | <Guest54310> software wise you mean, right ?
| |
| 19:11 | <alkisg> Yup, for software, users, backups, all of it
| |
| 19:11 | The clients are easily replaceable, the users can work in any client they want etc
| |
| 19:12 | E.g. in schools we have 13 clients but we're only using 12. When one fails, we replace it with the spare one and get the broken one for repair, with just 1 minute downtime
| |
| 19:14 | <Guest54310> yup that's cool
| |
| 19:14 | thanks a lot for all the help!
| |
| 19:15 | <alkisg> You're welcome
| |
| 19:15 | <Guest54310> I have some homework to do
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| 19:16 | Hope all will work smoothly this time as so far it's been very frustrating to debug step by step
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| 19:17 | ohhh one last question, with ltsp-pnp since there's no chroot
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| 19:17 | what's the way to configure the clients (add software, update etc...) ?
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| 19:18 | <alkisg> The server is a "template client"
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| 19:18 | You install/configure whatever you want there
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| 19:18 | And then just publish the changes with ltsp-update-image -c /
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| 19:18 | <Guest54310> hmmmm so no way to have multiple images with ltsp-pnp ?
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| 19:19 | <alkisg> ltsp-pnp will manage the first image, the others will need to be in vms or chroots
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| 19:19 | But usually there's no need for a lot of images
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| 19:19 | Why would you need many?
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| 19:19 | Netbooted clients can be customized on the fly while they boot
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| 19:19 | Menus hidden, services deleted etc
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| 19:20 | <alkisg> It's another advantage of the diskless workstations :)
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| 19:20 | <Guest54310> I don't know yet, but I also have some stations for people in web marketing so they need a different set of software
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| 19:20 | and I might switch them too if that works as expected
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| 19:21 | cool, so the approach is to fully load the server and then you remove what you don't need on boot ?
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| 19:23 | <alkisg> Or you can leave all the software, and people can just not use the apps they don't need
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| 19:23 | <Guest54310> :-)
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| 19:23 | <alkisg> You can delete the menus easily with 1 rm...
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| 19:24 | <Guest54310> I see, that looks good.
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| 19:24 | now you said earlier that we can run an image from a VM ?
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| 19:24 | any link that details this approach ?
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| 19:26 | <alkisg> No I don't have any links to any documentation for that approach
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| 19:26 | <Guest54310> ok
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| 19:26 | you've helped me a lot already
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| 19:26 | thx again
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| 19:27 | <alkisg> You're welcome
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| 19:30 | Guest54310: also, it's better if you use a real nick name (your initial one was taken and you got renamed), so that people here can remember chatting with you etc
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| 19:30 | I.e. run /nick some-nickname
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| 19:30 | *type
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| 19:31 | Guest54310 is now known as Julienf | |
| 19:31 | <Julienf> voila!
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| 19:31 | thanks alkisg
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| 19:31 | <alkisg> nice :)
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| 19:31 | <Julienf> by checking ubuntu mate I can see they have an image specifically crafter for Raspberry Pi
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| 19:32 | any chance I can use this to produce an image specifically for Raspberry PIs ?
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| 19:32 | i.e from a chroot sitting with a regular one from ltsp-pnp ?
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| 19:33 | <alkisg> !raspberrypi
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| 19:33 | <ltsp`> raspberrypi: (#1) Ubuntu/LTSP on Pi 2: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/RaspberryPi, or (#2) Debian/LTSP (with raspbian chroot) on Pi: http://cascadia.debian.net/trenza/Documentation/raspberrypi-ltsp-howto/, or (#3) unofficial Ubuntu/LTSP (with raspbian chroot) on Pi: http://pinet.org.uk/
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| 19:33 | <alkisg> Method #1 there is my tutorial for what you ask :)
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| 19:34 | <alkisg> It might need a bit of updating for 16.04...
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| 19:37 | <Julienf> Amazing!
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| 19:37 | I'll try the regular thin/fat client on the old HP laptop
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| 19:37 | once I get going I'll try on one Pi2
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| 19:37 | <alkisg> Good choice
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| 19:40 | * vagrantc can hardly count the number of people who attempt their first LTSP install as the most complicate possible combination of features without first getting a basic understanding of the default configuration | |
| 19:41 | <alkisg> Yeah Julienf sounds like a smart person, he quickly understood all the concepts and selected the best implementation path...
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| 19:43 | <Julienf> Thanks alkisg, well I know I'm still in learning phase now, I did some test hoping it would work, it didn't but at least it gave me enough knowledge to know which questions to ask here :-)
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| 19:43 | I hope now with 16.04 things will be smoother
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| 19:44 | ohh another detail I learned here, I started with a server version of 15.10 so that wasn't a good choice neither
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| 19:44 | <alkisg> Julienf: the real question is, why googling didn't give you the ltsp-pnp tutorial :D
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| 19:44 | Which tutorial did you try to install ltsp?
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| 19:45 | <Julienf> excellent question
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| 19:45 | here are the tutorials I stumbled upon with my first googling
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| 19:45 | http://www.havetheknowhow.com/Configure-the-server/Install-LTSP.html
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| 19:45 | and http://moo.nac.uci.edu/~hjm/LTSP_HOWTO.html#_customizing_client_behavior
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| 19:46 | and then I got distracted trying to move forward and solving the problems I was facing
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| 19:46 | namely, redirect to a 64 bit image instead of a 32 bit by default in the dhcp configuration
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| 19:47 | then an NFS error (which now seems weird to me since everything is configured by default to use nbd)
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| 19:47 | finally I got going with the ldm screen
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| 19:47 | * alkisg sighs... | |
| 19:48 | <Julienf> but I couldn't manage to make the login work with ldm restarting on succesful login
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| 19:48 | I stumbled upon this page to get going
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| 19:48 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting
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| 19:48 | that showed ssh related errors
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| 19:48 | <alkisg> ltsp is broken in 15.10 without our ppa
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| 19:48 | <Julienf> well, I've discovered the greeks school ppa
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| 19:48 | <alkisg> Lots and lots of already known and fixed bugs there
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| 19:48 | Ah, nice start, but did you also add it to the chroot?
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| 19:48 | <Julienf> I added it (had some issues adding it because of charset by the way)
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| 19:48 | yeah to both
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| 19:49 | <alkisg> See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp ==> "Relevant bug reports'
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| 19:49 | * vagrantc hopes 16.04 will be functional enough without requiring extra repositories | |
| 19:49 | <alkisg> Is that the bug you're referring to?
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| 19:50 | <vagrantc> not that i'll use it ... but the last couple years have been filled with people having things broken on ubuntu that were fixed a long time ago
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| 19:50 | <alkisg> If we can make the microreleases + SRUs thing work, then sure, otherwise the PPA will again be necessary at some point
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| 19:50 | <Julienf> yes the UTF8 error
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| 19:51 | <alkisg> I don't think you should be using a non-utf-8 locale...
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| 19:51 | <Julienf> well I'm not
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| 19:51 | and none of the fix worked
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| 19:51 | <alkisg> Then is it a different issue?
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| 19:51 | <Julienf> well same error message but most probably not the same cause
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| 19:51 | <alkisg> If you try `add-apt-repository` now, what happens?
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| 19:51 | Is it still not working?
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| 19:51 | <Julienf> yes
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| 19:51 | <alkisg> Can I see?
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| 19:51 | !vnc-dide
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| 19:51 | <ltsp`> vnc-dide: To share your screen with me, run this: sudo apt-get --yes install x11vnc; x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr - this is a reverse connection, it doesn't need port forwarding etc.
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| 19:52 | <Julienf> hmm I'm on a mac
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| 19:52 | but I can tell you how I can reproduce the error
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| 19:52 | <alkisg> You don't have vnc to the server?
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| 19:52 | That command would be ran on the server, not on the mac
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| 19:52 | <Julienf> nop I'm using terminal and ssh into it
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| 19:52 | <alkisg> OK
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| 19:52 | <Julienf> and that's how the error reproduces
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| 19:52 | <alkisg> You can share the ssh if you want, but ok tell me how to reproduce it
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| 19:52 | <Julienf> when I'm sshing into it
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| 19:53 | so when I connected through a remote desktop
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| 19:53 | it worked directly
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| 19:53 | well I'm affraid it won't work as the server is not connected with a real IP
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| 19:53 | I need a VPN to access it
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| 19:53 | <alkisg> Can the server run apt-get update?
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| 19:54 | If yes, it'll work
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| 19:54 | But anyways
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| 19:54 | I don't have the issue if I run add-apt-repository over ssh
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| 19:54 | <vagrantc> alkisg: well, there are bugs, and then there are bugs... some are more critical than others ... hopefully ubuntu doesn't introduce bugs that break the currently working setup.
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| 19:54 | <alkisg> So probably your ssh configuration is wrong
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| 19:54 | <Julienf> yes maybe
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| 19:54 | but well when I was checking the locale
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| 19:55 | it was stating UTF8 en_US
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| 19:55 | <alkisg> en_US.UTF-8?
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| 19:55 | In all of the LC* variables?
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| 19:55 | <Julienf> let me check now
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| 19:56 | <alkisg> locale | tr '\n' ' '
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| 19:56 | And paste the output line here
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| 19:58 | <Julienf> here you go
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| 19:58 | locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory locale: Cannot set LC_ALL to default locale: No such file or directory LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LANGUAGE=en_US:en LC_CTYPE=UTF-8 LC_NUMERIC="en_US.UTF-8" LC_TIME="en_US.UTF-8" LC_COLLATE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_MONETARY="en_US.UTF-8" LC_MESSAGES="en_US.UTF-8" LC_PAPER="en_US.UTF-8" LC_NAME="en_US.UTF-8" LC_ADDRESS="en_US.UTF-8" LC_TELEPHONE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_MEASUREMENT="en_US.UT
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| 19:58 | <alkisg> Yeah that's a good indication that your setup is wrong
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| 19:59 | cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory locale
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| 19:59 | <vagrantc> LC_CTYPE=UTF-8 ?
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| 19:59 | <alkisg> Also some part is missing, after LC_MEASUREMENT, the line was too long
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| 20:00 | I.e. paste LC_ALL as well
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| 20:00 | <Julienf> well I didn't change any config on that
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| 20:00 | just downloaded ubuntu 15.10 server iso
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| 20:00 | and installed it on a Virtualbox VM
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| 20:01 | <alkisg> It might be your mac that is broken
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| 20:01 | ssh allows for forwarding lc variables
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| 20:01 | <Julienf> possible as I think I'm getting a similar warning on a CentOS machine when I access it from SSH
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| 20:02 | yup same thing (I just checked)
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| 20:03 | yet on some other servers I don't get this warning
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| 20:03 | most probably ssh on my servers allow lc variables forwarding and not the other servers I'm sshing into (wild guess)
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| 20:04 | <alkisg> Just try fixing your mac environment
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| 20:05 | <Julienf> I will
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| 20:08 | <Julienf> Thanks a lot for your help alkisg and vagrantc
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| 20:08 | <alkisg> np
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| 20:08 | <Julienf> I'll take this and do my homework
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| 20:08 | Have a great a night
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| 21:38 | <laro> Hi again
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| 21:39 | alksig I don't know if you are around, it's late in greece. I tried to install ubuntu mate 16.04 32bit on my system (intel i7 6700k on ASUS z170 motherboard)
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| 21:39 | And it installs but then it doesnt boot
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| 21:39 | u_u
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| 21:39 | I tried changing options in CSM (legacy boot mode) in bios settings with no luck.
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| 21:39 | Can somebody help? Thanks in advance
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| 21:40 | <vagrantc> try #ubuntu ?
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| 21:40 | <laro> does it something to do with EFI?
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| 21:41 | I'll do that, thanks
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