IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 1 March 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:01 | <gnunux> hi
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| 07:58 | <AndyGraybeal> okay, i need some help -- i am trying to install a scanner on a client, and maybe eventually share it with everyone. i'm following these instructions: http://www.mail-archive.com/ltsp-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net/msg35849.html although i'm very confused. i have installed inetd and sane-utils as sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get... i get the testing xterm to run locally.. hurray. i'm very confused when it comes to editing the /et
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| 08:03 | i'm gonna post this in #edubuntu too.. in hopes of catching an answer.
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| 08:09 | <AndyGraybeal> i'm sorry i'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this i hope after this example (my first) i understand it.
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| 08:22 | <Gadi1> AndyGraybeal: if you are using any relatively new version of LTSP, you should just be able to set: SCANNER=True in lts.conf
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| 08:23 | and it will recognize your scanner
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| 08:23 | <AndyGraybeal> ah interesting.
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| 08:23 | Version: 5.1.29-0ubuntu3 <--
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| 08:24 | does SCANNER=True live in the [default] section of lts.conf?
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| 08:24 | <Gadi1> it does if you want all clients to run the scanner daemon
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| 08:24 | <AndyGraybeal> ah awesome, yes
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| 08:25 | <AndyGraybeal> nwo to remember where lts.conf is
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| 08:25 | <Gadi1> scanner support was added in 5.1.85
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| 08:25 | so, you may need a newer version of LTSP
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| 08:26 | <AndyGraybeal> ah crap, i think this is the latest ltsp that ubuntu 8.10 repo has
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| 08:27 | it's always something :)
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| 08:27 | <Gadi1> well, you can always hack it in
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| 08:27 | hey, that post was from me!
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| 08:27 | hehe
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| 08:28 | <AndyGraybeal> the http address i posted?
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| 08:28 | <Gadi1> yeah
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| 08:28 | <AndyGraybeal> would you mind holding my hand a little?
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| 08:28 | when it comes to adding stuff to the client's identd.conf .. i'm a little confused.
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| 08:29 | this url was inside that post, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ScanningHowTo ... on how to 'serve' a scanner on 8.10
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| 08:30 | you'll have to scroll down a little to see the instructions, and i almost wish there was instruction to install the scanner with LTSP in mind...
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| 08:31 | the first step of the 8.10 server-side instructions are to edit the /etc/inetd.conf -- and i think that means sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/inetd.conf ... correct?
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| 08:31 | <Gadi1> hehe
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| 08:31 | <AndyGraybeal> sudo chroot vim /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/inetd.conf ... correct?
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| 08:31 | <Gadi1> yeah
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| 08:31 | so, lets see
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| 08:32 | right in that file add: sane-port stream tcp nowait saned.saned /usr/sbin/saned saned
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| 08:33 | <AndyGraybeal> okay i have done so
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| 08:34 | <Gadi1> ok, now, I do not recall whether an empty access list means that anyone can connect
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| 08:34 | <AndyGraybeal> so the next instruction is to 'sudo /etc/init.d/inetd restart' does this mean sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 /etc/init.d/inetd restart
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| 08:34 | ?
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| 08:34 | <Gadi1> no, you dont need that
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| 08:35 | because it should be set to start on boot
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| 08:35 | <AndyGraybeal> okay, but do i need to restart it atleast?
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| 08:35 | <Gadi1> (ie, you need not manually restart it now)
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| 08:35 | <AndyGraybeal> ok
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| 08:35 | <Gadi1> no
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| 08:35 | <AndyGraybeal> i'm sorry
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| 08:35 | <Gadi1> because then it will run on the server
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| 08:35 | which you do not want
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| 08:35 | <AndyGraybeal> ah evil.. i wonder.. if i've already done such a thing
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| 08:35 | <Gadi1> there are worse things
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| 08:35 | :)
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| 08:36 | <AndyGraybeal> okay :)
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| 08:36 | so now you are saying thqat i need to worry about access lists.
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| 08:36 | <Gadi1> well, thats what: /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/sane.d/saned.conf
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| 08:36 | is
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| 08:36 | <AndyGraybeal> okay
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| 08:36 | <Gadi1> it is an access list
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| 08:36 | but, I am fairly sure that with no entries, it allows access to all
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| 08:37 | <AndyGraybeal> okay - i don't mind putting the subnet in, like the instructions say.
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| 08:38 | <Gadi1> ok
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| 08:38 | then do that to be safe
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| 08:38 | then, update the image and reboot a thin client
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| 08:38 | <AndyGraybeal> okay awesome thank you for the help.
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| 08:39 | i'm a little slow at all this.
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| 08:39 | <Gadi1> after you log in, open a terminal window and type:
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| 08:40 | SANE_NET_HOST=${LTSP_CLIENT} xsane
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| 08:41 | that should hopefully bring up xsane and have it recognize ur scanner
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| 08:41 | if you find that your scanner is not being recognized in applications from the menu, you may need to set: export SANE_NET_HOST=${LTSP_CLIENT}
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| 08:41 | in a script in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/
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| 08:42 | <AndyGraybeal> interesting, confusing... okay one step at a time .. i'll brb.. i need tor ebuild and restart the client.
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| 08:42 | <Gadi1> soorry- actually that is SANE_NET_HOSTS (plural)
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| 08:42 | <AndyGraybeal> my head feels like it hurts with this stuff.
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| 08:42 | <Gadi1> hehe
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| 08:42 | background info:
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| 08:42 | <AndyGraybeal> okay, plural, thats fine.. i wondered where the hell you came up with that line.
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| 08:42 | <Gadi1> SANE = scanner framework in Linux
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| 08:42 | <AndyGraybeal> ok.. brb
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| 08:43 | <Gadi1> it is client-server
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| 08:43 | so can client applications can connect to the scanner daemon over the network
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| 08:43 | you are running the scanner daemon on the client (from inetd)
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| 08:43 | and having the applications that run on the server connect to it
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| 08:44 | the environment variable SANE_NET_HOSTS tells the clients what hosts on your network have a scanner that can be connected to
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| 08:44 | <AndyGraybeal> aah interesting.
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| 08:44 | <Gadi1> you can also set that in a file on the application server
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| 08:44 | but, I kinda like setting it on the fly
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| 08:44 | guess thats personal preference
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| 08:44 | <AndyGraybeal> i don't understand what you mean by 'on-the-fly'
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| 08:45 | <Gadi1> meaning on login
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| 08:45 | <AndyGraybeal> okay, so i don't even need to type it in again after i type it in once?
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| 08:45 | <Gadi1> so, if you login from a thin client that actually has scanning enabled, it sets the variable to tell the apps that it is available
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| 08:46 | no. this command will prove that you have the setup working: SANE_NET_HOSTS=${LTSP_CLIENT} xsane
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| 08:47 | that just sets the variable for the terminal environment that you are running
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| 08:47 | not for the whole session
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| 08:47 | to set an env variable for the whole session, you would drop a file in: /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ (or some other place appropriate to the distro you use)
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| 08:48 | that sets env variables for the session
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| 08:48 | <AndyGraybeal> okay i'm back.
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| 08:48 | i'm gonna type that command in now
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| 08:48 | <Gadi1> that way, you dont have to type it in
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| 08:48 | <AndyGraybeal> ah.. Xsession.d .. i've never done stuff like this ever.
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| 08:49 | okay, it says 'no devices available' .. brb.. i got a nother scanner i can plug in and test.
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| 08:54 | <Gadi1> you should also make sure that you can get a shell on the thin client, so you can verify that inetd is running, etc
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| 08:55 | <AndyGraybeal> ah like the localapps xterm thing?
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| 08:55 | <Gadi1> yeah
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| 08:55 | or like: SCREEN_08=shell
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| 08:55 | <AndyGraybeal> is that what you meant in the first place (run the sanehosts thing on the localapps xterm?
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| 08:56 | <Gadi1> no no
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| 08:56 | that should run on the server
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| 08:56 | <AndyGraybeal> ah ok
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| 08:56 | okay, i've never heard of SCREEN_08=shell
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| 08:56 | <Gadi1> oh
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| 08:56 | in lts.conf, do this:
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| 08:56 | SCREEN_07=ldm
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| 08:56 | SCREEN_08=shell
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| 08:56 | (in the [default] section)
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| 08:56 | <AndyGraybeal> in [default] ?
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| 08:56 | okay
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| 08:57 | <Gadi1> then, when you reboot the client, you will be able to press: ctrl-alt-f8
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| 08:57 | <Gadi1> and switch to a shell on the client
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| 08:57 | (where you will be root
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| 08:57 | you can use that shell to see what is running
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| 08:58 | for example, netstat -anp|grep :6566
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| 08:58 | <AndyGraybeal> ah interesting
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| 08:58 | <Gadi1> should return something
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| 08:58 | if inetd is running and configured to listen for scanning requests
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| 08:59 | <AndyGraybeal> okay
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| 09:06 | so i edited the lts.conf to add the screens.
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| 09:07 | rbnooting
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| 09:09 | <nino> hi
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| 09:09 | <cliebow> halloo
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| 09:09 | <nino> can anyone help me with a LTSP/Ubuntu problem with a Asus EEE Box as client?
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| 09:09 | <Appiah> well
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| 09:09 | we can try if you describe your problem
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| 09:09 | <cliebow> elaborate and someone can prob help
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| 09:09 | <nino> ok
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| 09:11 | Well i get the problem that a lot of other people have with the EEE Box. PXE finds the image, but it hangs on boot because it can't find the eth0 network device. so I followed this guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLtspAsusEee ,still the same problem. I edited the script to show me the loaded modules, ATL2 is loaded at the time it starts to try finding the network device
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| 09:13 | The Guide posted above is for 701 and 900. My Box is B202, are there any updated Guides?
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| 09:15 | <johnny> you're gonna have to find the actual nic module by looking at lspci
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| 09:15 | and then you can rebuild it with the right module
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| 09:15 | so.. boot it off a livecd or somethin
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| 09:16 | <nino> ok, thanks, will try that
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| 09:18 | <alkisg> Learn shell-screen as One way to get local root access to troubleshoot a thin client is to use a shell SCREEN: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using%20a%20shell%20SCREEN
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| 09:18 | !learn shell-screen as One way to get local root access to troubleshoot a thin client is to use a shell SCREEN: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using%20a%20shell%20SCREEN
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| 09:18 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 09:20 | <cliebow> !shell-screen
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| 09:20 | <ltspbot`> cliebow: "shell-screen" :: One way to get local root access to troubleshoot a thin client is to use a shell SCREEN: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using%20a%20shell%20SCREEN
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| 09:29 | <AndyGraybeal> Gadi1: okay, so i'm at the point where i typed the netstat command in a localapp xterm. it says that port 6566 is listening! woo woo! but i've tried two seperate scanners and nothing comes up. both of them are usb.
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| 09:30 | <Gadi1> at the shell, type: scanimage -L
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| 09:30 | see if it recognizes the scanner
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| 09:30 | <AndyGraybeal> the localapp shell?
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| 09:30 | <Gadi1> or the ctrl-alt-f8
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| 09:30 | yeah
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| 09:31 | <AndyGraybeal> oh, i couldn't get SCREEN_08 to work... i rebooted and it just blinked at me... (black screen) i'll work on that later.
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| 09:31 | thank youf or telling me how to dot hat though
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| 09:31 | scanimage -L says that no scanners were identified
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| 09:31 | lemme try the second one
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| 09:33 | <AndyGraybeal> sane-find-scanner finds somethiung though
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| 09:34 | says i should read the man pages..
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| 09:34 | i'll go through them now
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| 09:37 | <nino> Ok found the problem
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| 09:37 | for the EEE Box B202 its the module jme, not atl2
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| 09:38 | does someone have an account on the ubuntu wiki to update this?
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| 10:14 | <AndyGraybeal> Gadi1: it looks like both the scanners i'm trying to get to work aren't supported by SANE :( i want to cry,.
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| 10:14 | or drink...
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| 10:18 | <Gadi1> AndyGraybeal: do either work when you plug them into the server?
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| 10:20 | <jammcq> good morning friends
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| 10:22 | <AndyGraybeal> Gadi1: i haven't tried pluging them into the server, but .. that xinetd thing is running on port 6566 :) woo woo
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| 10:22 | Gadi1: i'll plug the scanner in on the server
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| 10:22 | <Gadi1> AndyGraybeal: try using them as local scanners on the server
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| 10:22 | <AndyGraybeal> k
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| 10:23 | <Gadi1> if they can work on the server, they can be made to work on the client
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| 10:23 | but, if they are not supported in any way shape or form , of course they cannot
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| 10:23 | :)
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| 10:23 | <AndyGraybeal> Gadi1: i just looked at the SANE website, and both of them aren't supported though
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| 10:23 | <Gadi1> ah, ok
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| 10:23 | <AndyGraybeal> yea, i want to stab myself.
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| 10:23 | <Gadi1> then, you may be out of luck
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| 10:24 | alternatively, if you have windows lying around somehwere, you can make a "scanning station"
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| 10:24 | <vagrantc> the documentation *might* be out of date ... still worth trying on the server.
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| 10:25 | <AndyGraybeal> aah okay - yea, it doesn't specifically say unsupported for the dell 2335dn, it just isn't listed.
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| 10:27 | <AndyGraybeal> yea, one says 'basic' support the microtek scanmaker v6upl; the dell 2335dn isn't listed.
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| 10:29 | <vagrantc> you could test it and then post an update :)
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| 10:37 | <AndyGraybeal> well, the microtek came up just fine.. lemme go get the dell... (i keep calling it an HP)
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| 10:41 | <CAN-o-SPAM> hello LTSP
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| 10:42 | <prpplague> hello spam
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| 10:45 | <CAN-o-SPAM> hi prpplague
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| 10:49 | <AndyGraybeal> Gadi1: just an update - the microtek scanner (the one i don't really want to use) comes up on the server just fine. the dell scanner only gets recognized with sane-find-scanner, it sees the vendor name and product name as hex #'s (or someting like that) but scanimage -L doesn't see it.
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| 10:49 | oh plus with the microtek scanner, it says that the product isn't fully supported, and on the SANE website it says 'unstable'
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| 10:58 | <Gadi1> AndyGraybeal: what do you get on the server when you run the following two commands:
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| 10:58 | dpkg -l|grep sane
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| 10:58 | sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg -l|grep sane
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| 11:06 | <AndyGraybeal> k hold
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| 11:07 | http://www.pastie.org/848365
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| 11:08 | <Gadi1> hmmm... and the microtek scanner did not work when plugged into the thin client?
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| 11:09 | <AndyGraybeal> naw, but lets chalk it up to some newb ignorance.. gimme about 15 minutes and i want to run through the whole thing again.. i'm getting better hang at it now
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| 11:10 | i feel very positive now that i've learned quite a bit.
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| 11:10 | well compared to this morning
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| 11:12 | still need to get a hang of all these new directorys... /opt/ltsp .. /var/lib/tft .. :)
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| 11:14 | <AndyGraybeal> are there drawbacks to running apps locally? like for instance ... i understand that it takes the load off the server -- like firefox eats up so much memory. does everyone choose to run firefox locally?
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| 11:20 | <CAN-o-SPAM> AndyGraybeal: firefox... yes absolutely :)
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| 11:20 | <AndyGraybeal> what are some othe common apps that might be recommended to be run locally?
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| 11:22 | <kusznir> AndyGraybeal: local apps depend a lot on local need. Currently, I don't run anything local, although I am contenplating running firefox locally. My thin clients are Atom 270-based, so I have enough horsepower to make it happen.
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| 11:23 | <CAN-o-SPAM> AndyGraybeal: consider things like flash, java
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| 11:24 | <AndyGraybeal> kusznir, CAN-o-SPAM thank you the responses, i will keep this in mind.
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| 11:24 | <kusznir> AndyGraybeal: other users might run some site-specific hardware-specific stuff, such as perhaps a VoIP app for call center applications. Or perhaps something like a hardware-interfacing program for science labs or other such environments. In some sense, to do scanning, you're running a SANE daemon as a "localapp".
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| 11:24 | AndyGraybeal: some sites run very, very weak thin clients that can't run anything useful; in fact, some sites run LTSP so they can run firefox on a central server...And they can use PII with 128MB ram or even 64MB of ram as "thin clients".
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| 11:25 | <AndyGraybeal> kusznir: cool, interesting.
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| 11:41 | <jelly-bean> how can i setup one user that all new users will clone settings from? (e.g. the hidden $HOME config directories like .purple for pidgin, .mozilla for firefox, xwindows/gnome/xfce/kde settings, etc.) OR how can i clone an existing user when creating a new one?
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| 11:48 | <johnny> use sabayon jelly-bean .. if you want gnome
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| 11:48 | or the kiosk tool for kde
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| 11:48 | or just put some stuff you want for every user in /etc/skel
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| 11:49 | <jelly-bean> johnny: why
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| 11:49 | sabayon
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| 11:50 | <johnny> because it does what you said it should do?
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| 11:52 | <jelly-bean> johnny: so do a lot of linux distros. why sabayon or kiosk?
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| 11:52 | <johnny> huh?
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| 11:52 | it's not a distro
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| 11:52 | it's a program
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| 11:52 | i mean it's a distro.. but i'm talking about the program
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| 11:57 | <jelly-bean> johnny: are they related?
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| 11:58 | <johnny> no
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| 11:58 | not at all
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| 12:04 | <jelly-bean> oh sabayon rocks. thanks johnny
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| 12:05 | so when i create a profile in sabayon, how do i assign a user to it johnny?
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| 12:08 | <johnny> it's in there somewhere
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| 12:08 | make surey ou're using the one from sbalnaev's ppa
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| 12:09 | not the one in the repo.. that one is busted i think
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| 12:09 | !sabayon
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| 12:09 | <ltspbot`> johnny: Error: "sabayon" is not a valid command.
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| 12:18 | <jelly-bean> johnny: not seeing that on google. can u link me to the ppa?
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| 12:20 | <johnny> search sbalnaev ppa launchpad
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| 12:20 | sbalnaev needs to link his ppa here.. :(
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| 12:21 | <alkisg> !learn sbalneav-ppa as https://launchpad.net/~sbalneav/+archive/ppa
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| 12:21 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 12:21 | <alkisg> !learn alkisg-ppa as https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/ppa/
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| 12:21 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 12:22 | <alkisg> ...but we'd better move all those PPAs together to the edubuntu ppa :-/
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| 12:31 | <CAN-o-SPAM> johnny: should be search-able on launchpad, no?
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| 13:26 | <Gadi1> alkisg: btw, thx for all the launchpad janitorial work you're doing
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| 13:27 | its nice when the emails end in Fix Released
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| 13:27 | :)
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| 13:28 | <johnny> now if only i could get it to file into a folder easier..
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| 13:28 | why do they have to use some custom X-Launchpad or whatever header
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| 13:28 | that's terrible
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| 13:28 | they could at least set a list header or somethin
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| 13:29 | something that's used by anybody else but them
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| 13:29 | <Gadi1> hehe. I actually went to file a new bug on LP yesterday and it took me forever to find the Report a Bug button
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| 13:29 | there's definitely some usability testing needed
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| 13:30 | :)
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| 13:30 | I would file a bug about that if I could find the button
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| 13:30 | :P
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| 13:45 | <CAN-o-SPAM> johnny & Gadi1: you should share this with jcastro
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| 13:47 | <jcastro> it's ok, I am painfully aware of the many ways lp punches people in the face
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| 13:48 | <sbalneav> I don't think it's ever punched me in the face.
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| 13:48 | It has slapped me on the ass several times.
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| 13:48 | So I'll be filing sexual assault charges against it. :)
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| 13:49 | You *really* don't want to know what Gnome's bugzilla's been doing to me.
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| 13:50 | <CAN-o-SPAM> haha sbalneav always makes me laugh
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| 13:50 | i.e his first two comments
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| 13:51 | and sbalneav, you've forged a very unique relationship with launchpad, i must say!
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| 13:52 | anahuac has joined #ltsp | |
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| 13:57 | <sbalneav> It's my animal magnetism
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| 13:59 | It's not so bad if I get small rodents and stuff sticking to me.
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| 14:00 | I can't take a trip to africa though. If I got a Giraffe or an Elephant sticking to me, I'd NEVER get it off.
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| 14:01 | <jammcq> heh
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| 14:03 | yeah, and when we all get together, everybody would be afraid to talk, cuz there'd alwas be that elephant in the room
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| 14:08 | <CAN-o-SPAM> haha
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| 14:08 | sbalneav, what happened to the comedy career? i think there's a good chance there ;)
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| 14:09 | <jammcq> anahuac: ping
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| 14:12 | <sbalneav> meh, I'm not clever enough.
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| 14:17 | <jammcq> oh yeah, and Jay Leno is :)
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| 14:17 | * highvoltage stumbles in | |
| 14:18 | shawnp0wers has quit IRC | |
| 14:18 | <jammcq> highvoltage: hey, have you been travelling over to this side of the pond yet?
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| 14:19 | <highvoltage> jammcq: no. been quite frustrating dealing with the embassy. they are extremely slow with anything. if all goes well I should have my visa in about 2 weeks
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| 14:19 | <jammcq> oh cool
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| 14:19 | will that permit you into just Canada?
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| 14:20 | <highvoltage> jammcq: yes, although once I'm there I could apply for a visa into the US quite easily from what I understand
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| 14:21 | * prpplague says don't get him started on VISA's and the US immigration system | |
| 14:21 | <jammcq> heh
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| 14:21 | <highvoltage> prpplague: heh, agreed!
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| 14:21 | <prpplague> highvoltage: i'm a US citizen(by birth) and it took me 3 years 8 months and 24 days to get a visa for my wife to come live in the US
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| 14:22 | <highvoltage> prpplague: wow, that's rediculous!
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| 14:22 | <prpplague> indeed
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| 14:23 | <highvoltage> I thought that being married to someone who's a US citizen kind of automatically gives you some form of residency and that you should be able to enter and exit the country quite easily
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| 14:23 | <prpplague> highvoltage: nope, just gives you the chance to apply
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| 14:24 | highvoltage: no guarantee that you will be approved
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| 15:07 | <alkisg> How can I discard a bzr push done by someone else? pull / revert / push?
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| 15:08 | (the "master" tree is in rev. 79, in my local disk I have 78, and I want to discard 79)
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| 15:20 | <reynolds> Can anyone tell me how to diagnose video problems on my clients?
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| 15:26 | <alkisg> Yes, if you stayed more than 3 minutes...
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| 15:33 | <AndyGraybeal> hey guys, i'm wondering if it is possible to 'lock' files if someone has it open. is this a filesystem thing?
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| 15:34 | <thunsucker> AndyGraybeal: what are you trying to accomplish?
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| 15:34 | AndyGraybeal: that is a very generic error
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| 15:34 | AndyGraybeal: i mean question
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| 15:35 | <AndyGraybeal> well, if i have two people editing files, i don't want them to edit the same file and overwrite each others edits.
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| 15:35 | like.. for instance.. in windows, if two people open a file, the first person is allowed to edit it and the second person is forced into a read-only document.
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| 15:36 | <thunsucker> AndyGraybeal: by default the filesystem will give the first user who opens it, read/write rights, and the 2nd user who tries to open (depending on the program) no rights or read only
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| 15:36 | <AndyGraybeal> well, we just tried it in openoffice word processor and it didn't lock the file. :( it's openoffice 2.4 so maybe that's the reason.
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| 15:36 | <thunsucker> AndyGraybeal: do you have 2 users editing the same file or are you just nervous?
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| 15:37 | <AndyGraybeal> thunsucker: well, it can be a possiblity. we have people who for instance put inventory into spreadsheets each month.
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| 15:37 | i know, that this should be in a dtabase.. but i'm not there yet.
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| 15:37 | <thunsucker> AndyGraybeal: do a test if you are worried about it
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| 15:37 | otavio has quit IRC | |
| 15:38 | <AndyGraybeal> well i did.. that's the thing, i opened a file first, edited it and then my friend opened it and edited it.. i saved it... then he saved it and his changes stuck.
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| 15:38 | <thunsucker> AndyGraybeal: typically what happens in excel (microsoft or OO versions) 2 users can edit it, whoever saves first gets it written to the file, then when the 2nd user saves their version gets updated
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| 15:38 | AndyGraybeal: thats normal operation
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| 15:38 | AndyGraybeal: in that case, both of your changes should be there
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| 15:39 | <AndyGraybeal> well, no he overwrote my changes.
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| 15:39 | <thunsucker> AndyGraybeal: is it a shared workbook?
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| 15:39 | AndyGraybeal: when he saved, it should have showed him your changes
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| 15:40 | <AndyGraybeal> oh well, we tried a 'word processor' document this time.
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| 15:40 | we'll try an excel document
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| 15:40 | er spreadsheet i mean
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| 15:40 | <thunsucker> AndyGraybeal: but remember those type of settings are program specific
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| 15:41 | <AndyGraybeal> thunsucker: okay i'll have to ponder this.
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| 15:41 | thank you for your time.
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| 15:41 | <thunsucker> AndyGraybeal: search it on google
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| 15:41 | AndyGraybeal: and upgrade your OO
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| 15:41 | <AndyGraybeal> yewa, i did for a while.. and i coudln't really find anything - yea.. that'sx upgradeing is on my list....
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| 15:47 | <AndyGraybeal> hah.. yea.. openoffice 3.1 introduced a file locking mechanism.
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| 15:51 | <thunsucker> AndyGraybeal: well there you go
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| 15:52 | <alkisg> stgraber: whenever you have some time, please take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/505916 wrt http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/1383
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| 16:34 | <Gadi1> alkisg: perhaps we can change it to a non-blank client ID?
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| 16:35 | * Gadi1 has been pushing for: LTSP-$arch as client ID forever now | |
| 16:35 | <Gadi1> :)
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| 16:35 | <alkisg> Gadi1: it defaults to a non-blank id, it uses some bytes from arp
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| 16:35 | I don't know why stgraber had problems with that
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| 16:35 | <Gadi1> do you mind if we make it LTSP-i386?
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| 16:36 | * Gadi1 likes to use the VCI to distinguish between LTSP clients and PC clients | |
| 16:36 | <alkisg> Of course not - but maybe it would be better to use "Linux ipconfig' or something to make it easier for dhcpd.conf?
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| 16:36 | Ah
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| 16:37 | * Gadi1 typically winds up hacking that in himself | |
| 16:37 | <Gadi1> :)
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| 16:37 | would be nice to not remember
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| 16:37 | <alkisg> Well in any case I don't mind at all, I'm using dnsmasq in a way that it works with all the possible scenaria - I was just trying to help with the bug...
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| 16:37 | <Gadi1> ah
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| 16:37 | well, let me ask in the bug if he can try it with a non-blank VCI
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| 16:38 | <alkisg> I think stgraber should confirm that it works in his environment, though, as he was the one that inserted that -c '' there
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| 16:38 | * alkisg had put a configurable clientid in the first place | |
| 16:38 | etyack has quit IRC | |
| 16:38 | <alkisg> So if we reverted r1383, we'd have a configurable VCI from the kernel command line...
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| 16:39 | (that defaults to the arp that udhcpc uses by default)
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| 16:40 | <Gadi1> ah - he says it causes multiple leases
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| 16:40 | (in his commit)
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| 16:40 | <alkisg> I don't see why it would, though
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| 16:40 | * Gadi1 usually puts a max-lease-time of 1 second on PXE leases | |
| 16:41 | <Gadi1> so, I don't have that issue
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| 16:41 | <vagrantc> 1 second?
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| 16:41 | <Gadi1> the first lease issued by PXE is disposable
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| 16:41 | the second in the initramfs is the one that should last
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| 16:41 | <alkisg> So e.g. if stgraber put PXEClient as the VCI, that would make the dhcp server use only one lease?
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| 16:42 | <vagrantc> but i've had kernel/initramfs downloads take longer than 1 second.
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| 16:43 | <Gadi1> vagrantc: right, 1 second is in the noise
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| 16:43 | Faithful has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:43 | <vagrantc> ?
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| 16:44 | and if you're presenting a pxe menu...
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| 16:45 | <alkisg> I still think we should keep it configurable though
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| 16:45 | <Gadi1> vagrantc: right, it is not the correct approach
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| 16:45 | <alkisg> E.g. if someone dual boots windows/linux, he'd use MSFT5.0 for the VCI
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| 16:46 | <vagrantc> is this the "every boot uses two DHCP leases" issue?
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| 16:46 | <alkisg> No it's the opposite
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| 16:46 | <vagrantc> ?
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| 16:46 | <Gadi1> it is related
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| 16:46 | <vagrantc> you actually want two different leases?
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| 16:46 | <alkisg> stgraber put -c '' to solve that issue, and someone complains that it isn't working with a windows dhcp server now
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| 16:47 | <Gadi1> no, you want the same lease
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| 16:47 | <vagrantc> in the udhcpc initramfs script?
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| 16:47 | <alkisg> Yeah
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| 16:47 | <vagrantc> why not use -c 'ltsp' or some such?
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| 16:47 | <Gadi1> right - I feel like we're playing who's on first
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| 16:47 | <alkisg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/505916
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| 16:47 | <Gadi1> :)
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| 16:47 | "I don't know" -> "third base"
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| 16:49 | * Gadi1 wonders what happens when you use PXEClient | |
| 16:49 | <Gadi1> :)
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| 16:49 | anyhow, the server should be configured to hand out the same lease to the same MAC
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| 16:50 | <alkisg> Well if we reverted r1383, we could put "BOOTPROMPT_OPTIONS="clientid='whatever'"
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| 16:50 | <alkisg> stgraber could put '' there, Gadi could put ltsp-i386, I could put MSFT5.0...
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| 16:50 | or PXEClient or whatever...
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| 16:50 | <Gadi1> but, I think stgraber found that if the VCI changed it would hand out 2
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| 16:51 | alkisg: I'm all for that
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| 16:52 | ooh... if I use eval in ltsp-update-image, we could put: clientid=ltsp-\$ARCH
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| 16:52 | ;)
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| 16:52 | <alkisg> Heh :)
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| 16:52 | I think the new syslinux has support for autodetecting i386/amd64 and doing some stuff for it
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| 16:53 | We should look at what it offers
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| 16:53 | <Gadi1> yeah - well I actually only liked having arch back in the NFS days when weneeded to specify root-path
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| 16:54 | because then you could say: /opt/ltsp/i386 if ltsp-i386
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| 16:54 | etc
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| 16:54 | but, now we don't need that
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| 16:54 | so, we could just do "LTSP"
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| 16:55 | <alkisg> Well you could specify different filenames now, for lts.conf
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| 16:56 | (btw, for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/526528 I'm thinking that an lts_conf=path kernel parameter wouldn't hurt)
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| 16:57 | (but I'm also wondering if it would make sense, if we're to switch to an http transferred lts.conf anyway... as the client would send all its info as parameters in that case, and the server would answer appropriately)
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| 16:59 | <Gadi1> alkisg: you mean ala ltsp-cluster?
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| 16:59 | <alkisg> Yeah
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| 16:59 | <Gadi1> or just something similar to ltsp-cluster?
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| 17:00 | <alkisg> I thought about a simple python implementation as a web server in a different port, and *then* I saw that ltsp-cluster also uses http :)
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| 17:00 | <Gadi1> ah
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| 17:00 | <alkisg> But I haven't looked at how it's implemented, i.e. if it could be used even without ltsp-cluster
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| 17:00 | <Gadi1> the only negative (which is not really a negative but may be a positive) is the use of a database, because it introduces another layer
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| 17:01 | <alkisg> I.e. the client would send a "wget http://server-ip:port/mac=value&arch=value&ram=value&etc=etc"
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| 17:01 | <Gadi1> right
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| 17:01 | thats what ltsp-cluster does
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| 17:01 | <alkisg> and the server, with a SimpleHTTPServer (=python object) would answer with a *shell sourcable* lts.conf
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| 17:01 | No more getltscfg
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| 17:01 | <Gadi1> but rather than just retrieve env vars, is creates a cached lts.conf file
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| 17:01 | right
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| 17:02 | I like your idea better
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| 17:02 | move getltscfg server side
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| 17:02 | <alkisg> That way you wouldn't need apache or a database on the server
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| 17:02 | <Gadi1> so-to-speak
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| 17:02 | <alkisg> Right. But it would be python scripts, and the admin could even put his own code there
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| 17:02 | E.g. "LTSP_FATCLIENT=true if RAM > 333 MB"
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| 17:03 | <Gadi1> you would still want to have a conf file
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| 17:03 | ah
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| 17:03 | <alkisg> I'm thinking something like /etc/grub.d
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| 17:03 | (or ltsp_config.d, but server-side)
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| 17:04 | <Gadi1> it's still a config file
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| 17:04 | <alkisg> Conffiles in /etc/ltsp_config.d or something like that, where the admin can modify them or put his own
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| 17:04 | <Gadi1> just a fancier format
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| 17:04 | <alkisg> Sure, but it can also contain code, unlike the current lts.conf
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| 17:04 | <Gadi1> right
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| 17:04 | * Gadi1 kinda likes being able to have a single file | |
| 17:04 | <vagrantc> you can easily write a hook to do that now
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| 17:05 | <alkisg> vagrantc: sure, but we're diverting too much
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| 17:05 | <Gadi1> but it would be nice to have "rule files" as well
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| 17:05 | that override static conf
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| 17:05 | <alkisg> It'd be better if it shared the same client code as ltsp cluster, for example
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| 17:05 | <vagrantc> from initramfs: wget http://server/blah/blah/blah -O ${rootmnt}/usr/share/ltsp/ltsp_config.d/initramfs-auto
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| 17:05 | <alkisg> Gadi1: a static file could be /etc/ltsp_config.d/010-static-file.conf
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| 17:05 | <Gadi1> alkisg: well, I recently made ltsp-cluster's stuff configurable for that
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| 17:05 | <alkisg> Just plain variable declarations, with no code at all
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| 17:06 | <Gadi1> alkisg: right
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| 17:06 | that sounds great
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| 17:06 | <vagrantc> or not...
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| 17:06 | <alkisg> (named lts.conf to preserve some of the current documentation)
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| 17:06 | <vagrantc> ltsp_config.d allows code or plain variables. whatever good or bad ideas you care to implement...
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| 17:07 | <Gadi1> vagrantc: right, but it is nice for the thinking to be done on the server rather than the chroot
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| 17:07 | <alkisg> vagrantc: ok, but would you also like to see code upstream for the server parts as well?
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| 17:07 | <vagrantc> Gadi1: so write code in ltsp_config.d that gets values from the server.
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| 17:07 | <Gadi1> vagrantc: don't have to - ltsp-cluster is already in there
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| 17:07 | :)
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| 17:08 | or we can refactor ltsp-cluster's client code
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| 17:08 | either way - thats a detail
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| 17:08 | * vagrantc disappears | |
| 17:08 | <Gadi1> but even in today's code, you can configure the server and the page that ltsp-cluster points to
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| 17:08 | <alkisg> vagrantc: e.g. I want to provide LDM_USERNAME=xxx and LDM_PASSWORD=yyy for a specific client at a specific time. I wouldn't want *all* of those usernames/passwords reaching *all* the clients, so I'd like that desision on the server
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| 17:09 | <Gadi1> so, you can start playing with that now
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| 17:09 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so have it.
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| 17:09 | <Gadi1> alkisg: vagrantc is agreeing with you in a disagreeable kinda way
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| 17:09 | :)
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| 17:09 | <alkisg> Heh :)
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| 17:09 | <Gadi1> you are arguing semantics
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| 17:09 | * vagrantc disappears | |
| 17:10 | <Gadi1> how *does* he disappear like that?
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| 17:10 | ;)
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| 17:10 | <vagrantc> i guess i'm just saying it's already feasible without redesigning anything
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| 17:10 | <AndyGraybeal> greetings Gadi1 , thanks again for all the help this morning.
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| 17:10 | * vagrantc disappears | |
| 17:10 | <alkisg> Nah, the other time he was trying to disappear it took him about 50 minutes :)
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| 17:10 | <Gadi1> vagrantc: except for coding the whole server piece
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| 17:10 | <vagrantc> Gadi1: details! bah!
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| 17:10 | <Gadi1> and the points at which the server is contacted
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| 17:10 | :P
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| 17:11 | AndyGraybeal: no problemo
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| 17:11 | er, problema
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| 17:11 | mea culpa
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| 17:11 | AndyGraybeal: did you get it sorted out?
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| 17:12 | are you scanning inappropriate things yet?
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| 17:14 | <AndyGraybeal> i'm gonna try and sell that dell 2335dn and get something that supports linux... we won't be scanning invoices for a while in the m eantime.
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| 17:14 | maybe i'll get a windows box to do the scanning for now.
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| 17:15 | <Gadi1> AndyGraybeal: do you have any copiers with network scanning capabilities?
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| 17:15 | * Gadi1 has set that up a bunch of times | |
| 17:15 | <AndyGraybeal> yes, that's what this is.. the multifunction machine
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| 17:15 | <Gadi1> no, I mean like a big copier
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| 17:15 | <AndyGraybeal> aah no no
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| 17:16 | what brand?
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| 17:16 | <Gadi1> the kind you lease
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| 17:16 | what we use to refer to as a Xerox machine
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| 17:16 | :)
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| 17:16 | <AndyGraybeal> we paid like $400 for this; it's nothign like what your talking about
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| 17:16 | <Gadi1> many of those have network ports and LCD screens these days
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| 17:16 | <AndyGraybeal> that's pretty awesome. what brand machine is it?
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| 17:16 | <Gadi1> and you can have them scan to an ftp server or send as an email
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| 17:17 | I dunno - Ive set up a bunch of various brands
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| 17:17 | cant remember offhand
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| 17:17 | <Gadi1> Im sure Xerox makes some
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| 17:17 | :)
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| 17:17 | <AndyGraybeal> yea, that's cool... i co-own a small business, so we get pretty much the cheapeast thing we can (not everything here is my choice)
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| 17:18 | <Gadi1> right - I take it you're not in a business that makes lots of copies
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| 17:18 | :)
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| 17:18 | <AndyGraybeal> :)
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| 17:18 | yea, we make more burritos than copies, enchiladas, stuff like that.
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| 17:18 | ;)
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| 17:19 | <Gadi1> yum
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| 17:19 | <AndyGraybeal> tacos, rice and beans :)
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| 17:19 | <Gadi1> as long as they dont taste like paper
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| 17:19 | :)
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| 17:19 | <AndyGraybeal> we're still in business so people must like it :)
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| 17:19 | <Gadi1> so, put your scanner on the server and run windows in a VM
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| 17:19 | and tell people to get off their butts and walk to the scanner
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| 17:19 | :)
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| 17:19 | lol
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| 17:19 | <AndyGraybeal> lols, it's upstairs :)
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| 17:20 | naw but your right... wijndows can actually network to the scanner.
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| 17:20 | <Gadi1> put a taco station next to the scanner ;)
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| 17:20 | <AndyGraybeal> so i can run a windows in vm, then network to it from that.
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| 17:21 | i'm going to be bald.
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| 17:21 | <Gadi1> yeah, but you still need to walk to put the paper in
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| 17:21 | :P
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| 17:22 | <AndyGraybeal> i need to get back to focusing on things.
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| 17:22 | <Gadi1> bon appetite
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| 17:22 | :)
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