IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 8 November 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:38 | <muppis> I mounted hacked Lacie 2Big via nfs to server. Trying to mount those directories to nfs shared homes, but mkdir fails. Any hint?
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| 02:40 | mount --bind fails, symlink point to local directory, not to servers one.
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| 03:50 | <muppis> Ok, getting forward. Can put mounting nfs to thin's fstab as usually or is there any special place for this?
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| 03:53 | <alkisg> muppis: NFS_HOME=server:/dir in lts.conf
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| 03:54 | ..and NFS_HOME_OPTIONS
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| 03:54 | (if your ltsp version is recent enough)
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| 03:55 | <Trixboxer> alkisg: hi mate
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| 03:55 | <alkisg> Good morning
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| 03:55 | <Trixboxer> good afternoon
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| 03:55 | <muppis> alkisg, but does that mount for home dir?
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| 03:56 | <alkisg> muppis: yes, you want some other dir?
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| 03:56 | <muppis> Yes.
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| 03:56 | <alkisg> I'm not sure if the existing fstab in the chroot is respected or if regenerated on each boot on the fly
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| 03:56 | Try it, and if it doesn't work, then you'd need to add some startup script
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| 03:57 | <muppis> At least, file already exist. I'll try.
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| 03:57 | <alkisg> muppis: at least on Debian/Ubuntu, I think it's regenerated:
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| 03:57 | ltsp-trunk/client/initscripts/ltsp-init-common: echo "/dev/root / rootfs defaults 0 0" > /etc/fstab
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| 03:58 | So you'd need to add or modify a startup script..
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| 03:58 | <muppis> Ok, thanks.
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| 04:01 | <arthurl> hi
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| 04:01 | I can't find references to configure-x.sh
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| 04:01 | is this deprecated ?
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| 04:03 | <alkisg> arthurl: /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/configure-x.sh
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| 04:03 | The CONFIGURE_X=True lts.conf directive is deprecated, but not the shell script which automatically handles that now
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| 04:04 | <arthurl> alkisg, I can't get X_OPTION_01 to work...
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| 04:04 | alkisg, I want to force AccelMethod to xaa
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| 04:04 | <alkisg> What do you want to put there?
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| 04:04 | Try X_OPTION_01='"AccelMethod" "XAA"'
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| 04:05 | <alkisg> If that doesn't work, then backslashes would be needed...
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| 04:05 | !lts.conf
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| 04:05 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "lts.conf" :: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
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| 04:05 | <arthurl> alkisg, have tried that already
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| 04:06 | <alkisg> Another example there ^^^
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| 04:06 | <arthurl> am using ltsp-cluster if that makes a difference
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| 04:06 | <alkisg> So what do you get int xorg.conf now?
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| 04:06 | No idea about cluster, but check if your client xorg.conf contains what you put there
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| 04:06 | <arthurl> i don't get any xorg.conf
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| 04:07 | <alkisg> Try also adding CONFIGURE_X=True, but if that's needed, then it's a bug because it should happen automatically
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| 04:07 | <arthurl> alkisg, added that too, with no effect!
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| 04:08 | <alkisg> And maybe -cluster uses some different method to send lts.conf parameters, I've never used that but I think it's using something web-based...
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| 04:09 | <arthurl> alkisg, am adding the properties in the web interface which gets downloaded in /var/cache/getltscfg-cluster/lts.conf
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| 04:09 | <alkisg> So with getltscfg[-cluster?] -a in the client, do you see the setting?
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| 04:10 | <arthurl> yes
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| 04:11 | <alkisg> What if you put X_MODE_0=<the mode you're already using> ? Are you getting a xorg.conf then?
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| 04:12 | <arthurl> let me try that
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| 04:14 | still no xorg.conf!
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| 04:14 | <alkisg> Where are you looking for a xorg.conf?
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| 04:15 | Try ps -ef | grep -i xorg on the client...
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| 04:15 | <arthurl> /etc/X11/
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| 04:15 | <alkisg> I don't think it gets put there, I think it goes in /var/run
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| 04:15 | <arthurl> wow
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| 04:15 | OK.
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| 04:15 | <alkisg> Try the ps command above
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| 04:15 | <arthurl> /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf
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| 04:15 | got it
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| 04:16 | <alkisg> OK, so now check again without X_MODE_0
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| 04:16 | ...and paste the X_OPTION_01 line that gets there
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| 04:16 | <arthurl> do you know if caps on XAA matters?
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| 04:22 | <alkisg> No idea, I don't think so
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| 04:29 | <alkisg> Someone had posted a link where Finland LTSP installations showed up in a google map... anyone remembers the link?
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| 04:34 | <elias_a> alkisg: Here: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=fi&msa=0&msid=108602642792299127542.00047c8e079f3cf3e9aa5&z=6
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| 04:34 | "I made this!" ;-)
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| 04:34 | With a lot of help from my friends :)
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| 04:34 | <alkisg> Thank you elias_a!
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| 04:34 | I think we'll make one for Greece, too
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| 04:35 | <elias_a> alkisg: Please do that!
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| 04:35 | <alkisg> Are you yourself putting all the pins? Or are the schools allowed to put their own?
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| 04:35 | <elias_a> alkisg: The schools may put their own.
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| 04:35 | <alkisg> Perfect!
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| 04:35 | <elias_a> Actually - we could make a pan-European map :)
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| 04:37 | <alkisg> Good idea! Could you provide a small how-to?
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| 04:38 | <elias_a> alkisg: It is quite simple - you just create a map with some pointed entries and tell the folks to follow the same scheme.
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| 04:38 | I did have a mailing list that helped promoting.
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| 04:39 | * alkisg needs to go for a while, will read the backlogs later, thank you elias_a, I'll work on that soon! | |
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| 08:49 | <cliebow> sbalneav: How you doing??
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| 08:49 | <rickogden> hi everyone
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| 08:50 | for some reason, there is a huge lag when people are typing into the terminal when using LTSP. Has anyone come across this?
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| 08:51 | <robehend1> rickogden: Never came across that, myself.
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| 08:52 | <rickogden> it's strange, the resources are fine... but it's becoming near unusable when a large number of people are on it
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| 08:52 | <robehend1> rickogden: Have you checked the LTSP server's hard disk? I've found that to be a bottleneck before
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| 08:52 | <rickogden> I haven't, I'll do an IO/top
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| 08:53 | for some reason this only happens on LTSP though, if they use NX it's fine
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| 08:53 | <robehend1> rickogden: Weird. You'd think it be the same between both..
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| 08:53 | <rickogden> yeah exactly
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| 08:55 | <robehend1> rickogden: Is it only in the terminal, or all other programs as well
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| 08:56 | <rickogden> it only seems to be terminal
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| 08:56 | and it's typing
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| 08:57 | <robehend1> rickogden: odd.
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| 09:02 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 09:03 | <robehend1> Mornin
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| 09:03 | Say, do I have any fellow K-12 Educators in here, who wouldnt mind me picking their brains a bit?
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| 09:18 | <mgariepy> morning everyone
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| 09:21 | <cliebow> heay Mark!
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| 09:22 | sbalneav!!!!!
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| 10:12 | <highvoltage> morning cliebow :)
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| 10:17 | <cliebow> hi..tou get back alright Jonathan?
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| 10:18 | morning btw!
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| 10:22 | <highvoltage> yep, safe and sound, had a good trip back
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| 10:22 | saw the snow get gradually more on the way back :)
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| 10:22 | everything good there?
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| 10:23 | <cliebow> yeah pretty good! piles of rain
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| 10:23 | and wind
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| 12:08 | <crazed> what'st he best way to handle multiple ltsp servers?
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| 12:08 | i see there's som ldm clustering, is that the route i should look into?
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| 12:10 | <highvoltage> crazed: ltsp-cluster is the way to go if you really want to go large scale
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| 12:17 | <Blinny> Ubuntu 8.04 Question - trying to run firefox as another user so I can muck around with their settings. Keep getting the "Cannot open display: localhost:17.0" message. How can I construct the command (sudo, su, xhost?) such that the app shows on my current TC display?
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| 12:20 | <Gadi> xhost +; su <username> -c firefox
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| 12:20 | should work
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| 12:25 | <Blinny> Bully. Cheers Gadi, thank you.
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| 12:25 | <Gadi> bully bully
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| 12:25 | my pleasure
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| 12:26 | <Blinny> Hrm. No love, same error. I'll read into xhost a bit.
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| 12:26 | And I'm just typing this into a standard 'ol gnome-terminal, yes?
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| 12:27 | <Gadi> yup
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| 12:27 | but, maybe try:
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| 12:27 | <Blinny> Bummer!
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| 12:27 | <Gadi> su -c 'DISPLAY=<thinclientIP>:7 firefox'
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| 12:27 | er
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| 12:27 | sorry
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| 12:28 | su <username> -c 'DISPLAY=<thinclientIP>:7 firefox'
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| 12:30 | <Blinny> That makes more sense. Just a local ENV. But still no love. $ xhost +; su $USERNAME -c 'DISPLAY=192.168.1.177:7 firefox' where .1.177 is my TC's IP yes?
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| 12:30 | <Gadi> yeah
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| 12:31 | try: DISPLAY=192.168.1.177:7 xhost +
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| 12:31 | and then repeat the su command
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| 12:31 | <Blinny> xhost: unable to open display "192.168.1.177:7"
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| 12:31 | <AndyGraybeal> what if i would like to cluster simply for high-availability (if one machin fails, the other own takes over)?
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| 12:32 | <Gadi> is LDM running on screen 7?
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| 12:33 | <Blinny> Yeh - ctrl+alt+f7 gives me my display.
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| 12:38 | <Gadi> Blinny: the issue seems to be in the SSH X forwarding - see: http://docstore.mik.ua/orelly/networking_2ndEd/ssh/ch09_03.htm
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| 12:39 | Blinny: if the user has access to your ~/.Xauthority, you could do:
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| 12:40 | su <username> -c 'XAUTHORITY=~<you>/.Xauthority firefox'
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| 12:47 | <Blinny> TY ..reading..
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| 12:48 | I guess I could script a chmod in there
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| 12:50 | Ok right on. chmod'ing my home dir and .Xauthority does that trick.
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| 12:50 | <alkisg> Blinny: alternatively, ssh -X otheruser@localhost firefox ?
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| 12:51 | <Gadi> Blinny: keep in mind, by chmod'ing, you weaken your security, so you may want to change it back when you are done
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| 12:51 | :)
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| 12:51 | <Gadi> ah, alkisg bring up a very good point
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| 12:51 | :)
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| 12:51 | as usual
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| 12:51 | <highvoltage> Gadi: I hate those web app install guides that start off with "Step 1: chmod 777 * -R"
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| 12:51 | <Gadi> highvoltage: hehe
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| 12:52 | * highvoltage know knows what Gadi's "hehe" sounds like | |
| 12:52 | <highvoltage> *now knows
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| 12:52 | <Blinny> Dig the security issue
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| 12:53 | * Gadi realizes his "hehe" prolly keeps him out of the spy business | |
| 12:53 | <crazed> hm how do you get dual monitor support in ltsp5?
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| 12:53 | <cliebow> Gadi: ever come across error 12 in openldap?
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| 12:54 | <highvoltage> all my beeping devices keeps me out of the spy business :-/
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| 12:54 | <Gadi> oh no! not error 12!
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| 12:54 | anything but error 12!
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| 12:54 | <cliebow> never seen it before
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| 12:54 | <Gadi> actually, no - cant say that I have
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| 12:54 | :)
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| 12:55 | <cliebow> control unavailable in context..whatever that means
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| 12:55 | * cliebow cliebow hears Gadi giggle 8~) | |
| 12:55 | <Blinny> alkisg: Kickass.
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| 12:55 | Thank you Gadi, thank you alkisg
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| 12:57 | <Gadi> crazed: what driver?
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| 12:57 | cliebow: what command did u execute to get that error
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| 12:58 | <alkisg> Blinny: and if sometime you don't have the other user's password but you have root access, you can just copy your ssh id to his ~/.ssh
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| 12:58 | <crazed> Gadi: the thin clients are running nvidia
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| 12:58 | <cliebow> it is a query from something called papercut..to sync accounts fro print services
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| 12:58 | <crazed> ah this is weird.. seems the default config in ubuntu has the thin client doing all the work
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| 12:58 | <Gadi> crazed: you prolly only need to specify X_VIRTUAL in lts.conf
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| 12:59 | if it is not automagic
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| 12:59 | <crazed> i just realized my bash prompts and various commands were running locally and not on the ltsp server
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| 13:00 | how do i change that? sorry if these are noob questions.. i got the task of migrating from our old ubuntu 7.04 system to a brand new one
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| 13:01 | <Gadi> crazed: u built a regular chroot or a fat client chroot?
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| 13:02 | <crazed> should be a regular chroot
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| 13:02 | i used ltsp-build-image --arch=i386
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| 13:03 | ltsp-build-client *
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| 13:03 | <Gadi> then, your gnome terminal should be on the server
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| 13:03 | <crazed> but the output is from the thin client
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| 13:03 | because it's only showing 512mb of ram vs 16gb
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| 13:03 | <Gadi> when you type "free"?
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| 13:03 | <crazed> yes
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| 13:04 | <Gadi> that is odd
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| 13:04 | you are not in an ltsp-localapps xterm, are you?
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| 13:04 | <crazed> umm
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| 13:04 | how can i verify i'm not
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| 13:05 | <Gadi> launch a new gnome terminal from the applications meny
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| 13:05 | *menu
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| 13:05 | <crazed> yeah it's definitely from the thin client
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| 13:05 | the hostname even returns the ws139 hostname
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| 13:05 | rather than the servers
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| 13:06 | this would explain why somethings were running slowly hm
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| 13:06 | <Gadi> you didnt install ubuntu-desktop in the chroot, did you?
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| 13:06 | <alkisg> crazed: on the thin client, cat /etc/ltsp_fat_chroot
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| 13:06 | Is there such a file?
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| 13:07 | (or on the server, /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp_fat_chroot
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| 13:08 | <crazed> $ cat /etc/ltsp_chroot
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| 13:08 | LTSP_CHROOT=/opt/ltsp/i386
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| 13:08 | <alkisg> No, fat chroot
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| 13:08 | <crazed> there's no ltsp_fat_chroot though
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| 13:08 | <alkisg> OK, then there's something *wrong* with your setup
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| 13:08 | You didn't install fat clients, and installing ubuntu-desktop wouldn't have caused local logins...
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| 13:09 | <crazed> hm
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| 13:09 | <alkisg> Are you using gdm with some local user?
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| 13:09 | <crazed> i'm using gdm
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| 13:09 | and the user only exists on the server in the chroot
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| 13:09 | <alkisg> OK, that's your first problem :)
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| 13:09 | LTSP doesn't work that way.
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| 13:09 | <crazed> oh?
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| 13:09 | <alkisg> You need the default display manager, LDM
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| 13:10 | <crazed> it's installed
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| 13:10 | <alkisg> ...and you don't need any users on the chroot
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| 13:10 | If you login with ldm, you login to the serer
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| 13:10 | *server
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| 13:10 | <crazed> they only exist on the server then?
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| 13:10 | ah this makes sense
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| 13:10 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 13:10 | <crazed> when i first booted, it must have been ldm
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| 13:10 | because the server user i had worked, but i had no wm installed at the time
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| 13:10 | <alkisg> How did you install gdm? It doesn't get installed by default...
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| 13:10 | <crazed> then i installed ubuntu-desktop and gdm was changed to the default
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| 13:10 | <alkisg> You need a WM at the server, not on the chroot
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| 13:11 | So start again from scratch, it'll be easier
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| 13:11 | <crazed> just the chroot though right?
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| 13:11 | i don't need to reinstall the server?
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| 13:11 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 13:11 | No
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| 13:11 | <crazed> good
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| 13:12 | <crazed> so, i need the wm on the server, not in the chroot?
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| 13:12 | <alkisg> Right
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| 13:12 | <crazed> installing ubuntu-desktop won't make gdm the default?
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| 13:12 | <alkisg> (unless you want to use fat clients, which is a different story)
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| 13:13 | <crazed> nah the thin clients aren't powerful enough for that
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| 13:13 | <alkisg> It'll make gdm the default for your server, but the chroot won't be affected
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| 13:13 | <crazed> ah! oka
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| 13:13 | y
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| 13:13 | things are making more sense now
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| 13:21 | <crazed> this is random and might not be possible, but how would you use nx to handle drawing X and stuff. basically i want server side compression before sending it down to the thin clients
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| 13:21 | <Blinny> crazed: Over a LAN? At what cost?
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| 13:21 | <crazed> yes over a lan
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| 13:22 | <Blinny> Are you that starved for bandwidth?
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| 13:22 | <crazed> no
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| 13:22 | i guess not
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| 13:23 | i just want things to be a fast/responsive as possible
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| 13:23 | <Blinny> Then you don't want nx.
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| 13:23 | Get your TCs running things directly on the server. You'll be pleased.
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| 13:23 | <crazed> right now it looks like i'm running everything on the tc
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| 13:24 | should i run only certain applications locally?
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| 13:24 | like web browsers
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| 13:24 | <Blinny> Right. Just stick to the defaults (everything on server), get that working, and then start experimenting.
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| 13:24 | Depends on your TC hardware and server environment.
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| 13:25 | <crazed> server's pretty nice, TC hardware is.. like 512mb ram and 1ghz amd athlons
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| 13:25 | <Blinny> I have 22 users on my local machine right now. 5-minute load is .5 I have no reason to go through the localapps hoops so I can't give a lot of info about that initiative.
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| 13:25 | <crazed> what's your machine look like specs wise
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| 13:26 | <Blinny> dual-proc quad-core machine, 8GB RAM with SCSI RAID-1 / and RAID-5 /home
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| 13:26 | It's brilliant.
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| 13:44 | <crazed> nice
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| 13:44 | i got dual quad core with 16gb of ram
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| 13:44 | raid 1, and nfs for home
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| 13:45 | <mnemoc> hi, where does tftpd-hpa log in ubuntu? (10.10)
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| 13:46 | <crazed> /var/log/daemon.log i believe
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| 13:46 | <mnemoc> crazed: yes! thanks :)
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| 13:51 | tftpd-hpa doesn't follow symlinks, how anoying :<
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| 13:53 | <alkisg> mnemoc: there's an option to allow that
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| 13:53 | It's not enabled by default for security reasons
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| 13:54 | <mnemoc> ic
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| 13:55 | <Blinny> crazed: With the obvious caveat of depending on how many TCs you plan to run, that server sounds like it should handle quite a bit.
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| 13:55 | <crazed> good to hear
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| 13:56 | probably about 10-20 per ltsp
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| 14:38 | <Gadi> it follows symlinks
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| 14:38 | just need to be relative to the root
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| 14:39 | <mnemoc> ifcpu64.c32 -> /usr/lib/syslinux/ifcpu64.c32 was not been seen, not even when using --permissive instead of --secure
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| 14:40 | I had to copy it to /var/lib/tftpboot directly
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| 14:40 | <Gadi> of course it isnt - because that's not relative
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| 14:40 | <mnemoc> -vv
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| 14:40 | <Gadi> but you could do: foo -> bar
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| 14:40 | or foo -> ../bar
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| 14:41 | <Gadi> as long as foo and bar are in the same secured tftp root
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| 14:41 | <mnemoc> so ../../../usr/lib/syslinux/ifcpu64.c32 would have passed?
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| 14:41 | ok
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| 14:41 | <Gadi> if /var/lib/tftpboot is the tftp root
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| 14:41 | then, anything under there can be symlinked to
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| 14:41 | if you make the symlink relative
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| 14:41 | because the client will only see /
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| 14:42 | which is what makes it secure
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| 14:42 | <mnemoc> so the symlink is resolved by the client??
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| 14:42 | <Gadi> let's say you have:
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| 14:42 | /var/lib/tftpboot/foo
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| 14:42 | /var/lib/tftpboot/bar
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| 14:42 | /var/lib/tftpboot/bar/baz
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| 14:43 | the client sees:
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| 14:43 | /foo
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| 14:43 | /bar
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| 14:43 | /bar/baz
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| 14:43 | <mnemoc> sure
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| 14:43 | <cliebow> bar/f;y
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| 14:43 | <Gadi> so, baz can be: baz -> ../foo
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| 14:43 | and that works just fine
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| 14:43 | <mnemoc> so the symlink is resolved by the client? or the server is impossible more security that what I want?
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| 14:44 | imposing*
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| 14:44 | <Gadi> but if you have: baz -> /some/unkown/path/outside/the/root
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| 14:44 | then, it cannot see it
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| 14:44 | <mnemoc> i didn't know tftp passes symlinks as symlinks to the client
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| 14:44 | <Gadi> by the client
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| 14:44 | yeah
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| 14:44 | <mnemoc> I gave for granted it was resolved server side
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| 14:45 | <Gadi> the idea is that the client cannot go out of that secure root
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| 14:45 | <mnemoc> so baz -> ../foo will first fetch baz and then fetch foo, which is "wasteful"
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| 14:45 | <Gadi> I don't know that baz is fetched
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| 14:45 | I think it will only feth foo
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| 14:45 | *fetch
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| 14:46 | but, if you had: baz -> /tmp/foo
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| 14:46 | you had better have a: /var/lib/tftpboot/tmp/foo
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| 14:46 | :)
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| 14:50 | <mnemoc> it should follow symlinks regardless where they point as far as the unix permissions allow it, not try to be "over-smart" and fake a chroot
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| 14:50 | * Gadi didn't write it :) | |
| 14:51 | <mnemoc> =)
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| 14:58 | <robehend1> out of curiosity, do I have any other K-12 admins in here?
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| 15:21 | <alkisg> mnemoc: you'd need to remove "--secure" from the tftpd-hpa configuration file
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| 15:21 | This uses a chroot
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| 15:22 | <mnemoc> alkisg: I started getting "Forbidden directory" then
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| 15:23 | no idea what sort of self-castration tftp-hpa does, but the whole path is world readable
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| 15:24 | but i gave up on symlinks, copied over the files and added a line to the script that updates the chroots to keep them up-to-date
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| 15:26 | <alkisg> mnemoc: looks like a tftpd-hpa bug, when you don't use --secure then the client needs to specify the full path (e.g. /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf)
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| 15:27 | From the docs I'd assume it would prepend the TFTP_DIRECTORY by itself...
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| 15:27 | <mnemoc> .oO
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| 15:28 | <alkisg> Hmmm it does check the path though
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| 15:28 | So maybe this behavior is documented somewhere
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| 15:28 | (i.e. it doesn't allow reading stuff outside of the TFTP_DIRECTORY)
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| 15:29 | <mnemoc> i understand that restricvtion in webservers where different people writes stuff... but tftp? that's root-only realm
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| 15:29 | <alkisg> symlinks work fine though
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| 15:29 | mnemoc: imagine someone getting your /etc/passwd...
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| 15:30 | <mnemoc> only if root puts a symlink to /etc/passwd there
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| 15:30 | in that case, stupid root deserves the punishment
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| 15:31 | <alkisg> I thought you were objecting to the directory checking... sure, tftpd-hpa does directory checking so I don't see any problems with its implementation except for the part where one needs to specify the full path
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| 15:32 | <mnemoc> i'm ranting about the censorship to my absolute symlinks :)
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| 15:32 | <alkisg> (which is probably just a documentation problem, not an implementation problem)
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| 15:33 | <mnemoc> but as i wont write my own tftp, i'll have to accept hpa choices
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| 15:33 | <alkisg> Well, using a chroot gives some additional safety in case an admin does an rsync -av or something without checking for symlinks
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| 15:33 | dnsmasq doesn't use chroots by default
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| 15:35 | Ah, there's the reason for the path thing: "Access to files can, and should, be restricted by invoking tftpd with a list of directories by including pathnames as server program arguments on the command line."
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| 15:36 | <alkisg> ....so if it allows for multiple directories, that's why it uses full paths
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| 15:36 | <mnemoc> .oO
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| 15:39 | <mnemoc> never expected a sort of "unionfs" built-in on tftp-hpa :)
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| 15:42 | <alkisg> Heh, just directory checking when --secure isn't set... it makes sense after going through the docs
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| 16:13 | <crazed> whoops quit wrong channel
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| 21:58 | <crazed> how cna i change the login stuff for ldm
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| 21:58 | er.. how do i use pam_radius_auth with ldm
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| 21:59 | oh it uses the same auth as ssh? if i'm reading this properly
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| 22:05 | another question, currently we have a system that shows available ltsp servers, you select one with the lowest load and it will connect you to that one
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| 22:05 | i have no idea what is controlling this, but would like something similar
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