IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 24 July 2013 (all times are UTC)
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| 08:45 | <der_baer> Hey all(good morning :D) is there a esay way to modify the ldm greeter that you can choose between users (witch is the default behavior in ubuntu for example). I something like a value passed over lts.conf.
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| 09:12 | <Hyperbyte> der_baer, how 'easy' it is depends on how well you can code C and how comfortable you are compiling your own version of ldm.
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| 09:17 | <der_baer> Hyperbyte: mm compiling ldm is not realy an option :D modify bash scriptes would be (I'm a C newbie)
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| 09:19 | Hyperbyte: and it would also be a bit over the top since the reason for my questions are lazy users witch witch are not able to type there usernames in a correct way :D
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| 09:20 | <Hyperbyte> LDM is written in C, sorry.
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| 09:20 | Well, take that back to your users then. Software doesn't support it, modifying it so it does is way beyong your abilities (beyond mine too actually).
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| 09:20 | *beyond
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| 09:20 | :)
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| 09:23 | <der_baer> Hyperbyte: yep, I did that already but its a bit hard to understand for them that lightdm (ubuntu default) and ldm ist diffrent
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| 09:25 | <Fenuks> der_baer: How many users do you have there?
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| 09:28 | <der_baer> Fenuks: at this installation we talk about 4, but they like long usernames such as "geschäftleitung_foo"
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| 09:29 | <Fenuks> ok
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| 09:29 | <der_baer> Fenuks: but they will be more in the future (ub to 10 i guess)
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| 09:30 | <Fenuks> It wount be a problem for the to select. I have over 200 users, I'd like to see them selecting from such a list every time
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| 09:30 | <Hyperbyte> der_baer, shorter usernames?
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| 09:43 | RX bytes:242728850 (231.4 MiB) TX bytes:1035055988677 (963.9 GiB)
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| 09:44 | Interesting how thin client servers have so little incoming data and so incredibly much outgoing. :)
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| 09:44 | <der_baer> Hyperbyte: would be a solution i guess, but they like there long names :D, anyway its not possible so they will have to deal with it
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| 09:44 | <Fenuks> Is that a line from the client?
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| 09:44 | <Hyperbyte> Fenuks, server.
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| 09:45 | I just realised it's bonded interface, so there's more traffic on other interfaces.
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| 09:47 | Yeah, there's more incoming... around 500 GB incoming vs 2 TB outgoing
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| 09:47 | Interesting numbers. :)
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| 09:47 | * Hyperbyte likes | |
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| 11:51 | <mar77i> hmm. I solved all issues, except for the libreoffice problem. it's funny, some users work just fine others take terribly long time
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| 11:51 | and it doesn't seem to matter if $HOME is empty
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| 11:51 | (so it can't be a dotfiles problem)
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| 11:58 | it's really peculiar, because I set up another user test and it just worked...
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| 12:08 | <Hyperbyte> mar77i, "the libreoffice problem"?
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| 12:28 | <mar77i> a reboot on server-side helped
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| 12:28 | I'm doing a lot of things here :)
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| 12:34 | <Hyperbyte> Mmmkay...
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| 13:23 | <mar77i> Hyperbyte: oh maybe I wasn't clear enough about "libreoffice problem" == "taking a terribly long time [to start]"
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| 13:24 | <Hyperbyte> And the reboot fixed it?
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| 13:24 | <mar77i> yes
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| 13:25 | <Hyperbyte> Weird. Next time this happens, check 'ps aux' for any errant LibreOffice processes.
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| 13:25 | <mar77i> yes, it was stuck in some read. but the lack of debug symbols I couldn't figure which file
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| 13:26 | anyway, we're using edubuntu and unity, and the question was if it's possible to limit visibility of programs in dash and the windmill menu (top right)
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| 13:27 | <Hyperbyte> Ooo... I've never used Unity
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| 13:27 | <workingcats> sounds more like a question for #ubuntu
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| 13:28 | <Hyperbyte> Well, I use it everytime I install Ubuntu, but it never takes long until I have it removed.
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| 13:28 | <mar77i> same :)
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| 13:28 | <Hyperbyte> Your users like it though?
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| 13:28 | <mar77i> that's not up for debate
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| 13:29 | Hyperbyte: I don't tell my boss what to do, that's not how things work
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| 13:29 | not that he has any sane measure of what he's doing himself...
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| 13:29 | <Hyperbyte> I'm not trying to debate anything... was just curious how your users responded. I can imagine Unity working for more "common" users.
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| 13:30 | <mar77i> I won't ever hear of any users
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| 13:30 | <Hyperbyte> I do tell my boss what to do by the way. It's an IT manager's job to tell his boss how can best accomplish things. :P
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| 13:31 | <mar77i> my boss just gets mad
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| 13:31 | <workingcats> Hyperbyte, rare, usually its the actual IT people's job to tell the IT manager how to/whether to accomplish thing ;)
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| 13:31 | <mar77i> gets similar behavior patterns when I don't appear to find a problem like me when I watch him do stuff for a minte (usually, less)
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| 13:31 | <Hyperbyte> workingcats, heheh, I work at a small company. :)
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| 13:32 | Well relative small. We keep office size small with lots of automation.
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| 13:32 | *relatively
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| 13:34 | <mar77i> my boss checks if the chmods I set really appear on his screen
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| 13:34 | <workingcats> Hyperbyte, thats my plan too ;)
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| 13:34 | well, we're only 2 technicians, but i feel we shouldnt have to do so much to just keep things up and running
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| 13:35 | especially since we have a few dozen VMs that could do with some OS major version updating hehe
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| 13:35 | <Hyperbyte> :)
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| 14:22 | <wiryono> Hi what is the correct value format for lts.conf TIMEZONE ?
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| 14:22 | is it TIMEZONE=Asia\blabla
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| 14:23 | or TIMEZONE=GMT sthg ?
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| 14:23 | there is lack of example here ...
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| 14:26 | <Hyperbyte> wiryono, standard timezone notation.
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| 14:26 | See /usr/share/zoneinfo/ on your system
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| 14:27 | For example, I use Europe/Amsterdam
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| 14:35 | <wiryono> do I need to put a quote ="Asia/sthg"
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| 14:37 | btw for the LOCALDEV=True I see my printer device when doing lsusb on the client
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| 14:37 | but it doesn't install the driver
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| 14:37 | when I do it from my own computer ( also ubuntu ) it detect automatically the driver ( same printer )
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| 14:38 | my own computer : ubuntu 12.04, ltsp server : ubuntu 12.04 server, ltsp client : ubuntu 12.04
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| 17:49 | <Anivair> afternoon, all. I've got a big job coming up and no idea where to start. Anyone have any experience with remote booting thin clients?
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| 17:49 | I've got a desktop server here, but now management wants people to work from home
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| 17:59 | <brunolambert> Anivair: You can look into NX
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| 17:59 | <Anivair> @brunolambert: NX?
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| 17:59 | like virtual desktops?
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| 18:00 | <brunolambert> it enable users from a different location to connect to the application server
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| 18:00 | <Anivair> my goal is to send the employees home with a thin client that they can boot up there and load to our desktop server, I'm just not sure how to start
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| 18:02 | <brunolambert> LTSP thin client require DHCP to boot. If your users are not on your network, it will not be possible for them to use a thin client
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| 18:02 | They would need a full computer at home to connect with NX.
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| 18:02 | <Anivair> I was afraid of that
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| 18:02 | management is really eager to see this happen. balls.
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| 18:03 | but I can use NX or some remote desktop option to boot them into our desktop server using a computer, yes?
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| 18:03 | <brunolambert> with NX, a full windows will open and they will think they are on their machine, but they will be on your LTSP appliucation server
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| 18:04 | <Anivair> I guess that's my only option, then.
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| 18:04 | thanks
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| 18:06 | last question: any reason I can't run both NX and LTSP on the same server?
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| 18:07 | <brunolambert> a far as I know they can run both on the same server
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| 18:09 | <Anivair> I'll give it a shot
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| 18:13 | If anyone comes up with a way to use the thin clients, let me know, but I understand why it's improbable.
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| 18:30 | <Anivair> @alkisg: to recap I just asked if there was any way to boot thin clients remotely. Management wants people to work from home. I'm guessing there's not. brunolambert suggested NX.
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| 18:32 | just in case you had any thoughts on the subject
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| 18:33 | <imox> hello when I edit my lts.conf? how can I update the image?
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| 18:33 | just with ltsp-update-image?
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| 18:34 | <Anivair> That will do it, though IIRC that is not required anymore.
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| 18:36 | <imox> my lts is in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
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| 18:36 | and I updated my image but I don't have the changes
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| 18:38 | or I have to build a new client?
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| 18:42 | Anivair: do you have eny idea?
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| 18:45 | is someone here ;) ?
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| 18:45 | <Anivair> Looks to me like you may need to ltsp-update-image. what arch are you running?
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| 18:45 | getting the right one built matters 100%
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| 18:45 | (sorry, responses tend to come slowly around here much of the time)
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| 18:47 | <alkisg> Anivair: you can put the nbd image in a usb stick and put them to the thin clients you give your users, if you think that suits you better then nx over their own OS
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| 18:47 | <Anivair> @alkisg: I'll give that a look. Thanks
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| 18:48 | @imox: Last time I did this I edited /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
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| 18:48 | and rebooted
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| 18:48 | sometimes a hard reboot helps a lot
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| 18:48 | if you haven't done one
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| 18:48 | <imox> 32 bit
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| 18:49 | <alkisg> imox: which distribution and which version?
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| 18:49 | <imox> xubuntu 13.04
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| 18:49 | <alkisg> What do you have in lts.conf?
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| 18:49 | !pastebin
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| 18:49 | <ltsp> pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 18:50 | <imox> just [default]
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| 18:50 | LDM_THEME=ubuntu
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| 18:50 | to try if it works
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| 18:52 | at this moment I create my ltsp image I have to wait ^^
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| 18:53 | <vagrantc> rebuilding the image won't do anything if your lts.conf is not included in the image...
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| 18:53 | i.e. rebuilding the image is only needed after changing files in /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 18:53 | <imox> how do I do that?
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| 18:54 | <vagrantc> if all you're doing is editing /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf, it's probably not downloading the correct file for some reason
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| 18:54 | is your LTSP server also your DHCP server?
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| 18:54 | <imox> yes
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| 18:54 | <vagrantc> is there another DHCP server on your network, such as a router?
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| 18:54 | <imox> no
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| 18:54 | all works fine ;)
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| 18:54 | I just want to change the boot screen :D
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| 18:56 | <vagrantc> check your logs to see if it's downloading the lts.conf
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| 18:56 | <alkisg> Try this: [Default]
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| 18:56 | SCREEN_02=shell
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| 18:56 | <vagrantc> that's a good option, too
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| 18:56 | <alkisg> ...it's possible that you don't have the ubuntu theme installed in the chroot
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| 18:56 | <imox> I have
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| 18:57 | <vagrantc> setting SCREEN_02=shell will make it more obvious that it's reading your lts.conf at all.
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| 18:57 | that's the first thing you want to verify
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| 18:57 | <imox> ok
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| 19:16 | vagrantc: ok it works
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| 19:17 | I have a black screen :D
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| 19:30 | <Rolling> hi i need help
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| 19:31 | who many ram i need to 100 terminals?
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| 19:31 | <imox> 32 :D
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| 19:32 | <Rolling> thx bro
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| 19:32 | <imox> no no I'm not sure ;) moment
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| 19:33 | I'm not an expert but I red it for a few days
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| 19:34 | <Rolling> ok
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| 19:34 | <imox> 30 mb per client
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| 19:34 | <imox> 3 GB for the clients ;)
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| 19:34 | <Rolling> and cpu?
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| 19:35 | <imox> If you realy setup want to use 100 clients I would buy a very good hardware
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| 19:35 | even if you don't need it
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| 19:35 | ;)
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| 19:35 | <Hyperbyte> 30mb per client>
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| 19:35 | ?
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| 19:35 | <imox> yes
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| 19:36 | <Hyperbyte> imox, where did you get that number?
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| 19:36 | <imox> from the ubuntu ltsp forum
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| 19:36 | <Hyperbyte> Rolling, are you planning on using fat or thin clients?
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| 19:36 | <Rolling> im building a Project for a person
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| 19:36 | <imox> ok sorry 30 mb for a normal client and if you have a lot of application then 128 mb
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| 19:36 | <Rolling> ok
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| 19:36 | <Hyperbyte> imox, that's -nuts-
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| 19:37 | Rolling, fat or thin clients?
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| 19:37 | <Rolling> fat
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| 19:37 | who
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| 19:37 | why@
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| 19:37 | <Hyperbyte> Rolling:
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| 19:38 | <Rolling> what
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| 19:38 | <Hyperbyte> Thin clients are traditionally low-powered computers, that run nearly all of their software directly on a central server. The users' desktop is transferred over the network from the server to the client.
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| 19:39 | Fat clients are desktop computers that run all their software locally on the computer, but do 'download' all their software from a central network server.
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| 19:39 | <Rolling> ok i need to go thx guys
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| 19:39 | <Hyperbyte> ...
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| 19:39 | Rolling, alright - but keep in mind, 30mb per client = wrong.
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| 19:40 | <Rolling> yes know
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| 19:41 | <Rolling> thin clientes 128 mb ram
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| 19:41 | clients
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| 19:41 | <Hyperbyte> At the very least.
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| 19:41 | <Rolling> thx hyperbyte
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| 19:41 | <Hyperbyte> And on the server, for 100 clients.... start thinking in the 64GB RAM area at least, preferably more if you have 128MB clients, since you're going to be running 100 instances of Firefox on the server.
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| 19:42 | Preferably you'd have two servers, since even with enough RAM, you won't find a CPU fast enough to handle that many clients, if they're used intensively (i.e, all browsing the web at the same time).
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| 19:42 | *two or more
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| 19:43 | With 100 clients, this story becomes more complicated than 'oh, 128mb per client'
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| 19:45 | Next you have to imagine bandwith usage.... 100 HD video streams losslessly compressed running around the network at the same time.
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| 19:45 | <Hyperbyte> Oh boy. Well, I wish him luck.
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| 19:46 | <imox> I have under /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/themes my xubuntu theme and in my lts.conf this LDM_THEME=xubuntu
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| 19:46 | <Hyperbyte> imox, link your source for the 30mb per client.
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| 19:46 | <imox> Hyperbyte: but in german http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/LTSP
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| 19:47 | <Hyperbyte> Ich verstehe Deutsch...
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| 19:47 | <imox> sehr gut ;)
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| 19:50 | <Hyperbyte> That page is nuts... and the author is crazy. "For 20 clients, you need 30 MB on each client and 1 GB RAM on the server."
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| 19:51 | <imox> Hyperbyte: can you help why my boot screen dosn't change`?
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| 19:51 | <Hyperbyte> First of all, I'm pretty sure modern Ubuntu kernels don't run on anything less than 128 MB. And if you have clients with so little ram, you will have to run -all- the software on the server. Does anyone really believe you can start 20 desktop sessions in 1 GB RAM?
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| 19:51 | That'd be 50 MB per desktop session...
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| 19:52 | <Hyperbyte> imox, yes, but you need to fix that page. :)
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| 19:52 | Your German is obviously better than mine, so I've volunteered you to do it.
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| 19:53 | As for your boot screen - I've never set LDM_THEME from lts.conf, I've always just changed the 'default' symlink to the appropriate theme
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| 19:53 | <imox> yes but my english is very bad ^^
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| 19:53 | Hyperbyte: ok i will try this
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| 19:54 | <Hyperbyte> Take a look in the themes directory. You'll find one symlink called "default" (this is the default LDM theme), it links to a certain theme
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| 19:54 | If you link it to another directory, LDM will use that theme by default
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| 19:54 | <imox> yes I find it
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| 19:54 | <Hyperbyte> Remember to run ltsp-update-image after modifying anything in /opt/ltsp/
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| 19:56 | <imox> should I do this under the chroot ?
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| 19:59 | where are my themes under the chroot?
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| 19:59 | <alkisg> /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/themes/
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| 19:59 | <imox> not
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| 20:00 | <alkisg> What are the contents of that directory?
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| 20:00 | <imox> /usr/share/ldm/themes
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| 20:00 | <alkisg> $ ls /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/themes/
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| 20:00 | default ltsp ubuntu
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| 20:00 | <Hyperbyte> imox, you have to change the directory on the server, not on the client.
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| 20:01 | <imox> ok
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| 20:01 | but the symlink is on the client
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| 20:01 | default -> /etc/alternatives/ldm-theme/
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| 20:01 | <Hyperbyte> imox, the symlink is also on the server.
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| 20:02 | <imox> default -> /etc/alternatives/ldm-theme from the server ;)
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| 20:02 | the same symlink
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| 20:02 | <Hyperbyte> Are you using ltsp-pnp?
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| 20:02 | <imox> but the path default -> /etc/alternatives/ldm-theme is in my chroot from the client
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| 20:02 | sorry what is pnp
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| 20:02 | <Hyperbyte> ls -al /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/themes/
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| 20:03 | !pastebin
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| 20:03 | <ltsp> pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 20:03 | <Hyperbyte> Pastebin the output of that command.
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| 20:03 | <imox> Hyperbyte: yes there are the themes
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| 20:03 | http://pastebin.com/zEwE86J5
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| 20:04 | <Hyperbyte> And there's also a "default" symlink. See it?
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| 20:04 | Line 5 of your paste.
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| 20:04 | <imox> yes but to /etc/alternatives/ldm-theme
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| 20:04 | <Hyperbyte> Who cares.
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| 20:04 | <imox> and this I just have on the client
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| 20:04 | not on the server
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| 20:04 | ok
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| 20:05 | <Hyperbyte> It just might be reset back to default if you ever update ldm. :)
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| 20:05 | Else I think you can run update-alternatives if you execute 'ltsp-chroot' first, but it's more hassle.
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| 20:05 | <imox> ok
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| 20:05 | I restart
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| 20:06 | <Hyperbyte> ltsp-update-image!
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| 20:06 | :)
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| 20:07 | <imox> yes ;)
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| 20:07 | I did it
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| 20:08 | hmmm
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| 20:08 | same bootscreen
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| 20:10 | <Hyperbyte> !screen_02
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| 20:10 | <ltsp> screen_02: To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using_a_shell_SCREEN
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| 20:10 | <imox> no effects
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| 20:10 | <Hyperbyte> Make those modifications in your lts.conf, then after reboot of the client press ctrl+alt+f2
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| 20:11 | And run ls -al /usr/share/ldm/themes/ in the root shell
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| 20:11 | See if 'default' is linked correctly.
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| 20:28 | <sat_> hiiii
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| 20:28 | <Hyperbyte> Hi!
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| 20:28 | <sat_> i want to know detail @ ltsp
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| 20:32 | <vagrantc> there used to be some wiki.ltsp.org page that mentioned a base amount + X per client
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| 20:32 | though the numbers were fairly dated last i looked, but the premise is not too bad
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| 20:40 | <messyjoe> evenin' all
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| 21:03 | <smurf> new to ltsp irc...looking for some help?
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| 21:03 | <vagrantc> !question
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| 21:03 | <ltsp> question: if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can. please also mention the linux distro and release you're using. :)
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| 21:04 | <Hyperbyte> messyjoe, smurf, hi!
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| 21:04 | <smurf> ok...using Ubuntu 12.0.4 LTS....I am getting "no response from server...restarting" at LDM login
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| 21:04 | <alkisg> !ltsp-update-sshkeys
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| 21:04 | <ltsp> ltsp-update-sshkeys: If you changed your server IP, you need to run ltsp-update-sshkeys, and if you're using NBD (Ubuntu) you also need ltsp-update-image afterwards
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| 21:04 | <smurf> I;ve done the usual update sshkeys etc.
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| 21:04 | no chance to IP
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| 21:04 | <alkisg> Did you also run ltsp-update-image after that?
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| 21:04 | <smurf> one NIC
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| 21:05 | also ran update image after that, yes
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| 21:05 | <vagrantc> do you have ldm-server installed on the server?
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| 21:05 | <smurf> should mention that I am using fat-client, and Centrify auth into domain
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| 21:05 | <alkisg> Yup, that part about the domain would matter :)
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| 21:05 | <vagrantc> can you ssh to the server with the same user and credentials from another machine?
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| 21:06 | <alkisg> You mean active directory domain?
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| 21:06 | <smurf> I got Centrify working on thin client, now trying fat-client
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| 21:06 | * alkisg reads centrify.com... | |
| 21:06 | <smurf> yes, using AD domain
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| 21:07 | ssh question - you mean from booted LTSP client back to LTSP server?
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| 21:07 | <alkisg> ssh is the key, check what vagrantc said above ^
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| 21:07 | <vagrantc> smurf: from any machine to the LTSP server
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| 21:07 | <smurf> OK, will try that...if it fails, what needs to be done?
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| 21:07 | <vagrantc> although if it's working for thin clients...
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| 21:08 | <smurf> I can login into ldm with my first setup user (non AD) OK
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| 21:09 | are there specific logs that can be checked...outside of syslog?
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| 21:09 | ...that woudl matter
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| 21:09 | <alkisg> There's /var/log/auth.log
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| 21:09 | <vagrantc> auth.log
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| 21:09 | <smurf> ....in the ltsp client, yes? or on LTSP server?
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| 21:09 | <vagrantc> on the LTSP server
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| 21:10 | <smurf> are there any specific lts.conf entries that would get in the way?
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| 21:10 | <vagrantc> smurf: so, with the same user, it works on thin client, but fails on fat client?
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| 21:10 | <smurf> or help?
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| 21:11 | <vagrantc> !pastebin
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| 21:11 | <ltsp> pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 21:11 | <vagrantc> smurf: could pastebin it ^^
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| 21:11 | * vagrantc has to head out soon | |
| 21:11 | <smurf> vagrantc - yes, thin client works with same user
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| 21:12 | needing fat client because thin too slow
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| 21:12 | <alkisg> Thins work with non-AD and with AD users, and fats only work with non-AD users?
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| 21:12 | <smurf> so far, yes
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| 21:12 | my centrify adcheck works OK within the booted fat-client
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| 21:13 | Can see and resolve all necessary AD info
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| 21:13 | <alkisg> Do you have anything special wrt /home/usernames?
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| 21:13 | <vagrantc> all it does is ssh to the server for login informtaion, unless you've done a lot of customization
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| 21:13 | * vagrantc waves | |
| 21:13 | <vagrantc> good luck
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| 21:13 | <Hyperbyte> smurf, you need to configure your AD inside the fat client chroot I assume.
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| 21:13 | <alkisg> Also, try to log in with an AD user to a fat client, and check /var/log/auth.log on the server
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| 21:13 | bb vagrantc
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| 21:14 | <smurf> no....no created usernames yet...they are created when login from Centrify
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| 21:14 | <alkisg> smurf: so there's no home dir for the client to use?
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| 21:14 | <smurf> no, there is not, but Centriy AD logins(successful ones) will create those
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| 21:15 | <alkisg> Where? On the ltsp server? Or mounted e.g. via NFS/Samba/whatever?
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| 21:15 | <smurf> on LTSP server, yes will work, and also on logged in thin clients
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| 21:15 | no Samba at play here
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| 21:16 | <alkisg> (12:13:57 πμ) alkisg: Also, try to log in with an AD user to a fat client, and check /var/log/auth.log on the server
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| 21:16 | If the login is successful, then there might be some bug with group handling etc
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| 21:17 | <smurf> OK, I have some things to chew on...thanks for the help so far..I need to go
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| 21:17 | <alkisg> bb
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