IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 17 November 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 08:15 | <Gadi> morning, all
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| 08:16 | ogra: put intrepid on my eeepc901 on friday, and yesterday got bluetooth+dialup+cell phone working :)
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| 08:16 | its quite solid
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| 08:16 | and very nice
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| 08:16 | <ogra> :)
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| 08:17 | <Gadi> couldn't find dialup in the network configs, so I did it all by hand
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| 08:17 | <ogra> oh ?
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| 08:17 | <Gadi> not sure where the desktop folks hid it :)
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| 08:17 | <ogra> its in NM applet
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| 08:17 | <Gadi> they have VPN, DSL, ...
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| 08:17 | <ogra> and 3G
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| 08:17 | <Gadi> but, I was looking for just dialup
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| 08:17 | right - but only 3G for certain providers
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| 08:18 | and not mine (EVDO)
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| 08:18 | <ogra> right, only the ones we got user submissions for
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| 08:18 | <Gadi> ah
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| 08:18 | <ogra> file a bug and add info :)
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| 08:18 | <Gadi> too bad there was no generic
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| 08:18 | I would have liked to just fill it in
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| 08:18 | with all the params
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| 08:18 | <ogra> hmm, not sure how that works, i havent used 3G yet
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| 08:19 | <Gadi> with mine, it is just dialup with noauth and number #777
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| 08:19 | <ogra> i just saw the list showing up when i tested my phone bluetooth
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| 08:19 | <Gadi> yeah - bluetooth is 3x slower than USB cable
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| 08:19 | so, its only if I dont have the cable on me
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| 08:19 | <ogra> ah
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| 08:20 | <Gadi> but, 128kbps is still useable somewhat
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| 08:20 | 750kbps is much better, tho
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| 08:20 | :)
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| 08:20 | <ogra> heh, yeah
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| 08:20 | <Gadi> intrepid is quite nice
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| 08:21 | feels more stable than hardy
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| 08:21 | * Gadi needs to ask sbalneav how hardy is as a terminal server | |
| 08:21 | <Gadi> with all the bugfixes
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| 08:21 | <ogra> hardy is still missing a bunch of SRU backports
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| 08:22 | not all intrepid fixes are/will be backported
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| 08:22 | <Gadi> better to do intrepid for a terminal server, you think?
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| 08:22 | <ogra> i would think so
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| 08:22 | unless you actually need LTS
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| 08:22 | hardy was very conservative wrt ltsp
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| 08:23 | <Gadi> well, I am less concerned about the ltsp part
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| 08:23 | more about the memory usage, etc
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| 08:23 | I know there were quirky server-side things
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| 08:23 | <ogra> then its definately intrepid
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| 08:23 | more client side actually
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| 08:24 | clients use compcache by default
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| 08:24 | <nubae> intrepid IS more stable than hardy
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| 08:24 | <ogra> in intrepid you should actually be able to boot 32M clients
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| 08:24 | <Gadi> oh - can I enable that on my eeepc?
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| 08:24 | <ogra> yes
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| 08:24 | <Gadi> is it a kernel arg?
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| 08:24 | <ogra> initramfs.conf
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| 08:24 | <Gadi> do you know the magic word off hand?
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| 08:25 | <ogra> COMPCACHE_SIZE=
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| 08:25 | values are documented in the conf file
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| 08:25 | * Gadi was kinda reluctant to give the lil guy swap space on the flash | |
| 08:25 | <Gadi> ah, cool
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| 08:25 | * ogra implemented it :) | |
| 08:25 | <Gadi> is there a rule of thumb size?
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| 08:25 | given the amount of RAM
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| 08:25 | <ogra> 25% is the default
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| 08:26 | i takes % M K G as units
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| 08:37 | <Gadi> "you can optionally install the compcache package" - but it is not in my apt-cache?
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| 08:37 | is it called something else?
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| 08:38 | <ogra> no, it didnt get through REVU in time
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| 08:38 | it just adds a debconf frontend
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| 08:38 | <Gadi> ah
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| 08:38 | so, I dont need it
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| 08:38 | <ogra> so you get a ble screen with one entry field
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| 08:38 | *blue
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| 08:38 | and OK button
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| 08:39 | just edit initramfs.conf and run update-initramfs
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| 08:39 | <Gadi> running...
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| 08:44 | and, it works as advertised :)
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| 08:44 | <ogra> :)
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| 08:49 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> #dlw
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| 09:35 | <sbalneav> Good morning all
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| 09:38 | <_UsUrPeR_> morning Mr. Balneav
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| 09:38 | !s
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| 09:38 | <ltspbot> _UsUrPeR_: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 09:38 | <_UsUrPeR_> :D
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| 09:41 | <sbalneav> _UsUrPeR_: Balneaves, but I thank you for the honorific :)
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| 09:41 | <_UsUrPeR_> I try. I think the !s says it all
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| 09:42 | <sbalneav> Well, last hardy upgrade here went off fairly smoothly
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| 09:42 | <_UsUrPeR_> awsome
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| 09:42 | err awesome
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| 09:42 | my wife tried to use the automatic upgrade for ubuntu 8.04 on her laptop
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| 09:42 | it hosed many a thing :/
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| 09:43 | I'm sure a new install will work out better for her, but until then she's trying Fedora w/ KDE
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| 09:43 | <sbalneav> I'm still getting a problem here where once in a while, when people print out from OpenOffice.org, the printout's completely fubared. The formatting's all there, but it's like the character map's gotten randomized, and all the letters on the page are substituted for random ones.
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| 09:43 | Power cycling the printer seems to fix it.
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| 09:43 | <_UsUrPeR_> what type of printer is it?
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| 09:44 | nm, irrelevant
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| 09:44 | <sbalneav> Several different kinds, all HP's though
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| 09:44 | ranging from HP 4100's to HP 4250's
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| 09:44 | <_UsUrPeR_> are they using Ooo 3 or a later version of 2?
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| 09:45 | <sbalneav> 2.4.1
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| 09:46 | <_UsUrPeR_> The weirdest thing about that is how the problem is fixed.
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| 09:46 | <sbalneav> It's almost like openoffice sends down something that gets the printer into a confused state
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| 09:47 | printing out of Firefox, or other applications doesn't exhibit the problem
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| 09:47 | Only OO.o
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| 09:47 | <_UsUrPeR_> do HP printers have font sets in memory?
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| 09:48 | <sbalneav> I beleive so, but we use Bistream Vera Sans usually around here, so that will normally be downloaded to the printer anywho.
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| 09:49 | <_UsUrPeR_> Have you attempted changing the font to print to prior to rebooting the printer?
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| 09:49 | god that's weird
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| 09:49 | It's like the printer forgets how to normally interpret a cetrain font type or something :P
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| 09:50 | err... certain. Especially strange when it prints web pages properly.
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| 09:50 | Have you considered a script that would convert a document to .pdf prior to printing? :)
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| 09:50 | <sbalneav> Yeah, and it's one of these things that happens infrequently - once or twice a week.
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| 09:51 | <sbalneav> Enough to be annoying to the users, but not something you can trigger reliably, so you can wireshark the datastream, or look at the postscript produced, or whatever.
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| 09:52 | <_UsUrPeR_> guh.
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| 09:52 | that reminds me of issues we'd experience while installing Asterisk phone systems.
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| 09:53 | by the time we would get to a user's desk to hear the problems with voice quality, the user will have already unplugged their phone
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| 09:53 | !pastebot
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| 09:53 | <ltspbot> _UsUrPeR_: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
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| 10:09 | <_UsUrPeR_> I'm having a problem getting a client to mount an NFS dir on boot.
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| 10:10 | here's the current /etc/fstab
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| 10:10 | <ltsppbot> "_UsUrPeR_" pasted "NFS mount problem" (3 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/109
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| 10:10 | <_UsUrPeR_> does anyone see any problems in there?
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| 10:10 | if I mount -n the dir, it works fine. Just not from boot
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| 10:10 | adding auto to the mount options has no effect
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| 10:14 | <ogra> ?? where do yu put that fstab ?
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| 10:14 | it gets generated on boot usually
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| 10:15 | <_UsUrPeR_> fstab's in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/fstab
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| 10:16 | written to the client ltsp image
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| 10:16 | <ogra> right
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| 10:16 | <_UsUrPeR_> good question though. I noticed that I had not specified it was in the chroot
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| 10:16 | <ogra> make sure to have teh right stuff for teh rootfs in there as well and set CONFIGURE_FSTAB=False
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| 10:17 | (at least in ubuntu and debian that should work)
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| 10:17 | <_UsUrPeR_> where does configure_fstab go?
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| 10:17 | * _UsUrPeR_ is using fedora 9 | |
| 10:17 | <ogra> lts.conf
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| 10:17 | ah, not sure warren ported that bit
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| 10:17 | check the initscript
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| 10:17 | in ubuntu and deban fstab is generated from ltsp-client-setup
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| 10:18 | <_UsUrPeR_> ahh
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| 10:19 | <mattwalston> Anyway to make a second client image for diffrent hardware? I don't see an option in the build client script
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| 10:19 | <ogra> why would you do that ?
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| 10:19 | unless its a totally different CPU architecture
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| 10:20 | <mattwalston> ogra: I gave up fixing the issue with the via devices so I put an Xorg.conf in the client image and I have other machines that I don't want to have the "customized"
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| 10:21 | <ogra> well, you create /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf-via and define X_CONF=/etc/X11/xorg.conf-via in lts.conf for the clients with via chipsets
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| 10:22 | the rest will use the normal autodetection
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| 10:22 | <ogra> thats what lts.conf is for :)
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| 10:23 | <mattwalston> ogra: sounds like a plan... i will give it a go
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| 10:36 | <selffik> Hello! How can i boot LTSP with PC without PXE?
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| 10:38 | <sbalneav> selffik: You could use etherboot
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| 10:38 | <vagrantc> or gPXE
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| 10:38 | !bootfloppy
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| 10:38 | <ltspbot> vagrantc: "bootfloppy" is http://etherboot.anadex.de or ftp://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP/Universal_boot_floppy
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| 10:38 | <selffik> better with CD
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| 10:38 | i think
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| 10:39 | <vagrantc> selffik: the etherboot.anadex.de has an .iso image too, i think.
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| 10:39 | <sbalneav> There you go
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| 10:39 | <vagrantc> you can also generate a CD, floppy, whatever, from rom-o-matic.net
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| 10:39 | <selffik> yeah i will try thx guys
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| 10:39 | <sbalneav> Or, you could do like I did, and go out and buy yourself an eprom burner :)
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| 10:39 | <vagrantc> be sure to select "gpxe:all-drivers"
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| 10:40 | and then you'd get to call yourself old-school. :)
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| 10:40 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: Does freegeek burn eproms?
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| 10:40 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: no. we tried ages ago, and it just was too much hassle.
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| 10:40 | <sbalneav> Kids these days.
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| 10:40 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: by the time we got the hang of it, PXE implementations were getting pretty reliable
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| 10:40 | <sbalneav> :)
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| 10:41 | The second time I booted an LTSP workstation, I went and burned an eprom for it :)
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| 10:41 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 10:42 | because of some weird switch configuration though, we're actually back to floppies.
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| 10:42 | * vagrantc grumbles | |
| 10:43 | <sbalneav> So, very first time I booted LTSP, I had a gutted Pentium 133 with 64 megs of memory.
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| 10:43 | No case, just the floppy
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| 10:43 | <sbalneav> worked like a charm but I *REALLY* wanted to see LTSP boot with absolutely NO storage device at all.
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| 10:44 | <ogra> thats what made you invent PXE and sell it to intel ?
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| 10:44 | <sbalneav> So I grabbed an eprom, and the rtl8139 .rom image, and trekked down to the university, borrowed their burner, and birned the 'prom
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| 10:44 | <selffik> NIC/ROM type where i can see it?
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| 10:44 | * ogra considers an eprom a storage device | |
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| 10:45 | <sbalneav> Next morning, 8:30, I yanked the floppy, plugged the eprom into the rtl8139, and watched it boot automatically.
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| 10:46 | You know when you get one of those epiphanies when, like, angels are singing in the background? I has a smile on my face a mile wide. This was in October of '99
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| 10:46 | And the rest, as they say, is history. Here I am, 9.1 years later :)
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| 10:47 | selffik: What kind of network card is it?
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| 10:47 | <selffik> Realtek
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| 10:47 | <sbalneav> ogra: eprom storage device?
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| 10:47 | rm <file>
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| 10:48 | Kernel message: Please unplug eprom and place it under UV lamp for 20 minutes
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| 10:48 | :)
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| 10:48 | <sbalneav> selffik: realtek... what? 8140? 8200?
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| 10:48 | <ogra> well, does "storage device" define removability of files ?
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| 10:49 | <sbalneav> No, guess not :)
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| 10:49 | <selffik> 81xx
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| 10:49 | <sbalneav> selffik: Well, look at it with lspci, that will tell you
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| 10:50 | <selffik> ok
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| 10:51 | <vagrantc> the nice thing about the etherboot floppy/iso from anadex.de, is it detects your network card and uses the appropriate etherboot image automatically...
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| 10:51 | ditto for gPXE
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| 10:53 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: Wonder if we should include a link to them in the doci?
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| 10:53 | err, doco
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| 10:53 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: gPXE ?
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| 10:53 | <sbalneav> Sure
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| 10:53 | and the anadex.de link where you can download the image
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| 10:53 | <vagrantc> well, it's the recommended choice at rom-o-matic.net if you reference them
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| 10:54 | the etherboot project seems to have moved all development over to gPXE, as far as i can tell...
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| 10:57 | <_UsUrPeR_> ogra: when you said "check the initscript", what were you referring to?
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| 10:57 | <sbalneav> Hmm, ok, we should probably make mention of that in the docs.
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| 10:58 | I'll look at updating that.
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| 10:58 | <ogra> _UsUrPeR_, whatever initscript fedora uses instead of ours :)
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| 10:58 | <_UsUrPeR_> oh :|
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| 10:58 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i haven't really tried gPXE extensively, but overall it seems to be as capable as etherboot, with a whole lot more features.
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| 10:59 | sbalneav: and a little better overall design
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| 10:59 | i.e. it handles munging support for multiple card types into a single image better
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| 10:59 | <selffik> where i can choose all drivers for gPXE?
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| 10:59 | <vagrantc> selffik: are you using rom-o-matic.net ?
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| 11:00 | <selffik> yes
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| 11:00 | <vagrantc> there should be a drop-down menu, probably 3c5 something
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| 11:01 | http://rom-o-matic.net/gpxe/gpxe-0.9.5/contrib/rom-o-matic/
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| 11:01 | drop-down menu: choose NIC/ROM type
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| 11:01 | <selffik> yeah i found!
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| 11:01 | <vagrantc> selffik: select gpxe:all-drivers
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| 11:01 | <selffik> why they just dont put it at begin or end :)
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| 11:07 | <johnny> ubuntu only has ltsp-client-launch _UsUrPeR_ iirc
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| 11:07 | err sorry
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| 11:07 | fedora
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| 11:08 | <_UsUrPeR_> johnny: ok, thanks
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| 11:08 | <johnny> ubuntu uses two init scripts ltsp-client and ltsp-client-core
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| 11:08 | warren's stuff is alot shorter :)
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| 11:08 | finally nvidia drivers showed up..
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| 11:09 | damnit pcspkr .. why did you want to become so annoying
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| 11:09 | <warren> johnny: I just blacklist pcspkr
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| 11:10 | <johnny> yeah.. done.
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| 11:10 | gone
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| 11:10 | <ogra> poor pcspkr
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| 11:11 | <johnny> so.. banshee 1.4 is pretty incredible
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| 11:11 | it has the tag editor i want..
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| 11:16 | <mattwalston> ogra: no luck with the change... it could be a config file issues, I will retry using MAC address of a test client
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| 11:17 | ogra: is it X_CONF or XF86CONFIG_FILE? I have conflicting docs
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| 11:17 | !docs
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| 11:17 | <ltspbot> mattwalston: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 11:19 | <johnny> both
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| 11:19 | X_CONF is neweer
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| 11:19 | so it is suggested you use that
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| 11:19 | the old way is for ltsp4 migrations
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| 11:27 | <sbalneav> K, updated docs, pushed rev.
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| 11:28 | I'm going to also spend about 20 minutes right now making all web references in the docs clickable. We've got quite a number of links which are just text.
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| 11:33 | <hallmant> Hello! I'm having some trouble getting an external HDD to show up on an LTS desktop. Is anyone available to help?
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| 11:37 | <selffik> hallmant, HDD by USB?
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| 11:40 | <hallmant> selffik: Hi! Yes. Sorry for the delay.
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| 11:41 | <sbalneav> hallmant: is it an NTFS volume?
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| 11:41 | <hallmant> The client is seeing the drive okay (ran dmesg)
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| 11:41 | No
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| 11:41 | It's ext3
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| 11:41 | I'm currently looking at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/DebugLocalDev
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| 11:41 | <sbalneav> Is the user in the fuse group?
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| 11:41 | <hallmant> Yup
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| 11:41 | And I can manually mount the drive on the client
| |
| 11:42 | <Gadi> prolly isnt considered removable
| |
| 11:42 | <hallmant> But it's not "automatically" happening
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| 11:42 | ohh
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| 11:42 | <sbalneav> hallmant: So, this drive's in an external USB case?
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| 11:42 | <Gadi> or it sucks too much current and is killing the kernel (if ur thin client has a weak power supply)
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| 11:43 | <johnny> people often want non removable drives to be accessible Gadi
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| 11:43 | <Gadi> johnny: ok
| |
| 11:43 | :)
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| 11:43 | <hallmant> sbalneav: Yeah, that's what it appears to be. (It's a friend's device.)
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| 11:43 | Gadi: I don't think it's a weak supply
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| 11:43 | <Gadi> ok
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| 11:44 | you can edit the udev rules to allow removable
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| 11:44 | (or maybe there is another way these days)
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| 11:44 | * Gadi lives a bit in the past | |
| 11:44 | <sbalneav> Well, sounds as if the udev rule isn't firing, I agree.
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| 11:45 | Whice version of LTSP and host OS are you running?
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| 11:45 | <hallmant> sbalneav: Yeah, that's right. I just checked
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| 11:45 | /var/run/ltspfs_fstab only lists the floppy
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| 11:45 | But not the USB HDD
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| 11:46 | <sbalneav> So, something about that drive isn't triggering the udev event.
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| 11:46 | <hallmant> sbalneav: It's ltsp5, and Ubuntu Hardy
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| 11:48 | Any ideas as to how to get this working? Or do I just tell my friend to try a different device? :)
| |
| 11:48 | He's basically using it as a glorified thumb drive (except the thing's heavy and ugly) *shrug*
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| 11:50 | <sbalneav> Well, you might want to try changing the add line to be something like:
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| 11:50 | ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="block", ENV{ID_FS_TYPE}=="?*" RUN+=....
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| 11:51 | that might help
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| 11:52 | <hallmant> sbalneav: I'm sorry; I don't follow. What add line is that?
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| 11:53 | <sbalneav> in the ltsp udev rules in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/udev/rules.d
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| 11:53 | You'll have to update the image afterwards with ltsp-update-image
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| 11:54 | <hallmant> sbalneav: In that dir there are a lot of "rules" files... which one should I look at? (Sorry I'm not up on my udev :))
| |
| 11:54 | oh nm
| |
| 11:54 | Sorry... I see it now
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| 11:55 | <vagrantc> ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="block", ENV{ID_BUS}=="usb", ENV{ID_TYPE}=="disk", ATTRS{removable}!="1", RUN+="ltspfs_entry add %k"
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| 11:55 | but you may need to change "ltspfs_entry add" to "add_fstab_entry"
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| 11:56 | <hallmant> Whoo boy :) I'm glad you guys know what you're doing! It's greek to me...
| |
| 11:57 | Thanks very much for your help
| |
| 11:57 | I've got to run off here, but I'll give it a shot as soon as I'm back
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| 11:58 | <johnny> vagrantc, is there a reason to have ENV{ID_BUS} == "usb" ?
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| 11:59 | <vagrantc> johnny: because many USB disks show up as non-removeable, and we don't want real non-removable drives, only external USB drives
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| 11:59 | <johnny> how come?
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| 11:59 | many people ask for local hard drive support
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| 11:59 | <vagrantc> and many people asked to not have it
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| 11:59 | <johnny> could be a configurable option :)
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| 11:59 | <vagrantc> yes, that would be better...
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| 12:00 | i've been meaning to look at Gadi's configurability options ... for months.
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| 12:00 | johnny: basically, teachers would plug in laptops, and then students would have root access to their laptop's hard drive
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| 12:00 | <johnny> aha
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| 12:00 | <vagrantc> it's not expected behavior :)
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| 12:00 | <johnny> i tried to use my gf's work laptop as an ltsp client
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| 12:01 | sadly the bios locks out changing to allow netboot :(
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| 12:01 | <vagrantc> so, as a safety mechanism, the default is to not allow non-removable drives
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| 12:01 | i wonder if firewire drives have the same issue...
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| 12:01 | <loather> need one to test?
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| 12:02 | <vagrantc> loather: wouldn't hurt ...
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| 12:02 | loather: plug it in, and what's it say for /sys/block/$DEVICE/removable ?
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| 12:02 | <loather> ok. i have this firewire chassis and a 12G disk i'm not using for anything in particular.
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| 12:02 | oh, hang tight
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| 12:03 | <vagrantc> i wonder what BUS type firewire comes up as...
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| 12:03 | <loather> removable = 0
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| 12:04 | sbp2 emulates scsi
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| 12:04 | <vagrantc> ok, so i think the current udev rules won't work for external firewire drives, then ... *sigh*
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| 12:05 | <loather> :(
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| 12:06 | well, i'm gonna head into work. i'll be back around later
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| 12:06 | <vagrantc> loather: what's udevinfo -qenv -n /dev/$DEVICE report for ID_BUS ?
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| 12:06 | or udevadm info -qenv -n /dev/$DEVICE
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| 12:06 | <loather> ieee1394
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| 12:06 | <vagrantc> ok, so we'd have to add another rule for that ... although is firewire sometimes mounted internally?
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| 12:07 | <loather> the only time i've ever seen that done is on an obscure storage server
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| 12:09 | <vagrantc> ok, so that should be pretty safe to add ...
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| 12:09 | <loather> i'm thinking so
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| 12:09 | <vagrantc> although Gadi's technique is way better ...
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| 12:09 | allows you to specify that stuff in lts.conf and such
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| 12:10 | <loather> definitely would be a nice option
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| 12:16 | <vagrantc> eeyk. those patches are from early september...
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| 12:17 | <Gadi> yeah, Ive been meaning to set aside some time to work on ltspfs
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| 12:21 | <vagrantc> IFS tricks always scare me a little ...
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| 12:24 | <Gadi> be not afraid
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| 12:24 | unless you tell me it is not POSIX compliant
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| 12:24 | :)
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| 12:25 | fwiw - spaces scare me more
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| 12:25 | <vagrantc> i think it's fine, i just have to turn my head around a couple times to get used to it :)
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| 12:42 | <Gadi> vagrantc: do you know if virtual hard drives in virtual machines have unique serial numbers?
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| 12:43 | <vagrantc> nope.
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| 12:43 | * Gadi assumes it may depend on the vm tool | |
| 12:43 | <vagrantc> as in, i don't know.
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| 13:10 | <jammcq> hellooooo #ltsp
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| 13:13 | <vagrantc> Gadi: two minor bugs with your LOCALDEV_DENY code, but i've got it working pretty good i think
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| 13:14 | <Gadi> vagrantc: cool - its been so long I forgot what I coded ;)
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| 13:14 | jammcq has quit IRC | |
| 13:14 | <vagrantc> Gadi: need to move the LOCALDEV_DENY code above the cdrom handling
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| 13:14 | Gadi: and there was a small typo that made the script totally bork.
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| 13:15 | jammcq has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:15 | <jammcq> hellooooo #ltsp
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| 13:15 | see if this one works better :)
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| 13:15 | <Gadi> hey, jammcq
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| 13:15 | <jammcq> hey gadi
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| 13:15 | <Gadi> both workes
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| 13:15 | :)
| |
| 13:15 | <jammcq> yeah but something goofy happens with my internet connection at my office
| |
| 13:15 | it's like they are throttling IRC or something
| |
| 13:16 | I can connect to the channel and send a message, but then that's it
| |
| 13:16 | I can't get any more IRC traffic
| |
| 13:16 | <Gadi> speaking of internet, I put intrepid on my eeepc, and also got bluetooth and USB + cell phone as modem working
| |
| 13:16 | :)
| |
| 13:16 | and very solid
| |
| 13:16 | <jammcq> wow
| |
| 13:16 | sounds way cool
| |
| 13:16 | <Gadi> on xandros, the connection kept dropping
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| 13:16 | not on ubuntu
| |
| 13:16 | <jammcq> sounds like it works better than intrepid on my Dell
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| 13:16 | <Gadi> oh yeah?
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| 13:17 | i thought dell and ubuntu were lovers
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| 13:17 | Guest7765 has joined #ltsp | |
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| 13:20 | <Guest7765> testing from web interface
| |
| 13:20 | testing again
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| 13:20 | 1
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| 13:21 | Guest7765 has left #ltsp | |
| 13:21 | <johnny> neat
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| 13:21 | now .. if only joining was faster.. i could recommend it
| |
| 13:21 | too much whois on startup..
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| 14:07 | <vagrantc> Gadi: seems like the ID_BUS:ata+ID_TYPE:disk syntax doesn't work.
| |
| 14:07 | Gadi: it just denies all things of the bus or disk type, of that case
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| 14:08 | in that case
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| 14:08 | CAN-o-SPAM_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:08 | <vagrantc> Gadi: also, i'm curious why you used : instead of just = ?
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| 14:09 | LOCALDEV_DENY=ID_BUS=usb
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| 14:09 | think that should work fine.
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| 14:09 | <Gadi> vagrantc: parsing nightmare
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| 14:09 | one sec
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| 14:15 | <vagrantc> ahhh... eval and such
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| 14:19 | <jammcq> getltscfg should handle the double '='
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| 14:19 | in the past, we could specify module options that contains '='
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| 14:20 | johnny has joined #ltsp | |
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| 14:24 | rcy` has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:24 | <vagrantc> jammcq: yeah, but actually writing code to handle the = in the ltspfs scripts is a little tricky.
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| 14:25 | rcy has quit IRC | |
| 14:25 | <vagrantc> actually, i don't see how it's difficult...
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| 14:25 | * vagrantc will try it | |
| 14:28 | nubae has quit IRC | |
| 14:30 | <vagrantc> seems like it has to be quoted in lts.conf, though
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| 14:30 | <_UsUrPeR_> hey, what's the best way to pull the local ip of a machine in bash and assign it to a variable? I.E. localip = `some command that gives the ip`
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| 14:34 | <vagrantc> what's the context?
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| 14:44 | <vagrantc> seems like current ltspfs requires quoted values when there's = in the data
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| 14:45 | <Gadi> = makes things look ugly, too
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| 14:45 | :)
| |
| 14:45 | why make life difficult?
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| 14:45 | <rjune> !g
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| 14:45 | <ltspbot> rjune: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 14:46 | rcy` is now known as rcy | |
| 14:46 | <cliebow> someone say difficult??
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| 14:49 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i think the = make it look more clear ... but it appears that getltscfg doesn't properly handle that.
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| 14:49 | Gadi: at any rate, this patch would allow us to simplify the default rules a lot!
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| 14:52 | <johnny> _UsUrPeR_, look in ltsp-client-launch for one method
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| 14:52 | using the ip command
| |
| 14:52 | or you can just awk the ifconfig
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| 14:53 | <sbalneav> ip -o -f inet addr show eth0 | sed -nr 's|^.*inet[[:blank:]]*(.*)/.*$|\1|p'
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| 14:55 | That assumes your active interface is on eth0
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| 14:55 | and you're not interested in an IPV6 interface
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| 14:56 | If you wanted to do things "properly", i.e. look at which interface has a default route:
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| 15:01 | IFACE=$(route -n | awk '$1 == "0.0.0.0" {print $8}')
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| 15:01 | ip -o -f inet addr show $IFACE | sed -nr 's|^.*inet[[:blank:]]*(.*)/.*$|\1|p'
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| 15:02 | !seen davidj
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| 15:02 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: davidj was last seen in #ltsp 18 hours, 29 minutes, and 2 seconds ago: <davidj> The point of this was to make it easier on you, not harder ;-)
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| 15:02 | <vagrantc> although to *really* do it properly, you should use "ip route" and use magic to figure out if there happen to be multiple default routes...
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| 15:03 | <Gadi> vagrantc: will you push your patch upstream or are you going to share an separate branch?
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| 15:04 | <vagrantc> Gadi: the LOCALDEV_DENY stuff only does anything if it's set, so i think it's safe to push upstream.
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| 15:04 | Gadi: i might make a couple minor code cleanups, but it's basically ready.
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| 15:04 | <Gadi> ok
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| 15:04 | will you make any aliases for common deniable things?
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| 15:04 | or just keep it generic?
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| 15:05 | <vagrantc> it would be easy to do
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| 15:05 | <Gadi> s/will you/should we/
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| 15:05 | <vagrantc> although exactly what aliases to have
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| 15:05 | that's the hard part.
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| 15:05 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: well, "more properly" :)
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| 15:05 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: :)
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| 15:06 | <sbalneav> I shouldn't have said "properly"
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| 15:06 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: as should i
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| 15:06 | <sbalneav> "slightly more general case" is what I should have said.
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| 15:06 | * vagrantc says that sbalneav should have said that vagrantc would have said that ... | |
| 15:06 | <sbalneav> heh, the question "what's my IP address" is always a surprisingly complex one
| |
| 15:07 | <vagrantc> no doubt.
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| 15:07 | seems so simple.
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| 15:07 | <sbalneav> yeah
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| 15:09 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i'm wondering if it shouldn't exit 0 instead of exit 1 ... udev might treat that as a failed rule and move on to the next...
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| 15:09 | Gadi: i seem to recall that when i was implementing the cdpinger from udev stuff
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| 15:14 | <Gadi> vagrantc: do we not want it to move on to the next rule if it fails?
| |
| 15:14 | * vagrantc wonders what ID_BUS serial ata devices have | |
| 15:15 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i seem to recall weird things happening...
| |
| 15:17 | <sbalneav> I've always wondered, with all the ballyhoo about /proc, that there isn't a /proc entry somewhere with NAME=VALUE pairs, that you could just read/grep
| |
| 15:18 | and get the IP address that way.
| |
| 15:18 | <vagrantc> might be ...
| |
| 15:18 | or something close enough
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| 15:18 | <Gadi> mac address
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| 15:18 | in /sys/class/net
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| 15:18 | <sbalneav> rrrreaaaaly?
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| 15:19 | <Gadi> sure
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| 15:19 | <laga> do you want some python code to get the ip adress?
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| 15:19 | <Gadi> /sys/class/net/eth0/address
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| 15:20 | <sbalneav> /sys/class/net/eth0/address appears to be the mac addrss
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| 15:20 | unless I'm reading it wrong
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| 15:21 | <vagrantc> oooh.
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| 15:21 | <Gadi> right
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| 15:21 | <vagrantc> that looks *way* easier.
| |
| 15:21 | <Gadi> IP must be in arp somewhere
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| 15:22 | I suppose you can use it with /proc/net/arp and crossreference
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| 15:22 | <sbalneav> find doesn't report an arp in /sys
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| 15:22 | <Gadi> :)
| |
| 15:22 | but ur still using awk or some such
| |
| 15:22 | hehe
| |
| 15:23 | ah, and no guarantee that it'll be in the arp table
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| 15:23 | <sbalneav> right, might as well do my one liner.
| |
| 15:23 | It just seems to me you'd have something like /sys/class/net/eth0/ip_address or something
| |
| 15:23 | <johnny> yeah.. why isn't there..
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| 15:23 | i notice that
| |
| 15:24 | that'd be sweet
| |
| 15:24 | <laga> as i said, i do have some python code for that
| |
| 15:24 | <sbalneav> With the completely anally-retentive way that they seem to stick everything ELSE in /sys or /proc, you'd figgure that'd be there for sore.
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| 15:24 | laga: I've got C code, python code, and I just pasted shell code :)
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| 15:25 | <Gadi> well, you can have multiple IPs attached to one interface
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| 15:25 | <sbalneav> We can get it, it's just that there's no ELEGANT way to get it :)
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| 15:25 | <Gadi> and fancy multi-home crap
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| 15:25 | <laga> sbalneav: yeah, that's very annoying
| |
| 15:25 | <Gadi> and trunking
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| 15:25 | prolly too much to think about
| |
| 15:25 | :)
| |
| 15:26 | <sbalneav> Gadi: /sys/class/net/eth0/ip_addr, /sys/class/net/eth0:1/ip_addr...
| |
| 15:26 | <Gadi> right
| |
| 15:26 | what do I know? I just work here
| |
| 15:26 | <sbalneav> but yeah, I suspect it's just one of those "oh, this is so hard, meh, let 'em use the ip command" type things.
| |
| 15:27 | <Gadi> either that or it's a debate between kernel mode and usermode
| |
| 15:27 | and its all political
| |
| 15:27 | so no one does it
| |
| 15:27 | <sbalneav> That too.
| |
| 15:27 | Or a combination of the above. :)
| |
| 15:28 | Short answer: "what's my ip address" is still an NP-Complete question :)
| |
| 15:29 | <johnny> the question is really something like.. what is the ip address i use to get to $target
| |
| 15:30 | you have to know where you want to go, before you know how can get there..
| |
| 15:30 | <sbalneav> bingo
| |
| 15:30 | <johnny> profound.. yes .. i know
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| 15:30 | lol
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| 15:30 | <Gadi> arp -a
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| 15:30 | :P
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| 15:33 | <vagrantc> something about this localdev_deny seems to be breaking my cdpinger from udev magic when i'm denying cdpinger devices ...
| |
| 15:33 | or devices that would get called with cdpinger
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| 15:33 | i get one cdpinger for the raw device, /dev/hdc, and one for /dev/cdrom
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| 15:34 | <sbalneav> latest copy of the docs are up.
| |
| 15:35 | Tonight I'm going to make sure all the variables are up to date, and maybe shuffle around a few sections.
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| 15:36 | <vagrantc> ah, it might be getting started from ltsp-client-* init scripts
| |
| 15:36 | cdpinger, that is
| |
| 15:37 | <sbalneav> yeah, it is.
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| 15:37 | <vagrantc> normally, udev calls it first, and it checks if it's started ... but the initscripts aren't respecting LOCALDEV_DENY ... so they start it up
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| 15:37 | or something like that, is my guess.
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| 15:54 | <vagrantc> hmmm....
| |
| 15:54 | my cdpinger from udev isn't working quite like it used to ... i wonder if it's borked in other places as well
| |
| 15:56 | it's that IFS stuff!
| |
| 15:56 | i knew that was wonky.
| |
| 15:57 | we have to actually unset it, not set it to nothing
| |
| 15:57 | although, if it was previously set for some reason, we need to restore it
| |
| 15:59 | <Gadi> ah, right
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| 16:00 | I was bit by that at some point since writing that code
| |
| 16:00 | I always unset it now
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| 16:00 | <vagrantc> i've got it going in my branch ... almost ready to merge upstream
| |
| 16:01 | <Gadi> nice
| |
| 16:01 | <sbalneav> I'm looking forward to seeing that.
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| 16:02 | What I'd really like to see too is launching ltspfsd from udev as well
| |
| 16:02 | <vagrantc> so i think some boolean aliases, too: LOCALDEV_DENY_USB ... LOCALDEV_DENY_LOCAL_DISK ?
| |
| 16:03 | <sbalneav> That could be fairly simple too. I should just create a lock file for it somewhere in /var/run
| |
| 16:03 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i did that a long time ago :)
| |
| 16:03 | <sbalneav> lol, I haven't had to look at ltspfs for so long :)
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| 16:03 | so, if you don't plug anything in, -fsd doesnt launch?
| |
| 16:03 | Saweet
| |
| 16:03 | <vagrantc> pretty much
| |
| 16:04 | <sbalneav> Is there much need/call for c-ifying jetpipe?
| |
| 16:04 | <vagrantc> although i think we still call it from the init scripts if it isn't started ... but we can remove that now, in my opinion
| |
| 16:05 | sbalneav: if it reduces the memory footprint by a huge amount, maybe... but it makes coding and testing a lot trickier
| |
| 16:06 | <sbalneav> Somewhere out there, I hope Richard Stallman was paying attention: I went through the docs and made all references to "Linux" read "GNU/Linux" where a distro was being talked about.
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| 16:06 | hallmant has quit IRC | |
| 16:06 | <dberkholz> gentoo goes by gentoo linux
| |
| 16:07 | i don't care what rms says, that's what we call ourselves
| |
| 16:07 | similar holds true for everyone but debian, i suspect
| |
| 16:07 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: Debian GNU/Linux
| |
| 16:07 | GLTSP
| |
| 16:08 | <sbalneav> jammcq passed judgement on that one a long time ago: the "Linux" in LTSP just stands for the kernel :)
| |
| 16:08 | <jammcq> :)
| |
| 16:08 | <vagrantc> but was judgement then passed on jammcq ?
| |
| 16:09 | <jammcq> prolly
| |
| 16:09 | <sbalneav> Anyone looked at the docs lately?
| |
| 16:09 | * Gadi thought kernel starts with 'k' | |
| 16:09 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i look over your commits, but not the docs themselves :)
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| 16:10 | Gadi: no doubt. that's why it's called Debian GNU/kFreeBSD
| |
| 16:10 | so really, it should be GkLTSP
| |
| 16:10 | <sbalneav> I'm going to work with LaserJock and get some packaging made up.
| |
| 16:10 | <vagrantc> er, GNUkLTSP
| |
| 16:10 | <Gadi> heh
| |
| 16:10 | <dberkholz> so perhaps uGNU/kLinux then.
| |
| 16:10 | * Gadi thought Gnuk meant "nothing" | |
| 16:10 | <Gadi> ;)
| |
| 16:11 | gornischt
| |
| 16:11 | <sbalneav> we can have a -docs package that installs the html and xml files that can be read by yelp or... what's the K desktops's XML helpfile reader called?
| |
| 16:12 | * vagrantc always prefers plain-text docs | |
| 16:12 | <johnny> vagrantc, well transforming is easy enough :)
| |
| 16:12 | <jammcq> sbalneav: i'm sure it starts with a 'k'
| |
| 16:13 | <vagrantc> jammcq: you're just guessing!
| |
| 16:13 | <jammcq> well, it's a safe bet
| |
| 16:14 | meanwhile, I need to head out. gonna interview a programmer to see if he's got what it takes to come work for me
| |
| 16:14 | <sbalneav> I think docbook can produce plaintext as well.
| |
| 16:15 | We could add those to the make targets.
| |
| 16:15 | jammcq has quit IRC | |
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| 16:32 | <vagrantc> Gadi: proposals for some default LOCALDEV_DENY aliases?
| |
| 16:33 | <Gadi> vagrantc: when I add my ghotofs patch to ltspfs, should I do a cdfs one, too?
| |
| 16:33 | <vagrantc> what's cdfs?
| |
| 16:33 | <Gadi> another fuse filesystem for turning audio cds into files
| |
| 16:33 | <vagrantc> ooooh.
| |
| 16:33 | <Gadi> there may be something newer these days
| |
| 16:34 | I gotta check the repos
| |
| 16:34 | :)
| |
| 16:34 | but, might be worthwhile?
| |
| 16:35 | I like the two aliases you came up with so far
| |
| 16:35 | I would say, alias stuff that is common and/or complicated
| |
| 16:35 | we can start with those 2
| |
| 16:35 | and add if needbe
| |
| 16:35 | but, the fewer lts.conf vars to support in the future, the better
| |
| 16:36 | so, lets not go too crazt
| |
| 16:36 | *crazy
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| 16:36 | selffik has quit IRC | |
| 16:36 | <vagrantc> Gadi: any proposals for some LOCALDEV_DENY_* aliases?
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| 16:37 | <Gadi> FLOPPY
| |
| 16:37 | maybe?
| |
| 16:37 | <vagrantc> oh, we may need that at freegeek. yes!
| |
| 16:38 | although floppy is tricky...
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| 16:38 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 16:38 | chrisinajar has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:38 | <Gadi> right - internal, external, all..
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| 16:38 | <vagrantc> as *real* floppies don't set ID_TYPE=floppy
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| 16:38 | though usb floppies do
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| 16:38 | <Gadi> I would say, have it kill all
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| 16:38 | <Gadi> hmm...
| |
| 16:38 | so, how do you determine real floppy?
| |
| 16:38 | fro dev name?
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| 16:39 | <vagrantc> yeah
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| 16:39 | <Gadi> can we access that?
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| 16:39 | <vagrantc> not in the deny rules
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| 16:39 | at least, not without more coding ...
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| 16:39 | mccann has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:40 | <vagrantc> well, maybe it does ...
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| 16:40 | alkisg has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:40 | <vagrantc> we could play tricks, i think ... i.e. case $device in ; fd?) ID_TYPE=floppy ;; esac
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| 16:41 | i wish the removeable value was as easy to test for
| |
| 16:42 | we can emulate it with ID_BUS=ata+ID_TYPE=disk,ID_BUS=scsi+ID_TYPE=disk ... and that should catch most internal drives
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| 16:43 | <Gadi> right
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| 16:43 | <vagrantc> but i'm not confident it'll catch everything
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| 16:44 | <Gadi> btw
| |
| 16:44 | call it LOCALDEV_DENY_LOCAL_HDD
| |
| 16:44 | DISK is vague, I think
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| 16:44 | actually, it should be internal
| |
| 16:44 | right?
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| 16:44 | <vagrantc> sounds good
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| 16:44 | <Gadi> LOCALDEV_DENY_INTERNAL_HDD
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| 16:45 | and then you can pick off ide, scsi, sata
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| 16:45 | <vagrantc> sata isn't hot-pluggable?
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| 16:45 | <Gadi> even if it is - it's internal
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| 16:45 | if I am a user, I would distinguish between internal/external
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| 16:45 | <stgraber> Gadi: no, there are motherboards with an external S-ATA connector
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| 16:46 | <Gadi> not removable/not-removable
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| 16:46 | <vagrantc> i've seen external sata ports ... but i'm not really familiar with the technology
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| 16:46 | <chrisinajar> there are mobos with external
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| 16:46 | <Gadi> right
| |
| 16:46 | but, the admin does not expect someone to walk up with an external sata drive?
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| 16:46 | <vagrantc> so how do you distinguish external from internal sata, then?
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| 16:46 | <Gadi> to a thin client
| |
| 16:46 | remember our use case
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| 16:46 | <vagrantc> common use cases
| |
| 16:47 | * vagrantc has no idea how common external sata drives are or will be | |
| 16:47 | <vagrantc> i'm always about 5 years behind the times, remember :)
| |
| 16:47 | <Gadi> would you want someone to have access to internal sata drive but not external?
| |
| 16:47 | or vice versa?
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| 16:47 | <chrisinajar> Gadi: on the other hand, a lot of places convert their desktops to thin clients as apposed to upgrading them. That's what we run into really really regularly...
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| 16:47 | <Gadi> right
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| 16:47 | I dont dispute that
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| 16:48 | I am just saying, a person using LOCALDEV_DENY is doing so for a reason
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| 16:48 | <chrisinajar> so if a place supports external drives, say an artsy place...
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| 16:48 | <vagrantc> LOCALDEV_DENY_USB, LOCALDEV_DENY_FIREWIRE ... those are easy.
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| 16:48 | <chrisinajar> i think external drives should be catagorized with USB sticks and stuff
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| 16:48 | <vagrantc> LOCALDEV_DENY_FLOPPY will require a little work, but actually not too bad.
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| 16:48 | <Gadi> fine - but artsy place+external sata drive?
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| 16:48 | <vagrantc> Gadi: well, i will set a default for LOCALDEV_DENY on Debian
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| 16:49 | <Gadi> that wants to not use internal sata drive?
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| 16:49 | <vagrantc> chrisinajar: how do you distinguish external from internal sata on a programmatic level?
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| 16:49 | <chrisinajar> does HAL know?
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| 16:50 | <vagrantc> and i guess, technically there's external scsi and even ata ... but i'm willing to let that slide
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| 16:50 | <Gadi> you know, there are internal USB ports, too :P
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| 16:50 | I think it is an overcomplication
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| 16:50 | <chrisinajar> only modern boards have the external sata, so we can assume as much...
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| 16:50 | Gadi: i think if it's possible, we should support it...
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| 16:50 | <Gadi> this is not a qu of supporting it
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| 16:50 | <vagrantc> chrisinajar: patches gladly accepted :)
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| 16:50 | <chrisinajar> haha, that's true :-P
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| 16:50 | <Gadi> this is a qu of supporting the ability to disable an external sata but keep an internal one enabled
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| 16:51 | or vice versa
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| 16:51 | <vagrantc> LOCALDEV_ALLOW ?
| |
| 16:51 | that would be tricky to implement, though...
| |
| 16:51 | <Gadi> do you really see an admin requiring that ? or not willing to work around it?
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| 16:51 | <vagrantc> well, actually, we just need to change the LOCALDEV_DENY rules into a function ...
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| 16:52 | <Gadi> if I am the admin, I either disable all SATA and use external USB/FW drives OR allow all SATA and remove the internal sata drive
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| 16:52 | <vagrantc> let's implement it when they want it. :)
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| 16:52 | <Gadi> :)
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| 16:52 | <vagrantc> LOCALDEV_DENY_LOTSA_DISK_TYPES=true
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| 16:56 | captain_1agnus is now known as captain_magnus | |
| 16:58 | <vagrantc> Gadi: what sort of problems did you have with space-separated values?
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| 17:01 | warren has quit IRC | |
| 17:04 | <vagrantc> seems like SATA comes out as ID_BUS scsi anyways ...
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| 17:05 | not sure on anything other than Debian etch, though (only machine i have access to with sata
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| 17:05 | i bet a lot of device types look like scsi devices
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| 17:06 | <Gadi> vagrantc: space-separated values also need to be quoted in lts.conf
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| 17:06 | <vagrantc> Gadi: ok.
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| 17:07 | <stgraber> E: ID_TYPE=disk
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| 17:07 | E: ID_BUS=scsi
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| 17:07 | that's for my iinternal HDD in my lappy
| |
| 17:07 | *internal
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| 17:07 | <Gadi> but, in general, they can be hard to work with when you need a for loop
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| 17:07 | <vagrantc> stgraber: OS and kernel?
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| 17:07 | <stgraber> 2.6.27 Ubuntu
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| 17:07 | <vagrantc> ok.
| |
| 17:07 | that's pretty much the same as what i saw ...
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| 17:07 | so nothing special to handle serial ata
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| 17:08 | LOCALDEV_DENY_INTERNAL_HDD seems kind of long for a variable name...
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| 17:08 | lot of room for typos
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| 17:08 | and foggy memories
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| 17:10 | what about simply LOCALDEV_DENY_HARDDISK ?
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| 17:10 | <Gadi> does that deny usb hdd?
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| 17:10 | <vagrantc> no
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| 17:10 | <Gadi> im confused
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| 17:10 | ;)
| |
| 17:10 | <vagrantc> ok.
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| 17:10 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 17:10 | <vagrantc> i figured we could handle that in documentation, then.
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| 17:11 | but maybe it's way too vague
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| 17:11 | LOCALDEV_DENY_DOWHATIMEANNOTWHATISAY
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| 17:12 | chrisinajar has quit IRC | |
| 17:12 | <Gadi> aliases will be boolean, right?
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| 17:12 | <alkisg> How about LOCALDEV_DENY=pata,scsi etc.... (comma seperated values, not just True/False)
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| 17:12 | <vagrantc> Gadi: yes
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| 17:13 | alkisg: already have that, these are "simple" aliases to extend on that with
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| 17:13 | <Gadi> alkisg: LOCALDEV_DENY is already more flexible than that
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| 17:13 | these are the simpler aliases
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| 17:13 | <alkisg> Ah, ok, shutting up... :)
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| 17:14 | <Gadi> I assume LOCALDEV_DENY_INTERNAL_HDD will default to True
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| 17:14 | upstream
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| 17:14 | <vagrantc> it's really just trying to come up with a simple enough name to warrant a boolean that handles ata, scsi and sata drives ...
| |
| 17:14 | don't know if pata are any different
| |
| 17:14 | Gadi: i'm not sure about upstream, but definitely in Debian.
| |
| 17:14 | <Gadi> I think upstream should strive to have secure defaults
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| 17:15 | <vagrantc> sounds reasonable, and makes it easier on me :)
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| 17:15 | <Gadi> much like defaulting to ldm with directx off
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| 17:15 | does your patch implement the mount options, too?
| |
| 17:15 | <vagrantc> of course, then we automatically enable this feature and the whole "it shouldn't break anything" doesn't quite hold true
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| 17:15 | Gadi: nope
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| 17:16 | Gadi: one feature at a time :)
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| 17:16 | <Gadi> :)
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| 17:16 | yes, yes
| |
| 17:17 | <vagrantc> so far i've got simple code for LOCALDEV_DENY_USB, LOCALDEV_DENY_FLOPPY ... and still struggling for a name for the LOCALDEV_DENY_INTERNAL_DRIVES_OF_YOUR_TYPICAL_TYPES
| |
| 17:18 | <Gadi> vagrantc: do the floppies and cdroms get triggered in initramfs's udev?
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| 17:18 | or are they OS-present?
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| 17:18 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i don't think so
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| 17:18 | haven't seen it, anyways.
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| 17:18 | <Gadi> ok
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| 17:19 | because we may not have an lts.conf in /etc at that point
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| 17:19 | :)
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| 17:19 | rcy has quit IRC | |
| 17:19 | <Gadi> oh
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| 17:19 | it's handles by delayed mounter anyways
| |
| 17:19 | so we just need to make sure its not in ltspfs_fstab
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| 17:20 | <vagrantc> i have been testing these patches :)
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| 17:25 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 17:27 | gotta go - vagrantc, I'll keep an eye out for the push notification :)
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| 17:28 | l8r
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| 17:28 | Gadi has left #ltsp | |
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| 17:34 | <vagrantc> LOCALDEV_DENY_CDROM ?
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| 17:46 | <vagrantc> hmmm... LOCALDEV_DENY_INTERNAL_DISK ... is that sufficient?
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| 18:19 | * Ryan52 hates how launchpad sets the to address to me. it's more of a ml than to me directly. and it screws up my searches. | |
| 18:20 | <X0d_of_N0d> Is anyone who has used hardy ltsp using intrepid ltsp?
| |
| 18:21 | <stgraber> yes
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| 18:21 | <Ryan52> X0d_of_N0d: do you have a real question?
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| 18:21 | * vagrantc commits LOCALDEV_DENY patches | |
| 18:21 | <Ryan52> if so, then please do ask.
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| 18:21 | <X0d_of_N0d> Ryan52: well, I was wondering if anyone noticed a performance difference between the two....
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| 18:22 | <johnny> Ryan52, you have to search by the headers
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| 18:22 | <X0d_of_N0d> Ryan52: so if no one in here used it, then there wouldn't be any point in asking my second question
| |
| 18:22 | <johnny> launchapd has interesting headers
| |
| 18:22 | lots of poeple are using intrepidltsp
| |
| 18:22 | including myself
| |
| 18:22 | i don't know any performances differences
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| 18:23 | i noticed it is much more stable
| |
| 18:23 | my gnome sessions don't die anymore
| |
| 18:23 | and leave with just a background and a taskbar
| |
| 18:23 | err
| |
| 18:23 | leave just a background with no taskbars
| |
| 18:23 | i upgraded more for features and stabilizity
| |
| 18:24 | localapps support
| |
| 18:26 | uggh.. i hate nvidia :(
| |
| 18:26 | what am i supposed to do to configure my cards if i don't want an xorg.conf :(
| |
| 18:27 | <stgraber> I'm still working on it (init script remaining ...) but Jaunty's LTSP will probably be a lot better and likely more stable too :) It's basically Intrepid's feature but well integrated and with I hope working auto-detection (I still have some broken hardware at the office) and a way to manually set most of the settings (xrandr, dpms, .. well Gadi's stuff)
| |
| 18:27 | johnny: with the binary drivers you need a minimal xorg.conf to make it load
| |
| 18:27 | <johnny> actually you don't
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| 18:27 | <stgraber> johnny: otherwise it'll load the opensource one
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| 18:27 | <johnny> mine loads nvidia just fine :)
| |
| 18:27 | without an xorg.conf
| |
| 18:27 | <stgraber> oh ?
| |
| 18:28 | <johnny> the new xorg server seems to do the right thing afaict
| |
| 18:28 | <stgraber> ok, so Xorg's driver choosing logic is really weird
| |
| 18:28 | <X0d_of_N0d> stgraber: so have you noticed any performance difference in X?
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| 18:28 | X0d_of_N0d has quit IRC | |
| 18:28 | <stgraber> didn't quite have the time to answer that one I'm affraid :)
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| 18:28 | <johnny> stgraber, this is newer behaviour
| |
| 18:28 | <stgraber> on my lappy (ATI binary) I need a xorg.conf or it'll load the radeon driver
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| 18:29 | <johnny> you're using intrepid?
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| 18:29 | <stgraber> yep
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| 18:29 | <johnny> sure you didn't have that behaviour from before?
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| 18:29 | <stgraber> nope, I only ran intrepid on that lappy :)
| |
| 18:29 | <johnny> hmm.. who knows then..
| |
| 18:29 | at least the ati card i have in another machine
| |
| 18:29 | works with xrandr with the radeon driver
| |
| 18:30 | makes me happy
| |
| 18:30 | <stgraber> yeah, mine too except I just don't get 3D and AIGLX :)
| |
| 18:30 | <johnny> really?
| |
| 18:30 | :(
| |
| 18:30 | wrong card then
| |
| 18:30 | <stgraber> yeah, I've one of the new Radeon HD ... so basically I get 2D working
| |
| 18:30 | <johnny> stgraber, on fedora10.. you'd possibly get flickrfree bootup
| |
| 18:31 | between plymouth and gdm
| |
| 18:31 | <stgraber> well, I only boot once a month, so I don't really care :)
| |
| 18:31 | the only feature I need is suspend-to-ram and I'm happy
| |
| 18:31 | <johnny> hmm.. suspend-to-ram doesn't cut it for me sadly..
| |
| 18:31 | it means i'm offline
| |
| 18:31 | i want a beagleboard
| |
| 18:31 | or something similiar..
| |
| 18:32 | i wonder if i could gut this laptop and put a beagleboard in it :)
| |
| 18:32 | i'd probably be able to have something as thin as a macbook air.. :)
| |
| 18:33 | X0d_of_N0d has joined #ltsp | |
| 18:33 | <johnny> X0d_of_N0d, i don't think any of us have noticed any performance difference..
| |
| 18:34 | seems the same
| |
| 18:34 | the real problem for me.. is all kernels since cfq got merged
| |
| 18:34 | it sucks on a desktop :(
| |
| 18:35 | <stgraber> X0d_of_N0d: I'm using really big LTSP networks, so that mean the application servers are extremely powerful and so does my thin clients. I always had local-like performance on that setup.
| |
| 18:37 | <johnny> stgraber, hook it up
| |
| 18:37 | gimme some of your machines :)
| |
| 18:37 | rcy has joined #ltsp | |
| 18:37 | <johnny> hehe
| |
| 18:38 | <stgraber> johnny: nah, that's my quadcores, well rather our customer's :)
| |
| 18:38 | but you need that to handle 5k thin clients
| |
| 18:40 | <johnny> stgraber, i need th thin clients ;)
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| 18:58 | <X0d_of_N0d> hum...thanx
| |
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| 19:34 | <sbalneav> Evening all
| |
| 19:34 | <vagrantc> heya
| |
| 19:34 | <stgraber> hey sbalneav
| |
| 19:35 | <sbalneav> Hey stgraber & vagrantc
| |
| 19:35 | heh
| |
| 19:35 | too much docbook
| |
| 19:35 | <stgraber> sbalneav: did too much html recently ? :)
| |
| 19:36 | <vagrantc> happy to say i haven't sufferred any docbook today...
| |
| 19:36 | all shell and udev, for me.
| |
| 19:37 | <stgraber> well, I'd prefer doing some docbook than debuging some udev rules :)
| |
| 19:37 | at least that's the feeling I got last time I had to debug the ltsp udev rules, basically working a day to only change the sequence number ...
| |
| 19:37 | <vagrantc> it was mostly gutting the udev rules, so it wasn't so bad :)
| |
| 19:38 | <sbalneav> I'm going to be doing more "manual" labour tonight. :)
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| 19:38 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 20:02 | <vagrantc> night all
| |
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| 20:50 | chrisinajar has joined #ltsp | |
| 20:51 | <chrisinajar> ugh... the shereton in boston uses actual routing rules to force you to use their guest login page as apposed to just a proxy...
| |
| 20:53 | <loather-work> heh, so it's a real captive portal
| |
| 20:55 | davidj has joined #ltsp | |
| 20:55 | <davidj> Anyone here using evolution email a lot? I'm seeing weird freezes from time to time, evolution has the CPU pegged at 100%.
| |
| 20:55 | <chrisinajar> indeed. I was expecting a little ssh -D to let me do whatever I wanted :-P
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| 21:05 | jammcq has joined #ltsp | |
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| 21:05 | <jammcq> hello #ltsp
| |
| 21:05 | <chrisinajar> howdy!
| |
| 21:11 | <davidj> how do, jammcq
| |
| 21:11 | food healing nicely
| |
| 21:11 | <jammcq> food ?
| |
| 21:12 | <davidj> food, foot, it seems I eat both lately.
| |
| 21:12 | ;-)
| |
| 21:20 | <sbalneav> Hello davidj
| |
| 21:20 | I'm working on a massive re-org of the docs, to get them into much, MUCH more sane sections.
| |
| 21:21 | <davidj> I thought you wanted me to do that massive reorg ;-)
| |
| 21:21 | <sbalneav> I should have ltsp-docs-trunk pushed up in another hour.
| |
| 21:21 | <davidj> ..to match the massive reorg I did of the bones in my foot.
| |
| 21:21 | (doc says it's really only a minor reorg, won't even need a rebuild)
| |
| 21:22 | * sbalneav refrains from making the joke that he wants the first reorg to turn out better than the second. | |
| 21:22 | <davidj> he
| |
| 21:22 | <sbalneav> I would never, EVER make a joke like that
| |
| 21:22 | uh, uh
| |
| 21:22 | <davidj> Of course you wouldn't.
| |
| 21:22 | <sbalneav> Oh, geez!
| |
| 21:22 | Can you guys see what I'm thinking????
| |
| 21:22 | GET OUT OF MY HEEEEAAAAAADDDDD
| |
| 21:23 | <Ryan52> heh
| |
| 21:23 | <sbalneav> "I seem to have lost my internal monologue"
| |
| 21:23 | * jammcq knows exactly what sbalneav is thinking | |
| 21:23 | <davidj> Afraid we can't do that. Turns out Homeland Security likes being able to see what's in your head.
| |
| 21:23 | Nope, can't do that. Wouldn't be prudent.
| |
| 21:24 | <sbalneav> Homeland security DEFINITELY shouldn't have any business in my head. CIA, maybe.
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| 21:24 | But the tinfoil hat keeps them away from me.
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| 21:24 | :)
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| 21:24 | <davidj> :)
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| 21:25 | <sbalneav> Anywho, I'll ping you in a bit.
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| 21:25 | <davidj> sbalneav: I've got to deliver a big project tomorrow, burning the midnight oil. I think I'll sign off now. Can you send me an email when you're ready? I'll get to it later this week.
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| 21:25 | <sbalneav> gotta get back to majjjjjjjjjjd'a45kP
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| 21:25 | Okeidoke
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| 21:26 | <davidj> thanks. Good night.
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| 21:26 | <sbalneav> NP
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| 23:02 | <Ryan52> sbalneav: do you just use a regular old editor for the docbook stuff, or do you use somethin specifically for docbook editing?
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| 23:02 | <sbalneav> Ryan52: I'd hardly call vim a "regular old editor" :)
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| 23:03 | Just vim.
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| 23:03 | <kaos01_> hi, trying to get ltsp5 workingon fedora, when i add eth0 to the bridge interface networkign seems to die
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| 23:03 | <Ryan52> sbalneav: but does it do anything special or just show you xml?
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| 23:03 | <sbalneav> I haven't ever found an editor that handles docbook, and I want the formatting to be preserved, since it helps me to debug.
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| 23:04 | <twb> conglomerate
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| 23:04 | <kaos01_> do i need to enable ip forwarding also ?
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| 23:04 | <sbalneav> Ryan52: Just shows me the XML. Only niceity's I've got on are syntax hightlighting, and autoindent.
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| 23:04 | twb: Looked at conglomorate
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| 23:04 | <twb> Yeah, it's flaky as hell
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| 23:04 | <sbalneav> Threw it out in about 10 seconds.
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| 23:04 | <twb> That's why I use reST instead of docbook
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| 23:06 | <sbalneav> represenational state transfer?
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| 23:06 | <twb> No, restructured text.
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| 23:06 | http://docutils.sf.net/
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| 23:08 | <sbalneav> Not for me, thanks.
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| 23:08 | Too many years invested in docbook :)
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| 23:11 | <sbalneav> !doco
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| 23:11 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: "doco" is you can find the link to the latest, and most current upstream documentation at: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 23:12 | <sbalneav> Anyone who's interested, massive restructuring to the docs, more stuff documented, and a lot of cleanup
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| 23:14 | <Ryan52> 14.4 doesn't mention LDM_AUTOLOGIN, and it probably should.
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| 23:15 | hrm. /me sees no example. "An example will serve to illustrate how to use this:"
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| 23:16 | see, I would do more than just tell you this, but my writing skillz (if they can even be called skillz) suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.
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| 23:17 | <twb> Certainly they would not be called "skillz"
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| 23:18 | <Ryan52> :P
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| 23:18 | <sbalneav> 14.7's got more detail, but certainly, an example would be handy in 14.4
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| 23:19 | assert(build_rome == 1)
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| 23:19 | Error: assertion failed: build_rome != 1
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| 23:20 | <Ryan52> what's that mean? 0_o
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| 23:20 | * Ryan52 feels confused | |
| 23:21 | <johnny> rome wasn't built in a day
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| 23:21 | Ryan52, common expression about how huge things take a long time :)
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| 23:21 | huge efforts*
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| 23:21 | <Ryan52> oh, ya, I get that. the assert part confused me >.<
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| 23:22 | <johnny> hehe
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| 23:24 | <sbalneav> If I've confused at least one person today, it was a good day.
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| 23:24 | <twb> Why would `build_rome' be an integer in the first place?
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| 23:24 | <Ryan52> exactly!
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| 23:24 | <twb> It sounds like a procedure to me.
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| 23:26 | The problem with pseudocode is that not only is it incomprehensible to your readers, it's incomprehensible to the computer, too.
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| 23:29 | <Ryan52> at least the author can (usually) understand it :P
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| 23:30 | <twb> Well, at the time of writing
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| 23:30 | Not the author's future self, I expect
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| 23:33 | <alkisg> sbalneav, in chapter 20, `apt-get install italc-client` should be italc-master
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| 23:34 | <johnny> all programming languages are pseudo code to the machine language ;)
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| 23:35 | <twb> johnny: hardly.
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| 23:35 | johnny: they are *isomorphic* languages.
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| 23:37 | <cyberorg> it would be nice if the doc were in wiki format, we can go and fix things or add missing parts
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| 23:37 | <twb> cyberorg: but then they wouldn't be printable
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| 23:37 | <cyberorg> twb, there are scripts that convert wiki to docbook
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| 23:37 | <twb> Crappy scripts.
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| 23:39 | <johnny> you can check out the repo and edit it just fine too
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| 23:39 | <sbalneav> cyberorg: What's stopping you creating a branch I can merge from? :)
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| 23:40 | <cyberorg> sbalneav, i was commenting on things like "<alkisg> sbalneav, in chapter 20, `apt-get install italc-client` should be italc-master"
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| 23:40 | <sbalneav> alkisg: ok, I've never used italc, so I'll take your word for it.
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| 23:40 | cyberorg: We had docs in wiki. wiki.ltsp.org. Checked out what it looks like lately? :)
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| 23:40 | <alkisg> sbalneav, (thanks for the docs!) - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/iTalc
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| 23:41 | <cyberorg> sbalneav, yeah, i keep putting in missing information three sometimes
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| 23:42 | <sbalneav> wiki's tend to devolve into a disasterous mess, unless you have a very, VERY committed individual, or team, to CONSTANTLY clean them up.
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| 23:45 | committed, pushed, and wiki page updated.
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| 23:46 | <twb> sbalneav: what they turn into, above all else, is a bunch of lists
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| 23:57 | <sbalneav> Phhht, well that was silly
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| 23:57 | So, vagrantc wanted a text version
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| 23:57 | so, run docbook2txt, right?
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| 23:58 | bleh, all I get is HTML
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| 23:58 | Why? Apparently, the backend converts to html, then passes through lynx to do the text conversion. I didn't have lynx installed.
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| 23:59 | but it never gave an error.
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| 23:59 | Wierd.
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