IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 8 March 2013 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:00 | <ltspuser_23> i need help for insrallinf LTSP SERVER IN BOSS LINUX
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| 04:03 | <alkisg> ltspuser_23: is that similar to debian squeeze? what problem are you having?
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| 06:03 | <alkisg> Good morning
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| 06:13 | <muppis> Cold morning.
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| 06:59 | <pap> Καλημέρα, πώς πήγε χθες;
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| 07:00 | <alkisg> !greek
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| 07:00 | <ltsp> greek: Στο παρόν κανάλι μιλάνε μόνο Αγγλικά, για υποστήριξη στα Ελληνικά από την υπηρεσία Τεχνικής Στήριξης ΣΕΠΕΗΥ διαβάστε το http://ts.sch.gr/wiki/IRC και στη συνέχεια πληκτρολογήστε /j #ts.sch.gr
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| 07:00 | <pap> Ο fat του εργαστηρίου, ενώ έμπαινε κανονικά, τώρα σταματά και η τελευταία γραμμή γράφει "checking battery status"
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| 07:00 | <alkisg> pap: διάβασε λίγο την παραπάνω γραμμή
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| 07:01 | Εδώ είναι το αγγλικό κανάλι
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| 07:01 | <pap> ok, i will log on from ΣΕΠΠΕΥ,
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| 09:40 | <meamy> mm is it in general possible to start two ldm sessions on one client? At the moment i have one xfreerdp session on SCREEN_02 and one ldm session on SCREEN_07, when i add SCREEN_03=ldm to the lts.conf just the ldm session on SCREEN_07 starts . SCREEN_02 and 03 are empty did not found any usefull error messages jet. anyone have experience with two ldm session on one client? i would love to be able to switch between Users without logout/login every
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| 09:40 | time
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| 09:43 | <muppis> Firstly comes to my mind that LDM was not desinged to be running twice on same machine so it might use some hardcoded filenames and session starting to screen 7 overwrites session started to screen 3.
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| 09:43 | <meamy> a good morning every one bye the way :D
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| 09:43 | <muppis> It's just my 2 cents.
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| 09:43 | It's noon already. ;)
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| 09:49 | <meamy> muppis: that would not explain why the xfreerdp session also is not starting. I have more the felling that I'm running in some kind of fallback default setting but unfortunately there is no central place for the default conf for the different settings they all hide some where in the bash scripts. My body Clock says it is morning and thats override the System time by default in my Mind.conf
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| 09:51 | <muppis> There can be a change that parsing of lts.conf fails due double definition of ldm sessions.
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| 09:51 | Lunch time!
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| 10:57 | <meamy> muppis: ok its definitely possible to run 2 ldm sessions (i did it by making chmod 777 /var/run/ldm-xauth-blabla/Xauthority and mounting the home dir Manuel and then calling then xinit /usr/share/ltsp/xinitrc) I guess this Xauthority think could be passed by by creating a new one. So there is no design error in the LDM as you mentioned first time. I will stop digging in this direction because I dont want invest to much time into this but would
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| 10:57 | be still interested if somebody has a 2 LDM session setup running and how he did it because my dirty hacks are obviously not a good solution
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| 11:01 | <muppis> Ok.
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| 12:46 | <zamba> when i try starting firefox the screen just blanks and then the X session restarts
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| 12:46 | what can i do to debug this?
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| 12:46 | is this a known problem?
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| 14:22 | <Hyperbyte> zamba, never heard of that happening before. What distribution/version, thin or fat clients, special LTSP version??
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| 14:54 | <jammcq> good morning friends
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| 14:54 | <markit> hi jammcq :)))
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| 14:57 | <jammcq> seems quiet around here
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| 14:59 | * gvy busy testing a new altsp beta image | |
| 15:05 | <Hyperbyte> jammcq, I know. :(
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| 15:05 | I considered having my birthday party in here, but decided against it.
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| 15:05 | <jammcq> is today the day?
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| 15:06 | <Hyperbyte> :-)
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| 15:06 | Yeah. :)
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| 15:06 | I turned 27 today.
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| 15:07 | <jammcq> wow, congrats
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| 15:07 | you are so young
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| 15:07 | I have a daughter that will turn 27 in october
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| 15:07 | <Hyperbyte> Oh!
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| 15:07 | Single?
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| 15:07 | Kidding. :-)
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| 15:09 | <jammcq> heh, no, she got married last year
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| 15:09 | <Hyperbyte> Heheh
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| 15:13 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 15:13 | jammcq!!!
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| 15:13 | How's Naaaaawwwwleans?
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| 15:14 | <jammcq> sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 15:14 | NOLA was great !
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| 15:14 | wasn't so good for my waistline tho
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| 15:14 | but I'll get over that
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| 15:14 | <sbalneav> Eat a po-boy or two? See some jazz? Get some beads?
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| 15:15 | <jammcq> had a shrimp poboy
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| 15:15 | pretty tasty
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| 15:15 | heard lots of jaz
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| 15:15 | jazz
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| 15:15 | no beads tho. that's a mardi-gras thing and that was a couple weeks ago
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| 15:16 | <sbalneav> I am already dreaming of Scoma's
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| 15:17 | <jammcq> heh
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| 15:21 | <markit> Hyperbyte: happy birdthday or whatever is spelled
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| 15:25 | <Hyperbyte> markit, thanks! :-)
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| 15:30 | <gvy> Hyperbyte, hb2u :)
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| 15:39 | <Hyperbyte> :-D
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| 17:13 | <alkisg> sbalneav, knipwim, jammcq, Enslaver, Hyperbyte, stgraber, highvoltage: Here's the proposed new syntax for the configuration files, if you agree we could have it ready before the hackathon:
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| 17:13 | http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Dev:Ltspd
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| 17:14 | I haven't yet written the pros, will do so in a while
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| 17:18 | <jammcq> I would sure like to see stuff indented under the section headers
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| 17:18 | <alkisg> jammcq: that's against the configparser syntax
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| 17:18 | I think it's defined in some RFC
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| 17:19 | It's to allow continuation of multiple lines
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| 17:19 | E.g. VAR=Line 1
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| 17:19 | line 2
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| 17:19 | line 3
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| 17:20 | Otherwise we'd need quoting, and so then it would need escaping for inserting actual quotes,
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| 17:20 | and it would get messy when one wants to enter e.g. a sed line in an RCFILE_0 option
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| 17:22 | "The configuration file consists of sections, led by a [section] header and followed by name: value entries, with continuations in the style of RFC 822 (see section 3.1.1, “LONG HEADER FIELDS”)"
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| 17:22 | <highvoltage> alkisg: looks very much like the old one. it's nice that you wouldn't need a default section anymroe
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| 17:23 | <alkisg> highvoltage: yup, the idea is to allow for some conditionals, e.g. [RAM > 500], without disturbing sysadmins too much with a complete new syntax...
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| 17:24 | The major changes are conditionals, no indentation allowed except for continued lines, no quoting, and [mac] now gets written as [mac = value]
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| 17:24 | <markit> alkisg: ehm, I would propose default / suggested name for ltsp server not being "server" but "ltspserver" or something more unique ;P
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| 17:24 | <alkisg> markit: that's not related to the configuration changes though :)
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| 17:24 | Let's not mix subjects
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| 17:26 | <markit> alkisg: the friend of mine that is installing ltsp in 4 schools, has some problems with a "monster" server (2 cpu, 64 gb ram, 4 nic). Was not able to make it work with 32 bit ubuntu, was very unstable. 64 bit seems to work fine. Now has some "random" problems with clients, sometime someone has no panel or is missing some icons... did it happen to you sometime? Client hw is not very good, nor he is sure about cabling
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| 17:26 | alkisg: ups, did not realize you were discussing that topic, sorry
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| 17:26 | <alkisg> markit: KDE?
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| 17:26 | <markit> I queue up
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| 17:26 | alkisg: no, gnome fallback
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| 17:26 | <alkisg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/1078679
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| 17:27 | <markit> but is not urgent, define your config stuff first ;P
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| 17:27 | alkisg: oh, we use greep repo, so is just a matter of wait and update? great
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| 17:28 | <alkisg> markit: no
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| 17:28 | The update will come as part of "sch-scripts"
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| 17:28 | Not from "gnome-panel"
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| 17:28 | <markit> I see... I'll point him to that bug imediately, thanks a lot
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| 17:30 | <markit> funny, he deployed already 2 schools, but had this issue only now on the last one
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| 17:30 | that was the more "unstable"
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| 17:31 | (64 bit, biprocessor, cabling uncrtain in quality, etc..)
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| 17:48 | <vmlintu> markit: what kind of problems were there with 32bit installation? Did it freeze or something like that?
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| 17:49 | <markit> vmlintu: he told me that unity was very sluggish, mouse movements and so on
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| 17:50 | <vmlintu> markit: ok.. never tried running unity on server hardware, so cannot say much..
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| 17:51 | well, never really run X on server hardware..
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| 17:53 | alkisg: are there parsers for other languages?
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| 17:53 | <alkisg> vmlintu: languages?
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| 17:53 | configparser parses ini-style configuration files
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| 17:54 | <alkisg> shlex helps a bit in parsing shell syntax
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| 17:54 | compile() can parse a python file...
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| 17:54 | Is that what you're asking?
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| 17:54 | You could easily extend the ltspd daemon with a python module...
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| 17:54 | <vmlintu> If I'd need to parse those config files on ruby, is there something available?
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| 17:55 | <alkisg> Ah. I guess so, .ini files are one of the most common formats
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| 17:56 | <vmlintu> I really don't know much on .ini file and what parsers support..
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| 17:56 | Can one use real arrays in them?
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| 17:57 | Personally I do not like the XXX_0, XXX_1 style
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| 17:58 | <alkisg> vmlintu: all those values are supposed to be exported on the client environment so that bash scripts can act on them
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| 17:58 | Errr actually shell scripts, not bash scripts
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| 17:58 | Those don't support arrays
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| 17:58 | That's why we also don't want the server side to support arrays...
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| 17:58 | But it'll be easy now to have multiline values
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| 17:59 | So e.g. instead of FSTAB_0 to 9, one could have FSTAB=Line 1
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| 17:59 | line 2 etc etc
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| 17:59 | But that only makes sense in some cases... e.g. on XRANDR and on RCFILE as well
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| 17:59 | But not on all of them
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| 17:59 | XRANDR_COMMAND=multiline, RCFILE=multiline...
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| 18:00 | The downside is that you cannot add one line from a later configuration file without overriding the older value
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| 18:00 | <vmlintu> yes, multiline makes things nicer
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| 18:05 | <vmlintu> alkisg: about puavo-tftpd - it's been now in use without problems this week.. We'll do some cpu optimisations for it, though, as some ruby functions turned out to be quite slow..
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| 18:06 | <markit> vmlintu: he was installing ltsp and setting it up. In any case, in "my" schools we use the server as workstation for the teacher, and indeed has some risk
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| 18:07 | <alkisg> vmlintu: hmmm I want to get the opportunity to introduce a new configuration system now with ltsp6, but I don't feel confident enough to propose puavo-tftpd because it hasn't been extensively used yet and I haven't even see it ... :-/
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| 18:08 | <alkisg> An "ltsp-config apply" command will be able to generate pxelinux.cfg/01-mac files from the /etc/ltsp/config.d/* files, if that helps
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| 18:08 | So we'll also be able to do [MAC = xxx] KERNEL_PARAMS=yyy
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| 18:08 | And if someone cares, we can also put DHCP options support there as well
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| 18:09 | All those, plus a GUI editor, should be good enough for both simple and advanced users... I hope
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| 18:11 | But if puavo-tftpd proves to be stable enough, I'd suggest that you submit it at least to debian/ubuntu, so that people can install that as a tftp server and get advantage of the new possibilities it offers
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| 18:12 | If you could also put proxydhcp support in it (it should be very simple, in java it's just a few lines), then people wouldn't even need a dhcp server either
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| 18:12 | * markit googling for puavo-tftpd but github page tells nothing about features and also what it is (I guess a tftp server from it's name) | |
| 18:14 | <alkisg> markit: search the irclogs for it
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| 18:14 | <vmlintu> yes, it's still really early in life cycle.. we are not really pushing it yet for outside use yet before we have it running on more servers..
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| 18:14 | <markit> thanks but really developers should put some lines about the generic features of their projects!
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| 18:15 | vmlintu: oh, you one of the devs, read my comments then ;P
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| 18:15 | btw, why ruby? I use it for ruby on rails devs, and I've done some scripts that help me install and configure ltsp, but most people use Python
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| 18:15 | <vmlintu> markit: yes.. I've been working on docs on and off..
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| 18:15 | <markit> I feel less alone now ;P
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| 18:16 | <vmlintu> our management tools are all written in ruby
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| 18:16 | Other stuff mostly on nodejs
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| 18:17 | <markit> I see
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| 18:18 | I've to leave now, thanks a lot bye
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| 19:59 | <ltspuser_76> My client boot failure is due to NFS refusing connectio to an "unmatched host". I don't know what that means. Using 'range' in dhcpd.conf and thought that would avoid this. Do I need a host file entry or something with the client's MAC address?
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| 20:41 | <ltspuser_76> FWIW My problem is solved: I was missing a '5' in a 255 in the export file :( . What's nice is that I can run the Scientific Linux env. on a P3 866 with 128MB of RAM. Nice work devs. thanks.
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| 21:08 | * gvy runs current ALTSP on 32M RAM, a clear regression from 16M five years ago :-/ | |
| 21:10 | <vagrantc> what version of LTSP?
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| 21:11 | <gvy> same 5.1
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| 21:12 | took some time for a forward port but didn't quite make through (and there were things going to change so postponed it for a week or two, that is came back in a year)
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| 21:12 | the regression is due to generic kernel :)
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| 21:17 | <vagrantc> it seems kind of implausible and still running current software ... X alone on my machine is taking 10-30MB of ram, depending on how you count it
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| 21:17 | what corners are cut?
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| 21:19 | <gvy> X: ~8M i586, ~16M x86_64
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| 21:19 | RSS
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| 21:19 | <vagrantc> mine was on i686
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| 21:20 | built for i486
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| 21:20 | <gvy> X seems to take varied amounts of memory depending on the total available
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| 21:21 | <vagrantc> also depending on what's actually running
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| 21:21 | <gvy> messing with today's images, yesterday's snapshot is available here just in case: ftp://ftp.linux.kiev.ua/pub/Linux/ALT/people/mike/iso/terminal/
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| 21:21 | <vagrantc> i.e. how many clients are displayed
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| 21:21 | <gvy> yup
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| 21:21 | it's for a kdm
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| 21:21 | <vagrantc> gvy: do you have any commits for upstream ltsp?
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| 21:21 | <gvy> vagrantc, I have to catch up as usual :-)
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| 21:22 | the changes I've seen during that attempt were okay
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| 21:22 | and I'm all for upstream merge as always
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| 21:28 | 11M X RSS (i586) given TDE session + firefox
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| 21:28 | @32M RAM
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| 22:08 | <vagrantc> hrm.
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| 22:13 | * vagrantc is having trouble reproducing http://bugs.debian.org/701916 a.k.a. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1093144 | |
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| 22:13 | <vagrantc> can't hardly justify fixing it if I can't reproduce it
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| 22:14 | * vagrantc attempts to summon alkisg | |
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| 22:32 | * alkisg got summoned by vagrantc... :D | |
| 22:34 | * vagrantc bows thankfully | |
| 22:34 | <vagrantc> alkisg: do you have a way to reliably reproduce the "programs continue to run after logout" problem?
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| 22:35 | <alkisg> vagrantc: it depends on the apps that are running, but no I haven't pinpoint which of them reproduce the problem,
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| 22:35 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i'm trying to verify it with the unpatched verson, but everything works as expected :)
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| 22:35 | <alkisg> i.e. I've seen installations where it doesn't happen, and installations where it always happens,
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| 22:35 | but, here's another part that you can always verify:
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| 22:35 | ls ~/.gvfs
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| 22:35 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i've tried with icewm + iceweasel, lxde + iceweasel + leafpad + random otehr stuff, xfce ... they all work as expected
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| 22:35 | <alkisg> On first login that works
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| 22:36 | On second login, it says something about pipe disconnected
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| 22:36 | While with the patch it does work
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| 22:36 | That's always reproducible, even on installations where the sshfs problem doesn't appear
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| 22:37 | <vagrantc> lxde doesn't apparently mount ~/.gvfs at all
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| 22:39 | <alkisg> Btw, some reading for afterwards: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Dev:Ltspd
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| 22:39 | A proposal for a new configuration system - although I haven't yet written the pros and cons
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| 22:41 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i'm having zero luck reproducing this problem ...
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| 22:41 | <alkisg> I've seen it with gnome and kde
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| 22:41 | I haven't tried lxde/xfce...
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| 22:41 | * vagrantc was going to try gnome next | |
| 22:42 | <alkisg> $ grep gvfs /proc/mounts
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| 22:42 | gvfs-fuse-daemon /home/alkisg/.gvfs fuse.gvfs-fuse-daemon rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=1010,group_id=1010 0 0
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| 22:42 | <vagrantc> also, session saving seems broken again :(
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| 22:42 | <alkisg> In .dmrc? Meh
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| 22:42 | <vagrantc> it's not writing out a .dmrc at all
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| 22:48 | <vagrantc> i should probably reinstall from scratch, just to make sure i haven't manually tweaked soemthing somewhere.
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| 22:50 | * vagrantc wonders if fatclients try to write out ~/.dmrc before or after sshfs is mounted | |
| 22:51 | <alkisg> They write that to the server, don't they?
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| 22:51 | Not in the sshfs mount... but via the socket
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| 22:52 | <vagrantc> thought so ...
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| 23:00 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so, i don't see a .gvfs even in gnome...
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| 23:01 | <vagrantc> alkisg: have you seen this on Debian?
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| 23:05 | <alkisg> vagrantc: do you have gvfs-fuse installed?
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| 23:05 | No I haven't seen it on debian - I have a debian chroot for testing but it's a thin one
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| 23:05 | <vagrantc> nope
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| 23:06 | * vagrantc tests again | |
| 23:09 | <alkisg> The gnome session is started with dbus-launch in front of it, right?
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| 23:10 | <vagrantc> the attempt without gvfs installed was on a thin client
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| 23:11 | and now trying with a fatclient crashes without gnome-fallback kicking in
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| 23:17 | alkisg: with gvfs-fuse installed, it still doesn't create ~/.gvfs ...
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| 23:17 | <alkisg> Meh
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| 23:17 | * vagrantc wonders if ~/.gvfs got replaced by something newer and shinier | |
| 23:18 | <alkisg> And ubuntu still ships it? I wouldn't be surprised at all...
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| 23:18 | But the problem is not limited to .gvfs, it was just easier to reproduce that one
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| 23:18 | * vagrantc can't reproduce the problem at all... | |
| 23:18 | <alkisg> I can get a list of applications that produce the problem next week
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| 23:19 | * vagrantc can't in good confidence upload such an intrusive fix without the ability to reproduce the problem | |
| 23:19 | <alkisg> But i do know it's very common in ubuntu, many teachers reported that (and most wouldn't understand/report it even if it happened)
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| 23:20 | vagrantc: feel free to either close it or lower its significance, I was just trying to help with filing it there
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