IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 13 August 2014 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:42 | <map7> I've setup a LTSP-PNP system under Xbuntu 14.04 and I can boot my fat client, but I cannot access the internet
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| 00:42 | I can do a dns lookup using dig
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| 00:42 | but I cannot ping an outside IP address such as 8.8.8.8
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| 00:44 | <vagrantc> two network cards in your server, or one?
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| 00:44 | <map7> just one
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| 00:44 | here is my dnsmasq ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf file http://pastie.org/9468560
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| 00:47 | here is my lts.conf file http://pastie.org/9468562
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| 00:47 | I'm setting the DNS in my lts.conf file
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| 00:48 | If I boot a none thin client on the network, it gets it's DHCP & DNS configured correctly from the ltsp server
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| 00:49 | <vagrantc> so your LTSP server is handling DHCP?
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| 00:49 | <map7> yes through dnsmasq
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| 00:50 | all other DHCP servers have been turned off on the network
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| 00:50 | and any VPN connections have been closed
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| 00:50 | <vagrantc> from a client: traceroute -n 8.8.8.8
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| 00:51 | map7: and what's in the client's /etc/resolv.conf ?
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| 00:51 | * vagrantc has to head out soon | |
| 00:52 | <vagrantc> map7: try with one or the other DNS_SERVER
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| 00:52 | map7: i.e. DNS_SERVER=8.8.8.8
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| 00:52 | map7: in lts.conf
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| 00:52 | <map7> I don't have traceroute installed yet, in the resolv.conf I've got nameserver 8.8.8.8 & nameserver 208.67.222.222
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| 00:53 | <vagrantc> nevermind, on that, it should support multiple entries in DNS_SERVER
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| 00:53 | well, traceroute will help you figure out where it's not routing...
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| 00:54 | <map7> yep installing now, just have to redo the image
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| 00:54 | and reboot the thin client.
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| 00:56 | * map7 rebuilding image... | |
| 00:59 | * map7 booting thin client | |
| 01:03 | <map7> vagrantc, I just get a heap of asterisks when using traceroute -n 8.8.8.8
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| 01:03 | from 1 to 30
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| 01:04 | dig debian.org seems to be failing with a timed out now on the thin client.
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| 01:04 | but works on the server
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| 01:08 | I'm using dnsmasq 2.68-1, that should be ok shouldn't it?
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| 01:13 | <vagrantc> it's a routing problem, not a dnsmasq problem, per se.
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| 01:13 | anyways, hopefully someone can help you sort it out, i have to head out
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| 01:14 | <map7> vagrantc, cool thanks for pointing me in the right direction, I'll have a look at the routing table
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| 01:14 | <vagrantc> my guess is somehow it's getting told to use a broken route
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| 01:14 | which might be a dnsmasq configuration issue
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| 03:00 | <map7> The default route is different on the client than that on the server, could this be the cause of my issues?
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| 03:22 | Still cannot ping the outside world from a fat client.
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| 03:23 | I'm still thinking that it's something to do with the dnsmasq config.
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| 05:57 | <alkisg> !learn alkisg-todo fix vendor:pxe in ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf and add more options
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| 05:57 | <ltsp> (learn [<channel>] <key> as <value>) -- Associates <key> with <value>. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. The word 'as' is necessary to separate the key from the value. It can be changed to another word via the learnSeparator registry value.
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| 05:57 | <alkisg> !learn alkisg-todo as fix vendor:pxe in ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf and add more options
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| 05:57 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 06:06 | <alkisg> !learn alkisg-todo as change COMPRESS=gzip (19899456 bytes) to either lzma (14710842) or xz (14633624), in /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf
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| 06:06 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 12:55 | <Aetos> Hi people :)
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| 12:55 | I'm encountering a rather odd difficulty regarding my thin client.
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| 12:56 | I installed LTSP on my desktop Ubuntu 12.04
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| 12:56 | and configured it
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| 12:56 | everything seems to be working fine since the client connects to the server
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| 12:56 | starts the loading screen (boot)
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| 12:57 | then ends up in a command line interface
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| 13:05 | I don't know if this will show but here's how my client boots : https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=424254384382014&set=a.424254364382016.1073741832.100003923699120&type=3&theater
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| 13:20 | <Aetos> here's an alternative source for the image
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| 13:20 | https://imageshack.com/i/pd29pJrSj
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| 13:37 | <||cw> that could be a lot of things. often some driver issue. edit the kernel command line and remove "splash quiet" and see if it gives you more info
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| 16:51 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: yay. the ltsp/ldm support for LDM_PASSWORD_HASH is all available in Debian Jessie.
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| 16:52 | although having had ldm migrate, and ltsp get stuck for a few days reminds me of why i wish we put the rc.d hook in ldm itself.
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| 16:52 | i.e. if the corresponding ltsp package isn't installed, the file that LDM generates lingers there idefinitely.
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| 16:53 | maybe ldm should have a clean-up hook of it's own.
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| 18:08 | <sligett> Hi - I'm trying to set up an LTSP server w Linux Mint 17 Mate. I'm getting an error on ltsp-build-client: The following packages have unmet dependencies: mint-meta-core : Depends: mintsources but it is not going to be installed E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
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| 18:09 | Can you suggest fixes, or where to look for fixes? many thanks.
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| 18:21 | <vagrantc> !mint
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| 18:21 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'mint', but I do know about these similar topics: 'LinuxMint'
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| 18:21 | <vagrantc> !linuxmint | echo sligett
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| 18:21 | <ltsp> sligett linuxmint: https://launchpad.net/~bennabiy/+archive/testing Developmental Branch for Mint support
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| 18:21 | <vagrantc> sligett: you might also want to check in with bennabiy
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| 18:23 | <bennabiy> I just happened to check in for a minute. Between 16 and 17 some of the meta packages changed, causing the current method for generating a chroot to fail. I am going to be updating the code soon to pull the right packages.
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| 18:23 | For now, you can do ltsp-build-client --dist trusty --mint-dist none
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| 18:24 | that will build a stock ubuntu chroot, which should be fine for a thin client (since your actual desktop environment would be the mint 17 on the server)
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| 18:24 | For fat client, I am pinning down the order of packages which need to be installed and or removed to make a true mint fat client
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| 18:24 | <vagrantc> does ltsp-pnp work with mint?
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| 18:24 | <bennabiy> the best option for fat client would be ltsp-pnp
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| 18:25 | and then you can take that .img file and decompress it into a folder if you want to modify your image apart from changing your server environment
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| 18:25 | <sligett> Options -- Sounds cool, thanks. In the past, I've had thin clients, and some that ran local apps, but not fat clients.
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| 18:26 | <vagrantc> ltsp-pnp also works fine for thin clients or localapps, it just takes more disk space and longer to build the image.
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| 18:26 | since it's building a fat-client capable image, there's more there
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| 18:26 | <bennabiy> it would be fine for localapps, you can even manually go in and debuntuize the chroot and pull in ldm-mint-theme
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| 18:27 | I cannot stay and talk right now, running wire, but didn't want to leave you hanging
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| 18:27 | I will be around more probably after the weekend
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| 18:27 | <sligett> When I first hear of ltsp-pnp, I couldn't find anything to tell me what it is. I'm guessing "pnp" means plug and play?
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| 18:27 | <bennabiy> !ltsp-pnp | echo sligett
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| 18:27 | <ltsp> sligett ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 18:27 | <sligett> bennabiy - great, thanks.
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| 18:28 | <bennabiy> basically, it uses your server as the basis for generating the client image
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| 18:28 | * bennabiy waves | |
| 18:30 | <sligett> I'll try the build-client with options for now, and then go down the pnp road if need be.
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| 19:25 | <sligett> I got closer, but still not to a running ltsp server. I don't know if it is due to using Mint or not. Here's the errors --
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| 19:25 | Creating config file /etc/default/grub with new version grub-probe: error: cannot find a device for / (is /dev mounted?). grub-probe: error: cannot find a device for /boot (is /dev mounted?). grub-probe: error: cannot find a device for /boot/grub (is /dev mounted?). Processing triggers for libc-bin (2.19-0ubuntu6.1) ... Updating /var/lib/tftpboot directories for chroot: amd64 ionice: executing mksquashfs failed: No such file or direct
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| 19:27 | So, I don't know if the grub-probe errors are the problem, or something related to using amd64 arch. Any clues you can see?
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| 19:44 | <sligett> Hi - anyone out there have a working Linux Mint 17 Mate LTSP server? I can't get ltsp-build-client to succeed.
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| 19:44 | <alkisg> bennabiy: is that the latest mint, including your latest changes? ^
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| 19:45 | vagrantc: # grep COMPRESS /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf
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| 19:45 | # COMPRESS: [ gzip | bzip2 | lzma | lzop | xz ]
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| 19:45 | COMPRESS=gzip
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| 19:45 | !alkisg-todo
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| 19:45 | <ltsp> alkisg-todo: (#1) Hooks for running scripts on these phases: INITRD/INIT/RC/DM/AUTH/LOGIN/SESSION/PERIODIC/LOGOUT/SHUTDOWN, or (#2) implement ltsp-config aoe, or (#3) fix vendor:pxe in ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf and add more options, or (#4) change COMPRESS=gzip (19899456 bytes) to either lzma (14710842) or xz (14633624), in /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf
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| 19:45 | <alkisg> Check the byte difference... I think lzma would make a nice default :)
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| 19:45 | It would speed up client booting a lot
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| 19:49 | <sligett> Yes, I may have to wait until bennabiy drops in again.
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| 19:50 | The ltsp-build-client goes well, until --
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| 19:51 | Creating config file /etc/default/grub with new version grub-probe: error: cannot find a device for / (is /dev mounted?).
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| 20:12 | <alkisg> !pastebin | echo sligett:
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| 20:12 | <ltsp> sligett: pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 20:12 | <alkisg> sligett: you could put all the output there
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| 20:13 | In order for grub-probe to work in a chroot, /dev, /sys etc need to be mounted
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| 20:13 | So either blacklist grub, or use ltsp-chroot -a
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| 20:17 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i got the impression xz replaced/deprecated lzma...
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| 20:19 | alkisg: also, i'm not inclined to change defaults in other packages by default.
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| 20:19 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I think lzma decompression is in-kernel, while xz isn't; initramfs-tools introduced them both at the same time afaik, but I would like to check other distros before selecting one of them...
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| 20:19 | ltsp-config ...
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| 20:19 | <vagrantc> alkisg: if we really want that, we should ask for the default to get changed in Debian/Ubuntu
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| 20:19 | sure, an option to enable it is fine.
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| 20:20 | <alkisg> There's also /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/
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| 20:20 | Defaults in other packages make sense as "defaults"
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| 20:20 | When we install ltsp-client in a system, we significantly change the "defaults"...
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| 20:20 | We don't care about some modules, we care about the others, we care about initramfs size...
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| 20:20 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i've got various XZ options in the debian kerne
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| 20:20 | <alkisg> Heck, previously we even made boot=ltsp default, instead of boot=local...
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| 20:21 | <vagrantc> yeah, but we've been reducing the changes to default by enabling things at runtime
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| 20:21 | <alkisg> Not in initramfs
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| 20:21 | <vagrantc> obviously, initramfs generation can't be done at runtime
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| 20:21 | <alkisg> we can't modify that at runtime
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| 20:21 | Right
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| 20:22 | Well, if we really wanted to, we could re-compress it as part of ltsp-update-kernels
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| 20:22 | * vagrantc wonders if all arches support other initramfs compression types | |
| 20:22 | <alkisg> ltsp-config can check if that file contains COMPRESS=, before offering that option
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| 20:23 | Thus, in e.g. Ubuntu 10.04 it wouldn't offer it
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| 20:23 | <vagrantc> alkisg: but really, if there's a reason to change the default for LTSP, chances are that reason is also true distro-wide.
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| 20:24 | <alkisg> No, because it's a different medium
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| 20:24 | <vagrantc> ?
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| 20:24 | <alkisg> Disks have 50 MB/sec bandwidth, network doesn't
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| 20:24 | <vagrantc> so the bandwidth vs. cpu time tradeoff isn't as good a trade-off?
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| 20:24 | <alkisg> CPU matters more than size while loading an initramfs locally, while bandwidth (size) matters most when netbooting it
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| 20:25 | <vagrantc> alkisg: what kind of numbers did you see so far?
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| 20:25 | <alkisg> I think that benchmarks will show that: "xz is faster for netbooting, gzip is faster for local booting"
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| 20:25 | For netbooting, it's 25% smaller size
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| 20:25 | It would load in e.g. 3 seconds instead of 4
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| 20:26 | <vagrantc> also depends on the hardware ... i.e. using xz requires a lot more ram, i believe
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| 20:26 | <alkisg> If one has a lot of clients, it does make a significant difference
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| 20:26 | I'm not sure about that, because the whole file is in RAM
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| 20:26 | <vagrantc> might bump the minimum ram requirements
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| 20:26 | <alkisg> It's different than decompressing it from disk
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| 20:26 | So, suppose xz is 5 MB smaller, and needs 4 MB more RAM for decompression
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| 20:27 | That would mean that it would need *less* RAM for netbooting
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| 20:27 | <vagrantc> oh, also, the initramfs generated by ubuntu is much larger than the one generated in debian, last i looked.
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| 20:27 | in which case the size savings would likely be less significant
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| 20:27 | <alkisg> True, but I removed a few things and now in 14.04 it's 7 MB smaller
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| 20:27 | It's closer to debian than ever before, nowadays...
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| 20:28 | <vagrantc> well, my basic stance is don't change it if we don't need to, but if there's a strong argument for changing it, make it optional (either opt-out or opt-in).
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| 20:29 | <alkisg> To sum up the argument, I'd say "2 seconds faster boot times, on average, more on slow networks or with a lot of clients"
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| 20:30 | * vagrantc has never been convinced by 20 vs 40 vs 60 second boot times | |
| 20:31 | <alkisg> I like faster booting, but not when it has serious downsides like e.g. being unable to type in initramfs, like plymouth does...
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| 20:31 | That change could even lower the ram requirements... but I'd need to check it out to make sure
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| 20:31 | Anyways, just an idea, nothing significant
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| 20:31 | <vagrantc> the compression/decompression speed differences are also CPU bound, which may impact slower clients
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| 20:33 | if /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/*.conf is an option, though (or /usr/share/initramfs-tools/conf.d) makes divergence more of an option
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| 20:33 | * vagrantc wonders about backportability, too | |
| 20:34 | <vagrantc> although i've done an amazing job of not backporting ltsp this release cycle
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| 20:34 | <alkisg> It's there in wheezy and 12.04, it isn't in 10.04, but adding an unknown variable wouldn't hurt
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| 20:34 | It would just still use gzip
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| 20:35 | Wow, lzop compression doesn't produce smaller size, but it does decompress 300% faster...
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| 20:37 | xz and lzma are about 100% slower
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| 20:41 | <vagrantc> xz/lzma slower in general, or just in decompression?
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| 20:42 | <alkisg> In general
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| 20:42 | On my 5-year old laptop, gzip decompression = 0.5 sec, xz = 1.5 sec. So it would add 1 sec in the boot time (while removing a couple of secs due to the network)
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| 20:42 | <sligett> alkisg: thanks - I'll check w bennabiy. And thanks for the pastebin note.
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| 20:43 | <alkisg> So yeah the savings aren't as great as I imagined them at first
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| 20:43 | sligett: I mean, if you pastebin the output, we might be able to help a bit even without bennably
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| 20:43 | But OK waiting is fine too
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| 20:54 | <sligett> Well, if you see something obvious here, I'll make another attempt. http://pastebin.com/q11GX9zP thanks.
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| 20:58 | <alkisg> sligett: you should also put the full command, and your ltsp-build-client.conf, if you're using one
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| 20:58 | E.g. now we can't even see if you're building a thin or a fat chroot
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| 20:58 | The obvious error is what I said above, about grub being unable to get installed in a chroot without /dev and /sys mounted
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| 21:03 | <sligett> Thank you - I'll make another stab at it tomorrow.
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| 23:06 | <cryptrat> is there anyway to add something like a startup script to thin clients to automount samba shares? kinda like a windows netlogin file?
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| 23:12 | <map7> cryptrat, you can put the shares into your /etc/fstab within your thin client image, or better still just put the fstab lines in your lts.conf file
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| 23:12 | that way you don't need to recompress the image.
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| 23:12 | eg: http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/45/idpl/24005700/numer/5/nazwa/lts.conf
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| 23:39 | <cryptrat> thank you very much
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