IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 24 September 2014 (all times are UTC)
| 00:31 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: Do you know if there is anyone doing anything LTSP related on BSD?
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| 00:31 | I know the L is linux, but would it be possible?
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| 00:48 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: i was at one point afflicted with the idea of running LTSP on Debian GNU/kFreeBSD
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| 00:49 | bennabiy: also did mess around with pcBSD's thin client implementation for a bit
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| 00:49 | <bennabiy> what were your thoughts?
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| 00:49 | <vagrantc> it felt like the 90s
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| 00:50 | <bennabiy> I had someone suggest it today, so it sounded like a challenge for me. Was there compatibility between the existing ldm / ltsp packages and BSD?
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| 00:51 | <vagrantc> there are lots of incompatibilities!
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| 00:51 | <bennabiy> I am guessing that the scripts would all need some heavy work
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| 00:51 | that is what I thought
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| 00:52 | <bennabiy> It seems like at a basic level, getting a PXE boot environment up would not be hard, but to get all the functionality that LTSP awards might be more difficult
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| 00:52 | <vagrantc> periodically i loose my sanity and decide to try it again, but i'm getting more resistant and would rather focus on... the countless bugs we already have that aren't getting much attention
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| 00:53 | in debconf11 i gave a lightning talk about it...
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| 00:53 | <bennabiy> I might have to fire up a BSD VM and see sometime, but I agree... there is already enough to do with what is currently working
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| 00:53 | Was it recorded?
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| 00:53 | <vagrantc> yeah
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| 00:53 | <bennabiy> Is there a way to get it?
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| 00:54 | er, access it
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| 00:54 | <vagrantc> http://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2011/debconf11/
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| 00:56 | <bennabiy> Which BSD would you say would be the most likely to succeed for a securish LTSP/Linux alternative for a lab?
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| 00:57 | well, gotta go. Thank you for the link. I will check it out
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| 00:58 | <vagrantc> no clue
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| 03:06 | work_alkisg is now known as alkisg | |
| 03:12 | <alkisg> vagrantc: ping? re: shutdown time, I fail to understand some of the changes...
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| 03:23 | OK I think I got them, the first problem as you said is that the user doesn't get any visual feedback, and the second is that he also has no way to cancel it
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| 03:24 | But, upon ldm logout, what part of the code shuts down the system?
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| 03:25 | I.e. suppose SHUTDOWN_TIME=12:34:56, and I log out at 12:40, now with I01-halt-check gone, the system won't get powered off, will it?
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| 03:26 | <vagrantc> alkisg: cron will call shutdown directly
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| 03:26 | <alkisg> vagrantc: cron will get called at 12:34
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| 03:26 | And won't do anything because I'm logged in
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| 03:26 | At 12:40, when I actually log out, what code will run?
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| 03:27 | <vagrantc> alkisg: screen-session.d/XS00-halt-reboot
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| 03:28 | <alkisg> Eeerrrr why did we have 2 files for the same thing?
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| 03:29 | <vagrantc> they weren't quite the same thing
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| 03:29 | <alkisg> Why not merge I01-halt-check into XS00-halt-reboot?
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| 03:29 | <vagrantc> i think one of them was implemented before the other
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| 03:29 | <alkisg> So that it also shows a prompt?
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| 03:29 | <vagrantc> alkisg: because it's LDM specific, and XS00-halt-reboot is LTSP related
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| 03:29 | no prompt, just shutdown.
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| 03:30 | i.e. you could use SHUTDOWN_TIME with non-ldm features
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| 03:30 | <alkisg> ...isn't the whole test ! -S ...ldm_socket also ldm specific?
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| 03:30 | <vagrantc> so i haven't changed that behavior
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| 03:30 | alkisg: yes.
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| 03:30 | essentially, there are three features, two of which used the same variable...
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| 03:31 | <alkisg> Supposed we switch to lightdm, why wouldn't we want an ldm_dialog there?
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| 03:31 | <vagrantc> cron was first implemented with SHUTDOWN_TIME, and it just hard powered off the system at the specified time
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| 03:31 | <alkisg> *suppose
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| 03:31 | <vagrantc> we also set up the feature to reboot or halt on logout, based on x properties
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| 03:31 | and then ldm was also implemented
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| 03:32 | <alkisg> OK, the same three things are also valid without ldm
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| 03:32 | <vagrantc> not sure on the order of the second two features, but cron was implemented first
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| 03:32 | alkisg: so, yes, that would be a nice feature improvement.
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| 03:32 | but the way I01-halt-check was implemented was really obnoxious.
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| 03:32 | <alkisg> I'm still not getting it... I01-halt-check isn't ldm-specific, is it?
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| 03:32 | It just shows a dialog
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| 03:33 | <vagrantc> it is, in the sense that it requires code only shipped in ldm
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| 03:33 | <alkisg> Is it because it's using "ldm_dialog"? We can move that helper in ltsp
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| 03:33 | Or we can use zenity etc
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| 03:33 | <vagrantc> but it re-uses the SHUTDOWN_TIME variable an re-implemented it with new meaning.
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| 03:34 | alkisg: so sure, if XS00-halt-reboot were implemented to detect live sessions and pop up a dialog, that's fine.
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| 03:34 | <alkisg> No no I meant as it is, after logout
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| 03:34 | Not about live sessions
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| 03:34 | After logout, before e.g. lightdm starts, we can show the same dialog
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| 03:34 | "the pc is scheduled to reboot, do you want to cancel that?"
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| 03:34 | *to shutdown
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| 03:34 | <vagrantc> i don't have any objection to that, as long as it only happens once.
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| 03:35 | i.e. if they select cancel, it shouldn't pester them till the following day
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| 03:36 | so XS00-halt-reboot could be implemented with a dialog of some kind... no problem with that
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| 03:36 | though the dialog in I01-halt-check wasn't really very informative
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| 03:36 | <alkisg> Or, I01-halt-check could check the file instead of the variable
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| 03:37 | <vagrantc> that could work too, although XS00-halt-reboot runs before I01-halt-check ... so you'd have to move it.
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| 03:38 | i guess i did repurpose XS00-halt-reboot a little, since that was the "user selects reboot, reboot thin client" so the user interaction is already clear.
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| 03:38 | could implement a different name that pops up a dialog in XS00-halt-reboot
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| 03:39 | i.e. it currently only accepts HALT and REBOOT, could implement HALT-WITH-CANCEL-DIALOG or something
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| 03:39 | <vagrantc> anyways, i've just been moving forward on some of this stuff ... far too many crufty bugs that needed some attention
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| 03:40 | <alkisg> It's also a bit inconsistent if we do show a dialog for users that log off at that time, but not to clients that are at ldm at that time
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| 03:40 | An ldm signal would be needed to do it properly
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| 03:40 | So on second thought I'm ok with just dropping I01-halt-check...
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| 03:41 | You're doing an excellent job, sorry for not being more active currently, too much work with schools at autumn...
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| 03:41 | <vagrantc> no worries
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| 03:42 | if a thin client shuts down in the forest, and nobody hears it...
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| 03:43 | <alkisg> :)
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| 03:44 | <vagrantc> only bugs i really have left to look into deeper are https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1115207 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1220432
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| 03:48 | * alkisg prefers more generic solutions... e.g. "command_to_run_at_dm_init" rather than "menu_msg" | |
| 03:48 | <vagrantc> oh, and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1052020
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| 03:49 | alkisg: sure, i think their patch will work, but wanted a more genericly useable feature for that.
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| 03:49 | <alkisg> !alkisg-todo
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| 03:49 | <ltsp`> Error: "alkisg-todo" is not a valid command.
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| 03:49 | <alkisg> !alkisg_todo
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| 03:49 | <ltsp`> Error: "alkisg_todo" is not a valid command.
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| 03:49 | <alkisg> !todo
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| 03:49 | <ltsp`> I do not know about 'todo', but I do know about these similar topics: 'bts-todo', 'bennabiy_todo', 'todo-jammcq-sbalneav', 'vagrantc_todo'
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| 03:49 | <alkisg> ...ok
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| 03:49 | No todo's for me :)
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| 03:50 | "We want to run scripts on these phases: INITRD/INIT/RC/DM/AUTH/LOGIN/SESSION/PERIODIC/LOGOUT/SHUTDOWN"
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| 03:51 | <vagrantc> !vagrantc_todo
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| 03:51 | <ltsp`> vagrantc_todo: solve all the mysteries of the world... or at least try.
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| 03:51 | <alkisg> ...so this menu_msg would just be a command in the DM part
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| 03:51 | <vagrantc> ltsp`: forget vagrantc_todo
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| 03:51 | <alkisg> Yeah too ambitious :D
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| 03:51 | <vagrantc> !forget vagrantc_todo
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| 03:51 | <ltsp`> The operation succeeded.
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| 03:52 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i forget if it was bennabiy or gbaman who gave me that one
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| 03:52 | alkisg: i could see wanting that in any of the screen scripts ... if graphical, it should display graphically, if text-based, it should display on the appropriate console, etc.
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| 03:53 | alkisg: the specific example they gave was the menu script, which is actually a console-based menu.
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| 03:53 | (though it can start other GUI screen scripts)
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| 03:58 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I think we should have a wrapper for x screens (like x-screen-common) and for console screens, those wrappers then could provide generic run directives
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| 03:59 | <vagrantc> oh yeah, i'd also like to take a stab at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1093088
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| 03:59 | alkisg: sounds reasonable.
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| 04:00 | <alkisg> We do have a few bugs still in "NEW" state...
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| 04:01 | * vagrantc welcomes more triaging | |
| 04:01 | <vagrantc> someone asked if it was used, and i said yes, but not very well ... so that prompted me to look at and least clean it up a little
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| 04:04 | * vagrantc is sad that ubuntu doesn't seem to be picking up ltspfs 1.4 | |
| 04:04 | <vagrantc> we made some really nice improvements with that
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| 04:05 | <alkisg> Lack of developers/maintainers is the most pressing matter... lack of bug triaging is the result, not the cause
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| 04:05 | <vagrantc> true that.
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| 04:06 | but having the bugs in reasonably accurate state means i can get to fixes faster
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| 04:06 | i probably spent *at least* 2 hours just looking through bugs before working on fixes.
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| 04:29 | <alkisg> "LC_ALL=$LDM_LANGUAGE LANGUAGE=$LDM_LANGUAGE LANG=$LDM_LANGUAGE"
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| 04:30 | LANGUAGE (e.g. "el") isn't the same as LANG (e.g. "el_GR.UTF-8")...
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| 04:31 | * alkisg wonders if it's possible to derive LANGUAGE from LANG, by discarding everything after _ or . | |
| 04:31 | <vagrantc> whee.
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| 04:32 | * vagrantc speaks C natively | |
| 04:32 | <vagrantc> not so good with C.UTF-8, but better than many.
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| 04:39 | * vagrantc waves | |
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| 05:40 | <skyprox> please, answer my question
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| 05:43 | I am installed ltsp-server on Centos 7 and make ltsp-build-client --release=epel-6-x86_64 but on start machine from PXE desktop is not start, X services booting from Centos 7 and result bag, if I am choose terminal in console all ok, lsb_release -a write centos 6.5
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| 05:43 | why? what am I doing wrong?
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| 05:43 | if I am doing ltsp-build-client --release=epel-7-x86_64 I am have message dracut module 'unionfs' cannot be found or installed.
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| 05:44 | <alkisg> skyprox: centos doesn't support ltsp very well, you might want to try another distribution
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| 05:45 | <skyprox> alkisg, hi! very bad =( I am need ltsp only centos 7
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| 06:01 | <skyprox> alkisg, please see log building client, http://sprunge.us/fXLU
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| 06:01 | see end progress
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| 06:02 | in config /etc/mock/epel-7-x86_64.cfg I am put "config_opts['chroot_setup_cmd'] = 'install @buildsys-build nfs-utils device-mapper cryptsetup-luks rpcbind nfs-utils lvm2 iscsi-initiator-utils nbd mdadm net-tools iproute nbd vi unionfs'"
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| 06:03 | without nfs-utils in string I have error "dracut module 'nfs' cannot be found or installed."
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| 06:38 | <skyprox> you send me message? bug network
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| 07:36 | <muppis> In 10.04 ltspfsd won't mount user home dir. Where I should start looking what's wrong?
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| 10:51 | <maxtrax> hi, my ltsp setup only works with one client. when i power on another computer, it tries to load pxe boot from the first client. which file should i fix?
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| 12:05 | <ben_nabiy> vagrantc: yes, I think I gave you that task, figuring you would get around to it eventually ;)
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| 15:56 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: I liked your presentation. Quick and to the point :)
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| 15:57 | * vagrantc gets a lighning talk in most debconfs | |
| 15:57 | <vagrantc> other talks are too intimidating
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| 16:14 | <bennabiy> What did you talk about this conf?
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| 16:27 | <vagrantc> i think the title was "maintaining packages without understanding" :)
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| 16:30 | <elias_a_> vagrantc: That's a cheerful topic! :D
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| 16:30 | <vagrantc> it was fun :)
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| 17:20 | <bennabiy> You did a good job :)
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| 17:21 | I liked your exhortation at the end to get outside the comfort zone
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| 17:59 | :q
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| 19:09 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: ping
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| 19:11 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: hiya!
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| 19:11 | <sbalneav> Hey, what's yer week looking like?
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| 19:11 | Either this one or next
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| 19:12 | I'd like to get the ltsp-pam stuff put to bed. All we need to solve is the localdevs problem.
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| 19:12 | <vagrantc> traveling kinda sorta, getting some hacking in when i can ... should be back to "normal" first week of october
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| 19:13 | yeah, i'd love to get it sorted also
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| 19:13 | <sbalneav> Can you and I set aside first week of october then?
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| 19:13 | 5-10th?
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| 19:13 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: should be mosly available then, sure!
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| 19:14 | sbalneav: there's also some tricky stuff with fat vs. thin clients
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| 19:14 | <sbalneav> OK, lets make it a date.
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| 19:14 | right, well, lets try to get it all sorted out.
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| 19:14 | <vagrantc> maybe announce it on ltsp-developer to see if we can drag anyone else in to help
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| 19:14 | <sbalneav> OK, will do.
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| 19:15 | <vagrantc> it just *barely* gives us time to get updates into Debian Jessie ... but it is possible.
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| 19:15 | <sbalneav> ok
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| 19:15 | then we ride.
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| 19:48 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: I do think will have to ship LTSP/LDM more-or-less as is in Debian Jessie, and figure out a way to make the libpam-sshauth hooks an optional add-in...
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| 19:49 | which i've done a decent job of so far...
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| 20:31 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: I agree.
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| 20:31 | <jammcq> Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 20:32 | <sbalneav> jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 20:32 | Just like old times
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| 20:32 | <jammcq> yeah
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| 21:21 | <dansza> I need 2 thin clients shipped quickly. When looking at them online, what specifications indicate they will work with LTSP?
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| 21:22 | <vagrantc> main thing you probaly want is something that will PXE boot, and has reasonably good support for video.... nothing LTSP specific, really.
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| 21:25 | <dansza> Thanks for info. Have any suggestions for a low cost thin client?
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| 21:25 | <vagrantc> not really
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| 21:34 | <dansza> Do wireless thin clients boot from some sort of wireless network service in the bios or do you have to have a cabled connection to PXE boot?
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| 21:36 | <vagrantc> wireless isn't really viable for thin clients
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| 21:36 | !wireless
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| 21:36 | <ltsp`> wireless: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WirelessLtsp
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| 21:36 | <vagrantc> hah
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| 21:36 | <vagrantc> that URL doesn't even exist anymore
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| 21:37 | you could essentially have a local copy of the kernel and initrd, and boot via wireless, but that's really prone to network congestion.
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| 21:37 | er, boot a local kernel and initrd, and mount your root filesystem via wireless.
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| 21:40 | <dansza> found the info here: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Concepts#Wireless
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| 21:41 | I'll avoid wireless on your advice though, thanks!
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| 21:42 | <vagrantc> !learn wireless as http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Concepts#Wireless
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| 21:42 | <ltsp`> The operation succeeded.
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| 21:42 | <vagrantc> !forget wireless 1
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| 21:42 | <ltsp`> The operation succeeded.
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| 21:42 | <vagrantc> !wireless
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| 21:42 | <ltsp`> wireless: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Concepts#Wireless
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