IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 28 April 2011 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:45 | <listpi> #ulteo
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| 01:14 | <listpi> m doing usb detection on thin client ....it is getting deteting as /dev/sdb1 but not showing
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| 01:14 | y
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| 01:41 | <blueonyx> ahoi, having trouble with mounting my fc's internal hdd i read the manual and for rdesktops it says there should be the ltspfs pkg installed in the chroot, do i need it without rdesktop too?
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| 01:51 | <blueonyx> hmm, why does gksudo always ask for root passwd not the current users one?
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| 04:21 | <markit> alexqwesa: hi, how are you? how is your sch-script (don't remember the exact name, my notes are at home, now I'm at work) going?
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| 04:42 | <blueonyx> hey, should i be worried about this unknown partition table? http://pastebin.com/03bA8d0j
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| 04:47 | how can i run some client specific script to mount the local disks?
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| 04:48 | <Appiah> there's a option for mounting localdisks
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| 04:48 | you could specifiy the client in lts.conf with the macadress
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| 04:48 | and then the option
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| 04:48 | <blueonyx> doesnt work
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| 04:49 | <Appiah> any error?
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| 04:49 | <blueonyx> LOCALDEV and LOCALDEV_DENY_INTERNAL_DISKS
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| 04:49 | no error
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| 04:49 | maybe the unknown partition table: http://pastebin.com/03bA8d0j
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| 04:49 | <blueonyx> usb/cd gets automounted
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| 04:50 | but not the local disks
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| 04:51 | <listpi> buleonyx: have u tried with this
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| 04:51 | blueonyx : local hard disk detecttion
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| 04:52 | <blueonyx> listpi: what do you mean? i dont think so
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| 04:52 | but the disks get detected and root can mount them, but only root :(
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| 04:54 | <listpi> blueonyx : but in my on client side disk is getting detected as /dev/sda ..i can see by using fdisk -l ...but not getting mouting therefore i can't use it
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| 04:55 | blueonyx : what u have done for detecting local hardisk on client side so that he can save thier data
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| 04:57 | <blueonyx> listpi: i think i'm in the same position as you: fdisk -l shows everything, but only root can mount them
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| 04:59 | <listpi> k ....how you are mounting through root....can u please let me know
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| 05:00 | <blueonyx> activate the root account in the chroot, open some terminal (ctr+alt+f1), login, run something like: mkdir /media/sdX; mount /dev/sdX /media/sdX -o paramtomakeavailabletousers
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| 05:01 | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev
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| 05:10 | <listpi> blueonyx : can i have ur email id so that we can furthere discuss because i am doing the same thing as u
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| 05:11 | <alkisg> markit: you said alexqwesa, did you mean to ask me?
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| 05:12 | <robehend11> seems like more and more people starting up with LTSP these days. Makes me happy
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| 05:15 | <blueonyx> can we specify scripts to run after boot, client specific?
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| 05:16 | <alkisg> blueonyx: sure, with RC_FILExx in lts.conf with specific mac address sections
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| 05:16 | Or you mean after logon/
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| 05:16 | ?
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| 05:16 | <blueonyx> alkisg: doesnt need to be after logon, just as workaround to mount local harddisks
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| 05:16 | <alkisg> Sure, man lts.conf => read RC_FILE*
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| 05:17 | RCFILE_01...RCFILE_10
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| 05:17 | A custom rc file, default unset
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| 05:17 | <robehend11> blueonyx: would pam_mount work for local hard disks? I've never tried it, but I know it worked for my network shares.
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| 05:18 | <blueonyx> thanks alkisg
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| 05:18 | alkisg: is this lts.conf man page not in the ubuntu packages?
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| 05:18 | <alkisg> blueonyx: apt-get install ltsp-docs, if you're on debian/ubuntu
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| 05:18 | <blueonyx> robehend11: do you have a howto on this?
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| 05:18 | <robehend11> blueonyx: lemme see if I still have that one sitting around.
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| 05:19 | <markit> alkisg: lol, sure, was directed to you, sorry
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| 05:19 | <alkisg> markit: sch-scripts work fine for 1 year now in about 400 schools here
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| 05:20 | <markit> btw, with fat clients the teacher can't simply install an app into the server and have it available to all the clients, this is a big problem to me... or there is some magic trick?
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| 05:20 | <robehend11> markit: Update the image after you install the app in the chroot
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| 05:20 | markit: works fine in our classrooms.
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| 05:20 | <markit> alkisg: what about the english translation? I've found a friend of mine that has a couple of friends that could translate from greek to italian, probably
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| 05:21 | <blueonyx> alkisg: how is it run by the lts..? like /etc/init.d/myscript start? or without param
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| 05:21 | <alkisg> No, he can't, fat clients == 2 different installations need to be maintained, 1 for thin clients, and 1 in the chroot for fat clients
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| 05:21 | <markit> robehend11: yes, but you can't install the app in the chroot with kpackagekit , don't you?
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| 05:21 | <robehend11> markit: no clue, never tried. :(
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| 05:21 | <markit> robehend11: lol, thanks anyway :)
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| 05:21 | <alkisg> markit: dgroos has done the english translation, he says that it works ok for him except for some minor glitches
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| 05:22 | <robehend11> alkisg: works here too. No issues.
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| 05:22 | <alkisg> blueonyx: there's an example in the lts.conf manpage :)
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| 05:22 | robehend11: you're using sch-scripts?
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| 05:22 | <markit> alkisg: btw, with google translator I've seen a reference of dnsmasq set as proxy dhcp, where could I find the exact config to do so?
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| 05:22 | <robehend11> alkisg: yep, Dgroos showed me your english translation you had hosted up.
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| 05:22 | <alkisg> Whoo, we have 2 english users :D
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| 05:22 | <markit> robehend11: where are you from? what distro?
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| 05:22 | <robehend11> alkisg: and we're both in the same state, so it works!
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| 05:23 | <alkisg> In 12.04 we'll do a proper translation, starting from english + localizing to greek later on
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| 05:23 | <robehend11> markit: Minnesota USA, and Ubuntu 10.04
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| 05:23 | <alkisg> markit: here's the english version: http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/tosteki/index.php?topic=3220.0
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| 05:23 | And here's the info for proxydhcp: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP
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| 05:23 | <markit> I'm fighting with primary schools teacher's ignorance and will to stay with broken windows at the moment, so DEPRESSING
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| 05:24 | <robehend11> blueonyx: here is a link that has some pam-mount info on it. Not exactly what your looking for, but should be adaptable
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| 05:24 | <markit> they use every irrational argument to turn the migration off
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| 05:24 | <robehend11> blueonyx: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ActiveDirectoryIntegration
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| 05:24 | <markit> alkisg: I'll have a look tonight and try to test this weekend
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| 05:24 | <robehend11> markit: I went through the same thing. What are you running into? I may have the answers, since I've had mine up in my primary for a good year now
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| 05:24 | <blueonyx> robehend11: thanks, will look into
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| 05:25 | <markit> robehend11: they are so ignorant that can't understand the difference among applications and OS
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| 05:25 | don't understand the file format issues
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| 05:25 | for them everything that does not work is "linux"
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| 05:25 | <robehend11> Sad to say, but the way around that is to make sure "as much as possible" that there are no incompatibilities.
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| 05:25 | <markit> so if you produce a .docx and open with LibreOffice and the format is not perfetc, is Linux problem
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| 05:25 | even if they are under Windows :)
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| 05:26 | <robehend11> ah, i see, I see. You've given them a scapegoat, and they're jumping on it
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| 05:26 | <markit> robehend11: they should know what they do, but they don't, are like trained monkeys
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| 05:26 | (un)trained monkeys, I have to say
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| 05:26 | <robehend11> They're not tech people. To many teachers, a computer is a computer is a computer, as long as it works.
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| 05:26 | That wont ever change, no point in bashing your head against that wall.
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| 05:27 | <markit> they misunderstand and misinterpret every word you say
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| 05:27 | to enforce their will to stay with a not working classroom
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| 05:27 | <robehend11> markit: And will sadly continue to do so. Key is to grin, bear it, and think of a creative way around it
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| 05:28 | markit: example: our 2nd grade HATED the LTSP terminals I put in their room last summer. Didn't like the interface, didn't like firefox over Safari, on and on and on.
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| 05:28 | <alkisg> LTSP is a good chance to push linux to classrooms, because it works on old hardware, and many schools lack the money to upgrade their hardware. Silly reason, but works fine for the transition :)
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| 05:29 | <robehend11> markit: way around it? I through Tux Math and Tux Type on the machine, and show'd the students how to access them. The kids loved playing games with math, and their skills improved. At christmas, the teachers asked for more of those "Penguin Game Machines"
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| 05:29 | <markit> not so open minded here, they never saw linux and already decided that is bad
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| 05:30 | they don't even let me install there
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| 05:30 | <robehend11> Of course they did. It doesnt have a giant Apple Sticker on it, and no one at their conferences and staff meetings are telling them how its the next best thing.
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| 05:30 | <markit> even if in a higer grade school I've made it work
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| 05:30 | <robehend11> markit: My first LTSP server was one I had to donate myself, due to no hardware available. Getting in the door is hard.
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| 05:30 | <markit> if you consider that those are person that should educate our children...
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| 05:31 | <robehend11> maybe grab the old machines at next refresh cycle, the ones they were gonna recycle, and slap Ubuntu on them? lower risk, and gets you in the door.
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| 05:31 | <markit> hehehe, I need 3.000 euros to make the classroom work
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| 05:31 | server + ups + gbswitch
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| 05:31 | ok, let's say 2.500
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| 05:31 | <robehend11> no need for GB
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| 05:31 | 10/100 works fine
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| 05:31 | <markit> 6GB ram
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| 05:32 | <markit> maybe I should go for a cheap compatible ... 1000 euros + 300 switch
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| 05:32 | <markit> but is beyond my pockets
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| 05:32 | <markit> for a "donation"
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| 05:32 | <alkisg> | |
| 05:32 | <markit> since they already hate me, lol
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| 05:33 | alkisg: money is not an issue, parents would tax themselves, 15 euros for family
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| 05:33 | 200 families
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| 05:33 | <robehend11> you can change a technolgy fee?!
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| 05:33 | <markit> just I can't install the server first, and then see if they like
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| 05:33 | <robehend11> er, charge*
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| 05:34 | <markit> robehend11: government gives really few money to schools, so parents pay to help with small amounts
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| 05:34 | if needed
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| 05:34 | <robehend11> ah. See, I cant do that here. :(
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| 05:34 | <markit> just it takes a lot of time (2 weeks) to have all the money
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| 05:34 | <alkisg> Go there with a laptop and show them
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| 05:34 | Or even with an external usb disk with ltsp on it
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| 05:34 | I call that "pocket computer lab", I've done that many times
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| 05:34 | <robehend11> well, do you have *any* machines sitting around?
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| 05:35 | you may not be able to say, run a lab worth, but a semi-decent machine could run 3-4 terminals as a station
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| 05:35 | <markit> I've 12 pc in the class to make work
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| 05:35 | <robehend11> specs?
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| 05:35 | <markit> 3gb p4, 512MB ram
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| 05:35 | <alkisg> | |
| 05:35 | <markit> sis video board (sigh!)
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| 05:35 | <robehend11> Is your classroom PC a bit more powerful?
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| 05:36 | <markit> robehend11: those are the classroom pc... current "server" is the same but with 1GB ram
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| 05:36 | <robehend11> Hmm.
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| 05:36 | <robehend11> Do you have a school server setup? Or is that it? Cuz if theres a box out there with some balls, i'd say throw a virtual server in for testing
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| 05:36 | not ideal, but proof of concept capable
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| 05:36 | <markit> alkisg: in the school I've deploied ltsp, 4 core 8GB ram was in troubles with 16 Impress + lots of images
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| 05:36 | for an "artistic work" they were doing
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| 05:37 | <alkisg> markit: that's the network, not the server
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| 05:37 | <markit> in any case, the problem is not technical, is not money, is teacher's BRAIN
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| 05:37 | alkisg: 1GB switch
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| 05:38 | <alkisg> You need more than gigabit for 16 clients + impress. A dual nic server with 3 Gb RAM would go better.
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| 05:38 | <markit> alkisg: mm bounding? Never tried, hope switch supports it
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| 05:38 | <alkisg> It doesn't need support from the switch
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| 05:38 | <markit> I'll do some testing... any problems with dnsmasq then?
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| 05:38 | <alkisg> There are modes that work with any switch
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| 05:39 | But there are many bottlenecks
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| 05:39 | <markit> alkisg: really? I thought you should have 8xxxdon'tremember support, you have 2 mac address with the same ip
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| 05:39 | <alkisg> E.g. did those clients have gigabit NICs, or 100 mbps?
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| 05:39 | <markit> 100mbs
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| 05:39 | <markit> but in any case, we are goint to buy new ones
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| 05:39 | <alkisg> So, normally, you'd hit the flow control problem where all your network is 100 mbps
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| 05:39 | Even if your server + switch is gigabit
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| 05:39 | <markit> i3540, gbit nic, 4Gb ram
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| 05:39 | so good fat clients
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| 05:39 | <alkisg> If you didn't check to work around it, then that was your problem
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| 05:40 | <markit> " flow control problem " ?
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| 05:40 | <markit> I'm happy to learn, could you give me more details of this issue?
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| 05:40 | <alkisg> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl
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| 05:40 | For starters, read the whole UbuntuLTSP wiki pag
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| 05:40 | e
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| 05:40 | You'll find a lot of help there
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| 05:41 | Second, when the performance is low, check to find your bottleneck
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| 05:41 | Something is used 100%
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| 05:41 | Check if it is your server RAM, CPU, network, or client side cpu + network
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| 05:41 | + ram
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| 05:41 | <robehend11> alkisg: THATS what was holding me back before! I had the same problem that is described there..good to know, good to know.
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| 05:42 | <alkisg> robehend11: yup, I was surprised with what you wrote above:
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| 05:42 | (03:31:33 PM) robehend11: no need for GB
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| 05:42 | (03:31:38 PM) robehend11: 10/100 works fine
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| 05:42 | IMHO the network is the most significant part in LTSP
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| 05:42 | <robehend11> oh, agreed.
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| 05:42 | <alkisg> If I could have 5 gbps network, I'd prefer that + 3 Gb RAM, to 8 Gb RAM + 2 more cpu cores
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| 05:42 | <robehend11> See, I just had Gigabit for the server, but it patched down to 10/100 for the clients, and performance wasn't that bad. But that flow control shows where my bottleneck was.
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| 05:42 | <alkisg> E.g. an HD movie needs about 600Mbps for a single lcient
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| 05:43 | A DVD 125, a div 50 etc etc
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| 05:43 | <robehend11> Yep. Luckily, they arent using the ltsp boxes for that, yet. But at least I know in the future.
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| 05:44 | <alkisg> A full screen youtube video is worse thatn a DVD
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| 05:44 | <robehend11> maybe I should look into some Fiber Nics for the servers
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| 05:44 | <markit> alkisg: with your sch-scripts can the teacher show youtube video to 12 clients (100mbs) smootly?
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| 05:44 | <alkisg> Many students here try to do that, and quickly learn about ltsp/local network limitations :-/
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| 05:44 | <robehend11> I cant even get fullscreen youtube working well on a standalone ubuntu box, let alone LTSP
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| 05:44 | <alkisg> markit: no. sch-scripts uses x11vnc, which can't even send video to 1 client smoothly
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| 05:45 | It sends about 4-5 frames per seconds to 10 clients, though
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| 05:45 | With non-fullscreen youtube video
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| 05:45 | With full screen it drops down to 1 fps
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| 05:45 | <robehend11> I've put a hard block on youtube/vimeo/etc here, due to bandwidth. Kids hate it, but I had no choice.
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| 05:45 | <alkisg> If you need proper video streaming, use either squid caching, or vlc multicasting
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| 05:46 | <robehend11> ack, faculty meting
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| 05:46 | ..and failing spelling skills..
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| 05:47 | <alkisg> (x11vnc is about 5 times faster than italc though, because it doesn't use encryption)
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| 05:48 | <markit> alkisg: can't you disable encryption in italc? And I've seen italc2 rcx ONLY for windows, sigh
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| 05:48 | <alkisg> markit: don't know, it crashed too often and the developer never replied to my helping attempts, so I gave up on it
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| 05:49 | <markit> alkisg: I remember you told me, I tried it and crashed too. And I contacted a couple of italian teachers that intruduced ltsp and told me the same (crash + developer not willing to integrate patches), really SAD
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| 05:49 | I mean, I'm happy you created your own solution, but is not the way FOSS should work
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| 05:50 | <alkisg> Agreed. Unfortunately noone seems motivated to develop + maintain such a tool
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| 05:50 | <markit> does it have a design flaw? because you should have forked but you did not, so I wonder how you considered teh code quality
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| 05:51 | <alkisg> It had way too much C++ for my needs
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| 05:51 | In my personal opinion, C++ is good when you design a library etc, but when you're reusing stuff like x11vnc, an interpreted language like python works much better
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| 05:52 | And since we were to rewrite it, GTK seemed a better solution than Qt
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| 05:52 | <markit> I agree, easier to mantein, debug, avoid memory corruption, etc
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| 05:52 | alkisg: urgh, I do love QT, you know...
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| 05:52 | <alkisg> And we don't care about windows compatibility, so we're free to do even distro-specific stuff
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| 05:52 | <markit> is the only point I don't agrree with you, lol
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| 05:53 | <alkisg> E.g. we use vinagre for reverse connections. The tool is there, why should we invent a new one?
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| 05:53 | <markit> (gtk vs qt, I mean)
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| 05:53 | <alkisg> We use gnome, so gtk makes sense
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| 05:53 | No need to load 2 libraries just for the fun of it
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| 05:53 | <markit> alkisg: sure, I expressed myself badly
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| 05:53 | agree not in the meaning you did the wrong choice
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| 05:54 | but in the meaning that I would prefer have QT, but I use kde :)
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| 05:54 | shawnp0wers (~spowers@71-13-74-18.static.aldl.mi.charter.com) joined #ltsp. | |
| 05:54 | <markit> maybe now that Ubuntu includes qt as well, things can change a little
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| 05:54 | <nosedrum> hi there
| |
| 05:54 | i have a strange issue
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| 05:54 | <markit> but is not the problem, I do need a reliable solution
| |
| 05:54 | shawnp0wers (~spowers@linuxjournal/staff/shawnp0wers) left irc: Client Quit | |
| 05:54 | <markit> gtk or qt or whatever
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| 05:55 | <nosedrum> a ltsp client works since 1 year in 1024x768
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| 05:55 | in lts.conf: X_MODE_0=1024x768
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| 05:55 | <markit> alkisg: hate to be repetetive, but you are giving me a really big help, invaluable, thanks again
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| 05:55 | <nosedrum> and this morning the client boot in 800x600
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| 05:55 | no config change... any idea ?
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| 05:58 | <markit> nosedrum: has ever been the autodetected resolution, or there is an entry in lts.conf with mac address and resolution?
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| 05:58 | and you changed the client lan board?
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| 05:58 | <nosedrum> no lan card change
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| 05:58 | alkisg1 (~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) joined #ltsp. | |
| 05:59 | <nosedrum> same mac address
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| 05:59 | this client is definied like this in lts.conf:
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| 05:59 | [p4_a06]
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| 05:59 | LDM_USER_ALLOW=p4,admindsi
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| 05:59 | X_MODE_0=1024x768
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| 05:59 | alkisg (~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) got netsplit. | |
| 05:59 | Ahmuck-Sr (~quietly@p178n22.ruraltel.net) got netsplit. | |
| 05:59 | jbrett (brett@nat/hp/x-xglykcdlwcjklpcw) got netsplit. | |
| 05:59 | Nick change: jbrett- -> jbrett | |
| 05:59 | Possible future nick collision: jbrett | |
| 05:59 | Nick change: alkisg1 -> alkisg | |
| 05:59 | Possible future nick collision: alkisg | |
| 05:59 | <alkisg> Hmm it looks like I was typing alone :D
| |
| 06:00 | (03:53:41 PM) alkisg: I also prefer Qt as an API
| |
| 06:00 | (03:55:39 PM) alkisg: Developing for a specific desktop environment + distro + etc etc, makes the development + maintenance many many times faster. We don't have the manpower to support everything, so we keep it as focused as we can.
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| 06:00 | (03:55:56 PM) alkisg: So now we have many more features than italc will ever have
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| 06:02 | <markit> alkisg: so there are other people helping you in the development? really good new!
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| 06:03 | once translated in english, I do hope the entire world will benefit and help
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| 06:03 | <alkisg> Yes, we're a team of 5 people now, some help more, some less
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| 06:03 | <markit> hope you complete your phd soon :)
| |
| 06:03 | <alkisg> But even alone, I'd maintain it for my classroom
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| 06:03 | <markit> great indeed
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| 06:03 | I do love you man! :)
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| 06:03 | <alkisg> And if someone was willing to help proofreading the english UI + docs, I'd internationalize it too
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| 06:04 | markit: ok, you're hired as the italian translator after 2 years :D
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| 06:04 | <markit> lol, but you told me that except of the fact of merey translate it
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| 06:04 | <alkisg> https://launchpad.net/~sch-devs
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| 06:04 | <markit> is the "internationalization framework" that is not yet integrated, correct?
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| 06:05 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 06:05 | <markit> so first step would be translate COMMENTS in english (PLEASE!)
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| 06:05 | <alkisg> No, the first step would be to separate the classroom management app from the ltsp management app
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| 06:05 | But sure, that too :)
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| 06:05 | <markit> oh, is it mixed? because I need to use separated
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| 06:06 | <alkisg> Yes, the teacher here also doubles as a sysadmin
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| 06:06 | So we have an all-in-one app
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| 06:06 | <markit> I've my own "infrastructure" and management, more or less
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| 06:06 | <alkisg> "create me a fat chroot" "and 600 student accounts" "and lock those clients"
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| 06:06 | <markit> that sounds good, but probably in a different way I've done
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| 06:07 | <alkisg> See? You've written your own solution too :)
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| 06:07 | It's how floss works :D
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| 06:08 | <markit> mine is a desperate self made "solution", lol
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| 06:09 | some bunch of ruby scripts
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| 06:09 | <nosedrum> markit: the user is so lazy... his screen connector was partially connected and client detected a 800x600 screen in hsync tests....
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| 06:09 | <markit> and a csv import feature to create students
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| 06:09 | <nosedrum> markit: sorry for this useless intervention...
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| 06:09 | <alkisg> markit: that was last year's sch-scripts for us too
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| 06:09 | <markit> nosedrum: yuo are welcome, good to know I take note
| |
| 06:10 | Ahmuck-Sr (~quietly@p178n22.ruraltel.net) got lost in the net-split. | |
| 06:10 | <alkisg> Then we moved on to rewrite it as a pygtk app with glade dialogs for everything
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| 06:10 | Preview for the users that will be created, graphical .csv import etc etc
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| 06:10 | <markit> alkisg: exactly what I wold need now, and was going to write in rails with web interface
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| 06:10 | <alkisg> Right click > see client properties, or open a root terminal from that client and see it at the teacher screen with screen/socat etc
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| 06:11 | * alkisg likes gtk controls better than web controls | |
| 06:11 | <alkisg> Lists, combo boxes, menus etc
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| 06:11 | <markit> sure, even if jQuery has nice widgets also
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| 06:12 | can't master too many development technologies
| |
| 06:12 | <alkisg> Indeed. But I don't think it has an applet to remote control someone
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| 06:12 | <markit> lol, not but maybe with html5....
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| 06:12 | you have a canvans to write into, who knows...
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| 06:12 | in any case, I do have to test your solution
| |
| 06:12 | reinventing the wheel is not my goal
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| 06:13 | and even if I don't know python, is a language I do have to learn sooner or later
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| 06:13 | <alkisg> Neither mine, that's why we use existing tools like x11vnc, screen, socat etc
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| 06:13 | <markit> (very used in scripting into programs)
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| 06:13 | alkisg: wise decisions, indeed
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| 06:13 | FOSS power should come from this
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| 06:13 | <blueonyx> isnt a nfs for home used by default, or how can users access their same data on different thin clients? (is it different on fat clients?)
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| 06:13 | <markit> and GPL license :)
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| 06:14 | <alkisg> blueonyx: thin client users ARE on the server, so there's no need for nfs
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| 06:14 | <markit> back to work now, thanks alkisg, see you this weekend
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| 06:14 | <alkisg> fat clients use sshfs by default
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| 06:14 | bb markit
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| 06:14 | blueonyx: and thin clients with localapps also use sshfs by default, but they can also use nfs home if instructed
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| 06:15 | <blueonyx> sshfs would be okay for me too (and my fat clients) but eg mkdir blub and reboot and blub is gone
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| 06:16 | <alkisg> blueonyx: wait you have me confused
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| 06:16 | You're using fat clients?
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| 06:16 | <blueonyx> yep
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| 06:16 | <alkisg> I thought you were looking to mount internal hard disks for thin clients
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| 06:16 | Or that was another person?
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| 06:16 | <blueonyx> no sorry
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| 06:16 | but i want to access the legacy data on the internal hdds _and_ have a shared home
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| 06:17 | on fat clients
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| 06:17 | <alkisg> OK. 1 step back.
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| 06:17 | The things about DENY_INTERNAL_DISKS etc? they don't work on fat clients
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| 06:17 | <blueonyx> ah nice to know :)
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| 06:17 | <alkisg> Fat client sessions are local, they can access the hard disk directly
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| 06:17 | Which distro/version are you using?
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| 06:18 | <blueonyx> edubuntu 10.04
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| 06:18 | <alkisg> OK. Any use in the admin group can mount local disks with no password
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| 06:18 | *user
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| 06:18 | <blueonyx> my only problem was, that only root can mount the local disks
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| 06:18 | ahhh
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| 06:18 | <alkisg> No, not just root. Any user in the admin group.
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| 06:18 | <blueonyx> what else can they do?
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| 06:19 | <blueonyx> but even better would be to have them mounted on boot
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| 06:20 | <blueonyx> my users connect to the already booted fat clients through ssh
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| 06:20 | i use ltsp on workstations to minimize administration
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| 06:24 | <alkisg> (04:20:00 PM) blueonyx: my users connect to the already booted fat clients through ssh ==> what do you mean?
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| 06:24 | You can have them mounted at boot with udisks
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| 06:24 | You can give normal users access to mount internal disks with policykit
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| 06:24 | Most stuff on fat clients can be customized as usual in ubuntu, with the regular tools
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| 06:25 | <blueonyx> i have boxes only with power and network cable in a dark room, they got plenty of ram and cpu cores, i boot them once in there life and users come and go through ssh and start their calculations on them
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| 06:25 | <alkisg> Ah so you don't care about the GUI
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| 06:25 | <blueonyx> s/there/their
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| 06:25 | yea
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| 06:25 | <alkisg> And you put the user accounts in the chroot?
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| 06:26 | <blueonyx> i guess i have to yea
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| 06:26 | <alkisg> There are also some security concerns with sshd in the chroot
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| 06:26 | <blueonyx> i'm glad about any links you can provide me :)
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| 06:27 | <alkisg> One is the docs on the /topic, and one is here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/
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| 06:27 | Those are about all the links I know of
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| 06:27 | But since you're not using LDM, all the "automount home with sshfs" magic is gone
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| 06:28 | If you do switch to NFS_HOME, then that'll work, as it's mounted on boot, not on login
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| 06:28 | <blueonyx> okay
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| 06:28 | and regarding the local disks, what do you mean by udisks and policykit?
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| 06:29 | <alkisg> Those aren't specific to ltsp
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| 06:29 | <blueonyx> yea, i'm googling, but maybe you want to share some more insights? d>
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| 06:29 | :>
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| 06:30 | <alkisg> A "simple solution", if all your disks are the same, is to put an entry in the chroot /etc/fstab, and put CONFIGURE_FSTAB=false in lts.conf
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| 06:30 | <blueonyx> yea, thats not the case :(
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| 06:31 | <alkisg> For a more generic solution, i.e. "automount all the available internal disks on boot", I'd write an udev rule that would call udisks --mount <the path to the volume>
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| 06:31 | <blueonyx> but i dont know about the ubuntu automounter, i simply need to tell him in the chroot to mount sdb* and sdba*
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| 06:31 | ah nice
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| 06:31 | <alkisg> An udev rule can easily differentiate between ex2, ext3, vfat, that you do want to mount, vs swap etc, that you don't
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| 06:31 | <blueonyx> thanks for your time!
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| 06:32 | <alkisg> There's also some logic in ltspfsd similar to that, but instead of "just mounting it", it fires ltspfsd to export the file system to the server
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| 06:32 | Maybe you could hook there instead. Both solutions should be < 10 lines though, so no big deal...
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| 06:34 | <blueonyx> ah i think the udisks command is what i was looking for :))
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| 06:40 | <alkisg> blueonyx: e.g. here's a simplified script to automount internal disks:
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| 06:40 | for f in /dev/sd[a-z][0-9]; do udisks --mount "$f"; done
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| 06:42 | <blueonyx> thanks :)
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| 06:42 | now, next challeng: lvm volumes :>
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| 06:42 | <robehend11> alkisg: you need someone to proofread english docs for Scripts? Becuase I have this whole class of english kids, and we're just coming to our technical writing piece next week. A large part of it is proofreading..
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| 06:43 | <alkisg> robehend11: will need someone, but in 2 years :)
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| 06:43 | For sch-scripts/ubuntu 12.04
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| 06:43 | OK, 1 year now
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| 06:43 | <robehend11> alkisg: haha ok. Well, the class is yearly anyways, so let me know. I always like to get the kids real-world stuff, they tend to work harder when I tell them it'll be used World-wide haha
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| 06:43 | <alkisg> Cool, thank you
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| 06:45 | <robehend11> Anyone used SSD's in LTSP servers before? And if so, was the speed increase worth it?
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| 07:23 | <blueonyx> hm, i think i just added a RCFILE_01 and installed lvm2 package and now my user cant login, it just waits and then there is "no answer from server, restart"
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| 07:24 | <robehend11> it wont even get to the splash?
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| 07:25 | <blueonyx> im at the gdm login
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| 07:26 | <robehend11> hmm. you didnt change IP or anything? so SSH should still be fine?
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| 07:26 | <blueonyx> yea i can ssh
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| 07:27 | <robehend11> hmm. no clue there, usually no answer is either ssh or bad user/pw. At least, thats what I've ran into. Anything in the auth log?
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| 07:28 | <blueonyx> nope
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| 07:28 | <robehend11> could it perhaps be gremlins?
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| 07:29 | <blueonyx> but nothing in the auth.log means the login request didnt reach the server?
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| 07:29 | <robehend11> sounds like it, since it should log if something hits it
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| 07:30 | run ltsp-update-sshkeys for funsies?
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| 07:32 | <blueonyx> but the gdm log in should hit the server not the fat client?
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| 07:32 | <robehend11> yep
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| 07:32 | <blueonyx> no change with updated sshkeys
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| 07:32 | <robehend11> hmm. no clue, sorry bud
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| 07:33 | <blueonyx> thanks anyhow :(
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| 08:14 | <blueonyx> how does /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.conf correlate to ltsp-update-kernels? as in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/589034/comments/13 and 4) which did not work :>
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| 08:44 | <blueonyx> is there something wrong with this lts.conf line:
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| 08:44 | RCFILE_01=/etc/init.d/automount? it doesnt seem to get executed
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| 08:46 | <Gadi> blueonyx: does getltscfg parse it properly?
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| 08:48 | <blueonyx> Gadi: yep
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| 08:49 | <Gadi> can you get a shell on the client and run it by hand?
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| 08:49 | <Fredje> Hi,
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| 08:49 | <blueonyx> Gadi: yep
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| 08:50 | <Fredje> Can anybody tell me something about multimedia usage?
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| 08:50 | <Gadi> blueonyx: can you make a wrapper script that calls: /etc/init.d/automount 2>/tmp/error.log
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| 08:50 | and call that?
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| 08:51 | <blueonyx> Gadi: yea i'll try kthx
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| 08:52 | <Fredje> Gadi: Do you have some experience with Multimedia on a ltsp server?
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| 08:52 | <Gadi> Fredje: that's a bit vague
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| 08:52 | can u be more specific?
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| 08:53 | <Fredje> Gadi: Can you watch high reso youtube video's etc via ltsp?
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| 08:53 | Gadi: Or is there a lot of delay between audio and vidio or any other problem?
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| 08:53 | <Gadi> if that's what you are after, you can run firefox (or other browser) as a "local app" and it will work beautifully
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| 08:54 | if you run it off the server, you will most likely have difficulty as you scale
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| 08:54 | but as a local app, you have no scaling issues at all
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| 08:55 | <Fredje> Gadi: On my school we have a computewr problem:P I sugested they might implement Ubuntu with lstp. The computers we use on the moment are pentium 4's with 512MB ram.
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| 08:55 | <Gadi> sounds like a great solution
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| 08:56 | flash and java are the primary reason for running firefox locally
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| 08:56 | <Fredje> Gadi: I thougt so but there is one problem we have windows running on the moment. And the ICT department does not have a lot of linuxs knowledge
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| 08:56 | <Gadi> so, set up LTSP, then follow the ubuntu ltsp wiki to set up local apps
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| 08:56 | <Fredje> ok
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| 08:57 | Are there some handy sites with more info so I can convince the ict department of my schooll?
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| 08:58 | <Gadi> well, for ltsp help, ubuntu's ltsp wiki is great
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| 08:58 | for genral Linux help, well, I suppose ubuntu's site in general
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| 08:58 | <Fredje> Ok, thanks a lot!
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| 08:59 | <Gadi> you probably won't convince them until you set up a demo
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| 08:59 | and show them what it is like
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| 08:59 | <Fredje> What specs should a server have for a test?
| |
| 08:59 | <Gadi> how many clients?
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| 08:59 | <Fredje> I was thinking about 4 clients or so
| |
| 09:00 | <Gadi> for a demo, you could get a modern laptop and set up ltsp on that if youwanted
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| 09:00 | :)
| |
| 09:00 | <Fredje> When I convince them and we implement ltsp for al the computers there are around 300 pc's what specs should a server or servers have?
| |
| 09:01 | <Gadi> it largely depends on the applications they run on the server.
| |
| 09:01 | (or servers)
| |
| 09:01 | you can always add more servers as needed
| |
| 09:02 | and direct the clients appropriately
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| 09:02 | check out the wiki
| |
| 09:02 | it has different people's experiences with server sizing
| |
| 09:02 | <Fredje> I ve seen, but I see a lot of diffrent advices
| |
| 09:02 | <Gadi> yeah
| |
| 09:02 | because it is different for everyone
| |
| 09:03 | usually, firefox/java/flash are the biggest resource hogs
| |
| 09:03 | if you run them locally, tho,
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| 09:03 | you don't have to factor them in on the server budget
| |
| 09:03 | <Fredje> ok
| |
| 09:03 | <Gadi> so, then the major hog is the desktop or any other stuff that is running
| |
| 09:04 | thats why it is a bit of black magic
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| 09:04 | for most stuff, it is a question of RAM
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| 09:04 | <Gadi> so, make sure you have a server that you can throw more ram in
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| 09:05 | <blueonyx> Gadi: there is no error outputted
| |
| 09:05 | but the /tmp/automount.err gets created :/
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| 09:05 | <Fredje> I thought about edubuntu as distro and wine for some apps and almost every student only uses firefox and openoffice
| |
| 09:06 | Gadi: I will defenetly create a test environment and look at how it is running and keep you posted
| |
| 09:06 | <Gadi> blueonyx: perhaps it starts too early
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| 09:07 | <Fredje> Gadi: Thanks for the info!
| |
| 09:07 | <Gadi> Fredje: good luck! we're here as needed!
| |
| 09:07 | :)
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| 09:07 | <Fredje> Gadi: I noticed, bye
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| 09:07 | <Gadi> blueonyx: RCFILES get ran early on in the boot process
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| 09:08 | you may need portmapper or something else running for automount to work?
| |
| 09:08 | <blueonyx> now the script is just: for f in /dev/sd[a-z][0-9]; do udisks --mount "$f"; done
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| 09:08 | udisks i guess
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| 09:08 | or its daemon
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| 09:09 | Gadi: any other suggestion how to automount local disks on a fat client?
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| 09:09 | <Gadi> I believe udisks talks to a system bus
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| 09:09 | so, perhaps the system bus is not running yet
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| 09:09 | I would not make it an RCFILES script
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| 09:10 | but maybe a screen-session script
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| 09:10 | or perhaps an xinitrc.d script
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| 09:11 | <blueonyx> thanks, i'll look into them
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| 09:11 | <Gadi> my guess is that it talks to dbus
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| 09:11 | (thats a guess)
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| 09:11 | so, dbus should at least be running
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| 09:11 | which should be the case certainly at xinitrc.d time
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| 09:17 | <blueonyx> couldn't be ltsp-update-image be incremental :( i just make a <1KB change and have to regenerate >1GB image
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| 09:23 | thanks Gadi! it works now as xinitrc.d script :))
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| 11:47 | * alkisg doesn't really like the way ltsp-build-client modifies the chroot... Example: rm -f $ROOT/etc/init/plymouth-stop.conf. So if the plymouth package is upgraded, that file will be put there again. Couldn't we move those modifications to some other step? Maybe in the initramfs or in ltsp-update-image? | |
| 11:47 | <vagrantc> silly ubuntu
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| 11:47 | but debian does it's fair share of bad things in ltsp-build-client too
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| 11:47 | <alkisg> Hehe. /me looks at the debian folder for another example...
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| 11:48 | In the ideal case, I'd like it if the chroot was directly bootable in a standalone computer
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| 11:48 | vbox, nfs/rw netbooted, or even local disk
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| 11:52 | echo > $ROOT/etc/hostname
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| 11:52 | E.g. that could be done in an initramfs script
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| 11:52 | Or mtab, etc
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| 11:54 | mv "$ROOT/etc/pulse/system.pa" "$ROOT/etc/pulse/system.pa.ltsp" || true
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| 11:54 | That would also get there on pulse updates, no?
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| 12:03 | <vagrantc> files in /etc/ shouldn't get recreated
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| 12:07 | <alkisg> Ah that's a conffile?
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| 12:09 | (also I thought that conffile preservation didn't include missing files - good to know)
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| 12:38 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i'm not *positive*
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| 12:42 | ||
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| 12:48 | <robehend11> remind me to never step foot into #ubuntu on a launch day again...*shudder*
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| 12:53 | <Phrix> Hello all, I am try to configure LTSP with OpenSuse 11.4 but I received this message when inicialization terminal: Doing the pivot_root
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| 12:53 | exec: /sbin/init: Permission
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| 12:53 | Kernel Panit: Attempted to kill init!"
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| 12:53 | Someone have any idea what I can do for fix this ?
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| 12:55 | <vagrantc> try #kiwi-ltsp
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| 12:55 | opensuse is kind of it's own ltsp-like thing
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| 12:58 | <Phrix> sorry vagrant I dont understand, because all are ready only need fix this
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| 12:58 | sorry my bad english I am Braziliam
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| 12:59 | <vagrantc> opensuse does ltsp very differently than other distros, so it's hard to help
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| 12:59 | you could try the irc channel #kiwi-ltsp instead
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| 13:00 | that's for ltsp on opensuse
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| 13:00 | <Phrix> ok, i understand now !
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| 13:00 | thanks
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| 19:39 | <ball> hello dgroos
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| 19:39 | <dgroos> Howdy ball
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| 19:40 | <ball> brb, coffee
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| 19:40 | <dgroos> Good evening and a happy new Edubuntu to you!
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| 19:44 | <ball> I just installed preschool games for fork... not sure whether they're considered part of Edubuntu
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| 19:45 | <dgroos> Not sure--'...games for fork'? What are they?
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| 19:48 | OK just stopping to say cool new edubuntu. Coffee for you, bed for me :)
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| 19:48 | 'night!
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| 21:32 | * ball staggers around a bit. | |
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| 21:46 | ball (~ball@c-98-226-194-183.hsd1.il.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: GOODNIGHT | |
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| 00:00 | --- Fri Apr 29 2011 | |