IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 30 May 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:31 | <bieb> how can I change the unity launcher programs and push it out to the clients?
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| 04:42 | <mealstrom> good morning
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| 05:50 | <alkisg_web> ...testing apturl from webchat: apt:wine
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| 05:50 | Other link: http://test
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| 05:50 | OK, from appnr then: http://appnr.com/install/epoptes
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| 05:51 | Cool, it works! :)
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| 05:51 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg_web, it doesn't work! ;(
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| 05:51 | <alkisg_web> Hyperbyte: why, if you click on the last one, it should open software-center to install epoptes...
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| 05:51 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg_web, no. :(
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| 05:52 | <alkisg_web> What client are you using?
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| 05:52 | (and default browser?)
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| 05:53 | <Hyperbyte> http://razor.middelkoop.cc/~dj/appnr.png
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| 05:53 | Doesn't work. :(
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| 05:53 | * Hyperbyte sobs and heads out to work where he has Ubuntu! :-D | |
| 05:53 | <alkisg_web> Hahaha I'll file a bug on Internet Explorer for it to support apt repositories :P :D
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| 05:54 | ...hmmm maybe it would be better to tell appnr.com to redirect IE users to http://goodbye-microsoft.com/ :D
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| 06:26 | <mealstrom> looks like ltsp_localapps_menu and .. _menu_items dont work. I have to run programs manually via ltsp-localapps and not via system menu. is this bug or havent implemented yet?
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| 06:39 | <alkisg> You're not doing it correctly
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| 06:43 | <mealstrom> lts.conf: http://pastebin.com/wB7tK0QR , applications are installed in chroot and image is updated
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| 06:45 | or i should add variable local_apps_whitelist with space-separated list of commands ?
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| 07:02 | <Hyperbyte> mealstrom, hey, you're using sflphone with LTSP!
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| 07:02 | Me too!
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| 07:06 | <mealstrom> Hyperbyte: :D yeap. im using it on fat 10.04 and thin 12.04 clients :D
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| 07:06 | <Hyperbyte> mealstrom, awesome.
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| 07:06 | On 12.04, make sure you use the latest version
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| 07:07 | 1.0.2 doesn't work properly on 12.04
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| 07:07 | <mealstrom> Hyperbyte: but i have a problem to lunch as local apps. all audio programs just kills my system
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| 07:07 | <Hyperbyte> mealstrom, I can definitely help you.
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| 07:07 | I have sflphone working on 12.04 as both local app and server app.
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| 07:07 | But, strange as it sounds, on 12.04 sflphone works better as server app for me. Could be my hardware, don't know.
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| 07:08 | <mealstrom> Hyperbyte: im using 1.1.0 version
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| 07:08 | <Hyperbyte> But the interface is very sluggish on 12.04 as a local app... as a server app it responds quickly. I've also had trouble with audio stuttering as a local app, and not as a server app.
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| 07:08 | I can't even begin to understand -why- a softphone would work better via remote X and networked pulse audio, than just locally on the client, but that's how it is for me.
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| 07:09 | So you might want to experiment.
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| 07:09 | Now onto the local apps menu - have you verified that sflphone-client-gnome works on the client as localapp?
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| 07:10 | <mealstrom> Hyperbyte: if i run it as ltsp-localapps sflphone-client-gnome from console it starts as localapp and everyone is happy - no server's CPU usage, no lags. If i run it from Applications-Internet-sflphone -- it starts on server -- and this is horrible for CPU.
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| 07:11 | <Hyperbyte> Interesting. :)
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| 07:11 | Horrible for CPU on the server, or on the client?
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| 07:11 | <mealstrom> Hyperbyte: every program that starts on server and translates sound -- eats a lot of server (not client) cpu.
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| 07:12 | Hyperbyte: totem / vlc / skype / sflphone / pidgin
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| 07:12 | <Hyperbyte> mealstrom, hmm.. haven't really noticed that.
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| 07:12 | This is on 12.04?
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| 07:13 | <mealstrom> Hyperbyte: yes. server and clients are 12.04, but im using VBox for testing thin clients (3 cores / 4 Gb RAM), maybe this is the issue with sound, but otherway -- i want some programs to lunch locally.
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| 07:14 | Hyperbyte: and my localapps_menu doesnt work or i just have something wrong configured.
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| 07:17 | <Hyperbyte> mealstrom, to be honest, I've never bothered with localapps menu
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| 07:17 | Always just created launchers in /usr/share/applications/ on the server
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| 07:19 | mealstrom, seems like sound applications on the server are using quite a bit of CPU here as well
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| 07:20 | I'm running on a 6-core 3.3ghz AMD Phenom processor though, with ~10 users, so I haven't really noticed it.
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| 07:23 | <mealstrom> Hyperbyte: they are coding/decoding stream and sends raw data to client. client just plays, no cpu load. Im going to take yours advise with creating launchers.
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| 07:26 | Hyperbyte: im running 4-core/8GB amd phenom with ~6 users(fat) and virtualbox on it(3-core 90%cap 4GB) for ~3-4 thin clients test system . And VirtualBox eats a lot of CPU when working with audio
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| 07:29 | Hyperbyte: have you edited at /usr/share/applications Exec=COMMAND to Exec=ltsp-localapps COMMAND ?
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| 07:33 | Hyperbyte: ok, ive managed with that, just created local and server ones entries
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| 07:39 | <Hyperbyte> mealstrom, easy isn't it? :-)
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| 07:39 | Only disadvantage is that you can't set it on a per-client basis, like you do with LOCAL_APPS_MENU in lts.conf
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| 07:39 | <mealstrom> Hyperbyte: yes, peace of cake :D
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| 07:40 | <Hyperbyte> But I don't need that, so I've never bothered with the lts.conf variables for it.
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| 07:40 | <mealstrom> Hyperbyte: my LOCAL_APPS_MENU doesnt work, so ive no choice .
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| 07:40 | <Hyperbyte> mealstrom, oh, if you need it working I'm sure alkisg can tell you how.
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| 07:41 | Or some other LTSP developer... I've just never used it, so can't tell you what you're doing wrong. ;-)
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| 07:41 | * alkisg is writing some wiki pages for greek schools now, will be available later on... | |
| 07:41 | <mealstrom> Hyperbyte: ive tryed to look up at scripts for variable LOCAL_MENU - but no luck.
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| 07:41 | <mealstrom> alkisg: good luck .
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| 07:42 | <Hyperbyte> mealstrom, it's called LOCAL_APPS_MENU isn't it?
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| 07:43 | Look at <chroot> /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/X02-genmenu
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| 07:44 | That's where the local apps menu is generated
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| 07:44 | Doesn't tell me much though.
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| 07:44 | I can tell you this:
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| 07:45 | The program 'sflphone' doesn't exist on your client. The executable is 'sflphone-client-gnome'
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| 07:45 | See if you can get it working with just one entry..
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| 07:46 | About your lts.conf
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| 07:46 | I don't think you need "LIKE = default"
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| 07:46 | [Default] gets applied to all clients anyways
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| 07:47 | And put LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS=sflphone-client-gnome
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| 07:47 | (just one item, to test)
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| 07:52 | <mealstrom> hm... if boolean_is_true "${LOCAL_APPS:-True}" does this line is correct for function?
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| 07:53 | alkisg: can you look here for a moment ?
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| 07:53 | <alkisg> Yes it's fine
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| 08:04 | <Hyperbyte> mealstrom, I'm pretty sure the LTSP code is working
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| 08:06 | <mealstrom> Hyperbyte: it create tmp dir
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| 08:06 | Hyperbyte: all files seems to be ok
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| 08:08 | <Hyperbyte> mealstrom, there could be something in the home dir of the user you're logging in with that overrides the menu maybe?
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| 08:08 | Either way - do you -need- to be able to create different menus for different clients?
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| 08:09 | <mealstrom> Hyperbyte: you know what? it works now with LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS=sflphone-client-gnome,sflphone,skype
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| 08:09 | <Hyperbyte> mealstrom, this is exactly what you had before, wasn't it?
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| 08:09 | *isn't it
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| 08:11 | <mealstrom> Hyperbyte: i've forgot to restart thin clients. and yesterday i,ve got it with full path "Full-paths are required for each command. No spaces in the names are allowed." (man) and they doesnt work.
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| 08:11 | Hyperbyte: like LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS=/usr/bin/sflphone,/usr/bin/skype
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| 08:20 | heh.. i found a bug
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| 08:21 | <Hyperbyte> !upstream-bug
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| 08:21 | <ltsp`> Hyperbyte: upstream-bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+filebug
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| 08:21 | <Hyperbyte> Then be sure to report it. :)
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| 08:23 | <mealstrom> heh, its already documented :D
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| 08:24 | * alkisg takes a break from the wiki... so, is there some actual ltsp bug involved? | |
| 08:26 | <mealstrom> alkisg: it was documented and fixed.
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| 08:26 | <alkisg> Ah, you're using an older version? ok
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| 08:27 | <mealstrom> alkisg: yeap, it was on 10.04, 12.04 doesnt have it.
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| 11:45 | <jimjimovich> are these instructions working with Ubuntu 12.04?
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| 11:45 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 11:46 | <alkisg> ...some of them, the page has been edited too many times and you need to be careful when following it
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| 11:47 | <jimjimovich> I can't seem to get fat clients to boot
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| 11:52 | <jimjimovich> is it possible to get Unity 3D working on thin clients if the clients support(ed) compiz in 10.04?
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| 11:52 | <alkisg> Not really
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| 11:53 | ...so you want fat clients to get 3d in unity?!!!
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| 11:53 | <jimjimovich> no. two different questions :)
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| 11:54 | Unity 2D is working really horribly on the thin clients I'm testing. You can't even maximize a window correctly.
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| 11:54 | <alkisg> Yeah and 3d is even worse... I'm using gnome-fallback
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| 11:54 | <jimjimovich> the changes in desktop environments really present us some problems for upgrading.
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| 11:55 | does compiz work in "classic mode"?
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| 11:55 | <alkisg> Gnome fallback is kinda like 10.04
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| 11:55 | There's a gnome-classic which I think uses effects etc
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| 11:56 | <jimjimovich> I was thinking if we had fat clients, it'd help with the desktop and with some other apps. but I'm not sure if it's worth it.
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| 11:56 | <alkisg> Worth what?
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| 11:57 | It's not like it involves more maintainance..
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| 11:58 | <jimjimovich> I'm not sure how great the performance will be on lower-end machines that were meant to be thin clients
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| 11:58 | like atom processors with 1GB RAM
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| 11:58 | <alkisg> Like running ubuntu locally
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| 11:58 | <jimjimovich> exactly
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| 11:58 | <alkisg> I.e. you can almost watch flash youtube, and that's about it
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| 11:58 | *fullscreen
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| 11:59 | <jimjimovich> I think that'd be a pretty big step backwards for most of our users/clients
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| 12:00 | it's kind of a bummer to not be able to offer them Unity
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| 12:00 | <dgeary2> jimjimovich, big picture question is does it make sense for your environment?
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| 12:00 | <jimjimovich> Unity?
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| 12:01 | <alkisg> My daughter's atom laptop easily does unity 3d as a fat client
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| 12:01 | <dgeary2> jimjimovich, no, fat client
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| 12:01 | sorry for the ambiguity
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| 12:02 | <jimjimovich> I think the biggest problem for fat clients would be RAM. I know how horrible my notebook runs 12.04 with 2GB.
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| 12:02 | bumped it up to 4GB and it runs like a dream
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| 12:02 | <alkisg> ...really?!
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| 12:03 | I don't think RAM (when you have 1 gb) is a problem on ubuntu desktop machines...
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| 12:03 | Anyways, back to work..
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| 12:03 | <jimjimovich> chrome and firefox are both serious ram hogs.
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| 12:04 | <dgeary2> i agree with alkisg, that 1G RAM should be sufficient
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| 12:04 | <jimjimovich> maybe it'd be worth it to upgrade the ram and go fat client
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| 12:04 | how does swap work with fat clients?
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| 12:05 | <dgeary2> jimjimovich, tell firefox and chrome not to cache
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| 12:05 | <alkisg> Same as thin
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| 12:05 | <dgeary2> alkisg, does that mean either 1) not, or 2) nbd ?
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| 12:05 | <alkisg> 1) not, 2) nbd, 3) local swap...
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| 12:06 | Whichever
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| 12:06 | <dgeary2> sorry, i assumed local swap was out of the question for a variety of reasons
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| 12:07 | <alkisg> Some people reuse old desktops for ltsp clients, there's nothing wrong there about using local swap
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| 12:07 | <dgeary2> unless the local system is hibernated
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| 12:07 | <alkisg> ....why would that matter?
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| 12:08 | Ah you mean local linux system, yeah that's not too common
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| 12:08 | (having linux both locally and over ltsp)
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| 12:08 | <jimjimovich> anyone using desktop environments besides gnome or unity?
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| 12:12 | <dgeary2> alkisg, yeah local swap would be no problem if the local system was not linux, or not hibernated
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| 12:12 | but would involve repartitioning the hard disks of some or all of the clients
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| 12:12 | <alkisg> Sure, I've done it lots of times
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| 12:14 | <bieb> alkisg: I am looking for a way to configure the unity launch bar, add and removing programs students dont need to see. I know Sabaton could do this in the past, I had heard Sabayon doesn't work with 12.04..
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| 12:15 | <alkisg> bieb: please ask in the channel, not specific persons... although #ltsp isn't appropriate for that question, as it's not ltsp-specific, maybe you should be asking in #ubuntu instead
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| 12:16 | <bieb> alkisg: wouldnt it be ltsp specific if I was adjusting the launchbar to add to the image?
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| 12:16 | <alkisg> bieb: if you _knew_ how to adjust it but not how to put it in the image, then yeah. But you _don't_ need to put the adjustment in the image.
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| 12:17 | You're free to ask anything of course; I'm just saying that you may find more suitable channels.
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| 12:17 | <jimjimovich> bieb: http://askubuntu.com/questions/65900/how-can-i-change-default-settings-for-new-users
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| 12:17 | <bieb> alkisg: why doesnt the adjustment to the launcher get added to the image?
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| 12:18 | <alkisg> Because it's inside the user session which runs on the server
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| 12:19 | <bieb> ohh I was thinking that I had to update the image
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| 12:37 | <crissi> hello
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| 12:38 | how i can store the positions of the clients in epoptes?
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| 12:58 | <alkisg> crissi: you can't, they're sorted by name/hostname only
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| 12:58 | It will be implemented in the future
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| 13:00 | <crissi> it made a bug report (and some others) :)
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| 13:27 | <yopla> hi there
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| 13:36 | <yopla> is there a minimal working lts.conf?
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| 13:36 | <ogra_> yes, remove it
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| 13:36 | <yopla> as soon as I put one on tftp server, I get black screen
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| 13:36 | <ogra_> cant go more minimal and ltsp will default to autodetection
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| 13:37 | lts.conf should only be used where autodetection bits dont work properly or to override defaults
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| 13:37 | <yopla> it is to launch xinit script
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| 13:37 | <ogra_> theoretically your setup should boot without one in place
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| 13:37 | <yopla> without it works
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| 13:38 | <ogra_> so you likely picked a wrong option or some such
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| 13:39 | <yopla> something like SCREEN_O2=shell
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| 13:39 | <ogra_> is that a capital O instead of a zero ?
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| 13:39 | <yopla> no sorry,
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| 13:39 | 0
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| 13:39 | <ogra_> well, that should give you a console login on tty2
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| 13:44 | <yopla> [default]
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| 13:44 | SCREEN_02=shell
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| 13:44 | <ogra_> yes, that should work fine and get you a logged in console on tty2
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| 13:44 | <yopla> I get black screen
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| 13:45 | <ogra_> did you try pressing ctrl+alt+f2 ?
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| 13:45 | might just be that you dont end up on the right tty after boot
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| 13:47 | <yopla> nothing else than balck screen
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| 13:47 | keyaboard seems working
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| 13:49 | <yopla> I can ssh on it
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| 13:50 | openvt -f -c 2 -s -- /usr/share/ltsp/screen_session 02 seems the correct process
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| 14:41 | <mealstrom> is there any resources where people can share configurations of ltsp/success stories or something like this?
| |
| 14:44 | <bieb> I have asked this in ubuntu also with no answer.. if anyone can point me in the right direction it would be appreciated.. need help with defining "JAVA_HOME" I have added it to the end of the "Path" line in /etc/environment (...:/use/games:JAVA_HOME=/usr/share/java") and also tried it as its own line in environment (JAVA_HOME="/usr/share/java" neither seem to work, the print payment program that needs java keeps telling me JAVA_HOME is not defined!
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| 14:48 | <Hyperbyte> mealstrom, there will be soon. A team is working on a new website and wiki. :)
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| 14:50 | bieb, have you Google for the error "JAVA_HOME is not defined"
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| 14:50 | ?
| |
| 14:50 | Because I get over 100.000 results... should be something interesting in there
| |
| 14:52 | <bieb> Hyperbyte: yeah.. I followed http://magnus-k-karlsson.blogspot.se/2012/04/how-to-set-javahome-environment.html that was the reason I posted here.. I am still looking.. but thought Magnus had a good setup..
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| 15:01 | <bieb> Hyperbyte: I think I got it.. will know in a few mins.. thanks
| |
| 15:09 | <jvx> sorry for beginner q: I have clients now hanging at 'trying to load pxelinux.cfg/default' on a month-old ltsp ubuntu server running dnsmasq proxy setup. Usual search engine didn't uncover good help. thx
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| 15:13 | <mealstrom> is there tft-server installed?
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| 15:14 | what distro?
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| 15:19 | <jvx> mealstrom, Ubuntu 11.10. It's been working great. I'm seeing in var/log/syslog: "dnsmasq-dhcp .. bootfile ... pxelinux.0" and "next server" like it's searching.
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| 15:32 | <jvx> mealstrom, but the file seems to be at /opt/ltsp/i386/boot/pxelinux.0 (and also /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/syslinux/pxelinux.0 and /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0)
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| 15:59 | <yopla> I'm back with further test. It finaly worked with this config
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| 15:59 | [default]
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| 15:59 | XKBLAYOUT="fr"
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| 15:59 | SCREEN_07="ldm"
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| 15:59 | SCREEN_03="shell"
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| 15:59 | <yopla> if i put something else for SCREEN_07 I get black screen
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| 16:29 | <yopla> Is ldmgtkgreet customizable ?
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| 16:41 | <yopla> [default]
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| 16:41 | XKBLAYOUT="fr"
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| 16:41 | SCREEN_07="xterm"
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| 16:41 | SCREEN_03="shell"
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| 16:41 | works too
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| 16:53 | <yopla> finaly my screend.d script was not correct
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| 16:55 | Ltsp needs at least 1 correct xinit screen.d to work properly
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| 16:59 | <yopla> now my config : Unbuntu i386 precise with ltsp-serverltsp-image with vmware-view client AND
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| 16:59 | now my config : Unbuntu i386 precise with ltsp-serverltsp-image with vmware-view client AND
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| 17:00 | now my config : Unbuntu i386 precise with ltsp-server
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| 17:00 | ltsp-image with vmware-view client AND Usb + audo redirect support
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| 17:00 | Thank you Team for such a nice project
| |
| 17:02 | and sorry for my poor multiline chat
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| 17:10 | <yopla> In 100% Linux config, have you ever thought of an x2go integration ?
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| 17:10 | I have tried this remote Session, found it awsome !
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| 17:11 | <ogra_> the packages arent sanely integratabvle in a distro
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| 17:12 | (they ship a complete and outdated version of X)
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| 17:12 | <yopla> ho did'nt know
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| 17:13 | <ogra_> its great software but sadly wont be integrated in any distro until thats fixed
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| 17:13 | (unless your distro doesnt care about security or maintainability)
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| 17:14 | <yopla> from server side ?
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| 17:15 | <ogra_> from both sides
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| 17:15 | no distro developer will step up for maintaining a package that contains a several years old copy of X
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| 17:16 | <yopla> stativcally linked old X ?
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| 17:17 | <ogra_> right
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| 17:17 | <yopla> shame
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| 17:17 | x2goclient is in precise
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| 17:18 | universe
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| 17:19 | <ogra_> yep
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| 17:20 | <yopla> could be in good way then
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| 17:22 | <ogra_> well, you wont see the server side until NX fixes the code
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| 17:22 | i think the client bits just come in from debian
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| 17:27 | <yopla> OK,
| |
| 17:27 | Thank you for information.
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| 17:27 | Anyways, LDM still rocks
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| 18:07 | <vagrantc> whoah. flood of epoptes bug reports...
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| 18:19 | <Phantomas> vagrantc: it's the italc developer sabotaging us :p
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| 18:20 | <vagrantc> Phantomas: seriously?
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| 18:20 | <Phantomas> haha, no, just kidding :)
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| 18:21 | <vagrantc> oh, good.
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| 19:08 | <vagrantc> !lock
| |
| 19:08 | <ltsp`> vagrantc: (lock [<channel>] <key>) -- Locks the factoid(s) associated with <key> so that they cannot be removed or added to. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent in the channel itself.
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| 19:08 | <vagrantc> !lockscreen
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| 19:08 | <ltsp`> vagrantc: Error: "lockscreen" is not a valid command.
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| 19:08 | <vagrantc> !gnome-screensaver
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| 19:08 | <ltsp`> vagrantc: Error: "gnome-screensaver" is not a valid command.
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| 19:08 | <vagrantc> meh.
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| 19:08 | !screen-lock
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| 19:08 | <ltsp`> vagrantc: Error: "screen-lock" is not a valid command.
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| 19:08 | <vagrantc> ltsp`: factoids search lock
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| 19:09 | ltsp`: factoids search --values lock
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| 19:31 | <Phantomas> !ltsp
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| 19:31 | <ltsp`> Phantomas: ltsp: LTSP is the Linux Terminal Server Project, the open source thin client solution. You can find it at http://www.ltsp.org
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| 19:31 | <Phantomas> !disable_lock_screen
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| 19:31 | <ltsp`> Phantomas: disable_lock_screen: To disable screen locking for new users in gnome: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults --type boolean --set /desktop/gnome/lockdown/disable_lock_screen 1. To enable it for a specific user, from that user account run: gconftool-2 --type boolean --set /desktop/gnome/lockdown/disable_lock_screen 0.
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| 19:59 | <vagrantc> Phantomas: thanks :)
| |
| 19:59 | found it elsewhere
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| 19:59 | * alkisg waves to vagrantc... whenever you got some time for the ltsp packaging, if you could commit the "missing" changes (even if they're not the best solution they do at least allow building on launchpad), and the lts.conf example,... ...then I could build directly from your packaging tree ;) | |
| 19:59 | <vagrantc> the bot is really useful if you remember exactly what you're looking for :)
| |
| 20:00 | <Phantomas> np :)
| |
| 20:00 | <vagrantc> that wave contained an impressive amount of content!
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| 20:00 | <alkisg> haha
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| 20:00 | Tsunami
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| 20:01 | vagrantc: so, what do you have in your TODO list until the next debian upload?
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| 20:01 | (ltsp upload)
| |
| 20:02 | ...please don't say pxelinux menus :P
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| 20:02 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i keep misplacing my TODO list
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| 20:02 | alkisg: i'd like to test the "ltsp-update-image --config /" again, see if it was just a fluke
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| 20:03 | <alkisg> --cleanup... hmm let me test on debian/lxde btw
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| 20:03 | <vagrantc> alkisg: and i'd like to fix the "debuild -b -tc" correctly.
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| 20:03 | alkisg: so ... ltsp-update-image / really should always be run with --cleanup ... maybe we should/could make a separate option for it?
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| 20:04 | <alkisg> The --cleanup option is supposed to help with .vdi images or real client images too, the "/" is just another use for it
| |
| 20:04 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yes, but the syntax is a little odd to remember.
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| 20:04 | alkisg: it seems like a use-case that could justify it's own commandline option.
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| 20:07 | <alkisg> ltsp-update-image --ltsp-pnp :P
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| 20:08 | * alkisg should note in the prerequisites wiki section though that / should all be in one partition, at least for now | |
| 20:10 | <vagrantc> alkisg: not supporting a separate /boot is frustrating
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| 20:11 | <vagrantc> alkisg: could it at least special-case boot to bind-mount it too?
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| 20:11 | <alkisg> vagrantc: what about a separate /usr? Do people use that a lot? Or other dirs?
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| 20:11 | Sure it wouldn't be hard to special-case /boot or even a few more dirs
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| 20:11 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i don't know how much people use other partitions
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| 20:12 | alkisg: or at least a way to define which partitions need to be mounted?
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| 20:12 | <alkisg> But I wonder if /boot is really needed in the image... yeah that ^ is probably the most sensible thing to do for now, or maybe try to autodetect them
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| 20:12 | <vagrantc> ltsp-update-image --cleanup /,/boot/,/usr ?
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| 20:12 | looks ugly.
| |
| 20:13 | alkisg: considering that /boot is where the kernels are, i think it's pretty important, no?
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| 20:13 | <alkisg> EXTRA_MOUNTS=/boot,/usr etc in ltsp-update-image.conf?
| |
| 20:13 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yeah ... something like that ... although it's kind of ugly ... the beauty of this whole idea is that "it just works" :)
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| 20:13 | <alkisg> vagrantc: if ltsp-update-image is smart enough to tell ltsp-update-kernels to get them from the server /boot, I'm not sure they're needed
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| 20:14 | <vagrantc> alkisg: but if you want to move that image to another server, you'll need to mmanually move the kernels too ... there is a certain simplicity that everything you need is actually shipped in the image file.
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| 20:14 | <alkisg> But it sounds complex, specifying more dirs to bind-mount sounds much saner
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| 20:15 | <vagrantc> alkisg: what's so ugly about mounting all the dirs into the rofs?
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| 20:15 | <alkisg> No I meant the opposite
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| 20:15 | omitting kernels == ugly, mounting dirs == sane
| |
| 20:15 | <vagrantc> ok.
| |
| 20:15 | alkisg: but why not mount those dirs automaticallly?
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| 20:15 | alkisg: and then a list of excluded dirs?
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| 20:16 | <alkisg> Not with rbind though, we don't want /dev as I think it'll cause problems
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| 20:16 | Only "real" partitions under / should be mounted
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| 20:16 | <vagrantc> so leave it as an excluded dir.
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| 20:16 | <alkisg> We do want the dev nodes though
| |
| 20:16 | ...or are they all generated on boot if they're missing?
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| 20:17 | <vagrantc> it needs some rudimentary ones ... but they should be present on the underlying /
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| 20:17 | <alkisg> OK I'll try to find a way to bind-mount only physical partitions
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| 20:17 | <vagrantc> or do bind-mounts hide what's underneath mountpoints that aren't also bind-mounted?
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| 20:18 | <alkisg> I lost you, re-reading that a couple of times... :P
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| 20:18 | <vagrantc> it's confusing :)
| |
| 20:18 | <alkisg> What I'm saying is that if we put /dev/* in ltsp-update-image.excludes, that will cause problems, right?
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| 20:18 | <vagrantc> ok, so right now, you bind-mount / to tmpdir/rofs .... and does that have the appropriate /dev nodes?
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| 20:19 | alkisg: yes!
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| 20:19 | <alkisg> Yes, but without the actual data
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| 20:19 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so have a separate mount excludes.
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| 20:19 | <alkisg> So e.g. /dev/sda3 there won't be copied in the image
| |
| 20:19 | What if there's an NFS mount in, say, /srv/something? Do we want that included by default?
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| 20:19 | <vagrantc> iterate through /proc/mounts, mount all the filesystems that aren't excluded ... done ?
| |
| 20:20 | so have some criteria for exclusion
| |
| 20:20 | <alkisg> Since ltsp-pnp targets more novice users, maybe we could only have an include list, and not an exclude one?
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| 20:20 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i think an include list will require them to actually understand why it wasn't working
| |
| 20:20 | alkisg: whereas an exclude list could have some sane defaults.
| |
| 20:22 | alkisg: for /dev, it wouldn't be any different than how we don't manually mount /dev now.
| |
| 20:22 | <alkisg> Sooo.... loop through /proc/mounts, omit everything that starts with /dev, /sys, /proc/, /run, and bind all the rest except the ones in the excludes list?
| |
| 20:23 | <vagrantc> basicaaly, yeah?
| |
| 20:23 | <alkisg> ...and we'd need them sorted so that they're mounted in order. Hm. OK, sounds like a plan.
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| 20:23 | <vagrantc> dunno how ugly that exclude list is going to get :)
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| 20:24 | but it wouldn't limit us to single-partition installs...
| |
| 20:24 | which would be nice :)
| |
| 20:24 | <alkisg> Urm "/" is listed twice in my /proc/mounts
| |
| 20:24 | <vagrantc> right, some sanity checking will be needed
| |
| 20:25 | <alkisg> gvfs mounts should also probably be omitted...
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| 20:25 | <vagrantc> maybe even tmpfs
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| 20:27 | i wonder about /home in general
| |
| 20:29 | <alkisg> vagrantc: http://paste.debian.net/171995/
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| 20:29 | /home is omitted anyways from ltsp-update-image.excludes
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| 20:30 | <vagrantc> alkisg: are you envisioning this something for ubuntu 12.04+ and wheezy+?
| |
| 20:30 | alkisg: but yeah, that looks good.
| |
| 20:31 | <alkisg> vagrantc: what part? The whole --cleanup / concept? I'll start using it in a month in all schools here with 12.04, but I don't think it'll be backported. And I hope you'll put it in wheezy... :)
| |
| 20:31 | (backported == in ubuntu 12.04 backports or updates)
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| 20:31 | Dunno how stgraber feels about ltsp backports though
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| 20:31 | It'd be nice if we had the debian wheezy version in ubuntu 12.04.1
| |
| 20:32 | <vagrantc> it's a big diff.
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| 20:32 | alkisg: hopefully will upload to Debian on friday ... we'll call it LTSP 5.4.0 ?
| |
| 20:33 | * vagrantc disappears for a spell | |
| 20:33 | <alkisg> Sounds good, I can then put ltsp-server-standalone >= 5.4.0 in sch-scripts/debian/control...
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| 23:55 | <hays> is there a way to run ltsp in a non-dedicated way, e.g. on a server with other services and on a client with an OS installed such as windows?
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| 23:57 | <vagrantc> LTSP is just a collection of services, so you if you can run those services on your server, you can run an LTSP server.
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| 23:58 | for the client-side stuff, if you're not running the LTSP booted OS, it's just not LTSP ...
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| 23:58 | you might connect to an LTSP service ... but there is no LTSP protocol.
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| 23:58 | hays: are you looking for some sort of remote desktop functionality?
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| 23:59 | <hays> yeah, sorta. I mean quite literally a remote desktop would be just vnc
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| 23:59 | i think it would be nice to have my linux machine able to serve up a graphhical login/desktop to my other machines
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