IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 1 November 2007 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:59 | <edgarin> Hi to all
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| 03:30 | <kwak> hi, i'm using k12ltsp 5 EL, anybody knows how to upgrade openoffice to the latest release?
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| 04:12 | <mathesis> se vagrantc
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| 04:12 | http://donmanolo2.sourceforge.net/ <<<<------------- good projecy
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| 04:13 | i want implement don manolo Point of Sale + LTSP :D
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| 04:13 | you know other apps?
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| 04:17 | <vagrantc> mathesis: only POS i know anything about is is4c
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| 04:17 | and then very little
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| 04:17 | mathesis: http://www.wedge.coop/is4c/
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| 04:20 | <mathesis> vagrantc: is gpl isc4c?
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| 04:20 | <vagrantc> mathesis: i don't know the exact liscense- it's open source
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| 04:22 | <mathesis> vagrantc: i need isc4 in spanish :D
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| 04:24 | vagrantc: has instalado is4c con ltsp para produccion?
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| 04:25 | <vagrantc> mathesis: no con ltsp
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| 04:26 | <mathesis> IS4C became identified with the code which was then official released under the GNU GPL license.
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| 04:26 | vagrantc: con que?
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| 04:27 | <vagrantc> mathesis: con installaciones con disco duros
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| 04:28 | <mathesis> okas
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| 04:29 | vagrantc: conoces algun otro sistema interesante para complementarlo con ltsp?
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| 04:29 | <vagrantc> mathesis: no
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| 04:30 | voy a dormir
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| 05:05 | <osl> I am trying to force dhcp3-server to assign a fixed address to a client , but it's not working , does this have anything to do with LTSP ?
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| 05:07 | cyberorg, ccherrett gu_ ibt joebaker Joris .. can anyone help ?
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| 05:07 | <cyberorg> osl, yes ltsp keeps its dhcp configuration in /etc/ltsp, it annoyed me too :)
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| 05:08 | <osl> cyberorg, OMG ! It killed me !
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| 05:09 | cyberorg, u saved me life ! thanx
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| 05:09 | <cyberorg> osl, found it?
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| 05:10 | <osl> cyberorg, yeah , i was editing /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf all the time :S
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| 05:10 | cyberorg, do u have any idea how can i force the DHCP server to read its settings from the original file ?
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| 05:10 | <cyberorg> i dont understand what is the purpose of changing standard dhcpd.conf location, so on suse it is /etc/dhcpd.conf
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| 05:11 | osl, ln -s /path/to/original /ltsp's/path/file.conf
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| 05:11 | <osl> cyberorg, that's tricky !
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| 05:12 | cyberorg, it should be set somewhere i guess ?!?!
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| 05:12 | <cyberorg> osl, just linking the two files would ensure that there is only one copy
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| 07:26 | <sonjag> Good morning! Just looking for a bit of help here. I have exports set up so that 2 LTSP servers share one home folder location. It's been working for a few days now, but today, after a reboot of both servers, the export is not being mounted on the "client" server. I'm not sure what to check or what to look for. Any ideas?
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| 07:27 | <Blinny> sonjag: What happens if you mount it manually?
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| 07:28 | <sonjag> Blinny: I haven't tried because I'm nervous that I have users already logged in. They are "seeing" their home folders on the "client' server that are missing their files. If I manually mount, will it just transition over to the mounted home folders?
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| 07:29 | <Blinny> Yes, it will.
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| 07:30 | <sonjag> Blinny: No issues for the user? If not, is the command mount -a?
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| 07:31 | <Blinny> mount -a mounts any unmounted entries in /etc/fstab
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| 07:31 | As far as 'issues for the user' that completely depends on your setup.
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| 07:32 | But, you can either do it now or do it later. :) If it's not 'just working' then you'll need to give it a try by hand to see what errors are being thrown.
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| 07:32 | <sonjag> Blinny: Well, I just tried it and I'm going to go see how my users are doing... wish me luck :)
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| 07:32 | <Blinny> Did it mount?
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| 07:45 | <sonjag> Blinny: mounted fine, but those who had files open couldn't save them to it, so we went to a flash drive and I'll load them later. But no death and destruction.... that's a good day :) Thanks for your help!
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| 07:46 | Blinny: Now for the longer term: why didn't it mount on reboot? Is there something I need to put in to make it mount?
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| 07:49 | <Blinny> What did you do to mount it manually?
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| 08:06 | <sonjag> Blinny: Sorry for the delay, had to help someone. I did mount -a. I do have the mount in fstab, so I thought it would mount automatically on boot.
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| 08:10 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 08:11 | <rhartman> I keep getting a "not a valid image" error when i boot up my thin client, i'm running 5.0 on open suse 10.3, is there a way to manully create an image?
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| 08:11 | <sonjag> Morning sbalneav :)
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| 08:11 | <sbalneav> rhartman: cyberorg would be the fellow who could help you with that.
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| 08:12 | <cyberorg> rhartman, how did you install?
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| 08:12 | <sbalneav> morning sonjag
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| 08:12 | <cyberorg> hi sbalneav
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| 08:12 | <sbalneav> Hey cyberorg.
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| 08:12 | <rhartman> using opensue's yast .ymp file
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| 08:12 | <cyberorg> sbalneav, nice to read about local app :)
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| 08:12 | <rhartman> *opensuse's
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| 08:12 | <sbalneav> Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 08:13 | \o/ for us
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| 08:13 | <cyberorg> rhartman, followed this completely? http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP
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| 08:13 | <sbalneav> We couldn't beleive we got it working so flipping easily!!
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| 08:14 | <cyberorg> sbalneav, DS environment do work magic :)
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| 08:14 | <sbalneav> ltspbot`: learn suse as You can find out about OpenSuSE's LTSP5 implementation at: http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP
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| 08:14 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: The operation succeeded.
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| 08:14 | <sbalneav> !suse
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| 08:14 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: "suse" is You can find out about OpenSuSE's LTSP5 implementation at: http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP
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| 08:14 | * Blinny applauds loudly | |
| 08:14 | <cyberorg> sbalneav, its spelt openSUSE
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| 08:15 | <sbalneav> ah, oh, my apologies
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| 08:15 | <cliebow> sbalneav:link to info om local app??
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| 08:15 | <rhartman> yes, the setup appears to completing just fine, I have double checked all sysconfig settings, DHCP works fine, yet pxelinux.0 supplies a bad image
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| 08:15 | <sbalneav> ltspbot`: forget suse
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| 08:15 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: The operation succeeded.
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| 08:15 | <sbalneav> ltspbot`: learn suse as You can find out about openSUSE's LTSP5 implementation at: http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP
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| 08:15 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: The operation succeeded.
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| 08:16 | <sbalneav> cliebow: At the moment, just the blog post.
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| 08:16 | <cliebow> where??
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| 08:16 | <sbalneav> and in bits and peices on my laptop
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| 08:16 | <cyberorg> rhartman, pastebin your /srv/tftpboot/pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 08:16 | <sbalneav> and of course on the ltsp-localapps page on launchpad.
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| 08:16 | <cyberorg> and output of ll /srv/kiwi-ltsp
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| 08:16 | <Blinny> cliebow: http://ltspthinclient.blogspot.com/2007/11/local-apps-2-next-morning.html
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| 08:16 | <sbalneav> cliebow: Now that I have you, can we get laundry done on the island?
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| 08:17 | <cliebow> there is a launromat in swh
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| 08:17 | <sbalneav> I'll last to saturday, but I'll need to do a load then.
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| 08:17 | <cliebow> or hell just use mine
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| 08:17 | <sbalneav> Wonder if he's got a washer/dryer at the hotel?
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| 08:18 | <cliebow> ill find out..
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| 08:18 | <sbalneav> You are my hero.
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| 08:18 | <cliebow> i wish to be
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| 08:20 | yep:there are laundry facilities
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| 08:20 | at the Seawall
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| 08:20 | <sbalneav> Awesomeissitude.
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| 08:20 | <rhartman> k.. its at http://pastebin.com/m6c96d569
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| 08:21 | <cyberorg> rhartman, are you sure there were no errors when you ran kiwi-ltsp-setup -s ?
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| 08:22 | <rhartman> yes, no error were displayed during install. Are there logs that I should be taking a look at?
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| 08:22 | <cyberorg> rhartman, check if linux and initrd exists in /srv/tftpboot/boot/ and ltsp image in /srv/kiwi-ltsp
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| 08:23 | rhartman, there should be 160M ltsp-suse-10.3.i686-0.0.2 in there
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| 08:24 | logs are onscreen and in kiwi-ltsp.log
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| 08:25 | <rhartman> yeah my ltsp-suse.10.3.i686-.0.0.2 is only 80M
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| 08:26 | <cyberorg> rhartman, hmm so the process has failed somewhere, you can enable LTSP_DEBUG="1" in /etc/sysconfig/kiwi-ltsp and build the image again
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| 08:26 | <rhartman> i will give that a shot and report back
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| 08:27 | <cyberorg> rhartman, make sure you have i586 DVD/iso mounted somewhere and use that as installation source
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| 08:30 | <rhartman> yes, i have the DVD mounted and is pointed to in the kiwi-ltsp portion of sysconfig
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| 08:30 | <cyberorg> rhartman, ok
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| 08:33 | <moquist> sbalneav is my hero.
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| 08:36 | <sbalneav> moquist: yeah, productive halloweeen!
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| 08:37 | <sonjag> Hey all - I'm running a couple of edubuntu 7.04 servers. Both have xterminator installed but I'm not sure it's running. In any case, after a full day of running (yay! a whole day without a crash!! I set the bar low ;) I looked at top this morning to see that 5.2GB of 6GB on one server and 2 out of 3 on the other were being used, and they only had 2 users logged in combined, and those users weren't active. How can I t'shoot this? I hope this makes sense :)
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| 08:38 | <sbalneav> Ram? Probably not a problem
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| 08:38 | Linux allocates free ram as a dynamically resized disk buffer
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| 08:39 | rather than just have ram sitting around "free", it allocates it to disk cache.
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| 08:39 | <sonjag> Yes, RAM. Not a problem? Oh god, just read your second response... what does that mean?
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| 08:39 | <sbalneav> Well, when you write or read to a disk, it keeps a copy in ram, to speed things up
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| 08:40 | run the "free" command.
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| 08:40 | like this:
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| 08:40 | <ogra> sbalneav ROCKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 08:40 | <sbalneav> sbalneav@vger:~$ free total used free shared buffers cached
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| 08:40 | Mem: 506304 500300 6004 0 14212 210204
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| 08:40 | -/+ buffers/cache: 275884 230420
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| 08:40 | Swap: 1485972 0 1485972
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| 08:40 | You'll notice a huge amount of my ram goes to "cached"
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| 08:40 | that's the buffers
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| 08:41 | as you start to use more ram with user processes, it will just steal away some of the buffers, and use it for user processes.
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| 08:41 | so it always looks like you're using all your ram.
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| 08:41 | Which is a good thing. If you paid for it, you might as well use it for something :)
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| 08:41 | ogra: :)
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| 08:42 | <sonjag> sbalneav: thanks :) you do rock. In top, it does have a buffers stat... same thing?
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| 08:42 | <sbalneav> right, that's for network buffering, etc.
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| 08:43 | the IMPORTAND line is the second column of "swap"
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| 08:43 | You'll notice mine is "0"
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| 08:43 | That means I'm not swapping.
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| 08:43 | so long as THAT number is either 0, or a very low percentage of the total swap, then you're ok.
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| 08:43 | <sonjag> This morning, I did see some swap on the 3G machine. I know I swap when kids are logged in at times. Should the swap clear itself out when users log out? Or does it just stay there?
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| 08:44 | <sbalneav> yes, clears it'sef out.
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| 08:44 | <sonjag> so something's not quite right if I have plenty of RAM but swap is still being used?
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| 08:44 | <sbalneav> When you move to the -server kernel on the other machine, and get the full amount of memory, things will improve there too.
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| 08:45 | Well, a little swap isn't a problem (10-15%), but if you're using 50% of swap, something's eating ram.
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| 08:45 | <sonjag> I built the NFS server yesterday and will try to get that up and running this weekend. Once that's up, I'll rebuild Mendel.
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| 08:45 | Mendel will then have server kernel
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| 08:46 | <sbalneav> That will help
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| 08:46 | <sonjag> So I think something's eating RAM, but Mendel's going to get rebuilt pretty soon so I won't worry.
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| 08:47 | <sbalneav> if the 6 gig one's ok, and the 3 gig one's not, then I'd say that's a fair assessment
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| 08:48 | <sonjag> My other issue this morning was that I rebooted both Mendel (serving the export) and Crick (mounting the export) is that Crick didn't get it's export automatically on reboot. I did a mount -a when I found out and all was fine, but why didn't it mount on reboot?
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| 08:48 | <sbalneav> hm
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| 08:49 | <sonjag> If Mendel boots slower than Crick and the export isn't ready when Crick looks for it, does it just fail or try again?
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| 08:49 | <sbalneav> I'm assuming you let mendel completely boot before you rebooted crick?
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| 08:49 | It'll just fail
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| 08:49 | <sonjag> That's gotta be it. When I have an NFS server that's always up (hah!) then this probably won't happen. Thanks!
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| 08:59 | <rhartman> cyberorg: i have reinstalled using kiwi-ltsp-setup -s and have included the status of the installation at http://pastebin.com/d2692fb24, you can iqnore the DHCP error for which i have manually corrected it
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| 09:01 | <jammcq> sbalneav: hey, you around?
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| 09:02 | <rhartman> cd ..
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| 09:03 | <jammcq> ogra: ping
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| 09:03 | <cyberorg> rhartman, looks ok, did it create 160mb image?
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| 09:04 | <rhartman> yes 158M
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| 09:05 | i'm not so sure why it all of a sudden worked, i have compleated that same process multiple times
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| 09:06 | mc
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| 09:07 | <cyberorg> coll, gotto go
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| 09:15 | <sbartleylinux> jammcq, hey there.
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| 09:15 | <sbalneav> Back
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| 09:15 | <jammcq> sbartleylinux: hey, you in boston?
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| 09:15 | <sbartleylinux> yep
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| 09:16 | <jammcq> sbartleylinux: hey, the docs you did for Edubuntu, did you use docbook for that?
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| 09:16 | sbartleylinux: having fun?
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| 09:16 | <sbartleylinux> much fun.
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| 09:16 | learning massive amount.
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| 09:17 | docs for edubuntu??? was that for someone else?
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| 09:17 | <jammcq> oop
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| 09:17 | <sbartleylinux> :)
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| 09:17 | <jammcq> that was for the other sba*
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| 09:17 | <sbartleylinux> kinda thought so.
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| 09:18 | <jammcq> sbalneav: hey, the docs you did for Edubuntu, did you use docbook for that?
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| 09:19 | <rhartman> cyberorg:it appears to be working so far, I have booted my thin client, and it's displaying "Loading X.X.X.X:pxelinux.0 .." with a new dot added after some time..
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| 09:20 | <sbalneav> jammcq: Yep
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| 09:28 | <rhartman> cyberorg : It now appears to read the image, no longer have the invalid image error, now it just hangs on "Loading x.x.x.x:pxelinux.0 ..."
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| 09:28 | <cyberorg> rhartman, your dhcp ip etc might not be configured right
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| 09:29 | <rhartman> alright, i'll give it a look over.
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| 09:47 | <tempb0y> morning all
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| 09:48 | anyone know of thin client that has a/v out for connection to TV?
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| 09:51 | <sbalneav> I use via eden EPIA 5000's which have it, but I've never tried it.
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| 09:55 | <tempb0y> ok. i want to try and run mythtv in ltsp and connect thin clients to it to play a/v throughout home
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| 09:55 | dvds, recorded shows, etc.
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| 09:55 | will it work with ltsp?
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| 09:56 | <sbalneav> No idea
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| 09:56 | I've never played with mythtv
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| 09:56 | GIYF
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| 09:59 | <tempb0y> giyf?
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| 10:02 | ahh google :)
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| 10:02 | thanks
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| 10:28 | <sonjag> moquist: you there? If so, how do you know if xterminator is running?
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| 10:41 | <dtrask> sonjag: one way is if the login process appears to be quite a bit longer
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| 10:42 | sonjag: try this....if you haven't done so....install htop
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| 10:42 | <moquist> sonjag: hey dere
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| 10:42 | dere = "there" with a stuffy nose.... not "dear" :p
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| 10:42 | <dtrask> sonjag: once you have...let me know and I can show you how you can see xterminator in action
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| 10:42 | <moquist> sonjag: ps auxwwf | grep xterminator
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| 10:42 | sonjag: do that while a user is logged in
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| 10:43 | sonjag: and/or log in a user123 on one terminal, and then log in as user123 on another terminal connected to the same server
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| 10:44 | <dtrask> sonjag: a cool way to watch it work is to run htop focused on one user....not exactly sure of the syntax, but something like htop -u dtrask
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| 10:45 | <dtrask> sonjag: log in to a terminal as a user....open a bunch of stuff...firefox...openoffice...etc. Then shut off the terminal (to leave things hanging)....then turn it back on or move to another terminal connected to the same server
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| 10:46 | in terminal on another server run htop -u username (with the username you just used a min ago)
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| 10:46 | <moquist> dtrask: too much work. just log in as the same user on two different terminals. *shrug*
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| 10:46 | <dtrask> sonjag: you should see the processes still running
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| 10:48 | keep it on where you can see it....log back in as the user and watch the processes die in real time on htop....Yes, it's more time consuming than moquists method, but gives you an actually visual picture of what is happening. In other words, PROOF ;-)
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| 10:48 | * moquist thinks that a suddenly toasted login session is visual proof | |
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| 10:50 | * dtrask thinks that it only works if logged into same server again...in dhcp load balance that can sometimes be a crap shoot | |
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| 10:51 | * dtrask acknowledges that moquist is right, but my way is "funner" | |
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| 11:01 | <rhartman_> cyberorg: just to be clear on things, the host's TFTP server should be enabled, correct. This was disabled, which was causing the hang, now that TFTP is once again enabled i'm receiving the "not a valid image " again
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| 11:02 | <cyberorg> rhartman_, kiwi-ltsp-setup -s enables tftp server too
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| 11:03 | <cyberorg> line 3551 in your paste: Starting INET services. (xinetd) done
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| 11:04 | <rhartman_> correct.
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| 11:04 | <cyberorg> rhartman_, can you pastebin /etc/dhcpd.conf and ifconfig
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| 11:04 | and also /etc/sysconfig/kiwi-ltsp
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| 11:09 | <rhartman_> http://pastebin.com/d145a5b4a
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| 11:11 | <cyberorg> rhartman_, is eth2 marked as internal device in firewall?
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| 11:11 | <rhartman_> the firewall is turned off for that interface
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| 11:12 | <cyberorg> can you walk me through the boot process on screen?
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| 11:15 | <moquist> sonjag: sbalneav has a cleaner reimplementation of 'xterminator' that will be available soon. :)
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| 11:16 | <rhartman_> thin client is turned on, states, " Probing...[RTL8139] Found Reltek 8139 ROM address 0x000 - ioaddr 0xe00, addrr (mac address) 10mps full duplex"
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| 11:16 | "Searching for server (DHCP)....
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| 11:18 | Me 192.168.167.100, Server: 192.168.167.254, Gateway 192.168.167.254 Loading `92.168.167.254:pxelinux.0 ...error: not a valid image Unable to load file <sleep>
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| 11:18 | then loops that same message multiple times
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| 11:18 | MagicStorm has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:18 | <cyberorg> rhartman_, hmm, try this : cp /usr/share/syslinux/pxelinux.0 /srv/tftpboot/
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| 11:20 | <rhartman_> performed that , rebooted the thin client and still error message
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| 11:20 | <cyberorg> remove /srv/tftpboot/pxelinux.0 first
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| 11:21 | <rhartman_> k.
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| 11:22 | <rhartman_> still posting same error
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| 11:22 | <cyberorg> does that read `92.168.167.254:pxelinux.0 ? or 192.168....
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| 11:23 | Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:23 | <rhartman_> 192.168.167.254:pxelinux.0 .. sorry
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| 11:24 | <cyberorg> rhartman_, what is ll /srv/tftpboot/boot ?
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| 11:25 | <rhartman_> initrd 20M ..linux 1.6M ...linux.md5
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| 11:27 | <cyberorg> rhartman_, here is my config http://pastebin.com/m2a69e693
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| 11:27 | <rhartman_> alright.. give me a few to compare..
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| 11:36 | <sonjag> dtrask and moquist: thanks to you both (I went away for a bit... back now). I will install htop. I have many users logged in, so can I just pick one, or do they need to be logged out to see if this is working?
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| 11:40 | dtrask: I just tried it with a user who's logged in and see lots of stuff going on. I searched for xterminator and didn't see it. Should I see it when logged in?
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| 11:40 | moquist: I ran ps auxwwf | grep xterminator and only saw my ps search... I don't think xterminator is running.
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| 11:40 | <dtrask> I'd use an account that you can log in and out and watch without messing with anyone else...up to your
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| 11:47 | <sonjag> dtrask: I can do that... thanks... will try it.
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| 11:53 | <dtrask> sonjag: keep up posted
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| 11:59 | tux_440volt has quit IRC | |
| 11:59 | <rhartman_> cyberorg: after close comparison I can find no differences other then the internal IP's
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| 12:00 | <cyberorg> rhartman_, try reinstalling syslinux and copy new pxelinux.0
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| 12:16 | <moquist> sonjag: nope, it's not, then.
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| 12:16 | <rhartman_> cyberorg: I will give that a try, but first I feel thats it important to mention that we did a 10.1 to 10.3 openSUSE upgrade on the host machine that was running ltsp 4.2 just fine. We feel we removed all the 4.2 packages manually Then attempted the install of 5... thats where we are now..
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| 12:17 | <sonjag> moquist: how can I start it?
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| 12:17 | <cyberorg> rhartman_, our ltsp5 implementation is nowhere close to replacing 4.2 :) what are your clients like?
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| 12:18 | rhartman_, our implementation works best with clients with 256MB ram
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| 12:19 | <rhartman_> its a purpose built thin client from disklessworkstations.com
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| 12:19 | <cyberorg> 10.1 - > 10.3 is a huge jump, it is recommended that you do fresh 10.3 install, are client 256mb?
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| 12:22 | <rhartman_> the clients have 128mb
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| 12:22 | they are TK-3350
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| 12:24 | <cyberorg> rhartman_, it is quite difficult to boot 128 mb currently due to initrd size, hopefully we will cut it down soon
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| 12:26 | <rhartman_> well then thats most likely my issue, correct?..
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| 12:27 | <cyberorg> rhartman_, no, you should get past loading kernel and initrd at least
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| 12:28 | your client doesnt seem to get past pxelinux.0
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| 12:29 | <scrapbunny> is there anyway to improve internet speed on thin clients using edubuntu 7.10?
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| 12:29 | <Blinny> Is there any push to put all the ltsp-* programs under a gui umbrella, I'm thinking combined with the update manager when new client kernels are available?
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| 12:29 | scrapbunny: You mean, make your Internet downloads faster?
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| 12:32 | <scrapbunny> downloads and page loading. i have 3 thin clients running and firefox takes a long time to load. i am trying to set up a 32 station lab and understand the speed will be slower using thin clients but this is REALLY slow
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| 12:36 | <ZiXon> running or starting?
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| 12:36 | firefox booting == slow
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| 12:39 | <scrapbunny> is there a better browser for thin clients?
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| 12:40 | never mind, i don't want to give up firefox now that i got java, flash and sound working
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| 12:40 | <Blinny> scrapbunny: There are a few possible causes. 1) Slow network -- IE, 10mpbs - especially if /home is served over NFS and firefox uses it for caching pages/images 2) Tunneling X traffic through SSH, which is now the default in 7.10 3) Slow server -- swapping, etc
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| 12:41 | putty_thing has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:42 | <scrapbunny> i think the main cause might be that our slow is in the middle of switching from dsl to fiber
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| 12:42 | <rhartman_> cyberrog : would it be worth reverting back to 4.2, or is 4.2 no longer supported?
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| 12:43 | <moquist> sonjag: what does dpkg -l xterminator tell you?
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| 12:44 | (i.e., version)
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| 12:44 | MagicStorm has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:45 | <moquist> sonjag: /etc/X11/Xsession.d/10-xterminator is what should start xterminator whenever anyone logs in
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| 12:45 | <ltsppbot> "sonjag" pasted "dpkg -l xterminator" (6 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/338
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| 12:46 | <sonjag> moquist: I pasted the results on the pastebot <http://pastebot.ltsp.org/338>
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| 12:47 | <moquist> sonjag: yes, I saw them already :)
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| 12:47 | <rhartman_> cyberorg : would it be worth reverting back to 4.2, or is 4.2 no longer supported?
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| 12:47 | <moquist> sonjag: the version looks good; what does /etc/X11/Xsession.d/10-xterminator have in it?
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| 12:48 | <Blinny> scrapbunny: Your network connection does not affect Firefox launching speed (time between clicking icon & window showing).
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| 12:48 | <cyberorg> rhartman_, 4.2 is not being developed any more, but if it works well for you, keep running it
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| 12:48 | <sonjag> moquist: did the dpkg results mean it's installed? I thought it meant it wasn't!
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| 12:48 | <moquist> sonjag: yes, it is installed
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| 12:49 | <ltsppbot> "sonjag" pasted "cat /etc/X11/Xsession.d/10-xterminator" (5 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/339
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| 12:50 | <rhartman_> well it worked well, I didn't set it up, with the upgrade 4.2 was broke, so we figured 5 would be a simple install by looking at the documents
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| 12:52 | <cyberorg> rhartman_, it is simple on a fresh install and client with 256ram :)
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| 12:52 | <sonjag> moquist: it's posted...
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| 12:55 | <moquist> sonjag: that should be executing xterminator every time anyone logs into the GUI...
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| 12:56 | sonjag: ha ha! NM, xterminator is no longer persistent. You won't see it in the process list.
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| 12:56 | <rhartman_> well then looks, like thats our next project, I want to thank you for all the help in solving this issue...it had me pretty lost..
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| 12:56 | <moquist> sonjag: This changed and I forgot just now.
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| 12:56 | sonjag: The best test is to log into two TCs connected to the same server. The first session should be killed when the second session starts.
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| 12:57 | <scrapbunny> sorry, misunderstood you :) launching of firefox is fine, loading a new page is slow
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| 13:00 | <sonjag> moquist: thanks. I will try that after school ends...
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| 13:04 | <scrapbunny> is there a way to import users into ltsp? I am trying to decide the best way to set up my 600 students that are in 26 classes. any ideas?
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| 13:05 | <cliebow> your logins ARE the llogins of your server
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| 13:30 | <dtrask> hey guys...trying to help someone on the edubuntu channel who wants to bulk-import/create regular users into an edubuntu server (not samba/ldap)....I'm familiar with webmin...does webmin still do this? Anyone have another suggestion?
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| 13:31 | Egyptian[Home] has quit IRC | |
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| 13:32 | * Gadi is a bit bored - wanna write one? | |
| 13:34 | <jammcq> Gadi: did you drive up from NY ?
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| 13:36 | shogunx has quit IRC | |
| 13:37 | <Gadi> jammcq: I did
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| 13:37 | I am now in Red Sox land
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| 13:37 | <jammcq> ooooh, careful
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| 13:37 | <Gadi> I know - head down, head down
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| 14:07 | <cliebow> dtrask:seems like it would be trivial to write a little program to append passwd directly/..
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| 14:11 | <mhterres> hello guys
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| 14:13 | I'm recieving this message when I try to login
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| 14:13 | This workstation isn't authorized to connect to this server
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| 14:13 | any ideas ?
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| 14:14 | <Gadi> sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys ; sudo ltsp-update-image
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| 14:15 | <mhterres> hmmm
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| 14:15 | off course
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| 14:17 | <mhterres> Gadi: why this ?
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| 14:18 | <mhterres> Gadi: and if I update the sshkeys, mount the image and update the files ?
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| 14:18 | :-)
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| 14:19 | <Gadi> mhterres: the error usually indicates that the server you are connecting to does not have the appropriate ssh keys in the chroot
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| 14:19 | (to make it a known host)
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| 14:19 | <mhterres> great
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| 14:20 | but why do you use ssh ?
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| 14:20 | :-0
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| 14:21 | :-)
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| 14:21 | <sbalneav> For security
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| 14:21 | <mhterres> ok
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| 14:22 | Marlon asks: security of what ? :-)
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| 14:22 | <Gadi> security, network transparency, client-server communications
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| 14:22 | seems ssh is becoming the backbone of ltsp
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| 14:22 | :)
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| 14:22 | <sbalneav> The password
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| 14:22 | <Gadi> security of keystrokes between client and server
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| 14:22 | <sbalneav> And, to provide a tunnel that we can use to send commands from the client to the server
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| 14:23 | <Gadi> with XDMCP, you send all text between client and server in the clear
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| 14:23 | incl every password you type from login to websites
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| 14:23 | <mhterres> but is the key associate with the IP ?
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| 14:24 | <Gadi> the IP is a component of it
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| 14:24 | take a look at ssh
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| 14:24 | <mhterres> ok, thanks :-)
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| 14:24 | <Gadi> it has a better explanation than I could give
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| 14:25 | but, in our context, if you change the interface serving the thin clients on the server, you will prolly have to update the ssh keys
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| 14:25 | <sbalneav> When you ssh into a host, unless you already have the host key, you get asked "Are you sure you want to connect to the host"
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| 14:25 | We put the server's host keys into the chroot so that they're sshing into a known host.
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| 14:25 | ZiXon has quit IRC | |
| 14:25 | <sbalneav> So someone can't put a rogue host on the network for you to log into.
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| 14:26 | <mhterres> sbalneav: Yes, I know
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| 14:27 | <Gadi> mhterres: you can undermine the security if you like, by setting StrictHostKeyChecking no on the client chroot
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| 14:27 | ;)
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| 14:27 | MasterOne has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:27 | <MasterOne> hi guys
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| 14:27 | <Gadi> no one says you have to fear the man in the middle :)
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| 14:27 | <mhterres> sbalneav: I guess our problem is exactly that we are deleting and making new keys, every time we generate a new ltsp server, so we need to update the keys
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| 14:27 | Gadi: :-)
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| 14:27 | <MasterOne> I am new to LTSP5, but I am totally amazed by it :)
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| 14:27 | <sbalneav> mhterres: Yup. you'll need to do that.
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| 14:28 | <cliebow> MasterOne ive been in it six years and i am totally amazed by it..
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| 14:28 | <Gadi> MasterOne: we have that effect on people
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| 14:28 | specailly if you lick the code
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| 14:28 | <MasterOne> hehe
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| 14:28 | <Gadi> it's trippy
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| 14:29 | <MasterOne> Somebody with the knowledge about the insides care to answer some questions?
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| 14:29 | <sbalneav> Soon as you ask 'em, we'll answer 'em.
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| 14:29 | <cliebow> zazYou got the best of the bezst of thge best right here 8~)
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| 14:30 | <MasterOne> Is it normal, that LDM crashes with a segmentation fault, if you enter a wrong password 3 times?
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| 14:30 | <Gadi> thats a feature
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| 14:30 | :)
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| 14:30 | <cliebow> hah
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| 14:30 | !!!
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| 14:30 | <ltspbot`> cliebow: Error: "!!" is not a valid command.
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| 14:30 | <cliebow> oh yeah!!
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| 14:30 | <sbalneav> It's a bug, we'll have to fix it.
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| 14:30 | <MasterOne> so I should not worry about it (using Edubuntu 7.10)?
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| 14:30 | <sbalneav> But it recycles like it should anyway, it just shouldn't segfault.
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| 14:31 | <MasterOne> ok
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| 14:31 | <sbalneav> No, it still does what it should, restart the login.
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| 14:31 | <MasterOne> is it possible to change the language of LDM (it always starts in English)?
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| 14:31 | <sbalneav> No
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| 14:31 | No one's done localization yet
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| 14:31 | It'll be done for hardy
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| 14:32 | <MasterOne> ok, no problem then (just wasn't sure if I missed some config file)
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| 14:33 | how would you setup fast user switching on a thin client (the new user switcher applet, that's started by default in *ubuntu 7.10 doesn't work in that case of course)?
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| 14:34 | <sbalneav> The fast user switcher won't work with thin clients, due to the way they work fundamentally.
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| 14:34 | <MasterOne> I know
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| 14:35 | <sbalneav> Quite frankly, I doubt it ever will, on a thin client, anyway. They handle logins functionally differently.
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| 14:35 | * Gadi notes to bring up to ogra disabling applet by default | |
| 14:37 | <sbalneav> brb
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| 14:37 | <MasterOne> if there is no other intended way, I guess the best approach is to just start more than one LDM session, and then swap through with alt+F**
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| 14:39 | <MasterOne> Is it possible to use the additional buttons on mice with more then 3 buttons + 1 scrollwheel?
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| 14:40 | <Gadi> MasterOne: sure - thats an X config
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| 14:41 | <MasterOne> Gadi, but how are the functions for extra buttons be managed (like thumb buttons for forward/backward functionality in firefox, which I formerly only could get to work using imwheel on a normal workstation)?
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| 14:41 | Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:42 | <Gadi> MasterOne: I have never used imwheel, but if its an X client app, you should be able to run it on the server
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| 14:43 | <MasterOne> how about keyboards with extra-buttons?
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| 14:43 | <Q-FUNK> hoi!
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| 14:44 | <Gadi> MasterOne: similar idea - as long as the xserver loads the right keymap...
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| 14:44 | X is network transparent
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| 14:45 | it just takes some thinking of what is a client app to X and what is an X server config
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| 14:45 | Q-FUNK: hey
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| 14:45 | I brought my Thincan to Boston with me
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| 14:45 | <Q-FUNK> oh good
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| 14:45 | i was wondering about that :)
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| 14:45 | <Gadi> I knew you would be
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| 14:46 | maybe we'll get a chance to hack on it a bit
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| 14:46 | ogra has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:46 | <Q-FUNK> the OLPC/AMD guys are sending someone to UDS to fix the last remaining buglets with X.org
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| 14:46 | <Gadi> hmm... is that Bryce?
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| 14:46 | <Q-FUNK> we should get a really nice -amd driver soon
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| 14:46 | <Gadi> I met him for all of 2 secs
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| 14:46 | <Q-FUNK> Bryce is the Ubuntu X maintainer
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| 14:46 | <Gadi> ah
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| 14:46 | <Q-FUNK> he's also in
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| 14:47 | AMD/OLPC are sending a guy called Bernie, whose mission is to find Bryce in the whole lot
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| 14:47 | <Gadi> heh
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| 14:47 | maybe I can find him
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| 14:48 | <Q-FUNK> I guess they meant Bernardo Innocenti
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| 14:49 | <MasterOne> is there any way to check the X server setup on the thin client, except logging into the thin client using the console on SCREEN_1? and any experience with hardware video acceleration?
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| 14:49 | <Q-FUNK> Gadi: did you bring the PXE or LinuxBIOS version?
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| 14:50 | Blinny has quit IRC | |
| 14:51 | <Q-FUNK> the AMD guys are especially fond of the LinuxBIOS+Etherboot version.
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| 14:51 | <Gadi> ah, no
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| 14:51 | I brought PXE
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| 14:51 | MasterOne: right now, that is the way
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| 14:52 | <Q-FUNK> Gadi: ah. well, anyhow, please show it to Bryce and to Bernie. this might be all it takes to get them to hack the missing bits to get clean X support using the -amd driver.
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| 14:53 | <Gadi> will do
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| 14:53 | as soon as I find them ;)
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| 14:54 | <MasterOne> what's a recommended RAM size on the thin client, considering the RAMdisc that's used by the thin client setup and the X server caching / "Firefox" issue (something with very large pictures crashing the thin client session)?
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| 14:54 | <Gadi> I would say 128MB
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| 14:55 | <MasterOne> so with 128MB RAM there will be no issues with crashing do to apps like firefox or evince?
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| 14:55 | <Gadi> tho, with NBD_SWAP, the goal is to support clients with 32MB+
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| 14:55 | MasterOne: with 128MB there will almost never be issues
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| 14:55 | there are always corner cases
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| 14:55 | <MasterOne> is NBD_SWAP switched on by default?
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| 14:55 | <Gadi> (no such thing in life as 'never')
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| 14:56 | hmm... I believe it may be in Gutsy
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| 14:56 | * Gadi forgets what the final call was on that | |
| 14:57 | <Gadi> brb
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| 14:57 | <MasterOne> is it save to just switch off the thin client, instead of first logging out, and then shutting down?
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| 14:59 | <ogra> NBD_SWAP is switched on by default if the initramfs detects that it runs on a client with less than 48M
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| 15:00 | <MasterOne> ogra, so would you say, 128MB is enough to prevent issues with apps like firefox or evince?
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| 15:00 | <ogra> no
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| 15:00 | these issues arent solvable with adding ram
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| 15:00 | you just delay the moment of breakage with that
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| 15:01 | <MasterOne> I have read this issue will be solved in firefox 3
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| 15:01 | <ogra> it doesnt fix the bug in firefox/Xserver design
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| 15:01 | its supposed to, yes
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| 15:01 | but until then the issue is there
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| 15:01 | <MasterOne> but what's the recommended RAM size, without considering the future fix of that software problem?
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| 15:01 | <ogra> adding more ram to the client helps to make it break later but wont solve it
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| 15:03 | <cliebow> Gadi: you gonna make it Maine??
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| 15:03 | <MasterOne> still unsure about the amount of RAM to use in my thin clients
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| 15:03 | ogra, what would you recommend?
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| 15:04 | bobby_C has quit IRC | |
| 15:04 | <Gadi> cliebow: wouldnt miss it for the world
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| 15:04 | <ogra> 128 is usually decent (i never had the mentioned FF issue personally.... but then i dont browse sites with 200M of images)
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| 15:05 | <Gadi> at least there I get clothing thats more my size
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| 15:05 | :)
| |
| 15:06 | <MasterOne> is more RAM to be considered, if the integrated graphics card uses shared memory?
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| 15:06 | <cliebow> hmmm..not so sure whhat that means..but....fair enough..
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| 15:08 | <MasterOne> guys, I have just a few questions left, so please stick with me ;)
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| 15:10 | <ogra> MasterOne, it doesnt really matter on a thin client since the biggest amount of ram is anywayx used for X there
| |
| 15:11 | <MasterOne> is there any difference when thinking about the size of video memory for a thin client, compared to a normal workstation (considering that modern graphics cards have 128 or 256 MB of Video RAM, but I am gonna use a mobo with sis shared video memory)=
| |
| 15:13 | I mean, would it make any sense to go for 256 MB RAM due to the fact, that the integrated video card has no own memory?
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| 15:16 | mhterres has left #ltsp | |
| 15:17 | <MasterOne> if going for an addon graphics card, does it matter if ATI or nVidia for hardware acceleration (I've only seen that page in the ltsp.org wiki talking about adding the proprietary nVidia drivers to an LTSP 4.1.1 system, but couldn't find anything concerning ATI and a hardware accelerated setup on LTSP5)?
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| 15:18 | ogra & Gadi, still here?
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| 15:19 | <Gadi> MasterOne: I believe that question is more a general one about hw accel with ati/nvidia rather than ltsp specific
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| 15:20 | not sure about specifics for specific cards
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| 15:20 | <MasterOne> ok
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| 15:20 | <Gadi> suffice it to say, if you can get it working on a regular PC running Ubuntu, you can get it working on the thin client
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| 15:21 | <MasterOne> so should I go for 256 MB RAM due to the fact, that the integrated video card has no own memory?
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| 15:22 | <Gadi> it shouldnt matter too too much
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| 15:22 | unless you plan on using LOTS of memory for video only
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| 15:22 | but, that may be a waste
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| 15:23 | <MasterOne> my plan is to use a thin client on a 1920x1200 LCD monitor
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| 15:23 | <Gadi> the amount of vid mem you need is largely related to the resolution and color depth
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| 15:23 | ok
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| 15:23 | 16 bit color?
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| 15:24 | <MasterOne> (1920*1200*24)/8= 6,912 MB
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| 15:24 | 24 bit color
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| 15:24 | <Gadi> right
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| 15:24 | <MasterOne> doesn't seem much of a difference
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| 15:24 | wasn't sure if that calculation is all that matters
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| 15:25 | <Gadi> and how many graphical sessions...
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| 15:25 | <MasterOne> most likely 2
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| 15:25 | <Gadi> so, prolly good to reserve 16MB for vid mem
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| 15:25 | at least
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| 15:25 | <MasterOne> has this to be setup explicitly?
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| 15:26 | or is vid mem allocation done automatically?
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| 15:26 | I guess more than 128 MB RAM is pretty much pointless on a thin client then
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| 15:26 | <Gadi> usually in the BIOS
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| 15:26 | with an integrated video chip
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| 15:27 | <MasterOne> ah yes, of course (never had a mobo with integrated video before)
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| 15:27 | ok, two more important questions
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| 15:28 | <MasterOne> is it save to just switch off the thin client, instead of first logging out, and then shutting down?
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| 15:28 | <Gadi> MasterOne: that depends on the desktop
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| 15:28 | gnome will usually leave hanging processes if you dont at least log out first
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| 15:28 | <Gadi> but, you can install a script to kill old processes upon login
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| 15:29 | to mitigate the effects
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| 15:29 | (see: moquist's xterminator)
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| 15:29 | <MasterOne> ok, so better to logoff
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| 15:29 | <Gadi> yup
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| 15:30 | <MasterOne> but once logged off, does it make any difference, if I just switch off the thin client, instead of choosing "shutdown" from the LDM menu?
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| 15:30 | <Gadi> nope
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| 15:30 | its a readonly filesystem
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| 15:32 | <MasterOne> is there any way, to keep the user session on the server running if logging out, to be able to return to the same session on next login (like something with "screen")?
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| 15:33 | <Gadi> ah, thats a tricky (and long desired) thing
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| 15:33 | NX does this
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| 15:33 | <Gadi> but at the expense of lots of caching
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| 15:33 | <MasterOne> it would be so cool if there would be just an option to set, if the session should be closed or kept alive on logout
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| 15:33 | <Gadi> you need a caching Xproxy
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| 15:34 | right
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| 15:34 | but, its more involved
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| 15:34 | <MasterOne> anybody ever succeeded with a LTSP5 setup?
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| 15:34 | <Gadi> so, the short answer is no, not yet
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| 15:34 | :)
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| 15:34 | <MasterOne> hmpf
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| 15:36 | <Gadi> also, session persistence would most likely come at the expense of video performance
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| 15:36 | at least inititally
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| 15:36 | but, that may be fine for most
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| 15:37 | <MasterOne> it's not a must have, but actually I am pretty used to that behavior, because on my laptop I never logout, but just suspend & resume
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| 15:39 | Gadi, I am just reading about xterminator
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| 15:39 | what's the main purpose that program has been written for?
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| 15:40 | <MasterOne> "If your users depend on cron jobs, ssh sessions, or any other type
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| 15:40 | of persistent process that runs before, after, or outside
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| 15:40 | a graphical login session, then xterminator will kill those
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| 15:40 | processes, too."
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| 15:41 | <Gadi> its meant to kill lingering processes that may not die properly upon logout
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| 15:41 | (bec the desktop didnt clean up after itself, etc)
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| 15:42 | <sonjag> I would like to run java apps in firefox. I did an apt-cache search for java and there were a jillion responses. Can someone tell me what to install if this is possible?
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| 15:42 | <Gadi> lingering processes can cause nasty effects to user sessions
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| 15:42 | <MasterOne> so it is a good idea to use it?
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| 15:42 | <Gadi> MasterOne: usually
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| 15:42 | sonjag: GO ELLIS EAGLES!
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| 15:42 | <MasterOne> shouldn't that one be included in the default LTSP5 setup?
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| 15:43 | <sonjag> Gadi: always making me smile :) Howdy... hope the summit's going well for you!
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| 15:43 | <Gadi> MasterOne: it is an application server thing - it has pros and cons
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| 15:43 | its up to you the admin
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| 15:43 | <MasterOne> and the only thing is to "sudo apt-get install xterminator", so no further configuration, right?
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| 15:43 | <Gadi> sonjag: indeed - wrt java: there are lots of java's in the world - Sun's, open source, ...
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| 15:44 | sonjag: I usually go for the sun ones
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| 15:44 | just to make sure that its compatible with most java stuff out there
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| 15:44 | MasterOne: yeah - tho, not sure if its in one of the ubuntu repos or if you have to add moquist's repo
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| 15:45 | <sonjag> masterone: if you're going to install xterminator, you might want to check out this site: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2007-September/002345.html
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| 15:45 | masterone: it gives directions from moquist on how to install
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| 15:45 | <MasterOne> "If you have this on your system, each user can only have one login
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| 15:45 | session at a time."
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| 15:46 | <Gadi> right - but, thats usually preferred anyway
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| 15:46 | <MasterOne> I thought it always was a very bad idea, to log into a graphical session more than once at a time
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| 15:46 | <Gadi> gnome doesnt always like logging in as the same user from 2 different places
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| 15:46 | exactly
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| 15:47 | <sonjag> gadi: thanks... I'll try them later. bye!
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| 15:47 | <MasterOne> I can remember times, when the session management of a DE got pretty much messed up when logging in twice on the same user accoun
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| 15:48 | * Gadi nods | |
| 15:48 | <MasterOne> so using xterminator is a very good think indeed, especially if you try to login a second time by accident
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| 15:49 | pretty cool, I think I should subscribe to that mailinglist
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| 15:54 | ok, thanks a lot for your help, this was very usefull :)
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| 15:54 | <Gadi> welcome, welcome
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| 15:54 | :)
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| 16:50 | <cliebow> Wowww!!!
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| 16:51 | <sbalneav> What's got you excited there cliebow
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| 16:55 | <cliebow> your blog..
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| 16:55 | sbalneav has quit IRC | |
| 16:55 | <cliebow> i just love it!!
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| 17:27 | <ICC> Can anyone advise me about printing in ltsp kiosk mode?
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| 17:52 | <ICC> last call for help printing in LTSP-Kiosk mode?
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| 17:58 | <warren> anybody remember what time jim is leaving boston for maine?
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| 18:50 | <cliebow> yes 9 ish
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| 18:50 | he said
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| 18:52 | 6 or 10 2 1/2 hrs to freeport... there by 1230
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| 18:52 | cripes 9 or 10
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| 21:44 | <petre> \quit
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