IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 7 November 2007 (all times are UTC)
| 00:39 | <warren> cyberorg, is aufs upstream?
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| 00:39 | cyberorg, or heading upstream?
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| 00:39 | <cyberorg> warren, aufs is the distro kernel module, nothing to do with ltsp upstream
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| 00:40 | <warren> cyberorg, no no, I mean upstream kernel
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| 00:40 | <cyberorg> warren, yeah, it is in kernel upstream kernel :)
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| 00:40 | <warren> oh cool
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| 00:41 | <cyberorg> warren, our kernel guys hate it :P
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| 00:41 | they dont want to support unionfs/aufs at all
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| 00:42 | <warren> wait
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| 00:42 | I don't see aufs in the upstream kernel
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| 00:43 | aufs isn't in the upstream kernel
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| 00:43 | I don't know anything about aufs
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| 00:43 | but unionfs will never go upstream
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| 00:44 | <cyberorg> aufs is another unionfs, little better
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| 00:45 | <warren> I know
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| 00:45 | but neither looks like will ever hit upstream
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| 00:45 | thus your kernel guys hate it
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| 00:45 | and I can never use it
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| 00:46 | (although... I don't particularly see a need for it)
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| 00:46 | <cyberorg> warren, hmm, right its not in upstream :(
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| 00:46 | yeah you can get away with bind mounts
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| 00:46 | <warren> gotta sleep
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| 00:46 | ttyl
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| 00:46 | <cyberorg> but having a full rw access to ro squashfs image makes life much easier :) 'night
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| 02:10 | <vagrantc> well, i managed to figure out how to resolve about 29 out of 50 conflicts for ldm ...
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| 02:27 | <vagrantc> well, hell. if i pre-emptively remove directories, it seems to work much better.
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| 02:53 | <vagrantc> well, whew. http://llama.freegeek.org/~vagrant/bzr/ltsp/split/vagrant-ldm-split
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| 02:53 | still doesn't build packages, but it's a start
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| 05:00 | <Nubae> hi there
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| 05:00 | Im following the document scott belnaeves (sp) wrote and get to the last step where it says to manually try mounting the device in question in this case a usb thumbdrive
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| 05:00 | I get /tmp/.sysadmin-ltspfs/tmp is not mounted, even though that directory exists
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| 05:01 | this is on edubuntu gutsy
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| 05:01 | any ideas?
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| 05:03 | <cliebow> Nubae, id think sbalneav will be in this morning...
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| 05:04 | <Nubae> ok... thanks... hes the only one can help me?
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| 06:12 | <sadmin> hi all
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| 06:14 | i am installing ltsp on ubuntu7.10 server
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| 06:14 | thinclinet wont get X
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| 06:14 | any idea
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| 06:53 | <sgtpepper> have anyone tried: http://ctflasher.sourceforge.net/
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| 06:53 | for making boot roms
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| 06:53 | <cliebow__> ive used the one Jm sells at disklessworkstations
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| 06:55 | <sgtpepper> the thing is not the price
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| 06:55 | is getting it shipped here
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| 06:55 | without paying horrid customs fees
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| 06:58 | <sgtpepper> cliebow__ it looks like a very promising project
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| 06:59 | <cliebow__> yes it certainly does...
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| 07:53 | <sonjag> Good morning! Does anyone know where the docs are that describe load balancing with edubuntu? I'm looking for ones written by Francis (don't know the last name) and it's not dhcp load balancing. Those are all the hints that I have! Thanks!
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| 08:09 | <ogra_cmpc> warren: great blogpost ! :)
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| 08:11 | <cliebow__> sonjag, this help???https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~francis-giraldeau/+roadmap
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| 08:47 | <Q-FUNK> !g
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| 08:47 | <ltspbot> Q-FUNK: Error: "g" is not a valid command.
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| 08:48 | <Q-FUNK> we need g for Gadi :)
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| 08:48 | Gadi: did you have a chance to try the -amd patch that i added to the bug?
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| 08:48 | <Gadi> Q-FUNK: not as of yet
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| 08:49 | Im sure it works, if you wrote it ;)
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| 08:49 | <Q-FUNK> :D
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| 08:49 | <Gadi> but, I am a big fan of DDC :)
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| 08:49 | <Q-FUNK> naa, the AMD guys contributed that themselves :)
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| 08:49 | I just don't have any Gutsy host to test this against.
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| 08:49 | <Gadi> the amd guys couldnt get it working properly
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| 08:49 | * Gadi shakes head | |
| 08:49 | <Gadi> heaven help us all
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| 08:50 | ah, ok
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| 08:50 | I will put it in the hopper
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| 08:50 | <Gadi> won't be today
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| 08:50 | Ive got a million things on today's plate
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| 08:50 | (and not nearly the necessary appetitie ;) )
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| 08:53 | <sonjag> cliebow, thanks... I'll look at that. I think it's the right Francis :)
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| 08:53 | Gadi, GO ELLIS EAGLES!
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| 08:54 | <Gadi> rofl
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| 09:10 | <cliebow__> ellsworth eagles???? how do you know that???
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| 09:12 | ctoids search --values
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| 09:12 | factoids search --values
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| 09:12 | ltspbot:factoids search --values
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| 09:12 | ltspbot learn g as Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 09:12 | <ltspbot> cliebow__: The operation succeeded.
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| 09:12 | <cliebow__> g!
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| 09:12 | !g
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| 09:12 | <ltspbot> cliebow__: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 09:13 | <Gadi> coooooool....
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| 09:14 | * Gadi hugs ltspbot | |
| 09:14 | <Gadi> and cliebow
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| 09:21 | <^Migs^> a thin client can use its own peripherals, such as a wacom tablet, right?
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| 09:21 | or any USB device?
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| 09:24 | * sutula suggests s/can/can possibly/ depending on the distro and skill of the installer | |
| 09:24 | <^Migs^> this would be on Edubuntu
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| 09:24 | with no-skill on the installer :)
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| 09:25 | no, I'm sure I'd have to figure a few things out
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| 09:25 | <sutula> ^Migs^: I don't have firsthand knowledge there
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| 09:25 | <Gadi> ^Migs^: does it work on the server out of the box?
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| 09:25 | if so, then you will probably be in luck with the wacom tablet, at least
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| 09:26 | <^Migs^> well, I'm sure if it doesn't, I can get it to work on the server. That means it should work on the thin client though?
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| 09:26 | <Gadi> that means you can get it to work on the client ;)
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| 09:26 | <^Migs^> perfect, thanks
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| 09:26 | <Gadi> through similar steps
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| 09:26 | just done within the chroot
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| 09:27 | <^Migs^> I was just afraid there might be some limitation on USB devices working on a thin client
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| 09:27 | <Gadi> ^Migs^: no limitation when it comes to input devices (as would beenumerated in Xorg) or devices with filesystems (for removable media)
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| 09:28 | things that may not work are like buring a DVD on a local USB dvd burner
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| 09:28 | <sutula> Gadi: When I got a Wacom working under Debian, some of the changes involved mods to Xorg.conf...will that be feasible for ^Migs^ in the client?
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| 09:28 | <Gadi> as that requires the application to have direct access to the dvd block device on the client
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| 09:29 | sutula: in ubuntu they are usually there by default, but if he needs to, he can always specify that the thin client use a custom Xorg.conf that he creates
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| 09:29 | <^Migs^> I can do anything to the clients within their capacity
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| 09:29 | I'm trying to design a setup for a bunch of school classrooms
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| 09:30 | <sutula> Gadi: What's the principle for getting stuff like USB keychains working in clients?
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| 09:30 | <Gadi> LOCALDEV=True in lts.conf and ltspfs installed on the server
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| 09:30 | <^Migs^> that's something else I was wondering. USB drives. I'd like those to work, too.
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| 09:31 | <Gadi> oh, and adding the users to the 'fues' group on the server
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| 09:31 | <Gadi> er, fuse
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| 09:31 | at least in Ubuntu
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| 09:31 | <^Migs^> what's the fuse group for?
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| 09:31 | <Gadi> ltspfs uses FUSE to do its magic
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| 09:31 | in Ubuntu only users within the fuse group can use FUSE
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| 09:31 | <sutula> ^Migs^: I saw an Ubuntu howto on client USB drives
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| 09:31 | <Gadi> as a security (and sometimes annoyingly so) feature
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| 09:31 | :)
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| 09:31 | <sutula> ^Migs^: It included debugging steps
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| 09:32 | <^Migs^> thanks. I'll look into it more.
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| 09:32 | <Gadi> ^Migs^: just do those 3 steps and it should "just work"
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| 09:32 | and in Edubuntu, you may only need to add the users to fuse
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| 09:32 | not sure
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| 09:33 | Edubuntu sets up a lot of LTSP stuff by default
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| 09:33 | <^Migs^> Something else I'm wondering. I saw this mentioned on this page here: http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT9205765137.html where they propose that if you want to set up Windows apps but still keep your thin clients, you can just use rdesktop to load up a Windows terminal server instance WITHIN the thin client.
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| 09:33 | Would that be a ridiculous and unrealistic load on the server?
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| 09:33 | <Gadi> doesnt load the server at all
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| 09:33 | <^Migs^> I put the specs together for a 2.4Ghz quad-core, 4GB RAM server
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| 09:33 | <Gadi> rdesktop just displays images
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| 09:33 | the muscle is on the Windows terminal server
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| 09:33 | <^Migs^> and I might have 50 thin client users at the most logged into that Win term server
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| 09:33 | okay
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| 09:33 | nice
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| 09:34 | <Gadi> its not like a virtual machine
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| 09:34 | the Linux server doesnt actually run Windows
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| 09:34 | just connects to it
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| 09:34 | <sutula> ^Migs^: I have something similar working at home, but with 2-3 users
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| 09:34 | <^Migs^> ok
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| 09:34 | <Gadi> analogous to the thin client connecting to the Linux server
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| 09:34 | * sutula hates having to run any Windows software | |
| 09:35 | <^Migs^> I don't mind Windows software, but not when it's completely unnecessary
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| 09:35 | * sutula hopes one day it is completely unnecessary | |
| 09:35 | <^Migs^> and I'd like to see the students in this school have at least an exposure to Linux. Just using it gives them a technical edge.
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| 09:36 | I don't agree with that.
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| 09:36 | * sutula shrugs | |
| 09:36 | <^Migs^> What I do hope is that one day people will stop thinking Windows IS necessary
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| 09:36 | not quite the same thing :)
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| 09:37 | <sutula> ^Migs^: Anyway, it can work (LTSP to W2K server), including sound
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| 09:37 | <Gadi> ^Migs^: recent rdesktop support "seemless Windows" with a small install on the WTS box. allows you to run individual apps and have them appear within a regular Linux window decoration (so users don't even realize)
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| 09:38 | <sutula> Gadi: Pointer?
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| 09:38 | <Gadi> www.rdesktop.org
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| 09:38 | :)
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| 09:38 | <sutula> thansk
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| 09:38 | <^Migs^> wow
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| 09:38 | that's exactly what I want
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| 09:39 | so I could just stick, e.g., an "Adobe Photoshop CS" icon on my Ubuntu desktop?
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| 09:39 | <Gadi> takes a little tinkering to get "single signon" so they dont get prompted for the Windows password
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| 09:39 | but the devil is always in the details, no?
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| 09:44 | <warren> Gadi, found an old evaluation board of AMD Geode NX. X doesn't work here either.
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| 09:44 | neither does PXE...
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| 09:44 | <Gadi> warren: WOOHOO!
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| 09:44 | :)
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| 09:45 | my world's on fire, how 'bout yours?
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| 09:45 | <warren> Gadi, OLPC has LX, but no PXE (and no ethernet)
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| 09:47 | Gadi, what is your website for selling thin client hardware?
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| 09:47 | Gadi, (I want to read your specs)
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| 09:47 | <Gadi> ah
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| 09:47 | I can point you to the amd-basedd specs
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| 09:47 | for the current unit
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| 09:47 | er, i should say
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| 09:47 | the specs for the current unit
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| 09:47 | that is amd based
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| 09:47 | yeah...
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| 09:48 | http://www.thesymbiont.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=80&Itemid=109
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| 09:48 | its the top one
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| 09:48 | the lil white guy
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| 09:48 | SYM1110
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| 09:50 | <Gadi> gotta run- mtg
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| 09:50 | bbiab
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| 09:51 | <warren> Gadi, is that GX or LX?
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| 09:52 | <Gadi> gx
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| 09:52 | we have an lx under development
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| 09:52 | for Q1 release
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| 09:59 | <Q-FUNK> does the Feisty CD have an OEM mode or a server-install mode that I can use to install just the basic and immediately dist-upgrade to Gutsy?
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| 10:03 | <warren> Gadi, it seems that NX is Athlon-based, entirely different. Also this being a really early evaluation board, it barely works at all. I need some actual working LX hardware here.
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| 10:06 | <Q-FUNK> NX is not even Geode technology
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| 10:06 | it indeed is Athlon.
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| 10:06 | I really don't know what got into their head to call this a Geode.
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| 10:07 | <warren> oh
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| 10:07 | thincan has onboard flash
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| 10:07 | what for?
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| 10:08 | <Q-FUNK> it can boot small embedded OS
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| 10:09 | <warren> that's enough flash to put your kernel and initrd
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| 10:09 | <Q-FUNK> it works well as an embedded controller, booting with LinuxBIOS with a small compressed JFFS2 image in NAND
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| 10:10 | <warren> oh
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| 10:10 | you need to access it through mtd?
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| 10:10 | (not a block device)
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| 10:10 | <Q-FUNK> and then some more: JFFS2 is compressed, so the basic 64MB NAND essentially gives you almost twice that, something close to 120MB.
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| 10:10 | yes, mtd
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| 10:28 | <Blinny> Woah. Ubuntu uses runlevel 2 by default. I'm just realizing this after banging my head into the wall trying to figure out why gdm wasn't starting in runlevel 5.
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| 10:31 | <warren> Can someone point me to a bzr repo of Ubuntu's mkinitramfss?
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| 10:36 | <Q-FUNK> Blinny: :D
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| 10:36 | <Blinny> Q-FUNK: I'm not a smart man.
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| 10:37 | but I'll get there. :P
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| 10:37 | <warren> Hmm...
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| 10:37 | <Q-FUNK> awwwww
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| 10:37 | <warren> we're never going to use udev in our initrd
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| 10:42 | <rjune> Blinny: it would have been a hell of a lot easier to figure that out if ubuntu had /etc/inittab, eh?
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| 10:43 | <sonjag> Hi all - cliebow sent me a link to Francis Giraldeau's roadmap. I followed LDM Load Balancing, which is what I think sbalneav was suggesting I try instead of dhcp load balancing, but came to a dead end and couldn't find instructions on how to implement. Anyone have any ideas on this?
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| 10:43 | <rjune> Gadi !
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| 10:43 | <Blinny> rjune: No doubt.
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| 10:43 | rjune: All I found inittab wise was a migration perl script.
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| 10:44 | <rjune> neat
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| 10:44 | <Blinny> Neat, and useless.
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| 10:45 | (for my limited purposes)
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| 10:52 | <moquist> sonjag: add francis' PPA to your sources.list and install his packages from there.
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| 10:52 | sonjag: do this in a test environment first!
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| 10:53 | <sonjag> moquist, thanks-- I would but I'm not sure where his PPA is or what packages he has. Can you point me to a website that has the info? Or can you tell me?
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| 10:56 | <moquist> sonjag: http://www.google.com/search?q=francis+ppa&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a
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| 10:56 | :)
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| 10:58 | <sonjag> moquist, awesome, but are there directions on how to use it once installed?
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| 10:58 | * moquist suspects not yet | |
| 10:58 | <moquist> but check /usr/share/doc/<package-name>/ after you install it
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| 11:01 | <sonjag> moquist, so, I don't really have a test environment anymore... I made Borg my home folder server. When are you testing this? I'm starting to get more worried if (a) there's no doc and (b) no one I know running it! (and (c) I'm finally not crashing daily!)
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| 11:01 | <moquist> Sounds to me like a good time to let your friends try it out first. :)
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| 11:03 | <sonjag> heh... kinda saw right through that, eh? are you running dhcp load balancing? That's my only other solution right now, unless I physically separate my network using switches. I hate doing that.
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| 12:10 | <scrapbunny> could someone tell me if xfce runs better on clients then gnome? I did a prerelese update and have xfce now and want to know which is better. I am using edubuntu 7.10 with ltsp 5
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| 12:13 | <vagrantc> scrapbunny: "runs better" ?
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| 12:14 | scrapbunny: it uses less memory on the server, and there's an option to get improved performance while moving windows around ...
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| 12:15 | but it also lacks some bells and whistles.
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| 12:15 | so depends on what you mean by "better"
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| 12:17 | <mhterres> hello
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| 12:17 | <scrapbunny> my main need is speed and that programs with open and close without freezing. not sure if gnome or xfce have an effect on that though
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| 12:20 | i am having issues with programs freezing when students try to exit and found the suggestion to run an update with pre-released updates
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| 12:21 | <mhterres> what programs ?
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| 12:21 | <scrapbunny> tux paint, tux math and firefox
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| 12:22 | i only have 11 clients running and plan on having 32 total
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| 12:23 | <mhterres> strange
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| 12:24 | is the thin client freezing ?
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| 12:24 | <Blinny> tuxpaint is a resource HOG. Firefox ain't much better
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| 12:24 | <mhterres> prefer firefox 1.5
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| 12:24 | instead of 2.0
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| 12:25 | <scrapbunny> the client will let me keep working, the program window just won't close
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| 12:25 | <mhterres> hmm
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| 12:25 | weird
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| 12:25 | <scrapbunny> glad it is not just m that thinks so :)
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| 12:26 | <mhterres> and how about your hardware ? how many memory do you have ?
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| 12:33 | <scrapbunny> the server is a dell power edge 1750 with 3 g memory
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| 12:34 | <mhterres> oh, great hw
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| 12:34 | certainly it is not the question
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| 12:36 | <mhterres> we have servers with 8Gb serving about 50/70 users
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| 12:36 | each
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| 12:37 | <warren> ogra_cmpc, when you first began trying nbd, did you run into problems where the OS tries to read from /dev/nbd[0-32] during bootup as it looks for RAID or LVM devices?
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| 12:37 | ogra_cmpc, did you have to add blacklisting?
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| 12:40 | <scrapbunny> of course right now I can't get anything to freeze so I will try out xfce for a while and see how things go :)
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| 12:51 | ogra_cmpc_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:52 | <mhterres> are you using KDE ?
| |
| 12:52 | we have LTSP implemented with Gnome without problems, and now we are trying XFCE, using Xubuntu in the server
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| 12:53 | in another implementation
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| 12:53 | and I know cases of LTSP with KDE working fine too
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| 12:58 | <dniel> vagrantc: he! hi!
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| 12:59 | vagrantc: tanto tiempo .... a long time :)
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| 12:59 | <scrapbunny> so far the only problem i have had with xfce it that the edges of the tux paint window look weird
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| 12:59 | <dniel> :)
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| 13:00 | dniel has quit IRC | |
| 13:01 | <scrapbunny> on gnome firefox seemed a lot slower and i had the freezing issue. i figure i will try xfce since i can't run most of the gnome eyecandy on thin client anyway
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| 13:01 | <mhterres> hmmm
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| 13:01 | ogra_cmpc has quit IRC | |
| 13:02 | <mhterres> we need to use 24 color depth in LTSP to Firefox works
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| 13:02 | <scrapbunny> i will say that it took me a while to figure out panels in xfce and i wish there was a way to set up a default panel for all users
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| 13:02 | <mhterres> When we set to 16 bits, we got problems with it
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| 13:02 | <scrapbunny> this is with firefox 1.5 or 2?
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| 13:02 | <mhterres> yes, in /etc/xdg you can do the default configs
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| 13:02 | nubae has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:02 | <mhterres> both versions
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| 13:05 | <scrapbunny> to get my dell gx 110's to work as clients i had to set them at 24bit so i think that is ok
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| 13:06 | <mhterres> hmmm
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| 13:08 | * vagrantc contemplates making 24 the default for debian | |
| 13:08 | <vagrantc> it looks better, and sounds like in some cases even works better
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| 13:09 | <scrapbunny> to make the default panel do i need to change etc/xdg/menu or something else?
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| 13:10 | gentgeen__ has quit IRC | |
| 13:10 | <mhterres> I don't remember now
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| 13:10 | look for /etc/xdg/xfce4
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| 13:11 | or something like that
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| 13:11 | <scrapbunny> found that and see panel
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| 13:11 | <mhterres> but users can change their panel
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| 13:11 | so if you don't want they change menu and other things take a look in kiosk mode for xfce
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| 13:12 | <scrapbunny> that would be fine i just don't want to set up 600 panels :)
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| 13:12 | <mhterres> hehehe
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| 13:14 | <scrapbunny> i'll go look at kiosk mode. I'm trying to decide how to best set up user accounts since i hav 600+ students in 26 classes
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| 13:15 | sonjag has quit IRC | |
| 13:15 | <mhterres> kioski mode in xfce is very simples, but you have just a few settings
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| 13:15 | Avatara has quit IRC | |
| 13:15 | <mhterres> anyway, is an option
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| 13:16 | sonjag has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:17 | <mhterres> http://www.xfce.org/documentation/4.2/manuals/xfce4-session
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| 13:17 | <scrapbunny> thanks
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| 13:19 | <mhterres> :-)
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| 13:20 | we are here to help
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| 13:25 | <nubae> hey, can anyone help me with local devices on ltsp 5 (edubuntu 7.10)
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| 13:26 | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev -- I have been through this thorougly and can get to the last step
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| 13:26 | the ssh ltspfsmounter issues a /tmp/.username-ltspfs/tmp directory not mounted
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| 13:27 | local devices however show up, as I can see them in the thin client under /tmp/.username-ltspfs/
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| 13:27 | just dont mount, and cant manually mount either
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| 13:31 | <vagrantc> nubae: are they in /media/username ?
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| 13:32 | <nubae> no
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| 13:32 | I can access the device from the server directly
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| 13:32 | but not on any thin client
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| 13:33 | on the server it pops up at /media/<name of device>
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| 13:33 | <vagrantc> oh
| |
| 13:33 | that's how it's supposed to work ...
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| 13:33 | or soemthing like that
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| 13:33 | thin clients shouldn't have access to the server's devices
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| 13:34 | local device support is to give the server access to the thin-client's devices
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| 13:34 | <nubae> hmmm... yes I know... what I mean is... thin clients have no local device showing up
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| 13:34 | ie... I plugin a thumbdrive into local device
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| 13:34 | it should show up
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| 13:34 | <vagrantc> running gnome ?
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| 13:34 | gbolte has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:34 | <nubae> yes
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| 13:35 | I followed this document, which is pretty thorough debugging: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev
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| 13:35 | <vagrantc> so just to be clear, on the server /tmp/.username-ltsp/ shows the devices, but nothing in /media/username ?
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| 13:35 | <nubae> yes
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| 13:35 | correct
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| 13:36 | bobby_C has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:36 | <gbolte> hey guys I am running ltsp5 on opensuse 10.3, and I have client computers with Nvidia geforce 6150 graphic cards...I have got the binary nvidia drivers installed in my nfs chroot for the clients...and I was wondering if there was anything special I have to do to get compiz fusion working
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| 13:37 | bobby_C has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:39 | <aep> compiz on terminals? wicked
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| 13:39 | <gbolte> aye
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| 13:39 | <aep> didnt even knows there are terminals capable of that
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| 13:39 | <vagrantc> nubae: hmmm... not sure what to try next
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| 13:39 | <nubae> :-(
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| 13:40 | <gbolte> lol
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| 13:40 | <nubae> perhaps sbalneaves can help?
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| 13:40 | <aep> gbolte: if possible try running compiz localy, to avoid the doublebuffer beeing synced over network
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| 13:41 | that might be slow
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| 13:41 | <gbolte> aep I dont know how I would go about running it local
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| 13:41 | tosky has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:41 | <aep> just put it in the nfs root
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| 13:41 | <mhterres> gbolte: Maybe if you install compiz inside the LTSP chroot, it could work locally
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| 13:42 | <gbolte> hmm but how would it get executed
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| 13:42 | <mhterres> aep: I think he is using nbd, instead of nfs
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| 13:42 | unless he has changed that
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| 13:42 | <aep> ow. err what's that? :D
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| 13:42 | <gbolte> er executed and then be able to change settings and stuff
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| 13:42 | bobby_C has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:42 | <aep> gbolte: init script. ssh. whatever suits you
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| 13:42 | <gbolte> no I am using NFS
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| 13:43 | <mhterres> oh yes, put inside the ltsp chroor will not work
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| 13:43 | <aep> maybe ssh is the easiest way
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| 13:43 | <gbolte> hmm
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| 13:44 | well I have got it to work some of the time...but its so hit and miss right now I cant figure out what is the problem...but when it dose work it works awesome
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| 13:44 | and thats with running it off the server
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| 13:44 | heh
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| 13:45 | bobby_C has quit IRC | |
| 13:45 | <gbolte> compiz always starts...just most of the time when it dose it is unusably slow like no acceleration is happening
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| 13:45 | <warren> hmm
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| 13:45 | <aep> sure. no Composite over network
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| 13:46 | <warren> vagrantc, Debian uses /etc/ltsp?
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| 13:46 | <gbolte> but when it starts and works correct it is lightning fast
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| 13:46 | <vagrantc> warren: for ?
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| 13:46 | <mhterres> gbolte: but are you running it locally ?
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| 13:46 | bobby_C has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:46 | <warren> vagrantc, for some reason Eric Harrison chose /etc/ltsp5/
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| 13:46 | <mhterres> cause LTSP does a X query to the server
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| 13:46 | <warren> vagrantc, /etc/ltsp/nbdswapd.conf for example
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| 13:46 | <mhterres> and this will be very slow
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| 13:46 | <ogra_cmpc_> warren: i dont think they do
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| 13:46 | <vagrantc> warren: ah, yes, /etc/ltsp for that stuff
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| 13:46 | <gbolte> no I was running it off the server
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| 13:46 | <warren> ogra_cmpc_, who is they?
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| 13:46 | <tosky> hi, I have a silly question (sorry for that :) but I wasn't able to understand it from the documentation: how can I use LTSP with "fat" clients (with a complete system running)?
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| 13:47 | <aep> tosky: easy. Xorg -query myltsserver
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| 13:47 | or Xnest
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| 13:47 | to run it in a window
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| 13:47 | <vagrantc> warren: there isn't much in there by default, but many of the scripts look for configuration files there
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| 13:47 | <ogra_cmpc_> ubuntu uses it for overriding setups i.e. dhcpd and syslog without fiddling with existing configs
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| 13:47 | <warren> vagrantc, which makes me wonder if Eric's choice of /etc/ltsp5 will complicate merging with you
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| 13:47 | <vagrantc> aep: i don't think that's what tosky was asking about
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| 13:48 | <aep> vagrantc: oh.
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| 13:48 | <vagrantc> warren: yes
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| 13:48 | <warren> ogra_cmpc_, uses what?
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| 13:48 | <ogra_cmpc_> so an admin can just delete our file in /etc/ltsp to switch over to his 2000 line custom dhcpd.conf in /etcd/dhcpd
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| 13:48 | warren: wht does he use /etc/ltsp5 ?
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| 13:48 | warren: /etc/ltsp
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| 13:48 | <warren> ogra_cmpc_, /etc/ltsp5 instead of /etc/ltsp
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| 13:49 | <ogra_cmpc_> yeah, i understand ...
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| 13:49 | <vagrantc> we've (so far) stuck with the client-side /etc/lts.conf
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| 13:49 | <ogra_cmpc_> but whats the reason for making it different
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| 13:49 | <vagrantc> it really tests the strength of distributed revision control? :)
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| 13:50 | * ogra_cmpc_ wonders as well how we shall commit to the www.ltsp.org branches, i thought we all agreed on using ltsp-drivers on LP | |
| 13:50 | <nubae> is LOCAL_STORAGE=Y still used in LTSP 5?
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| 13:50 | <gbolte> so has anyone here gotten compiz to work on ltsp reliably?
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| 13:50 | <ogra_cmpc_> which gives us ACL etc
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| 13:50 | <nubae> perhaps this could have something to do with why my local devs arent working?
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| 13:51 | gbolte... I've tried without success
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| 13:51 | on fglrx based graphics cards
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| 13:51 | <gbolte> nubae, so you were having to try XGL
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| 13:51 | Blinny has quit IRC | |
| 13:51 | <nubae> no
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| 13:51 | <gbolte> :/
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| 13:51 | hu
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| 13:51 | <nubae> new fglrx uses aiglx
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| 13:51 | <gbolte> oh
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| 13:51 | ok
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| 13:51 | <ogra_cmpc_> warren: its also wrong that we discuss the development on IRC only (referring to your blog) we have tons of blueprints in launchpad we created during teh developer conferences defining exactly what we implement
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| 13:52 | <gbolte> nubae, what did you have issues with
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| 13:52 | <tosky> My problem is: I installed the ltsp-server stuffs on a server, and I have 10 clients with a complete system on it; all the documentation I found made the assumption that the client must start through BOOP+DHCP
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| 13:52 | <nubae> everything runs great... 3d works
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| 13:52 | Guaraldo has quit IRC | |
| 13:52 | <nubae> but no compiz
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| 13:52 | <gbolte> hmm
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| 13:53 | yeah thats what I am getting, but sometimes compiz dose work
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| 13:53 | <vagrantc> tosky: complete system, as in hard drive?
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| 13:53 | <gbolte> :/
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| 13:53 | <nubae> says cant enable advanced graphics properties
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| 13:53 | I forget what option it is...
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| 13:53 | <gbolte> nubae, when dose it say that
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| 13:53 | <tosky> vagrantc: yes
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| 13:53 | <vagrantc> tosky: then it's not really LTSP
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| 13:53 | tosky: 99% of the point of LTSP is to not use a hard drive
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| 13:54 | fernando1 has quit IRC | |
| 13:54 | <nubae> well, for me its desktop effects I guess
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| 13:54 | or whatever the equivilant is on gutsy
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| 13:54 | <gbolte> oh...I have been using the command line
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| 13:54 | <nubae> well, thats an idea...
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| 13:54 | <tosky> vagrantc: ok, but ltsp has it advantages (make easier to access local devices, some configuration utilities, ...)
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| 13:54 | <gbolte> compiz --replace --sm-disable --ignore-desktop-hints ccp
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| 13:54 | <nubae> still, trying to run compiz-manager from terminal doesnt work either
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| 13:54 | <aep> tosky: as i sayd earlier you can just query the remote X
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| 13:54 | <nubae> ok, and that works?
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| 13:55 | <gbolte> nubae, sometimes yes most of the time no
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| 13:55 | haha
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| 13:55 | <vagrantc> tosky: the point of LTSP is to share the root filesystem between multiple computers to reduce maintenance of lots of systems.
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| 13:56 | tosky: if you want to use software developed for LTSP in other environments, go ahead. but it's designed to be used for an LTSP environment.
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| 13:56 | <gbolte> nubae, I mean it ALWAYS starts compiz...just most of the time its soooo slow that its unusable
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| 13:56 | <nubae> ok... you using Gutsy?=
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| 13:56 | Guaraldo has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:56 | <gbolte> nubae, opensuse 10.3
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| 13:56 | RichEd has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:57 | <nubae> right... and ltsp 5
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| 13:57 | ?
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| 13:57 | <gbolte> yup
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| 13:57 | <nubae> well, should be pretty much the same I guess
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| 13:57 | <gbolte> in theory
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| 13:57 | <nubae> maybe turn off X encryption
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| 13:58 | fernando1 has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:58 | <gbolte> I dont think I have that on
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| 13:58 | <nubae> think its on by default... at least was...
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| 13:59 | Guaraldo has left #ltsp | |
| 14:00 | <tosky> vagrantc: thank you for the explanations :)
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| 14:04 | <gbolte> http://wtogami.livejournal.com/20047.html
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| 14:04 | Warren booted Eric's Intel 950 video laptop as a thin client. compiz running on Warren's laptop worked on Eric's laptop with spinning cube and wobbly windows with seemingly no performance impact. compiz used less than 1% of CPU on Warren's laptop. Pretty cool.
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| 14:04 | I guess its been done
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| 14:04 | <^Migs^> tell me if this is a stupid idea
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| 14:04 | <gbolte> but I just cant get it figure it out
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| 14:04 | er
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| 14:04 | I just cant figure it out
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| 14:04 | <^Migs^> I want to run some 3d applications, like Celestia or Alice. If I ran it off an LTSP server, the thin clients would need a 3d card, at least to enhance their performance when they use it
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| 14:05 | what if I ran a Windows Terminal Server off the LTSP server off the thin clients. Would the thin clients still need a graphics card?
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| 14:05 | <gbolte> ^Migs^, I am trying to get compiz fusion to work on my clients
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| 14:05 | :P
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| 14:05 | <warren> ^Migs^, it would be entirely software rendered on the server (slow)
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| 14:05 | <^Migs^> what if the LTSP and Win Term Server each had a powerful 3d card, but the thin clients, didn't?
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| 14:06 | <warren> server's 3D card is irrelevant
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| 14:06 | <^Migs^> so it's all up to the thin clients then, even if it runs through two terminal servers to get there
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| 14:06 | <warren> Windows Terminal Server -> thin clients can't do 3D hardware accel
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| 14:06 | ogra has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:06 | <warren> It only works with remote X because of X's client/server architecture
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| 14:07 | <^Migs^> it's actually WTS->LTSP->thin clients
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| 14:07 | what about just LTSP->thin clients. Each thin client would need a 3d hardware accelerator, right?
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| 14:07 | and obviously a highspeed gigabit connection
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| 14:07 | <scrapbunny> woohoo got my default panel set up on all users! now i just have to try to bulk add my student users
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| 14:07 | <^Migs^> guess the "highspeed" was redundant
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| 14:08 | <ogra> ^Migs^, for GL ?
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| 14:08 | sorry just re-joined
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| 14:08 | <warren> ^Migs^, LTSP-> thin clients (3D hardware) is surprisingly low CPU usage on the server
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| 14:08 | <ogra> using GL stuff actually lowers the network traffic
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| 14:08 | <warren> ^Migs^, and surprisingly low bandwidth
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| 14:09 | ^Migs^, Eric was spinning the cube on his desktop constantly, and bandwidth through my ethernet was about 150KB/sec
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| 14:09 | <^Migs^> ideally, I don't want to have to buy 3d hardware for any of my thin clients. But I might have up to 60 users at once using something like Celestia (http://www.shatters.net/celestia)
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| 14:09 | <warren> ^Migs^, without 3D acceleration, your server will be bogged down by only one or two users using Celestia.
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| 14:09 | ^Migs^, entirely server-side software rendering
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| 14:10 | <^Migs^> okay
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| 14:10 | crap
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| 14:10 | <warren> and I don't know how heavy it would be on the server even with 3D accel
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| 14:10 | compiz made the load on the server VERY low because the server wasn't doing ANYTHING to spin the cube
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| 14:10 | most of that was on the client
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| 14:10 | * gbolte trys celestia | |
| 14:10 | <gbolte> :D
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| 14:10 | <warren> celestia might be heavy
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| 14:10 | <gbolte> <---on a kiosk right now
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| 14:12 | <nubae> I'm seeing on the edubuntu archive lists that the local device problem has been seen before by other users, but was never resolved
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| 14:12 | <gbolte> this aught to be fun
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| 14:12 | :D
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| 14:13 | ^Migs^, just out of curiosity what kinda hardware dose your server have
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| 14:13 | <ogra> nubae, can you provide a link to the archived mail you refer to ?
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| 14:15 | <^Migs^> haven't set it up yet, still trying to design a classroom thin client system. The specs on the LTSP server would be a 2.4GHz quad-core, 4GB RAM (upgradeable to 8GB)
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| 14:15 | <gbolte> ah
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| 14:15 | for how many users
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| 14:15 | <^Migs^> 450 max students in the entire school. I don't think more than 80 users would be connecting simultaneously, and even that's a very high estimate
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| 14:16 | <gbolte> wow
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| 14:16 | <^Migs^> worst case scenario, maybe 120 students at the same time
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| 14:16 | <gbolte> yeah I think the server we have here may be a bit overkill for 30 users
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| 14:16 | <nubae> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2007-September/001838.html
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| 14:16 | <^Migs^> worst case scenario for Celestia, maybe 40 users at the same time
| |
| 14:16 | okay, what IS fuse?
| |
| 14:17 | <ogra> ^Migs^, 4G is way to less for 80 users
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| 14:17 | <nubae> in any case, I've sent my findings to the list, its pretty much a copy of that problem...
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| 14:17 | <^Migs^> okay, so we need to bump it up to 8GB?
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| 14:17 | <ogra> count 128M for each connected user plus 256M for the server to run
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| 14:17 | <^Migs^> either that, or get a second server, which I'd be fine with too
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| 14:17 | <ogra> at leat if you use a decent desktop like gnome or KDE
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| 14:17 | <nubae> everything in the debug local devs works out, except last option
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| 14:17 | <^Migs^> that's what I was afraid of
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| 14:17 | <ogra> xfce might lower that by 10-20M
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| 14:17 | <^Migs^> I set up a simple thin client on a server with only 256MB RAM. It was dirt-slow.
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| 14:18 | <gbolte> heh our server here that we built for 30 users is a 8 core 3 GHz Xeon with 8GB ram and 1TB HDD
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| 14:18 | <ogra> ^Migs^, well, the desktop is what adds the weight here
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| 14:18 | <^Migs^> and does it ever run slow, gbolte
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| 14:18 | <ogra> (and the apps indeed ...)
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| 14:19 | <gbolte> ^Migs^, its not in production yet
| |
| 14:19 | :)
| |
| 14:19 | still working out bugs
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| 14:19 | <nubae> I run 8 gigs on a 64 bit system with 65 clients... even with most running crossover and ms office, there are no problems
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| 14:19 | <^Migs^> does anyone have a thin client system they're using?
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| 14:20 | and coudl share some specs
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| 14:20 | what sort of processor, nubae?
| |
| 14:20 | is that LTSP or Win Term?
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| 14:20 | <nubae> 32 bit to 64 bit really makes a difference
| |
| 14:20 | ltsp... its a xeon dual 3 ghz
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| 14:21 | there were issues on 32 bit when running crossover... now there are no problems...
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| 14:22 | <^Migs^> a Xeon 64-bit?
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| 14:22 | isn't AMD only 64-bit?
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| 14:22 | <gbolte> no
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| 14:22 | amd is 32 and 64
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| 14:23 | <^Migs^> er, never mind
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| 14:23 | mikkel has quit IRC | |
| 14:23 | <ogra> nubae, are you logged in via ldm while you try the command from the debug page ?
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| 14:23 | <nubae> yes
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| 14:24 | <ogra> and the user is in the fuse group ?
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| 14:24 | ogra_cmpc_ has quit IRC | |
| 14:24 | <nubae> I see all the devices under /tmp/.username-ltspfs/
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| 14:24 | yes, all the steps in the debug document have been verified
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| 14:24 | it all works out except the last step
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| 14:25 | <ogra> you mean you see /tmp/.username-ltspfs/ on the server ?
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| 14:25 | <nubae> yeah
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| 14:25 | <ogra> then its mounted
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| 14:25 | <nubae> well, doesnt show anything inside those files
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| 14:25 | <^Migs^> okay, I'm going to go back and start bumping up the specs on our LTSP server then
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| 14:25 | <ogra> do you see any content in there ?
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| 14:25 | <nubae> no
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| 14:26 | <ogra> (note that only the owner can actually look inside there (fuse restricts that)
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| 14:26 | i.e. not even root
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| 14:26 | make sure you are logged in as the user
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| 14:26 | <nubae> then I'm not 100% sure...
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| 14:26 | <ogra> (on the server side)
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| 14:26 | <nubae> however... I dont think so since all the files are empty
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| 14:26 | <ogra> also check the mount command
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| 14:27 | you should see two mounts per device ...
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| 14:27 | one in /tmp and another that bind mounts it over to /media
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| 14:27 | <nubae> ssh -S /var/run/ldm_socket_vt7_192.168.0.254 192.168.0.254 "/usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter /tmp add" is what I do
| |
| 14:27 | well... dont see the /media one
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| 14:27 | <vagrantc> oh yeah, i really ought to fix that issue
| |
| 14:27 | <ogra> vagrantc, which issue ?
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| 14:28 | <vagrantc> ogra: the mounting things twice issue
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| 14:28 | <ogra> vagrantc, well, either you have to have everything suid root or you bind mount ...
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| 14:28 | <vagrantc> ogra: we've been over this before but...
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| 14:29 | <ogra> if i find the time during hardy development that will be moot anyway
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| 14:29 | hal will care
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| 14:29 | <vagrantc> ogra: currently we do two things as root: we create /media/USERNAME and we bind mount /tmp/.usernale-ltspfs/ to /media/USERNAME
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| 14:29 | <ogra> wrong
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| 14:29 | err
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| 14:29 | sorry, right
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| 14:29 | <vagrantc> i propose to drop the bind-mounting bit
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| 14:29 | <nubae> the result of that is unable to mount: /tmp/.sysadmin-ltspfs/tmp/ directory not mounted.
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| 14:29 | <vagrantc> and mount directly into /media/USERNAME
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| 14:30 | <ogra> vagrantc, that means that ltspfs must be suid
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| 14:30 | instead of the ten lines big lbmount
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| 14:30 | <vagrantc> ogra: like i said, i'll work on fixing it
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| 14:30 | <ogra> vagrantc, why not fix it
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| 14:30 | instead of working around it again
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| 14:30 | <vagrantc> that's what i intend to do
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| 14:30 | <ogra> no
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| 14:31 | the fix is to let hal do the work so every desktop environment can use its preferred mount mechanism
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| 14:31 | just triggered by hal
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| 14:32 | <vagrantc> i like that too, but i see a way to improve upon what we have now, and there's something nice about the simplicity of it.
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| 14:32 | <ogra> i'll put my ltspfs-hal branch up if i'm home again
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| 14:32 | vagrantc, apart from the fact that it only works properly in gnome
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| 14:33 | <vagrantc> pfft.
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| 14:33 | <nubae> so... concerning my local dev thing... any ideas?
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| 14:34 | where does this happen: we create /media/USERNAME and we bind mount /tmp/.usernale-ltspfs/ to /media/USERNAME
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| 14:35 | <ogra> ltspfsmounter calls lbmount to do that
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| 14:36 | mount shows you the /tmp/.sysadmin-ltspfs/ dir ?
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| 14:36 | mounted as fuse fs ?
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| 14:37 | <vagrantc> pwd
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| 14:37 | <ogra> /
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| 14:38 | nubae, try: ssh -S /var/run/ldm_socket_vt7_192.168.0.254 192.168.0.254 "/usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter cleanup"
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| 14:38 | * vagrantc fails to read ltspfs code | |
| 14:38 | <ogra> and then try the mount again
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| 14:39 | nubae, also make sure that both sides of ltspfs have the same version ...
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| 14:40 | and note that gutsys version actually also requires gutsys ldm (added security bits that are not in feisty and will block the mount)
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| 14:40 | <vagrantc> ogra: lbmount is the setuid part, right ?
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| 14:41 | <ogra> right
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| 14:41 | <vagrantc> that's 300 some lines (including comments)
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| 14:41 | <nubae> ogra, I have modified the chroot, perhaps this updated ltspfs version?
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| 14:41 | well... it all worked under feisty, its only under gutsy that it doesnt work
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| 14:42 | <ogra> nubae, as long as the chroot was built under gutsy all should be fine
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| 14:42 | what did you modify ?
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| 14:43 | <nubae> well, fglrx
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| 14:43 | and have 2 chroots
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| 14:43 | but either way, usb devices doesnt work under either
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| 14:44 | I'm not at the server now, so I'll have to check tomorrow with the cleanup command, and see what happens
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| 14:44 | and check ltspfs versions
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| 14:45 | <ogra> well, we usually dont update versions after we released in ubuntu
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| 14:45 | only security fixes go in ... and there were no security isses with gutsys ltspfs yet
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| 14:46 | <nubae> hmm... well its certainly odd... devices show up in tmp, but they dont end up mounted in /media/username
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| 14:47 | <ogra> well, the question is if they are actually mounted
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| 14:47 | the mountpoint exisiting doesnt mean there is something mounted
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| 14:47 | <nubae> well, they show up
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| 14:47 | Gadi has left #ltsp | |
| 14:47 | <nubae> ok...
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| 14:47 | <ogra> we really need th exact output of /proc/mounts or the mount comand
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| 14:48 | <nubae> ok, from a altcntrol+f1?
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| 14:48 | <ogra> on the server, yes
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| 14:49 | <nubae> wait... I understood do this from a ldm login
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| 14:50 | <vagrantc> once you're logged in via ldm, you are on the server
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| 14:50 | <nubae> ok semantics... :-)
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| 14:50 | <ogra> i asked in the beginning if you see /tmp/.sysadmin-ltspfs/ on the server
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| 14:50 | :)
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| 14:50 | <nubae> I do yes
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| 14:50 | <ogra> right, issue the command there
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| 14:51 | do: cat /proc/mounts |grep sysadmin-ltspfs in a terminal
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| 14:51 | <nubae> ok, gotcha... then not from alt+cntrl+f1 (its not quite clear in the debuglocaldev doc)
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| 14:51 | <ogra> see if it returns a line
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| 14:51 | <^Migs^> what's the advantage of using fuse?
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| 14:51 | <ogra> ^Migs^, there is no advantage ... its the only way to mount stuff in userspace ...
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| 14:51 | <nubae> ok, thanks, will try tomorrow and send results
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| 14:51 | <vagrantc> ogra: i think, to skip the whole concept of mounting the stuff in /tmp ... all we have to do is switch the order of the ltspfs mount and calling lbmount ... then lbmount could handle only the creation of /media/USERNAME
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| 14:52 | <^Migs^> I don't understand what it even is
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| 14:52 | oh
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| 14:52 | so each logged-in user can have their own userspace.
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| 14:52 | <vagrantc> ogra: rather than creating /media/USERNAME and bind-mounting something from /tmp
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| 14:52 | <ogra> fuse == "File System in User Space"
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| 14:53 | vagrantc, hmm, thats an intresting tought
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| 14:53 | <vagrantc> ogra: i've been thinking it for ages :P
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| 14:53 | ogra: and meeting resistance all the way
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| 14:53 | <ogra> you just never let it over your lips :)
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| 14:53 | i'm not sure it will work though
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| 14:53 | <^Migs^> so when a user logs in, they will ONLY see their own userspace?
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| 14:53 | <vagrantc> ogra: well, i've just now sat down and tried to look at the code
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| 14:54 | <^Migs^> and can save and load files from there, etc.?
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| 14:54 | <ogra> i know there were more reasons to do it that way
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| 14:54 | <^Migs^> kind of like a Samba share, or Windows domain?
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| 14:54 | <vagrantc> ogra: i mean, i've looked before ... but it's not a simple interaction
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| 14:54 | <jammcq> hey kidz
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| 14:54 | <ogra> ^Migs^, no
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| 14:54 | <^Migs^> hai2u jammcq
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| 14:54 | <moquist> jammcq: yo
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| 14:54 | <vagrantc> ogra: well, i'd really like to know what those reasons are ...
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| 14:55 | <ogra> vagrantc, try your attemt, if it works we can use it ...
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| 14:55 | i just remember we did it that way to work around several probs ... one was the suid stuff ... the others i dont remember anymore
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| 14:56 | so you might run into them and i'll say "aah right, now i remember again ..." ;)
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| 14:56 | <vagrantc> the only issue i can think of, being my single brain, is that you might end up with a situation where you create /media/USERNAME and then the fuse mount fails ...
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| 14:57 | Q-FUNK has quit IRC | |
| 14:58 | <ogra> vagrantc, i tink there was a prob with the access rights but i'm not tsure anymore
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| 14:58 | * vagrantc attempts to wade through the lbmount code to strip out the bind mounting bits | |
| 14:59 | * vagrantc has only ever written "hello, world" in C | |
| 14:59 | <ogra> something like the user needs to have full RW access to the whole path or so to do the fuse mount ...
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| 14:59 | <vagrantc> ah, that's probably true
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| 15:00 | <ogra> i'm not sure though
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| 15:00 | try it
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| 15:00 | <vagrantc> this may be beyond my abilities
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| 15:00 | <ogra> probably scottie would remember ... but he's missing it seems
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| 15:01 | old ltspfs did it the same way ... but then linked the dir to ~/Desktop
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| 15:01 | <vagrantc> maybe mount --move would work as a simple alternative
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| 15:01 | <ogra> not sure fuse likes that ... try it out :)
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| 15:01 | might be its resistant to moving
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| 15:02 | <vagrantc> hmmm...
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| 15:02 | <ogra> i'm also not sure what ltspfs says ...
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| 15:03 | due to its nature to actually have the device unmounted all the time apart during rw actions you might confuse it by moving
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| 15:03 | i.e. if the move happens between two mount/umount processes on the client
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| 15:04 | <vagrantc> well, the code could be modified to only use tmpfs for the initial mount, and later use the relocated mount for all other operations
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| 15:05 | or ... make /media/USERNAME owned by USERNAME ...
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| 15:05 | <nubae> so local_storage=y is no longer used?
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| 15:05 | <vagrantc> then no more --bind or --move mounting
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| 15:05 | <nubae> saw that somewhere in the archives but guess its ltsp 4
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| 15:06 | <ogra> nubae, i think vagrantc added some compatibility code for that just recently
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| 15:06 | <nubae> so I could try that
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| 15:06 | ?
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| 15:06 | <ogra> but we usually use LOCALDEV=True nowadays
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| 15:06 | <nubae> its the same?
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| 15:06 | <vagrantc> nubae: it's not going to work any better
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| 15:07 | <ogra> nah
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| 15:07 | <nubae> :-) grasping at straws
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| 15:07 | * ogra has to go to some team event now ... | |
| 15:07 | <vagrantc> all it does is set LOCALDEV=$LOCAL_STORAGE
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| 15:07 | <ogra> right
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| 15:07 | <nubae> how about file permissions /media/USERNAME
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| 15:07 | is that owned by root?
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| 15:07 | <vagrantc> should be
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| 15:07 | * ogra waves ... | |
| 15:08 | <nubae> bye
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| 15:08 | and thankyou
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| 15:08 | * vagrantc waves to ogra | |
| 15:08 | <ogra> vagrantc, btw, i drove to portland on the weekend :)
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| 15:08 | s/to/through/
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| 15:08 | <nubae> hey, totally offtopic... but do u guys know if ubuntu has been ported to ARM
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| 15:08 | <ogra> just the water was on the other side :)
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| 15:09 | <vagrantc> ogra: the one on the east coast, i presume
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| 15:09 | <nubae> as in like the nokia 770
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| 15:09 | <ogra> nubae, nope, it hasnt and there are no plans to
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| 15:09 | we're working on a mobile edition for other arches though
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| 15:09 | <nubae> and its probably suicide to try with moblin?
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| 15:09 | <ogra> go to #ubuntu-mobile :)
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| 15:09 | <nubae> yeah mobile embedded
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| 15:10 | checkiung that out... any idea how far along development of that is?
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| 15:10 | <ogra> but the others are meeting up as well, so you might not have much luck today, we're going out now
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| 15:10 | <nubae> ok, talk to you later :-)
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| 15:10 | <ogra> 8.04 will have the first mobile edition released
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| 15:10 | bye
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| 20:03 | <davidj> Anyone seen Scotty?
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| 20:04 | <jammcq> hey
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| 20:04 | scotty is sitting on an airplane, somewhere between Minneapolis and Winnepeg
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| 20:04 | ace_suares has joined #ltsp | |
| 20:04 | <davidj> Ah, sorry, I thought his flight was tomorrow.
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| 20:04 | <jammcq> nope, I dropped him at the airport this afternoon
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| 20:05 | <davidj> He and I were talking about sql-ledger, and I couldn't remember the name of the fork (ledger-smb)
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| 20:05 | <jammcq> hmm
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| 20:05 | <davidj> I met the superintended of the Duval County school system on my flight.
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| 20:06 | oops, superintendent
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| 20:06 | <jammcq> hmm
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| 20:06 | <davidj> we talked about ltsp briefly (20,000 ft overview)
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| 20:06 | he seemed interested, gave me his card and asked me to contact him.
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| 20:06 | <davidj> I'll keep you posted.
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| 20:07 | <jammcq> cool
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| 20:07 | <davidj> Might even pay for all those labtahs you ate ;->
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| 20:09 | agh, how does anyone stand Windows? I've been installing it for a client since 3, and it's still clumping along.
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| 20:09 | And this is a fast machine.
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| 20:10 | (I do sort of see why so many consultants prefer it, though; if you're billing by the hour, it's a nice steady source of income).
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| 20:31 | <ace_suares> davidj: try winxp under qemu on a core 2 duo 6500 with 800Mhz RAM and 4 GB of it... still slowwwwwwww :-(
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| 20:33 | <davidj> ace_suares: This is running on raw metal, core 2 duo, and it's amazing just how slow it is.
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| 20:47 | <davidj> 'night
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| 22:26 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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| 22:34 | <mwright1> hello.. anyone home
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| 22:35 | <moquist> sbalneav: hey
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| 22:36 | <sbalneav> Hey moquist
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| 22:36 | <sbalneav> Just made it home.
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| 22:36 | <moquist> sbalneav: sorry to re-raise completed discussions...but why not just maintain a patch to sshfs that makes statfs work? Would that really be worse than an entirely separate shim filesystem?
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| 22:36 | Just checking.
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| 22:36 | <sbalneav> What are you going to do to patch sshfs?
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| 22:37 | <moquist> sbalneav: not sure. :)
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| 22:37 | <sbalneav> You'd have to patch BOTH sshfs AND sftp
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| 22:37 | <moquist> well, there's a reason not to do that. :)
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| 22:37 | <sbalneav> and you'd never, ever NEVER get a patch to sftp through :)
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| 22:37 | <moquist> Oh, right. I know it couldn't be pushed upstream.
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| 22:38 | <sbalneav> You'd never ever NEVER get a distro maintained patch to sftp either.
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| 22:39 | If a distro ever maintained distro specific patches to either ssh or sftp, and there was ever an ssh/sftp compromize on that distro, the bad press would kill the distro
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| 22:39 | <moquist> But now I'll be assuming a requirement of having an available control socket, and using that to run 'stat' on the server. Why not do that with a patch to sshfs itself, without touching sftp?
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| 22:39 | <sbalneav> "Who do these guys think they are custom patching such an important piece of software blah blah <distro> sucks, etc"
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| 22:39 | * moquist nods | |
| 22:40 | <sbalneav> Because what do you do if you DON'T have a control socket.
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| 22:40 | and, FUSE and ssh work on more than just linux, not all of them have the stat shell call, like windows.
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| 22:41 | so you'd have to maintain a bunch of different ways of doing it, etc etc.
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| 22:41 | Or, a nice, simple, well defined shim fileststem that's advertised to work only on Linux systems :)
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| 22:42 | <moquist> What about a nice, simple, well-defined patch to the statfs API in sshfs that only works on Linux systems?
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| 22:43 | * sbalneav shrugs. | |
| 22:43 | <sbalneav> Feel free.
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| 22:43 | <moquist> If we're getting ControlPath and ControlMaster into sshfs anyway, this could be contained within the statfs API (or nearly so).
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| 22:43 | <sbalneav> I'll let you argue that one out with the security team :)
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| 22:43 | <moquist> heh
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| 22:44 | <sbalneav> I know Miklos won't have it, as I asked before.
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| 22:44 | I had this idea already.
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| 22:44 | <moquist> sbalneav: I don't know which I think would be better, really. I'm just trying to get a really solid handle on what I'm doing and why.
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| 22:44 | <sbalneav> Even had a working patch.
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| 22:44 | * moquist nods | |
| 22:44 | <sbalneav> So, even if you could convince Ubuntu to take it,...
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| 22:45 | You'd have to convince EVERY OTHER distro to take it as well.
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| 22:45 | <moquist> was it a small, cohesive patch?
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| 22:45 | <sbalneav> Yup
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| 22:45 | 60 lines.
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| 22:45 | <moquist> hmm.
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| 22:45 | <sbalneav> Doing it this way, it's a standalone piece, that doesn't touch the other two.
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| 22:46 | <moquist> Ok, ok. I'm convinced.
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| 22:46 | :)
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| 22:46 | sbalneav: thanks for humoring me, though.
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| 22:46 | <sbalneav> Hey, don't take my word for it.
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| 22:46 | I'm a big fan of learning via skinned knees, I can dig up my patch, and you can float it by miklos again :)
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| 22:47 | but his take on the subject was: The "proper" way to do this is via a patch to sftp
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| 22:47 | so get the OpenSSH people to accept that. :)
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| 22:47 | <moquist> and their take was "there is no proper way to do this"
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| 22:47 | <sbalneav> Their take was: "this has no business in an FTP client"
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| 22:48 | <moquist> well, I'm futzing with the parameters to sshfsplus now.
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| 22:48 | my C is fuzzy and my brain is sleepy...we'll see how this goes.
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| 22:49 | <sbalneav> Ok, well, if you see McQ, tell him I made it home in one piece.
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| 22:49 | <moquist> will do
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| 22:49 | <sbalneav> I'm gonna head off to bed.
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| 22:49 | Cheers!
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| 22:49 | <moquist> sleepy tight
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| 22:56 | <moquist> jammcq: sbalneav made it home OK
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