IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 19 November 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:34 | <vagrantc> sheesh. it's a good thing i'm testing wheezy's LTSP ... it's rife with issues ... :(
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| 01:01 | ok, some false alarms
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| 04:00 | <kleewyck> Has anyone managed to make a HP5700 Thin client boot on edubuntu 12.xx? No matter what I do it says my CPU doesn't have PAE even though it seems to have the generic Kernel installed.
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| 04:00 | This worked fine under 11.xx
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| 17:03 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so i've been finding more bugs i'd like to fix for wheezy ... let's hope i'm not getting too ambitious
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| 17:03 | alkisg: with your bzr builds, were you building from trunk + the ltsp-debian-packaging branch?
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| 17:03 | <alkisg> hey vagrantc, sorry for not having the time on the weekend to work on fixing the dashisms
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| 17:03 | vagrantc: yes
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| 17:04 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i think i got it, at least it works for bash/dash ... other shells not so hopeful, but good enough for wheezy... i hope.
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| 17:04 | alkisg: so your bzr builds will likely fail, as i'm pulling patches from trunk
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| 17:05 | trying to resolve http://bugs.debian.org/690267 now ... the swap files don't get removed if encrypted swap is enabled.
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| 17:05 | <alkisg> vagrantc: the last version I published in the greek ppa was 5.4.3-1+r2393+p1146~precise1, and I'm hoping to upload a new one there in a couple of weeks
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| 17:06 | <vagrantc> i tried patching nbd-disconnect to remove the encrypted volume, which works, but then apparently the nbd module is removed before it can nbd-disconnect
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| 17:06 | nbd-disconnect seems prone to race conditions, no?
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| 17:07 | <alkisg> Err what? Why would you need the nbd module to stay around after unmounting swap, when using nfs root?
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| 17:07 | <vagrantc> NBD swap
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| 17:07 | <alkisg> Right, so, unencrypt, swapoff, nbd-client -d, and module gets removed
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| 17:08 | <vagrantc> alkisg: except nbd-client -d fails
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| 17:08 | alkisg: because nbd module is already removed for some reason
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| 17:09 | <alkisg> (07:06:52 μμ) vagrantc: nbd-disconnect seems prone to race conditions, no? ==> yup, by design :P
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| 17:09 | <vagrantc> works fine if it's not encrypted... which confuses me.
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| 17:09 | since i put another bit of code in the same case statement that nbd-disconnect is in to handle it.
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| 17:10 | er, the same case statement that it removes swap on /dev/nbd*
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| 17:10 | * vagrantc pastes a patch | |
| 17:10 | <alkisg> vagrantc: generally, swap files should be handled by /etc/init.d/nbd-client, not by nbd-disconnect
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| 17:11 | * alkisg will have to postpone looking into details though... busy for a few days more :-/ | |
| 17:11 | <vagrantc> *sigh*
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| 17:11 | i'll just have to upload without it
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| 17:12 | <alkisg> asdrtgheryttrg
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| 17:12 | (kid playing with keyboard :()
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| 17:12 | * vagrantc looks for a cat | |
| 17:12 | <vagrantc> ah, close enough
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| 17:59 | <vagrantc> ugh.
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| 17:59 | PROCESS_LTS_CONF is borked.
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| 18:05 | we have too many codepaths to test everything manually...
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| 18:10 | PROCESS_LTS_CONF actually causes no environment variiables to be set...
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| 18:25 | * vagrantc is perplexed | |
| 18:44 | <vagrantc> ok, it has to do with lots of script snippets doing: test -z "$FOO" || return
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| 18:44 | which returns the value of the last command, which triggers and error, and when "set -e" is enabled, it bails on the entire script
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| 18:45 | this is a lot of code....
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| 18:47 | <vagrantc> was always nervous about that behavior
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| 19:01 | looks like ltsp_config.d only has 20fatclients...
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| 19:33 | <blakes> My LTSP server has two NICs, one pointing to my thin clients, the other pointing to a broader private net where windoze boxes, printers, and wireless devices sit. The server is effectively acting as a firewall for the thin client network. I need to be able to plant other kinds of devices on the thin client private net and let them pass through. Any ideas on how to make that happen?
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| 19:34 | <vagrantc> you need to set up a firewall with NAT ...
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| 19:35 | <blakes> using what, iptables?
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| 19:35 | that's the default, right?
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| 19:35 | <vagrantc> in a two-NIC LTSP server setup, clients don't necessarily have direct network access
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| 19:35 | iptables, or a frontend
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| 19:36 | i've had good luck with arno-iptables-firewall
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| 19:36 | or ferm
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| 19:36 | although arno-iptables-firewall actually walks you through some of the steps, ferm allows you to create your own rules
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| 19:37 | there's also an example script in ltsp sources ... dunno if it's installed in any of the packages
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| 19:37 | <blakes> I remember reading somewhere that the nic setup on a two nic LTSP setup that iptables is somewhere in the picture.
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| 19:38 | am I going to clobber that?
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| 19:38 | <vagrantc> by default, no, but if you're using fatclients or localapps, yes.
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| 19:38 | you'll also want to make sure not to firewall off any of the ports LTSP uses
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| 19:38 | <blakes> am using local-apps
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| 19:38 | <vagrantc> if the localapps have network access, then you shouldn't need to do anything for other devices.
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| 19:39 | or rather, you've already done it :)
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| 19:39 | unless you've used a really restrictive firewall
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| 19:42 | <blakes> Some of this config I have inherited.... so I am not really clear on it. I do know that Firefox and Chrome are running as local-apps. But I don't recall specifically making the iptables do NAT.
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| 19:43 | The two nets are both private with a smoothwall protecting the whole kahoona. Can't I just say screw it and cable the two nets together?
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| 19:49 | <vagrantc> blakes: is the smoothwall connected to the network the LTSP clients are on?
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| 19:50 | <blakes> No. 192.168.10.0/24 is smoothwall net and one nic on the LTSP server, the thin clients are on 192.168.0.0/24
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| 19:53 | I think I am already answering my question here.... there would be two dhcp servers on the combined net that could be bad! plus what happens if a thin client gets an address on the .10 net... it would be blocked by the ltsp server. So it sounds more than what simple netmasking could take care of.
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| 19:55 | <vagrantc> in that case, you'd need a dhcp server on the LTSP server configured to only listen on your LTSP network.
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| 19:55 | <vagrantc> not at all uncommon.
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| 19:55 | <blakes> It took me a long time to get to know BSD's IPFW firewall... and I just wanted to be lazy and not learn another firewall syntax.
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| 19:56 | <vagrantc> blakes: so you must have some sort of NAT on your firewall, unless you're using an HTTP proxy or something.
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| 19:56 | er, some sort of NAT on your LTSP server
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| 19:56 | <knipwim> vagrantc: are you busy committing?
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| 19:56 | <vagrantc> otherwise your localapps wouldn't be able to get network access.
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| 19:57 | knipwim: i hope i'm done for the day...
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| 19:57 | knipwim: i can always rebase as long as we're not conflicting
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| 19:57 | <knipwim> otherwise i'm going to commit the gentoo nbd stuff
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| 19:57 | <blakes> Just NAT on the smoothwall. no proxy. I tried to do an iptables -l -v but it wasn't very informative. I am not sure exactly how the ltsp server is handling traffic.
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| 19:58 | <vagrantc> blakes: and you're sure the smoothwall isn't on both networks?
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| 19:59 | <blakes> There are only three classes on the iptables, and I couldn't tell which NIC they were listening to.
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| 19:59 | yes on the smoothwall
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| 19:59 | <vagrantc> blakes: try: iptables -L -n -t nat
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| 20:00 | blakes: so... you plug other things in and they don't work?
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| 20:00 | blakes: or are you just trying to understand how it works?
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| 20:00 | <blakes> Another chain! POSTROUTING:MASQUERADE all -- 192.168.0.0/24 0.0.0.0/0
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| 20:01 | <vagrantc> so your LTSP server has NAT configured...
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| 20:03 | <blakes> A little of both... but mostly I need to install Voip phones in every classroom. The trouble is that in some rooms they have the ltsp net only wired and no other capacity to cross-connect. the phones have to live on the .10 network OR get passed through the firewall on the LTSP net.
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| 20:07 | <blakes> Ok.. so if I understand the masqurade class, it should be NATting any ip address on the private side to the public side .... so maybe I have a dns issue? not a nat issue
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| 20:08 | <vagrantc> could be.
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| 20:09 | you might need to configure the dhcp server running on the ltsp server to give out the appropriate DNS entries, or set up a dns proxy on the LTSP server.
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| 20:10 | <blakes> I guess I have some more learning to do on this... stay tuned, dear reader. Will Blake surrender to the evil iptables ore reconfigure dhcp? ttyl and thanks!!!!
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| 20:11 | <knipwim> vagrantc: you know why not all files in tftpdir/ltsp/$name are set to chmod +r ?
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| 20:13 | <vagrantc> knipwim: my guess is that they should be, but probably aren't usually a problem?
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| 20:15 | <knipwim> dracut outputs it's generated initramfs with chmod 600
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| 20:16 | i was wondering if that was unusual
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| 20:17 | <kev_j> When I download something in firefox using localapps, and try to open it from the download window, it asks what application I want to use because it is obviously trying to use applications that are within the chroot enviro.. Is there a way to make it use the server path? (Sorry if I didn't word that very well)
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| 20:36 | <knipwim> vagrantc: done
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| 20:40 | <blakes> Kev_j: I have run into this problem too. I haven't found a fix for it yet short of instructing users how to link apps to mimetypes. In my case, I don't think it is the chroot environment issue you mentioned, but bookmarks and other things get saved into the users profile in /home/USERNAME/.mozilla.....
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| 20:40 | <vagrantc> kev_j: no, you have to install all the apps locally
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| 20:41 | kev_j: at which point, you might want to just use LTSP_FATCLIENT
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| 20:41 | well, you have to install all the apps your users might want to use ...
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| 20:41 | at which point, it might be easier to go fatclient.
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| 20:42 | knipwim: are you still planning on defaulting to NFS, or are you pushing NBD all the way now? :)
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| 20:43 | i'm still waffling for debian, wheezy will still default to NFS, but with ltsp-pnp i'm considering switching it.
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| 20:43 | <blakes> I have firefox installed in the chroot, but I have the same trouble as Kev_j
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| 20:44 | <kev_j> that is the same issue, I have firefox installed, but not the program that would open it
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| 20:44 | open the downloaded file
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| 20:44 | in the chroot...
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| 20:45 | <blakes> Well... I have acrobat and flash-plugin installed in the chroot. Acrobat is not associated with mimetype, but flash is.
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| 20:46 | <knipwim> kev_j, blakes i think ltsp-remote-apps is the way for that
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| 20:47 | hmm, or not
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| 20:47 | <blakes> no such thing on my 12.04 install. Is this something new... an add in, a replacement?
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| 20:49 | I just need a utility to add the correct path/application to whatever freaking, hide-the-ball database mozilla keeps its mimetypes.... then recurse homes and walk away smiling.
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| 20:50 | <kev_j> blakes: so if they download a pdf and try to open from the firefox download window it opens the localapps acrobat?
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| 20:51 | <blakes> no... acrobat is not run as a local app... only firefox
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| 20:51 | <kev_j> sorry, I don't completely understand (plus I don't know how to use mimetypes, so I am a little lost there, but I am looking at it right now)
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| 20:52 | <vagrantc> ltsp-remote-apps could be used to start the application on the server, although you'll have a difficult time autogenerating the mime-types on the fly.
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| 20:53 | ltsp-remoteapps
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| 20:53 | <blakes> it looks like the mimetypes... "helper applications" are kept in /home/[user]/.mozilla/firefox/[profile]/mimeTypes.rdf
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| 20:54 | <vagrantc> it's basically like the correlary to localapps
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| 20:54 | <knipwim> vagrantc: but do you know how to configure it?
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| 20:54 | <blakes> I am not smart enough to write a script to re-write the entry for externalApplication:application/pdf, etc.
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| 20:54 | <vagrantc> i don't remember if it's automatically set up, or you have to enable the variable...
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| 20:55 | <knipwim> something with REMOTE_APPS_MIME_PACKAGES ?
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| 20:56 | vagrantc: but to your question earlier, haven't tought about nfs vs nbd really
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| 20:57 | <vagrantc> knipwim: at least on debian/ubuntu, it's now much easier to switch back and forth between them.
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| 20:57 | <knipwim> that was what i was going for also
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| 20:57 | with another initramfs builder
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| 20:57 | <blakes> ltsp-remoteapps only exists in the chroot.... so If I read correctly, the "helper application" should be something like ltsp-remoteapps /usr/bin/acroread?
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| 20:57 | ???
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| 20:58 | <knipwim> maybe :)
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| 20:58 | <vagrantc> yup
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| 20:58 | i'm looking into it... it's not one of our better documented featuress
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| 20:58 | <knipwim> blakes: if it works, could you let it know?
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| 20:59 | <blakes> And any suggestions on deploying that to 300 users? This sounds hinkey.
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| 20:59 | <knipwim> vagrantc: if i remember, you could set it up based on mime types
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| 20:59 | so that pdf would automatically open acroread on the server
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| 21:00 | <vagrantc> i can't find the code to enable it..
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| 21:00 | <knipwim> mgariepy_: you might know? ^^^
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| 21:00 | * vagrantc wonders if it got lost in one of the code reshuffles | |
| 21:01 | <vagrantc> ah, REMOTE_APPS=true in lts.conf
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| 21:01 | <kev_j> should I be able to open it like blakes described from the xterm?
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| 21:01 | vagrantc: is it disabled by default?
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| 21:02 | <blakes> From another angle... the default pdf reader is NOT acroread. it is envince(sp?). Wonder if this a stem of the problem?
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| 21:02 | <vagrantc> disabled by default, if i recall correctly.
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| 21:02 | <blakes> code reshuffle problem, I mean.
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| 21:02 | <knipwim> vagrantc: and a mention in /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/X01-remoteapps
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| 21:04 | <vagrantc> yup, REMOTE_APPS=true, and then a localapp should be able to ltsp-remoteapps FOO
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| 21:05 | i.e. ltsp-remoteapps acroread
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| 21:05 | <blakes> my lts.conf has LOCAL_APPS=True, REMOTE_APPS=True, LOCAL_APPS_MENU = True, LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS = evince,firefox,chromium-browser
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| 21:05 | <vagrantc> some applications may not play well with localapps or remoteapps
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| 21:06 | ok, back to the prep work to upload a new version of LTSP to debian...
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| 21:07 | <knipwim> good luck :)
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| 21:07 | <kev_j> well I have to reload then since I am testing all this on my computer... can you guys let me know if I miss anything important?
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| 21:36 | <kev_j> so how would I use ltsp-remoteapps to open the file?
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| 21:37 | <vagrantc> which file?
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| 21:37 | and which application?
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| 21:38 | ltsp-remoteapps "COMMAND ARGUMENTS"
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| 21:38 | <kev_j> the downloaded pdf file in firefox
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| 21:38 | <vagrantc> or is it: ltsp-remoteapps COMMAND ARGUMENTS ...
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| 21:39 | kev_j: the same way you'd specify some other arbitrary program in the dialog...
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| 21:39 | <kev_j> so ltsp-remoteapps acroread opens acroread, but I don't know how to make it open the downloaded file
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| 21:39 | <vagrantc> ltsp-remoteapps acroread FILE
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| 21:39 | probably
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| 21:39 | or
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| 21:39 | ltsp-remoteapps "acroread FILE"
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| 21:41 | <kev_j> but I'm not typing when I try to open the file in firefox... does it have to do with the mimetypes thing?
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| 21:42 | <vagrantc> you could write a simple two-line wrapper script:
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| 21:42 | #!/bin/sh
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| 21:42 | exec ltsp-remoteapps acroread $@
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| 21:43 | <kev_j> ah, I tried that, but I didn't know the $@, I had tried $1
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| 21:43 | <vagrantc> don't really know how to configure mime types, it seems darned near every program reinvents that wheel.
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| 21:43 | $1 should work as long as there's only one argument
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| 21:43 | $@ is all the arguments
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| 21:43 | you might want to quote it... "$@"
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| 21:44 | alternately, you might be able to define .desktop files, and maybe, if you're lucky, some applications will see that... but that might just be for menus, not mimetypes.
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| 21:44 | <kev_j> damn, so it opens it but still doesn't open the file with it
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| 21:44 | <vagrantc> like i said earlier, it's probably just easier to run LTSP_FATCLIENT=true
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| 21:45 | it's a game of whack-a-mole you're embarking on.
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| 21:45 | kev_j: ok, try this one:
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| 21:45 | <kev_j> yeah... it's half me being stubborn and half me being curious
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| 21:45 | <vagrantc> #!/bin/sh
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| 21:45 | exec ltsp-remoteapps "acroread $@"
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| 21:46 | if you really just need one or two apps, it might be fine. if you need lots... it'll be a lot of work.
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| 21:46 | <kev_j> same result, that's what I tried accidentally when you first said I might want to quote it
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| 21:46 | it's just one or two
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| 21:46 | so far anyway
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| 21:47 | <vagrantc> hmmm...
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| 21:47 | exec ltsp-remoteapps "acroread \"$@\""
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| 21:47 | maybe?
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| 21:48 | <kev_j> would it be exec ltsp-remoteapps "acroread \"$@\"" or exec ltsp-remoteapps "acroread \'$@\'"
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| 21:50 | <kev_j> neither worked..
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| 21:50 | <vagrantc> it's the argument processing from shell game...
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| 21:51 | <kev_j> yeah
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| 21:51 | <vagrantc> try with: exec ltsp-remoteapps "acroread $@"
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| 21:51 | doh.
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| 21:52 | <kev_j> heh
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| 21:52 | <vagrantc> kev_j: is the file in /tmp
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| 21:52 | ?
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| 21:52 | or something other than the user's homedir?
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| 21:52 | <kev_j> home
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| 21:52 | <vagrantc> hm.
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| 21:52 | i was going to say try with: exec ltsp-remoteapps "acroread $@"
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| 21:53 | and then run "pgrep -l -f acroread" on the server
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| 21:53 | does it have any meaningful arguments?
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| 21:54 | <kev_j> hrm, that's kinda wierd, it lists the file in the process....
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| 21:55 | <vagrantc> and the path to the file... ?
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| 21:56 | <kev_j> and then I open the file manually from within acroread and the process doesn't change
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| 21:56 | /home/user/Downloads
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| 21:56 | <vagrantc> could you cut-and-paste the results of the pgrep ?
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| 21:59 | <kev_j> http://pastebin.com/6ChEZ3cW
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| 22:00 | <vagrantc> and the file is actually present on the server?
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| 22:00 | <kev_j> the first is after trying to open it from firefox (localapps) and the second is going to open in acroread and selecting the file (which shows up after that)
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| 22:00 | yes
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| 22:00 | <vagrantc> if you manually run it from the commandline, it works?
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| 22:00 | are there multiple sessions logged in as "user" ?
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| 22:01 | <kev_j> yes it works if I type it, and no, no other sessions for user
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| 22:01 | <vagrantc> kev_j: do you have a different pdf reader you could try it with?
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| 22:01 | evince, epdfview ...
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| 22:01 | <kev_j> yeah, xpdf
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| 22:02 | <vagrantc> classic :)
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| 22:02 | kev_j: see if that works as expected
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| 22:03 | <kev_j> not at all actually...
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| 22:03 | typing it works, but trying to run it from firefox does nothing
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| 22:04 | <vagrantc> kev_j: would it be so bad to install acroread and whatever else locally?
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| 22:04 | so that it could run them as localapps as well?
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| 22:05 | <kev_j> no, I was trying to but for some reason acroread isn't in my listed repositorys... but once I started messing with it it was the whole stubborn and curious thing
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| 22:08 | thanks for the help, I will just get that working
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| 22:11 | <vagrantc> good luck
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| 22:12 | i probably need to review ltsp-docs and get an update of that out
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| 22:14 | <kev_j> well hell, I don't know what the *#$@% is wrong with acroread or firefox, but it doesn't open the file either way
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| 22:16 | <kev_j> mebbe it's that it doesn't list pdf as a content type...
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| 23:06 | * vagrantc uploads ltsp 5.4.2-3 to debian ... | |
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