IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Channel log from 4 December 2007 (all times are UTC)

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01:21	<MasterOne> hi guys, anybody already around?
01:22	It's a nice rainy morning here in Austria, which is pretty good to get some work done :)
01:23	Where would I file the bug report for this weird flash9-thinclient problem?
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01:58	<MasterOne> Where would I file the bug report for this weird flash9-thinclient problem?
02:29	<cyberorg> nowhere, install libflashsupport
02:38	<MasterOne> that problem is independent of libflashsupport
02:38	means I already tried it with different versions of libflashsupport, video+audio just fine on youtube, but the same instant Firefox crashes on tv.com
02:39	I am already filing the bugpreport with all the details I have, that problem is 100% reproduceable
02:50	done, please have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/173845
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03:17	<MasterOne> ogra: ping
03:19	<jgbillings> Does "cannot run in framebuffer mode. Please specify busIDs for all framebuffer devices" sound familiar to anyone
03:20	<MasterOne> no
03:20	is this the message of a video player?
03:24	<jgbillings> woa, i commented out dri and now have a grey screen of death
03:25	when my thin client try's to start x
03:25	at least the mouse can move the x cursor
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03:54	<jgbillings> well i can ssh into my thin client thats an improvment
03:55	don't think the kids will be satisfied with that though, i could teach them to play netris maybe
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03:56	<jgbillings> just need to figure out the correct x settings for a s3 virge/dx or /gx
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04:38	<alekibango> jgbillings: have you tried vesa driver?
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05:29	<snazm> Hey folks
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05:57	<sm7xab> Hi! I've been trying to get a Logitech Comfort Cordless Keyboard and mouse to work with LTSP for the last two days to no avail. I've tried using a KNOWN WORKING xorg config file but all that will happen is that the mouse goes up & down. What is going on here?
05:57	Oh, It's connected to a USB port.
05:58	According to the working config gile, it is connected to /dev/usb/mice, uses the ImPS/2 protocol with Z-AxisMapping 4 5.
05:59	<ogra> thats likely wrong
05:59	all input devices should link to /dev/input/mice
05:59	<sm7xab> Sorry. My fault! Wrote the incorrect path in my anger. It is /dev/input/mice of course...
05:59	<ogra> (at least in ltsp5 i'm sure they do (with the exception of wacom tablets))
06:00	<sm7xab> I got the working config from Ubuntu (easy to start without installing).
06:00	* ogra just types on a no-name wireless media keyboard ... also usb with a little trackball ... works flawless here
06:00	<sm7xab> Perhaps, I should also mention that I'm using LTSP-4.2.
06:00	<ogra> ah, well
06:00	4.2 used a very old X
06:01	its not develped since about 2.5 years anymore
06:02	<sm7xab> Wow! Wasn't aware that it was so old. Start to sound like I'll have to try to get LTSP 5 running. Don't quite want to do that on a Gentoo system right now..
06:02	<ogra> well, i guess dberkholz would be happy if someone would pick up his work and go on implementing 5 in gentoo :)
06:03	he ran out of time at some point, but started something a year ago or so
06:03	<sm7xab> Hahaha! I got that. I'd be happy to help out on that but currently have some problems getting time over for that :-( Haven't even had time to get my machines running correctly...
06:04	<MasterOne> ogra
06:05	https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/173845
06:05	that's all the info I could gather
06:05	if you need anything else, just tell
06:06	as mentioned, you can easily check that issue for yourself
06:06	<ogra> yep, thanks for that, i noticed
06:06	<MasterOne> maybe it is just a minor bug, that easily can be fixed
06:08	<ogra> i doubt that
06:09	it smells really like a flash bug, does FF crash on any other occasions ?
06:09	<MasterOne> no
06:09	<ogra> right, thats what i suspected
06:10	i assume you also never see any pcm related errors in .xsession-errors apart from rowsing flash sites
06:10	(not to talk about the /proc/asound/cards error)
06:12	<MasterOne> there are no pcm errors in .xsession-errors at all, and that /proc/asound/cards appears only once after a new login, which seems to unrelated to Firefox/flash (appears after login, before firefox gets started, also it appears nevertheless logging in on the server or the thin client)
06:14	just see the two different errors, that occur when logged on directly on the server versus thin client
06:16	I wouldn't be that persistent, if I hadn't seen it working properly on the server, a desktop install, and on a 32bit thin client connected to a 64bit server (running firefox 64bit + nspluginwrapper + flash-nonfree 32bit without sound, but also without crashes)
06:17	it's just one of these odd things, that nobody can explain, and that is just too specific for exactly one scenario
06:19	on the other hand, pretty poor to explain to someone using such a setup, that everything is working just fine, but he can not visit that one quite popular site, because it lets firefox crash, although it works without problem on every other setup...
06:19	<ogra> well, as i said, the majority of people uses flash with libflashsupport on 32bit without problems ...
06:19	so its a bit strange
06:20	<snazm> Most weird
06:20	Of course it can't be a FF problem then
06:20	<MasterOne> ogra, I tried, and I can confirm that installing libflashsupport does not change anything, firefox crashes on that site with libflashsupport installed exactly the same way
06:20	<ogra> with the pcm errors ?
06:21	<MasterOne> the error "firefox-bin: pcm_params.c:2351: sndrv_pcm_hw_params: Assertion `err >= 0' failed" on the thin client stays the same
06:22	but I explained all that in my detailed bugreport
06:22	it definitely has nothing to do if libflashsupport is installed or not
06:24	it's easy to confirm, because just flash without libflashsupport is and should be working on all sites just fine, but without audio, once you install libflashsupport, audio returns, but that's totally independent of firefox crashing on that particular site
06:24	<ogra> well, libflshsupport is the thing providing access to pcm for flash
06:25	<MasterOne> ogra, if that would have been the problem, firefox would have crashed on youtube or any other site with flash with audio as well
06:26	<snazm> It might be worth extracting the relevant Flash files from the site and accessing them individually in FF to see which it is
06:26	If any
06:27	<MasterOne> can none of you guys try that for yourself on a thin client accessing that flashplayer on tv.com?
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06:28	<MasterOne> all it needs is flash-nonfree installed on the server, then visit that page from a thin client, and you can see for yourself
06:29	well, the server has to be 32bit, because as mentioned, that problem does not occure, of the server is 64bit with firefox 64bit + nspluginwrapper + flash-nonefree 32bit
06:33	<ogra> http://www.pulseaudio.org/ticket/43 is the original bug btw
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06:36	<MasterOne> not really, because that has nothing to do with firefox crashing
06:36	and "ALSA lib pcm_hw.c:1357:(_snd_pcm_hw_open) Invalid value for card" is the error output, I got when running firefox logged in on the server directly, which means it was running properly without crashing firefix
06:37	s/firefix/firefox ;)
06:37	that error has nothing to do with the situation on the thin client
06:37	<ogra> it does if PULSE_SERVER is still set, check that please
06:38	"ALSA lib pcm_hw.c:1357:(_snd_pcm_hw_open) Invalid value for card" is clearly the pulse bug
06:38	s/pulse/pulse vs. flash/
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06:38	<mcfloppy__> hello
06:38	<MasterOne> PULSE_SERVER surely is still set, because all other audio works fine on the thin client (I can't check right now, because I just switched off the server, due to me leaving soon now)
06:39	<mcfloppy__> is there a way to use 2 monitors on one thin client? a multihead
06:39	<ogra> you said you see the error if youre directl on the server
06:39	<MasterOne> ogra, that pulse bug is the one getting fixed by installing libflashsupport, I assume
06:39	<ogra> right
06:39	<MasterOne> but again, that one is not the error related to firefox crashing
06:40	still no possibility to check for yourself?
06:40	<sm7xab> HI! Why is it that LTSP5 copies physical files to it's own directory? Why not just link them in (at least it looks like there are local copies of files in there). Is it for security reasons?
06:41	<MasterOne> ogra, it surely gets easier once you have experience that firefox crash for yourself
06:41	<ogra> MasterOne, i have no real TC anywhere near me and i dont see anything like that in virtualbox
06:42	<MasterOne> hm
06:42	<sm7xab> Wouldn't it be enough to just symlink the files?
06:42	<MasterOne> ogra, no LTSP5 server around, which you could connect to using any machine capable of netboot?
06:42	<ogra> MasterOne, what bothers me most though is that you see that weird /proc access in the log
06:43	my laptop is an ltsp server ... i just dont have any other HW near
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06:43	<MasterOne> but that /proc thing occures on every login, independent of that error or firefox, because I already checked, that /proc/asound/cards comes up on every login, independent if logging in on the server directly or a thin client
06:44	<jr_junior> #ltsp-br
06:44	<MasterOne> so that one has to be triggered by something else
06:45	<ogra> well, but it can be the cause for all your issues
06:46	yay
06:46	<MasterOne> without a LTSP5/edubuntu developer, who can check that issue in a normal server/thinclient setup for himself, we are pretty much stuck, because once someone with the knowledge experiences that bug personally, he easily can do further investigation for himself
06:46	<ogra> i just made it crash :)
06:46	<johnny> lol
06:46	<MasterOne> I am not a dev, just a user, and I already invested too much time in such a minor issue ;)
06:47	<ogra> same segfalt :)
06:47	*segfault
06:47	<MasterOne> ogra, cool! or may I say "finally"!
06:47	<ogra> say finally ...
06:47	i dont know why it didnt crash before though
06:47	and it still works flawless on other flashvideo sites
06:47	<MasterOne> yes
06:49	I should mention, that once I had libflashsupport installed, I accessed that flashplayer on tv.com multiple times, and somehow it played that video maybe once in ten times, but even then it crashed once the first video was over and that player switched to the next clip
06:50	at that point these crashes seemed to be kind of random, but since then I couldn't get it to work any more, and now that I have tried a new installation, it just keeps crashing
06:50	<ogra> likely something in the way these videos are produces
06:51	*produced
06:51	<MasterOne> I do not assume, it has something to do with the content, but with the player
06:52	but in the end it is that stupid plugin
06:52	<jr_junior> Someone already set the scanner in LTSP terminals
06:52	?
06:52	<MasterOne> nevertheless, it should play, and not crash, as it does in every other scenario
06:53	* ogra confirms the bug
06:54	<MasterOne> the trouble is, if it would have been just the plugin's fault, it wouldn't work in all the other scenarios (even on firefox 64bit + nspluginwrapper + flash-nonfree 32 bit it's not crashing!)
06:56	* MasterOne is glad to not be crazy after all
06:57	<johnny> i disagree
06:57	jk :)
06:57	i've replicated crashes on sabayon again :(
06:57	<ogra> ok, with gnash the site doesnt even load properly
06:57	<johnny> uggh
07:00	<MasterOne> johnny, no crashes in Ubuntu 7.04, Ubuntu 7.10, Xubuntu 7.10 (if you are referring to a desktop setup), and Edubuntu Gutsy 64bit LTSP5 setup
07:00	all tested with recent firefox and flash-nonfree
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07:01	<johnny> flash-nonfree sounds evil in any non desktop setup
07:02	<MasterOne> johnny, a LTSP5 server nevertheless is a desktop setup ;)
07:02	<johnny> not really
07:02	you mean on the server itself, that should work
07:02	but when you try to do it on the clients, that doesn't count
07:02	not to them at least
07:03	<MasterOne> but as seen in this bug, it makes a difference, if logged in directly on the server, or on a thing client
07:04	firefox as well as flash-nonfree are installed on the LTSP5 server, so they are installed in a desktop environment
07:05	so in the end, it's a desktop setup on a server
07:05	<johnny> andy they work on the server?
07:06	it sounded lik it before, maybe not now?
07:06	<MasterOne> ?
07:06	<johnny> and*
07:07	<mcfloppy__> how can i deliver a special xorg.conf to one client?
07:08	<MasterOne> johnny, it's working on the server, it's working when accessing with the thin client, if the server is 64bit with firefox 64bit + nspluginwrapper + flash-nonfree 32bit, but it's crashing when accessing with the thin client and the server is 32bit, and it's working on a normal desktop setup
07:09	so it's exactly one scenario out of many, in which these crashes can be seen
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07:09	<johnny> you're lucky you ever get it to work outside of just 32bit or nspluginwrapper
07:09	on a normal desktop
07:09	you should start bugging them
07:09	<MasterOne> well, I am first of all glad, that this issue has been confirmed, but I really have to leave now, will pass by again later ;)
07:10	<johnny> sbalneav, are you about?
07:10	have you looked at francis's ldm patches for autologin? if so, can you tell how overboard it is? :)
07:11	i looked over it, and it seems to be only slightly
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07:14	<wanie> Hi! i will have sound on my thinclient. when i start xmms an select as outoutplugin esd i got an error when i play a song (pleas check if the soundcard is configuratet or busy..."
07:14	<johnny> lol xmms
07:15	no gtk1 apps left here finally..
07:15	<sutula> mcfloppy__: Which version of ltsp?
07:19	<ogra> MasterOne, workaround: padsp firefox
07:19	:)
07:20	<wanie> it doesn work with xine end esdplay , too
07:20	<ogra> if you make it use the pulse tunnel directly without the emulated alsa device it works ...
07:20	apparetly tv.com's player has an issue with alsa
07:20	wanie, which ltsp version is that ?
07:20	note that since a year we use alsa
07:21	<wanie> but the client say "sound server startet accepting connections on port 16001" and the ESPEAKER var on the server has the right ip and port
07:21	ltsp 4.2
07:21	<ogra> ah, k
07:21	* ogra wonders when we'll get rid of that unmaintained stuff sigh
07:22	<ogra> go warren, go !!!
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07:22	<wanie> ogra: i know, the current theme here is ltsp 5 but it doesn't work on my open suse
07:22	<vaisarger> hi all
07:23	<ogra> wanie, cyberorg maintains kiwi-ltsp for suse
07:23	thats very similar to ltsp5
07:24	<vaisarger> someone have exp problem with ltsp5 and ubuntu 7.10 ?
07:25	sbalneav ?
07:26	<ogra> vaisarger, you should probably describe your prob :)
07:26	<vaisarger> yes right, it's about remote devices (pendrive)
07:27	<ogra> that only the first user can get them ?
07:27	there is a bug in the ltspfsmounter script ...
07:27	<vaisarger> yes
07:27	and there is a solution ?
07:27	<ogra> delete line 21
07:28	<vaisarger> thank you , i'll try now
07:28	<ogra> in /usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter
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07:28	<ogra> env['DISPLAY'] = 'localhost:10.0' must go ...
07:28	else only the user on localhost:10.0 has device access
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07:28	<cyberorg> wanie, see http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP test it with your hardware, if it works, sound and local media support is all there
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07:30	<Greesmunky> To clarify: using ltsp5 standard debian packages, does a client mount the file system via NFS or NBD? If NFS, what does the NBD do in LTSP?
07:31	<ogra> nbd is about 10x as fast in booting
07:31	<wanie> cyberorg: ok thank!
07:31	*you
07:31	<ogra> debians older unionfs version was broken with nbd though, thats why debian stuck with nfs
07:31	<Greesmunky> ogra: But what is tried? NFS or NBD?
07:31	<ogra> recently there was included a unionfs version that works
07:31	nfs
07:32	only ubuntu uses nbd yet
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07:32	<Greesmunky> The Ubuntu wiki says NBD, the Debian Wiki doesn't say very much apart from: It Works, which it doesn't for me
07:32	<ogra> i know vagrant is working on the nbd stuff in debian, but it might not be 100% there yet
07:32	<cyberorg> ogra, and suse
07:32	<Greesmunky> ok, thanks for the info. NFS is the problem then
07:32	<ogra> cyberorg, oh, sorry for my ignorance
07:32	Greesmunky, and suse :)
07:32	<cyberorg> :)
07:33	<Greesmunky> does the option root-path in dhcpd.conf have any bearing on the NFS stuff/config?
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07:33	<cyberorg> we default to nbdroot, but also provide nfsroot for experimenting
07:33	<ogra> i think warren wants to go a different way for fedora ... some compilcated dm setup
07:33	Greesmunky, yes
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07:33	<ogra> its ignored for nbd but used for nfs
07:34	nbd operates on a port base ... nfs needs a mount path
07:34	<wanie> cyberorg: does it work on open suse 10.2, too?
07:34	<Greesmunky> I have option root-path /opt/ltsp/i386. Is that correct?
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07:35	<ogra> Greesmunky, yup
07:35	<cyberorg> wanie, nope, 10.3 only
07:35	<ogra> Greesmunky, where exactly do you get stuck ? whats the error you see on screen ?
07:35	<Greesmunky> ogra: where is the client part for the nfs mount command so that I can see where its going wrong
07:35	<MRH2> anyone use the Neoware e140 with ltsp?
07:37	<vaisarger> ogra: thank you very much!
07:37	<ogra> Greesmunky, /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/nfs
07:37	<Greesmunky> the first visible error on screen is: mounting /dev/nbd0 on /rofs failed. No such device...
07:37	<ogra> Greesmunky, but are you sure its nfs ? do you get a busybox shell =
07:37	?
07:37	oh
07:37	thats clearly nbd
07:37	seems you switched your client to use nbd somwhow
07:38	<Greesmunky> I get a busybox shell
07:38	<ogra> Greesmunky, check /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/conf.d/ltsp
07:38	it needs to say BOOT="nfs"
07:39	<vaisarger> I wrote a shell script for ltsp clients easy management: could it be useful for anybody?
07:39	<Greesmunky> ogra: mine says ltsp_nbd
07:40	<ogra> thats why it tries to use nbd
07:40	<Greesmunky> OK. Changed it. Do I now do a ltsp-update-kernels or image?
07:40	<ogra> chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 update-initramfs -u
07:40	then ltsp-update-kernels
07:41	<Greesmunky> ogra: ltsp-update-kernels also run it in the chroot?
07:42	ogra: I answer myself. Not in the chroot ;-)
07:42	<ogra> :)
07:43	<johnny> anybody here using sabayon on gutsy and having it actually work?
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07:43	<johnny> my current profile is working, but i can't edit it , nor create a new one
07:47	<Greesmunky> Ogra: That did it! It now works after 3 days of going round in circles! Thank you :-)
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07:48	<ogra> :)
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07:52	<vaisarger> I would like help ltsp "very newbye" users with my script: how should I publicize it?
07:53	<cyberorg> vaisarger, blog about it, post it on some wiki where user go for ltsp help etc ;)
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07:54	<cliebow__> vaisarger: wanna send me a copy?perhaps i can put i ti in wiki.ltsp.org...
07:54	with instructions 8~)
07:55	<ogra> what does it do ?
07:57	<vaisarger> Basically, it adds, removes and lists ltsp clients in /etc/dnsmasq and /etc/hosts, with Xdialog
07:58	<ogra> aww
07:58	in ubuntu we try to avoid DNS stuff if possible
07:58	<johnny> dnsmasq rules.. that's what i'm using
07:58	<ogra> but if people want it it might be helpful indeed ...
07:58	<johnny> but i put the thinclient stuff in /etc/ethers for mac mapping, not directly in the dnsmasq.conf
07:59	<ogra> (just makes debugging very hard if you assume they use it the default way)
07:59	<vaisarger> and little questions about launching "ltsp-update-image", and adding new client users, etc...
07:59	<johnny> dnsmasq is my preferred tool, that way i dont have to have any extra dhcp or tftp servers
07:59	<ogra> ltsp-update-image ??? for adding users ?
07:59	<johnny> installed
07:59	<ogra> use adduser
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07:59	<ogra> or the gnome-user-manager
08:00	there are no users in thin clients
08:00	only on the server
08:00	<johnny> dnsmasq == awesome
08:00	<ogra> johnny, yes, we know now :)
08:00	<vaisarger> it does use adduser, but with an Xdialog frontend :)
08:00	<ogra> why dont you use the gui tools that are already there for user management ?
08:01	<johnny> we already have that tho with gnome-user-manager, which prolly looks 10 times prettier than Xdialog
08:01	and you take advantage of HIG work
08:01	<ogra> i think Xdialog defaults to zentity if itdetects gnome ... shouldnt be to ugly
08:02	<vaisarger> because default graphical tool is in Python, and doesn't work on my machine, so I wrote my self
08:03	<ogra> the default gnome user manager doesnt work on your default ubuntu desktop ??
08:03	wow
08:03	did you file a bug about that ? thats an essential tool
08:04	* ogra kicks ltsp-image-shell for not doing what he wants ... grrrr
08:05	<vaisarger> I'm really sorry, but I had to have a graphical tool as soon as possible, and I didn't have time to file a bug...
08:05	<ogra> well, its the tool ubuntu uses everywhere to maintain its users
08:06	so i'm really curious whats wrong with it for you
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08:06	* ogra opens System->Administration->Users and Groups just to make sure it works here
08:07	<ogra> works as expected ...
08:07	<daduke> hey there, I'd like to ask what the status of autologin in LTSP (etch) is. There's a lot of stuff for LDM and KDM, but what about standard etch ltsp? Is there a way?
08:07	<vaisarger> I'm not talking about "system users" management tool, I'm talking about "ltsp-manager"
08:08	<ogra> ltsp uses whatever users are in the system
08:08	there are no users on the client
08:08	ltsp-manager is a proof of concept app
08:08	its only a gui with no backend, waiting for a programmer to pick it up and write a backend
08:09	i wrote it as a mockup ...
08:10	<vaisarger> ltsp people (lke you) 's hard work is very worthy, and I thank you for that :)
08:11	I tried to write an "ltsp-manager" in bash, that is (sob) the only language I know (sob)
08:11	<ogra> bash is fine
08:11	<vaisarger> :)
08:12	<ogra> 80% of ltsp is shellscripts (dash though, since we dont use bash as system shell)
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08:13	<vaisarger> Wow! So I could collaborate... :)
08:13	<johnny> daduke, there is a patch for it
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08:13	<johnny> to fix it that is
08:14	but no deb
08:14	<ogra> vaisarger, https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk
08:14	<daduke> johnny: patch for the display manager? Do you happen to recall the URL?
08:14	<ogra> there are instructions how to check out the code at the top
08:14	get it, play with it ... improve it :)
08:15	johnny, i doubt that works in debian
08:15	daduke, ^^^
08:15	<johnny> you don't think the patch does? why wouldn't it?
08:15	<ogra> hmm, the patch might
08:15	the packes surely wont
08:15	<johnny> yeah i said that :)
08:15	<ogra> as it requires ubuntu deps
08:16	<johnny> i haven't been able to contact francis yet
08:16	daduke, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/161794/ it's on the left
08:16	<ogra> the deb should work if you use -updates and -security repos in the chroot
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08:16	<daduke> ogra, johnny: they don't have to, we can package etch debs ourselves, we run a repo anyway
08:16	<ogra> seems thats what francios used
08:17	<vaisarger> I'm sincerely emotionalized... if I have a little bit of time I will do... I will do
08:17	* ogra would really love to now if his fis for leftover processes on logout works ...
08:17	<ogra> *fix
08:17	<johnny> logout ? or power cycle? :)
08:17	<ogra> logout
08:17	power cycle isnt solvable
08:18	unless you put a lot effort into writing funny acpi sctipts that are able to tak to the session without connection
08:19	<johnny> yeah.. that's the hard part, i guess that's why prelogin is best
08:20	<ogra> but prelogin doesnt know if tats from a leftover session or if the user actualy runs screen or nohup to compute something that shouldnt be killed
08:20	so prelogin is very evil
08:20	<daduke> johnny: thanks, I'll give it a try.
08:21	<johnny> hmm... true , but luckily my users will never use screen :)
08:21	<ogra> yeah, it might be ok in any scenarios, but i'D never accept it until thats solved properly ... xterminator will do un that case as workaround for now
08:21	s/un/in
08:22	moquist, sould call it ltsp-xterminator and put it in uiverse to make accessing it easier
08:22	<vaisarger> cliebow__ : my program is very easy to use, untar it and read README...
08:22	<ogra> whee, my typing sucks badly today
08:24	* ogra goes back to ltsp-image-shell ... i want to beta release that today ...
08:24	<ogra> s/beta/alpha/ :)
08:24	<vaisarger> cliebow__ : I tried to send my program through dcc, but it doesn't work... ???
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08:30	<johnny> dcc is rarely the best option these days
08:31	<vaisarger> It seems... :)
08:32	<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltsp-image-shell/ in case someone wants to see screenshots :)
08:32	<johnny> me me me!
08:33	<ogra> its very basic yet
08:33	<johnny> sure, but it's great already :)
08:33	<ogra> i plan to have a "edit file" button as well that spawns gedit inside the image with a file you can select
08:33	<Blinny> Very cool.
08:33	<ogra> and gdebi-gtk needs a hack to support chrooted installation of packages
08:34	so you can just download .debs and use the "install package" button, gedebi will care for the rest
08:34	<johnny> hmm.. so can anybody edit the local apps wiki page to point to the proper spec?
08:34	<ogra> johnny, its a wiki ... (which doesnt mean everybody should edit it :) )
08:35	flopperl is now known as hmm
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08:42	<vaisarger> Well... http://webash.virtuale.googlepages.com/ltsp_clients_manager.tar.gz in case someone thinks it's useful...
08:44	<ogra> vaisarger, english comments in the code would help a bit :)
08:44	<cliebow__> vaisarger attahc to cliebow at ltsp.org??
08:44	ohh..
08:45	<ogra> vaisarger, also have a look at scp-remote it might provide a lot helpful ifo you can use in your scripts
08:45	scp-remote --help ;)
08:45	(needs to run with sudo though)
08:46	* ogra wonders if anybody every used the python-ltsp modules he wrote a year ago
08:46	<vaisarger> cliebow__ : you are welcome to put it in ltsp.org...
08:47	ogra: I didn't understood: scp-remote, why?
08:47	<ogra> vaisarger, have a look at scp-remote --help (is installed by default usually)
08:48	it can list connected sessions etc and gives you ability to do some session control for the users logged in on the server through ltsp
08:48	lock screen, send messages start/kill apps etc
08:49	<vaisarger> Ok, thank you
08:49	<ogra> you can easily call it from shell scripts ;)
08:49	<vaisarger> VERY good
08:49	<Greesmunky> /quit time to go...
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08:51	<vaisarger> ogra: my program needs root privileges only because it modifies files in /etc...
08:53	* ogra still doesnt understand what the script does with useradd
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08:54	<ogra> richiedi_conferma "Do you want launch \"ltsp-update-image\" ?\n(It's mandatory only in two cases:\n1)if you change \"lts.conf\" file\nor\n2)new client can NOT enter\nin GNOME with following error message:\n\"is not authorized\" )"
08:54	<vaisarger> the scripts allow the admin to create a new ltsp server user for each client, so you have one ltsp server user for each client...
08:55	<ogra> vaisarger, ^^^ thats wrong
08:55	dont use lts.conf inside the chroot
08:55	(thats why it has a ten line warning at the top to not use it ;) )
08:56	<vaisarger> I know, in fact my program doesn't use it (it's only for old version...)
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08:56	<ogra> vaisarger, /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf is the file you should use nowadays ... that doesnt require ltsp-update-image
08:56	<val_> hi
08:56	)
08:57	<ogra> sadly i havet founda way to solve the -update-sshkeys thing yet without breakig security
08:57	it needs the image rebuild ...
08:57	<vaisarger> I did need to launch "ltsp-ssh-keys" and "ltsp-update-image" the very first time
08:57	<ogra> (sounds like it would be worth a button in ltsp-image-shell g :) )
08:57	vaisarger, right, ssh needs -update-image
08:58	(as i just wrote :) )
08:58	<vaisarger> I had a problem: when I logged in gdm, error occurred: "is not authorised"... an Ubuntu forum said to do it...
08:58	<ogra> right
08:59	<val_> some truble with lstpadmin. when i try update/install packages i have wrong message like " uninitialized value in hash element at /usr/sbin/ltspadmin line 653" and etc.
08:59	<ogra> it happens if you changed the IP of the server after installing the ltsp chroot
08:59	<val_> hm'
09:00	and how to solve this
09:00	<ogra> so updating the ssh keys in the image is needed to tell the client to use the new IP
09:00	as it will only know the keys that were there at build time
09:01	val_, you need to wait for someone who knows that old ltsp4.2 code ...
09:01	that stuff wasnt touched by anyone for more than two years
09:02	<vaisarger> ogra: great ltsp "one of" developer: what do you think about my script? Is it ugly? ...
09:02	<ogra> (or investigate the code yourself :) )
09:03	jammcq has joined #ltsp
09:03	<jammcq> helloooooo
09:04	<ogra> vaisarger, change all the whereis calls (non standard tool) to use "which" would be an improvement
09:04	val_, jammcq is the man you want i guess
09:04	<vaisarger> For me it could useful for some ltsp new bye admin... but your opinion is worthy for me...
09:04	<ogra> jammcq, morning :)
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09:04	<jammcq> anybody seen scotty?
09:05	<ogra> not since last week or so
09:05	!seen sbalneav
09:05	<ltspbot> ogra: sbalneav was last seen in #ltsp 1 week, 0 days, 0 hours, 13 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <sbalneav> I'm actually subscribed to the nbd-users list.
09:05	<ogra> heh, my mind didnt trick me
09:05	<jammcq> hmm
09:05	off by 13 minutes and 35 seconds
09:05	you need to work on that
09:05	<ogra> his IRC proxy seems to run though
09:05	<vaisarger> ogra: ok for wich... no problem
09:05	<ogra> he didnt leave the room since ages
09:07	vaisarger, and i cant really predict how dpkg will like that you changed the config of dnsmasq ... propbably there is a way to use debconf for the config changes (that way users wont be asked if they want to replace the conffile on upgrades)
09:07	* jammcq is talking to scotty on the phone. he lives :)
09:07	<ogra> send greetings :)
09:07	<jcastro> ogra: moquist: http://aruiz.typepad.com/siliconisland/2007/12/apoc-goes-open.html
09:07	fyi
09:08	<ogra> jcastro, geez, sounds loke more work for us in ltsp land :)
09:08	<val_> ogra, and where i can find ssh keys?
09:08	<jcastro> ogra: I wasn't implying anything ... just pointing it out. :D
09:08	<vaisarger> cliebow__ : may you let me know at vaisargerATyahooDOTit when you use my program ?
09:08	<ogra> val_, the ssh comments were directd to vaisarger, not you
09:09	jcastro, well :)
09:09	<val_> brrr
09:09	<ogra> val_, the old ltsp doesnt use ssh
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09:09	<vaisarger> ogra: I never had problems with dpkg, using my tool...
09:09	<ogra> val_, but as i said before jammcq is probably your best bet to ask questions about the ltsp 4.2 tools
09:10	vaisarger, did you try a dist-upgrade ? :)
09:10	<johnny> ugg.. that kinda sucks
09:10	<ogra> the update-manager fails if there are questions it cant answer ... using debconf prevents that situation completely
09:10	<johnny> sun sucks..
09:10	:(
09:11	<ogra> johnny, well, i'd be hapy if i could use the sun ray thin client i have lying around, its a nicely designed case :)
09:11	<johnny> the gconf adapter would be cool for ltsp tho
09:11	<vaisarger> No, I didn't dist-upgrade, because I installed my Gutsy 2 weeks ago...
09:11	<ogra> yeah :)
09:12	vaisarger, generally it helps to use preseeding and dbeconf for changing packages configs ....
09:12	*debconf
09:12	<cliebow__> vai:i 'd like to take a look at it anyway..i have it downloaded..
09:13	<vaisarger> cliebow__ : no problem
09:14	<ogra> vaisarger, instead of setting 123456 as default password you could just leave the password empty and set it to be expired (passwd -e) and let the user choose a new one on first login
09:14	<vaisarger> ogra: Actually, I had no configs debconf problem so far... so far... Anyway, I know now that there could be a problem...
09:15	<ogra> passwd -e will force him/her to first set a new one
09:15	before he/her even gets in
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09:15	<vaisarger> ogra: Wow! Good tip!
09:17	<ogra> and you should read up about gettext in shellscripts ... so you can use only one langage in the code and let gettext care for transaltions ;)
09:17	<vaisarger> ogra: You know, I always worked with Fedora, wich has a "passwd" that reads StdIn...
09:17	<ogra> scary :)
09:18	<vaisarger> gettext.... I tought about... you know, "ltsp_clients_manager" was born to work ONLY in my "italian" machine... yes... you're right
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09:19	<ogra> look at ltsp-build-client for code examples, it uses it ...
09:20	* ogra takes a coffeebrask
09:20	<ogra> break sigh*
09:20	<johnny> l3rn2type n00b
09:20	<vaisarger> Well... if my script could be useful, I could rewrite it using gettext... Good coffee! :)
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09:22	<vaisarger> Sigh... I must go, see you... CIAO! :)
09:22	<cliebow__> 8~)
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09:23	<val_> mlyat'!
09:23	<ogra> i can installed it by ftp
09:24	without mistakes
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09:30	<ogra> val_, you pointed out an error in ltspadmin ... whic s an old ltsp 4.2 tool ... nobody touched that code for nearly 2.5 years ... but jammcq wrote it, so he's your best bet to get help wit it
09:31	<Gadi> well, 2.5 years is a bit of exaggeration
09:31	<jammcq> not much
09:31	<ogra> Gadi, ?
09:31	<Gadi> we weren't all working on LTSP5 breezy ;)
09:31	<ogra> since ltsp 5 exists ther ewas one kernel update for 4.2, i'm nt aware of anyhing else
09:31	<Gadi> just feels like 2.5 years
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09:32	<ogra> Gadi, well, since breezy nobody touched that code, al manpower was on ltsp5
09:32	<Gadi> heh, ogra, that's bec you were working on ltsp5 breezy
09:32	<ogra> scott and jim as wll
09:32	*well
09:32	<Gadi> heh, thats what they wanted you to think
09:32	<jammcq> well, jim was mostly watching
09:32	<Gadi> that way you could do all the heavy lifting
09:33	;)
09:33	<ogra> and scott owns at least 50% of todays ltsp5 code
09:33	dont underestimate what he did since breezy :)
09:33	<Gadi> yeah, but it took a good 1.5 years for the KoolAid to kick in with Scotty
09:34	<jammcq> mmmm KoolAid
09:34	<ogra> jammcq, not true that you only watched, without you pushing ltsp5 would boot in 5min+ today :)
09:34	<jammcq> ok, I'll take credit for that :)
09:34	<ogra> :)
09:35	<jammcq> so, I watched, and I was the cheerleader
09:35	<ogra> you were the brain :)
09:35	and still are :)
09:35	* ogra wouldnt implement stuff if jammcq would veto it
09:35	<jammcq> ok, now you are just sucking up.
09:35	but keep doing it
09:36	btw, scotty will be along momentarily
09:36	<Gadi> do you guys need a moment alone?
09:36	;)
09:36	<cliebow__> aanother cheerleader here!! siss boom baahhh (humbug)
09:36	<jammcq> he made the mistake of answering the phone
09:36	cliebow__: you get some decent snow?
09:37	<cliebow__> mush mostly
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09:40	<johnny> lol
09:43	<cliebow__> still snowing..
09:44	<johnny> it might snow here tonight/tomorrow
09:44	first snow i've seen in a awhile
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10:05	* sbalneav pant pant pant
10:05	<sbalneav> Morning all!
10:05	<jammcq> Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10:06	<sbalneav> Cripes, I'm getting a workout today :)
10:06	<johnny> howdy sbalneav
10:07	<sbalneav> heya
10:07	<cliebow__> ayeh!!!
10:07	<johnny> lemme know if you got a minute sometime to look over a patch , unless you've already seen it
10:07	the autologin one
10:08	<sbalneav> I've seen activity on it, it's been frantic here at work for the last 2 weeks.
10:08	I've done 8 server updates :)
10:08	<johnny> of course i'm just plain having troulbe getting the package to build
10:08	i don't understand complete ubuntu/debian packaging stuff yet
10:10	zodman has quit IRC
10:11	<alekibango> johnny: try dpkg-buildpackage or ./debian/rules binary-arch in the directory
10:11	<johnny> yes.. i did
10:11	<alekibango> rules is basicaly just a makefile
10:12	<johnny> i'd like the patch to get submitted upstream at some point
10:15	<sbalneav> Looks like the patch hacks out the langague and session settings?
10:15	<johnny> no, it moves them down
10:16	at least i think it does
10:16	that's why i'm asking you to look at it :)
10:16	<alekibango> johnny: dpatch might get usefull. i would love to learn to use dpatch soon
10:16	<sbalneav> You do this, or Francis?
10:16	<johnny> francis
10:16	i worked with him in figuring out the problem
10:17	as in, where it broke :)
10:17	<sbalneav> Odd, as I don't have the problem at home, but hey, if it works, any old port in a storm.
10:17	<johnny> i'm trying to get my C knowing friend to add back the \| pipe stuff
10:18	<sbalneav> I've been rewriting parts of ldm using libexpect, I'll throw this into the mix.
10:18	<johnny> are you happy with that \| option ?
10:18	as in, how it works, or would you like a different option?
10:18	<ogra> ok ... https://code.launchpad.net/~ogra/ltsp/ltsp-build-client-gtk has a new friend at https://code.launchpad.net/~ogra/ltsp/ltsp-image-shell now :)
10:19	<sbalneav> Hey ogra!
10:19	<johnny> ogra == awesome
10:19	<ogra> !s
10:19	<ltspbot> ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10:19	<sbalneav> Personall, I don't think it needs to be in the C part, myself.
10:19	<ogra> sbalneav, seen https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ldm/+bug/173239 ?
10:20	<sbalneav> I think it could easily be handled in the ldm screen script wrapper.
10:20	<ogra> i dont see any stale procs around anymore with that change
10:20	<johnny> think so?
10:20	thanks for the info sbalneav
10:21	<ogra> sbalneav, fgiraldeau uregently needs to clean up his autologin patch it changes lots more than fixing autologin
10:21	<sbalneav> ogra: yeah, I was actually also thinking we could do a "pkill -u -9 $USER" on the way out, as well.
10:21	<ogra> eeek
10:21	<johnny> ogra, what part do you mean?
10:21	<ogra> what about nohup or screen sessions ?
10:21	<sbalneav> Ooooh
10:21	<ogra> johnny, the patch
10:21	<johnny> how does it do more than fixing autologin ?
10:21	<sbalneav> good point
10:21	<ogra> johnny, read it :)
10:21	<johnny> i did
10:21	<sbalneav> brb
10:21	<ogra> so you saw that he also changes the error handling and feedback
10:22	<johnny> the only odd part is the part that beings with gboolean err_flag = FALSE;
10:22	<ogra> the way this patch is atm i cant even think about doing an SRU for ldm to get it fisxed in gutsy
10:22	<johnny> begins*
10:23	<ogra> sbalneav, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltsp-image-shell/ ;)
10:23	jamey-uk has joined #ltsp
10:23	<johnny> well, i wish i could get in contact with him, no luck yet
10:24	<ogra> johnny, well, there is a bug, you know ...
10:24	this launchpad thingie actually allows you to comment ;)
10:24	<johnny> sure, but you're the one with the issue with the patch , i would prolly explain it wrong
10:24	<ogra> he's subscribed :)
10:24	<jamey-uk> I'm interested in using the LTSP technology to help a company put together a new office for approx. 36 PCs. Can someone advise on the best distro, configuration, setup and so on?
10:24	<johnny> jamey-uk, read the edubuntu handbook
10:25	best distro is subjective
10:25	but ubuntu seems to be doing very well
10:25	sul4bh has joined #ltsp
10:25	<jamey-uk> has it recently been updated since the last release of (ed)ubutunu? Just I was looking for the latest info, sort of 'inside' knowledge ;)
10:25	ah okay
10:25	<ogra> johnny, well, best integration is surely ubuntu atm ... closely followed by debian
10:25	<alekibango> i am trying to use debian lenny or sid and i have some issues. is it working for someone here?
10:25	<ogra> alekibango, whats the issue ?
10:26	<alekibango> i have written a script which will auto install and configure all
10:26	for sid or lenny
10:26	<ogra> ??
10:26	<alekibango> and in virtualbox i am creating server from scratch
10:26	<ogra> whaat would you configure in ltsp5 ...
10:26	-a
10:26	<alekibango> ogra: for example: dhcp, tftpd
10:26	<ogra> it should work out of the box
10:26	<alekibango> etc
10:26	so it would RUN
10:26	<ogra> well, look at ubuntu then ;)
10:27	<sbalneav> ogra: I'll sit down tonight, and try to come up with a minimal patch for autologin.
10:27	<jamey-uk> so if I go for ubuntu, I'll have to add the LTSP package (same with debian) but edubuntu has it all preinstalled? Except, of course, these machines aren't going to be used in an educational environment so I wouldn't want the edubuntu-specifics.
10:27	<ogra> debian just removed a lot of the auto* stuff to keep it optional for users
10:27	<alekibango> ogra: there are some issues even in ubuntu, but edubuntu is really nice i have tried
10:27	<ogra> sbalneav, thanks :)
10:27	<moquist> ogra: I'm intending xterminator to go into universe; I'm just slow in getting 0.2 packaged and tested and ready to propose for inclusion. :p
10:27	<alekibango> anyway, i need debian :D
10:28	<moquist> sbalneav: are you happy with sshfsplus?
10:28	<ogra> alekibango, ltsp-server-stabdalone has a bunch of debconf switches in debian you can preseed iirc
10:28	<alekibango> nice tip, ty
10:28	my little script is doing it well
10:28	<ogra> if you just preseed these it should do everything like in ubuntu
10:28	and it wont break on upgrades ;)
10:28	<alekibango> but still, it is not working for me well, when i use lenny
10:29	i cannot run from the client some apps, for example fluxbox or kde applications or kde itself
10:29	blackbox works! lol
10:29	it complains about missng device or something... obscure error...
10:29	<ogra> alekibango, i heard that KDE is totally broken in leny atm
10:29	<alekibango> that might be it
10:29	or something in X
10:29	<ogra> you're the second person this week who has probs with KDE and lenny in here
10:29	<alekibango> and using sid -> it is not booting for me when i use the same method
10:30	still need to go into why
10:30	<ogra> he had exactly the same issue, and ran blackbox :)
10:30	<alekibango> ogra: that might be me 3 days ago
10:30	<ogra> oh ...
10:30	right
10:30	sorry ...
10:30	<alekibango> np, thanks
10:31	<johnny> hmm.. what will debian do when they run out of toy story names? :)
10:31	<jamey-uk> Which is better to server 36 thin clients: one powerful server or two less-powerful? In terms of performance and value.
10:31	<alekibango> i would love it if someone here would try to isntall minimal sid server, then installed ltsp using my script or any other automatic method to get working environment
10:31	<ogra> jamey-uk, i'd go for a single beefy one
10:31	<alekibango> jamey-uk: on less powerfull
10:31	jamey-uk: one less powerfull
10:32	<ogra> saves maintenance
10:32	* jamey-uk is confused
10:32	<jamey-uk> alekibango: one less powerful?!
10:32	<ogra> heh
10:32	he'S trying to confuse you :)
10:32	<jamey-uk> but if it's serving 36 clients, it'll need to be powerful/beefy
10:32	ahhh okay :D
10:32	<alekibango> you dont need that much power usually, mostly you need ram
10:32	<ogra> jamey-uk, 256M for the server, 128M per connected user ... do the math
10:33	<Blinny> SATA or SCSI is an almost-must.
10:33	<johnny> it also depends on the clients
10:33	if you were to use local apps, then it might change a bit
10:33	<ogra> there are no localapps yet :)
10:34	<johnny> sbalneav, btw, your page for local apps has a bad url for spec
10:34	<ogra> and i doubt he wants to use a development release thats breaking all the time
10:34	johnny, i changed that on monday ...
10:34	<johnny> aha.. nice
10:35	<jamey-uk> I thought there were local apps? None at all? Are there local devices?
10:35	<johnny> yes
10:35	<ogra> yup
10:35	F-GT has quit IRC
10:35	<jamey-uk> lol, so no to apps but yes to local devices (I'm guessing)...
10:35	<johnny> yes
10:35	F-GT has joined #ltsp
10:36	<ogra> right
10:36	<alekibango> is there anyone willing to test latest sid or lenny debian packages for me, for example in virtual server environment? i would love to make it work and update confusing outdated documentation on wiki.
10:36	<ogra> localapps is in the works
10:36	<johnny> plenty of apps, they just don't run on the thin client without serious hackery
10:36	<ogra> no promises they will make the next ubuntu release though .. first priority is atm to get fedora up to speed with the upstream code
10:37	so we have something unified for all distros
10:38	(and thats the reason why the localapps spec is no ubuntu spec but an ltsp upstream spec (and thus has a different url :) ))
10:38	<alekibango> i would love to have ldm messages localized, is it internationalized? i would translate...
10:39	<ogra> its not gettextized yet (patches welcome ;) )
10:39	<alekibango> ogra: translate != coe
10:39	<ogra> but indeed we plan to have it transaltable
10:40	<alekibango> *code
10:40	<ogra> well, gettext == code :)
10:40	without gettext no translation
10:40	<alekibango> ic, but i have also other things to do :D
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10:41	<alekibango> i am not experienced in int...ing
10:41	especially if its c code (which i dislike a lot)
10:41	wait, is it c or python? :D
10:41	<ogra> its C now
10:42	since the last release
10:42	<alekibango> you will need someone else then :D i am not that productive in c
10:42	<ogra> but someone volunteered on the ltsp ML to keep the old ldm around for easier modification
10:43	<alekibango> we all want only the latest and stable
10:43	:D
10:43	<ogra> well, if you want to hack up the code to do soething customized pythn is surely easier :)
10:43	<alekibango> i know, i love py
10:43	<ogra> me too, but it proved to be to slow on many clients
10:45	so we only use it on the server side for i.e. maintenance tools
10:45	and resort to shell and C on the client side
10:50	<jamey-uk> So if I'm building an LTSP server to server 36 thin clients then 8GB of RAM (256 + 128 * 36 = 4864) would be more than enough. What processor would people recommend?
10:51	<ogra> a fast 32bit dual core ... or two
10:52	<jamey-uk> is 64-bit not worth it?
10:52	<ogra> not worth the hassle (remember, all apps in the users session run on the server ... i.e. firefox)
10:53	<jamey-uk> so I'm guessing that not all apps and stuff are 64bit yet?
10:53	<cliebow__> jamy-uk:fo rinstance ltspfs needs to be recopmpiled for 64 bit
10:53	<jamey-uk> oh thats crap
10:53	ok 32bit dual core it is
10:53	or dual dual core
10:53	okay bye thanks for now
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10:53	<johnny> unless your clients are64bit :)
10:53	lol
10:54	<ogra> cliebow__, ??
10:55	why would that be ?
10:56	<cliebow__> ..i had to build the piece that sits on the server way back when..
10:56	<ogra> and you didnt file a bug ?
10:56	* ogra pokes cliebow__ in the kidneys
10:57	<cliebow__> ohh noo..this was way back in 4.3
10:57	err 4.2
10:57	<ogra> ah :)
10:57	<cliebow__> sorry..
10:57	<ogra> the ltspfs protocol shouldnt care about cpu arch :)
10:57	<cliebow__> i suppose it just works nowadays 8~)
10:58	Scottie helped me with it back then..
10:58	<ogra> apart from a silly bug in ltspfsmounter, yes :)
10:59	<sbalneav> ogra: yeah, that's why I used the whole PITA xdr stuff.
10:59	Hey! Got myself a 64 bit box at home.
10:59	<ogra> yeah :) you rock :)
10:59	<sbalneav> So now I should be able to test 32 and 64.
11:00	<ogra> i'll get a new laptop in may, then my 64bit one is spare
11:00	<sbalneav> Cripes, it's snowing here.
11:00	* ogra is tired of only 1h battery life
11:00	<sbalneav> We're supposed to get 15 CM of snow today.
11:00	<ogra> wow
11:01	<alekibango> sbalneav: where?
11:01	<sbalneav> Winnipeg, MB, CA
11:01	<ogra> we got +5°C atm
11:01	<alekibango> lol
11:01	<ogra> says my weather applet :)
11:01	<alekibango> my said 79°C
11:01	it got broken in mythtv
11:01	:D
11:01	<sbalneav> Cripes, only one major MAJOR problem here to sort out.
11:01	<ogra> alekibango, for your egg water ?
11:01	<sbalneav> gutsy upgrades have been going swimmingly
11:02	but, we get mouse death.
11:02	<alekibango> ogra there is a bug in mythtv weather plugin
11:02	<sbalneav> here's the symptoms:
11:02	<Gadi> ah, I have heard reports of mouse death as well
11:02	<sbalneav> Via EDEN EPIA 5000 mobo, via chipset.
11:02	* ogra hasnt yet
11:02	<Gadi> same mobo
11:02	try vesa vid driver
11:02	<sbalneav> Mouse, all of a sudden, will stop working.
11:03	<Gadi> I am finding lots of instabilities with trident driver in gutsy
11:03	<sbalneav> USB mouse that is.
11:03	<ogra> ah, might be openchrome related
11:03	<sbalneav> light actually GOES OUT on the mouse
11:03	<alekibango> mouse death? Maybe cat will know something... man cat
11:03	<sbalneav> plugging and unplugging does nothing
11:03	<ogra> that smells raher like kernel/udev
11:03	<Gadi> yeah - you may also get users freezing after using the terminal for a while
11:03	<sbalneav> unloading and reloading USB drivers does nothing.
11:04	<ogra> Gadi, for sure they freeze, it snows at his place
11:04	* Gadi has been wrestling with same issue and same mobos
11:04	<alekibango> sbalneav: udevtrigger ; udevsettle ?
11:04	<sbalneav> if I use PS/2 mouse, everything's fine.
11:04	<Gadi> ogra: har har har
11:04	<sbalneav> Gadi: I'm pretty sure it's not video, since, the KEYBOARD's still active
11:04	<ogra> get the lawyers off the terrace, damnit :)
11:04	<sbalneav> I can close out the session nicely via keyboard commands.
11:04	<alekibango> when the mouse dies?
11:05	<Gadi> sbalneav: it all goes thru Xorg ;)
11:05	<sbalneav> Gadi: yeah, but actually poweing down the USB port?
11:05	it's like it's actually DEACTIVATED the usb port
11:05	<ogra> yeah
11:06	sounds really more like an input driver issue
11:06	<Gadi> sbalneav: a mouse driver overruning a buffer that kills a port is not unheard of
11:06	<ogra> any logs ?
11:06	dmesg or so ?
11:06	oppses ...
11:06	<sbalneav> Not yet. I'm going to actively hunt it down over the next week.
11:07	<Gadi> sbalneav: pls keep us posted
11:07	FYI: I have seen session freezing randomly on those boards and I think I finally traced it to the vid driver
11:07	if you get the same try switching to VESA
11:08	<sbalneav> ok
11:08	I can try that.
11:08	<Gadi> It was quite random and hard to trace
11:08	<ogra> well, if its via you could also try one of the other drivers :)
11:08	<sbalneav> Yeah, this seems that way.
11:08	ogra: It's trident
11:08	<ogra> oh, k
11:08	<Gadi> ogra: whats the deal with the other via drivers - are there better/worse ones to use with Gutsy?
11:09	<sbalneav> Which seems kind of strange that via wouldn't use their own chipset for video on a via manufactured board.
11:09	I'm using the openchrome one now in Hardy
11:09	<Gadi> sbalneav: via has a slew of different video chipsets/drivers
11:09	<ogra> Gadi, well, openchrome works more stable with certain chips
11:09	(than via does)
11:09	<Gadi> is openchrome in universe?
11:09	<ogra> but its a chip to chip thing
11:10	<sbalneav> Think so,
11:10	<ogra> nope, main now
11:10	<Gadi> do they conflict?
11:10	can they both be in there at once?
11:10	<ogra> oh, no i lied
11:10	its universe
11:10	<Gadi> ie installed
11:10	<ogra> it was supposed to go to main together with the amd driver ...
11:11	i wonder why it didnt
11:11	<Gadi> is it XSERVER=openchrome
11:11	or XSERVER=via
11:11	and just via gets replaced?
11:11	* ogra looks at amd ... ok, probably better to have it working in universe than having it non-working in main :P
11:11	<ogra> via gets replaced
11:12	<Gadi> btw, I hired a dev to fix the amd driver in gutsy
11:12	he starts work this week
11:12	<ogra> any progress yet ?
11:12	ah
11:12	<Gadi> stay tuned ... ;)
11:12	<ogra> i dont understand how that could happen ... i'D really expect upstream to take more care here
11:13	<Gadi> well, sometimes you gotta make ur own upstream
11:13	<ogra> like followig what changes in X and adjusting ther stuff
11:13	<Gadi> man, that sounds dirty
11:13	<ogra> lol
11:14	until today i only saw distro people working on it ... be it fedora, Q-Funk or others ...
11:15	<sbalneav> Gadi: Where does one find people to write/fix an X driver?
11:15	<Gadi> bwahahaha
11:15	<ogra> you dig deeep ... very deeeeep
11:16	<Gadi> here at Symbio, we have access to some of the best developers in the world ;)
11:17	<ogra> do you have a storage you keep tem in ?
11:17	<Gadi> just up my sleeve
11:18	<ogra> heh
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12:08	<dberkholz> ogra: yeah, maybe you could merge in the commits i made so far on the plugins
12:08	ogra: that way people won't always be asking where my work ended up
12:08	<johnny> dberkholz, you doing ltsp5 for gentoo?
12:08	scrapbunny has joined #ltsp
12:08	<johnny> or just in general?
12:09	<dberkholz> johnny: sort of. i "am" but i haven't worked on it much lately
12:09	<johnny> any issues?
12:09	i might be willing to test it out sometime, but atm my thin client env is all ubuntu atm, due to the local env
12:09	<dberkholz> the issue is that i haven't finished it
12:10	not that i have something that should be finished but has bugs
12:10	ogra: http://dev.gentoo.org/~dberkholz/ltsp/ltsp-mainline/ should hopefully have my stuff in it
12:11	<scrapbunny> hello all. i know local devices are on by default but they are not loading and i don't really need them on. is there a benefit in turning them off?
12:11	<johnny> not really
12:11	as far as i can see at least
12:12	<scrapbunny> what would I put in ltsp.conf to turn them off?
12:12	<cliebow__> lts.conf
12:12	<johnny> why?
12:13	you're not going to notice a difference
12:13	i guarantee it
12:13	<scrapbunny> it was suggested on the edubuntu mailing list that turning it off could help with cpu usage
12:13	<johnny> i doubt it
12:14	not using firefox and openoffice or gnome could help your CPU usage :)
12:15	it's your apps and the env itself that are going to cause you problems
12:16	<scrapbunny> i am not using firefox or open office. so far i am deffering to ogra's knowledge that gnome is better then the xfce
12:16	<johnny> better is relative of course
12:16	<scrapbunny> of course :)
12:16	<johnny> i prefer gnome
12:16	it is better
12:16	but it does use a lot more CPU
12:17	and memory
12:18	i run xfce just fine with 256mb of ram on desktops
12:18	but i would never enjoy running gnome at that
12:18	<scrapbunny> what are the advantages of gnome in a thin client environment?
12:18	<johnny> uhmm... go install xubuntu :)
12:18	then you'll see
12:19	the same advnantages of running it elsewhere
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12:19	<johnny> better integration, friendlier looking
12:19	<scrapbunny> i want sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude install xubuntu-desktop right?
12:19	<johnny> better help files
12:19	yeawh.. you could do that
12:20	that won't just make it work on the thin client tho
12:20	if you really wanted fast thin clients, you'd skp an env altogether and just use a windowmanager like fluxbox or icewm
12:20	personally, i'll stick with gnome, i'd rather spend more money on hardware than deal with all that mess
12:21	hardware is cheaper than the time it'll take to make it all work
12:21	and still be friendlier to use
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12:23	<scrapbunny> that is what ogra's point was too i think. thanks so much. I really appreciate all the help and my 600+ students do too :)
12:24	sul4bh has left #ltsp
12:24	<johnny> i'm just glad i can help folks like that
12:24	now if only i could get paid for it :)
12:24	so i could do this all day
12:25	support and fixes for specific entities
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12:55	<vagrantc> ogra: yeah, so ... ltspfs ...
12:55	ogra: or, if you prefer, LtspFS
12:55	just to keep things clear :)
12:56	<ogra> lol
12:58	<vagrantc> ogra: have you tried the ltspfs-single-mount patches?
12:59	<sbalneav> hey vagrantc!
12:59	<vagrantc> sbalneav: heya!
12:59	<ogra> vagrantc, nope, not yet
12:59	i'll do before christmas ...
12:59	<vagrantc> i also wrote a patch somewhere to basically do "test -w /dev/fuse" from ltspfsmounter and exit
12:59	* ogra is travelling again from next week on
13:00	<vagrantc> i'll have intermittant network access till the 13th or so ...
13:00	and probably no access from the 10th-13th ...
13:01	<ogra> PIZZA !
13:01	<mistik1> ok, my brain is getting a little soggy
13:01	* ogra goes for diner
13:01	<ogra> *dinner
13:01	<vagrantc> sbalneav: i made big patches to lbmount.c ... my first playing with c code in any real way
13:01	<mistik1> What is the proper switch to mke2fs to make it not want to fsck for a long time
13:01	<sbalneav> Yeah, makes sense.
13:02	<johnny> man it
13:02	man mke2fs
13:02	man tune2fs
13:02	<ogra> tune2fs
13:02	<johnny> i think you can specific it on mkfs tho
13:02	ogra, go away! :)
13:03	<mistik1> I thought so also I just cant remember which switch it is
13:03	<johnny> pizza4u
13:04	<sbalneav> I originally wanted what you coded, but fore some reason, pitti wanted it mounted in /tmp, IIRC
13:04	<vagrantc> i should really get an ldm upload to debian experimental ... even if all the other packages aren't really ready ... it'll sit in the NEW queue for weeks
13:04	<sbalneav> Is the stuff that's in the upstream branch on launchpad, that DOESN'T have the debian dir in it, right?
13:05	I've been out of touch for 2 weeks, sorry.
13:05	<vagrantc> sbalneav: did you ever get a chance to ask pitti why again?
13:05	<warren> This is killing me. I keep finding new kernel bugs in 2.6.23 and I get sidetracked trying to debug them.
13:05	<vagrantc> sbalneav: yeah, ltspfs always had the debian dir as a separate project
13:05	<warren> Kernel bugs that just happen to break LTSP.
13:05	probably new in 2.6.23. 2.6.22 is fine.
13:06	<sbalneav> I couldn't track him down. It was something to do with pmount, however, seeing as how pmount isn't used anymore in favour of HAL
13:06	I'm sure it doesn't matter anymore.
13:06	<vagrantc> sbalneav: the only major thing i can think of is it requires making the directory writeable for the user somehow ... i currently just make it group writeable
13:07	sbalneav: which, if the user's default group was the same for multiple users, could cause issues ...
13:08	<sbalneav> ahhhh
13:08	that was it.
13:08	Se, the issue was, he didn't want the user having any rights to the directory.
13:08	<vagrantc> hrm.
13:09	using a predictable location in /tmp is an ugly security risk ...
13:09	<sbalneav> since then, the user can basically manually umount the fuse mount, and then put stuff in that directory.
13:09	<ogra> pmount wasnt involved , it just had the same issues, he used it as example back then
13:09	vagrantc, not with fuse though ...
13:10	not even root can read the contents
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13:10	<vagrantc> ogra: you could create a directory that had world-writeable permissions in the predictable location of the uesr's ltspfs mount, and then after they'd done the mount, move it somewhere else
13:11	ogra: and then create a directory that they write files to
13:11	<ogra> the fuse mount will sit on top of that
13:11	<vagrantc> ogra: and then read or write those files
13:11	<ogra> as soon as fuse is there you wont be able to change anything
13:11	its hogging the mountpoint
13:11	<vagrantc> you can move the whole directory, since it's mounted as a sub-directory ...
13:12	<ogra> if the mount is gone it doesnt matter at all
13:12	how ? if i dont even have read access
13:12	<warren> ogra, so the new tool mounts the squashfs, then unionfs on top, you make changes and it applies the changes to the squashfs image?
13:12	<vagrantc> i.e. mounted on /tmp/.ltspfs-username/cdrom ... i could make /tmp/.ltspfs-username a directory ... and then mv /tmp/.ltspfs-username /tmp/anywhere
13:12	<ogra> warren, it runs mksquashfs on the munted unionfs
13:13	*mounted
13:13	<warren> ogra, ahh, very simple.
13:13	<Gadi> ogra: yeah, very slick
13:13	* Gadi just read ur code
13:13	<ogra> sadly a bit time consuming
13:13	i'D prefer to have editable images ;)
13:13	<vagrantc> genext2fs
13:13	<warren> ogra, I guess without unionfs I'll have to serve ext3 within squashfs
13:13	<ogra> but until squashfs supporst that i'll be grey haired
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13:14	<warren> I'll have to keep the original tree around for now
13:14	<ogra> (even though we emply squashfs upstream, i could just ask ... hm)
13:14	*employ
13:14	<sbalneav> potentially, it's a DOS attack, if tmp is in /, a user could fill up /media/user with stuff, and full up the root dir
13:15	<vagrantc> sbalneav: well, you could DOS /tmp or /media/user ...
13:15	<ogra> sbalneav, i'll ask pitti again if i find he's got time for looking at the code
13:15	<sbalneav> I think the objection was, if a good sysadmin SEPARATES /tmp on it's own filesystem, with the idea that users SHOULD NOT be able to write in /, then it's an issue.
13:15	as I understand it.
13:16	<vagrantc> sure
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13:16	<sbalneav> hm.
13:16	lemme try something, uno momento
13:19	<vagrantc> i wonder if it would be possible to use --move somehow ... i.e. lbmount does "mktemp -d" to get a mostly unpredictable directory, and then "mount --move"s that to /media/username
13:19	and then do the mounts there ...
13:19	that way /media/username would actually be in /tmp ... but still have a predictable location
13:19	kidn of ugly ...
13:20	but i think that would solve all the issues raised
13:20	would make lbmount.c more complicated again ...
13:21	<ogra> nobody but you raised any though :)
13:21	yet
13:21	<vagrantc> i have an outstanding bug report for a couple months now caused by multiple mount points
13:22	hrm. mount --move isn't working for me
13:27	<sbalneav> seems to for me, one sec
13:27	<sutula> sbalneav: Thanks for wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev very helpful btw
13:28	vagrantc: On Debian Etch, fuse module isn't loaded...is that documented somewhere?
13:28	<ogra> debian uses an initscript to load it
13:28	make sure that started
13:28	<vagrantc> sutula: i'm not sure ...
13:28	<sutula> ogra: I'll go looking for it
13:29	<vagrantc> i don't think anything loads fuse on etch ... there might be an initscript for lenny+
13:29	<ltsppbot> "sbalneav" pasted "mount --move" (25 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/383
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13:29	<sbalneav> yeah, seems to work here.
13:30	I'm using sshfs instead of ltspfs, but the principle's the same.
13:30	dir in /media/sbalneav/ is root owned, and it takes on the ownership of the mount, like it should.
13:31	<sutula> vagrantc: That's what I'm observing...I was thinking it might deserve a line in the README, but a new README won't do Etch users much good anyway :)
13:31	<ogra> does it properly switch back ownership ?
13:31	<sbalneav> If I umount, yep
13:31	<ogra> sounds good to me
13:32	<sbalneav> seems like a workable solution. mount --bind or mount --move makes no nevermind.
13:32	<vagrantc> definitely isn't working on debian etch
13:33	ah wait ...
13:34	<sbalneav> you have to make the dir in /media/userid first
13:34	<vagrantc> yes, seems to work with an actual mountpoint
13:35	but i still end up with two mountpoints
13:35	at least according to mount
13:36	mount --move apparently only works on actual mountpoints ... i.e. i can't "mount --move" a directory to another directory
13:39	mount --rbind $(mktemp -d) /media/username basically works
13:39	though i bet that will show up as a mountpoint of it's own
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13:41	<ogra> didnt mount have a parameter to skip mtab ?
13:41	with that you could hide it
13:41	it will still be in /proc/mounts
13:43	<vagrantc> that option apparently isn't compatible with --rbind
13:43	or --bind
13:44	though it does work with --move
13:45	<ogra> which doesnt gain you much as you want to hide the real mount, not the moved one
13:45	actually neither of the options you have solves your initial complaint either (only one mountpoint)
13:46	<vagrantc> well, using mktemp mostly mitigates my concern with predictible file locations in /tmp
13:46	it's not perfect, but it's 99% better
13:48	and it would reduce the number of extra visible mountpoints from one per device to one per thin client
13:48	<ogra> implement it then :)
13:48	<vagrantc> though i still prefer just mounting directly to /media/username ... which i already have implemented
13:49	:P
13:49	<ogra> (we could just use mktemp in the existing code though)
13:49	<vagrantc> no, the existing code requires that the thin-client has a predictible location to mount to
13:50	i guess you could get that information somehow ...
13:50	and cache it ...
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13:52	<vagrantc> remote_mount_dir=subprocess.call(['ssh','server','mktemp -d'])
13:52	or something like that
13:52	but you'd still have the double-mount issue (that ubuntu has a workaround for in gnome-vfs)
13:53	well, the mount --move stuff might work then ...
13:54	<Gadi> hey - anybody reporting ldm not returning to login screen upon logout (ie gnome-session not fully ending) recently?
13:55	<johnny> yes..
13:56	ask ogra
13:56	<ogra> Gadi, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ldm/+bug/173239
13:56	<Gadi> ah, thx
13:56	was searching for bug report
13:57	<ogra> the fixed package is hardy though
13:57	and i'm not 100% sure it fixes all issues ... need feedback :)
13:57	<Gadi> will do
13:58	<scrapbunny> ok super dumb question for you ogra. i installed firefox 3.0 but when i go to run it I am still running 2. what do i have to do for 3.0 to start?
13:58	<ogra> vagrantc, bte splitting out ldm was the best idea evah ... i owe you beer for being so immovable here :)
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13:58	<vagrantc> ogra: heh
13:58	<sutula> vagrantc: On the Etch loading of the fuse module, what's currently in backports has the initscript and seems to work fine (well...it worked once :-)
13:58	sudo apt-get install -t etch-backports fuse-utils
13:58	<ogra> scrapbunny, there is a "granparadiso" entry in your menu (in "internet"
13:58	)
13:59	<sutula> vagrantc: Is there a good place to put a pointer to that for people having problems on Etch?
13:59	* sutula supposes bugs.debian.org would work :)
14:00	* ogra mutters ... using an initscript here is soooo wrong :P
14:00	<scrapbunny> thanks, i think my brain is exploding from trying to add too much ubuntu and ltsp knowledge at once :)
14:01	<vagrantc> sutula: the fuse module needs to be loaded server-side, so there is definitely no init script in debian's ltsp that loads it
14:02	sutula: ah, i see ... grabbing fuse-utils from etch-backports ... different story
14:02	<sutula> vagrantc: Right...I'm just wondering where to leave tracks for other people trying to get it working
14:02	(in Etch)
14:02	<vagrantc> sutula: http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto in the section on the backports ?
14:03	sutula: but really, add you need is: echo fuse >> /etc/modules
14:03	all you need
14:03	<Q-FUNK> re
14:03	<ogra> also be careful with backported fuse ... newer fuse needs a control filesystem thats only supported by new kernels
14:04	(i.e. dnt use the latest and greatest from sid here)
14:05	<johnny> open source stuff is still moving too fast, makes it hard to stabilize..
14:05	<ogra> not if you stay within the same distro
14:05	scrapbunny has left #ltsp
14:05	<ogra> usually the backport guys do a good job in taking care for it
14:06	but you can indeed always backport stuff yourself ...
14:06	<sutula> ogra: Good point...the etch-backport version seemed to work and it's 2.6, compared to 2.7 in sid
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14:06	<ogra> yeah, 2.7 added that
14:07	* ogra is happy he hasnt to maintain that anymore ... i only added all the deltas to debian now my line manager has to take the packge and keep it that way :P
14:08	<Q-FUNK> :)
14:11	<ogra> Q-FUNK, heard te good amd news from Gadi ?
14:11	*the
14:11	<Q-FUNK> ogra: I sure did. this is definitely gonna help a lot of people. there's also a brazilian client that uses the LX on which the driver fails.
14:12	<ogra> i bet there are many people for which its broken
14:12	still i blame upstream for being slackish ...
14:13	<vagrantc> sutula: i'll add a note about the fuse module in wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto
14:13	<sutula> vagrantc: I was attempting to do that, but you can if it's easier for you :)
14:14	<vagrantc> sutula: also trying to correct some other problems....
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14:14	<vagrantc> sutula: i love how every wiki format is totally different
14:14	* sutula nods
14:15	* ogra goes afk
14:16	<sutula> vagrantc: I was going to add a pointer to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev, mention loading fuse, and adding users to the fuse group
14:16	(since it's a wiki, other stuff can be added as noticed)
14:19	<vagrantc> i cannot, for the life of me, figure out how to get wiki.debian.org to do pre-formatted text without line wrapping
14:19	<alekibango> vagrantc: hi, i am trying to use ltsp with debian sid and lenny and i have found some issues. have you tried to run ltsp server on lenny and use KDE ?
14:20	<vagrantc> alekibango: i haven't used KDE, no.
14:20	<alekibango> please can u try it for me? i cant get kde or fluxbox work
14:20	there are some obscure error
14:20	<vagrantc> i don't have any way to install KDE
14:21	at least, not right now
14:21	alekibango: what sort of error?
14:21	<alekibango> i have written small script which will automatically install and configure (hopefully all) ltsp server
14:21	so i tried it few times from scratch now
14:21	debian wiki docs are not very accurate :D
14:21	<vagrantc> works for me
14:22	<alekibango> well, maybe for you, but i started playing with ltsp few days ago
14:22	<vagrantc> well, give me useful information, and maybe i can figure out how to improve it
14:22	or, improve it yourself
14:22	<alekibango> vagrantc: ok, trying... wait
14:23	<vagrantc> but i cannot read minds
14:23	<alekibango> i understand...
14:23	do you think you would look on my desktop using tightvnc?
14:23	<vagrantc> even if i could read minds, it would be against my princepals
14:23	<alekibango> how long will you be there?
14:23	<vagrantc> alekibango: not sure
14:24	alekibango: and i'm not going to log into your desktop
14:24	<alekibango> i would show you all in few minutes...
14:24	i run server + clients in virtual boxes
14:24	<sutula> vagrantc: The Howto changes look great...thanks!
14:27	<alekibango> vagrantc: how long will you be there today?
14:27	aha, not sure :D
14:33	<vagrantc> alekibango: so, can you get any windowmanager to work?
14:34	alekibango: have you made any changes to anything? lts.conf ?
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14:34	<vagrantc> alekibango: how far do you get?
14:36	alekibango: what kind of "virtual boxes" are you using?
14:37	sutula: the ubuntu debugging has some differences (like when you make changes, having to re-build the whole image)
14:38	<sutula> vagrantc: Yeah...but it was a good set of things to check...maybe warn in your pointer?
14:39	<vagrantc> sutula: hard to really make a good warning ... don't trust ... some things
14:39	<sutula> :)
14:41	Drakeweb has joined #ltsp
14:41	<Drakeweb> hey guys, I'm having a spot of bother with my thin client desktop.
14:42	I cannot access any folders in "Places"
14:42	I think I have a problem with Nautilus, but I'm not sure how to trouble-shoot or fix.
14:42	Can you help?
14:44	<alekibango> vagrantc: please wait, i will tell you details later, now my server is turned off "D
14:44	virtualbox-ose
14:44	<vagrantc> i've been using virtualbox-ose myself a lot lately for ltsp
14:45	<alekibango> it has nice gui, especially if you use its mouse driver
14:46	vagrantc: i have written a script which you can run in some basic lenny or sid which will install ltsp server and configure it somehow (for the test)
14:46	would you like to take look? maybe even try it in vbox?
14:47	<vagrantc> alekibango: could you paste it to the pastebot?
14:47	!pastebot
14:47	<ltspbot> vagrantc: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
14:47	<alekibango> yes, ok, just please give me one hour :D
14:47	its hot here right now...
14:47	<vagrantc> alekibango: it would also be useful to me if you could describe some of the things it does
14:52	hrm. locale isn't getting properly configured anymore
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14:57	<sbalneav> Gadi: Still here?
14:57	<Gadi> present
14:58	<sbalneav> Planning on going out and getting your Chanuka ham? :)
14:58	See planet?
14:58	<Gadi> indeed - an additional one each night
14:58	;)
15:00	rcc has quit IRC
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15:01	<sbalneav> Closest I'd come to something like that is having English Pudding on Robbie Burns Day.
15:02	"Wee sleekit, timrous, cow'rin beastie, oh what a panic's in thy breastie..."
15:02	* sbalneav starts quoting burns
15:04	<Gadi> heh - I think that the Chanuka candle manufacturers are the first economic application of Euler's theorem for the summation of natural numbers
15:04	they always give you exactly as many as you need and not one more
15:05	<sbalneav> "Still thou art bless'd compare wi' me, the present only toucheth thee: but ach!, I backward cast my e'e o'r prospects dread, an' forward, though I canna see, I guess an' fear!"
15:06	s/dread/drear/
15:06	<jammcq> warren: ping
15:06	<warren> jammcq, pong
15:06	joebaker has joined #ltsp
15:07	<jammcq> hey, I got a reply from the Centaur (via) guy
15:07	he's got a suggestion and he'll also spend some time on the issue
15:07	what's your email addr, I'll forward the email
15:12	<joebaker> I have the attention of our local school district. I got it by asking for what their IT budget has been for the last 5 years.
15:12	Burlington, Wisconsin.
15:16	I have and Ubuntu system which we added edubuntu to. and ltsp-standalone-server.
15:16	A client machine pxeboot is coming up with a Kubuntu splash screen then sits at a BusyBox screen.
15:17	Maybe I need to do something to lts.conf?
15:17	7.10 is the version. This is a new LTSP installation.
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15:33	<joebaker> option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386";
15:33	Is that still correct in Ubuntu 7.10 LTSP 5?
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15:36	<sutula> joebaker: That's what's in my file...but I have Debian, not Ubuntu so not sure how to help you
15:43	<joebaker> Thanks!
15:43	Well, my thin clients arent' booting properly, so I'll just boot them into windows for the time being and use NoMachine to connect to the Linux terminal server.
15:44	<sutula> joebaker: Surely someone here can help, but maybe at a different time of day
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15:45	<sutula> joebaker: What are the client machines?
15:49	<joebaker> sutula: oh, sorry, they are running Win XP or Pxe boot. I'll get them to work with PXE boot sometime soon.
15:49	Thanks. I have to run now.
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16:19	<mcflopp1> hello
16:19	some one in here
16:27	<alekibango> mcflopp1: maybe, maybe not. you never know until you ask:D
16:27	<mcflopp1> hehe
16:28	i have a problem: the xorg.conf on the client is not the xorg.conf from the servers /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/ dir :(
16:28	what can this be?
16:28	it is ltsp 5
16:30	<alekibango> mcflopp1: you want to turn off autoconfig? which distro/version btw?
16:31	<mcflopp1> debian
16:31	buerots:~# uname -a
16:31	Linux buerots 2.6.18-5-486 #1 Tue Oct 2 23:38:54 UTC 2007 i686 GNU/Linux
16:32	<alekibango> so etch imho
16:32	<mcflopp1> buerots:~# cat /etc/debian_version
16:32	4.0
16:32	;)
16:32	i think this is all you need
16:32	or?
16:33	<alekibango> mcflopp1: i am on ltsp just few days, but imho its autoconfigured and you can define autoconfig command to be doing nothing
16:33	<mcflopp1> hmm and how i can do this?
16:33	<alekibango> or edit the config file which defines which files are rw
16:36	in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/default/ltsp-client-setup you can edit list of files which are rw
16:36	and i have seen somewhere mentioned X_CONFIGURE_COMMAND or something like this
16:37	<mcflopp1> if [ -n "$(which xdebconfigurator)" ]; then # xdebconfigurator is installed
16:37	bindfiles="$bindfiles /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/XF86Config-4"
16:37	this?
16:37	<alekibango> mcflopp1: i also fight with lack of docs
16:37	you have this in stable?
16:38	<mcflopp1> there are not so much doc ;)
16:38	yes
16:38	<Gadi> mcflopp1: try: XF86CONFIG_FILE = /etc/X11/xorg.conf
16:38	in your lts.conf
16:38	that should turn off autoconfig
16:39	<alekibango> good idea
16:39	thanks gadi i am still noob here
16:39	<mcflopp1> well ic try
16:39	<Gadi> np - the soluable problems are what keep me going
16:39	;)
16:40	<mcflopp1> ;)
16:40	so i go to reboot
16:40	<alekibango> mcflopp1: try virtualbox-ose to test ltsp
16:40	you reboot by ctrl-r
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16:43	<alekibango> oops
16:45	<mcflopp1> dont 3work
16:45	ok
16:45	<alekibango> ?
16:45	error: success
16:45	:D
16:45	<mcflopp1> hehe
16:46	no.. ok for: (23:40:31) alekibango: mcflopp1: try virtualbox-ose to test ltsp
16:46	[ws205]
16:46	XF86CONFIG_FILE = /etc/X11/xorg.conf.ws205
16:46	<alekibango> place this file inside of the client?
16:47	<mcflopp1> when i run Xorg -config /etc/X11/xorg.conf.ws205 it works..... but after boot the client it doesn't cause /etc/X11/xorg.conf is wrong
16:47	yes it is in the clients chroot
16:47	<alekibango> strange... i have similar problems myself :/
16:47	but with the other end of it
16:48	mcflopp1: make it xorg.conf and make it readonly
16:48	:D
16:48	it might say something about it during boot, but it will run imho
16:48	<mcflopp1> it is read only
16:48	<alekibango> i mean readonly in the config file
16:49	<mcflopp1> how that?
16:49	<alekibango> bindfiles ...
16:49	dont make it 'bindfile'
16:49	<mcflopp1> ok
16:49	<alekibango> mcflopp1: i am creating script which installs and configures ltsp noninteractively on debian sid/lenny
16:49	are u interested to try ?
16:50	i have some problems running kde
16:50	blackbox works for me
16:50	but kde or fluxbox -> some obscure error
16:50	<mcflopp1> hmmm first i must fix the problem
16:50	in 6 houres they must work
16:50	<alekibango> ic
16:51	remove it from the list of files ... in that config file
16:51	/opt/ltsp/i386/etc/default/ltsp-client-setup
16:51	<mcflopp1> ok
16:51	<alekibango> that will make it readonly as much as your nfs is
16:51	<mcflopp1> so reboot
16:51	;)
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17:02	<mcflopp1> yes
17:02	it works
17:02	great thank to you ;)
17:03	<wanie> cyberorg: hi! i now have installed opensuse 10.3 and kiwi ltsp, but after the command kiwi-ltsp-setup -s i got this error http://pastebin.com/m77dc3a0c
17:03	<mcflopp1> next try is to run dual head ;)
17:03	but not in this night
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17:09	<alekibango> mcflopp1: if you would like to test my debian lenny/sid skript
17:09	i would be more then happy
17:09	just run it on debian to get ltsp installed and configured
17:09	yet i have some issues with kde or fluxbox
17:10	<mcflopp1> hm... on a clean debian?
17:10	<alekibango> yes, for example a snapshot of debian netinst in a virtual box
17:11	i would love to improve my script to be more generic and useable
17:11	<mcflopp1> hmmm i install a debian 4 u ;)
17:11	but not today......
17:11	hmmm
17:12	<alekibango> ok :D i will be here few weeks :D
17:12	<mcflopp1> you can mail me the script...
17:12	<alekibango> if you will give email...
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17:12	<mcflopp1> info@rsp-design.de
17:12	;)
17:12	<alekibango> oh, be aware that you might get spammed right now :D
17:12	(not from me)
17:13	i will send it tomorrow, now debuggind something in it
17:13	its short, easy and should just work
17:14	<mcflopp1> i get enough spam
17:14	<alekibango> :D
17:14	<mcflopp1> so this little bit dont care
17:14	<alekibango> hehe
17:14	<mcflopp1> i need a camera :(
17:14	a old broken Canon EOS
17:14	:/
17:15	<johnny> i just read canoe for a second..
17:15	wanie has joined #ltsp
17:16	<mcflopp1> hehe
17:17	<johnny> old broken canoe
17:17	<mcflopp1> nono...
17:17	a mirror reflex camera ;)
17:26	<wanie> can someone help me with kiwi-ltsp instalation
17:26	after the command kiwi-ltsp-setup -s i got this error http://pastebin.com/m77dc3a0c
17:41	<sutula> mcflopp1: I was gone a while ago...looking over scrollback...someone mentioned using XF86CONFIG_FILE = ...
17:41	mcflopp1: I think that was renamed to X_CONF = ... in the version you're using (if the other didn't work)
17:44	<mcflopp1> okay
17:44	thank you sutula
17:45	i try this at the weekend......
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17:45	<mcflopp1> i must build a seperate config file, cause i need dual head..... then i must deliver a special xorg ;)
17:45	so i need the information :)
17:46	<sutula> mcflopp1: I created a special one with a different name, kept in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11 ...then used X_CONF = ...works great for me
17:47	note X_CONF = /etc/X11/xorg.conf.special (for example)
17:50	<alekibango> mcflopp1: see this one /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf -> in sid/lenny you might use CONFIGURE_X=false
17:51	<mcflopp1> yeah.............
17:51	http://gadgets.fosfor.se/hasselblad-h2d-39/
17:51	i want such a cam :p
17:51	but i haven't 30 000 euro's
17:52	thank you sutula and alekibango
18:02	<alekibango> np
18:02	so i finally runned kde :D
18:02	for first time, in ltsp
18:03	was only blackbox few days ago. problem was somewhere in lenny ... not sure where
18:03	sid is better a bit
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18:24	<lns_> Hey all, can anyone tell me where I can configure how LDM processes login requests? I want to have Gutsy's LDM behave like it did in Feisty - where if a user puts in a bad username/password, it simply kicks back to the user name, instead of trying to put in a password 3 times.
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20:41	<prpplague> jammcq: you alive?
20:44	twinprism_ has quit IRC
20:47	<jammcq> prpplague: hey
20:48	<prpplague> jammcq see the PR for our dev board yet?
20:48	<jammcq> umm, nope
20:49	<prpplague> jammcq hehe, http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6212564523.html
20:50	<jammcq> cool
20:50	* jammcq has to go
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20:50	<prpplague> doh
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23:57	<cyberorg> wanie_, you require i586 DVD media, what media are you using?