IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Channel log from 7 November 2008 (all times are UTC)

00:00	<twb> By analogy, it's fantastically useful to be confident that all configuration is in /etc (or at a pinch, /var).
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00:00	<twb> If you get crazy bastard stuff like "oops, FDS config is in /opt/fedora-ds/etc" then you have more pain to do backups.
00:01	rcy``: yarr, I am everywhere!
00:01	<rcy``> twb: sup
00:02	<twb> rcy``: nuffin' much.
00:02	Just trying to get some sucky wx/cairo stuff to work on xterms for a customer
00:03	<rcy``> sounds like fun
00:03	<twb> rcy``: they require SuSE 10
00:03	<rcy``> using kiwi ltsp then?
00:04	<twb> kiwi apparently requires SuSE 11
00:04	So this will probably be yet another seat-of-pants op
00:04	<rcy``> ah
00:04	<twb> I have ordered extra rolls of gaffer tape especially
00:05	<rcy``> can you not just throw a debian box down somewhere?
00:05	<twb> I may be able to trick them into doing that, we'll have to see.
00:05	<rcy``> just dont tell them
00:08	<twb> That's not sufficient; I also have to make sure they don't find out on their own
00:08	Probably that just means something like "chsh -s tcsh" as root
00:09	<johnny> and /etc/lsb-release :)
00:10	<twb> They won't know to look there
00:10	<johnny> well who knows where hte output goes to
00:10	<twb> Our customers are by definition, dumb. Otherwise, they wouldn't need to hire us
00:10	<johnny> in some random gui program..
00:11	hmm..
00:20	<rcy``> there should be some debian packages to make the system look like any other distro, or os
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00:35	<johnny> rcy``, you mean like that distro that is more macosx like?
00:35	directorywise
00:35	<rcy``> maybe, i dont really know
00:36	<twb> johnny: gobolinux?
00:37	<johnny> ueaj
00:37	err yeah
00:37	ok.. sleeptime..
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06:19	<Q-FUNK> well, that's it. today was my last day at Artec.
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06:32	<cliebow> Good morning BTS!
06:33	<Q-FUNK> heh
06:34	<cliebow> just passing info..The Kozy cove should be open for breakfast
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07:00	<sbalneav> Morning all!
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07:08	<cliebow> sbalneav:imchecking the old Kozy Kove for their times,,just on general principle
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07:20	<sbalneav> We're already here and Hackerating, where the heck are you?
07:21	<nubae> sbalneav: will u be blogging about it some place?
07:21	<Blinny> Sorry, I couldn't make it. And, my C is a bit rusty.
07:21	(;
07:23	<nubae> Blinny: only ldm is in C, IIRC
07:23	<johnny> better be careful where you leave it laying then
07:23	<sbalneav> I dunno. I suppose I could fire up my blog. Haven't updated it in 1.5 years
07:23	<nubae> probably left it out in the rain
07:23	<sbalneav> nubae: ldm's in C, cdpinger and ltspfs is too.
07:23	<nubae> heh, I would appreciate it
07:23	<chrisinajar> i like your decimal precision in blog updating times...
07:24	<nubae> as I am sure would the others who cant make it :-(
07:24	<stgraber> hey sbalneav
07:24	<johnny> like me
07:24	i have to keep the store open..
07:24	<chrisinajar> who else is going to be here?
07:25	<sbalneav> Warren's a pretty consistent blagger, I think
07:25	Me, personally, I usually don't consider my life interesting enough to talk about
07:25	<nubae> sbalneav: yeah but you are more ubuntu friendly ;-)
07:26	well, we'd hope it was about ltsp, rather than the intracacies of your every day meanderings ;-)
07:26	<sbalneav> day 14685: got up ate breakfast, went to work, came home went to sleep.
07:26	day 14686: see 14685
07:27	<nubae> lol
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07:30	<sbalneav> http://ltspthinclient.blogspot.com/
07:30	Surprised I remembered my password.
07:31	<nubae> sbalneav: which geek is u in the photo?
07:33	<stgraber> nubae: it's: fgiraldeau, sbalneav, eric and myself
07:33	it was at UDS-Boston
07:34	<nubae> ah cool
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07:43	<Q-FUNK> heh
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07:47	<nubae> why does samba still suck so much to get working right?
07:49	<jimcooncat> nubae: moving targets take more ammo :-)
07:49	but I very much agree with you
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08:03	<alkisg> I want to run an xterm upon ldm. I used to do that with "DISPLAY=:7 xterm" on a client console. But in intrepid it doesn't work, I get "This program is an suid-root program...". What gives?
08:03	I see that X is loaded using some authorization file, does this have anything to do with the problem? Can I re-use this authorization file to launch xterm?
08:05	* got it! export XAUTHORITY=...
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08:16	<Blinny> Anybody here have experience getting iTalc to work? Ideally with multiple servers?
08:16	<nubae> Blinny: its pretty straight forward, just install italc-master and italc-client
08:16	no need for anything on the desktops
08:17	<Blinny> nubae: Ok. I did that -- but when I run iTalc I only see one of my clients. Is there a special addressing requirement for adding new computers?
08:17	(and I shouldn't bother with adding the start_ica perl script and running from the chroot's /etc/rc.local ?)
08:17	<nubae> yes, localhost:11000 where the last 3 0s should be the last ip
08:18	no need for start_ica, at least I didnt need it
08:18	<Blinny> Ok great. Thanks.
08:18	And change localhost to otherservername for multiple servers?
08:18	<alkisg> Blinny, you should also transfer the keys for multiple servers
08:18	<nubae> yeah well I suppose that should work... not tried that, but on standalone computers, u can just put in their ip address
08:18	<Blinny> OK.
08:19	Transfer keys from where to where?
08:19	<alkisg> Blinny, man ica => look for the key paths
08:20	Both servers should have the same keys if the same clients are to be connected to them
08:20	<Blinny> OK, good. That's what I needed
08:20	I knew they were in /etc/italc
08:20	<alkisg> So transfer from server A to server B
08:20	<Blinny> Cool. Thank you very much.
08:20	<alkisg> np
08:20	<nubae> if u do get it working for multiple servers, add a little blurb to the ubuntu ltsp pages
08:21	<Blinny> You mean in addition to the _no_ blurb that is there now? ;)
08:21	<nubae> hehe, well there is something now on italc isnt there?
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08:22	<alkisg> nubae, yeah, a screenshot and some headers... :P
08:22	<nubae> heh, ok, then yeah add a full howto for italc :-)
08:22	<Blinny> Yeah. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/iTalc is pretty useless
08:23	So I don't need to copy keys to the chroot?
08:23	<alkisg> ...and I think there should be a seperate page for LTSP/iTalc, the setup is different
08:23	Blinny, stgraber proposes local italc installation (to the chroot)
08:23	It avoids some CPU usage (or network traffic, I'm not sure)
08:23	<nubae> youre right... its in the wrong place even, it should be here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/
08:23	<alkisg> But my TCs don't have enough RAM, I've never tried it
08:23	<Blinny> nubae: your link references mine
08:24	<nubae> I know
08:24	<alkisg> nubae, I think 2 pages are needed, a teacher may install iTalc without LTSP
08:24	<nubae> get rid of that link alltogether
08:24	yeah but then it shouldnt be on the ltsp page
08:24	UbuntuLTSP is for all LTSP related stuff
08:24	<Blinny> Let me make sure I can get it working first.
08:24	<nubae> the other italc should be left alone
08:25	italc link
08:25	<alkisg> yeap
08:25	<nubae> the 11000 thing trips people up
08:25	because in the official docos, it says 10000
08:27	can someone do me a favour and tell me if this brings up anything: http://84.112.76.128/moodle
08:27	<Blinny> Ok. I've got tons of those perl scripts flying around. Let me kill them all and start from scratch with a fresher chroot
08:27	<nubae> its my home computer, and I need to show it externally to someone
08:28	<Blinny> Waiting for...
08:29	Are you on a 2400 baud modem? (;
08:29	<nubae> heh, no
08:29	<alkisg> Blinny, if you put it to the chroot, the ports are different (=10000)
08:29	<Blinny> Looks like it's gonna time out
08:29	<nubae> firewall might still be blocking stuff... got a stupidly complex router
08:29	<Blinny> alkisg: I'm going for the easiest route first. I have a few spare CPU cycles on my server.
08:30	so I'll aptitude install and try adding clients. Be right back - need to reboot this client
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08:31	<alkisg> nubae, firefox timed out
08:32	nubae, did you ever get avahi autodetection working for a normal italc ltsp installation?
08:32	<nubae> normal, as in no ltsp?
08:33	<alkisg> no, normal as in ltsp :)
08:33	<nubae> sure
08:33	<alkisg> 11000 port and stuff
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08:33	<nubae> worked every time for me
08:34	<Blinny> Hrm. And what about servers with multiple NICs and multiple subnets?
08:34	<alkisg> What did you do to make it happen? It never worked for me (4 hardy and intrepid installations)
08:34	<nubae> just installing italc-master and italc-client
08:34	not in the chroot
08:34	<alkisg> Bah... I must be doing something wrong
08:34	(yeah, just a normal installation, not in the chroot)
08:34	<nubae> which version of italc?
08:34	I used .9
08:34	<alkisg> Intrepid = 1.0.9
08:35	<nubae> yeah thats the one
08:35	<alkisg> Blinny, I think these are ssh keys, so they may contain more than 1 known hosts
08:35	<Blinny> Perhaps new things have happened in Intrepid; I'm still on Hardy
08:35	Right, but when you're adding clients localhost:11??? doesn't work if you have multiple subnets
08:36	because the ??? could address multiple clients - see what I mean?
08:36	<nubae> probably not, unless u try ipofserver:11ipofclient
08:36	<alkisg> Blinny, no! :) (I don't see what you mean)
08:36	<nubae> or hostname:11last3digitsofclientip
08:37	localhost is localhost
08:37	can only have one subnet
08:37	<alkisg> Blinny, localhost is the same for any number of subnets you may have, no?
08:37	<Blinny> Say I have two subnets: 192.168.0.0 and 192.168.0.1
08:37	<nubae> u cant attache mutliple subnets for one ethernet interface
08:37	<alkisg> Blinny, use 127.0.0.1:11???
08:37	<Blinny> Clients in both. If I add client localhost:11005 that could be 192.168.0.5 or 192.168.1.5
08:37	<nubae> thats the same subnet
08:38	oh 1.1
08:38	then that would be on a different interface
08:38	<Blinny> They're on two NICs also. My server has four NICs.
08:38	<nubae> one is localhost
08:38	well each one has a hostname
08:38	<alkisg> Blinny, the real IPs are not used in iTalc
08:38	<Blinny> so I could do 192.168.0.1:11005 and 192.168.1.1:11005 ?
08:38	<alkisg> (unless you put it in the chroot)
08:38	<nubae> for example, but Id use hostname
08:38	<Blinny> instead of localhost?
08:38	<nubae> no, for extra servers
08:39	<Blinny> It's the same server.
08:39	<alkisg> Blinny, 127.0.0.1:11???
08:39	<Blinny> same server, multiple NICs
08:39	<nubae> sure, 127.0.0.1 is only attached to 1 nic
08:39	the others would probably be like 127.0.1.1
08:39	and so on
08:39	<alkisg> Guys, I'm not getting this. The port number is what matters
08:40	So with 127.0.0.1:11??? you can reach any client, no matter the subnet
08:40	<nubae> yes, port and server its connecting to
08:40	alkisg: not really
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08:40	<nubae> say u have 4 subnets
08:40	<alkisg> Blinny it talking about one server with multiple NICs, no?
08:40	<nubae> each has 256 client possibilities
08:40	<Blinny> if you're stripping off the 192.168.0 and 192.168.1 parts
08:40	alkisg: Yes.
08:41	<nubae> but u need to define the subnet its pointing to
08:41	thats why we do localhost:11000
08:41	and not just 11000
08:41	<alkisg> Blinny, I have 4 NICs in my lab, and iTalc worked just fine when I tried subnetting
08:41	*in my server
08:42	<nubae> subnetting how?
08:42	<alkisg> nubae, why do you need to define any ips different from 127.0.0.1 to iTalc?
08:42	iTalc works locally, it doesn't transfer any data over the network
08:42	<Blinny> Ok. So forget anything but localhost
08:42	<nubae> but say u have italy running on one server
08:42	italc
08:43	<Blinny> What are the ??? then for two clients 192.168.0.15 and 192.168.1.15 both on the same server
08:43	<nubae> oh wait... same server
08:43	never mind...
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08:43	<Blinny> How would you add both clients with one IP 192.168.0.15 and another 192.168.1.15
08:44	<alkisg> Blinny, ok, I got what you mean. Maybe ica will refuse to start?
08:44	(for the second client)
08:44	<nubae> or u can use the hostname of that card
08:44	<johnny> uggh
08:44	maybe you guys can help with this..
08:44	AUDIT: client $num rjected from local host
08:44	<nubae> anyway, blinny, experiment and let us know, I think we just dont know the answer :-)
08:44	<johnny> and my mouse isn't working
08:44	<alkisg> Blinny, you could modify ica-launcher to add the 3rd byte of the IP, e.g. 12015 for the second client
08:45	<johnny> the ctrl + alt + F1 shortcut works, but i can't type either
08:45	<nubae> ah thats an idea
08:45	<johnny> in the gdm login field
08:45	<Blinny> but then I couldn't go higher than 99
08:45	<nubae> johnny: I've had that happen, turned out my permissions were wrong somewhere
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08:45	<nubae> but cant remember how I fixed it
08:45	<johnny> somewhere? :)
08:45	lol
08:45	thanks :)
08:45	lol
08:45	<nubae> hehe
08:46	<alkisg> Blinny, 3rdbyte * 256 + 4th byte
08:46	<nubae> /tmp or /home or /root or some such
08:46	<Blinny> Ok. Starting from scratch and purging libitalc italc-client and italc-master
08:46	<nubae> alkisg: in theory one should be able to do 127.0.1.1:11015
08:47	and 127.0.0.1:11015
08:47	<alkisg> nubae, I got what you were talking about. I don't know that much about tcp/ip and ports, I don't know what would happen if the same port is open on 2 different nics of the server
08:48	But I doubt ica-laucher would work ok with that
08:48	<Blinny> OK. installed libitalc italc-client and italc-master
08:48	started up, no autodetected computers
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08:49	<alkisg> nubae, 127.0.0.1 is the same with 127.0.1.1 in every way, no? Can someone install a service to 127.0.0.1:11000 that doesn't answer to 127.0.1.1:11000?
08:49	<Blinny> added localhost:11015 for client 192.168.1.15 with MAC and says 'host is unreachable'
08:50	<nubae> right because thats probably not localhost
08:50	<Blinny> AFAIK 127.0.0.0/8 is the same
08:50	<nubae> check your /etc/hosts
08:50	<alkisg> Blinny, you have to login to the client first
08:50	<Blinny> alkisg: 192.168.1.15 is the client I'm logged in from. Let me log out & back in
08:50	brb
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08:50	<alkisg> no
08:50	...too late
08:51	A restart is needed somewhere... I don't remember where, maybe on the server?
08:51	<nubae> i have 127.0.0.1 and localhost and 127.0.1.1 homeserve
08:51	in /etc/hosts
08:51	but maybe I'M doing something wrong :-)
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08:52	<nubae> also all my clients are defined in /etc/hosts
08:52	ok, see what u mean alkisg, shouldnt make a difference, you're right
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08:53	<Blinny> Bummer. No love.
08:53	<alkisg> I saw ahavi "advertisements" for each italc clients, but I never got it to work
08:53	Blinny, try 10015
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08:53	<Blinny> alkisg: That worked.
08:53	<nubae> hah.. damn i got it confused it is 10000 for ltsp
08:54	11000 in normal desktop mode
08:54	<Blinny> alkisg: So this shows the desktop of client 192.168.1.15
08:54	Excellent. How would I then show the desktop of 192.168.0.15 :)
08:54	<alkisg> Blinny, ok, and what about 192.168.0.15??? :)
08:55	<johnny> what is the privileges of the contents of /var/lib/gdm ?
08:55	<alkisg> I think ica-launcher will refuse to start
08:55	<johnny> uggh..
08:55	<Blinny> johnny: drwxrwx--T
08:55	(Hardy Heron)
08:56	<johnny> can you give me more info
08:56	like the directory and contents/
08:56	and the usernames and groups
08:56	<Blinny> 192.168.1.1:10015 also works for 192.168.1.15 (where 192.168.1.1 is the server's IP)
08:57	<nubae> so try 192.168.0.1
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08:57	<Blinny> I think I need someone from that subnet to log out and log in, yes?
08:57	Cannot operate on non-logged in computers?
08:57	<nubae> right
08:57	<johnny> i could swear that it works if i install the nvidia-driver
08:57	which is weird
08:58	maybe it's not related
08:58	<nubae> yeah
08:58	<Blinny> OK. All my clients logged in before I did the purge/install of italc
08:58	<nubae> could be X related then
08:58	Blinny: when u do the sshkeys, u have to update the image
08:59	well if its using chroot only I guess
08:59	* nubae shuts up...
08:59	<alkisg> Blinny, to work without logging in you have to install it to the chroot
09:00	<cliebow_> ogra:whta did we do to tell the thin client mac to look for nbdroot on 2001..i altered ineted.conf..but the kernel needs to know..
09:01	<alkisg> Blinny, change this line of ica-laucher: PORT=`echo $LTSP_CLIENT \| awk -F . '{print \$4}'`
09:01	<Blinny> I haven't done anything in the chroot yet
09:01	<nubae> can someone try nubae.selfip.com/moodle
09:01	<alkisg> so it doesn't work without logging in. :)
09:01	<Blinny> For now that's fine with me.
09:01	<alkisg> about ica-laucher, to take $3 into account
09:01	<Blinny> I think the wiki should have two sections then - one for installing to chroot, one for installing to server
09:02	<alkisg> Blinny, both 192.168.0.15 and 192.168.1.15 work simultaneously?
09:02	* nubae hopes Blinny can remember all this to put into the ubuntu wiki :D
09:02	<johnny> uggh
09:02	<Blinny> alkisg: I haven't had a 192.168.0.15 log in yet.
09:02	<johnny> my stuff is totally screwed
09:02	i can't even open the store :(
09:02	guess it's paper and pen for a bit
09:02	<nubae> rebuild the image??
09:02	<Blinny> alkisg: For me the wiki is easy:
09:02	sudo aptitude install libitalc italc-client italc-master; Add SERVERIP:10??? where ??? is the last 3 digits of the client IP
09:02	<alkisg> Blinny, yeah, piece of cake... :)
09:03	<Blinny> Let me go start up a client over there.
09:03	One second - running to different building
09:03	<nubae> ^^ can someone try http://nubae.selfip.com:81/moodle
09:03	<alkisg> eeek...
09:03	<cliebow_> nubae:just a sec
09:03	<alkisg> nubae, doesn't look good...
09:03	about to timeout again
09:03	<nubae> with port 81 also not?
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09:04	<nubae> darn... stupid router...
09:04	<cliebow_> not good here..
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09:05	<alkisg> I wonder why avahi advertizing is needed for iTalc when it is used in a normal (=no chroot) LTSP setup... ps aux gives all the logged on clients
09:05	<stgraber> it's not needed, it's just not turned of :)
09:06	and it makes it work with workstation outside of the ltsp server
09:06	<johnny> weird
09:06	it's telling me that it's doing stuff that isn't in my config file
09:06	like loading DRI
09:06	even though i don't have a capable card without nvidia driver
09:07	<alkisg> stgraber, thanks for the confirmation! I thought it was weird... :)
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09:09	<nubae> someone try now http://nubae.selfip.com/moodle
09:09	<alkisg> nubae, better!
09:09	You don't have permission to access /moodle on this server.
09:09	<nubae> forbidden
09:09	cool
09:10	stupid router only allows 4 mapped ports...
09:11	<Blinny> 192.168.0.1:10??? works also
09:11	YEA!
09:12	<nubae> so its for different subnets like we said?
09:12	subnet:10000 and subnet2:10000 ?
09:12	<alkisg> Blinny, both of them logged on simultaneously?
09:14	<nubae> http://nubae.selfip.com/moodle/
09:14	wroks now?
09:14	works
09:14	<alkisg> nubae, yeap
09:15	Duh... an S3 virge on a lab with Celerons 600 gives 30 fps. The same card on another lab with Celerons 450 gives 3 fps!!! Not only with video, it's slow even with scrolling text in gedit or MS notepad! It's not a CPU problem, something's wrong with the boards of the second lab... :'( arrrggg...
09:16	<Blinny> Yes, works.
09:16	<alkisg> cool!
09:17	<Blinny> using address 192.168.1.1:10015 and 192.160.0.1:10015
09:17	davidj has joined #ltsp
09:18	<monteslu> warren, you arround?
09:18	<Blinny> Unfortunately it is horrifically slow, even on 100MB client NICs on a 1000MB server NIC & switch
09:18	<monteslu> ldm-scritp is taking over 3 minutes to run on my thin clients
09:18	this makes the login horribly long
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09:19	<alkisg> Blinny, you mean like in video broadcasting or in just displaying a demo screen of the server?
09:19	<Blinny> remote control of a client - ~30 seconds between screen refreshes
09:19	<johnny> going back to the old school way of configuring X fixed the problem
09:19	<nubae> italc is not fast... thats normal
09:19	<johnny> :(
09:19	<warren> monteslu: are you sure it isn't a network problem?
09:19	<johnny> this makes me sad
09:19	<nubae> unless u have gigabit
09:19	I guess
09:20	<monteslu> warren, I am not
09:20	<johnny> but whatever.. it works
09:20	now i need to make sound work
09:20	jammcq_ has joined #ltsp
09:20	<warren> monteslu: if you plug one client directly into the server, same problem?
09:20	<jammcq_> hey all
09:20	<monteslu> but why is the cpu pegged on that script
09:20	<nubae> johnny: with restricted drivers?
09:20	<johnny> no restricted drivers
09:20	<alkisg> Blinny, something's wrong, 30 seconds is too much... 5 seconds I think is about normal
09:20	<johnny> if i want glx on the clients.. can't use restricted drivers
09:20	iirc
09:20	<nubae> well, at least thas a plus right :-)
09:20	<johnny> restricted on the server that is..
09:20	<nubae> right
09:20	<Blinny> Ah wait - came back now
09:20	<johnny> hmm.. i wish i had another machine to run ltsp on
09:21	<warren> monteslu: I've seen that and other issues before, it was always a problem with the switch or cables
09:21	<johnny> or another to run the POS software even .
09:21	* nubae wishes he had a bunch of test servers to run LTSP on
09:21	<johnny> i'm gonna have some pics of my terminals soon tho :)
09:21	and my store :)
09:21	<monteslu> warren, I'll give that a shot now
09:22	<nubae> today I passed by a second hand shop.... they had a motherboard with 128mb ram + ethernet for 6.99 €, a monitor for €19.99 and keyboard and mouse for little more
09:22	that means a thin client could be built for under 40€
09:22	well, getting the box is the hard part
09:22	<Blinny> Is there something that requires clicks to be doubleclicks through iTalc?
09:23	* alkisg doesn't know, always used gnome or windows with italc
09:24	<Blinny> Yeah - something with mouse clicks isn't quite right
09:24	They're not being passed through to the client correctly
09:25	siki has quit IRC
09:25	<Blinny> Mouseovers bring up the gnome panel popups but I can't click on the logout/shutdown button or the menus
09:26	<alkisg> Blinny, try closing one of these 2 clients
09:26	cosf has joined #ltsp
09:26	<alkisg> *logging off
09:27	<Blinny> No same effect
09:27	dtrask has joined #ltsp
09:27	<Blinny> I even double-clicked the client name in the left taskbar to disconnect fully, then reconnect, then re-remote controlled.
09:27	Hrm.
09:28	<dtrask> Hey!
09:28	<cliebow_> Ho!
09:28	<Blinny> D'oh!
09:29	closing iTalc and re-opening lost all the computers I'd added
09:29	<dtrask> hey if you guys need anything like spare computers...servers...laptops....access points...switches....pizza...beer....scotch....let me know and I'll bring it
09:29	<jammcq_> dtrask: hey
09:29	Basti_dash has joined #ltsp
09:29	<jammcq_> we've got awesome connectivity here, thanks to Warren
09:29	<ltsppbot> "cliebow" pasted "Introduction: ==== Jim McQuill" (33 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/94
09:30	Basti_dash has quit IRC
09:30	<cliebow_> dtrask: this is what we are talking about
09:30	<dtrask> jammcq_: What'd Warren do to make it awesome?
09:30	<cliebow_> rewired the whole place
09:30	<warren> not really
09:30	<cliebow_> ;-]
09:31	<warren> I told the owner what to do, and he & son-in-law rewired it last night in the dark
09:31	<chrisinajar> the best time to do rewiring...
09:31	<warren> also figured out that the router they have in the office is crap, so they're buying new hardware to make it more reliable
09:31	<cliebow_> weehee!
09:32	<Blinny> It _looks_ like the button is being depressed but nothing comes up
09:32	<dtrask> very cool...talked to Dave yesterday...he's excited to have us all there again :-)
09:32	He get's a network upgrade each time ;-)
09:33	<jammcq_> dtrask: what time do you plan on coming?
09:33	<warren> I told him how to wire the rest of the motel and his house, 5 or 6 routers in total, all connected with ethernet.
09:35	<dtrask> late....I'll be arriving close to midnight or maybe a little earlier
09:35	<ninkendo> anyone with a working setup want to pastebin their /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf?
09:35	mine seems to be not working
09:36	spectra has joined #ltsp
09:36	<ninkendo> http://arslinux.pastebin.ca/1247910
09:36	<dtrask> jammcq_: I get to leave here around 10 pm....then depending on how much beer and pizza I have to pick up.... ;-)
09:36	<jammcq_> we'll prolly have plenty of both long before you get here
09:37	<dtrask> jammcq_: LOL
09:37	jammcq_: I'll call when I leave just to make sure....that is if anyone can still converse with me.. ;-)
09:37	<Blinny> Looks like starting iTalc wipes out ~/.italc settings every time. Should this be?
09:38	<monteslu> warren, plugging directly to the server doesn't seem to be working, I think I need to use another stand alone switch in the middel or make a crossover. There's alot of people logged in so i think I'll do that after school
09:38	warren, in the meantime, is there any debuggin i can do on ldm-script to find the exact line that is taking long?
09:39	DonSilver has joined #ltsp
09:39	<monteslu> I guess i could just echo messages and pipe them to the /var/log/something huh?
09:39	<warren> sounds like you have 100mbit interface on the server?
09:39	<ltsppbot> "Blinny" pasted "initramfs.conf" (52 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/95
09:39	<alkisg> Blinny, no, it's a bug
09:39	<monteslu> nope gb
09:40	clients are all 10/100
09:40	<Blinny> alkisg: Wow. Ok, yuck. That's a pain when you have 50 terminals... but I guess for now I can connect when-needed
09:40	alkisg: Where are those bugs listed?
09:40	<warren> monteslu: was this working well before with the same hardware but different software?
09:40	<monteslu> warren, yup
09:40	<dtrask> jammcq_: where'd ya'll go for breakfast?
09:40	<alkisg> Blinny, I just saw this in intrepid, it wasn't there before
09:40	<monteslu> been using ltsp for 6 or 7 years now
09:40	<Blinny> I'm in Hardy
09:41	<monteslu> this is the first time I've seen this long login
09:41	<alkisg> Blinny, when I used Hardy it still had 1.0.7... it has 1.0.9 now?
09:41	<ninkendo> Blinny: ah, nm, I was looking at my update-initramfs.conf, and not my intramfs.conf, my initramfs.conf looks like yours
09:42	<Blinny> alkisg: I added the http://ppa.launchpad.net/edubuntu-italc-devel/ubuntu source
09:42	<alkisg> Blinny, try rm ~/.italc - or make a copy of globalconfig.xml and personalconfig.xml while you added the clients and italc is still running
09:42	* ninkendo is still stumped as to why eth0 is not being found on his thin client
09:42	Q-FUNK has quit IRC
09:42	<Blinny> alkisg: Right. Let me try the plain sources from hardy without the other edubuntu repo
09:42	<jammcq_> dtrask: donuts and coffee at the hotel
09:43	tomorrow, we'll do that place in bar harbor
09:43	seemed to be some interest in that
09:44	<dtrask> jammcq_: Yay! Love Jordans....been there several times already this year...never tire of it ;-)
09:44	<monteslu> warren, /usr/share on the chroot is read only?
09:44	<ninkendo> I have an intel 82562 onboard card in here (should be using the e100 driver), and ipconfig is not finding any cards on bootup... LTSP 5 on hardy, stock 2.6.24-21-generic kernel with up-to-date initrd
09:44	<monteslu> i want to add some debugging to ldm-script, do i have to rebuild the client for each change?
09:45	<alkisg> heh... scrolling text in gedit does take 100% CPU in a 450 Pentium client
09:45	<Blinny> brb
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09:47	<warren> monteslu: the entire chroot is read-only from the client's perspective
09:47	<monteslu> that makes it difficult then :)
09:48	but id does log to /var
09:48	<warren> monteslu: /opt/ltsp/i386 is where the chroot lives, you can edit things in there
09:48	<nubae> monteslu: or set to nfs
09:48	<warren> monteslu: and you are probably using NFS root mode, so no need to build any images after you edit things
09:48	nubae: nfs is default in fedora
09:48	<nubae> ah
09:48	<warren> you can switch to nbd easily if you want
09:48	<monteslu> naw, nbd gave me hell on ubuntu
09:49	<nubae> once the environment is built it is faster
09:49	but for development, its hell indeed
09:50	so u can still set nfs to be read/write
09:51	Blinny has joined #ltsp
09:51	<Blinny> Okay, awesome. With the vanilla Hardy .debs it Just Works
09:51	(with the exception of saved states on iTalc quit)
09:51	CAN-o-SPAM has quit IRC
09:52	* Blinny goes off to edit the wiki
09:54	chrisinajar has quit IRC
09:56	<Blinny> Now should I really create an LTSP-specific wiki page for iTalc and not reference wiki.ubuntu.com/iTalc ?
09:57	<fgiraldeau> hi all
09:58	<alkisg> Blinny, yeah! :)
09:58	cosf has quit IRC
09:58	<johnny> nubae, you use habari?
09:58	i have it installed right now.. trying to set it up myself..
09:59	<monteslu> warren, you sure all i have to do is edit files in /opt/ltsp/i386?
09:59	script didnt get my changes when i restarted a client
10:01	nevermind it did
10:01	it just didn't update the my log file
10:01	<Blinny> Ok.
10:01	<monteslu> so i guess /var/log is read only too ?
10:01	on the client
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10:02	<Blinny> Is there a bug page for not-saving .italc that I can reference in the wiki?
10:03	<alkisg> Blinny, I didn't see any, but I got mine to save configuration files,
10:03	I don't remember what I did though, some deleting, some manual editing... then it just worked
10:03	<Blinny> heh
10:03	I'll leave that part of the wiki up to you, then (;
10:04	<alkisg> Blinny, you should delete ~/.italc anyway, because it contains 1.0.9 version files and now you have 1.0.7
10:04	Maybe it'll work if it gets recreated
10:06	<nubae> johnny: I do
10:06	its a super little piece of soft
10:06	very easy to manage and add stuff to
10:07	alkisg: that would be pretty important, I couldnt figure out how to save settings either
10:09	<monteslu> hmmm.... I had updates running in the this morning, and ldminfod was updated....
10:09	things are logging in faster now, magically
10:09	maybe there was a fix
10:10	or maybe my script is bombing in just the right way :)
10:10	i'm replacing it with the backup and trying again
10:11	<alkisg> nubae, I'll try to reproduce how I did it some time later
10:11	<monteslu> ok, logins have gone from 3-4 minutes, down to about 30 seconds
10:11	I'm confused
10:11	<dtrask> monteslu: be thankful
10:11	:-)
10:11	<monteslu> yes, that too!
10:12	hope it sticks
10:13	I would like to be better able to debug this stuff though, and get a better knowledge of everything that happens with ltsp5
10:13	<dtrask> monteslu: agreed
10:14	<monteslu> no i gotta figure out how to kill the bridge thing and get this back on one NIC
10:14	Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
10:15	<monteslu> also how to run localapps for firefox & flash, and figure a way to log which kids are going to which sites
10:15	should be a little easier now that i can possibly be tied to a terminal ip
10:16	s/i/it
10:17	<dtrask> monteslu: logging which sites is easy if you do proxy authentication....
10:17	<monteslu> dtrask, not a bad idea. I'm already using ipcop for a filter. I guess I could just make it a captive portal
10:17	<Blinny> OK, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/iTalc created
10:18	<monteslu> as long as i can do an ACL for updates
10:19	<nubae> warren is ubuntu the only distro doing nbd then?
10:19	<dtrask> monteslu: I use IPCop and can tie it to my Samba/LDAP server (you can use AD or whatever you use) and simply use authentication in such a way that when a kid clicks Firefox...they are challenged to log in...now log files are bound to the username
10:20	<nubae> Blinny: nice :-)
10:21	<warren> nubae: fedora's nbd works great
10:21	nubae: we just don't do it by default
10:21	<nubae> yeah neither does debian
10:21	<Blinny> Let me know if you have suggestions for improvements. Or make them yourself! (;
10:21	<monteslu> dtrask, my smbldap is no more :(
10:21	<nubae> so its just ubuntu doing that? Suse uses kiwi, and I guess gentoo is nfs too
10:22	<dtrask> monteslu: what are you using for auth?
10:22	<monteslu> I've been thinking about doing another, though I really miss the script
10:22	dtrask, its all local
10:22	one big box right now
10:22	<dtrask> aah
10:22	<monteslu> 8core amd64 16gb
10:22	~70 workstations
10:22	<dtrask> monteslu: do you use enforced passwords or do the users pick their own?
10:22	<monteslu> though i have two of these boxes
10:23	dtrask, we assign them
10:23	<dtrask> monteslu: me too...so you have a list of users and pw's....you can simply put them in the IPCop box
10:23	<nubae> monteslu: wow thats a lot of ram...
10:24	<dtrask> and use the IPCop local auth....and do proxy auth that way
10:24	<monteslu> dtrask, cool stuff
10:24	nubae, yeah, and they were cheap too
10:24	about 4K a piece
10:24	with raid5
10:24	<dtrask> monteslu: one of the big benefits of assigned passwords....that and not having to reset forgotten ones all the time
10:24	staffencasa has joined #ltsp
10:25	<monteslu> dtrask, also, when i moved from ubuntu back to fedora, i just copied the homes, rand a create user script, and had the lab teacher set the passwords
10:26	* alkisg just found out that 16 bit color depth in s3virge = 10 times faster than 24 bit....
10:26	<nubae> monteslu: I'm curious, whats your feeling buntu vs fedora?
10:27	mccann has joined #ltsp
10:27	<nubae> for ltsp that is
10:27	<dtrask> monteslu: curious...not insinuating anything....why'd you switch?
10:27	<monteslu> nubae, well... I liked 7.04
10:27	but 8.04 gave me lots of problems
10:27	<dtrask> monteslu: you feel the ltsp implementation is better in Fedora?
10:27	<monteslu> i could never get things working right
10:28	<nubae> yeah that shouldnt have been a LTS
10:28	<monteslu> I've been a redhat user for 10 years
10:28	and i wanted to go back to fedora on ltsp
10:28	but k12ltsp died
10:28	<nubae> the first day was problems with the entire firefox debacle, and then just bug after bug
10:28	<monteslu> then as soon as i heard warrend picked it back up, i was all over it
10:28	<nubae> :-)
10:29	<monteslu> dtrask, i dont know if its better, but things seem to be working. And I'm just more comfortable with the system
10:29	i cant wait for a centos6 based version
10:29	I'll have that thing here for the next couple of years and hopefully it just works :)
10:30	there's also a factor of wanting to help out, with testing if nothing else...
10:31	lots of people using ubuntu, and it seemed like warren needed testers
10:31	<dtrask> monteslu: I hear ya'
10:32	<nubae> in the end it should all be quite similar
10:32	<dtrask> monteslu: I used to be a dyed in the wool Fedora guy....now I'm used to Ubuntu....but...now I use Resara which is kinda' Kubuntu based. I'm very encouraged and happy with what Warren and the Fedora guys are doing.
10:32	<nubae> I mean its an upstream project
10:33	<dtrask> looking forward to seeing Warren and the guys again this evening
10:33	:-)
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10:45	<ninkendo> so what exactly does ltsp-update-kernels do, aside from copy the kernels to the tftp root directory?
10:45	I'm trying to debug why LTSP isn't seeing my NIC on bootup... and when I chroot into the ltsp chroot, manually run update-initramfs, then copy the initramfs over, I get a certain set of problems
10:46	but when I do ltsp-update-kernels, I get an entirely different set of problsm
10:46	*problems
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10:47	<ninkendo> specifically, when I manually build my initramfs, it sees my NIC, but doesn't mount the NBD root properly. When I run ltsp-update-kernels, it doesn't see the NIC, and kernel panics trying to read /tmp/net-eth0.conf
10:53	<_UsUrPeR_> has anyone had any success installing an nvidia driver in chroot? There's a discrepancy between the kernels (server is running i686 while client is running i586) and it's causing installation problems with ./nvidia-installer
11:03	<johnny> you can make it think you're using whatever via setarch
11:03	setarch <whatever> chroot /path
11:05	setarch i586 chroot /path/to/ltsp
11:05	_UsUrPeR_, ?
11:05	<_UsUrPeR_> got it :P
11:05	had to uninstall the drivers from the server before I could install them in chroot
11:06	then back to the server afterwards
11:06	PITA
11:06	<johnny> that's what you get
11:06	for having nvidia
11:06	* johnny hate nvidia
11:06	<_UsUrPeR_> are you an ATI man?
11:06	<johnny> or intel
11:06	anything with proper free drivers :)
11:07	are all your clients nvidia?
11:07	<_UsUrPeR_> My last ATI was a radeon 9800 pro, and it's support in hardy was atrocious. At least, while I used it.
11:07	<johnny> if so.. you'll get lucky
11:07	<_UsUrPeR_> no, this is for a customer
11:08	<johnny> whatever
11:08	<_UsUrPeR_> and all his clients use nvidia cards
11:08	<johnny> aha
11:08	then you're lucky
11:08	any other wonky combinations with non free drivers are likely to cause trouble
11:08	due to the way they ati and nvidia nonfree driveres handle libGL
11:12	<_UsUrPeR_> oh
11:12	yeah, I should probably thank my lucky stars for that one :)
11:14	<nubae> I just bought a ati hd3850, and its beautiful, though ubuntu didnt detect it properly at first
11:14	needs non-free drivers
11:15	but its well priced and does the job
11:15	<alkisg> johnny, what if someone has nvidia everywhere but 64bit OS on the server and 32bit on the chroot?
11:17	<johnny> i have no idea
11:17	i don't think it is a problem
11:17	<_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: I just worked through the kernel discrepancy thing
11:17	if that's what you're talking about...
11:18	<alkisg> _UsUrPeR_, something like that, yes
11:18	<johnny> sure.. but both of yours were 32bit
11:18	<_UsUrPeR_> no, server was 64-bit
11:18	<alkisg> Did it work OK?
11:18	<_UsUrPeR_> though it was a non-issue because the kernels were different anyway. Had to work past that too
11:19	alkisg: I got it to install on the chroot...
11:19	still working on getting client to boot
11:19	server's back up though
11:19	nice
11:19	got it
11:19	<alkisg> ...and use it to see if it does work ok... :)
11:19	<_UsUrPeR_> yes. works fine
11:19	<johnny> the weather is great here right now..
11:19	<alkisg> You still have to run some GL apps to see if it's ok
11:19	<_UsUrPeR_> there's a script I used to get it working. Quite useful. Do you need help right now? I have a minute
11:19	true
11:19	though...
11:20	<alkisg> _UsUrPeR_, no, not right now, just for the future, I'll need it sometime....
11:21	<_UsUrPeR_> ok, well one thing that I just figured out
11:21	the nvidia installer will put an xorg.conf file in
11:22	and under section "device" it calls for the driver "nvidia"
11:22	except for the driver's name is "nv"
11:22	I had to switch the driver name to nv
11:22	<alkisg> _UsUrPeR_, nv is the non-commercial driver
11:22	it's used even if you don't install anything
11:22	and it doesn't have much acceleration
11:23	<_UsUrPeR_> according to xorg's log, it's using the proper modules...
11:23	I'll need to check some 3d stuff for sure :)
11:23	* _UsUrPeR_ installs glxgears
11:23	<Q-FUNK> http://q-funk.blogspot.com/2008/11/available-for-new-job.html
11:24	<jimcooncat> working on pxelinux.cfg
11:26	<_UsUrPeR_> q-funk: holy crap
11:26	<Q-FUNK> indeed
11:26	<nubae> Q-FUNK: I wish you luck... the education market is soon booming... just have to keep spirits high... in these time of economic crisis...
11:26	<_UsUrPeR_> congratulations? Are they in order? I can't really tell...
11:28	<jimcooncat> working on pxelinux.cfg, "C0A80025 the hexadecimal form of the client's IP address". How do I calculate this? example 10.0.0.202
11:28	<nubae> Q-FUNK: did u see shogunx project?
11:28	http://www.linux.com/feature/151362
11:28	might be opportunities there
11:29	<alkisg> jimcooncat, gnome-calculator for each byte? e.g. 10 => 0A
11:30	<jimcooncat> alkisg: i guess so. hoping for an easier way. maybe there's a calculator online, I'll look
11:30	<alkisg> jimcooncat, 0A0000CA
11:30	it only takes some seconds
11:31	<jimcooncat> thanks alkisg! Actually i found one, and your answer matches. So I guess I can trust them
11:32	oh, I see now how you did that
11:32	<alkisg> yeap, you only had to convert 202 to hex
11:32	Gadi has left #ltsp
11:36	<nubae> anyone familiar with mahara eportfolio
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11:37	<alkisg> jimcooncat, just curious, what do you want to do with that? (maybe IPAPPEND 3 will be useful for you)
11:37	<dtrask> back
11:37	jammcq_: when is Gadi coming up?
11:40	vagrantc has joined #ltsp
11:41	<jimcooncat> alkisg: pxelinux will select a configuration based on MAC, a full or partial IP address, or a default. I want different ones for different computers.
11:42	alkisg: I originally had it based on MAC address, but I'm switching to IP address as I keep changing my mind which NIC to use.
11:43	<alkisg> jimcooncat, I see, ty
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11:44	<jimcooncat> alkisg: what is IPAPPEND 3?
11:45	<alkisg> jimcooncat, if you needed a couple of configuration for all of your PCs, you could eg. put a 0A file (for 10.x.x.x.) and put IPAPPEND 3 to pass the ip back to the kernel, so no second dhcp request would be made... Never mind, that's why I use these files, your needs are different
11:47	<jimcooncat> oh! that would be helpful, my second dhcp request hangs half the time (on netboot installs, haven't tried ltsp with this config)
11:48	<alkisg> jimcooncat, you lose the dhcp assigned hostname this way, and lts.conf path will be "changed" to /var/lib/tftpboot
11:48	<vagrantc> sbalneav: looks like you've got another $PPID in commit log for all eternity :)
11:49	<sbalneav> Sigh
11:49	* sbalneav slaps self with a wet haddock
11:50	<sbalneav> There's a REASON why I shouldn't be allowed to touch the trunks
11:50	However, we just got syslogging going too.
11:50	So that's cool
11:50	<vagrantc> gives us the opportunity to remenisc for old PIDs that had significant historical relevence :)
11:50	gm04030276 has joined #ltsp
11:51	<vagrantc> stripped out X initialization from LDM!
11:51	* vagrantc remembers suggesting that in 2005
11:51	<sbalneav> Well, now it's done!
11:51	<Q-FUNK> :D
11:52	<sbalneav> We're logging to LOG_DAEMON, that seem fine with you, vagrant?
11:52	chrisinajar has joined #ltsp
11:53	<vagrantc> sbalneav: what did you do to drop "kill -1 $PPID" reliably?
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11:53	<vagrantc> seemed like there were a fair number of cases where it seemed to work, but plenty that didn't.
11:54	* vagrantc wonders if we shouldn't bump ldm version to 2.1.0 sometime soonish
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11:56	<sbalneav> vagrantc: it's the < /dev/null > /dev/null that does it.
11:56	<vagrantc> nice!
11:56	<sbalneav> any problem if I push syslog mods to trunk?
11:57	* vagrantc doesn't know the changes
11:57	<stgraber> sbalneav: the ltsp-localappsd change is already in trunk, so just upload the ldm one :)
11:57	<vagrantc> sbalneav: i thought there was already a different parameter for syslogging ... SYSLOG_HOST, maybe?
11:58	<sbalneav> Yeah, that's right, syslog_host's what we log to, but LOG_DAEMON's the facility (i.e. logs show up in daemon.log)
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11:59	<sbalneav> Gadi_eeepc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
11:59	<Gadi_eeepc> hehe
11:59	<sbalneav> How are you!
11:59	Long time no see!!!
11:59	<Gadi_eeepc> har har har
11:59	<vagrantc> sbalneav: so you talking about ldm logging to a syslog ?
11:59	<chrisinajar> har har har
11:59	<sbalneav> yeah
11:59	so LDM files pop out on the server
12:00	<vagrantc> nice.
12:00	<sbalneav> I'ts done and works. stgraber and I just tested it
12:00	OK if I push
12:00	?
12:00	<stgraber> yeah, go ahead
12:00	<Gadi_eeepc> agreed
12:00	as does vagrantc
12:00	;)
12:01	* vagrantc trusts that it'll be ok.
12:01	<dtrask> Gadi_eeepc: Hey...you coming to Maine?
12:01	<vagrantc> sbalneav: go ahead and push ... i'm only keeping up with upstream in debian experimental anyways
12:02	<chrisinajar> isn't gadi already here?... I mean, i'm terrible with names, let alone screennames but...
12:02	<Gadi_eeepc> dtrask: pinch yourself - I
12:02	<dtrask> look for a guy in a yarmulke
12:02	<Gadi_eeepc> Im already here
12:02	:)
12:02	<chrisinajar> yay!
12:02	I'm right!
12:03	<dtrask> Gadi_eeepc: LOL! Oops....I'll see you tonight
12:03	:-)
12:03	* chrisinajar rejoices
12:03	<dtrask> Gadi_eeepc: what kind of beer shall I bring...I owe you one
12:03	* Gadi_eeepc should have worn his basball cap
12:03	<chrisinajar> dtrask: you should do something about your ETA :-P.... Arive earlier...
12:03	<Gadi_eeepc> ;)
12:03	dtrask: really?
12:03	cool
12:04	what did I do?
12:04	was I decent?
12:04	<dtrask> Gadi_eeepc: Are you ever decent?
12:04	<Gadi_eeepc> good point
12:04	<Q-FUNK> Gadecent_PC
12:04	<Gadi_eeepc> hehe
12:05	hey, Q-FUNK
12:05	<Q-FUNK> hey :)
12:05	<dtrask> chrisinajar: I'll drive "wicked" fast
12:05	<chrisinajar> awesome.
12:05	wicked awesome, even.
12:05	<Gadi_eeepc> tubular
12:05	whoops
12:05	<chrisinajar> eww.
12:05	<Gadi_eeepc> wrong coast
12:05	<chrisinajar> haha
12:05	east coast FTW!
12:05	<dtrask> chrisinajar: seriously though....what time did everyone finally turn in last night?
12:05	<chrisinajar> we're WICKED AWESOME.
12:06	dtrask: we weren't up too late... brendan and i departed for sleep around 11-ish...
12:06	<dtrask> chrisinajar: OMG! That's just wrong!
12:06	<chrisinajar> dtrask: last night wasn't really a party night :-P
12:06	<dtrask> chrisinajar: I'm banking on getting there and having at least 3 more hours before bedtime ;-)
12:06	<chrisinajar> dtrask: damn straight.
12:07	<dtrask> I'll bring midnight pizza
12:07	<chrisinajar> dtrask: i'm sure most of us wont argue with that :-P
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12:09	<dtrask> chrisinajar: unless I bring only anchovie and sauerkraut pizza
12:09	chrisinajar: ask Chuck...do they have "lopstah" pizza?
12:09	<chrisinajar> dtrask: from what i hear, at that point in the night they wont care :-P
12:10	<dtrask> LOL!
12:10	If it's like last year....yer right
12:10	<brendan0powers> if they do, i hope it turns red when you cook it
12:10	<dtrask> Ragnar had a long happy night...and a not so happy morning
12:11	<brendan0powers> ha
12:11	when he walked in i almost blerted out "Hey I heard about you!..."
12:11	<dtrask> warren_: hey...did you ever end up getting those headsets last year? Remember...I think you ordered them at BTS
12:11	brendan0powers: LOL!
12:11	brendan0powers: ask him about hiking all over Montreal looking for a Scotch
12:12	<brendan0powers> mayby later
12:12	<dtrask> Actually Dave Johnston can tell you about it
12:12	<chrisinajar> hey i think i know who that one is!
12:12	Weew!
12:12	One of the 3 people who I remember their name :-P
12:13	<dtrask> Hey....how are you guys set on power strips...and extension cords. I have bunches of them from FOSSED...just let me know and I can bring some
12:14	<stgraber> power strips and extension cords would be great, networking is quite good :)
12:14	<dtrask> k....I'll bring some
12:14	got whole big Rubbermaid things...full of em
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12:29	<stgraber> dtrask: when do you plan arriving here ?
12:29	<chrisinajar> stgraber: if i remember correctly, he said ~midnight
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12:46	* vagrantc pities the poor translator who needs to translate "SIOCGIFCONF"
12:47	<vagrantc> we should probably split out the untranslateable parts of our strings :)
12:50	krishna has quit IRC
12:52	<dtrask> stgraber: Late this evening...prolly close to midnight
12:53	stgraber: nonetheless....I suspect you guys will all be wide awake at that time....
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12:55	<sbalneav> vagrantc: I don't: SIOCGIFCONF's the same in all languages :)
12:55	<stgraber> dtrask: yeah, that's very likely
12:55	<davidj> sbalneav: Not in Russian...
12:55	<vagrantc> heh
12:56	<warren> dtrask: yes
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13:02	<sbalneav> vagrantc: OK, I've now down the void headers like pere wanted.
13:02	I'm gonna push another revision of ldm-trunk
13:02	OK by you?
13:02	<vagrantc> sbalneav: go ahead and push freely. :)
13:03	<sbalneav> danke
13:03	<vagrantc> no need to hold things up on my account :)
13:04	debian's in a hard freeze, so i'm still using a patched ldm 2.0.6, ltsp 5.1.10, and ltspfs 0.5.3
13:04	although it's basically ltspfs with all patches from 0.5.5 applied :)
13:04	so i'll have plenty of time to fix any bugs introduced now :)
13:05	<Q-FUNK> yikes
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13:06	<vagrantc> though i'd hope any development doesn't make backports to lenny insanely difficult
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13:09	<sbalneav> I don't think we're doing anything out of the ordinary.
13:10	the X in the screen script thing's fairly simple.
13:10	Does the syslog stuff cause you any difficulty?
13:10	<vagrantc> i doubt it
13:11	<_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: ok, glxgears works on the client, everything is wonderful
13:11	<vagrantc> main thing would be mandatory changes requiring the use of newer hal or xorg or glib or some such
13:11	<_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: if you need help, let me know.
13:11	<vagrantc> sbalneav: the changes thus far seem excellent as far as i'm concerned :)
13:12	<johnny> hmm..
13:12	<vagrantc> well, after disabling lots and lots of stuff, i managed to get an /opt/ltsp/kfreebsd-i386 built :)
13:12	<johnny> hmm.. i wonder if anybody is gonna do a ppa for newer ltsp packages
13:13	once you guys got all this going
13:13	<vagrantc> missing things on kfreebsd-i386: anything related to alsa or fuse, and getltscfg
13:14	<johnny> getltscfg shouldn't require much work
13:14	the rest.. hmm :)
13:14	oss time i guess
13:14	guess abstracting the alsa stuff will be easy
13:14	and fuse.. doesn't that exist?
13:15	<vagrantc> there's a freebsd port of fuse, but i haven't tried building it yet
13:15	there's libsalsa, which is an alsa -> oss compatibility layer
13:16	<Gadi_eeepc> lp:~gideon/ltsp/ldm-trunk-xinitrc
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13:16	<Gadi_eeepc> lp:~gideon/ltsp/ltsp-trunk-xinitrc
13:16	<vagrantc> Gadi_eeepc: different from what sbalneav already merged?
13:17	<Gadi_eeepc> vagrantc: yeah - I just added an export of XINITRC=/usr/lib/ltsp/xinitrc
13:18	and /usr/lib/ltsp/xinitrc will call all scripts in /usr/lib/ltsp/xinitrc.d/
13:18	<vagrantc> ah. so it's not specific to ldm ?
13:18	<Gadi_eeepc> to (hopefully) implement the non-ldm specific init dir
13:18	we will still have both
13:18	<vagrantc> 921. By MTkyLjE2OC4wLjExMw <MTkyLjE2OC4wLjExMw@ltspdemo-appserv1> 19 minutes ago
13:18	<Gadi_eeepc> in case there are ldm-specific init scripts
13:18	<vagrantc> Add xinitrc script and modify rdesktop to call it
13:18	nice :)
13:19	<Gadi_eeepc> hehe
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13:19	<Gadi_eeepc> I am on a guest accoount
13:19	on a thin client
13:19	:)
13:19	sorry
13:19	hmm...
13:19	well, if you want to commit it under your name
13:19	please do
13:19	:D
13:21	<Q-FUNK> whot? anonymous coward <guest@samba> is now a valid developer name? ;)
13:22	<Gadi_eeepc> hehe
13:22	stupid xandros has old bzr
13:22	and I am on my eeepc
13:22	so, now I am an eeepc thin client
13:22	<Q-FUNK> heh
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13:29	<dtrask> ok....I'm getting off here....and getting ready to get this stuff outta the way and head to SW Hahbah....see you guys later tonight....looking forward to hanging out with you all :-)
13:30	<cliebow_> cool!
13:30	<dtrask> cya l8tr
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13:32	<jammcq_> etyack: hey
13:32	jammcq_ is now known as jammcq
13:33	<etyack> jammcq_: hey i need to talk to ron asap
13:33	<jammcq> hey's gonna try to call you right now, but cell signal here is almost non-existant
13:33	troubles in paradise?
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13:59	<Lns> Anyone running rdesktop in LTSP with working sound to a windows server?
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14:06	<highvoltage> stgraber: I thought you were a motu since ages ago!
14:08	<Gadi_eeepc> Lns: from the server or from the client?
14:08	<Lns> Gadi_eeepc: from the client
14:08	<Gadi_eeepc> as in rdesktop screen script?
14:08	<Lns> Gadi_eeepc: I saw your ltsp.org wiki remark about all of that actually
14:08	Gadi_eeepc: no, from Gnome / tsclient
14:09	<Gadi_eeepc> ah, so thats from the server
14:09	;)
14:09	padsp rdesktop -r sound:local:oss ...
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14:10	<Gadi_eeepc> I think thats the only way for it to work because of some bug between pulse and alsa and alsa redirection
14:10	<Lns> Gadi_eeepc: so that will allow sound in both rdesktop session and linux?
14:11	<Gadi_eeepc> that will pipe the sound from your Linux desktop when rdesktop is launched from theere
14:12	so, if you open gnome-terminal in a thin client session and type that
14:12	you should get sound
14:12	<Lns> woot!
14:12	thanks buddy =)
14:12	<Gadi_eeepc> another way...
14:12	is to run rdesktop as a local app
14:12	* Lns hasn't touched localapps yet
14:13	<Gadi_eeepc> you will get better sound as a local app
14:13	than the above methodd
14:13	but both work
14:13	<_UsUrPeR_> using Fedora 9, why does dhcpd sometimes use the dhcpd.conf in /etc/ltsp and at other times use the conf in /etc/? Is there a specific config file I can change to point towards one or the other?
14:13	<Lns> hmm.
14:13	_UsUrPeR_: isn't one of them a symlink?
14:14	Gadi_eeepc: thank you =) did you buy an eee pc ?
14:14	<Gadi_eeepc> _UsUrPeR_: if it works like Ubuntu, it honors /etc/ltsp first
14:14	then /etc
14:14	Lns: yeah, back at the end of the summer
14:14	<_UsUrPeR_> gadi: that's what I had understoof
14:14	<Gadi_eeepc> _UsUrPeR_: it is in the init.d script
14:14	<_UsUrPeR_> hmm
14:14	<Gadi_eeepc> for dhcp3-server
14:14	but, again, thats ubuntu
14:15	<_UsUrPeR_> gadi: yeah, a little different
14:15	<Gadi_eeepc> i would guess on redhat it is in /etc/default
14:15	or /etc/sysconfig
14:15	<_UsUrPeR_> though it appears it SHOULD be using /etc/ltsp due to an if then statement in /etc/init.d/dhcpd
14:15	<Gadi_eeepc> ah
14:15	there ya go
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14:20	<alkisg1> Lns, you could also try the old way to run it locally, = install rdesktop into the chroot and put SCREEN_02=rdesktop.
14:20	puff has joined #ltsp
14:20	<puff> Hi... anyone home?
14:21	Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
14:21	<puff> Anyone from the ubuntu thin-client project around? I was explaining to this user on #ubuntu what "thin client" means and why, etc, and I wondered if the ubuntu thin client might find it useful for me to write that up for their project page.
14:22	<Lns> alkisg1: that might work if this doesn't seem to
14:22	<johnny> hmm?
14:22	alkisg1 is now known as alkisg
14:22	<johnny> puff, point them to the edubuntu handbook
14:22	maybe?
14:22	or the ltsp docs listed in the topic of this channel
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14:24	<Lns> alkisg: gadi's command wrapper worked...i'll leave it at that since i don't want to spend time on windows compatibility anymore :p
14:25	<alkisg> Lns, yeah, I've tried both myself and now in my new installation I don't have any of them :)
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14:30	<Lns> alkisg: haha, nice. On a sidenote, I think its hillarious that Windows terminal server REQUIRES a sound card in the SERVER for audio to work on client sessions.
14:31	* Lns wonders if anyone has built a fake audio hardware driver for windows terminal server to eliminate that necessity
14:33	<alkisg> Lns, I've been a windows programmer for 17 years... There are lots of hillarious things on windows ;) There were some virtual sound drivers, but I haven't looked for one lately
14:35	<Lns> alkisg: nice to see you're moving (at least partly) to Linux/ltsp development =)
14:36	<alkisg> Lns, I've moved to Linux completely since Spring, and I'm not going back, except if specific programming-related jobs come up. About development, I'm still not sure which way to go (qt/gtk/wxwidgets/mono/web-only interface etc)
14:37	<Lns> alkisg: what kind of development will you be doing?
14:37	<alkisg> I think I'll start with X11 (not kidding) to get the base stuff
14:37	Gadi_eeepc has left #ltsp
14:37	<Lns> alkisg: my vote would go for gtk :)
14:38	but just because i'm a pretty big gnome user/admin
14:38	<alkisg> Well, I could start with something easy, like an lts.conf manager, or something deep, like a multicast screen projecting application in X only (like a small italc that takes only a little bandwidth)
14:39	bobby_ has joined #ltsp
14:40	<Lns> alkisg: don't know what it's worth but you might look at easy-ltsp, they made an attempt at an lts.conf gui, but it doesn't look much more like some text-boxes and [ OK ] buttons. :p
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14:42	<johnny> ogra had something alkisg
14:42	that he hasn't finished
14:42	you could ask him
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14:43	<alkisg> johnny, I know, I wonder why noone maintains it, it looked like it could help newcomers to ltsp...
14:44	!seen ogra
14:44	<ltspbot> alkisg: ogra was last seen in #ltsp 1 day, 19 hours, 21 minutes, and 37 seconds ago: <ogra> anyway ... bed ...
14:45	<alkisg> He's probably exhausted after intrepid... :)
14:45	<Lns> or hung over ;)
14:45	<alkisg> hh
14:45	heh
14:45	<johnny> i really don't think you can cover over alot of the issues with ltsp
14:45	since they realted to modifying dhcp servers
14:45	that exist on the network elsewhere
14:46	as an example
14:46	<alkisg> johnny, so? Modifying scripts and running services it not a big deal, the difficult thing is to make it work on multiple distros... :)
14:46	<johnny> sure.. but it might be some cisco server
14:46	or some other non linux thing altogether
14:46	<alkisg> If the dhcp server is elsewhere, it's not a part of the program to modify it, but it may offer alternatives to the user
14:46	<Lns> johnny: what's wrong with a checkbox option "DHCP server elsewhere" (that grays out DHCP options in the gui) ?
14:47	<johnny> it shouldn't be ltsp specific
14:47	that's a general admin thing
14:47	<Lns> an ltsp manager shouldn't be ltsp specific ?
14:47	<alkisg> E.g. "according to your selections, you should specify these things in your router: .... / or in your windows dhcp server: ..."
14:48	<johnny> i'm saying very few of the options are ltsp specific
14:48	almost none
14:48	<alkisg> But even if it could take care of the more usual setups, it would make it easier for a lot of newcomers...
14:48	<johnny> the only thing ltsp specific is chroot generation
14:48	and lts.conf mods
14:48	<Lns> johnny: well most of the tie into the fact that you're running ltsp...so...
14:48	s/the/them
14:48	<johnny> they already exist tho
14:48	that aren't ltsp specific
14:48	<Lns> so?
14:48	<johnny> so.. use em :)
14:49	<Lns> if you're running them BECAUSE you're running LTSP...
14:49	oic, GUIs for dhcp/etc
14:49	<johnny> yes
14:49	<Lns> well..let there be two
14:49	<johnny> no
14:49	please don't
14:49	<Lns> that's the beauty of not vendor lockin ;)
14:50	* Lns has seen many horrendous attempts at DHCP GUI/WUI/etc
14:50	<johnny> cuz then you'll have two crappy solutions.. instead of one good one
14:50	better to contribute to a set of generic tools that work well
14:50	<Lns> or one crappy one and one good one.. ?
14:50	<johnny> if you believe it..
14:50	lol
14:51	<Lns> what generic tools are there?
14:51	Webmin sucks
14:51	linuxconf sucks and is non-existant in most distros now a days
14:51	yast is distro specific, as is most other ones that are semi decent
14:52	<alkisg> A dhcpd.conf GUI tool should embed the dhcpd.conf parser to be proper... I don't suppose webmin or other similar tools do that
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14:53	<Lns> I dunno..i still say screw GUIs all together for things like this, it's better to learn how it works anyway from the commandline. I don't see anything wrong with people learning the commandline these days.
14:53	Just because it used to be used before GUIs doesn't mean it's arcane or obsolete
14:53	i think we can all agree on that
14:54	<alkisg> Lns, I agree. A GUI in this case will only be useful for the most common cases, where the "admin" will never see the console
14:55	E.g. there are 2-3 possible setups for schools, the admin can select the one it fits him via a wizard, and never find out about dhcpd.conf or lts.conf etc
14:55	But if something different is needed, then console is a must
14:56	<Lns> alkisg: yep. I haven't run into a case yet that didn't require at least a LITTLE fiddling on the console to get set up and running with all requirements
14:56	A GUI can easily get crowded with every possible option (see Windows for that)
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14:57	<Lns> And it turns into a case of either "Which buttons do i click" or "what do I type", the latter usually taking much less time overall
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14:58	<alkisg> I was just thinking of something to let school "admins" (=computer teachers) switch to ltsp more easily... After a year of usage, they'll dump the GUI tool and get to the console anyway
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15:00	<stgraber> sbalneav: NumberOfPasswordPrompts
15:01	<Lns> alkisg: you know what i've heard from almost all of my teachers that would be nice to have a gui for
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15:01	<Lns> is not the setup of LTSP but the day to day administration
15:01	<alkisg> Lns, that's a big project ;)
15:02	<Lns> well not if you look at LTSP cases
15:02	alkisg: what about a user interface for modifying user-level app config
15:02	like OOo
15:02	(removing their configuration to start over from scratch, say)
15:02	<alkisg> OK, that covers about 1/1000 of the day to day administration
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15:02	<alkisg> :P
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15:03	<Lns> lol..ok, and killing user processes
15:03	sanely, that is, with g-s-m (which is currently broken)
15:03	maybe simple integration of other GUIs in an LTSP centric gui
15:03	[ System Monitor ] [ User Configuration Editor ] [ Profile Manager ]
15:04	that would be pretty slick IMHO
15:04	and easy as pie
15:04	<alkisg> Slick, I agree, easy... hmm... I don't know, I'll have to look at the code!
15:04	<Lns> well if it's just a GUI that launches other GUIs...
15:05	<alkisg> OK, but I think this calls for a plugin system, scripting and more
15:05	<Lns> well sure
15:05	was just suggesting something easy to start with :)
15:05	that would help LTSP admins
15:06	<alkisg> Lns, I'll have some free time in the summer, I'll start something then. I'll have more experience also, to see what would be needed more. Thanks thoug!
15:06	though
15:07	<Lns> no, do it now! NOW! =p
15:09	<alkisg> Heh! This is the nice thing about developing apps without paying customers above your head... noone can tell you that! :)
15:09	<Lns> yep =)
15:09	but still..do it now. please? :p
15:09	j/k
15:10	<alkisg> Sure... if you send me a 10000+ lines patch for it :P
15:12	<Lns> sure
15:12	I'll just call my windows programmer :p
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15:31	<DawnLight> hello. in kubuntu intrepid i've gnome installed as well as kde and i'd like to have "ubuntu" dislayed on the login manager of ltsp clients instead of "kubuntu" and i'd like gnome to be the default desktop
15:31	is this something to do when building the client chroot?
15:33	<jc2it> Using Ubuntu 8.04 + LTSP 5. I would like to install wyse60 terminal emulation client to the thin client image. What step must I take. I am hitting a brick wall with sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 and then using apt-get. apt-get works fine outside of chroot.
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15:36	<DawnLight> jc2it: can you paste your terminal session please?
15:38	<jc2it> sorry I am using a different computer to connect to IRC.
15:38	I think the repositories are not set up correctly in chroot
15:39	I can ping from chroot accross my network
15:39	i do not know how to test if I can connect to repositories.
15:42	<cliebow_> jc2it, almost seems like one nedds to mount a couple things..
15:44	<jc2it> I may have found my problem i am reading about it here... https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/UpdatingChroot
15:45	<cliebow_> yeah that proc piece?
15:48	<alkisg> DawnLight, chroot /opt/ltsp/<arch> and update-alternatives --config ldm-theme
15:48	<DawnLight> thanks alkisg
15:49	<alkisg> DawnLight, or, while building the client, ltsp-build-client --dist ubuntu (I haven't tried this one)
15:49	<DawnLight> i thought about this
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16:32	<jc2it> I forgot apt-get update to build the repository database
16:35	<vagrantc> "ltsp-build-client --dist" is for selecting the release dist, not the distribution ... i.e. hardy,intrepid,lenny,sid vs. ubuntu,debian
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17:08	<DawnLight> hey. is there some way to use intrepid's guest account thingy?
17:16	<vagrantc> LDM_GUESTLOGIN=true in lts.conf
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17:17	<davidj> sbalneav: Got a sec?
17:17	<Lns> vagrantc: does that function differently than the 8.04 Ubuntu lts.conf guest feature?
17:17	<johnny> no
17:18	there is a timeout
17:18	tho
17:18	i need to set that up :)
17:18	oh wait.. that didn't make intrepid did it?
17:18	might be nice to have a ppa for up to date ltsp stuff
17:18	<vagrantc> Lns: i didn't think it made it into hardy.
17:18	<Lns> I was thinking the other day it would be nice to have a single central "guest" account for any client (not a separate account for each client) with a volatile homedir (say in /tmp or something) that got wiped upon logout and can be used with simultaneous logins
17:18	oh maybe it is different
17:18	<johnny> don't think so..
17:19	it did make it into hardy vagrantc , just not into gutsy
17:19	<vagrantc> Lns: that's very different.
17:20	Lns: this is just basically a variation on LDM_AUTOLOGIN, except the greeter comes up and gives people with real accounts a chance to log in.
17:20	<Lns> vagrantc: i imagine so
17:20	vagrantc: gotcha
17:20	<johnny> LDM_ALLOW_GUEST it was
17:20	<Lns> yeah, those 2 features are in hardy
17:20	autologin and allow_guest
17:20	<johnny> it is not LDM_GUESTLOGIN tho
17:20	now*
17:20	<vagrantc> but the auto-wiped homedir sounds like a nice feature.
17:20	<Lns> vagrantc: and secure!
17:21	<johnny> why bother with just one account?
17:21	why not just create accounts on the fly?
17:21	<vagrantc> yeah.
17:21	<Lns> johnny: even better
17:21	<vagrantc> though this isn't really ltsp at that point.
17:21	would be useful to ltsp, but isn't something i'd think we could implement as part of ltsp.
17:22	<Lns> vagrantc: could or should?
17:22	<vagrantc> Lns: both, really. :)
17:22	<Lns> hehe
17:22	<DawnLight> its not working for me, the LDM_GUESTLOGIN
17:22	this is intrepid
17:22	it isn't doing anything different than when it is not set
17:22	<Lns> DawnLight: do you have the username/pass in there too?
17:23	<DawnLight> Lns: ahm... no. i didn't know i needed those. are there docs about this?
17:23	<Lns> DawnLight: LDM_USERNAME and LDM_PASSWORD
17:23	(hardy anyway, dunno if ibex is different)
17:23	<vagrantc> it shouldn't require setting LDM_USERNAME And LDM_PASSWORD
17:23	<Lns> oh ok, nevermind
17:23	<vagrantc> should default to the hostname of the thin client
17:24	<Lns> but you need the user acct in there regardless
17:24	<johnny> you still need accounts based on the hostname daduke_
17:24	err
17:24	DawnLight,
17:24	<vagrantc> you need the accounts on the server
17:24	<johnny> i use ssh key logins for that
17:24	* Lns has seen many people ask about the guest feature, not knowing about the actual acct creation part
17:24	<DawnLight> what accounts? a 'guest account' that i've devised?
17:24	<johnny> all accounts
17:24	for each computer
17:25	<Lns> DawnLight: yes
17:25	<johnny> multiple guest accounts
17:25	<DawnLight> ah... shoot. is there a script for this?
17:25	<Lns> see in a 200+ TC network...having 200 guest accounts is kinda sloppy ;)
17:25	and 200 entries in lts.conf
17:25	<johnny> Lns, you can define a script in dhcp to automatically create them
17:25	skip the 200 entries lns
17:25	<Lns> johnny: hey that's true
17:26	<johnny> i create a user per computer
17:26	<warren> Ryan52: what is the function to switch focus to the login box? it seems broke again
17:26	<johnny> and put them all in a "terminals" group
17:26	and then iterate over that group, empty their home directories
17:26	put in the ssh keys
17:26	kill all proces that are hanging around
17:26	<Lns> jeez that sounds trivial..
17:26	<johnny> unmount .gvfs
17:26	<Ryan52> warren: hrm...in the fedora ldm or in normal ldm?
17:26	<johnny> it's only 20 lines
17:26	<warren> Ryan52: fedora
17:27	<johnny> Lns, you could more easily.. create users on the fly based on dhcp hosts
17:27	i know dnsmasq lets you run a script on lease creation
17:27	<Lns> johnny: that's what i'm thinking
17:27	<warren> Ryan52: could you adapt your patch as a conditional that can be merged into ldm, so I don't have to maintain a separate patch?
17:28	<Lns> well even if-up.d/
17:28	<johnny> i don't even do if up
17:28	<Ryan52> warren: ogra started a thingy so that it reads the layout from a file.
17:28	warren: dunno if he ever plans to finish that, though..
17:28	<johnny> i just keep what happens in the initrd
17:28	<DawnLight> does anyone have examples for guest accounts? and... how about using the guest account thing in the intrepid gdm?
17:29	<johnny> DawnLight, just create accounts for each computer based on thier hostname, and give them the hostname as the password
17:29	that's it
17:29	<Lns> johnny: and with SSH keys there's no passing of username/passwd to ltsp, should autologin.. ?
17:29	<johnny> yes
17:29	<Lns> as long as hostname var is used
17:29	<johnny> so just generate a nonsense password
17:29	<Ryan52> warren: the gtk_widget_grab_focus function is there..
17:29	<warren> Ryan52: I know, thus I could really use a conditional until then.
17:29	<Lns> BRILLIANT!
17:29	<johnny> ranpwd
17:29	<warren> Ryan52: http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/devel/ldm/ldm-rearrange-stuff.patch?view=log
17:29	Ryan52: I might have screwed something up
17:29	* vagrantc uses disabled passwords
17:29	<johnny> or that :)
17:29	<Lns> to log in?
17:29	oh w/ssh keys
17:30	<vagrantc> for accounts that should only login using ssh keys
17:30	<johnny> vagrantc, all password logins?
17:30	oh
17:30	* Ryan52 looks at this cvs thing in confusion
17:30	<johnny> yeah.. probably an option in adduser or something
17:30	Lns, that is probably better
17:30	you do need keys in /root/.ssh in the chroot tho
17:31	<DawnLight> johnny: but they should be purged... i'm not sure how to do that
17:31	<vagrantc> that prevents the user from changing the accounts password
17:31	<johnny> purged when?
17:31	DawnLight, i purge mine nightly
17:31	<vagrantc> we purge accounts daily at freegeek.
17:31	<warren> Ryan52: this is the patch I apply against ldm-2.0.16
17:31	<Lns> johnny: you like purging your whole server at night don't you =p
17:31	<johnny> does anybody wanna see the nonsense script i have?
17:32	<Lns> sure
17:32	<DawnLight> good night and thank you!
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17:32	<johnny> http://localmomentum.net/~johnny/prep_terminals.sh
17:34	this line could be better
17:34	rm -rf /home/${i}/* /home/${i}/.*
17:34	i had another way.. but i lost it
17:34	something with find
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17:35	* Lns keeps forgetting about pkill
17:35	<Ryan52> warren: I have a call to gtk_widget_grab_focus, and yours doesn't...I think.
17:36	<johnny> it was a quick and dirty thing
17:36	* Ryan52 wonders why interdiff is not working on these two diffs
17:36	<johnny> when i realized that people were logging into my server remotely with bots
17:36	* Lns wonders if the infamous gnome-watchdog package looks for .gvfs mounts
17:36	<johnny> i should check out gnome-watchdog, but i was hoping for something to either be fixed in gnome.. or something to happen in ssh
17:36	err
17:36	<warren> Ryan52: I might have screwed up and removed it by accident
17:37	<johnny> something to happen in ltsp directly
17:37	<vagrantc> building from ldm-trunk failed for me ... :(
17:37	<warren> Ryan52: where do I insert it?
17:37	<Ryan52> vagrantc: pfft. what do you expect when a bunch of hackers get together and write code all day :)
17:38	<ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "ldm-trunk build error" (13 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/96
17:38	<Ryan52> warren: i have "gtk_widget_grab_focus(GTK_WIDGET(entry));" right after the gdk_window_set_cursor call.
17:38	<Lns> johnny: well it's nice because you can't guarantee that all apps will exit cleanly 100% of the time anyway
17:38	<vagrantc> was anything added that would require more build dependencies?
17:38	<Ryan52> warren: well...uhhhh...ummm...after the call that was taken out. so after the gtk_widget_show_all call.
17:38	<Lns> even if the real problem procs (bonobo-activation-whatever, gconfd-2) get fixed upon ltsp logout
17:38	<johnny> Lns, the problem is that ltsp doesn't traditionally handle such things due to screen type apps
17:39	<warren> Ryan52: i'm a little confusede
17:39	<johnny> but.. maybe there should be an option in lts.conf like killall_on_exit or whatever
17:39	to satsify 99% of users
17:39	anyways.. i gotta go for a bit Lns
17:39	bbl
17:39	<Lns> johnny: i agree.. gnome-watchdog has been great to me so far, 8 sites, no complaints, just praise that people stopped locking up upon subsequent logins
17:39	johnny: take care
17:40	<Ryan52> warren: one second.
17:40	warren: curl http://slexy.org/raw/s25uVSRvra \| patch -p 1
17:40	<warren> i'll add that curl line to the .spec file for package builds
17:41	* Ryan52 really hopes warren was joking
17:41	<warren> of course
17:41	<Ryan52> (sarcasm over the internet just doesn't work right :()
17:42	<vagrantc> who broke sarcasm!?
17:44	* Lns slowly walks away
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17:49	<vagrantc> fgiraldeau, stgraber: did the tab patches require adding a build-dependency for you?
17:49	<warren> Ryan52: ok, scottie agreed to get this alt layout into as a conditional at least until oliver merges the new layout thing
17:50	Ryan52: what kind of conditional do you think is best? runtime or ifdef?
17:50	<Ryan52> messy messy messy! /me just knows ogra is gonna be pissed about that.
17:50	ifdef, please.
17:52	<stgraber> vagrantc: shouldn't no, I'll ask fgiraldeau when he goes back
17:52	*comes
17:52	<sbalneav> hello
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17:53	<vagrantc> i can build from ldm-trunk minus the tab patches
17:53	* Ryan52 wonders if there is a script that will merge diffs into code with #ifdefs around them...that would be soooooooo cool. then everybody could make such a big mess! :)
17:54	<Ryan52> vagrantc: "grep -R name_of_thing_that_is_erroring /usr/include"...then just follow the logical chain of include backwards until you figure out which header should be included.
17:54	Q-FUNK has quit IRC
17:54	<Ryan52> or google it...but googling isn't as fun :P
17:55	<stgraber> vagrantc: ok, having a look at it now.
17:56	<vagrantc> Ryan52: i don't think it's in my /usr/include/
17:56	Ryan52: turns up nothing ...
17:56	egrep -r GDK_TAB /usr/include/
17:56	<stgraber> vagrantc: hmm, ok I know what's broken, fgiraldeau told me to remove a "useless" include but I think it was actually quite useful
17:57	just let me fix that
17:57	* vagrantc suspects gdk-imlib11-dev
17:58	<stgraber> ok, I have a fix, let me upload it
17:58	<Ryan52> vagrantc: it's GDK_Tab
17:59	<stgraber> +#include <gdk/gdkkeysyms.h>
17:59	pushed
17:59	* Ryan52 notes that that's what the grep -R turned up to do too :)
17:59	<vagrantc> what package is gdkkeysyms.h from?
18:00	<Ryan52> vagrantc: libgtk2.0-dev
18:00	vagrantc: full path is /usr/include/gtk-2.0/gdk/gdkkeysyms.h
18:00	<stgraber> doh, Ryan52 was faster
18:01	vagrantc: it's already a build-dep
18:01	<vagrantc> yup, just a missing #include, then
18:01	stgraber: although ubuntu and debian have really strayed in the various debian dirs.
18:02	stgraber: i don't think we've seen full sync of ldm or ltsp since pre-gutsy
18:02	<stgraber> right, I hope we can get most of the packaging synced between both, there isn't that much distro-specifc stuff in there
18:02	<vagrantc> yeah.
18:03	something that would go a long way to making it easier would be to split out all the ubuntu themes into a separate package
18:03	i've been meaning to work on a debian theme package that you could use as an example, but artwork isn't my strong point and it requires some tweaking of the logos
18:05	<stgraber> right, then it's just a matter of a depend or even a distro-specific script in ltsp-build-clients for the artwork
18:05	other distro-specific stuff include that udev thing but you got that fix IIRC ?
18:05	<Ryan52> vagrantc: just use gdm's theme. ldm needs to be exactly like gdm in every single way! :)
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18:06	<vagrantc> stgraber: yeah, you could sync 0.5.5-1 from debian experimental into jaunty
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18:07	<vagrantc> stgraber: ltspfs, that is
18:10	<stgraber> yeah, this one will be a simple sync, others will take a bit longer to make sure we don't have some unknown ubuntu-specific changes forgoten in the process
18:10	<vagrantc> stgraber: what's your timeline for syncing with debian?
18:11	<stgraber> automatically sync deadline is end of december, then I can still manually sync
18:11	until the feature freeze
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18:21	<vagrantc> the /dev/null trick didn't fix the problem with "kill -1 $PPID"
18:29	* vagrantc is very happy to see ldm started from xinit
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18:31	<Lns> vagrantc: woah, does that mean we'll have better X integration w/ldm? like numlockx stuff working better in ldm? or am i missing something
18:35	<vagrantc> and ldm logging to syslog is the best!
18:35	Lns: we already got that
18:35	Lns: with the ldm/rc.d/I* scripts
18:36	<Lns> vagrantc: woo on syslog! how about rebooting of the server? Is there a possibility of clients/ldm/etc handling that better (i.e. not having to reboot themselves after server reboot) ?
18:36	(at least in nbd style setups anyway)
18:37	<vagrantc> nothing changed there, really.
18:38	<stgraber> Lns: that may already work in Ubuntu with nbd using -persist, as long as you keep the same nbd root and the server never rejects the request (DROP is fine, REJECT makes nbd not to try again)
18:40	<Lns> stgraber: well requests would probably be DROPed and not REJECTed since it's rebooting i'd assume
18:40	I'll have to try the -persist thing..it's a pain having to reboot a bunch of TCs whenever bouncing the server
18:41	specially with all these ubu kernel update storms =p
18:41	<Ryan52> Lns likes iptables a little bit too much :)
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18:41	<Lns> Ryan52: guess i had the wrong context eh?
18:42	<Ryan52> oh, stgraber started it.
18:42	anyway, it would be REJECTED, I guess. connection refused before the server thing starts.
18:43	before the nbd server starts.
18:43	but after the server gets it's ip and set up networking.
18:44	* vagrantc wonders if xatomwait is holding open the X connection
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18:44	<vagrantc> i seem to get an indefinitely stalled logout on my second and subsequent connections, but the first one logs out properly.
18:45	<Ryan52> oh -_-
18:45	so, then if it's a bug in ldm/ltsp/whatever I completely destroyed my test environment for no reason.
18:46	<stgraber> bah, just pull. Scotty did quite a lot of bugfix in LDM :)
18:47	<vagrantc> stgraber: i pulled the fixes, and they're what broke it :P
18:47	oh, i see some more
18:51	<stgraber> yeah, the hackfest is probably not the best time to plan a new stable update :)
18:52	* vagrantc hasn't done a stable update in years
18:52	<vagrantc> i'm just trying to keep up :)
18:52	sbalneav has joined #ltsp
18:53	<sbalneav> Hey hey
18:53	* vagrantc waves to sbalneav
18:53	<sbalneav> hey vagrant
18:53	* vagrantc re-builds ldm with sbalneav's latest
18:53	<sbalneav> so, We've now got a framework for signal handling
18:55	So, we can now handle ssh dying into the middle of the chat
18:57	<vagrantc> sbalneav: i think the fix that removed "kill -1 $PPID" doesn't work in all cases
18:57	it seems to fail for me on the second and subsequent logins ... just hangs
18:57	works fine with newer openssh, but with older versions it breaks.
18:58	<sbalneav> I'm running it at work with hardy
18:58	<Lns> have a good weekend all
18:58	* Lns waves
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18:58	<sbalneav> Is that an "old" or a "new" ssh?
19:00	vagrantc: So, it's hanging on logout for you?
19:01	<vagrantc> sbalneav: yes, with a 4.7 version of openssh-server
19:01	sbalneav: works fine with 5.1
19:02	<sbalneav> I've got 4.7 here on Hardy, and it's working
19:02	<vagrantc> using icewm here
19:02	<sbalneav> What happens if you use gnome?
19:02	<vagrantc> ubuntu might have backported some patches to 4.7, too
19:03	sbalneav: good question!
19:03	* vagrantc tries
19:04	<vagrantc> gueslogin seems broken with a changed session ...
19:04	<sbalneav> According to the ssh manpage, redirecting sdtin & stdout is supposed to cure the problem that we were having, and certainly at least on Ubuntu, it does fix it.
19:04	<vagrantc> guestlogin is just broken...
19:05	<sbalneav> What do we need to add to lts.conf for guest login?
19:06	<vagrantc> LDM_GUESTLOGIN=true
19:06	* vagrantc logs in manually with gnome
19:06	<vagrantc> gnome is hanging also.
19:07	<sbalneav> Hm.
19:08	Q-FUNK has quit IRC
19:08	<sbalneav> ok, we'll have a look at the guestlogin function.
19:08	We can see it not working here.
19:09	<vagrantc> that it logs to syslog makes it so much easier to debug!
19:12	<stgraber> vagrantc: so if we have: LDM_SERVER, LDM_USERNAME, LDM_PASSWORD and LDM_GUESTLOGIN set it should work right ?
19:12	<vagrantc> stgraber: you shouldn't need anything but LDM_GUESTLOGIN=true
19:13	<Ryan52> stgraber: it defaults to the hostname of the client for username and password.
19:13	<vagrantc> and an account on the server named the same as the hostname
19:13	<sbalneav> vagrantc: fixing guestlogin
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19:15	<sbalneav> vagrantc: pushed fixed, try guestlogin now
19:20	<vagrantc> sbalneav: haven't tested, but i think you'll need to special-case get_userid as well ..
19:20	oh, maybe not.
19:20	<sbalneav> We got logged in with that pusg.
19:21	push
19:21	So, I'm interested as to why the < /dev/null > /dev/null doesn't work.
19:23	<jammcq> Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
19:26	<sbalneav> jammcq!!!!!!
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19:32	<vagrantc> sbalneav: guestlogin fix worked.
19:34	<sbalneav> ok, well, THAT's good :)
19:34	We need to figure out the kill -1 thing though
19:40	<vagrantc> sbalneav: i think it's the same problem with the last time we tried it ... something keeps the ssh session going such that it never calls "ssh -O exit"
19:40	<stgraber> sbalneav: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/f6132bd03
19:40	<vagrantc> seems like LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT is also broken
19:42	LDM_AUTOLOGIN works
19:45	maybe i'm wrong on LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT ... seems to be working with LDM_GUESTLOGIN=true
19:46	i so frequently have LDM_GUESTLOGIN enabled when testing, i don't know if that's a change in behavior
19:47	but i thought it used to work without guestlogin
19:47	nevermind. it's working just fine.
19:47	oh, it is broken...
19:48	the timeout counts down, but does nothing.
19:48	<Ryan52> I'm pretty sure it previously worked on it's own...I do most of my testing with everything off but the feature I'm testing.
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19:50	<vagrantc> although, the use case where you'd want it to log in after a certain time but not provide them a button to handle the login seems ... rare.
19:51	<Ryan52> true
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19:53	* vagrantc never understood how the timeout worked ...
19:53	<Ryan52> how it worked from a users point of view or a coders point of view?
19:54	<vagrantc> the code
19:55	i see the update_timeout function, and where it's called ... but i don't really understand what g_timeout_add does ...
19:56	* vagrantc wonders why scopy won't die.
19:57	<Ryan52> so at the main part of ldm we hand over contrl to glib, and then everything is event based. g_timeout_add makes glib run the function you give it every x milliseconds (I think it is).
19:58	<sbalneav> ldm? or gtkgreet?
19:58	<vagrantc> gtkgreet
19:58	<sbalneav> right.
19:59	So, when logout's hung, have you run an strace on the session, to see what it's stuck on?
20:00	<vagrantc> sbalneav: where would i run it from?
20:00	<sbalneav> Prolly on the server
20:00	Here's a test
20:00	one sec
20:01	<vagrantc> the last time we tried it, killing the hanging dbus-launch or dbus-daemon would cause it to continue ...
20:01	but with this patch, even killing all the user's processes still leaves it hung
20:03	<sbalneav> vagrantc: Does your icewm session script redirect stderr to .xsession-errors?
20:06	<vagrantc> sbalneav: no idea ...
20:08	<sbalneav> ummm, welll......
20:08	could you...
20:08	maybe....
20:08	check?
20:08	On the gnome one, it redirects stderr to .xsession-errors
20:08	I'm wondering if stderr's hanging you up
20:09	<vagrantc> i'm looking, it's just ... looking for a needle in a needle pit
20:09	<Ryan52> I don't think it's the window manager that does it.
20:09	I think it's the thing that calls the window manager.
20:09	* vagrantc suspects dbus-lauch --exit-with-session x-session-manager
20:12	* vagrantc needs to eat dinner
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20:12	<sbalneav> ergh
20:12	sorry
20:13	vagrantc: can I get you to try a local patch?
20:14	at about line 580
20:15	> /dev/null < /dev/null
20:15	sorry < >
20:15	can you do < /dev/null > /dev/null 2> /dev/null
20:15	that should send stderr to /dev/null as well
20:18	Am I here?
20:18	Is there anybody... out there
20:18	<jammcq> not me
20:18	<sbalneav> ok
20:18	You cannot reach me now
20:18	no matter how you try
20:19	goodbye cruel world it's over
20:19	walk on by
20:19	Sitting in my bunker
20:19	here inside my wall
20:19	waiting for the worms
20:19	to come to call
20:20	<stgraber> sbalneav: gtk_misc_set_alignment((GtkMisc *) entry, 1, 0.5);
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20:23	<sbalneav> vagrantc: Warren confirms that exiting works for him, but I don't know his ssh version.
20:24	vagrantc: here's where I got the idear from:
20:24	http://www.openssh.org/faq.html#3.10
20:34	<Ahmuck> if a mobo does not have sound, ie server mobo, but the client has sound, will the client still have sound?
20:34	<johnny> yes
20:35	unless it's windows ..
20:35	then the server must have sound
20:36	<Ahmuck> confusion. windows programs or windows in a virtual machine?
20:36	isn't ltsp a linux server, there isn't a ltsp windows server is there?
20:36	<Ryan52> Ahmuck: that was just a windows sucks comment, I think :)
20:37	<Ahmuck> ok. lol
20:37	<johnny> Ahmuck, some people run a windows machine in combination with an ltsp machine
20:37	so they can use rdesktop to get linux thin clients that just boot into a windows server
20:37	<Ahmuck> next question. servers are configured with non-ecc ecc and fully buffered ram. i assume that fully buffered ram is best
20:37	<Ryan52> Ahmuck: ya, you can use rdesktop from thinclients.
20:38	<Ahmuck> rdesktop to boot into a windows server?!
20:38	<johnny> yeah.. some people do that
20:38	<Ahmuck> windows server --> rdesktop --> linux client --> windows interface ?
20:38	<johnny> yes
20:38	<Ahmuck> how odd
20:38	<johnny> well windows doesn't have netbootable thin clients
20:39	<Ryan52> Ahmuck: it's just a linux command...ltsp can run anything on bootup.
20:39	<Ahmuck> one could put a basic sound card into a windows server via pci i suppose and it would work
20:39	<johnny> yes
20:39	but as Ryan52 said.. windows sucks
20:39	<Ahmuck> i doubt you'd get full capable fiber sound via ltsp anyway
20:39	<johnny> you can't get sound through rdesktop without a soundcard in the windows server
20:39	<Ahmuck> ok, well, that's not my problem, as i'm ubuntu
20:40	<johnny> as far as ram goes..
20:40	people just get the best they can afford
20:40	<Ahmuck> i've noticed a lot of sysadmin menu entries in kde, and gnome. i assume there is a way to remove them
20:40	i can afford fully buffered ecc ram.
20:40	<johnny> i'm using a standard desktop relatively
20:40	<Ahmuck> which is why i asked
20:40	<johnny> with 2 GB ram
20:41	whatever i got cheap off newegg :)
20:41	hehe
20:41	as my server
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20:41	<Ahmuck> :) the cost difference is about 100.00
20:41	<johnny> well.. whatever you like
20:41	<vagrantc> sbalneav: will try the 2> /dev/null patch
20:41	<Ahmuck> anywho, so, can one build seperate login screens and desktops for different users and cut out the admin meny options
20:42	<vagrantc> sbalneav: but then i'll turn in for the night.
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20:46	<vagrantc> sbalneav: i've had it working ever since switching to openssh-server 5.1 ... but when i downgrade to a 4.7 version it fails.
20:47	sbalneav: also, does your patch give a chance for rc.d/K* scripts to trigger?
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20:55	<vagrantc> sbalneav: no luck on redirecting 2> /dev/null
20:55	johnny has joined #ltsp
20:55	<Ahmuck> i guess the question i was asking, is there a performance hit for using fully buffered ram?
20:56	johnny is now known as Guest27817
20:56	<Guest27817> no idea
20:56	never had the opportuntity to even thinking about paying so much
20:57	check the benchmarks in a non partisan web site
20:57	this is not ltsp specifc
20:57	so any ole benchmarks.. even for win should be telling
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20:59	<loather-work> some systems require FBDs
20:59	for instance, every current xeon system
20:59	<Ahmuck> Guest27817: k, i found out, that non-ecc is faster. is ltsp more stable using ecc ram vs non-ecc. i don't want a server that is going to be crashing on non-ecc
21:00	loather-work: thx. that's what i'm building
21:00	that pretty much makes the choice for me
21:01	Guest27817 is now known as johnny
21:02	<johnny> Ahmuck, people rarely talk about such issues here
21:02	<loather-work> the performance difference is going to be minimal at best anyways.
21:02	FBDs are very, very fast.
21:03	<Ahmuck> loather-work: thx
21:05	johnny: well, i was asking because i'm looking at the fastes ltsp server i can get. i'm concerned about speed. gigabyte ethernet, etc. i did have a client (450mhz, 256mb ram) that would not boot. since i have many of these, i've been concerned i'm going to have to find better client machines but won't know till i do some more testing
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21:07	<Ahmuck> johnny: btw, i'm in ##hardware asking similar questions. the question i asked here i felt was more specific to the performance of ltsp on hardware
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21:17	<johnny> that's plenty of ram
21:17	people run with less proc..
21:17	if they didn't boot.. it is another problem
21:23	<Ahmuck> ah, ok. i'm going to tackle the boot problem later.
21:28	<sbalneav> Well, THAT was a first-rate amount of hacking today.
21:29	<vagrantc> the xinit and syslog stuff is excellent! :)
21:29	<Ahmuck> in a ltsp environment, i assume one can "limit" drive space for each user
21:30	how much drive space does a user normally use?
21:30	<vagrantc> Ahmuck: not in an ltsp environment any more than a "normal" system.
21:30	<Ahmuck> k, guess it varies on the user
21:31	it's not uncommon for users to "backup" cd's or purchase mp3's for their mp3 player. i assume that usb ports work on the client and allow the transfer of data between devices?
21:32	<johnny> usb works.. but not cd writers
21:32	<Ahmuck> johnny: really?
21:32	would they work on a "fat" client?
21:32	<johnny> yes
21:32	i think so
21:32	maybe you can make the cd burning app run local
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22:03	<helpme> may i join?
22:03	<vagrantc> !question
22:03	<ltspbot> vagrantc: "question" is if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can. please also mention the linux distro and release you're using. :)
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22:04	<helpme> ok, i have problem with ubuntu 8.04 and ltsp 5. ACPI: DMI BIOS year==0, assuming ACPI-capable machine
22:05	seems like my kernel needs modification in dhcp.conf itry using option option-128 code 128 = string;
22:05	option option-129 code 129 = text;
22:05	option option-128 e4:45:74:68:00:00;
22:05	option option-129 "acpi=off";
22:05	but not reading or work at all, any suggestion??
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22:22	<johnny> no
22:23	you should set it in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
22:23	i don't know anybody who has ever done it via option 129
22:24	or specifically /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/macprefix
22:24	without the colons
22:25	<helpme> because i am using etherboot, i am using this way http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/BootingFromHarddrive
22:26	if i correct your way is for PXE or booting from lancard ony??
22:26	<johnny> i don't know anything about etherboot
22:26	yes.. pxe
22:26	that's all i use
22:26	i use floppy from rom-o-matic on machines that can't netboot
22:27	none of my machines have hard drives
22:27	<helpme> i think may be same with me, just different media. me from harddisk
22:27	<johnny> yeah.. well then set it to use pc instead
22:27	err pxe instead
22:27	<helpme> are you using ltsp5 and ubuntu 8.04?
22:27	<johnny> uggh
22:27	maybe i'm just confusing myself.. too tired
22:27	8.10 now
22:28	but 8.04 before..
22:28	<helpme> how you handle acpi?
22:28	<johnny> i leave acpi on
22:28	acpi is good
22:28	all my machines work fine with acpi
22:28	<helpme> i mean, i have old machine problem with acpi, so i must turn off acpi
22:28	<johnny> :(
22:29	<helpme> are you using boot filename "/ltsp/i386/nbi.img" ??
22:29	or filename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0"
22:30	cmiiw /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default is for "PXEClient"??
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22:37	<wpgmb> Can anyone help me with Bug #269188? (Extreme slowness and FF is already running)? From what I can tell, a patch is available, but I have no idea how to implement it?
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22:47	<helpme> anybody using etherboot?
22:48	<wpgmb> helpme: yes. What's the problem?
22:52	<helpme> the problem with acpi on old machine
22:52	i want to disable it using dhcp option option-129 "acpi=off"; but it never read that. how?
22:55	wpgmb: how you set your dhcp.conf? i mean for making option option-129 readable?
22:56	<wpgmb> helpme: I don't have any issues with it, so don't bother with it. Are you booting from a floppy and you're having issues?
22:57	<helpme> i am booting from hard drive
22:58	i have that issue because my client is old machine, which not support acpi
23:00	<wpgmb> helpme: I'm missing something... you're booting from a harddrive, using etherboot?
23:05	<johnny> what are the specs of this old client?
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23:49	<helpme> tq
23:49	bye
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