IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 23 September 2019 (all times are UTC)
| 00:05 | <vagrantc> some...
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| 00:05 | oh well
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| 06:04 | <elenigioti> Καλημέρα σας. Άλκη έχεις χρόνο να λύσουμε το θέμα της εγκατάστασης στο laptop;
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| 06:05 | <alkisg> Καλημέρα elenigioti, ναι αμέ, κάνε vnc:
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| 06:05 | !vnc-edide
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| 06:05 | <ltsp> vnc-edide: To share your screen with me, open Epoptes → Help menu → Remote support → Host: srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr, and click the Connect button
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| 06:05 | <alkisg> !vnc-dide
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| 06:05 | <ltsp> vnc-dide: To share your screen with me, run this: sudo apt-get --yes install x11vnc; x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr - this is a reverse connection, it doesn't need port forwarding etc.
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| 06:05 | <alkisg> Το δεύτερο
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| 06:05 | sudo apt install x11vnc; x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr
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| 06:05 | Από το live cd
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| 06:05 | <elenigioti> άλκη είμαι από windows. απ ότι θυμάμαι στο ubuntu δεν μου λειτουργεί το wifi
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| 06:05 | <alkisg> Χρειάζεσαι καλώδιο για να δω
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| 06:06 | Δεν έχει LAN; Μόνο wifi;
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| 06:06 | <elenigioti> χμ οκ δώσε μου 2 λπετά
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| 06:06 | <alkisg> OK
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| 06:44 | <alkisg> Latest news about the NFS speedup: https://github.com/ltsp/ltsp/issues/27#issuecomment-533976774
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| 06:45 | I expect that the first two lines in that table are the same for NBD too
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| 06:45 | I.e. for multiple clients, a similar workaround would greatly benefit NBD/SSHFS users
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| 06:48 | ...meh, all those years we had double LAN traffic than what was necessary :/
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| 06:51 | <vagrantc> sshfs too? wow.
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| 06:51 | alkisg: it'll make ltsp19 look that much better :)
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| 06:51 | <alkisg> Yeah everything except nfs defaulted to 128 KB, which is too large readahead for networked file systems
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| 06:52 | NFS defaulted to 15 MB, which was why it was so laggy that I didn't use it in 12.04 and switched to sshfs
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| 06:52 | (pitty, had I known back then, we wouldn't even switch to sshfs :D)
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| 06:53 | *ever
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| 06:56 | * alkisg wants to test if that will also speed up mksquashfs | |
| 06:57 | <alkisg> or some "nocache" variant...
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| 06:57 | Kernel caching needs 25% of a pentium 4 cpu; it's a whole lot just for book keeping
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| 06:58 | <vagrantc> could build the squashfs with eatmydata
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| 06:59 | <alkisg> Ah I'm talking about read caching, not write caching
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| 06:59 | That's the amazing part, that read caching can cause so much trouble
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| 06:59 | <fiesh> alkisg: rw,vers=4.2,rsize=1048576,wsize=1048576,namlen=255,hard,proto=tcp,timeo=600,retrans=2,sec=sys,clientaddr=192.168.3.115,local_lock=none,addr=192.168.3.1
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| 06:59 | <alkisg> fiesh: cat /sys/devices/virtual/bdi/*/read_ahead_kb
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| 07:00 | <vagrantc> alkisg: curious
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| 07:00 | <alkisg> If you see something other than 128 there, this device has a problem
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| 07:00 | Usually, 15360, the default NFS 15 MB readahead
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| 07:00 | <fiesh> alkisg: firefox takes 9.5s to start over NFS here
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| 07:00 | <alkisg> fiesh: and with the patches it might need 4s
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| 07:00 | <fiesh> alkisg: 128 and 15360
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| 07:01 | <alkisg> Right, try echo 128 > that file that has 15360
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| 07:01 | Or even better echo 4 > ...
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| 07:01 | <fiesh> so 4 in all of them?
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| 07:01 | <alkisg> No, just the nfs one, the one that had 15360
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| 07:01 | Well... if the other one is sshfs, you can try that one too
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| 07:01 | <fiesh> oh ok all NFS ones, we have a bunch ;)
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| 07:02 | <alkisg> The new nfs default will be 128, so just put everything to 128 and test,
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| 07:03 | while the *ltsp19* default for all involved file systems will be 4
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| 07:03 | Which then lowers the network traffic to less than half :O
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| 07:04 | <fiesh> wow
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| 07:04 | less than 2s
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| 07:04 | fml
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| 07:05 | <alkisg> :)
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| 07:05 | <fiesh> with 4
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| 07:05 | I'll test 128
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| 07:05 | <alkisg> For one client, it should be similar
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| 07:05 | But if you run multiple clients, it'll save time AFTER it saves network traffic
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| 07:05 | Which you can't easily reproduce with 1 client only
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| 07:05 | <fiesh> yeah no difference noticable
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| 07:05 | with one client that is
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| 07:06 | the difference is crazy
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| 07:06 | <alkisg> I really wonder how all those NFS maintainers etc didn't fix it for 10+ years :/
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| 07:06 | <fiesh> yeah that's quite startling
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| 07:07 | when's the bug fix going to come officially?
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| 07:07 | cos setting up a workaround for this might be worthwhile...
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| 07:07 | <alkisg> I guess in kernel 5.5 or something, while for ltsp19, in a day...
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| 07:07 | For ltsp5, it'll never make it
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| 07:08 | <fiesh> wait so does setting the rsize and wsize have the same effect?
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| 07:08 | for then one could just change the fstab entries?
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| 07:09 | <alkisg> Not exactly, it makes it a bit better, like 80% better
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| 07:09 | Because smaller packets are always used (bad) and the cache is still 15*rsize, which is still large
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| 07:09 | <fiesh> hmm I guess I could also write a shell script that changes the read_ahead_kb values during start-up
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| 07:10 | <alkisg> Right, also note that if you're using block devices (like ltsp uses loop devices for root), then you need it there too
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| 07:10 | Keep an eye open in the recent ltsp git commits, I'll commit something today or tomorrow
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| 07:10 | ..that you could probably use
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| 07:10 | <fiesh> I could just write a script that checks every read_ahead_kb value and sets those that are 15360 to 128?
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| 07:11 | <alkisg> Yes, but that won't save the traffic of multiple clients
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| 07:11 | <fiesh> hmm
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| 07:11 | <alkisg> So it'll be "new nfs default good" but not "new ltsp19 default good"
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| 07:11 | <fiesh> wait so there's more than the kernel patch?
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| 07:11 | <alkisg> The kernel patch makes nfs the same as local file systems
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| 07:11 | It was waaaay worse
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| 07:12 | LTSP19 will try to make all network file systems use 4k instead of 128k
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| 07:12 | which should be a *lot* better for multiple clients
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| 07:12 | As it saves *more than half the network traffic*
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| 07:12 | <fiesh> ah ok
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| 07:41 | <alkisg> FSTAB_NFS="server:/home/nfs /home nfs defauls,nolock 0 0"
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| 07:41 | Does anyone know if the "defaults" word has a meaning there, or it should be just "nolock"?
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| 07:46 | <vagrantc> defaults would be better than defauls
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| 07:49 | i have definitely seen behavior on some systems where leaving out defaults will change the behavior, but it's filesystem and/or device dependent
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| 07:49 | and it's been ages since i've experimented with that sort of thing...
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| 07:49 | i'd err on the side of leaving "defaults" in.
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| 07:57 | <alkisg> OK, ty for the typo too, this was from the man page, people might have had a bad time if using copy/paste from there :)
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| 07:58 | <vagrantc> heh :)
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| 18:37 | <alkisg> fiesh: https://github.com/ltsp/ltsp/blob/master/ltsp/common/ltsp/55-images.sh#L339
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| 18:37 | You call set_readahead either without parameters, or with a specific mount point, e.g. /home
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| 18:37 | Without any parameters it handles all NFS mounts
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| 19:13 | <meo> hello
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| 19:43 | <alkisg> hello
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| 19:46 | <highvoltage> howdy
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| 19:47 | <uumas> hiya
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| 19:53 | <Hyperbyte> hi
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| 19:54 | <vagrantc> greetings
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| 20:03 | <fiesh> alkisg: ah nice
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| 20:03 | alkisg: thanks
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| 20:34 | <vagrantc> alkisg: does ltsp19 have issues with "non-standard" shells?
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