IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 19 March 2013 (all times are UTC)
| 00:12 | jammcq has left IRC (jammcq!~jam@c-69-245-75-255.hsd1.mi.comcast.net, Quit: leaving) | |
| 00:29 | <Enslaver> Can we add a link to my RHEL rpm version on http://www.ltsp.org/download/ ?
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| 00:32 | <ogra_> Enslaver, http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation seems more appropriate
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| 00:32 | but a hint that there are RH packages should be on the front page indeed
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| 00:33 | * ogra_ has no say though ... just a gut feeling | |
| 00:33 | <Enslaver> well if i were looking to download ltsp, i'd goto ltsp and click download
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| 00:34 | <ogra_> did you try any of the other distro links there yet ?
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| 00:35 | (and did you read the text)
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| 00:35 | <Enslaver> yes
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| 00:35 | they link to distro
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| 00:35 | <ogra_> to the std. distro iso downloads
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| 00:35 | <Enslaver> this will link to the epel repo
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| 00:35 | <ogra_> but then the text would be totally wrong
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| 00:36 | i would add a RH download link to the front page and the detailed install links to the install wikipage
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| 00:36 | to not break the scheme
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| 00:36 | or redesign the scheme ...
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| 00:37 | but mixing it in like that seems wrong ... again, i have no say in ltsp anymore ... others might think different :)
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| 00:38 | <Enslaver> i'd prefer it redesigned, i'll talk to alk and hyper when they get back
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| 00:39 | <ogra_> my ltsp days are long ago... just a lurker here :)
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| 00:39 | <Enslaver> you don't love us anymore? :(
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| 00:39 | <ogra_> not true ... i'll be at BTS this year :)
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| 00:40 | <Enslaver> I might make it as well, depends on the dates
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| 00:40 | <ogra_> i just dont have the time and moved into the arm world for the last few years
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| 00:41 | <sbalneav> hmmm. Might work... might work...
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| 00:41 | * ogra_ would love to spend a litte time on ltsp once again, but i fear i wont recognize any of the code anymore :) | |
| 00:42 | <ogra_> sbalneav, wrong term ...
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| 00:42 | s/might/will/
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| 00:42 | :)
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| 00:42 | <Enslaver> its just like riding a bike
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| 00:43 | just more black and white
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| 00:43 | <ogra_> well, if you built the bike and the pedals suddenly have to be used backwards ....
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| 00:44 | (and you havent ridden a bike in years)
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| 00:45 | <sbalneav> Miiiiiiiiiight work.
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| 00:45 | * sbalneav in deep thought about localdevs | |
| 00:45 | <ogra_> http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation
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| 00:45 | oops
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| 00:45 | http://lwn.net/Articles/543355/rss
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| 00:45 | yay
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| 00:49 | <Enslaver> ogra_: You could always help test my rhel ltsp release and learn the new ways of the force =)
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| 00:49 | <ogra_> hahaha
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| 00:49 | i used my last RH with 4.2
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| 00:49 | <Enslaver> The dark side is the new way
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| 00:49 | <ogra_> i will use it again if lennart is gone
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| 00:49 | promised
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| 00:50 | <Enslaver> whats a lennart?
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| 00:50 | <ogra_> Mr. pulseaudio ... Mr. systemd ... and Mr. avahi
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| 00:51 | <Enslaver> so thats a person?
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| 00:51 | <ogra_> heh, you use RH and dont know lennart poettering ?
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| 00:51 | thats surprising
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| 00:52 | <Enslaver> I don't use RH
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| 00:53 | sorry i should have said el6 based ltsp release =)
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| 00:53 | <ogra_> whats el6 ?
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| 00:54 | i thought thats a redhat thing
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| 00:54 | <Enslaver> el6 based
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| 00:54 | rh based i mean
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| 00:54 | like ubuntu is debian based i guess
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| 00:54 | err i think
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| 00:55 | <ogra_> ah, trhe artist formerly known as k12linux !
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| 00:55 | <Enslaver> =)
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| 00:55 | its enslavux now
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| 00:55 | <ogra_> heh
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| 00:55 | <Enslaver> or wait, enslavix?
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| 00:56 | bestdistroeverux
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| 01:04 | ogra_: grab scientific linux =)
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| 01:55 | <Enslaver> is ltsp-config one day going away or becoming module based like build-client?
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| 02:22 | <cpm__bis> Hi everybody. LTSP installed on Debian squeeze. I get successfully the LDM prompt. But when I enter good login and good password, it failed.
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| 02:23 | I enter on tty1 to watch the ldm.log and I see : The authenticity of host ... can't be established
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| 02:24 | and just below, there is the ssh request : ssh -Y -t -M -S /var/run/ldm_socket_....
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| 02:24 | When I try this command in console, it failed.
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| 02:25 | Because my user can't write in /var/log/
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| 02:25 | ssh -Y -t -M -S /var/run/ldm_socket_XXXX_172.16.0.3 myuser@172.16.0.3 ...
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| 02:26 | It failed because user myuser has no permission to write in /var/run on server.
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| 02:26 | So, what is my problem? Any idea friends?
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| 02:27 | (oups, I wrote /var/log but no, it is /var/run)
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| 02:29 | If I remove the -S parameter, I succed to connect to the server from the thin client.
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| 03:10 | Parker955 is now known as Parker955_Away | |
| 03:23 | <cpm__bis> I done another try removing the -M parameter and it runs well. So what?
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| 03:26 | Ok, then it seems that it is the -M parameter which is the problem.
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| 03:31 | So, why the -M parameter give login failed?
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| 03:44 | Have a good night. Write me solutions, I come back later :-)
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| 04:24 | <cpm__bis> Hi vnc786, alexqwesa
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| 04:25 | I have a failed login with ssh -Y -t -M -S because -M give failed. Any idea?
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| 04:32 | <vnc786> cpm__bis: -v verbose mode try this to debug ...
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| 04:47 | alkisg has joined IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) | |
| 04:52 | <cpm__bis> vnc786, good idea but no more information got.
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| 04:52 | muxserver_listen bind(): Permission denied
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| 04:52 | and juste before : Authentication succeeded (password)
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| 04:53 | <alkisg> cpm__bis: ssh -Y -t -M -S /var/run/ldm_socket_XXXX_172.16.0.3 myuser@172.16.0.3 ... ==> that command is run by root locally on the client
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| 04:53 | Are you too running it as root?
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| 04:53 | <cpm__bis> no
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| 04:53 | <alkisg> " It failed because user myuser has no permission to write in /var/run on server." ==> not on the server. On the client.
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| 04:54 | cpm__bis: can you login as root locally on the client console?
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| 04:54 | <cpm__bis> yes, you are right. It is not the -S parameter.
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| 04:55 | alkisg, I am connected with a local user. Shall i modify the .../ltsp/i386/etc/shadow file?
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| 04:55 | <alkisg> !screen_08
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| 04:55 | <ltsp> screen_08: To get a root shell on a Debian thin client, put SCREEN_07=ldm, SCREEN_08=shell and SCREEN_DEFAULT=07 to lts.conf.
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| 04:55 | <cpm__bis> right
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| 04:56 | <alkisg> (or you can issue `passwd` in the chroot, to unlock the root account)
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| 04:57 | <cpm__bis> the SCREEN_08=shell seems to be an elegant way.
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| 05:04 | ok, you are really right. With root user on thin client, the ssh -Y -t -M -S running well.
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| 05:04 | Thank you for this tips.
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| 05:04 | <alkisg> cpm__bis: now try this:
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| 05:05 | as root on the client:
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| 05:05 | ssh user@server
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| 05:05 | Replace user with an existing user
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| 05:05 | Leave server exactly as written
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| 05:05 | Don't substitute it with another name or ip
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| 05:05 | When you do that, do you get a prompt for trusting keys?
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| 05:05 | <cpm__bis> no
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| 05:05 | <alkisg> And are you able to login?
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| 05:06 | (to the server via ssh)
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| 05:06 | <cpm__bis> ssh: Could not resolve hostname server: Name or service not know
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| 05:06 | <alkisg> OK, there's the problem
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| 05:06 | Next try:
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| 05:06 | vi /etc/hosts
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| 05:06 | And put the IP of the server there
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| 05:06 | <cpm__bis> but ssh myuser@172.16.0.3 the question is there and I can login well
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| 05:06 | <alkisg> with the name "server"
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| 05:06 | E.g. 172.16.0.3 server
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| 05:07 | Save, exit, try again the `ssh user@server` command
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| 05:07 | <cpm__bis> ho, sorry
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| 05:07 | <alkisg> When that succeeds, then try from ldm
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| 05:07 | <cpm__bis> I enter the ssh command on the server :****>
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| 05:07 | <alkisg> Ah
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| 05:07 | <cpm__bis> I try again on thin client
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| 05:07 | <alkisg> OK
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| 05:07 | <cpm__bis> ssh myuser@server ask me the question
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| 05:07 | <alkisg> Accept the keys
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| 05:08 | Are you able to login?
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| 05:08 | <cpm__bis> yes
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| 05:08 | <alkisg> Now press alt+ctrl+f7 and try from ldm
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| 05:11 | <cpm__bis> It is running WELLLLLLLL
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| 05:12 | raaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
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| 05:12 | <alkisg> cpm__bis: it's not permanent
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| 05:12 | Your problem was ltsp-update-keys on the server
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| 05:12 | !ltsp-update-sshkeys
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| 05:12 | <ltsp> ltsp-update-sshkeys: If you changed your server IP, you need to run ltsp-update-sshkeys, and if you're using NBD (Ubuntu) you also need ltsp-update-image afterwards
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| 05:12 | <alkisg> (don't run ltsp-update-image, that's for ubuntu)
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| 05:12 | Run ltsp-update-sshkeys on the server, and reboot the client
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| 05:12 | <cpm__bis> I did ltsp-update-sshkeys a lot (I am on Debian squeeze)
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| 05:13 | oki
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| 05:13 | <alkisg> If it doesn't work after ltsp-update-sshkeys + client reboot, then maybe you need to restart your server sshd?
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| 05:14 | <cpm__bis> oki
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| 05:14 | before you come, I done ltsp-build-client with --arch i386, is it possible that fixed my issue?
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| 05:15 | <alkisg> You got a prompt with ssh myuser@server, so no it was not fixed
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| 05:15 | <cpm__bis> right
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| 05:21 | I done ltsp-update-sshkeys and reboot the thin client, and now login ldm failed
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| 05:21 | but if on screen 8, I do ssh myuser@server one time, then ldm login runs well
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| 05:21 | Is this help?
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| 05:21 | <alkisg> cpm__bis: try rebooting your server, or restarting sshd
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| 05:25 | <cpm__bis> /etc/init.d/ssh restart ; done ; reboot my thinclient and then ldm login failed
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| 05:26 | <alkisg> It appears that ltsp-update-sshkeys has some bug and doesn't work well in your environment
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| 05:26 | It'll need troubleshooting
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| 05:26 | * alkisg needs to go though, bbl | |
| 05:27 | <cpm__bis> ok, thank you for your help
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| 05:27 | Now, I have a better idea about this issue.
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| 05:27 | Have a good day! :-)
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| 06:09 | <bakytn> hey! do you know why in FAT CLIENTS you can't rigth click on Desktops and see any icon?
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| 06:10 | <vnc786> bakytn: u asking about kde or gnome ?
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| 06:11 | <bakytn> vector, GNOME (sorry)
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| 06:11 | vnc786, GNOME (sorry)
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| 06:11 | I tried other xsessions though, the same sh*t
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| 06:12 | kumar has joined IRC (kumar!b7522f02@gateway/web/freenode/ip.183.82.47.2) | |
| 06:12 | <bakytn> I tried to remove all .gnome2* .local etc folders to allow GNOME generate them again - the same
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| 06:13 | I thought may be anybode already encountered this before
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| 06:13 | <kumar> How to configure dhcp falover in ltsp ubuntu
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| 06:13 | <vnc786> on my fat clients i can create files on desktop ..(ubunut 12.04 --gnome)....
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| 06:13 | <bakytn> kumar, I guess DHCP failover and LTSP are not dependant very much. So if you can tune DHCP failover you can use the same techniques to tune failover on TLSP
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| 06:14 | vnc786, ok. I think may I did somethign wrong and forgot it. Anyway, thanks
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| 06:14 | <kumar> okay
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| 06:14 | <bakytn> kumar, you just make DHCP failover and specify TFTP server, that's it
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| 06:15 | <kumar> But I have configured one ltsp cluster with a load balancer and two app servers...but if incase the load balancer fails then i should have back up server for load balancer
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| 06:15 | <bakytn> you could even have two DHCP's at the same time (but you gotta share leases, though)
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| 06:16 | <kumar> so the reason, I am planning to have dhcp failove if dhcp fails then it switch over to another
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| 06:16 | <bakytn> yes, pretty much standard reason for any failovers ;)
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| 06:17 | kumar, do you want active-active failover or active-passive?
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| 06:17 | <kumar> client until unless boots until it recives a ip address from dhcp ..so, if i fails ..then it can get from other
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| 06:17 | active-active
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| 06:18 | <bakytn> kumar, btw hwo did you set up your cluster? which documentation did you use?
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| 06:19 | kumar, what you can do is, to run 2 DHCP' servers at the same time. It's not a problem
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| 06:19 | kumar, you can tune them, however, to use different scopes if you want
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| 06:19 | kumar, (actually it's recommended to use scopes)
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| 06:19 | kumar, that's it. pretty much straightforward
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| 06:20 | http://serverfault.com/questions/64434/setting-up-a-secondary-dhcp-server-for-failover
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| 06:20 | <kumar> okay I will paste the link for cluster wait
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| 06:22 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSP-Cluster
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| 06:24 | <bakytn> kumar, it's so old. Did it work for you? Which Ubuntu have you used?
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| 06:25 | <kumar> ya it is working so fine
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| 06:25 | and I have also added active directory also to it
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| 06:25 | <bakytn> kumar, have you used recent Ubuntu's?
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| 06:26 | <kumar> hmmm ya 12.04 I user but unable to configure clusters
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| 06:32 | wht do u say my idea of dhcp failover will work or not i to dont know but want to have opnion of you all ..so that practically i will have to work on this
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| 06:32 | <bakytn> kumar, idea is very simple. Read any doc about any DHCP failover. And just apply on LTSP
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| 06:32 | set
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| 06:33 | up
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| 06:33 | <kumar> but it is not picking the dhcp failove file ....do u have any information about features that dhcp have
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| 06:35 | <bakytn> kumar, what is "dhcp failover file"
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| 06:36 | <kumar> baktyn it is not picking it if write anythihg other than scope and subnet
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| 06:37 | unable to find the problem
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| 06:49 | <bakytn> are there any good articles on how to make fat clients faster?
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| 06:49 | <work_alkisg> bakytn: they should be on par with local (standalone) installations
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| 06:49 | <bakytn> my devices are powerful enough (dual core 1.6ghz, 1Gb ram) but still fat clients are not responsive enough when it comes to User Experience
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| 06:49 | work_alkisg is now known as alkisg | |
| 06:50 | <bakytn> alkisg, what does it mean exactly?
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| 06:50 | <alkisg> So, boot one of your clients with a local installation and another as ltsp fat client
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| 06:50 | And try to locate any differences
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| 06:50 | If you find that e.g. fat clients are slower, then it's an LTSP issue
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| 06:50 | If not, you can just ask "ubuntu/linux/etc is slow, can I make it faster"?
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| 06:51 | Which is a completely different question and unrelated to ltsp...
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| 06:51 | <bakytn> alkisg, right. But with Fat Clients devices are still communicate with server, right?
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| 06:51 | <alkisg> For the remote disk, yeah
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| 06:51 | <bakytn> alkisg, how it works with swaps, tmp files? are they located at RAM?
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| 06:52 | <alkisg> With 1 gb ram you have no swap
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| 06:52 | tmp files are in client ram, yes
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| 06:53 | <bakytn> alkisg, so basically after Fat Client boots, minimum of client-server communication exist, right?
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| 06:53 | <alkisg> Disk communication occurs
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| 06:53 | <bakytn> alkisg, only the fact that home folder is on the server, am I correct?
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| 06:53 | <alkisg> No
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| 06:53 | When you want to load openoffice, you need about 120 MB of data
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| 06:54 | I.e. the program and its libraries
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| 06:54 | <bakytn> alkisg, and it loads over the network?
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| 06:54 | <alkisg> That is read from the server
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| 06:54 | Yes
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| 06:54 | <bakytn> alkisg, ok
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| 06:54 | <alkisg> A fat client is similar to a client booted from a usb disk
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| 06:54 | Except that instead of usb, it's a network disk
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| 06:54 | And the server caches the reads, so it's a bit like a slow SSD disk
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| 06:55 | Very low seek times but a bit low bandwidth as well
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| 06:55 | All in all, fat clients performance should be quite similar to local installations
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| 06:56 | So if you don't have configuration/network etc problems, and you think it's slow, it's just linux that is slow on your clients (or your clients not good enough for it)
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| 06:56 | <bakytn> alkisg, my problem strange... it all work fine, apps, browsing, video playbacks etc. The problem is only about UX. I thought it's a xsession related but I tried everyting GNOME, KDE, LXDE, Cinnamon. etc
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| 06:56 | alkisg, but what I must do right now, is to install some desktop directly on the device to compare
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| 06:57 | <alkisg> Right. Or on an external usb disk.
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| 06:59 | <bakytn> alkisg, what am I thinking about right now is to use a thin client setup but install all other apps as a local apps. This might work too I guess
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| 07:04 | alkisg, sorry one more question. Can I just copy NBD images and chroot (i.e: i386 and images) folders to another completely independent server or they must be on an LTSP server?
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| 07:08 | <vnc786> i tried xfce on amd dual core4gb http://picpaste.com/sc-WyBV9J2B.png
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| 07:10 | <bakytn> vnc786, how is it? working good?
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| 07:10 | <alkisg> bakytn: local apps vs fat clients is the same thing
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| 07:10 | Don't expect them to go faster
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| 07:11 | You can transfer the nbd image and tftp dir to another server, yeah
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| 07:11 | <bakytn> alkisg, apps working great, UX is not as fat clients, so having UX running on Server (xsession etc.).. I will test anyway :D thaks
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| 07:12 | <alkisg> bakytn: what is UX?
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| 07:12 | <bakytn> alkisg, user experience
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| 07:12 | alkisg, in my situatino is user desktop experience
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| 07:12 | <alkisg> ...it doesn't make sense though :)
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| 07:12 | UX == desktop, firefox, flash, whatever
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| 07:12 | But you say apps run fine
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| 07:13 | <bakytn> alkisg, if I transfer those dirs to another Linux, what I need is just a tftp server and no ltsp related software, correct?
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| 07:13 | <alkisg> Maybe you're only talking about the Desktop Environment, DE ?
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| 07:13 | <bakytn> alkisg, yes in my sitaution UX is only about Desktop :D
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| 07:13 | <alkisg> tftp and nbd server
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| 07:13 | <bakytn> alkisg, ok!
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| 07:13 | <alkisg> If e.g. firefox is going fast and the desktop is slow, troubleshoot or change the desktop
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| 07:13 | * alkisg prefers gnome-fallback session | |
| 07:14 | <vnc786> alkisg: can u see the image which i uploaded ...!! u guided me to use different DE..and i did ...
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| 07:14 | <bakytn> alkisg, yeah need to test test and test. But I am happy that browsing is pretty much smooth (local app)
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| 07:15 | <alkisg> vnc786: I've never used xfce but it seems like something is missing
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| 07:15 | Try logging in on the server directly
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| 07:15 | Or is this fat clients?
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| 07:16 | Check ~/.xsession-errors too
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| 07:16 | <vnc786> i did in chroot apt-get install xfce and also xubuntu-desktop......
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| 07:16 | <alkisg> There might be missing dependencies
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| 07:17 | Compare your chroot packages with e.g. a xubuntu live cd packages
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| 07:17 | bbiab
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| 07:19 | <vnc786> bakytn: does u r fat clients feels little slow when doing some multitasking(LO, thunderbird,firefox, etc) ..is that what u r saying ..?
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| 07:21 | <bakytn> vnc786, firefox, LO working fine
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| 07:22 | <vnc786> i am not specific to that only but asking overall ?
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| 07:37 | <bakytn> guys, how many clients do you have booting at the same time? how much it takes?
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| 07:39 | <alkisg> bakytn: network speed?
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| 07:39 | gigabit server, 100 mbps clients?
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| 07:39 | It shouldn't need more than 30 seconds for a fat client, from pxelinux to the ldm screen
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| 07:43 | <bakytn> alkisg, yes
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| 07:44 | alkisg, they are booting pretty fast! I have measured and overall traffic was about 250 megabytes
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| 07:44 | alkisg, for one device
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| 07:45 | alkisg, so in my rough calculations about 20 simult clietns can boot at the same time with 100mbps client and 1Gb server
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| 07:46 | in terms of traffic I guess thin client setup would be more efficient?
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| 07:48 | <alkisg> No
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| 07:48 | Up to LDM it should be the same
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| 07:48 | About 50 MB of traffic
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| 07:48 | For each client
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| 07:49 | <bakytn> alkisg, but after logging in
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| 07:49 | <alkisg> After login thin clients generally require more bandwidth
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| 07:49 | <bakytn> alkisg, oh
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| 07:50 | <alkisg> E.g. a full screen youtube flash video on an HD monitor needs 2.5 Gbps for a thin client, or 2.5 Mbps for a fat
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| 07:50 | thins => 1000 times more there
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| 07:50 | While, loading libreoffice is about the same until it loads
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| 07:53 | <bakytn> alkisg, with Youtube video tehre would be double traffic right? from Youtube to server and from server to client. but are you sure about 2.5gbps?
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| 07:54 | <alkisg> 1920*1080*32bpp*30fpp=1 990 656 000
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| 07:54 | Sorry, it's 2 Gbps
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| 07:55 | Double traffic => on thins it would be 2 Gpbs + 2 Mbps, not double traffice
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| 07:55 | On fats, it depends if you're doing NAT or not
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| 07:56 | <bakytn> correct
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| 07:58 | <Hyperbyte> Right, but there's this xvideo plugin for Firefox
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| 07:59 | Which solves all your problems.
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| 07:59 | :)
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| 07:59 | Or YouTube problems, at least.
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| 07:59 | <alkisg> Which works or breaks every 2 weeks
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| 07:59 | And needs updates very often etc etc
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| 07:59 | <Hyperbyte> Really?
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| 08:00 | I haven't had problems with it, although I have since I tried it for a few months, removed it.
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| 08:00 | Or more precise, it disappeared when I nuked my Firefox profile and haven't brought it back. ;-)
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| 08:02 | <alkisg> It also doesn't play all videos
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| 08:02 | <bakytn> 2gpbs = 244 kbytes per second
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| 08:02 | <alkisg> ?
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| 08:02 | MB you mean?
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| 08:03 | 2 gbps means that you would need 2 NICs on the server and on the client just to serve a single client
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| 08:03 | In other words, impossible with the current hardware limitations
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| 08:04 | <bakytn> ah..damn sorry
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| 08:04 | right
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| 08:04 | I used 2 mlns not billions
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| 08:04 | <alkisg> In networking the measurements are usually done in bits
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| 08:04 | gigabit network, gigabit card etc
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| 08:04 | <bakytn> alkisg, I know I just wanted to convert ;)
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| 08:04 | :-P
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| 10:21 | <andygraybeal> morrrning
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| 10:39 | <vnc786> how this works ? fat clients get booted(amd64.img) at (let say) 10.00 am and if add/remove some application at 11.00am and rebuild image then fat clients which get booted after 11.00 am will get new image but still the fat clients which got image at 10.00 am are working fine....
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| 13:32 | <||cw> vnc786: ndb clients? the image file's inodes on the filesystem don't actually get deleted/unlinked until it's no longer in use. the active clients keep the inodes in use
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| 13:32 | nbd^
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| 13:32 | if you check free disk space, this will be reflected.
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| 13:43 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 13:50 | <jammcq> good morning friends
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| 13:50 | <sbalneav> jammcq: Morning!
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| 13:50 | <jammcq> Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 13:53 | <sbalneav> alkisg: ping, you about?
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| 14:00 | <cpm__bis> Hi everybody. LTSP installed on Debian squeeze. There is only one issue. LDM login failed. On the local thin client SCREEN_08=shell, if I do ssh myuser@server, then the LDM login succeed. Any idea? Heeeeelp! :o)
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| 14:07 | <vnc786> cpm__bis: i dont know about thin client but i faced same issue on fat clients i was able to ssh username@server but thru GUI i was not able the solution was that /tmp directory in chroot should have drwxrwxrwt perm..u might facing some issue related to permission ..
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| 14:08 | <sbalneav> cpm__bis: You might need to do the ltsp-update-sshkeys
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| 14:20 | <cpm__bis> vnc786, thx, permission on the local /tmp are right.
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| 14:20 | sbalneav, already done, without result.
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| 14:21 | The issue is when the thin client done ssh ... echo LTSPROCKS, it failed there.
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| 14:21 | <sbalneav> Do you locally customize .profile, .bashrc, etc?
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| 14:22 | <cpm__bis> If I do it manually and answer 'yes' to "Are you sure you want to continue connecting(yes/no)?", then it's running well.
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| 14:22 | <cpm__bis> sbalneav, none.
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| 14:22 | <sbalneav> If it's asking if you want to continue connecting to an ssh, is it first complaining about unknown host?
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| 14:23 | <cpm__bis> yes
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| 14:23 | <sbalneav> Because if it is, it's your ssh keys.
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| 14:24 | <sbalneav> ok, so you need to debug why ltsp-update-sshkeys isn't working for you/
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| 14:25 | Are you running an nbd chroot, or an nfs chroot?
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| 14:25 | <cpm__bis> nfs chroot
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| 14:25 | localy, I see /etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts
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| 14:26 | <sbalneav> so you run ltsp-update-sshkeys, and reboot the thin client, and it still doesn't know about the server?
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| 14:26 | <cpm__bis> it contains entry for "server"
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| 14:27 | but in ldm.log, the ssh try to reach the ip 172.16.0.3, not "server" (even if the ip of "server" is 172.16.0.3)
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| 14:27 | sbalneav, it is exactly that.
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| 14:29 | <sbalneav> what does your lts.conf file look like?
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| 14:30 | Can you pastebin it?
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| 14:30 | !paste
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| 14:30 | <ltsp> paste: try !pastebot
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| 14:30 | <sbalneav> !pastebot
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| 14:30 | <ltsp> pastebot: try !pastebin
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| 14:30 | <sbalneav> !pastebin
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| 14:30 | <ltsp> pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 14:34 | <cpm__bis> http://pastebin.com/bCDvSQ0v
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| 14:35 | This is the default one. I added the SCREEN entries to debug
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| 14:36 | | |
| 14:37 | in the ldm.log, I see ssh ... test@172.16.0.3
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| 14:37 | but this IP is not in the ssh_known_hosts
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| 14:37 | so when I do ssh test@172.16.0.3, it asks me confirm.
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| 14:38 | If I do ssh test@server, it not asks me to confirm.
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| 14:38 | <sbalneav> So, I'd add 172.16.0.3 into the ssh_known_hosts.
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| 14:39 | <cpm__bis> Hahahahahaah, so simple!
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| 14:39 | Yes, it is a simple and good solution.
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| 14:39 | I don't know I was focus on the normal way...
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| 14:39 | tsss
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| 14:40 | So, just for the fun. Did you know how config correctly to generate ssh ... test@server in replacement of ssh ...test@172.16.0.3... ?
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| 14:44 | <alkisg> sbalneav: hello!
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| 14:46 | cpm__bis: in recent LTSP versions, it tries to connect to @server. I don't know what version squeeze has. Try LDM_SERVER=server.
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| 14:49 | <cpm__bis> alkisg, hoooo, I check immediatly
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| 14:49 | <sbalneav> alkisg: ok, so I've done some thinking/playing the last day or so.
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| 14:51 | I think sshfs will work, but we're going to need something to do the automounting. I'm not sure udisks will work, since we need 2 bits of custom behaviour:
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| 14:51 | <cpm__bis> alkisg, Enjoy! It was that!!! Marvelous, my LTSP install is running well.
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| 14:51 | Thank you very much alkisg and sbalneav and vnc786.
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| 14:51 | <sbalneav> 1) We need an automounter that understands some LTSP variables, and calls a shell script when it mounts. That's so when the mount happens, we can inform the server.
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| 14:52 | <cpm__bis> Now I can move the server to the classroom. Teachers and students will be glad. :-)
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| 14:52 | <sbalneav> 2) We need an automounter that will mount with /media/userid/DEVICE, as opposed to /media/DEVICE, to maintain consistency between tc and fc.
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| 14:53 | So, I will do some work opposite that.
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| 14:53 | <alkisg> cpm__bis: note though that you shouldn't have to do that manually, ltsp-update-sshkeys should have made the IP connection work without you defining LDM_SERVER
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| 14:53 | sbalneav: about (1), I'm guessing that udisks and other tools will have a place where we can put hook scripts...
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| 14:54 | <sbalneav> They don't. I checked.
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| 14:54 | <cpm__bis> alkisg, hooo, I will chek the script.
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| 14:54 | <alkisg> Meh. So much for dbus and all the exciting technologies :D
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| 14:55 | sbalneav: so, we're sticking with our own udev rules?
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| 14:56 | <sbalneav> No.
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| 14:57 | We'll have our own automounter that uses udev/dbus.
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| 14:58 | https://github.com/LemonBoy/ldm
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| 14:58 | <sbalneav> This can probably be forked/adapted.
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| 15:00 | If we modify/adapt that lightweight device mounter, and couple it with sshfs, we should be able to do what we want. It already supports scripted callouts.
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| 15:00 | <markit> alkisg , Phantomas : hi, currently I use greek ppa for ltsp, but regarding epoptes, do you suggest me to use the specific epoptes ppa to have "the latest the greatest" or is too "experimetnal"? I would love to follow epoptes improvements more closely and have new features like miniature size modificable, multithread broadcast etc..
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| 15:01 | <alkisg> markit: we upload new stable epoptes versions to that ppa
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| 15:01 | So you don't need to add the other ppa as well
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| 15:02 | (as long as you're using lts releases...)
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| 15:02 | <markit> alkisg: I'm on 12.04
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| 15:02 | <alkisg> OK
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| 15:02 | <markit> so is "stable enough", ok, I'll add that ppa
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| 15:03 | alkisg: btw, I've seen discussion here about LightLDM, I've no clue of what I'm saying, just pointing you to SDDM just in case is of any interest for you: http://qt-apps.org/content/show.php/SDDM%3A+Simple+QML+Based+Display+Manager?content=156539
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| 15:03 | <alkisg> markit: you don't need both greek + epoptes ppa. Just greek ppa is enough.
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| 15:04 | <markit> alkisg: ah, sorry, "as long as..." ok, I thought the contrary (lts more conservative, other more updated)
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| 15:04 | <alkisg> QML is the new trend, let's see how that works out
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| 15:05 | * alkisg is also curious about how MIR will affect LTSP | |
| 15:05 | <markit> alkisg: btw, do you have any experience of pfsense or zeroshell? what would you suggest? I need (a friend of mine needs) dansguardian, access control, etc. and I would love put that stuff out of ltsp server, with a firewall between ltsp and the router
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| 15:05 | <alkisg> But I prefer Qt to GTK, it seems more mature
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| 15:05 | No experience
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| 15:06 | <sbalneav> None of the new "X Replacements" (Mir or Wayland) support protocol-over-ip, to my knowledge, so certainly I won't be adopting them, as they don't allow for true thin-client like what I run around here.
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| 15:07 | <markit> ok, last request for epoptes, but probably have already be filed, is have a visual clue on the miniature to know which one have the teacher screen broadcast active, i.e. if you do in "window mode" and a child closes that window by mistake, would love to be able to know what to activate again
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| 15:07 | <alkisg> sbalneav: I see org.freedesktop.UDisks on dbus, providing signals like "DeviceAdded()"
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| 15:07 | sbalneav: so a dbus listener would be all that's needed?
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| 15:08 | <markit> I've seen that with big screens the window mode broadcast is useful... in that window, half the 24" screen, the student sees what the teacher is doing, in the other half he tries to mimic
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| 15:08 | <sbalneav> Correct, that's what that url I pointed to does.
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| 15:08 | The code's not that big, plus it's doing things we may not need.
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| 15:09 | <alkisg> sbalneav: is udisks cross-distro enough? Or rhel-based distros are using something systemd-based there?
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| 15:10 | <sbalneav> systemd will be an issue we'll have to deal with, but one assumes that we can come up with at "systemd" listener.
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| 15:10 | I don't know, since none of the systems I'm interested in currently need systemd. I trust that interested parties will provide solutions.
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| 15:12 | <muppis> This is not really LTSP related, but nfs-booting anyway. In middle of booting, nic were it was booting is switched to totally different and can't find nfs root from there and, of course, causes kernel panic. :/
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| 15:13 | <markit> Phantomas: https://bugs.launchpad.net/epoptes/+bug/1157241 (better later than never ;P)
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| 15:17 | <alkisg> muppis: did you list the nic in /etc/network/interfaces as "manual"ly configured?
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| 15:18 | <muppis> alkisg, sure. Other host boots fine and never had this problem.
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| 15:18 | host/client/machine
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| 15:19 | <alkisg> And "totally different" means? Different ip?
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| 15:19 | <muppis> Different nic. There is no cable plugged in nic which it switches.
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| 15:20 | <alkisg> sbalneav: can you take a look at this ubuntu package? udisks-glue - simple automount daemon with support for user-defined actions
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| 15:21 | muppis: try IPAPPEND 2 in the kernel command line
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| 15:21 | *pxelinux.cfg, I meant
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| 15:21 | <sbalneav> alkisg: Even better; looks like there's one available. Yeah, if we can write stuff for that, perfect. I'll look.
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| 15:25 | <muppis> alkisg, does that work in non-ltsp systems?
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| 15:25 | <alkisg> yes, it's pxelinux, one of the tools that ltsp uses but not ltsp-specific
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| 15:25 | <muppis> Ok.
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| 15:27 | Machine is HP DL360p gen8. Takes about 2 min per POST. :(
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| 15:32 | No effect. It's still finds wrong nic as that where it was booting on.
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| 15:33 | <alkisg> muppis: that's on the initramfs, right? Do you get a busybox shell after that?
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| 15:34 | If so, cat /proc/cmdline and verify that the MAC address of the boot nic is listed there
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| 15:34 | <muppis> Yes, it's on initramfs. I don't get a shell after that. I get kernel panic.
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| 15:34 | <alkisg> muppis: try break=mount in pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 15:34 | You should get a shell before the mounting
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| 15:35 | <muppis> I've set --verbose debug=100 so I see the MAC and it's different.
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| 15:35 | <alkisg> Btw, ipappend 2 gets on a separate line, right?
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| 15:35 | Pastebin your pxelinux.cfg/default if unsure
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| 15:36 | <muppis> http://pastebin.com/g5S7VkX7
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| 15:39 | Hmm...
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| 15:42 | <muppis> http://pastebin.com/9hapMSJK -- It boots from eth1, where in this paste is presented as eth2. eth1 in paste is the wrong one.
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| 15:45 | <alkisg> muppis: remove the =
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| 15:45 | <sbalneav> I'm not exactly sure what consolekit requires in order to mark a session as "Active".
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| 15:45 | <alkisg> It's "ipappend 2", not "ipappend=2"
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| 15:46 | <muppis> yes.
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| 15:46 | http://pastebin.com/hj5mPHte -- This happens.
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| 15:48 | <alkisg> muppis: so, do you see BOOTIF in the `cat /proc/cmdline` output?
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| 15:49 | Finally, you can also try with "ipappend 3" instead of 2
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| 15:52 | <muppis> With ipappend 2 it works, but still nics are in wrong order.
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| 15:53 | <alkisg> The nic names are determined by udev rules
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| 15:55 | <muppis> It interlaces them. Two cards with 4 nics per each. They should be ordered by mac like eth0-3 from first card and eth4-7 from second, but now they are interlaced like eth0 from first and eth1 from second and so on.
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| 15:55 | <alkisg> sbalneav: I think if we use "su - user", then ck-list-sessions will list the session as active, as long as it's on the fgconsole
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| 15:56 | sbalneav: previously we didn't use `su`, so I had to resort to setting the CKCON* environment variables in X95-run-X-session
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| 15:58 | Btw, I think consolekit will go away in favor of logind...
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| 15:58 | So we might want to concentrate on that one
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| 15:59 | <sbalneav> What will we do for wheezy? It's what I'll be running here, hopefully, in a few months?
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| 16:01 | <muppis> Annoys a little when he leaves without a warning. ;)
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| 16:01 | Still can't complain about it.
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| 16:01 | <cpm__bis> I put my /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts there: http://pastebin.com/Hfn5cUHb This file was generated by ltsp-update-sshkeys. Do you confirm that "server" have to be replace by * when I run ltsp-update-sshkeys ?
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| 16:24 | I am using the package ltsp-server 5.4.2-2~bpo60+1 from Debian
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| 18:03 | <alkisg> 15:59<sbalneav> What will we do for wheezy? It's what I'll be running here, hopefully, in a few months?
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| 18:03 | ==> no idea, only vagrantc can answer that one :)
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| 18:04 | <ogra_> backports galore
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| 18:04 | <alkisg> sbalneav: so you no longer use ubuntu in any of your installations/home pcs?
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| 18:05 | <ogra_> i just read that backports in debian are officially supported now
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| 18:06 | <alkisg> ogra_: did I understand correctly that Unity is now to be written in QML? So, for e.g. 13.10 that MIR won't be there yet, we'll be able to run Unity on thin clients (2d accelleration only) again?
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| 18:06 | <ogra_> no
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| 18:06 | ubuntu touch is written in OML
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| 18:06 | *QML
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| 18:07 | ubuntu desktp wont change (yet ?!?)
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| 18:07 | <vagrantc> i'll make efforts to support backports
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| 18:07 | for wheezy
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| 18:07 | i usually do.
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| 18:07 | <alkisg> ogra_: ah, so MIR isn't a target for 14.04 for the desktop too?
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| 18:07 | <ogra_> alkisg, and you will always be able to use X it wont go away ... you will even be able to use X on top of Mir without issues
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| 18:08 | Mir just replaces the drivers and the compositor
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| 18:08 | <alkisg> X on top of MIR ==> too bloated for thin clients with 64 or 128 ram, we'll have to go fat on those
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| 18:08 | <ogra_> it wont be different to what you have today
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| 18:08 | most likely even faster and smaller
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| 18:08 | <alkisg> I just hope some good remote desktop solution will emerge for the composition era of linux...
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| 18:09 | <ogra_> X on top of Mir means the X protocol ... not the whole of X
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| 18:09 | you wont have to carry all the low level bloat
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| 18:09 | <sbalneav> alkisg: We have ubuntu here still, but I'm going to be phasing it out in favour of Debian.
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| 18:09 | <alkisg> ogra_: ah, so something like Xephyr now? Just a thin layer?
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| 18:09 | <ogra_> (and instead get the Mir C++ low level bloat i guess ;) )
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| 18:10 | yeah
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| 18:10 | the good stuff will be that you wont have to care for drivers at all anymore
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| 18:10 | no matter how good or bad wayland and mir are ... thats a massive advantage
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| 18:11 | <alkisg> Sure, reusing android drivers is a good thing... but I thought wayland also had plans for that
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| 18:11 | <ogra_> both talk directly to the kernel display drivers (and to lib GLES/EGL)
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| 18:11 | wayland dropped all android support they previously had
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| 18:12 | <alkisg> ogra_: also, is python now getting a bit deprecated for the ubuntu desktop in favor of javascript?
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| 18:12 | <ogra_> dunno i guess we'll still have tons of python ... that wont go away
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| 18:12 | <alkisg> But for new desktop apps, javascript/qml is suggested, right?
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| 18:13 | And c++/qml for the more advanced ones...
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| 18:13 | <ogra_> not atm, no
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| 18:13 | for ubuntu touch it is
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| 18:13 | they are completely distict things atm
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| 18:13 | *distinct
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| 18:13 | <alkisg> Ah, so the ubuntu sdk isn't for all devices, it's just for ubuntu touch...
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| 18:13 | <ogra_> right
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| 18:13 | <alkisg> Gotcha
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| 18:13 | <ogra_> eventually i suspect unity will become QML ...
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| 18:14 | but that wont stop you from running and developing Gtk apps for it
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| 18:14 | * alkisg prefers Qt as long as it's a "first class citizen"... | |
| 18:14 | <ogra_> like you dont need to be able to write compiz to have a desktop app today
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| 18:15 | its the layer that nobody but the unity team touches anyway that gets changed
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| 18:15 | everything around it will go on to work as before
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| 18:17 | there was so much FUD spread around Mir ...
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| 18:17 | * ogra_ had quite some sad days the last weeks | |
| 18:17 | <alkisg> Well, canonical didn't handle it good though
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| 18:18 | Telling people to focus on one thing, then secretly focusing on another for months
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| 18:18 | It's the worse thing about ubuntu; it's a moving target, changing course every few months
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| 18:20 | I really like the idea of using qt for the desktop and a layer that can reuse the android drivers for the graphics
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| 18:20 | I hope this one sticks and doesn't get dropped after a couple of years...
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| 18:21 | <ogra_> agreed, we didnt handle it well, but we also had issues in the past where we started something that had no code yet and were bvlamed for that
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| 18:22 | so the idea was to first have some code to present before revealing it to exactly not run into that trap again
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| 18:22 | <alkisg> I imagine there are political reasons for not using wayland for that too
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| 18:22 | <ogra_> which turned out to be a lot worse and even more full of lies and FUD
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| 18:22 | <alkisg> Not technical reasons
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| 18:22 | But anyways, I just hope it turns out for the best
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| 18:22 | <ogra_> well indeed
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| 18:22 | canonical now has its own systemd
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| 18:23 | * ogra_ is really curious how debian will havndle gnome installs in a year from now btw :) | |
| 18:24 | <alkisg> Why? Wrt systemd integration?
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| 18:24 | <ogra_> it will mean requiring systemd and wayland on the system level
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| 18:24 | gnome decided they will drop X support in favour of wayland with their next iteration ... and redhat/fedora is forcign userland gnome into systemd
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| 18:24 | <vagrantc> it's a newish kind of vendor lock-in.
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| 18:24 | <ogra_> yep
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| 18:25 | <vagrantc> after decades of compatibility, it seems like a lot of players have just decided to give up.
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| 18:25 | <ogra_> thats one reason for the move to Mir (teh political one you mentioned above)
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| 18:25 | <vagrantc> and implement what *they* believe to be the next incompatible way forward...
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| 18:26 | <ogra_> there are some massive design differences too between wayland and mir though ...
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| 18:26 | <alkisg> Wayland isn't controlled by redhat though, is it? I thought even intel contributes to it...
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| 18:26 | <ogra_> the majority of devs is fedora ...
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| 18:26 | like systemd (which today is also consolekit policykit and udev btw)
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| 18:26 | <alkisg> Ah, so they'd try to enforce their stuff like they do for systemd, got it
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| 18:27 | <ogra_> systemd will bite everyone long term
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| 18:27 | you wont have a standalone udev anymore
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| 18:28 | <cpm__bis> I put my /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts there: http://pastebin.com/Hfn5cUHb This file was generated by ltsp-update-sshkeys. Do you confirm that "server" have to be replace by * when I run ltsp-update-sshkeys ?
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| 18:28 | <alkisg> cpm__bis: in newer ltsp versions, the client tries to connect to "server", not to "ip"
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| 18:28 | Maybe you don't have a recent enough ldm version?
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| 18:28 | And you only have a very recent ltsp backport?
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| 18:29 | cpm__bis: run `ltsp-info` and put the result to pastebin
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| 18:29 | <cpm__bis> alkisg, surely, Debian squeeze with only backports...
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| 18:29 | <alkisg> vagrantc knows about the squeeze backports versions, /me is very fond of debian but doesn't have any deployments with it yet...
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| 18:30 | <alkisg> cpm__bis: but anyways if LDM_SERVER=server in lts.conf makes it work for you, I don't think you need to bother with that anymore...
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| 18:30 | <cpm__bis> http://pastebin.com/kJkG8H08
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| 18:31 | <vagrantc> cpm__bis: do you have backports both on server and in the chroot?
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| 18:31 | cpm__bis: ltsp-info
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| 18:31 | !pastebin | echo cpm__bis
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| 18:31 | <ltsp> cpm__bis pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 18:31 | <alkisg> cpm__bis: I think your ldm is too old, you should have 2:2.2.11-2~bpo60+1
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| 18:31 | And you have ldm 2:2.1.2-2
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| 18:31 | <cpm__bis> alkisg, allright, I wanted to know the normal procedure in anticipation a future installation.
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| 18:32 | <alkisg> (08:31:25 μμ) vagrantc: cpm__bis: do you have backports both on server and in the chroot? ==> I think that nailed it
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| 18:32 | You probably need to enable backports in your chroot too
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| 18:33 | <cpm__bis> alkisg, hooooo, yes, the chroot!
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| 18:41 | <cpm__bis> vagrantc, I note the good link.
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| 18:42 | <vagrantc> you need to specify --backports-mirror when building the chroot.
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| 18:42 | maybe some other things ... haven't tested it in a few months
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| 18:43 | * vagrantc should update the backports, too | |
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| 19:00 | <cpm__bis> alkisg, you were so right. backport parameter in ltsp-build-client solve my issue. Wonderful, now I am using a good version of ldm and I have no more error in ldm login.
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| 19:01 | * vagrantc really pondered making the backported package install backports by default ... but it was too complicated to code... | |
| 19:01 | <vagrantc> or at least, i didn't bother to put much time into it
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| 19:03 | <cpm__bis> My main page to help me in install was http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto
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| 19:04 | I would suggest to update it (Lenny -> Squeeze) and add the backports information. But I know it is a Debian wiki page.
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| 19:04 | (http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto is linked by http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation)
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| 19:04 | <vagrantc> i haven't given the wiki pages the attention they need...
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| 19:04 | although there's nothing really notably different in the default process between lenny and squeeze and wheezy
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| 19:05 | only the backports process is a little different.
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| 19:05 | <cpm__bis> Yes, I am agree. I was not lost reading it.
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| 19:06 | So, one line about backports should be very useful for next visitor. And it is perhaps a short task.
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| 19:06 | <vagrantc> cpm__bis: maybe you would like to take it on :)
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| 19:08 | <cpm__bis> vagrantc, it should be an honor. But I have no permission and not enought good english.
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| 19:09 | <vagrantc> cpm__bis: you should be able to create an account and start editing, your english sounds fine to me :)
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| 19:10 | <cpm__bis> Hooo, wiki accounts are "opened". So, ok, I will do it. And please, accept to check my changes :)
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| 19:12 | <vagrantc> cpm__bis: gladly
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| 19:12 | cpm__bis: thanks for contributing :)
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| 21:14 | <cpm__> vagrantc, done : http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto and http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP
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| 21:15 | It is very small improvement. I did the best that I can. Happy to contributing.
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| 21:16 | RMS said: "Sharing is good", but "Contribution is good" too! ;o)
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| 21:17 | <vagrantc> cpm__: contributing is a form of sharing :)
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| 21:17 | <cpm__> :o)
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| 21:17 | Thank you again for your help and congratulations for your work. It is useful and wonderful!
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| 21:20 | <vagrantc> glad you like it!
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| 22:57 | <Enslaver> http://www.etherboot.org/wiki/appnotes/cow
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