IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 6 February 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 11:05 | <Ahmuck> This channel has a draconian irc policy
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| 11:06 | anywho, fwiw, changing the compiz settings for only the user affected fixes the upside down letters issue.
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| 11:08 | <johnny> Ahmuck, ?
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| 11:11 | Ahmuck, it's not the channel that has any policy
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| 11:11 | it's the server
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| 11:12 | <Ahmuck> no other channel set's a ban on any of my nick or nick alisias except this channel
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| 11:12 | well, no other channel i'm in
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| 11:12 | this one if i'm Ahmuck-Sr won't even allow me to change my nick until i leave, then change and then re-joing
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| 11:13 | it's a channel setting
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| 11:15 | <alkisg> Ahmuck: are you talking about this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/441586
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| 11:16 | <Ahmuck> somewhat
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| 11:17 | the taskbar, menubar was in the correct position, but the lettering was flipped upside down
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| 11:17 | i've got a nvidia based mobo and gpu
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| 11:17 | <alkisg> Yeah, it's a problem with the nvidia proprietary drivers.
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| 11:17 | <Ahmuck> the server has a nvidia based mobo and gpu, so nothing is intel there
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| 11:18 | but turning the compiz settings off for myself rather than the server allowed the thin client to connect and the lettering was the same
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| 11:18 | i think it may be something monitor related as well?
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| 11:27 | alkisg: in other words, it's not really specific to the user, but specific to the machine thier logging into. i like compiz on the server (kinda fancy and all) however when logging in from my office, i can still run full featured desktop but must have compiz turned off. from the lab with older machines/monitors, it works fine
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| 11:46 | <alkisg> Ahmuck: yeah, what you describe is exactly on that bug.
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| 12:04 | <sbalneav> I was under the impression that the nick registration was turned on because the freenode servers were under attack.
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| 12:09 | <Ahmuck> in ltsp or on every channel?
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| 12:10 | i'm sooooo bored today
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| 12:12 | <sbalneav> I was under the impression it was all channels.
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| 12:13 | I have no clue who turned it on, or how to turn it off
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| 13:15 | <frederickjh> Hi all! Anyone know where to find the language codes to use with LDM_LANGUAGE in the lts.conf file?
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| 13:16 | <sbalneav> They're the standard language codes.
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| 13:17 | <frederickjh> And where would one find a list of them?
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| 13:17 | <sbalneav> Google
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| 13:18 | locale will also generate them for you
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| 13:18 | <frederickjh> Have you used the LDM_LANGUAGE tag in a lts.conf before.
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| 13:18 | <sbalneav> Yup
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| 13:18 | <frederickjh> What is locale?
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| 13:19 | a command line command?
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| 13:19 | <sbalneav> locale -a
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| 13:19 | <frederickjh> Thanks.
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| 13:19 | <sbalneav> that will list all your available installed locales
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| 13:20 | <frederickjh> So for Swiss German I would need to add LDM_LANGUAGE=de_CH.utf8 to my lts.conf?
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| 13:20 | Does that look right?
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| 13:21 | <sbalneav> That's about right.
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| 13:21 | <frederickjh> Thanks! Going to try it now.
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| 13:21 | <sbalneav> assuming that the locales for de_CH.utf8 are installed in the chroot
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| 13:22 | sbalneav@phobos:~$ sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 locale -a
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| 13:22 | [sudo] password for sbalneav:
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| 13:22 | C
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| 13:22 | en_CA.utf8
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| 13:22 | POSIX
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| 13:22 | <frederickjh> How do I check that? chroot and run the command above?
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| 13:22 | <sbalneav> I just pasted it.
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| 13:22 | <frederickjh> ok.
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| 13:23 | nope only english is installed.
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| 13:24 | <sbalneav> ok, then you'll need to install the right stuff in the chroot
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| 13:24 | <frederickjh> I guess I need to chroot in and install them.
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| 13:25 | <sbalneav> yep
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| 13:25 | <frederickjh> I have them installed on the server.
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| 13:27 | I have used apt-get before but how do I know what the locale packages are called?
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| 13:27 | <alkisg> distro/version?
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| 13:27 | <frederickjh> Karmic Ubuntu
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| 13:27 | <alkisg> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install language-pack-XXX
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| 13:28 | (to get LDM translated...)
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| 13:28 | (where XXX is your country/language code, see in synaptic for the name)
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| 13:28 | <frederickjh> ok will look
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| 13:31 | You had me confused there for a bit. Since you typed three Xs I thought they would be three character codes, but they are two character codes.
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| 13:31 | <sbalneav> Oout for a bit.
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| 13:32 | <frederickjh> I will need to update the image after installing correct?
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| 13:33 | <alkisg> Right
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| 13:38 | <frederickjh> Do you also happen to know the format for the TIMEZONE command in lts.conf?
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| 13:39 | <johnny> why are you setting a different tiemzone for your clients than your server?
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| 13:40 | /me isn't sure we have that option
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| 13:40 | must be some good reason, hoping to hear it now
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| 13:40 | sure why we have that option*
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| 13:40 | <frederickjh> I am not but the time on the client at the login screen is always wrong.
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| 13:40 | <johnny> hmm.. wrong time on yoru client pcs then.. tha'ts why
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| 13:40 | guess we don't install ntp by default.. that's the problem
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| 13:40 | <frederickjh> I also want to set a time server.
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| 13:41 | <johnny> something like American/New_York i think
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| 13:41 | er
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| 13:41 | America/New_York
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| 13:41 | <alkisg> Ahmuck: some person is also having difficulties to connect/post here, what did you do to overcome the "cannot send to channel" problem?
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| 13:41 | <frederickjh> I read some where that it looks at the bios of the client pc for the time if you don't set a time zone and time server.
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| 13:41 | <johnny> yep.. that's what happens.. :( forgot we had time on the login screen
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| 13:41 | alkisg, you have to register an account wiht nickserv
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| 13:42 | <knipwim> alkisg: i identified my nick with NickServ to overcome it
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| 13:42 | <frederickjh> You need to register you nick to send to the channel.
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| 13:42 | <alkisg> Ah. damianos, ^^^
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| 13:42 | frederickjh: that's the UTC=yes/no option in /etc/default/rcS in the chroot
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| 13:43 | <frederickjh> Ok back to the time zone I have seen 0000 as UTC setting.
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| 13:43 | <alkisg> Modify it, update image, reboot the clients...
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| 13:43 | frederickjh: ^^^ that was about the timezone problem
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| 13:43 | wrong UTC == wrong time
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| 13:44 | <frederickjh> So you saying I can change option in the /etc/default/rcS in the chroot to fix the problem.
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| 13:44 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 13:45 | <frederickjh> So, I can most likely look at my /etc/default/rcS to see what the server is set at.
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| 13:45 | and set them the same.
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| 13:45 | <alkisg> *if* they have the same bios settings
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| 13:45 | If the have different settings in the BIOS, they'll need different settings for that file
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| 13:46 | <frederickjh> What do you mean by that?
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| 13:46 | <alkisg> But it's just a yes/no flag, so you can just put it the other way from what it is now
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| 13:46 | <frederickjh> Do BIOS have time zone settings?
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| 13:46 | <alkisg> Some of them
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| 13:46 | <frederickjh> Ok, must be on more modern hardware then i have seen.
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| 13:50 | However, that is only a setting for UTC yes or no. So just setting that to no will set it to the server time?
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| 13:50 | <alkisg> (09:44:51 μμ) alkisg: But it's just a yes/no flag, so you can just put it the other way from what it is now
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| 13:53 | <frederickjh> Not sure that is going to help. The rcs file on the server is set no the rcs file on the chroot is set yes. The time on the server is 20:50 while the client login screen reads 05:05. I am +1 here in Switzerland.
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| 13:54 | <alkisg> And the client bios time is?
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| 13:54 | <frederickjh> Let me check
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| 13:54 | <alkisg> Do you have it auto-syncing with an NTP server?
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| 13:54 | <frederickjh> The client?
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| 13:55 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 13:56 | <frederickjh> Bios date and time Sun Feb 7 2010 4:09
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| 13:56 | Not sure how you get the client to time sync.
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| 13:56 | <alkisg> Ah, then the time is wrong, it's not a timezone problem..
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| 13:57 | Do the clients have direct internet access?
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| 13:57 | (i.e. natting if they're behind the server etc?)
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| 13:57 | <frederickjh> That is what I was trying to do with the TIMEZONE and TIMESERVER settings in the lts.conf
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| 13:57 | Yes.
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| 13:57 | <alkisg> From what it looks, you don't need a timezone. Just an ntp server
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| 13:57 | Here's what I got:
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| 13:57 | TIMEZONE=Europe/Athens
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| 13:57 | TIMESERVER=91.189.94.4
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| 13:57 | That IP there is the ubuntu timeserver...
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| 13:58 | <frederickjh> Thanks alkisg.
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| 14:01 | <frederickjh> Now the time reads 6:13 on the client.
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| 14:01 | at the login screen.
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| 14:02 | or is that not the time after ltsp34(192.168.0.34)//
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| 14:03 | <alkisg> Are you sure the client has direct access to the internet?
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| 14:03 | :13 ==> the minutes don't match
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| 14:03 | <alkisg> Well done damianos_ ;)
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| 14:03 | <frederickjh> I bet you I have to update the bios time to with in 5 minutes of the correct time or the ntp update will not take.
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| 14:03 | <alkisg> frederickjh: no, that's only for windows :D
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| 14:05 | Try to run ntp manually from a client (SCREEN_02=shell) to see what it tells you
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| 14:05 | ntp-update what's the command, I don't remember...
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| 14:05 | <frederickjh> ok
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| 14:07 | I can't get to the terminal with Ctrl-Alt F1 anymore. They change that with Karmic.
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| 14:07 | I need to fix that back the way it was.
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| 14:09 | <alkisg> frederickjh: try those in lts.conf:
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| 14:09 | SCREEN_02=shell
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| 14:09 | SCREEN_07=ldm
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| 14:09 | (under [Default])
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| 14:09 | and then press Alt+Ctrl+F2...
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| 14:10 | <frederickjh> Ok I got you.
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| 14:12 | <knipwim> johnny: i'm working on some changes in the profile.qs
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| 14:12 | <frederickjh> Did not work. I need to look up the new keystrokes for this.
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| 14:12 | <knipwim> emerging udev with --newuse seperate, and remove the --newuse from the emerge world
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| 14:13 | and also setting the CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK for all config dirs
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| 14:13 | <alkisg> frederickjh: there aren't any new keystrokes for this...
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| 14:13 | <knipwim> so all config file updates are merged automatically
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| 14:14 | <frederickjh> In Karmic they disable the Ctrl-Alt Backspace and a bunch of other Ctrl-Alt key combinations. I think that this was upstream.
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| 14:14 | <alkisg> frederickjh: if it doesn't work, maybe it's a driver issue?
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| 14:15 | Yes, alt+ctrl+backspace is now alt+ctrl+printscreen+k
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| 14:15 | <frederickjh> It worked before Karmic..
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| 14:15 | <alkisg> But alt+ctrl+fx wasn't changed...
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| 14:16 | <frederickjh> Well all I know is it does not work and more on my clients. I did just try it on the server and that works.
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| 14:17 | <frederickjh> Anyone else running Ubuntu LTSP Karmic and can get to a terminal with Ctrl-Alt-F1?
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| 14:17 | alkisg what do you mean a driver issue?
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| 14:17 | What driver could it be?
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| 14:17 | <alkisg> frederickjh: e.g. intels have very different behavior in 8.10 vs 9.10...
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| 14:18 | <frederickjh> This is a Atom intel 1.6 Ghz from disklessworkstations.com
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| 14:19 | On the time issue, since setting the bios time I am not only an hour off so I think that setting UTC to No on the client will line things back up.-
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| 14:21 | <johnny> knipwim, sounds good
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| 14:21 | <frederickjh> What kind of behaviour?
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| 14:32 | <damianos> hello
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| 14:32 | finally
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| 14:36 | <frederickjh> alkisg could this driver thing have to do with the fact that the keyboard is a USB keyboard? No, PS2 port.
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| 14:36 | <alkisg> frederickjh: try removing "quiet splash" from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 14:37 | <frederickjh> ok, then what do I look for?
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| 14:37 | <alkisg> See it it works then :)
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| 14:37 | I.e. if removing splash works around the problem
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| 14:37 | <frederickjh> ok rebooting now.
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| 14:38 | <alkisg> I don't have anything concrete to tell you. I've just seen some drivers having problems with switching to VTs. It isn't a general karmic issue...
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| 14:38 | <frederickjh> ok,
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| 14:38 | I had these options out a bit a go to trouble shoot a sound issue.
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| 14:39 | nope, no splash and I still can't Ctrl-Alt-F1 to a terminal.
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| 14:40 | <alkisg> You didn't change any vt* options anywhere, did you?
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| 14:40 | <frederickjh> not that I know of .
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| 14:41 | would that be in the lts.conf?
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| 14:42 | The time is now correct after setting the bios and the UTC to no on the chroot
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| 14:42 | <alkisg> Anyway, you can get a local terminal (but not a _root_ local terminal) by running `ltsp-localapps xterm` inside a gnome session on the client.
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| 14:43 | There's also an LDM_DEBUG_TERMINAL or something that could get you a root local terminal, but I'm not sure of its name
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| 14:43 | <frederickjh> ok, I will try the first and see if the ntp-update works from there
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| 14:47 | <frederickjh> Tells me command not found
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| 14:47 | <Ahmuck> alkisg: u need to be registered and enter your password
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| 14:48 | <frederickjh> which means I need to login as a different user
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| 14:48 | <alkisg> Ahmuck: thanks, the person that had the problem sorted it out :)
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| 14:48 | frederickjh: how about `ping 91.189.94.4` ?
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| 14:49 | <frederickjh> already logged out
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| 14:49 | <alkisg> The user doesn't have sbin in the path...
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| 14:49 | <Ahmuck> humans make things complicated
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| 14:50 | <frederickjh> The ping works.
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| 14:51 | <alkisg> from the local xterm? and ntpupdate didn't? Hmmm...
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| 14:51 | <frederickjh> sudo ntp-update returns command not found
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| 14:51 | <alkisg> You can't sudo from the local xterm
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| 14:52 | <frederickjh> oh
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| 14:53 | Ok, that was from the normal terminal, however the xterm tells me the same thing.
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| 14:55 | In any case the time is now right. Not sure if it will stay right or be updated by ntp-update or how to set that up.
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| 14:56 | I find it interesting that the time LDM displays comes from the client BIOS and not the server.
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| 14:59 | <johnny> because ti's running locally
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| 14:59 | alkisg, should ldminfo return the time?
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| 14:59 | so the time comes locally
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| 15:00 | <frederickjh> But why display the time then, if a way was not setup to sync the client clocks?
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| 15:00 | <alkisg> Hmm.... we already have ntp support... why do manually what ntp does automatically?
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| 15:00 | <knipwim> johnny: could you check my implementation?
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| 15:01 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~wimmuskee/ltsp/ltsp-gentoo-dev/revision/1494
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| 15:02 | <alkisg> frederickjh: there _is_ a way, the ntp server you're using. It's just optional...
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| 15:02 | <johnny> is there such a command ntp-update ?
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| 15:02 | pretty sure it's ntpdate
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| 15:02 | <alkisg> ntpdate
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| 15:02 | One might want to use an external ntp server. Another might want to install ntp on the ltsp server... that's why it's good that it's optional.
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| 15:03 | <frederickjh> So is adding the time zone and time sever to the lts.conf a working option?
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| 15:03 | <alkisg> It should be. Anything different might be just a bug.
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| 15:04 | It's been working for me for the last 2 years...
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| 15:04 | <johnny> knipwim, is there a reason you're setting config protect mask?
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| 15:05 | <frederickjh> Back to my original question I add LDM_LANGUAGE=de_CH.utf8 to my lts.conf and now when I boot in I get German as my Interface language but the LDM display is still in English.
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| 15:05 | <johnny> i wanted to make sure that configs overwrite everything
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| 15:05 | on first install
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| 15:05 | <frederickjh> Thanks alkisg good to hear it is working.
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| 15:06 | Do I need to install some thing else or change another settinging the lts.conf for that?
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| 15:06 | <alkisg> "when I boot in I get German as my Interface language" ==> what do you mean by that? where exactly do you see german?
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| 15:06 | <frederickjh> After I login and see the desktop.
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| 15:07 | <alkisg> That's the server, not the chroot.
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| 15:07 | <knipwim> johnny: "Any directory which is listed in CONFIG_PROTECT (and any subdirectories thereof), except for any which are listed in CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK (and subdirectories) are automatically 'protected' by Portage when copying an image from DESTDIR to ROOT."
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| 15:07 | <alkisg> what does this give you? ls /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/locale/*/LC_MESSAGES/ldm.mo
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| 15:07 | <frederickjh> At the login screen it still says in English Username.
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| 15:08 | bash: /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/locale/*/LC_MESSAGES/ldm.mo: No such file or directory
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| 15:08 | <frederickjh> Looks like something is missing.
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| 15:08 | <alkisg> frederickjh: it looks like you didn't install the langpack then
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| 15:08 | <johnny> i didn't want them protected knipwim
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| 15:08 | <johnny> that was the point :)
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| 15:08 | <alkisg> (09:26:32 μμ) alkisg: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install language-pack-XXX
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| 15:09 | <knipwim> they aren't with the mask
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| 15:09 | <johnny> oh
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| 15:09 | the opposite
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| 15:09 | <knipwim> by default they are protected from the profile
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| 15:09 | <johnny> sorry dude.. i read it opposite :)
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| 15:09 | ok.. carry on :)
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| 15:09 | as long as you tested it, go ahead
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| 15:09 | <knipwim> yup
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| 15:09 | <johnny> altho i'm concerned about whether the setting should stick around after install or not
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| 15:10 | <knipwim> apperantly just adding a CONFIG_PROTECT="" didn't help
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| 15:10 | <frederickjh> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 locale -a
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| 15:10 | [sudo] password for fhenderson:
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| 15:10 | C
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| 15:10 | de_AT.utf8
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| 15:10 | de_BE.utf8
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| 15:10 | de_CH.utf8
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| 15:10 | de_DE.utf8
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| 15:10 | de_LI.utf8
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| 15:10 | de_LU.utf8
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| 15:10 | <knipwim> johnny: i've been thinking about that
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| 15:11 | <frederickjh> They look like they are installed or?
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| 15:11 | <alkisg> frederickjh: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg -l language-pack*
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| 15:11 | <knipwim> why would you go back inside your chroot env?
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| 15:11 | to update perhaps
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| 15:11 | but you could just as easy build a new client
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| 15:13 | <frederickjh> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg -l language-pack*
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| 15:13 | Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
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| 15:13 | | Status=Not/Inst/Cfg-files/Unpacked/Failed-cfg/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
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| 15:13 | |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
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| 15:13 | ||/ Name Version Description
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| 15:13 | ii language-pack-de 1:9.10+20091022 translation updates for language German
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| 15:13 | ii language-pack-de-base 1:9.10+20091022 translations for language German
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| 15:14 | Is that what we are looking for alkisg?
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| 15:14 | <alkisg> frederickjh: http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/all/language-pack-de-base/filelist
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| 15:15 | On karmic, that package contains ldm.mo
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| 15:15 | So yes, that's what you're looking for.
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| 15:18 | <frederickjh> So it appears to be installed but I do not find a directory called locale-langpack in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/local/share?
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| 15:19 | <alkisg> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg -L language-pack-de-base | grep ldm.mo
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| 15:20 | <frederickjh> /usr/share/locale-langpack/de/LC_MESSAGES/ldm.mo
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| 15:20 | <alkisg> Is it there?
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| 15:20 | <frederickjh> That is what the terminal returned.
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| 15:20 | <alkisg> ls /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/locale-langpack/de/LC_MESSAGES/ldm.mo
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| 15:20 | <frederickjh> fhenderson@kids:~$ sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg -L language-pack-de-base | grep ldm.mo
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| 15:20 | /usr/share/locale-langpack/de/LC_MESSAGES/ldm.mo
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| 15:21 | Damianos has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:22 | * alkisg needs to do some work, bbiab | |
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| 15:53 | <knipwim> johnny: here's a proposal to set locale.gen
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| 15:53 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~wimmuskee/ltsp/ltsp-gentoo-dev/revision/1495
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| 15:54 | <johnny> sounds good to me
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| 15:56 | <knipwim> some notes, i can also set the default locales with a cat /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED | grep en_US > ${chroot_dir}/etc/locale.gen
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| 15:57 | <knipwim> the first one is more descriptive, the last shorter
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| 16:01 | <alkisg> grep en_US /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED > ${chroot_dir}/etc/locale.gen would be even shorter :)
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| 16:24 | <frederickjh> Thanks again alkisg for all the help. Maybe another time we can tackle this. Bed time here.
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| 16:24 | <alkisg> Good night
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| 17:08 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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| 17:27 | <highvoltage> hey sbalneav
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| 17:27 | * highvoltage will probably fall over any minute | |
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| 17:37 | <Ahmuck> setting up ltsp on an amd64 or intel64 is with i386 clients is no different is it?
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| 17:40 | <appiah> just use ltsp-build-client --arch=i386
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| 17:44 | alkisg has quit IRC | |
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| 18:13 | <johnny> yes.. it's different.. the --arch is required
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| 18:14 | except on fedora and gentoo where we defaut to i386
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| 18:14 | well on gentoo it's x86. but it means the same thing..
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| 19:43 | <satyag> hi
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| 19:44 | italc folks around
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| 19:45 | damianos has joined #ltsp | |
| 19:45 | <satyag> i am trying to cross compile italc on ubuntu 9.10 , "you do not have installed libz and/or development-files are missing!"
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| 19:47 | <satyag> libzzip-dev is installed
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| 19:48 | <vagrantc> apt-get build-dep italc
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| 19:49 | <satyag> ah i see cdbs dpatch fdupes intltool patchutils were missing for now
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| 19:49 | let me install them then run the configure script again
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| 19:50 | <vagrantc> apt-get install build-essential might also help
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| 19:50 | though i'm not quite sure if ubuntu's development setup is the same as ubuntu's
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| 19:51 | <satyag> no effect with the first one ;-(
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| 19:51 | let me chek the build essentials
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| 19:51 | ok its already there
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| 19:53 | configure is looking like this for now http://pastebin.com/d3faf7272
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| 19:54 | the missing packages last 4 i suppose http://pastebin.com/d618041d4
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| 19:55 | they belong to a single package i suppose
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| 19:55 | but which one ?
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| 19:56 | * satyag scratching his head | |
| 20:05 | jammcq has joined #ltsp | |
| 20:05 | <jammcq> hey friends
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| 21:11 | <damianos> hello
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| 21:23 | <damianos> IDENTIFY damianos ba42day
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| 21:26 | <sbalneav> damianos: Ouch
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| 21:26 | we saw that
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| 21:26 | time to change your password
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| 21:27 | <damianos> yeah
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| 21:27 | now I can browse the net for an hour trying to find the command to do that
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| 21:27 | :(
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| 21:27 | <jammcq> sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 21:34 | <sbalneav> Evening jammcq
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| 21:34 | Wonder when the auth only thing will get removed?
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| 21:35 | <jammcq> yeah, I thought it was gonna get removed after the new irc server software was installed
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| 21:35 | sbalneav: did you get the photo I emailed you a while ago?
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| 21:39 | <sbalneav> Hummmm, no, I don't think so.
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| 21:39 | <jammcq> about 90 minutes ago
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| 21:40 | to the alburg address
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| 21:41 | <sbalneav> ah, haven't checked.
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| 21:41 | uno momento
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| 21:41 | <jammcq> well... you should be checking every 20 minutes, just in case I want to send you something important
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| 21:41 | <sbalneav> Aha!
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| 21:42 | Hey, where's that, near you?
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| 21:42 | <jammcq> I was down in Ann Arbor for lunch today
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| 21:42 | sitting at a traffic light, I looked up, and saw that marquis
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| 21:45 | <sbalneav> lol
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| 21:45 | Awesome.
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| 21:45 | You gonna go?
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| 21:45 | Only $5!
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| 21:46 | <jammcq> hmm, I've got the movie, I've got a big-ass tv with surround sound, and I don't have to drive 35 miles
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| 21:46 | now... if you were here, I'd go
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| 21:46 | sbalneav: did you see my email a couple days ago with the link to the anual run up the stairs at the empire state building?
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| 21:47 | <sbalneav> yeah!
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| 21:47 | <jammcq> something like 10 minutes. that's just crazy
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| 21:47 | you can barely do it that fast in the elevator
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| 21:48 | <sbalneav> yeah, thats heart attack material for sure.
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| 22:28 | <damianos> are you guys developers?
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| 22:32 | anyone?
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| 22:35 | <sbalneav> damianos: yes, we're developers.
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| 22:35 | <damianos> can I ask you guys something?
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| 22:36 | <sbalneav> !ask
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| 22:36 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: "ask" :: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least 15 minutes after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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| 22:36 | <damianos> I want to use LTSP to create a piano lab for my wife's classroom
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| 22:37 | My programming knowledge is limited to web scripting languages php,actionscript etc...
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| 22:37 | how hard would it be for somebody with my background to pull off my piano lab idea and what languages would I need to learn?
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| 22:38 | <sbalneav> Well, what do you want the thin clients to do?
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| 22:39 | If you just want them to be desktops, then the answer would be "not hard at all, none" :)
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| 22:41 | <damianos> I need the thin clients to run midi devices and software per station...however I would also need the server or master account to run an administrative version that would allow them to monitor all the stations
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| 22:42 | so essentially the trick is to figure out how to get midi from each device to the client and administrative software simultaneously
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| 22:42 | I know ALSA has midi routing built in
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| 22:42 | <sbalneav> Then my answer would be "difficult, C"
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| 22:43 | <damianos> that's what I was afraid of lol
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| 22:43 | <sbalneav> You'd be able to run whatever midi software as a local app, so that would work
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| 22:43 | but getting some kind of routing going from the thin clients to a master application would be non-trivial.
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| 22:44 | <damianos> ok...the sound coming out of the clients are those generated from the ltsp server or on the local image?
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| 22:44 | <sbalneav> Depends.
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| 22:45 | <damianos> well in the case of Solfege for example...the sound is generated from a midi player
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| 22:45 | <sbalneav> Normally, pulse audio runs on the thin clients, so sound generated by programs on the server will be routed over tcp/ip to the thin clint.
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| 22:45 | but midi's something else. It's not an audio stream, as far as I know, it's just "a list of notes to play on a real instrument"
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| 22:45 | <damianos> ok, so essentially midi is already being routed to the server since it is triggering the sounds in the midi player
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| 22:46 | <sbalneav> No, LTSP has no support for midi
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| 22:46 | Nothing's going to route midi, since pulse doesn't do it, AFAIK
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| 22:47 | so you'd either have to write, or find, something that accepts remote midi streams, and pipes 'em to a midi port on the thin client.
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| 22:47 | and you also need it to go back the other way.
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| 22:47 | <damianos> well in order for sound to be generated by the midi player, it has to receive MIDi information...and if the sound is coming from the server then somehow the midi is getting there
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| 22:47 | I know ALSA sends midi
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| 22:47 | <jammcq> why not run the midi software on the thin client?
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| 22:48 | <damianos> the software is running on the client
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| 22:49 | <damianos> however like you said earlier, midi is just data consisting of instructions like note-on note-off etc
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| 22:49 | <jammcq> can you make it work on a normal Linux machine?
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| 22:50 | <damianos> I haven't written anything yet,,, but there are apps out that can do bits and pieces of what I want
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| 22:50 | <jammcq> well... if you haven't written anything yet, and you don't know C, then you are in for a very bumpy ride
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| 22:51 | so if you really want to do it, don't do it on LTSP until you've made it work on a full Linux machine
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| 22:51 | <damianos> yeah, I know...but that's life
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| 22:51 | lol
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| 22:51 | ok
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| 22:52 | so C is the language to learn then
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| 22:52 | great...I'll get to it...I'd like to get something functional by September...at least on local machines
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| 22:52 | <jammcq> I think you'll need it to handle the midi stuff
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| 22:53 | <damianos> well I've read that the transition from C to Objective C is not hard at all
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| 22:53 | <jammcq> yeah, that's assuming you know C to begin with
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| 22:54 | <damianos> so I suppose learning C would be thinking ahead
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| 22:54 | <jammcq> but you are a php developer, it's quite different
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| 22:54 | <damianos> I've braced myself for that
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| 22:54 | I am at least familiar with some things like loops, conditionals and such. It's better than nothing
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| 22:56 | <jammcq> those are concepts you'll use in any programming language. what you'll need to learn is pointers, structures, memory alocation and lots of other things
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| 22:56 | taht's the kind of stuff you don't worry about in scripting languages
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| 22:57 | <damianos> I have a safaribooks account so I'll start digging through some books
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| 22:57 | <jammcq> it used to be that computer science students had to learn assembly. Now I think they just show you java and be done with it
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| 22:57 | <damianos> I think now it's backwards....you learn all the top level stuff and work your way down
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| 22:58 | Should I learn assembly language before C then?
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| 23:00 | <jammcq> how much time do you have?
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| 23:00 | <damianos> I could dedicate a 2-4 of hours every day
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| 23:01 | <jammcq> learn C
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| 23:01 | <damianos> I don't have a deadline for this piano lab project...this is just something nice I wanted to do for my wife and her school
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| 23:02 | ok, I'll learn C
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| 23:05 | alright, I gotta go....you guys have been really nice and helpful as usual....have a good night!
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