IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 20 March 2016 (all times are UTC)
| 00:46 | <gehidore> arg
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| 00:47 | battling myself alkisg
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| 00:47 | debating on restarting my project to make ltsp function flawlessly on ArchLinux or just use Ubuntu
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| 00:48 | <maldridge> just use ubuntu, arch not worth
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| 00:50 | <gehidore> it's worth it to me... as it's my native environment and generally ahead of those "zero day" vulnerabilities because it's often just behind upstream...
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| 00:50 | but on the same token having the leg work done already is a big bonus
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| 00:51 | so it really is a 50/50 draw in my perspective
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| 00:52 | <maldridge> fair, its part of the reason I'm working to get ltsp up and running on void
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| 00:52 | <gehidore> for poc I could just use Ubuntu and continue with arch on the side... once it's solidified I could just migrate data and accounts
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| 00:52 | <maldridge> I am also at the "but ubuntu already has it" stage of fighting with it
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| 00:52 | are you standing up a new site?
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| 00:52 | * vagrantc would be glad to see more active development from multiple distros again | |
| 00:53 | <gehidore> currently all scattered windows boxen
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| 00:53 | <maldridge> I see, looking to consolidate and simplify then?
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| 00:53 | <gehidore> I've got a couple weeks before I even likely have approved funding...
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| 00:54 | basically refuse to setup windows active directory on these machines because they're so slow already
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| 00:54 | vagrantc: that's a solid point
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| 00:55 | I think I'll go with my poc idea and continue working on it for ArchLinux once I'm happy migrate
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| 00:55 | <vagrantc> healthier for the community at large
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| 00:56 | <maldridge> fair point with AD. I wound up setting up fat installs in one of the high performance labs I work with just because we had the compute power, they all use a pair of linux DC's for auth, but ltsp is still unbeatable for smaller setups
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| 00:56 | <gehidore> at least I her the support of the wheel now while I adapt to the other management mindset
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| 00:57 | maldridge: vagrantc thanks for the input
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| 00:57 | <maldridge> any time
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| 00:57 | <gehidore> now I just need to find adorable micro atx cases with 24pin power supplies
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| 00:58 | affordable too
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| 00:58 | <vagrantc> pick any two of three desirable qualities :)
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| 00:58 | <gehidore> haha
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| 01:10 | <maldridge> gehidore: if you're US based microcenter had some nice ones from thermaltake a while back
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| 01:10 | (I think that was the brand)
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| 03:59 | <gehidore> maldridge: recall a price? we're a small not for profit (I get paid less than 150usd a month) so my budget is nearly nil
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| 04:00 | finding them with PSU for 35$ shipped on newegg iirc
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| 04:07 | <maldridge> gehidore: I think after rebate it was around 35, I picked up in store though
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| 05:43 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I'm trying to kill 3 different timeouts, 2 in the initramfs and one in the kernel, getting down the 16.04 client boot time from 45 seconds to 12 seconds :)
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| 05:44 | I'll repush the latest commit though as I have a wrong > instead of >> there
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| 05:49 | OK, done
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| 05:58 | So, LDM is reached in 12 seconds: [ 12.763038] block nbd9: Receive control failed (result -32)
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| 05:58 | :)
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| 06:22 | <gehidore> maldridge: ahh, there's no shops like that local or within reasonable "this saved you money" type driving
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| 06:22 | <maldridge> yeah, really convenient if its just down the road, not so much otherwise
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| 06:27 | <vagrantc> alkisg: nice work!
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| 06:27 | alkisg: what kind of hardware for your time tests?
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| 06:27 | <alkisg> vagrantc: there's still an issue with 10 seconds timeout with IPAPPEND=3, in recent Ubuntu versions, as they enable CONFIG_IP_PNP and hit some kernel bug there
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| 06:27 | I'm just using Virtualbox and checking the last timestamp in dmesg
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| 06:28 | It was 45 yesterday, it's 12 today :)
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| 06:28 | <vagrantc> alkisg: sure, but you can run virtualbox on a quad-core i7 with 8gb of ram, or a 300MHz celeron with 256MB of ram...
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| 06:28 | you *might* get different results :)
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| 06:28 | <alkisg> Timeouts in general are the same
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| 06:29 | They're just "sleep 10 seconds" or so
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| 06:29 | So the difference will be the same; of course on a slow pc it might get down from 145 to 112, but the difference will again be the same
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| 06:29 | <vagrantc> ah, that level of fix ... yeah, those would be good to kill
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| 06:30 | <alkisg> It was a "wait-for-root 10 seconds" due to nbd, a "wait-for-root 5 seconds" due to resume, and the 10 seconds kernel wait for an ethernet device (before the initramfs)
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| 07:43 | <gehidore> that's an impressive delay alkisg
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| 07:43 | <alkisg> Yeah it regressed to much from 12.04
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| 07:44 | *too
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| 07:46 | <gehidore> I'm disgusted with my lack of observation lately, completely missed the fact that the dimple standoffs in the p4 case don't match microatx, the power supply is only 4" lead, the other 3 boxes I have are only 20 pin and too low of voltage to use a 24 pin adapter... and for the life of me can't find reliable source for < 40USD with shipping micro / mini cases with psu's
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| 07:48 | <alkisg> gehidore: I installed the amd board in a p4 case, it worked fine with the old PSU
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| 07:48 | <gehidore> was the lead for it only 4" though?
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| 07:48 | <alkisg> Maybe your existing cases are too incompatible :)
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| 07:48 | <gehidore> these are bizarre
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| 07:52 | talked to the second in charge at the company and she says it's likely the boss will spring to spend a little extra as it's going to save tons in the long run and even more in headache...
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| 07:52 | <maldridge> gehidore: I don't know that you can get the discount you are looking for, but this is the case I have:
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| 07:52 | https://jet.com/product/detail/062ece1c76ae4c48b3ee3e32b2af275f?jcmp=pla:ggl:cwin_electronics_a2:electronics_accessories_computer_components_a2_other:na:na:na:na:na:2&code=PLA15&k_clickid=26659b5f-1422-447e-8572-f170af98f479&abkId=405-1575979&gclid=Cj0KEQjwlLm3BRDjnML3h9ic_vkBEiQABa5oebHcYq5xVvIobbPIddxDunFqr6EklY1CWIBBrAJo3EIaAtv78P8HAQ
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| 07:52 | ... that wound up a longer URL than I thought
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| 07:54 | <gehidore> /window bare handled it just fine
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| 07:54 | nifty looking machine
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| 07:55 | <maldridge> its great, but I had to take the case apart to get a PCI card in
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| 07:55 | <gehidore> I'm just appalled by the idea of spending the same amount on a case as the board itself
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| 07:55 | <maldridge> you could get down to $36.99 from directron with a slightly different case, but I've never heard of that company before
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| 07:55 | yeah, I spent only $20 on the board that's in the case, but I wanted it to be well protected
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| 07:56 | <gehidore> I built a case today out a fedex box only to realize that the psu I was putting in there was only atx1.1 20 pin
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| 07:56 | had the standoffs and everything in place and oh poop can't plug in the psu
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| 07:57 | <maldridge> ouch, I've gone the box route before
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| 07:57 | my local LUG has a production router in a CiCi's Pizza dough box
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| 07:58 | <gehidore> hahah nice
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| 07:58 | my local lug is me. stupid ruralites
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| 08:08 | http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Ultra-X-Blaster-Mid-Tower-V2-Case-with-450W-PSU-/351622470469 nothing quite like generics
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| 08:09 | if only I hadn't taken all those beige cluster towers to the recycle a year ago
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| 08:09 | <maldridge> gehidore: where if I may ask?
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| 08:10 | and wow, that's a decent tower
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| 08:10 | <gehidore> cinebar washington little bit of nowhere
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| 08:11 | <maldridge> yeah, had to reach for google maps on that one, then doublecheck it actually sent me to the right place, I only see a road and a post office
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| 08:12 | <gehidore> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811148067 the crappy reviews scare me
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| 08:12 | <maldridge> I don't buy logisys anymore due to quality control issues
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| 08:13 | $dayjob doesn't buy from newegg anymore because they shipped us stuff that was DOA and then wouldn't RMA it
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| 08:13 | <gehidore> can't say I've ever bought them
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| 08:13 | I tend to buy from amazon 99% of my stuffs
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| 08:13 | <maldridge> I trust thier return policy more, that's for sure
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| 08:14 | <gehidore> lately I've bought a few newegg because my other job newegg is one of our biggest customers so I get to deliver my own packages
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| 08:14 | <maldridge> haha, that has to be entertaining
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| 08:15 | <gehidore> just means I get 1.50 back on each
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| 08:15 | makes the boss laugh
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| 08:15 | <maldridge> I can imagine
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| 08:16 | <gehidore> hoping for that to just be a temp job but at least it's consistent
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| 08:17 | <maldridge> consistency could certainly be good
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| 08:18 | case wise you could dead-bug style it with some cheap wood
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| 08:18 | it would look silly but it should be <$5 per "case"
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| 08:18 | then you'd just need boards
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| 08:18 | s/boards/PSUs
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| 08:18 | <gehidore> that's the irony, part of what this company does is a wood shop and we happen to have a cnc wood carving machine
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| 08:18 | so I really could make some hipster snap together wood cases
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| 08:19 | not sure what the boss would say about it as he has to factor in the time spent on the machine into $$$
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| 08:19 | I think it'd be a neat representation of what the shop could do though
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| 08:19 | <maldridge> what kind of CNC machine? assuming a standard ~3 axis mill you should be able to do the cutting in about 15 minutes per case
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| 08:19 | simple mortis and tenon would do it
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| 08:21 | <gehidore> exactly
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| 08:21 | was thinking half dove so it could tip in from center then a full dove on the top or something
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| 08:21 | only fasteners being those to hold the risers and psu in place
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| 08:22 | let me see if I can find the link, it's a budget system as again we're a true not for profit
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| 08:22 | iirc it just uses a porter cable router for the cutting head
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| 08:23 | <maldridge> if you had access to a laser cutter my CAM software suggests you could do it in ~8.6 minutes of laser time per case with 1/8" lauan
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| 08:23 | <gehidore> nice
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| 08:25 | http://www.digitalwoodcarver.com/
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| 08:26 | I could spin them out in my own half assed woodshop using the table saw and some cheap ply a little wood glue and happyland
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| 08:26 | still have to get psu's
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| 08:27 | <maldridge> oh one of those, they are decent machines, I've worked on a shop made version of that before and got decent results from it
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| 08:27 | I assuem you have no source of dead computers to get full size PSU's from?
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| 08:28 | <gehidore> I'll have to look at what's left in my stash at my folks shop, haven't looked there in ~5+ years though
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| 08:31 | <maldridge> at the scary cheap end of the spectrum it looks like you could get a 180W PSU for $11 on amazon
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| 08:33 | <gehidore> yeah
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| 08:33 | I'll have to ponder this some more...
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| 08:34 | cheers for now it's 0133 I probably should call it a night
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| 08:34 | <maldridge> good luck, I'm curious to hear what you come up with, I will also be off as it is 0334 here
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| 16:23 | <alkisg> !alkisg-todo
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| 16:23 | <ltsp> alkisg-todo: (#1) support xnbd-proxy for local caching: https://bitbucket.org/hirofuchi/xnbd/wiki/Home#!scenario-2-simple-proxy-server-distributed-copy-on-write, or (#2) LDM_GUESTLOGIN=auto, or (#3) Support UEFI, or (#4) make KEEP_SYSTEM_SERVICES override user-defined RM_SYSTEM_SERVICES, or (#5) change /var/cache/ltsp to /run/ltsp, or (#6) support for per-user login commands in lts.conf, or (#7) fix RM_SYSTEM_SERVICES under (1 more message)
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| 16:23 | <alkisg> !more
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| 16:23 | <ltsp> systemd, or (#8) "Remove the 5 sec initramfs delay due to resume="
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| 16:23 | <alkisg> !forget alkisg-todo 8
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| 16:23 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 16:23 | <alkisg> !forget alkisg-todo 7
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| 16:23 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 16:23 | <alkisg> !forget alkisg-todo 4
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| 16:23 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 16:23 | <alkisg> !alkisg-todo
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| 16:23 | <ltsp> alkisg-todo: (#1) support xnbd-proxy for local caching: https://bitbucket.org/hirofuchi/xnbd/wiki/Home#!scenario-2-simple-proxy-server-distributed-copy-on-write, or (#2) LDM_GUESTLOGIN=auto, or (#3) Support UEFI, or (#4) change /var/cache/ltsp to /run/ltsp, or (#5) support for per-user login commands in lts.conf
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| 16:25 | <alkisg> vagrantc: all bugs squashed, ready for release :)
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| 16:25 | I'll test it in a couple of days if you want to wait until it's properly tested
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| 16:25 | Now I only tested in a VM...
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| 16:25 | <vagrantc> alkisg: more testing is always good :)
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| 16:26 | <alkisg> I also managed to convince the Ubuntu folks to kill the 10 sec timeout due to ip=xxx
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| 16:26 | You're fortunate that Debian doesn't have that :)
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| 16:26 | <vagrantc> yay
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| 16:26 | <alkisg> So, from 45 secs boot time down to 12!
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| 16:33 | alkisg is now known as alkisg_away | |
| 16:34 | * markit would love to be able to convince kde folks not to read so much data from HD at startup | |
| 16:35 | <markit> xNBD? mmm let's read about it
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| 18:02 | <gehidore> markit: use !kde then it doesn't read any KDE files on startup
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| 18:02 | ;)
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| 18:05 | <markit> gehidore: is a joke or something I ignore? it reads all icons/whatever and populates /var/temp/kdesomehting, but I/O is very heavy
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| 18:08 | <gehidore> markit: it's me being a smartass, sorry
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| 18:10 | kde/gnome have been too heavy on the IO for me since ~1999 so I snark at them whenever I can - for the intial setup I did at the office for demo - before the hard disk simply failed - I used xfce4 and the folks that already knew kde/gnome whre quite happy
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| 18:10 | were even
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| 18:12 | <maldridge> gehidore, still better than cinnamon, which preloads all accounts listed by getent passwd
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| 18:17 | <gehidore> maldridge: ouch!
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| 18:18 | <gehidore> I guess I've embraced the simplistic to such an extreme that I'm still boggled by the overhead full DE's impose
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| 18:18 | even half DE's
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| 18:19 | on another note, when will manufactures grow up and realize we've moved past the #.99 on prices and all the flair claims of 5x faster!
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| 18:19 | just look at this page... http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/QC5000M/
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| 18:19 | * vagrantc was surprised how much resources XFCE took | |
| 18:20 | <gehidore> vagrantc: that wouldn't shock me either, but I couldn't convince these people to go as minimal as tiling or frankly anything lighter than xfce...
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| 18:20 | on the scale of going from full de to light weight it was the first
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| 18:20 | <vagrantc> sure
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| 18:21 | i had used lxde for ages, but now it sems like development has moved to lxqt
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| 18:21 | <gehidore> and ran amazingly smooth in a 64bit p4 with 4G ram and a rotational drive.
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| 18:21 | lx* was the next on the list and then that rotational drive simply failed
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| 18:23 | I used fluxbox from the time it was born until about ~3 years ago I'd guess so even xfce was too much for my personal daily use. for a group of lifelong windows users it was an amazing transition.
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| 18:23 | * gehidore is open to suggestions for when he finally gets the asrock board into a functional case... | |
| 18:24 | <gehidore> I've since lost that list only knowing xfce was first on the list and lx*something* was second
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| 18:24 | <vagrantc> i used ion3 and then tritium and then lxde and the last couple years have been using gnome3 :)
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| 18:24 | <gehidore> peoples will be restricted to firefox, thunderbird, libreoffice and maybe a select few others
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| 18:26 | this is also always my final note on the great DE/WM/FB/Console debate: Use what suites _you_ the best
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| 18:27 | <vagrantc> i had a fling with icewm on ltsp installs way back in the day
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| 18:28 | yup
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| 18:33 | <gehidore> how'd that go for ya?
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| 18:34 | I think these new boards could handle even gnome/kde with ease once it was load. there's just so much *stuff* these people don't need to have distracting them
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| 18:35 | <vagrantc> i think the features i actually like in gnome3 could be written without all the cruft
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| 18:35 | <gehidore> that's how I always felt about kde when I was a linux babby playing with redhat
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| 18:37 | <vagrantc> mostly, i like the type-to-find applications ... the window-switcher with miniturized versions of each window in realtime is probably hard to implement without fancy graphics, though
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| 18:37 | * vagrantc wonders how feasible it would be to do a thumbnail that wasn't realtime periodically, though | |
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| 18:37 | <vagrantc> kind of like epoptes does
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| 18:44 | <gehidore> maldridge: ! 24pin extension pigtails!
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| 18:47 | <maldridge> gehidore: ?
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| 18:48 | <gehidore> http://www.amazon.com/uxcell-29-5cm-Computer-Female-Extension/dp/B00EZ50W36/ assuming a low cost wood scrap case could be made - of course it can. this would make it so I could reuse those p4 power supplies...
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| 18:48 | course the hoarder in me wants to stack them all in the corner for backup too
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| 18:48 | <maldridge> oh, you've got old dell boxes don't you
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| 18:49 | <gehidore> with 24 pin power supplies but the motherboard power only has a 4" lead on it which isn't enough to rationally mount the power supply to the rear and still plug in
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| 18:49 | but then too I'm trusting heavily power supplies from 8+ years ago
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| 18:50 | wow that was short lived, already talked myself out of it with mental images of sparks and smoke
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| 18:50 | <maldridge> eh, I've trusted worse before. those cables are way overpriced though
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| 18:51 | <gehidore> no doubt they are, that's what I get for selecting prime only options
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| 18:51 | <maldridge> also re: DE/WM I found the cinnamon bug when it tried to load something like 6000 accounts off an ldap server onto my laptop, things just got really slow
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| 18:51 | we boot new users into lxde with the lubuntu theme on it, but we're considering pushing them into cinnamon now that it doesn't preload anymore
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| 18:52 | <gehidore> I don't think I've ever actually seen cinnamon
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| 18:52 | <maldridge> its *very* windows 7
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| 18:53 | we even have an internal nonfree theme that has all the aero artwork
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| 18:53 | and since we have an office suite that has the MS ribbon, it satisfies all the users
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| 18:58 | <gehidore> http://www.amazon.com/Hewlett-Packard-HP-460968-001-462434-001-Compatible/dp/B00IGBVMA2/
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| 18:58 | <maldridge> I saw that, but somethingjust seemed a bit off about it
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| 18:59 | maybe I'm too used to PSUs with dual fans
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| 19:00 | * vagrantc is used to PSUs with no fans | |
| 19:00 | <gehidore> maldridge: nice. I used to use lindows for the elderly that would come to me and panic because their grandchild came over and looked at porn for 10 minutes now all they haveon their computer is virus and porn
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| 19:00 | I haven't built a desktop machine in at least 5 years
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| 19:01 | so I'm used to laptop power supplies
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| 19:01 | <maldridge> I want an excuse to use this: http://www.amazon.com/160W-Pico-Power-Supply-Module/dp/B00OQDA3N6/
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| 19:01 | <gehidore> that one looks pretty typical to me maldridge, any other detractors?
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| 19:01 | <maldridge> gehidore: previous bad experience with HP, but nothing recent
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| 19:03 | <gehidore> I've had previous bad experience with asrock to the point I swore off ever using them again, yet here I am with another. I blame alkisg_away
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| 19:04 | that 160W would actually work on this board, iirc it's only a 15W cpu
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| 19:04 | s/cpu/apu/
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| 19:04 | too bad the price doesn't beat the HP
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| 19:05 | and since I don't currently intend to provide the users with any optical I only need that 24pin
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| 19:05 | <maldridge> ah, be careful with asrock if you intend to use gpt partition format, they seem to be still working that out in thier bios
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| 19:06 | I needed a uefi stub to get freebsd to load on one of my asrock boards
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| 19:09 | <gehidore> interesting
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| 19:09 | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157616 this is the board
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| 19:09 | got one for POC right now
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| 19:20 | maldridge: these will also be the clients, probably going to repair the quadcore phenom box that refuses to post and migrate that into the position of squid/ltsp server
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| 19:35 | <maldridge> nice board
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| 20:09 | <alkisg> (08:23:51 μμ) ***gehidore is open to suggestions for when he finally gets the asrock board into a functional case... ==>
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| 20:09 | /me is using gnome-flashback, it's quite light
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| 20:16 | <maldridge> is it actively developed on its own or is it still considered the fallback session?
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| 20:28 | <alkisg> It's not an upstream gnome project anymore, it's developed by only a few developers on their own
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| 20:29 | The good thing is that it doesn't try to reinvent the wheel, it just complements gnome 3 for non compositing/3d accelerated environments
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| 20:29 | <maldridge> ah, well I'm glad its still being developed
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| 20:30 | <alkisg> so (like ltsp) it's trying to minimize its code base
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| 20:30 | <maldridge> always a good plan
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