IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 31 December 2013 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:20 | <ogden> Hey quick question hopefully since i've been looking into LTSP. If I'm running in a fatclient LTSP setup but im wanting non persistent storage so that the machines are fresh on every reboot how can I accomplish this?
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| 01:21 | I'm using LTSP on ubuntu 12.04.3
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| 07:01 | <alkisg> vagrantc: Hi there! Should we try to list the things we want to do in ltsp5 before creating the ltsp6 branch?
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| 07:03 | !alkisg-todo
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| 07:03 | <ltsp> alkisg-todo: (#1) upload fixed nbd-server package in the PPA, or (#2) implement LDM_[PRE|IN|POST]SESSION_CMD, or (#3) LDM password hash, or (#4) Check ltsp bugs in debian.org, or (#5) nbd-disconnect isn't called at all because the cmdline changed, no nbdroot=
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| 07:03 | * alkisg is currently trying #5... | |
| 07:10 | <alkisg> !kvm
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| 07:10 | <ltsp> kvm: To boot a virtual thin client with kvm: kvm -vga vmware -ctrl-grab -net nic,model=virtio -net user,tftp=/var/lib/tftpboot,bootfile=/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
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| 07:14 | <GEEGEEGEE> /etc/ltsp/ltsp-build-client.conf doesnt exist on Ubuntu 12.04 after installing ltsp-server-standalone
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| 07:14 | is this normal?
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| 07:15 | <alkisg> GEEGEEGEE: yes, it's normal
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| 07:15 | <gdi2k> GEEGEEGEE, yes, I did a 12.04 install yesterday and had to create it manually
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| 07:15 | <GEEGEEGEE> ok thanks, and i just need the ARCH= line and my FAT_CLIENT_DESKTOPS to configure it as fat client?
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| 07:15 | <alkisg> !fatclients
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| 07:15 | <ltsp> fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 07:16 | <GEEGEEGEE> oh ok thanks alot :)
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| 07:16 | <alkisg> It's not necessary to use that file, you can pass what you want in the ltsp-build-client command line
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| 07:17 | <gdi2k> I am struggling a bit with slow application start up times when using fat clients - I have libreoffice --quickstart working, which helps for that, but other apps are rather slow to start (presumably due to limited network throughput). Would preload work with fat clients?
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| 07:18 | <alkisg> gdi2k: run a network benchmark and report the values
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| 07:19 | If libreoffice needs 120 MB to get launched, and your network is 100mbps, and you boot 10 clients, ...do the math :)
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| 07:19 | http://www.epoptes.org/documentation/lan-benchmark
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| 07:26 | <statick> Saludos
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| 07:26 | alguien de habla hispana
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| 07:26 | o/
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| 07:26 | me interesa montar un servidor ltsp
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| 07:26 | y utilizar como clientes otras 10 pc
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| 07:27 | me gustaria realizar unas preguntas para ver si es posible con los recursos que tengo
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| 07:27 | <vagrantc> alkisg: might be good.
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| 07:28 | alkisg: looks like i'm not getting to ltsp 5.4.7 today
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| 07:28 | <alkisg> !learn ltsp5-todo as "fix nbd-disconnect"
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| 07:28 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 07:28 | <alkisg> vagrantc: let's add our TODOs there, I don't think we have many to worth a wiki page...
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| 07:28 | <vagrantc> alkisg: sounds good
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| 07:29 | <alkisg> statick: I haven't seen anyone here give support in spanish, maybe you want to try http://translate.google.com ?
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| 07:30 | <vagrantc> alkisg: maybe i'll find some time tomorrow
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| 07:31 | <alkisg> vagrantc: no problem, noone is chasing us... the important thing is to enjoy it :)
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| 07:31 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yeah, but i really enjoy making progress!
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| 07:31 | * vagrantc waves | |
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| 07:33 | <gdi2k> alkisg, looks like I have a network performance problem: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6667200/
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| 07:34 | could well be the flow control issue as server is connected to switch via 1 gb, clients via 10 mbps
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| 07:34 | *100 mbps
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| 07:34 | <alkisg> What NIC on the server?
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| 07:34 | <gdi2k> you want model etc.?
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| 07:34 | <alkisg> intel, realtek, atheros..
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| 07:34 | Or if you have shell access, this: lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 Ethernet
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| 07:35 | Also, that *kbps upload speed is very problematic
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| 07:36 | That means that any writes to the disk are extremely slow, slower even than a cdrom
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| 07:36 | <gdi2k> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6667210/
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| 07:36 | yes, I understand that, it's crazy slow
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| 07:37 | the server has raid1 SSDs, so I think it's a network issue - the disks are quick
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| 07:37 | <statick> Qué posibilidades hay de montar un Server LTSP con las siguientes caracteristicas
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| 07:37 | 12 Maquinas (Estudiantes) y 1 Máquina (Docente) esto actualmente esta instalado en Red con un Switch de 24 Puertos
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| 07:37 | Clientes
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| 07:37 | Pentium 4
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| 07:37 | <alkisg> With iperf you don't access the disk, so yeah disk doesn't matter
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| 07:37 | <statick> 128 mb de Ram
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| 07:37 | 30 o 40 Gb de Disco Duro
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| 07:37 | Servidor
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| 07:37 | Pentium 4
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| 07:37 | 4 gb de Ram
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| 07:37 | 500 Gb de Disco Duro
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| 07:37 | Ademas cuento con un TPLink de 2 antenas que provee internet
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| 07:37 | What are the chances of mounting a LTSP Server with the following characteristics
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| 07:37 | 12 Machines (Students) and 1 Machine (Teacher) that is currently installed on a Network Switch 24 Ports
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| 07:37 | customers
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| 07:37 | Pentium 4
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| 07:37 | 128 mb of Ram
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| 07:38 | 30 or 40 Gb Hard Drive
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| 07:38 | server
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| 07:38 | Pentium 4
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| 07:38 | 4 gb of Ram
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| 07:38 | 500 Gb Hard Drive
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| 07:38 | I also I have a TPLINK 2 antennas that provides Internet
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| 07:38 | <alkisg> statick: you need 1 gigabit port on the switch for the server, and the server needs to be dual core, not pentium 4
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| 07:39 | http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Pentium+4+3.00GHz&id=1074 ==> this gives performance == "360"
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| 07:39 | You need a CPU with about "1500"
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| 07:39 | <statick> Entonces no jalaria
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| 07:40 | <gdi2k> alkisg, do you think this is a flow control issue, or some other more major issue?
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| 07:40 | <alkisg> gdi2k: is the switch full gigabit, or it only has 1 gigabit port? If so, just for the fun of it, try putting the server in a 100mbps port
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| 07:41 | <statick> Complicated purchase a machine with 2 Cores resources
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| 07:41 | <gdi2k> it has 2 1gb ports, the other 24 are 10/00. will try that...
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| 07:41 | <alkisg> gdi2k: it doesn't seem like *only* flow control, the upload speed should be better, but try to run it again because those 108 seconds didn't look OK either
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| 07:42 | 118 seconds...
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| 07:42 | [ 10] 0.0-118.2 sec 10.9 MBytes 772 Kbits/sec
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| 07:42 | That should be "10 seconds", not 118
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| 07:43 | statick: dual core server with 4 gb ram, switch with at least 1 gigabit port, clients with 128 ram => OK
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| 07:43 | statick: OR, pentium4 clients with 1 GB ram => OK for fat clients
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| 07:43 | <statick> Any distro that does not take many resources to try
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| 07:44 | <alkisg> Can you buy DDR RAM for the clients?
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| 07:45 | <statick> My intention is to use Trisquel mini as LTSP Server
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| 07:45 | Since only consumes 128 Mb of Ram in the start, at least I think with 4 machines would not have any objection Customer
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| 07:46 | <alkisg> Firefox, iceweasel etc require 500 MB RAM
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| 07:46 | So if you don't want Internet, OK
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| 07:47 | <gdi2k> alkisg, well it's a little better when server is on 100 mb port: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6667245/
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| 07:48 | <alkisg> gdi2k: what nic on the clients? lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 Ethernet, again
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| 07:48 | <statick> I am a teacher at a primary school in Loja - Ecuador
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| 07:48 | With the news of the death of XP, I found no better excuse to talk to the authorities and I will comment on the LTSP project
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| 07:48 | Apparently they are not interested in spending a few dollars on a machine with sufientes server resources to make
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| 07:48 | <alkisg> statick: buy RAM then, that's what we're doing here. We put LTSP in about 500 schools...
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| 07:49 | With 100-150 euros you can make it work efficiently
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| 07:49 | If you want to run with 128 RAM and with no good server and no good switch, then leave XP, it's better
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| 07:50 | <statick> What are the ideal resource for LTSP Server 12 Customers of the above resources
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| 07:50 | <alkisg> It's better to buy RAM for the clients than to buy a new LTSP server
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| 07:51 | And it's cheaper too
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| 07:51 | Schools need multimedia apps, thin clients don't work well with multimedia apps, so better go for ltsp fat clients
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| 07:51 | !fatclients
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| 07:51 | <ltsp> fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 07:51 | <gdi2k> alkisg, nearly all of them have onboard nvidia based NICs, like this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6667263/
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| 07:52 | <statick> Ubuntu did not much interested in using
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| 07:52 | With 250 Mb of Ram customers would not have any problem
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| 07:54 | <alkisg> gdi2k: are those gigabit or 100mbps?
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| 07:54 | (the NICs, not their connection to the switch...)
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| 07:54 | <gdi2k> gigabit, but running on 100 mbps switch ports
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| 07:55 | (I thin there may be 1 - 2 that are only 100 mbps
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| 07:55 | <alkisg> gdi2k: I'd strongly suggest on investing on a full gigabit switch then, many NICs have severe problems in mix-speed networks and they all go away in true gigabit
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| 07:55 | gdi2k: is that switch managed?
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| 07:56 | Maybe you could disable flow control if it is...
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| 07:56 | (because on the server, your dlink/realtek nic won't support disabling flow control)
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| 07:56 | <gdi2k> it's "Smart" so I think it may have such settings... will check. I also have a gig switch, but it's unmanaged and super cheapo nasty
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| 07:56 | ok
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| 07:56 | <alkisg> gdi2k: forget the smart one, immediately put the cheap one :)
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| 07:57 | <statick> Gracias
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| 07:57 | <gdi2k> ah, effort, effort... hehe. I'll be back...
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| 07:57 | <statick> Tranks
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| 07:57 | <alkisg> you're welcome statick
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| 08:00 | <alkisg> !kvm
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| 08:00 | <ltsp> kvm: Virtual thin client: kvm -vga vmware -ctrl-grab -kernel /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/vmlinuz -append "append ro initrd=initrd.img init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/nbd0 ip=:10.160.67.10::" -initrd /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/initrd.img -no-shutdown
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| 11:18 | <alkisg> !alkisg-todo
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| 11:18 | <ltsp> alkisg-todo: (#1) upload fixed nbd-server package in the PPA, or (#2) implement LDM_[PRE|IN|POST]SESSION_CMD, or (#3) LDM password hash, or (#4) Check ltsp bugs in debian.org, or (#5) nbd-disconnect isn't called at all because the cmdline changed, no nbdroot=
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| 11:19 | <alkisg> !forget alkisg-todo 5
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| 11:19 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 11:19 | <alkisg> !ltsp-todo
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| 11:19 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'ltsp-todo', but I do know about these similar topics: 'ltsp5-todo'
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| 11:19 | <alkisg> !ltsp5-todo
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| 11:19 | <ltsp> ltsp5-todo: "fix nbd-disconnect"
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| 11:19 | <alkisg> !forget ltsp5-todo
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| 11:19 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 19:22 | <ogden> Hey quick question hopefully since i've been looking into LTSP. If I'm running in a fatclient LTSP setup but im wanting non persistent storage so that the machines are fresh on every reboot how can I accomplish this? such that in a lab when someone mucks up the machine they just reboot it and voila its working again.
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| 19:23 | <vagrantc> kiosk mode does this
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| 19:23 | you could probably run kiosk mode with a windowmanager instead of a web browser
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| 19:24 | <ogden> so get it setup so it pushes lightdm into kiosk mode?
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| 19:25 | didnt even think of that.... thank you kindly :)
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| 19:25 | <vagrantc> no, just the window manager
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| 19:25 | although it would be easier
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| 19:25 | to just set it up to use lightdm and pam_mkhomedir
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| 19:26 | <ogden> that would require an ldap environment though right?
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| 19:27 | I'm just looking to move my lab enviroments from window/deep freeze to a linux freeware alternative
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| 19:27 | <vagrantc> you want users to have their own logins?
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| 19:27 | <ogden> windows*
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| 19:28 | <vagrantc> kiosk mode just does autologin
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| 19:28 | instead of lightdm, you might try "nodm"
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| 19:28 | that's basically a display manager that only does autologin
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| 19:29 | <ogden> no the users don't need any persistent storage and they are unknown (walk in environment) so i wont have accounts for anyone
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| 19:29 | <vagrantc> that's pretty easy, then.
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| 19:29 | <ogden> hmm ill look into that as well, thanks for the reading points :)
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| 19:30 | <vagrantc> you'll need to set DEFAULT_DISPLAY_MANAGER=/usr/bin/lightdm or DEFAULT_DISPLAY_MANAGER=/usr/bin/nodm in order to get ldm to not log in
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| 19:30 | and add a user in the chroot, and configure lightdm/nodm to autologin as that user
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| 19:31 | <ogden> but even in the chroot data will persist between boots correct?
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| 19:31 | <vagrantc> data in the chroot will persist, but data from the booted client will not... :P
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| 19:32 | so anything you do to the chroot, will persist. but when you boot a client, it doesn't hvae write access to the files- it only does writes in a ram-based filesystem.
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| 19:32 | well, doesn't have write-access to the files on the server, that is
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| 19:33 | <ogden> ahhh, that makes sense, so it looses everything since it was a ramdisk
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| 19:34 | <vagrantc> i might have missed some detail, but that should basically do it.
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| 19:34 | <ogden> you've put me into the path and thats all i was needing. thank you very much for the help!
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| 19:38 | <vagrantc> happy to help when i can! :)
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| 20:01 | <vagrantc> !ltsp5-todo
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| 20:01 | <ltsp> Error: "ltsp5-todo" is not a valid command.
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| 20:02 | <vagrantc> !vagrant-todo
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| 20:02 | <ltsp> vagrant-todo: pxemenus
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| 20:02 | <vagrantc> !alkisg-todo
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| 20:02 | <ltsp> alkisg-todo: (#1) upload fixed nbd-server package in the PPA, or (#2) implement LDM_[PRE|IN|POST]SESSION_CMD, or (#3) LDM password hash, or (#4) Check ltsp bugs in debian.org
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| 20:38 | <vagrantc> !vagrantc-todo
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| 20:38 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'vagrantc-todo', but I do know about these similar topics: 'vagrant-todo'
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| 23:12 | <alkisg> Happy new year to all :)
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| 23:20 | <vagrantc> not for me yet :)
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| 23:21 | alkisg: i was thinking of calling the next upload ltsp 5.5 (or 5.5.0 ?)
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| 23:21 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I think there were many changes, and now on it'll mostly get backported bugfixes, so I think it's a good idea (I thought of that myself too)
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| 23:22 | <vagrantc> should've done it with 5.4.6 ...
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| 23:23 | <alkisg> !alkisg-todo
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| 23:23 | <ltsp> alkisg-todo: (#1) upload fixed nbd-server package in the PPA, or (#2) implement LDM_[PRE|IN|POST]SESSION_CMD, or (#3) LDM password hash, or (#4) Check ltsp bugs in debian.org
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| 23:23 | <alkisg> !forget alkisg-todo 2
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| 23:23 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 23:24 | <alkisg> !learn alkisg-todo as implement INITRD_CMD, INIT_CMD, RC_CMD, DM_CMD, LOGIN_CMD, LOGOUT_CMD etc
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| 23:24 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 23:24 | <vagrantc> alkisg: regarding nbi images and whatnot, i'm really wishing we'd implement a plugin infrastructure
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| 23:25 | <alkisg> vagrantc: for nbi, I think we can just provide an ipxe.nbi and call it a day, but for the rest, yaboot etc I've no clue how they work
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| 23:26 | Are those similar to nbi? Whole kernel and image and kernel parameters in one tarball/
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| 23:26 | <vagrantc> alkisg: exactly ... having plugins would allow us to only implement the common use-cases, while still allowing sysadmins to implement additional plugins.
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| 23:26 | alkisg: yaboot is more like pxelinux
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| 23:26 | the file syntax is even quite similar
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| 23:27 | but the wide array of arm platforms ... eesh.
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| 23:27 | <alkisg> The plugins would be called from the update-kernels hook, right?
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| 23:27 | <vagrantc> that's what i was thinking
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| 23:28 | <alkisg> And the hook itself is distro specific...
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| 23:28 | <vagrantc> yes, it would make it easier for distros to implement their own hooks
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| 23:28 | <alkisg> OK yup it makes sense
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| 23:30 | vagrantc: is that for ltsp6?
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| 23:30 | * vagrantc is pondering a quick little rewrite just splitting the current code up into snippets | |
| 23:31 | <alkisg> So you'd keep the nbi code, even if on a snippet?
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| 23:31 | <vagrantc> might drop support officially, but it makes it easy for an end-user to add back in
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| 23:32 | <alkisg> CMDLINE_NBD=${CMDLINE_NBD:-"root=/dev/nbd0 ip=dhcp"} => why ip=dhcp? That invalidates IPAPPEND 3...
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| 23:32 | <vagrantc> it doesn't invalidate it for me...
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| 23:32 | <alkisg> (same for NFS... and, we should put a default for AOE)
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| 23:32 | ip=dhcp doesn't make the client request a lease?
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| 23:33 | <vagrantc> if you use ipappend, it should use the last ip= argument
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| 23:33 | and since it's appended...
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| 23:33 | IPAPPEND 3 will always show up last
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| 23:33 | <alkisg> ip=dhcp is the default though, so why put it there at all?
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| 23:34 | <vagrantc> and i guess initramfs-less NBD isn't possible..
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| 23:34 | for those values, i'm pretty sure i just used the defaults
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| 23:35 | <alkisg> ./client/Debian/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf:CMDLINE_NBD="root=/dev/nbd0"
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| 23:35 | ./client/share/ltsp/update-kernels:CMDLINE_NBD=${CMDLINE_NBD:-"root=/dev/nbd0 ip=dhcp"}
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| 23:36 | <vagrantc> it's been in update-kernels for over a year and a half :P
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| 23:36 | <alkisg> Haha, sorry, I've just noticed that :D
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| 23:36 | <vagrantc> and yes, both debian and ubuntu apparently don't need it
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| 23:37 | <alkisg> I don't think we need ip=dhcp anywhere at all
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| 23:37 | And I've tested not putting initrd=initrd.img, you were right, it's not needed either
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| 23:37 | * vagrantc nods | |
| 23:38 | <vagrantc> alkisg: my recent commits look ok?
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| 23:38 | * alkisg didn't see them, checking now... | |
| 23:39 | * vagrantc subjects alkisg to a new year of ltsp coding | |
| 23:40 | <alkisg> Haha, here we say that the whole year will be similar to the first day... so I'm doomed to 1 year of ltsp coding :D
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| 23:40 | `printf '%s' "$s"` => wow, I thought you hated backquotes..
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| 23:40 | <vagrantc> alkisg: oh, i do
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| 23:41 | <vagrantc> alkisg: that's just code i tested once, and felt bad about it sitting un-used all these years
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| 23:42 | <alkisg> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/2529 => line 19 there, EOF` => backquote needs to be deleted
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| 23:42 | <vagrantc> oy.
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| 23:44 | you sure?
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| 23:44 | <alkisg> Aaah sorry no I'm not sure
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| 23:44 | The code there is a little complicated imho... let's see
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| 23:44 | `printf '%s' "$s"`
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| 23:44 | Isn't that the same as:
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| 23:44 | $s
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| 23:44 | ?
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| 23:45 | <vagrantc> seems like it should be
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| 23:46 | * vagrantc wonders if the EOF is needed there too | |
| 23:47 | <vagrantc> ok, i'll really need to test this now...
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| 23:48 | <alkisg> modelines="$mode $modeline
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| 23:48 | $modelines"
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| 23:48 | ...instead of the cat/EOF combination
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| 23:51 | <vagrantc> oh boy, i got a little overambitious with committing that
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| 23:52 | <alkisg> Btw, now with xorg.conf.d, maybe we could simplify the whole xorg.conf generation code in the future?
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| 23:52 | <vagrantc> i think i didn't commit it all this time because it was a bit hard to read
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| 23:52 | alkisg: yeah... i *think* that's upstreamed?
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| 23:52 | <alkisg> No idea, I hope so
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| 23:57 | <vagrantc> xorg.conf.d has been around at least since mid-2010 in some upstream xorg projects
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| 23:58 | late 2009
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| 23:58 | <alkisg> There are also some new options in xorg.conf that we could expose as lts.conf directives... preferredmode etc
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| 23:58 | <vagrantc> seems to be when it was introduced
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| 23:58 | this is starting to sound ambitious
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| 23:59 | and i was hoping to upload ltsp 5.5 today :)
| |
| 23:59 | * alkisg was talking about ltsp 6 :) | |