IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

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Channel log from 30 May 2010 (all times are UTC)

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14:48	<alkisg> stgraber: I noticed vagrantc has some code in ltsp-init-common which puts the nbd-client processes to sendsigs.d which in turn prevents nbd-client from getting killed on shutdown. So I tested removing the upstart ltsp-poweroff/reboot jobs and running `poweroff` manually and I didn't notice any problems at all. Maybe the whole -fp thing, along with the upstart jobs, aren't really needed with sendsigs.d?
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15:19	<rhodan> If I use SquashFS over NBD as my root file system, should I change the default block size?
15:27	<johnny> why?
15:27	why would you bother?
15:27	i'm not sure what our settings are
15:27	might wanna check the code
15:29	<rhodan> johnny: Because squashfs has a default block size of 128k.
15:30	If my OS wants to read many small files, that could produce network overhead.
15:32	<johnny> rhodan, read the code to see what we set i guess
15:33	<vagrantc> rhodan: are you using fat clients?
15:34	rhodan: otherwise, it won't really matter much
15:34	<rhodan> Diskless clients.
15:34	<vagrantc> as everything happens on the server
15:34	rhodan: thin or fat?
15:34	<johnny> that's thin then
15:34	yeah.. you rarely read after booting rhodan .
15:34	<rhodan> You guys have a different nomenclature.
15:34	<vagrantc> yes
15:34	rhodan: are you using LTSP?
15:35	<rhodan> The clients have a network-mounted root.
15:35	vagrantc: No ;)
15:35	<vagrantc> aha
15:35	rhodan: are they running applications locally, or on the server?
15:35	<rhodan> Locally.
15:35	Fat-clients=local disk for me.
15:36	<vagrantc> ah, then it might matter
15:36	rhodan: yeah, i know
15:36	<rhodan> Thinclients are terminal server clients for me.
15:36	<vagrantc> or rather, i've heard that term used
15:37	<rhodan> That squashfs creation is damn fast.
15:37	<vagrantc> in the end, you just gotta describe your scenario without using ambiguous terms
15:38	<rhodan> I boot regular, performant desktop computers with PXE and let them access a read-only root file system and have writes put to a tmpfs with UnionFS.
15:39	> 752M rootfs-0.1.squash
15:39	Oh wow.
15:39	I could fit that into RAM entirely.
15:39	OTOH, it's only XFCE with OO.o and GIMP for now.
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15:55	<alkisg> rhodan: did you manually setup the tmpfs/unionfs overlay?
15:55	<rhodan> Yes.
15:56	Why?
15:56	<alkisg> What directories did you use? The whole root?
15:56	I'm just interested to see how that goes, as I tried something similar last summer which didn't really go well.
15:58	<rhodan> alkisg: http://nopaste.info/e75bfb191e.html
15:58	The kernel sources and portage DB aren't needed on the clients.
16:04	<alkisg> Thanks - but I meant the directories for the tmpfs/unionfs overlay, e.g. ltsp uses these: "/var/lib/xkb /var/log /var/spool /var/tmp /tmp /var/run /var/cache/hald"
16:05	<vagrantc> more than that
16:05	least on debian
16:06	<alkisg> Yes this isn't the full list...
16:07	<rhodan> Why not just overlay /var?
16:07	<vagrantc> because it's not simply an overlay
16:07	in all cases
16:07	<rhodan> I plan to get rid of /var/log and use syslog-ng over network.
16:07	<vagrantc> for overlays, why not just overlay /
16:08	<rhodan> vagrantc: I imagine that would fuck up /sys /dev and /proc
16:08	<vagrantc> only if it's done after they're mounted
16:08	<rhodan> OK.
16:08	So what do you mean?
16:09	Exclude /var/run from the squashfs?
16:09	<vagrantc> i.e. if you mount / first as an overlay, and later mount directories on top of it, the overlay won't interfere
16:09	<rhodan> Yes, I see your point.
16:09	<vagrantc> no need to exclude anything from the squashfs, really...
16:09	<rhodan> But why not have your intramfs use mount --move to save a few seconds?
16:09	Why not?
16:09	<vagrantc> NBD only transfers the bits that are actually used
16:10	<rhodan> I know that.
16:10	<alkisg> I wonder what problems are preventing us to use the "copy on write" mount option of nbd
16:10	<vagrantc> alkisg: i've filed a few bugs about it
16:10	<alkisg> This way no tmpfs/unionfs would be needed
16:10	<rhodan> Do you know how much time it takes to compress a portage tree?
16:10	<vagrantc> rhodan: thankfully, no :)
16:10	<alkisg> vagrantc: are they difficult to fix? any links?
16:10	<rhodan> I do. It's 10 minutes with pigz on a dual core.
16:11	Also, I can fit my squashfs into my server's RAM.
16:11	<vagrantc> alkisg: http://bugs.debian.org/470963 is the main one
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16:12	<alkisg> vagrantc: that seems easy enough
16:12	<rhodan> If I want to modify my chroot and be able to revert to an earlier state, what do I use?
16:13	ATM I'm doing it with compressed tarballs that I store away.
16:13	<alkisg> ...and also btw a negotiation phase could be added where the nbd-client asks the nbd-server for a specific image (so that many images can be exported on the same port)
16:14	vagrantc: other than that, nbd-server -c works ok? Then we could even use it now, by making a symlink from /tmp/xxx to /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img before running nbd-server?
16:15	<vagrantc> alkisg: i think it worked alright...
16:15	alkisg: you've got your classic /tmp problems with that approach, but sure.
16:15	alkisg: if you did mktemp -d and then used a subdir, you'd be alright, i guess.
16:16	<alkisg> I guess nbdrootd could do that, a seperate dir for each client based on its ip or mac address or something
16:16	<vagrantc> alkisg: at some point, it checked if the base file was writeable, but i think that got fixed.
16:17	alkisg: why not just a random one every time?
16:17	<alkisg> So that if a client crashes, it'll reuse the same dir/space...
16:18	But sure a random dir would also do.
16:18	<vagrantc> ah, the NBD reconnect issue
16:18	yeah, filesystem loosing all changes on a reconnect would be bad.
16:19	<alkisg> I wonder if also a dynamic swap file could be generated on that nbd copy-on-write root...
16:30	<vagrantc> so as not to require a separate swap file?
16:31	er, nbdswapd
16:31	<alkisg> Yup
16:31	And also to be dynamic
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17:25	<hookdr_999> any fedora 13 users
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22:24	<jammcq> hello all
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22:30	<jammcq> ogra_cmpc: ?
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