IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 20 December 2018 (all times are UTC)
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| 12:42 | <alkisg> !cheap-client
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| 12:42 | <ltsp> cheap-client: https://www.gearbest.com/tv-box-c_11262/?attr=2081-1279
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| 15:33 | <||cw> those touch screen boxes look interesting
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| 15:47 | <mwalters> alkisg: I'm planning on cloning my lab ltsp server VM when I do my updates. I'm going to need to run ltsp-update-sshkeys on each of clones once I reconfigure their IPs, correct?
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| 15:47 | <alkisg> no
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| 15:47 | <mwalters> that's not a thing anymore?
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| 15:47 | <alkisg> I fixed that around 4-5 years ago
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| 15:50 | <mwalters> can I remove it from: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Commands ?
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| 15:50 | or just note it as deprecated
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| 15:51 | <alkisg> It's not deprecated
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| 15:51 | It's just not needed when you change ip
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| 15:51 | As it's using a hostname now
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| 15:51 | The hostname is always the same, "server", so ltsp-update-sshkeys is needed only once when you build the chroot etc
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| 15:51 | And it's ran automatically
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| 15:52 | <mwalters> oh
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| 15:52 | oic
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| 15:52 | nvm
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| 18:08 | <josefig> hello guys, i'm having a issue with my ltsp server, it dropps the connection of nbd_server but I'm not sure why, the syslog is http://pasted.co/af047d38 and I don't see any problem, they are connected to a gigabit switch
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| 18:09 | http://pasted.co/d5c19ced <- full log
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| 18:11 | <vagrantc> hrm. that paste service doesn't show me any content
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| 18:12 | ah, javascript
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| 18:13 | josefig: what do you mean by drops connection? ldm has a process that by default opens a connection to the nbd server and disconnects just to check if there's a new image version
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| 18:13 | <josefig> maybe at that situation the connection drops, but there is no new image version
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| 18:14 | <vagrantc> what is the issue you're seeing?
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| 18:14 | <josefig> vagrantc, the computer hangs and the person cannot do anything and must restart the ltsp client I use fat client
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| 18:14 | should I try with thin client ?
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| 18:15 | <vagrantc> ok
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| 18:15 | i don't recommend thin clients anymore, no
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| 18:16 | what distro and version?
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| 18:16 | !ltsp-info
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| 18:16 | <ltsp> ltsp-info: please run ltsp-info and paste the output to http://ltsp.pastebin.com
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| 18:17 | <vagrantc> oh, i guess ltsp.pastebin.com is dead
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| 18:18 | ltsp: learn ltsp-info as please run ltsp-info and paste the output to https://pastebin.com and post the link here
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| 18:19 | !learn ltsp-info as please run ltsp-info and paste the output to https://pastebin.com and post the link here
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| 18:19 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 18:19 | <vagrantc> !ltsp-info
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| 18:19 | <ltsp> ltsp-info: (#1) please run ltsp-info and paste the output to http://ltsp.pastebin.com, or (#2) please run ltsp-info and paste the output to https://pastebin.com and post the link here
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| 18:19 | <vagrantc> !forget ltsp-info 1
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| 18:19 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 18:19 | <vagrantc> !ltsp-info
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| 18:19 | <ltsp> ltsp-info: please run ltsp-info and paste the output to https://pastebin.com and post the link here
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| 18:20 | <josefig> ok let me try
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| 18:20 | I use ubuntu 18.04 LTS 64
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| 18:20 | oh, maybe the image is the problem because the PC is core 2 duo the pcu
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| 18:21 | <vagrantc> how's that?
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| 18:21 | !ppa
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| 18:21 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'ppa', but I do know about these similar topics: 'sbalneav-ppa', 'greek-schools-ppa'
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| 18:21 | <vagrantc> !greek-schools-ppa
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| 18:21 | <ltsp> greek-schools-ppa: https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/ppa/ supports LTS Ubuntu releases with newer LTSP versions, bug fixes etc
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| 18:21 | <vagrantc> josefig: are you using that ^^
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| 18:22 | <josefig> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/zFM4WD7gkX/
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| 18:22 | I'm using greek-schools-ppa
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| 18:22 | <vagrantc> looks like it, yeah
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| 18:23 | <josefig> I followed this gude, everything goes well only not that freeze pc http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu
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| 18:23 | i thought maybe the issue is related with the cpu arch, I could try with a chroot images for amd64 and i386
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| 18:23 | <vagrantc> a core 2 duo should run amd64 fine
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| 18:24 | does it hang in the same place every time?
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| 18:27 | or is it a bit random?
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| 18:27 | is it a single machine, or several different machines?
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| 18:31 | <josefig> is a bit random but in couple of pcs only
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| 18:31 | not always and not in all
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| 18:32 | yes afaik the core 2 duo should run amd64
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| 18:32 | i have my own terminal and it works good enough
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| 18:32 | could be the pc ?
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| 18:32 | <vagrantc> maybe
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| 18:32 | <josefig> or even the eth cable
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| 18:32 | <vagrantc> memtest, check network cables, etc.
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| 18:33 | <josefig> yes i'll do that, i'm getting the memtest iso to review that pc
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| 18:33 | <vagrantc> swap network cables with a machine that was working fine, maybe
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| 18:33 | see if the problem follows the machine or the cable
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| 18:33 | <josefig> yes, i'll try that first
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| 18:33 | I will build a call center with LTSP wish me good luck :P
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| 18:34 | <vagrantc> glad to hear about people making use of it!
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| 18:34 | <josefig> the cheapest solution i found
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| 18:34 | and you know, you can escalate many fat clients
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| 18:34 | <vagrantc> yeah, fat clients are pretty light load on the server
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| 18:35 | <josefig> for example for 200 terminals what would be like a good specs for hardware? fat clients all
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| 18:35 | <vagrantc> and there are ways to make it even lighter, e.g. NFS for homedirs instead of sshfs
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| 18:35 | <josefig> I use homedirs using NFS and work great
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| 18:35 | <vagrantc> it really depends on the use ...
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| 18:36 | if they're using applications that write and/or read a lot to home vs. things that are CPU intensive, etc.
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| 18:36 | <alkisg> (08:09:25 μμ) josefig: http://pasted.co/d5c19ced <- full log ==> that's normal, ltsp client checks if there's a new nbd image, it shouldn't be related to the hanging error
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| 18:37 | <josefig> vagrantc, I understand
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| 18:37 | alkisg, ok so could be related to the pc or the network
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| 18:37 | <alkisg> Or graphics drivers
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| 18:37 | <josefig> ah! gotcha
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| 18:37 | <alkisg> E.g. nvidia cards hang with 3d unless you enable page flipping
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| 18:37 | <josefig> is there a way to see the log any part?
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| 18:38 | page flipping on kernel?
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| 18:38 | <alkisg> What graphics cards do those clients have?
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| 18:38 | lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA
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| 18:38 | <josefig> let me confirm
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| 18:41 | my terminal has > Intel Corporation Atom Processor Z36xxx/Z37xxx Series Graphics & Display [8086:0f31] -> Kernel Driver in use: i915
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| 18:41 | Let me confirm the other pc
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| 18:43 | <vagrantc> been a long time since i've used GPUs other than intel on x86 systems
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| 18:45 | <alkisg> Xorg no longer prefers the intel driver, they're using the "modesetting" driver instead, and it has real issues with 16 bit color depth
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| 18:45 | Other than that, intels are fine
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| 18:45 | <vagrantc> ah
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| 18:45 | fat clients don't generally do 16-bit color, though
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| 18:46 | <alkisg> Yes, no problem there
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| 18:48 | <mmarconm> Hi all
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| 18:50 | <josefig> alkisg, so, should I blacklist the i915 ?
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| 18:51 | <alkisg> no, it's probably not to blame
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| 18:51 | <mmarconm> josefig: how many pcs do intend to use with ltsp ?
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| 18:52 | * vagrantc has gone almost three weeks without using an x86 system ... but time to bump the ltsp version | |
| 18:52 | <josefig> mmarconm, on my dev team they are 7 right now but increasing to 5 more .. now the call center is intending to have 200 terminals
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| 18:52 | <vagrantc> can't hardly test that on an arm64 VM ... really.
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| 18:52 | <alkisg> (so check networking and hardware, like you already said)
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| 18:52 | <mmarconm> josefig: i am using 30 terminals fat client with ldap auth, bug good to know
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| 18:53 | its for school purpose or company ?
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| 18:53 | * alkisg has set up a call center with 100+ terminals and multiseat | |
| 18:53 | <alkisg> (over ltsp, of course)
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| 18:53 | <josefig> alkisg, the other pc uses Lenovo XEON E3-1200 V2/3rd Gen Core processor Graphics Controller Kernel driver in use: i915
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| 18:54 | nice, the call center is a very good market
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| 18:54 | <alkisg> multiseat = ltsp clients have 2 graphics cards, 2 headsets, and 2 monitors
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| 18:54 | <mmarconm> alkisg: using ssd disk for images ?
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| 18:55 | <alkisg> There's only one disk on the ltsp server
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| 18:55 | ssd, but one
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| 18:55 | <mmarconm> multiseat =( i hat then, a least here in brazil they sucks
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| 18:55 | <alkisg> It doesn't matter much for ltsp...
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| 18:55 | <josefig> alkisg, what is multiseat ?
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| 18:55 | <vagrantc> alkisg: was multiseat worth the trouble?
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| 18:55 | <josefig> mmarconm, are you located in Brazil ?
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| 18:55 | we're developing a software for call center :)
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| 18:56 | <mmarconm> josefig: basicly a harware thats allow you to use one cpu and 2, 3, 4 monitor and mouse, keyboard etc..
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| 18:56 | josefig: yes, i am from brazil
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| 18:57 | <vagrantc> i guess multiseat means that many fewer machines consuming watts and putting out heat...
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| 18:58 | <josefig> ah I see
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| 18:59 | <mmarconm> the weekend i will setup a samba + ad for auth ltsp users and win users, smb share etc... god help me
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| 18:59 | <josefig> nice
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| 19:18 | <alkisg> mmarconm: that's the bad multiseat; the good one is using upstream xorg/logind/systemd
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| 19:18 | vagrantc: multiseat is good for newly bought hardware, yeah
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| 19:18 | It runs without glitches
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| 19:19 | It's also cheaper since you only need to buy half the machines
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| 19:19 | And, the os is shared, so there's a bit of ram savings involved. Not much.
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| 19:19 | ...and a bit of network bandwidth shared
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| 19:20 | So currently, it can be implemented with just a few lines in lts.conf, so it's rather easy
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| 19:21 | <vagrantc> didn't even think of the extra hardware costs
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| 19:22 | <alkisg> xorg/systemd/logind doesn't yet support dual head graphics cards properly though; it's best if you use the onboard + a pci-e one
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| 19:22 | <vagrantc> i presume that means a few lines in lts.conf per ltsp client
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| 19:22 | <alkisg> No, just a [multiseat] section is enough
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| 19:22 | <vagrantc> wow
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| 19:22 | good work, as usual :)
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| 19:22 | <alkisg> ;)
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| 19:23 | I had to compromise with the usb ports like this: even ports => seat 1, odd ports => seat 2, and then people would have to remember them or use markers
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| 19:23 | That's much easier for the sysadmin, and it automatically gives one front port to each seat, etc
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| 19:23 | <vagrantc> so only works for a two-seat multiseat
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| 19:24 | <alkisg> Oh, one can use "modulo 3" instead in that logic
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| 19:24 | <vagrantc> presuming it has the usb ports :)
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| 19:24 | <alkisg> It's just my lts.conf that's configured for module 2
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| 19:24 | <vagrantc> right
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| 19:24 | <alkisg> Newer systems have 6-8 ports so they're usually enough
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| 19:25 | * vagrantc wonders how it works with usb hubs | |
| 19:25 | <vagrantc> e.g. keyboard with usb hub and mouse connected to the keyboard
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| 19:25 | <mwalters> alkisg: could probably use a powered up, set up closer to where the monitor/keyboard are for that seat
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| 19:25 | s/up/hub
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| 19:26 | <alkisg> Sure they can easily do that without sysadmin/programmer involvement
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| 19:26 | <mwalters> :D
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| 19:26 | <alkisg> I split the pc ports; so a hub then belongs to a seat
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| 19:26 | <vagrantc> got it
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| 19:26 | <alkisg> ...but of course it's just about one lts.conf line; that can be easily configured otherwise
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| 19:26 | <vagrantc> right
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| 21:39 | <mmarconm> Lubuntu 18.04 is a good choice for ltsp ?
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| 21:40 | <quinox> it's an excellent choice
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| 21:41 | LTS and you're good to go for the next 3 years
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| 21:41 | <mmarconm> i was thinkin maybe kde, or mate
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| 21:41 | <quinox> oh
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| 21:42 | doesn't matter
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| 21:42 | <mmarconm> but, i like lxde for ltsp
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| 21:42 | <quinox> I have awesome, KDE and Mate in my installation, it's all fine
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| 21:42 | <mmarconm> yes, i tested with kde and mate, lxqt, everything works fine
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| 21:42 | <quinox> well except KDE, they seem to have some long-standing bugs that just don't get fixed, but that's not my problem
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| 21:43 | but that's an KDE issue, not LTSP
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| 21:43 | <mmarconm> Yep, now lubuntu maybe going to use lxqt
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| 21:43 | <quinox> oh and fucking Mate screwing with my browser settings
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| 21:44 | I have a script called "99-fix-fucking-stupid-mate.sh" that I run inside my chroot to delete their bullshit
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| 21:44 | <mmarconm> i configured the users when logout to reset the home, works better on lxde
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| 21:44 | ahaha
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| 21:44 | <quinox> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mate/+bug/1605887
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| 21:45 | <mmarconm> quinox: its possible tu use like a ltsp cluster, 2 3 ltsp servers to host the same fat clients ?
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| 21:45 | if u understand what i mean
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| 21:45 | <quinox> I don't know if there is a standard way of doing that, but that should be fine
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| 21:46 | the booting happens over TFTP via DHCP, so you can change that to make it send people to different servers
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| 21:46 | <mmarconm> ahhh XD
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| 21:46 | <quinox> the LTSP image can be scp'ed between the servers no problem
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| 21:47 | you'll end up with different people's homes on different servers, which might be a bit annoying
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| 21:47 | unless you turn /home/ on those servers into some network file system mount, but I don't know if that's a good idea
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| 21:47 | <mmarconm> quinox: i configured samba + ad, i have one at local, and another the main samba ad at amazon aws
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| 21:48 | like a roamin profile
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| 21:49 | <quinox> you could also go the route of having standalone LTSP servers, orchestrated via puppet / chef / ansible / salt / whatever
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| 21:49 | you got many many many clients ?
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| 21:49 | <mmarconm> 50 clients
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| 21:50 | more 20 with windows
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| 21:51 | <quinox> I have my LTSP setup / maintenance completely automated, even though I only have 1 server
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| 21:51 | <mmarconm> quinox: where do u use ltsp, at school, like education ?
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| 21:51 | <quinox> at my work
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| 21:51 | <mmarconm> good to know
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| 21:51 | Here in brazil, almost no one know lsts or ethernet boot
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| 21:52 | <quinox> up to 10 people, 1 server is more than enough for now
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| 21:52 | <mmarconm> gigabit ethernet ?
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| 21:52 | <quinox> yup
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| 21:52 | <mmarconm> Ubuntu server ?
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| 21:52 | <quinox> yup
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| 21:53 | <mmarconm> without desktop i imagine
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| 21:53 | <quinox> I inherited the installation, I managed it for the last 8 years, I suspect it's about 10 years now that we've used it
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| 21:54 | the server is a standard 1U server, SSDs in RAID for storage, hooked up via gigabit
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| 21:54 | it doesn't run a GUI
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| 21:54 | and I only have fat clients
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| 21:54 | <mmarconm> the users account its created at server ?
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| 21:54 | <quinox> (thin clients are on their way out in general, it's not advisable to use them)
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| 21:54 | LDAP
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| 21:54 | <mmarconm> ahhhh openlad ?
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| 21:54 | <quinox> eeeuh yeah probably
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| 21:55 | <mmarconm> ahhahah, me too but with samba + ad, coz i have windows 10 too
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| 21:55 | each group with your folder bla bla bla
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| 21:56 | i setup ltsp with docker too, works like a charm
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| 21:56 | <quinox> nice
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| 21:56 | I use VirtualBox from time to time, works great
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| 21:57 | for testing newer versions without disrupting my real server
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| 21:57 | I set up a VM as server, boot another VM as clients to test it; when that works I reconfigure my DHCP to send some real clients to my VM server
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| 21:58 | <mmarconm> i wanna make a docker-compose to up all setup for ltsp server, just download and start and done
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| 21:58 | everything configured
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| 21:58 | yes, i am doing this right now with virtulbox
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| 22:02 | <||cw> I just only run VMs
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| 22:03 | kvm is pretty solid, add virt-manager from a desktop and it's super easy to manage too
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| 22:04 | <quinox> I have a few services running in Docker, I find it a pain in the ass
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| 22:04 | (unrelated to LTSP, just for your info)
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| 22:07 | <||cw> I have a couple docker things in VMs, and I agree. docker seems great for "hands off" things that you manage via apis and web tools, and a pain for things you need to get in a tweak
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| 22:07 | <mmarconm> i am build a docker manager for ltsp using python + django
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| 22:08 | <||cw> that sounds handy
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| 22:08 | tho I think docker seems a bit odd for ltsp since it's designed to basically clone the OS, it's not just an application/service
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| 22:09 | <mmarconm> be back later, storm comming
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| 22:27 | <josefig> I found the problem of the pcs' hangs
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| 22:28 | :)
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| 22:28 | coming from the chrootless image, i found with chroot image and worked awesome with mate
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| 22:29 | because it had couple of servers on the server as I use it for development, mea culpa
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| 22:34 | <vagrantc> what was the issue?
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| 22:44 | <||cw> josefig: if it's just extra services starting on the clients, there's an exclude option when you build the client
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| 22:45 | <josefig> hello ||cw can you please help me with an example of that? sorry for too many questions, I'm newbie maybe a reference could be good.
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| 22:45 | <||cw> !install
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| 22:45 | <ltsp> install: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu for Ubuntu, or http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation for other distributions
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| 22:47 | <||cw> not at my server so i can't check
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| 22:49 | maybe not he best way, but add the service script file names to /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.excludes ?
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| 22:50 | I thought there was an easier way, online man pages aren't revealing that
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| 22:50 | vagrantc: isn't there a command to exclude service by name?
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| 22:50 | not just files?
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| 22:55 | <vagrantc> RM_SYSTEM_SERVICES
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| 22:56 | in lts.conf
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| 22:56 | <josefig> ah I see
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| 23:51 | <mmarconm> and, i am back :)
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